She kind of is, since she's perfect and talented at everything and thrust upon this extravagant journey that the writer wishes he were on.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter because she's not really the protagonist. Finn is. Rey is kind of like a human mcguffin. Finn needs to get her from point A to point B so that she can find Luke's lightsaber and become the great Jedi that she was meant to be.
>>64910894 What happened with Rey was the writers wanted to make her a strong female character because "lack of diversity and feminism" except they went overboard and made her too strong, hence becoming a Mary Sue.
She could've been a cool strong female character, had they toned her exceptional skills down and made her have some flaws, y'know, like most strong male and female characters.
>>64910894 >needs no training to handle a light saber >grasps the force better than any other character first introduced to it >apparently flies the millennium falcon better than Han >I DONT NEED NO MAN
>>64910894 She's a Mary Sue the same way Harry Potter and Spider-man are Mary Sues. It doesn't really bother me at all; the way Luke saved the day after learning what the Force was like 4 days before using it to blow up the Death Star is the same deal.
>>64911214 He was just able to hit a tiny target while moving at super sonic speeds without the aid of targeting computers by using the force. No biggie. Way less Mary Sue than beating an injured guy in a fight.
>>64911260 Or piloting the Millennium falcon better than Han, or being able to use the Jedi mind trick after three attempts, or somehow being able to use a light saber without training, which took Luke a long time, sure
>>64911236 Doesn't matter, it was purposeful written that way by writers who had an agenda or were forced to by people who had an agenda
>>64911192 >>64911077 >>64911065 AAYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO AYYYOOO *smacks lips profusely* SO HOL UP HOL UP *steals* SO U BE SAYIN *gets jiggy wit it* SO HOL UP U BE SAYIN *eats a skittle* AAAYYYOOO SO U BE SAYIN *checks for nearest KFC* U BE SAYIN *collects welfare* HOL UP HOL UP *licks teeth and smacks lips* AYYYOO U BE SAYIN *does the crip walk* SO U BE SAYIN *opens a up a 40 and pours some for his homies trayvon and michael brown* HOL UP SO U BE SAYIN *tweets about dis and goes to check in with his parole officer* WE GON BE *dindu nuffins* FINNA WE GON BE *sucks air through teeth* AYYYOO HOL UP WE GON BE *pulls up sagging pants* SO WE GON BE *instinctively looks around for police* SO U SAYIN WE GON BE *faints and then gets up repeatedly* SOM FINNA *scopes dem titties* SO WE GON BE *shouts at movie theater screen* SOM FINNA *chucks spear* AYYYOO SOM FINA *sets down cotton bale* HOL UP *strokes welfare check pensively* WE GON BE *throws gang sign* SOM FINNA *swings from basketball hoop* WE GON BE *grabs dick and shuffles left and right* SOM FINNA *participates in a drive-by shooting* HOL UP MUH NIGGUH *converts to Islam* U SAYING WE GON BE *repeated World Star yelling in the background* SOM FINNA *sells crack* DIS DICK AINT FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE *sets on fire in the shower WE WUZ KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINGZ *evolves from primate*
>>64911172 >needs no training to handle a light saber Neither did Han. She did know how to handle her staff, but it also translated clumsily because you can see that most of her fighting is in retreat (compare to Finn, who likely had melee training as a stormtrooper and seems pretty capable with the lightsaber, though perhaps not as elegant as he would be if he was a Jedi). >grasps the force better than any other character first introduced to it Seems pretty regular for any other Force sensitive, honestly. The only reason why Luke couldn't pick up that damn X-Wing was because he thought it was impossible. He got in his own way. But she's a believer. >apparently flies the millennium falcon better than Han I'm sorry, who's the one who got through the Starkiller's shield by passing through it at lightspeed, coming out just soon enough not to smash into the fucking planet? Yeah. That's right. Han fucking Solo. She could barely get it to fly straight at first, and then the best she did was fly into a busted up Stardestroyer. Something both Han and Lando could do. The only thing she could do with the Falcon was know her way around the modifications made since he owned it. >I DONT NEED NO MAN She was abandoned on a goddamn scavenger planet, she didn't think she needed anyone. Notice she changes tone once she thinks Finn's going to leave her behind, though.
So fuck you and your bitchy rhetoric. >>64911214 Luke was a bumpkin who didn't even know about the Force until Obi-Wan had to explain it to him.
All relevant jedi's could be considered mary sues. You can just say everything they do is thanks to the force. They are both psychic and use telekinesis which gives them an edge in absolutely everything.
>>64911338 He never even attempts that stuff in the first film, which doesn't mean he doesn't have the power. I was listening to the Red Letter Media commentary on Return of the Jedi and Mike made a point that the "training" aspect of the force was always intended to be a spiritual guidance more than a literal training. It isn't years of standing in front of a laser ball training with a lightsaber that helped Luke defeat Vader, it was Luke learning that Vader was his father and learning to tap into his own ability. TFA uses this conception of the force, not the prequel one.
>>64911397 Daily reminder if Luke was like Rey in A New Hope.
*Luke is an expert survivalist living on his own in Tatooine. He isn't subservient to Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru. He loyally waits for a lost companion to return.
*Luke steals R2-D2 from a Tusken Raider on a Bantha who has captured R2-D2. The Tusken just watches and rides away.
