>>64990460 He's literally what Anakin should have been. JJ succeeded created an Anakin type character in ONE movie, where George Lucas failed in fucking THREE.
I can't wait to see where Kylo goes from here. Not only did JJ make a better EP4, but I think he's going to make a better pt just to further shit on GL. It's literally like, "Oh George, was THIS what you were trying to convey with Anakin? Well let me go ahead and help you with that."
>>64992326 I fucking LOVE how the saber fights are a mix of the best parts of both previous trilogies. It has the emotion and "european sword" fighting style of the OT, but with the excellent, fast pace of the pt.
I know everyone says JJ just copied ep4's style, but I can see the good parts of the pt in tfa, and I say that as someone who hates the pt. JJ managed to strike a good balance of what a modern starwars film should look like.
Look, we're both conjecturing until we see the next two movies, but I feel like, you didn't even read my post.
>Also, after having seen the movie twice, it's pretty obvious now that she's ****had prior force training****, and her ****powers/memories are unlocking by the minute****.
To add some additional evidence to this, Kylo flat out tells a storm trooper (another female one besides Phasma, interestingly enough, but not relevant to my post) that the more time Rey is free and running about, the more powerful she's going to get. He might have actually known her at some point, and knows her memories are coming back.
>I wouldn't be surprised if, by the time she reached Luke, she has remembered everything.
Again, conjecture on my part, but after having seen the movie twice, it makes absolute sense that she's been memory wiped Revan style, for her own protection, and Kylo fucking with her head pretty much broke the dam.
>>64998551 He also reacts weirdly when he's told there's a girl with the droid. >What girl? I think that's it. Which is a bit of an odd question. Could be any girl. Unless you know there's a specific girl on that planet.
>>64999730 Strictly going off what we see in this movie, I can make some logical guesses.
>She's actually shaken up that Finn managed to shake indoctrination, which has created doubt, and more importantly, fear, in her mind >She got jumped by a fucking wookie. >Is generally concerned for her life, and believes she'll die if she doesn't lower the shields.
I mean, I'm not really understanding this "she gave up easily" meme you fucks keep spouting. The way you make it sound, it's like someone walked up to her, and asked her politely to shut down the shields, and she decided to just say fuck it, and do it.
The question you SHOULD be asking, if you were actually intelligent, is why a fucking captain would have the codes to shut down the shields.
Or better yet, why not questions why the original death star had NO CODES to bring down the shields. Obiwan just walked up and pulled some fucking LEVERS (as in, didn't have to manipulate a fucking computer) and boom, shields down.
Why don't you question and answer THAT, then come back back and question why a captain (who shouldn't have the codes in the first place) lowered the shields after having been threatened by an out of control, unstable traitor, and a giant fucking wookie, who for all she knows, will tear her arms off and beat her to death with them at the drop of a hat.
Why did they have to make Kylo Ren 30? It makes him seem super immature. I think it'd be better if he was around 25 or even 20, the same age as Rey. You have to keep in mind that Kylo is now older than Anakin when he turned into Darth Vader. But why?
>>65000233 It wasn't NOT there either, and it was hinted at. There are fucking clues you retard. The flashbacks of kylo's crew, Rey being dumped off for her safety, her seemingly remembering how to use the force when fighting Kylo, her reverse mind penetration of Kylo, etc etc.
She's had former training, and as indicated here: >>64999423
Mind tricks are likely the FIRST thing kids learn, since they're small and relatively physically defenseless.
It doesn't matter. Once all of this is confirmed in the next film you'll be btfo then find something else shallow to bitch about. stay irrelevant.
>>65000369 >we're told the first order is die hard
Kylo LITERALLY questions how die hard they actually are after Finn defects, and even comments about using clones again. This literally tells you all you need to know that the indoctrination program is fucking flawed
>can you not see how that is poorly written?
Can you not see that you're actually fucking stupid and couldn't even understand a kids movie?
You also didn't even comment on my entire post. You cherry picked the part where I critiqued your meme, not my actual points.
>>65000370 >Telepathy, telekinesis before jakku Yes >Saber skills >Wild angry thrashing Um, no. >Piloting She learned that on jakku. Same shit with Anakin and Luke flying pod racers and T14s, then piloting space ships with no training. She flew a hover craft, just like they did, then upgraded to ship flying with no training, just like they did.