*Luke can understand everything R2-D2 says. C-3PO is written out since he's not needed to translate.
*R2-D2 follows Luke around obediently instead of running away and generally just thinks Luke's awesome.
*Luke meets Obi-Wan and tells him he's just a nobody and didn't even know the Force was real. Obi-Wan hands Luke his father's saber and then disappears from the movie. No training required.
*Luke experiences a "vision" upon touching the saber for unexplained reasons. Magic lightsaber?
*Luke enters the Cantina and knocks down Ponda Baba and Dr. Evazan with a stick when they threaten him.
*Luke finds the Falcon with only Chewie inside as TIE Fighters start bombing the area. He jumps in and flies it with some wild maneuvers through Beggar's Canyon while Chewie works the gun port. They destroy the TIEs and return to get Han.
>>64910894 I think that now her being a Mary Sue isn't really about her being a Mary Sue or not, it's about how people use that to talk about TFA or the new sequel trilogy in general.
If someone is saying she's a Mary Sue and it was either a flaw in a good movie or one of the straws that just added up to a disappointing movie, fine.
If someone says she's a Mary Sue and therefore TFA is ruined just for that or it means the next two movies have no where to go because she's all powerful then I'm gonna contest that.
Then there are people that call Fury Road feminist propaganda and say Mary Sue Rey has ruined what Star Wars was always about, the hero's (not heroine's) journey, with her bullshit liberal agenda. They'll start talking about the jews and how terrible Boyega is in the movie. It's best to ignore those people.
>>64911581 *Chewie is injured while running from Stormtroopers to get to the Falcon and Luke takes over as co-pilot.
*Luke fixes the Falcon's malfunctions by himself before Han can figure out what to do.
*Han is so impressed with Luke that by the time they get to the remains of Alderaan, he offers Luke a permanent job.
*They sneak into the back door of the Death Star unnoticed and somehow instantly find Leia's cell.
*Luke uses the Jedi Mind Trick on the guards at Leia's cell to get inside. (First time the Jedi Mind Trick appears in the movie.)
*Leia says Luke is amazing, thanks him and won't stop talking about wanting to run away with him and devote herself to helping him. Luke is not interested and says he just wants to be friends.
*Han somehow instantly finds the head Stormtrooper Commander and says he'll kill him if he doesn't shut down the tractor beam. The Stormtrooper Commander complies and they throw him in the trash compactor.
*Darth Vader finds the heroes. Luke watches as Han Solo confronts Darth Vader and is killed.
*Luke attacks Darth Vader and holds his own. He drops his saber but he is able to Force grab it before Vader can. (First time Force grab is seen in the movie.) Vader offers to train Luke. Luke lands several blows on Vader and cuts off his hand while remaining unscathed and Vader collapses in a heap. But there is an explosion that ruptures the platform between them and Luke must join Leia, Chewie and R2 back on the Falcon.
*Meanwhile, Wedge leads a small squad to do a bombing run on the Death Star. He easily hits the target without facing much resistance or even thinking about it much and the Death Star blows up.
*Luke officially joins the Rebellion at the end of the movie and is instantly selected to pilot a ship on a vital mission they've been waiting years to do. Their best pilot who just blew up the Death Star, Wedge, is passed over.
>>64911233 >rey can't even back up properly >relies on finn to shoot both tie fighters >her overconfidence releases rathtars >is a bitch to han but doesn't even know about safeties or barrel discipline >mostly succeeds because of kylo's failure >only wins the lightsaber duel at the end because she stops trying to be in control and surrenders to a higher authority >friend zones the negro I really thought /pol/ was gonna love this character.
>>64911581 Daily reminder that everyone hated ANH Luke because he was a whiny bitch. It's really only after TFA, and really only on here that anyone is praising ANH Luke. Go ask your parents about it, people liked Luke but he outright annoying for the first half of the movie.
1) JJ and the other writers creating her character with the intent that her arc would play out over three films, not one. So you get abilities that can't be explained in the context of one film, i.e. her force sensitivity.
2) We hardly see Rey struggle in TFA because she's always in her element. Sure she comes up against adversity but she's never really challenged; everything plays into her previous skillset, so she appears to be a God at everything.
So in the end I can see why people would label her a Mary Sue, but I'm withholding judgement until Ep 8 drops next year.
>>64912222 Hey mate guess what, to create a functioning movie, especially the first in a trilogy, the things in it need to make sense without a shit load of outside information from other sources. Stop making excuses for JJ being a hack kike
My friend thinks she won the duel against Ren because Kylo was out of practice, having never had a proper opponent since he rebelled. I explained to her how this makes no sense because Rey had literally never practiced with, never even held, a lightsaber before. She then said something about Rey being "attuned to the force", whatever that means.
I'm sorry that I don't buy bogongos character moaning about bloodshed, who then proceeds to gleefully murder his first dozen humans in the tie fighter escape scene, humans who he had grown up around for decades and surely heavily empathised with considering he was in their position minutes before. Oh wait no he's cheering. Good writing huh?
>>64912574 Then maybe they should have made their former stormtrooper character have even an ounce of his personality or actions make sense. But that just all relates back to me being right about the writing sucking massive cock
>>64911338 >or somehow being able to use a light saber without training To be fair, she looked like she was retreating or running away in the fight. And the emo dude was injured. I wouldn't call her light saber skills amazing.
I didn't like how everything was too convenient (she knows what buttons to push and shit like that). She's more of a mcguffin I guess.
>>64913514 She knows how to fight with a staff, learning swordfighring from therw is not rocket science. And for what we know Kylo Ren never fought a ligĥtsaber wielding opponent in a 1 on 1 duel, this probably was jis first serious fight. Kylo also probed her mind, she applied that experience in reverse, it's not really inexplicable too.
I don't consider her a mary sue, since I always thought that meant being a self-insert for the author as opposed to a character which was simply too perfect (which are completely separate things). However, she's much to good at everything to be interesting at all, to the point where her continual success at things actually deprives her of opportunities to be characterized. That was hardly a problem specific to her character, though; none of the characters were developed very well
>>64913650 >>64913699 He had his knights with him, and aince he had to build his junksaber the way it is, his and other students' education never got to lightsabers. Forgot to add, Ren was also injired and exhausted.
>>64913742 -> >>64913776 >>64913765 Ren was easily the best part of the movie. That's the whole point, that he is Vader wannabe, not Vader expy. You were expecting Vader 2.0 and that why you don't like him.
>>64914051 You're right, he's probably not the final villain, but the reason why you perceive Ren as pathetic and terrible is because of JJ, he already said in interviews that he based Ren's character design off of keyboard Warriors and trolls/contrarian neckbeards, not even joking that's what he used as his inspiration for Kylo Ren
2- Obvious emotional problems, wouldnt even let Finn hold her hand to pull her away from danger and savin her life.
3- She was overconfident in her mechanical skills, she fucked up and let out those tenticle monsters.
4- She ran away from what is cleary her destiney. A lightsaber literally called out the her and gave her visions, and her reaction is to run crying into the woods like a little bitch. Only to get caught and thus her destiney is forced upon her.
>>64914286 I went to the movie without knowing anything. It's a miracle I knew so little about fucking Star Wars. I didn't know JJ directed it or that Kylo Ren was inspired by keyboard warriors/trolls.
It's just that after watching the movie, Ren just gives off the vibe of being very bad at being bad. He did say he still has a little "light" in him and he's struggling with that.
Again, I'm mo Star Wars nerd, but I'm really hoping Rey turns bad or some shit like that
A writer from essence street I knew once told me the parrels of intentionall writing a ground-breaking character. Socio-political dogma bleeds through because of public opinion, so they adapt to meet that. Cookie Monster had to be retooled because of bitching about eating disorders/addiction, Oscar had to be developed as liking garbage instead of being homeless/poor, and they've actively started to embrace Bert and Ernie being gay joke for representation in the gay community. Where I'm going with this is the decision to make Rey a female they were committing (intentionally) to a Mary Sue character. Reason being any normal character flaw would be offensive. Can't pilot? Then she's part of the "women can't drive" joke or is t a genius with tech in a technowonderland? They'd botch that she's stupid, if she can't fight they'll be offended she's portrayed as weak an on and on. So what you have is a character that actually can't have any flaws at the end of the day, because they'd rather have people objecting over "nothing" than something a human rights group can file a motion over. Seriously, this was all anticipated and she is what she is.
To be fair to Rey, crazy ass aliens probably harass and try to rape her all the time, so she likely very defensive. But still, guy is freaking out saying your in danger and trying to help you and you give him shit for it, kind of a bitch move.
>>64914349 You're really stretching to include "the refusal of the call" and "overconfidence" as a weakness. Her naivety or inexperience don't seem to effect her actions, and that's unrealistic and takes the audience out, im glad you like her and put the blinders on but most people have their own sensibility.
The fact alone that I never heard the term "Mary Sue" ever applied to any female power character before this, and now it's such a dominant attribute, indicates to me that she fulfills the description adequately
not the converse, which Reyfags tend to imply
I just don't like this character, maybe a good director will have a pair of balls with episode 8 and flesh her out better
at this point she seems like a 13 year old fat little tumblrites Star Wars fantasy
>>64914578 Her mechanical skills was good enough for her fly on the Falcon better than Han Solo ever did.
Fucking nope, she clearly almost crashed several times and only had like 2 tie fighters on her. Han flew the Falcon during the assault on the death star, a waaaay more impressive feat than what Rey did. She did seem to know how it works better than him, but flying skills Han was still way superior.
How are running away like a coward and being too overconfident that leads to mistakes that nearly kill you and your friends not weaknesses?
And yea, she is way too good of a jedi too quickly. But so was Luke and /tv/ jerks it hard over him. Regardless its a space opera about space wizards who fight with energy swords and magic powers, dont take it too seriously faggots.
>>64913852 In ANH Luke was a whiny little bitch who just wanted to fly around and shoot shit and maybe join the rebellion. He had no patience and because of that had trouble grasping the force. In the trench run the only reason he came out on top was because of Han saving his ass, otherwise he was probably a lot worse than the other X-Wing pilots there, he just got lucky. He doesn't really beat anyone, often he's the one being beaten or has to watch while someone saves him. He is quite clearly the student only just beginning to learn in ANH (just as the viewer is only just beginning the Star Wars series).
By RotJ he resolves these character flaws, to stand the ultimate test versus his father who once followed a similar path.
>>64915113 >That is complete bullshit, it took training with Yoda and Degoba to have any of the Force abilities Rey had Objectively false.