You do realize the kind of message this sends, right? If one guy has doubts, and can disobey, you bet your fucking ass the commanders are now wondering how many other troopers are fucking waiting to do the same as Finn.
Remember, Finn is just the FIRST guy to actually defect. We have ZERO idea how many other guys, before or after him, are on their way towards doing the same.
Oh yeah, and Phasma commented that, FINN had no prior issues with obedience, when her commander asked, and there is a RECONDITIONING CENTER RECONDITIONING CENTER RECONDITIONING CENTER
Which implies this shit happens all the time to troopers. Finn might just be the first guy to actually fuck off.
>>65000906 I never questioned Anakin being a good pilot, because as per the OT, he was supposed to have been a good one by the time Obiwan met him.
>google some random shit to deflect away from how stupid I am and how right you are and how I have literally no fucking argument because the previous two trilogies did the exact same shit that is suddenly a problem now because the mc is a female
>>65001143 I rekt YOUR shit, and you've yet to come up with a valid retort other than name calling or requests to google shit that have nothing to do with anything.
I gave you MULTIPLE valid reasons as to why she gave up the codes, I gave you valid points as to why the indoctrination is flawed to begin with, and then I asked you why you didn't question Obiwan pulling levers to lower a shield, but now it's suddenly a problem that a captain how might be legit scared of a wookie tearing her to pieces would give up the codes.
Nothing you've stated has any weight or merit being, waahhhh I don't like this movie, this one in particular is shitty while I forgive all the similar or worse nonsense from the previous trilogies.
>>64998002 I agree. No needless jumps and the twirls made sense from a centrifugal sense during combat. Kylo was fully extended his strokes since he's utilizing his lightsaber like a one-handed longsword.
I wonder if anyone focused on rapier-style fencing in Star Wars? Stabs and precise cuts instead of two-handed cleaving?
>>65001373 Oh so now we're moving the fucking goalpost by bring up other shit? You explictly brought up piloting, to which I succesfully refuted your horseshit, so now you're going to bitch because Rey, who raised herself mind you, is not a pussy bitch like Luke, who was raised by an aunt and uncle who explicitly limited his activities out of fear of him being "too much like his father".
Fuck off retard. I'm not even going to address the rest of your post. It has already been explained or refuted in this very thread.
Even if that were true (it isn't) trying to downplay the ferocity of a wookie with "muh" just shows how indoctrinated YOU are in 4chan memes that you can't even appreciate on any human level how a person might actually be afraid enough of a giant alien to fucking surrender.
You have already made up your mind to shut down all logic and reason. There's no arguing with a hate drone like yourself. You've given me NOTHING credible to even consider your stance, and you know damn well I tried.
>>65001667 she raised herself on JAKKU you dumb cunt. Why are you even posting if you have no reading skills at all? >>65001611 >accuses me of being lazy >spouts mary sue memes because he has no argument >also obviously didn't ready my retort to the force and saber skills post
Yeah nah, I've written books in this thread already. YOU'RE memeing faggot ass is the lazy one.
>>65001813 I refuted your stupid fucking points about the indoctrination! It is flawed! I gave you actual IN MOVIE QUOTES of characters EXPLICITLY admitting it is FLAWED.
Phasma was NEVER portrayed as die-hard, she has like 5 speaking lines?
Your "perfectly valid criticism" has been picked apart and refuted. Why do YOU have a problem with my perfectly valid retorts? Oh that's right, you'd rather meme it up before admitting you're flat out fucking wrong.
"Feelings Americans in this type of movie copy trafficking obediently sent silver, pink and cult critics have to kneel lick, but it is definitely regress film history!
"Story actually weak, but then there are the visual effects innovation, but now it was not any advantage. Also allows new direct point lead full battle skills most waste in two villain, playing not brilliant lightsaber duel."
"North American critic high marks is blind? Drama overall copy the "new hope", the fast pace of noise."
"No new ideas, for PC, every Hollywood movie should add a black, spit"
"Actor ugly, noisy music, drama confusion, looking bored and uncomfortable. This is the highly anticipated 2015 blockbuster? "
"Distressed. Even so it does not look good. Disney Katherine seeking JJ let Luke ... do not ask him a whole ..."