Luke had been made aware he had the force just hours before he used it to destroy the Death Star, which is a more impressive task than Rey beating a mortally wounded and semi-psychologically traumatized Kylo Ren.
Also, pretty much any force ability Luke leaves Degobah with he already had, as we see him use them on Hoth. His training with Yoda only focused his powers.
The prequel logic of needing months and months to years of training to be proficient with the force is out the window. We're back to the basics.
Luke was able to force grab his lightsaber early in ESB, before his yoda training, and he had barely any training from Obi.
And you all seem to forget they are HEAVILY implying that Rey had some sort of training already. Her past and parentage are a mystery for a reason, a obvious big twist in the next movie. While shity story telling, it can be a excuse for her already developed jedi powers.
>>64914796 >She did seem to know how it works better than him, but flying skills Han was still way superior. shit like this bugs me. other anons in other threads said this is explained by her being a tech manual sperg, and reading about that shit makes sense ( i doubt Han was much on book learning, more of a street smarts guy). but this is buried in some side promotional material or novel, and shouldnt be. Show, don't tell. The movie should be complete itself and not need extra material to make sense.
>>64915044 Luke was a pretty shit Jedi in all 3 movies m8. His biggest triumph was probably destroying the Deathstar because he did it by himself. He only beat Vader because he got angry and was close to falling to the dark side. Then got BTFO by Sheev and had to be saved by daddy.
The biggest problem with Rey is that her skills are more or less unexplained. I mean it's not far fetched that she's a skilled mechanic, given she works with mechanical parts everyday to get food. It's not unrealistic that she's a skilled fighter since we see her staff, and she beats up a couple of thugs. Her piloting skills may be because she had spent some time in space ships and got the basics of them, maybe did some sims on the crashed destroyer, and because of the Force. But it's all rather unexplained. I hope she has better character development in the next movie.
>>64915542 >Wow Luke believed in himself and used the force to shoot one blast accurately when he was already known to be a good shot He had never even flown an X Wing before. He made a super precise shot with zero targeting equipment. Even Vader, a veteran Sith Lord, flying around behind him was impressed by his connection to the force.
What Rey accomplishes is far less impressive because it's established before she beats Kylo that he's pretty shit. Boyega scores a hit on him.
>>64915344 >a pilot doing his job >vs some random slut facing a force user in combat
yeah luke destroying the death star wars so unbelievable, what a mary sue. not like the rebels were going to send their normal, non-force sensitive pilots on to do the same mission luke just happened to complete
Well, when we first see her she is scavaging a big ass ship, so we see she knows ships really well, since that is literally her life. Also she clearly knew about the Falcon, she knew how it changed hands and ended up in that desert parking lot. She called it garbage, implying that she was somewhat knowlable about the workings of it to declare it bad. Also was impressed when she learn it was THE Millenium Falcon.
Its really not that much of a stretch for someone who was literaly raised on a ship scrapyard, to know alot about ships. If you were raised in a junkyard/ garage, youd have a pretty good working knowlege of cars
>>64914349 >1 >Uh she was sort of a bad shot I g-guess...
Kek. She pretty much never used a blaster in her life and she used it amazingly.
You are digging super deep for emotional problems. It was just supposed to be a quip.
She released them so they could have an action scene and also it ended up saving everyone.
She ran away from her destiny in one scene for about a minute. It was short lapse of judgement. I would give you this one as a legitimate flaw but she only did this once and instantly got over it in the next scene and it was never brought up again.
>>64915647 Yeah, but HE took the shot, sure he had some help, but he was the only one who could do it because the Force helped him. >The only major accomplishment Luke can take full credit for is getting Vader to renounce the dark side. That's true of course.
>>64910894 Rey is the daughter of Luke Skywalker. Notice how close the hug with Leia was despite only meeting her ONCE? Almost blood related no? As if its a long lost aunt.
Luke force wiped her mind and tried to hide her. She was the second force child that Luke was trying to train.
She is the 1st cousin of Kylo Ren a.k.a Ben Solo. Why else would Anakin/Luke's blade go only to Rey and not Kylo when force pulled? Simple it responded to the bloodline of Jedi Skywalkers. Leia doesn't count with Ben because she wasn't a Jedi but she was force sensitive.
I'm glad that the new movies are taking chunks of the EU from Old Republic and New Republic era's but I REALLY want to see Coruscant in the next movie and space battles. >>64911077 Poe and Finn are gonna be gay couple if you believe the alleged set leak photos that were on reddit a couple days ago.
>Struggling to force grab a light saber sticking out of the snow after having trained with the Force for three fucking years >Successfully force grabbing a light saber after having learned of the existence of the Force seven hours beforehand and overpowering the force grab of a fucking savant-level force user to do so
What goes through youre head to think that these are equal? And dont give me that bullshit about Rens incomplete training: his skills in light saber combat are the only thing in debate, his prodigal level of force control is absolutely not.
>>64911408 >Able to fly Millenium Falcon with 0 beforehand knowledge
>Can use and spam Mind Trick with ease which is one of the hardest force moves to use only avaible to masters with years of training >Can handle a lightsaber without training and fight against someone with actual proper lightsaber and force training even though injured >B-but muh staff Staff and sword combat are nothing alike
>>64910894 The whole complaint is a retarded maymay that you nerds probably just learned from Max Landis. There are lots of protagonists who aren't incapable of doing things. A Mary Sue is someone who is fucking perfect and doesn't stress and says some too-perfect comebacks every time they get into a fight that they easily win. Protagonist from Taken is a lot closer to a Mary Sue than Rey is.
>Unlike standard Mary Sue trope, we are provided contextual exposition that explains why she knows a lot about mechanical engineering, spacecraft, and how to defend herself. >Unlike standard Mary Sue trope, she's constantly running for her life, running away, trying not to get killed, sweating her ass off, extremely distressed, and spends half the movie rejecting that she's a hero at all. That ain't a Mary Sue. >Now that we have screeners, the idea that she "kicked Kylo's ass" is dead. He spends the entire time beating the shit out of her, until he gives her time to consider his job offer, in which she has a "use the force" moment exactly like her father, and is briefly able to overcome an impossible obstacle. Pretty standard protagonist trope. >Another common buttwhine is that "everyone likes her." Which is pretty fucking stupid when you watch the movie. Fucking nobody likes her on Jakku. Her boss rips her off and exploits her labor, she's constantly bickering at or being bickered at, and constantly having to defend herself from people trying to fuck her over. The fact that she has a common bond with fellow orphan Finn while they are forced to work together so as to not die doesn't make her a Mary Sue. And the fact that Han doesn't hate her after she proves she can be helpful doesn't make her a Mary Sue either. >Other complaint I've seen is that Leia hugs her before chewie. When you rewatch it Rey walks out first and walks directly to Leia looking sad. It's not like Liea steps around Chewie. And it's likely that Rey is her niece or some shit.
>>64915907 >You should have paid attention during the briefing scene. Luke mentioned he has no difficulty shooting at small targets from a large distance on his speeder. >Luke mentioned he has no difficulty shooting at small targets from a large distance on his speeder. >from a large distance on his speeder. >on his speeder >his speeder >speeder
No anon, I think you should have played more attention.
The reason people defend Luke's accomplishments as being more realistic given his level of training is because for every accomplishment there are scenes that show him struggling and growing as not only a Jedi but as a person which humanizes the shit out of him. You look at him in ANH and see a naive kid fucking about trying not to get his shit wrecked. He spends half his time in the Dagobah scenes trying and failing to prove himself. He comes off as annoying sometimes but still very much a humanized and sympathetic character.
Even if it's revealed that Rey had Jedi training and went through her own fair share of trials, it still damages her as a character as of now because we're given all of this shit and expected to just accept it because she's the protag.
If your a dam good mechanic, getting a close up look at a car and it's engine and learning about it would give you some insight about it. Good dam, i swear half of you are actually autistic. What basic concept will i have to explain next.
>>64915668 You're trying too hard my man. like had faith and It was implied Obi-wan "guided" his shot to show him the power of the force. Rey had inexplicable miraculous powers multiple times throughout the film with zero help or mentoring.
>>64916100 Pretty much this. Yes Luke blows up the deathstar and does some cool stuff in episode 6 too but in general he mostly fails. So it's that much better when he finally does something right.
I've seen some images summarizing all the times Luke fails but off the top of my head
>gets beat by a sandperson and has to be saved >loses a fight with vader and has to be saved by friends >gets fucked by the yeti thing >has to get saved by han after he escapes the yeti >needs to be saved by han when hes about to blow up the death star >needs to be saved by r2d2 when they are in the trash compactor thing >gets captured by Jabba >needs friends help escaping Jabba >needs vader to save him from being fucked by sheev >sucks at training with Yoda >most people get a bad first impression of him
That's the main problem with Rey is she has no character building moments. She leaves desert planet and basically destroys everyone without getting a scratch on her.
>>64916337 Rey mindread Kylo, which inferred all his knowledge about the force onto her. This is why she knows how to use force powers like manipulate that one stormtrooper to free her from her prison.
Being able to take apart vastly complicated machinary and parts like that that make up star destoyers and tie fighters implying she has a good working knowlegde of how they work. Also she worked at the scrapyard/ garage cleaning and assembling/dissambling engine parts.
>>64916183 >One person pilots a two-person ship flawlessly navigates it through an old star destroyer, pulls off advanced maneuvers Han solo couldn't even pull off, know where all the controls are, knows where the guns are, knows how to navigate into space, knows where the hiding spots are, knows how to release toxic gas, knows how to bypass the compressor XD >all because she cleaned it a few times It's not fun to see characters do everything perfectly, it's fun to watch them try and fail but ultimately succeed by opening their mind/heart/advice/mentoring/overcoming their fears or insecurities.
Well done for not falling back on the dumb 'Luke blew up the Death Star on his own using the force' defence. Still some bits I'd take issue with, though:
>briefly able to overcome an impossible obstacle. Pretty standard protagonist trope.
But it's an OTT example, compared to previous Star Wars movies. We've never previously had a newbie beat a dark-sider with just one moment of concentration.
>Fucking nobody likes her on Jakku, etc.
It's about the main characters, not random nobodies. Han, Leia and Yoda were all unimpressed by Luke. The Jedi council was unimpressed by Anakin. Han and Leia hated each other. Lando had to get past being seen as a double-crosser.
And the stuff about having to run away? It's Star Wars - of course the good guys have to escape the baddies.