"To build the world's no breakthrough, no exploration in the form of innovation. Story over and over again, consistent pattern, visual effects merely mediocre, performance can be called negative. We can only rely on its feelings and sell to lure people. Star Wars, can be laid to rest. 40 years ago you ahead of the times, and now the times had you thrown soberly. Galaxy sails dance, have to pay jokes."
"JJ beat only suitable for viewers under the age of twelve, had to be crossing over from the eighties kind. No revolutionary visual effects and innovative, you have to present at the surface more than the next point effort ah, now nor military nor the text, in addition to feelings of the party who would buy it?"
>>65002783 Doesn't "the force awakens" as a title make no sense, since Kylo Ren is already using the force, and everyone knows about it?
Shouldn't it be called something else? Like, if they were trying to make her the focus, and not the force itself, shouldn't they have named it something more along the lines of, "Return of the Jedi", oh, wait, they already did that movie, nevermind.
>>65002053 alright, why don't we do this, since you're never going to admit you're wrong. we'll do a simple summary of our conversation, and I'll just answer the question you asked.
Why did Phasma lower the shields?
I asked you to look at all of the clues the movie drops, since you accused it of being poorly written, yet missed all evidence to the contrary
>Finn flat out defects >Hux asks if Finn has ever shown signs of noncompliance before, implying troopers have in the past >This his backed up by Phasma stating he was ordered to the RECONDITIONING CENTER, which further implies troopers have shown noncompliance in the past >Kylo flat out questions the quality of troops indoctrination provides, and quips about going back to using clone troopers, who as we all know, have straight up programming >Random commander is *afraid* of giving Kylo bad news (regarding the escape of Rey and the Droid from Jakku) >Two stormtroopers turn around and walk the other way when Kylo is throwing his second tantrum, showing once again that indoctrinated imperial officers and troopers alike, are flat out afraid of dying, which is basic human nature
So from the above clues, we can assertain two things.
>indoctrination is flawed >indoctrinated personnel are still very much afraid of dying
Also, since Phasma doesn't do or say much of anything, we don't know how she gained her command, or what she's like personality wise, so given that we don't know much about her, indoctrination is flawed as explained in movie by in movie characters, and personnel fear for their lives, let's answer "why did she lower the shields".
The answer is...
She didn't want to fucking die.
Now you can take all that an argue all you want, and you're certainly entitled to complain, but the one thing I won't let you get away with is, blah blah poorly written. That's horseshit. The movie gives you enough clues to come to a conclusion about Phasma lowering the shields. That's it.
>>65003219 WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT HISTORY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A FUCKING MOVIE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A SPECIFIC FICTIONAL ARMY IN A SPECIFIC FUCKING MOVIE STOP BRINGING UP HISTORY YOU PSEUDO INTELLECTUAL CUNT IT HAS ZERO BEARING ON THE CONVERSATION.
>>65003289 You know what? I'm trying this new thing where I end the arguments of you dumb cunts right at the source.
You asked: >why didn't kylo force freeze her?
My answer? Why didn't Obiwan ever use superspeed ever again in starwars? Remember when quigon and obiwan used flash levels of superspeed to escape the droidekkars in ep1, but no one ever uses those powers again ever in any other starwars movie?
Answer that, and I'll answer why Kylo didn't force freeze her. I want you cunts to acknowledge and answer the flaws of previous films before anyone answers your stupid fucking questions about the new ones.
Oh yeah, and NO ONE here has gotten back to me on why Obiwan could just pull some fucking levers to lower the shields of the original deathstar, but can't accept that a captured guard who's afraid for her life, would lower the shields. Nothing on this point yet.
Oh yeah, nothing about Anakin and Luke being starship pilots with no training either. But it's magically an issue if Rey does it.
>>65003520 >My answer? Why didn't Obiwan ever use superspeed ever again in starwars? Remember when quigon and obiwan used flash levels of superspeed to escape the droidekkars in ep1, but no one ever uses those powers again ever in any other starwars movie? wow, you just proved the prequels are stupid, what a revelation
>>65003610 Finally, some admission that the other starwars movies have just as much bullshit, and yet, aren't as over analyzed as tfa.
>>65003660 Yeah, it'll be my new tactic for TFA arguments. Anytime someone brings up a critique against TFA, I'll bring up a similar one from the past movies.
Because let's face it, this is 4chan. No one ever concedes defeat. They will argue in circles, so instead of putting thought into my retorts and wasting time on someone who is already determined to hate something and never accept answers given, I'll just redirect them to past sw movies.
I hope we get more backstory on Sydows character. He clearly knew Kylo when he was Ben. Maybe he was allied with Luke in some way training Jedi or something? Whatever it is, his 5 minute scene was a waste of Sydows talents. I hope we get more.
Practical effects and sets will give it longer shelf life. No retarded goofy aliens No annoying bad actor kid Tonally consistent, and appealing to one demographic like ep4 and 5 did, not trying to appeal to kids AND adults. Clear, coherent plot Better, more natural writting/dialogue Emotional, and better lightsaber fights Sabers feel special, and dangerous again Better characters Better, more dynamic directing, not that sit in my chair and film the characters from one angle walking back and forth shit the pt had.
Now to be fair, to both the pt, and tfa, I'm just comparing tfa to ep1. But structurally, narrative, directionaly, and just flat out from an entertainment aspect, it's better than every pt movie.
>>65004344 I agree. TFA on a technical level is superior to all the prequels. That doesn't mean you have to enjoy one over the other. I understand V is a great piece of film making but I enjoy VI the most.
I will enjoy any butthurt this post causes, though.
>>65004258 JJ described his rank akin to Vader's. Nothing official but he is in command when Snoke wills it. I guess Vader was a Darth and Kylo is a Ren. It's poetry. Honestly, it's a good way of delegating authority. That way you don't have your super powerful dark side user making shitty decisions all the time.
>>65004344 >No retarded goofy aliens Did you miss the scene with the little orange woman? >Clear, coherent plot Nobody in any theatre knew who the fuck the "resistance" were in relation to the "republic", the entire plot was a clusterfuck with recycled shit (get the droid with the plans/map, blow up the death star)
Trying to make the Republic still the underdogs with the Empire as the superpower still was so poorly done it hurt >Emotional, and better lightsaber fights Two noobs beating a trained dark-side guy is a shit fight
>>65004423 To lend some weight to my defense of tfa, I feel like I should offer my own critiques. I'm not some blind droid in total love with it.
Hated deathstar three Didn't like the flashbacks or visions. SW movies are typically self contained, but then, ep5 had "there is another" which wasn't answered until later, but still a shitty way to tell a story Didn't like that Phasma didn't do jack shit Hux was a bit over the top Hate that snoke is a cgi character. Should have been andy serkis in a costume. The ONLY way, and I mean ONLY way, cgi snoke will pay off, is if he's small like yoda. That would be great pottery. Maz is complete shit, fuck her Luke's saber being recovered makes zero fucking sense. It fell off of cloud city, which is on a gas giant. It would not be recoverable unless it fell on some ship beneath the clouds, which is possible, but dumb. Rey's past should have been explained in the first film, which would have done away with a lot of critique I think. Her past being a mystery is annoying as fuck, and I fear she will discover it offscreen via DLC, like how a lot of the pt story was handled.
>>65004887 I think that anon is talking about Jar Jar having fart jokes.
The anon I was replying to, that may or may not be you, was talking about lovecraft monsters affecting tonal consistency. I thought that was weird because ANH and RotJ both have tentacle monsters and the Sarlaac especially is pretty 'Lovecraftian' in how you slowly you're digested.
>>65004989 My guess is coruscant has always been a corrupt shit hole, so the new republic wanted to distance itself from it.
Honestly, I fucking hated new deathstar, so I won't even defend that aspect of the film, or anything to do with it.
On a side note, they DO mention the system that got nuked, but I couldn't remember the name to save my life. All I know is, they state in the film that it was "not coruscant" that was nuked, not actual coruscant.
>>65005057 I saw the movie twice and never noticed a particularly big ass on a pig lizard alien. In any case, it was focused on, and there were no fart/shit gags/jokes related to it.
Jar Jar steps in shit, AND has a weirdly sexy alien fart in his face. That shit is literally kindergarten tier humor. But then, at the end of the film, a guy get's cut in fucking half. That's what I'm talking about regarding tone. TFA has no such issues.
>>65003146 He was on a Deathstar that was exploding and needed to get Rey to Snoke (Alive (so Snoke could interrogate her), that's why he didn't kill her/went easy on her) and obviously wanted the lightsaber beloning to Luke.
If he actually succeeded at that both Rey and Finn would be knocked out on a planet wich is about to explode.