>>64916631 So goddamn what? Kylo still was able to fight well only somehow Rey had magical lightsaber training out of nowhere. Somehow Kylo never used force in the fight, remember when he force bitchslapped Rey? Yeah i bet you dont
>>64916629 No, buts with you saying "who cares" and "do you autists have a life" infers that anyone making negative statements about a character lauded by feminists is a gatekeeper and a tin foil conspiracy theorist
>>64916547 You do know Jedi are essentially space samurai right?
A samurai's weapon has a spirit of its own. If they are going this route with the new trilogy then its not impossible to imagine it went for Rey who wanted to take the saber back to its rightful owner Luke, Son of the original owner rather than Kylo who sought it merely to extend his own self woth and personal force power having the saber of Anakin and Luke skywalker.
It could also merely be that Kylo was so weak and wounded from his multiple injuries pre battle and during battle that his force power was spent whilst Rey's had just awoken.
Rey didn't know how to mindread at first. She was being mindread by Kylo for a minute or two. After that, she managed to block him out and do the same to him. How she exactly managed to do that wasn't explicitely told, but it could be that the skill to mindread is easy for force sensitive people, so just being aware of it would be enough.
>>64916813 >It could totally be like what I imagine >Why my imagination is not treated as canon Even mind trick is one of the hardest force moves. Do you think reading minds is as easy as someone with 0 force training can do?
>>64916117 >The guy from Taken gets hurt in the movies right? If he does get hurt it's never a big deal. And it's not like Rey doesn't get hurt. AND it's not like that has anything to do with the Mary Sue trope. >Also doesn't he have some sort of background in fucking people up? Doesn't she? >Nah the girl dirt farmer from planet dirt being good at everything isn't mary sue like at all Except she's not a farmer. That's Luke. She's shown scavenging mechanical parts from and for spaceships. She's shown defending herself a few times. There's MORE exposition that is SHOWN explaining why Rey is good at mechanical shit, climbing, fighting, and would understand how flying works. Takenman they just sit around having beers and he's like "Being a badass in the CIA sure was crazy right guys?" >>64916479 >0 training Implying she wasn't shown knowing how to defend herself with her stick multiple times in the first act. >Is able to defend against Kylo perfectly literally on her heels after every strike. Just barely managing to block. Not to mention Kylo isn't trying to klll her. >Somehow Kylo never uses force in that fight Kylo is all fucked up. Emotionally, physically, and in his understanding of the force. Kinda the whole point. >Somehow everything in the plot bends to go in favor of her Fuck sake you retards are starting to confuse protagonists with Mary Sue. Her hometown is blown up, the bar she visits is blown up, she is kidnapped, her mentor is murdered by his kid in front of her, she struggles with her Hero's Journey call to action for awhile, she struggles with letting go of the past. >SHE DOESN'T GET MURDERED AND RAPED. CONFIRMED FOR MARY SUE. That's you.
Just because the original movie is based on a japanese tale doesn't mean that Jedi are literally space samurai. The rest of the movies completely deviate from that
Even your retarded samurai analogy was half true, never in any of the other movies has it been previously established that there's something like a spirit link between Jedi and their lightsaber. In fact both ESB and ROTJ make the lightsabers completely disposable weapons, because the greatest tool of the Jedi is the Force. There's no fucking reason for the lightsaber to be some mystical Mcguffin because they have always been replaceable trivial weapons in every single movie.
>It could also merely be that Kylo was so weak and wounded from his multiple injuries pre battle and during battle that his force power was spent whilst Rey's had just awoken.
That makes no sense either, Luke wasn't immediately able to use Force powers either just because Obi Wan "awakened" him to it. It's poor shitty writing designed to shoot a "cool" scene for Rey
>>64916498 She gets thrown around by explosions and force pushes and everything else the entire time. She doesn't get hurt by Kylo because Kylo is trying to recruit her. We're really at the point where because she's not like bleeding from the face the entire time she's a shitty character?
And what in the fuck does that have to do with Mary Sue anyway? Mary Sue trope doesn't imply they're fucking Luke Cage and literally can't be scratched. What are YOU on about?
I love how every single "argument" Reyfags have basically is either a logical fallacy, trying to misinterpret or flat out come up with things that are never shown or told in the movie, or just gasping at straws by saying it was explained in the novel
Luke fits the more traditional concept of a Mary Sue being an author insert but his character development arc more than makes up for it. Rey might go through a lot of character growth across the span of her three movies but as it stands she fits the all powerful and everyone loves her bit of the Mary Sue formula perfectly.
Right now it's hard to judge because her character arc is going to span three films and in the context of only TFA it's very shallow.
>>64916904 The movies have never explained which force powers are easy to use and which hard, so I wouldn't know. What has been established is that through the power of self-confidence, you can unlock your dormant force powers and perform amazing magical feats.
In the trippy vision scene, we see Rey bein left with the fat alien that runs the scrapyard. He likely had her trained in scraping/ working on ships so she would not be a total mooch an carry her weight.
>she didnt go to mechanical school and get a degree, how can she work on ship?
Its called learning by doing faggots, its literall all she does, work on ships and ship parts, yoi guys really think she never picked up anything more than grab shiney metal parts, clean and sell them. 15 years alone in a desert, i would probably start fucking around with engine parts to see what i could make or get working out of sheer boredom
>>64916925 >Believing defending yourself with a staff against nobodies and defending yourself with a sword against someone who has real proper training is the same thing. >On her heels >>64916010 0:00 to 0:10, she has 0 fucking trouble there >Kylo never used force after he actually uses force against her 2 mins ago Yeah it is because he is totally fucked up in the head meanwhile we had seen him use force pretty easily beforehand. That point is your bullshit. >Home town is blown up, some place she has been to is blown up, kidnapped Boohoo what tradegy meanwhile her ability to mind read Kylo, spamming a high level force ability with ease. Instantly healing from getting slammed by a tree are never explained
>>64916549 >His point was she was too powerful from the start. That's not a Mary Sue though. She's a character who's discovering they've been burdened with superpowers. Is Clark Kent a Mary Sue? Is Wolverine? All the X-Men? King Arthur was the only person able to pull the sword from the stone, why was HE the only one?! ALL CONFIRMED FOR MARY SUE.
>In the trippy vision scene, we see Rey bein left with the fat alien that runs the scrapyard. He likely had her trained in scraping/ working on ships so she would not be a total mooch an carry her weight.
She apparently didn't get "trained" that much, or wasn't very good, if they didn't give her an actual job to that effect and she was living as a bum
>Its called learning by doing faggots, its literall all she does, work on ships and ship parts, yoi guys really think she never picked up anything more than grab shiney metal parts, clean and sell them. 15 years alone in a desert, i would probably start fucking around with engine parts to see what i could make or get working out of sheer boredom
She takes things apart. There is nothing to say that she likes putting things together. Anakin has C3PO and his pod racer to show for his technical abilities he's honed, for example. She plays with rusty old pilot's helmets in her spare time.
>>64917081 More like years of hard training since childhood, guidance from a Jedi master. Meditation. >Force is magic You do realize that statement is retarded right? Force is established as a fundemantal power in the universe like Chi
>>64916745 Fallacy fallacy. Acting autistic about fallacies for arbitrary shit is more intellectually dishonest than the thing you're negating. >if you lived in the dumpster behind the computer store you would not in fact come out the other side an electrical engineer Cries False Equivalency. Makes a False Equivalency.
You're literally pulling shit out of your ass. She never gets hurt in any part of the movie. The most that happens to her is that an explosion sends her flying along with Finn
But that's beside the point. The main problem is that she's always the one rescuing literally ever single character from trouble, and when something happens to her she literally rescues herself and then goes on to rescue everyone else.
When those guys try to take BB-8 at Jakku? She fights them off by herself When the TIE fighters are after them? Her expert piloting skills get them out of danger When Han and Chewie are about to get shot? She does something stupid that doesn't matter because it works out in their favor anyway When Finn gets captured by the monster? She rescues him When the stormtroopers come after her in the forest? She takes them all out by herself even though just seconds ago she didn't even know how to use a gun When Kylo captures her and tries to mind read her? She fights him off easily and out of nowhere is able to reverse the trick on him When she's bound and Finn and company decide to go rescue her? She frees herself through a literal Deus Ex Machina and is basically on the way to escaping all by herself when she bumps into the guys that were going to rescue her She gets slammed into a fucking tree, but then she magically wakes up and is in perfect condition and then absolutely humiliates the villain in combat
There isn't a single obstacle she can't immediately overcome. Because of that there is no tension and the story is shit because you never get involved with the story. You just know that no matter what happens, she will pull through and nothing bad will happen
>>64917148 Luke went through fucking training when he joined the Rebel Alliance, Rey jumps into the millennium falcon with no prior training or experience whatsoever and can pilot it like she's owned the fucking thing, at least Luke had experience with piloting something before he got in the X-Wing
>>64917265 >has the widest range of ability and intelligence ever presented in a Star Wars episode Really? You don't want to maybe think about that for a second? Her grandpa doesn't count in your mind? Fucking toddler made C3PO, only human to ever win a Pod Race, first time ever in a space ship and he blows up the Droid control Donut. >Confirmed for retarded.
>people immediately like her and trust her Except for all of the people that don't like her and don't trust her. One person (Finn) and a Droid are the only characters she interacts with in the first act that don't treat her like shit. And that's such a fucking stupid complaint for everything after they leave Jakku. The people she's interacting with have no reason to hate her. It's not like it's some convention that everyone has to fucking hate the protagonist in fantasy adventure genres. Keep parroting maymays bruv.
>no major setbacks and beats the main villain at the end Hometown blown up. Constantly running and being blown up. Get's captured in the second act. Constantly stressed and barely surviving my the skin of her teeth. You literally have no fucking idea what Mary Sue is.
And magic still takes some fucking training to master
Let's take another Mary Sue as an example. Neo is literally THE Chosen One in the Matrix, yet he doesn't immediately become proficient at literally every thing he does. He gets his shit kicked in. He needs to work with other people, he doesn't go around magically saving everyone by himself throughout the movie. He isn't immediately liked by everyone he meets. He experiences an actual character arc and at the end it pays off when he's able to beat the agents
In TFA Rey has no character arc. From the very beginning she's self motivated. All she does is venture into old ass ships to salvage shit. From that we're supposed to believe she's a master technician, pilot, and then because of a retarded "chosen one" moment with the CGI orange we're supposed to accept she's jedi jesus and literally saves herself from all possible danger, even so far as having a retarded scene where a weapon "chooses" her instead of the bad guy because "She's meant to wield it!". And of course everyone loves her. Finn and Chewie love her just from 5 seconds of meeting her, Han offers her a fucking job for no reason, the Resistance puts all their faith in her even though she's a complete nobody to them
>>64917416 They handwaved Luke going along and keeping up with the other x-wing pilots in one line, I'm pretty sure if they had time for her to have all her strong woman lines they could have thrown in tiny clue-ins that justify her proficiency with everything she touches.