>>64999730 She wanted to live and literally told Finn and Han that bringing down the shields would do nothing. She probably thought they would try to escape with Rey (wich means they both had to get through Kylo too) and try to get out again. She probably had no idea the rebels would show up.
>>65005903 Yeah I agree. While I appreciate the fast pace of the movie, some story shit needed to ironed out more. What is the resistence exactly, what state is the republic in exactly, why should we care, shit like that.
I mean I can infer alot, but that doesn't do anything for me emotionally. I knew they were blowing up the republic planets because hux said so in the speech, but I just didn't care.
>>65006131 Yeah but who says Coruscant is part of the New Republic? I think you see the New Republic as just a changing of hands of the Republic we saw in the PT to the Rebels. The new Republic is a new government that still had to fight the Empire after RotJ.
>>65006595 What are you trying to meme? There is no in-universe explanation, it's just bullshit. Both of them should have been killed by what happened to them, the writers are just morons. The question was basically rhetorical.
>>65004344 I disagree on the directing, the movie's pacing was just fucked up. I was already lost halfway through, trying to remember what planet they were even on because JJ sucks at establishing shots and they were in a new area every ten minutes.
>>65006537 It's bullshit because it's unsatisfying to have the hero beat the villain in the first act of your story, regardless of how handicapped you make him. Luke got blown the fuck out at every turn. And when it came time to fuck up the big boss Sheev, he got fucked up some more.
He constantly needed help from his friends too. Obi had to sacrifice himself and the droids and Han help them escape. Leia and Lando needed to rescue him as well. And finally, old daddy-o had to rescue him too.
Sure, Chewie fired the gun but that wasn't to rescue her. I think that Disney was so scared of having a female character rescued after the whole black widow fiasco that they had to have her do it alone. How much more satisfying would it have been if she was running from him back to the falcon to escape and chewie blasted him with the falcon's gunner? The movie would have been identical and felt way more satisfying. Star wars has always been about friendship. It was never the Luke show.
>>65003114 >indoctrination is flawed as explained in movie by in movie characters, and personnel fear for their lives >and indoctrinated personnel fear giving up their lives for their cause top kek Open a history book, man.
>>65006926 It was stolen and restolen multiple times, and the beacon might have activate when the ship did? Hard to say.
Also, some conjecture here. But kanjiclub guy SPECIFICALLY mentioned the first order put out a hit for rey, finn, and the droid, and get this.....I BET THEY RELEASED A DESCRIPTION OF THE SHIP, which made han go in the general direction of the ships location, close enoigh for the beacon to kick in.
>>65007137 We're not talking about Anakin are we, we're talking about an injured, emotionally torn Kylo Ren. Why is it so hard for you to believe he got beaten? Especially when he wasn't trying to kill her for the majority of the fight
>We dont KNOW how much training Rey had >We don't KNOW how much they modified the Falcon >We dont KNOW how much training Flynn had in hand-to-hand >We dont KNOW that Phasma didn't KNOW that the Reb---Resistance were coming >We dont KNOW how much training Kylo has had >We dont KNOW where the fuck any planet is in relation to any other >so stop criticizing the film please
>>65007350 >we don't know how much they modified the Falcon You're right, we don't but we do know that the Falcon has been modified. >we don't know how much training Finn had in hand to hand But we know that he has had training in hand to hand combat. >We don't know that Phasma didn't know the Resistance were coming lol wtf yes we do, at what point in the movie does it show The First Order knew the Resistance was coming to Starkiller Base? >We don't know how much training Kylo had We know he has been trained and is relatively competent >We don't know where the fuck any planet is in relation to any other Why is this relevant? What happens in your mind when you post this kind of bullshit, none of it makes any sense.
>>65007775 m8 it's space fantasy, literally none of it is set in a hard sci fi setting. Otherwise why don't they strap a hyperdrive on an asteroid and shoot it into planets at lightspeed? You sound like Neil Degrasse Tyson trying to critique a movie.
>>65008091 We're not talking about Game of Thrones, literally all that would happen if the film makers decided to account for the time it'd take to see the light from Stakiller Base's sun shots would be a couple of fat virgins nodding and patting themselves on the back saying "just like the stars bro, u kno they're already ded cos of the time it takes light to get here hurr". There is so reason to account for it because it literally doesn't matter
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