If you're going to have this bitch show mastery in engineering and piloting then yes, you are going to need to tell us how she did it, considering they spend 20 minutes showing her picking up desert scraps and rolling around in the sand
Protip: you're the one who's being unreasonable
Taking things apart, especially broken things WILL NOT
WILL NOT render you a good mechanic, and especially not a great mechanic, and considering her scenes in the Falcon, as well as aboard Solo's frigate, they try to present her as a great and innovative mechanic
I don't know why, they don't give much justification, if any, as to how, but she does it, it's poor writing, and another element of her poor character
That's just the way it is, you may not like that people don't like your little pet waifu, I'm sorry
>>64917649 >what does her grandfather have to do with a anything? If good by your logic/excuse that it's hereditary, then why isn't Luke as proficient as she is? I like how you keep dodging the point that it was the main cabin characters that immediately liked her yet you keep bringing up Jakku
>Really? You don't want to maybe think about that for a second? Her grandpa doesn't count in your mind? Fucking toddler made C3PO, only human to ever win a Pod Race, first time ever in a space ship and he blows up the Droid control Donut.
Anakin is only ever established to have notable proficiency in two things: piloting and technical ability
They justify this by showing him win a pod race as well as his own creations and job as a technician.
Rey is portrayed as a great mechanic/engineer, pilot, fighter, and even marksman, with little to no justification.
>Except for all of the people that don't like her and don't trust her. One person (Finn) and a Droid are the only characters she interacts with in the first act that don't treat her like shit. And that's such a fucking stupid complaint for everything after they leave Jakku. The people she's interacting with have no reason to hate her. It's not like it's some convention that everyone has to fucking hate the protagonist in fantasy adventure genres. Keep parroting maymays bruv.
The people on Jakku are uncivilized and trivial with regards to the story. The droid loves her immediately and is attached to her hip, Finn falls in love with her and goes into full let me save you mode upon meeting her, Chewie inexplicably loves her, Han inexplicably sucks her dick and gives her a job offer, Leia inexplicably loves her after about an hour and sends her off on the Luke mission, Maz coddles her. I've never seen a character as doted on. You're fucking delusional.
>Hometown blown up. Constantly running and being blown up. Get's captured in the second act. Constantly stressed and barely surviving my the skin of her teeth. You literally have no fucking idea what Mary Sue is.
These aren't plot setbacks at all and you're just an idiot. You literally cannot make nuanced judgements and employ true critical thinking. I'm probably not even going to continue this argument because I've already done this before,
You do know this applies completely to Rey right? You fucking dumb faggot
Luke never pulls any crazy shit in ANH, he just gets a lucky shot because he lets the Force guide him. That's a lot different from being able to use Force tricks out the ass and piloting the Falcon through a god damned star destroyer
>>64917406 >You're literally pulling shit out of your ass. She never gets hurt in any part of the movie. The most that happens to her is that an explosion sends her flying along with Finn She gets thrown like 30 feet into the air, hits her spine on a tree, and is downed for the extent of Finn's fight with Kylo. > The main problem is that she's always the one rescuing literally ever single character from trouble, and when something happens to her she literally rescues herself and then goes on to rescue everyone else. She only escapes Jakku because of Finn's help shooting the TIE fighters.
Everything else you list is basically just complaining that the protagonist in a movie doesn't get fucking murdered in their movie. Showing her ability to fight in the first act sets precedent for why she was able to defend herself against Kylo in the third. She's a person who was born with magical powers and is learning how to use them. She's exactly as Mary Suey as Anakin or Clarke Kent or Charles Xavier or anyone else. If you're going to complain about space magic in a space magic movie, that's your problem bruv.
>>64918084 >She gets thrown like 30 feet into the air, hits her spine on a tree, and is downed for the extent of Finn's fight with Kylo. And nothing fucking happens to her from that she only faints and shrugs it off like a broken fingernail Yet somehow she also has unexplained miraclous abilites of anything she touches
>>64918134 Honestly, people keep comparing her to Luke and Anikan as if we should just be alright with a poorly written character because there were others before her. ANH Luke is often regarded as annoying and whiny for most of the film and there are about five people on this earth who completely and unironically love prequel Anikan.
If anything, writers should be leaning from the mistakes of past narratives and using them to craft better characters.
Rey is worse not only for the overbearing nature of her portrayal in the film, but for the cabal of feminists/SJWs/waifufags who are going to illogically defend her to death due to the mere fact that she is female, and a central character in this movie
>complaining that the protagonist in a movie doesn't get fucking murdered
Fuck off you child. She literally solves everyone's problems and her own problems by herself within 3 seconds of meeting said obstacles. There is absolutely no moment where she fails at anything, or where she needs to go through some character growth by receiving advice or mentoring from someone, or else by learning from failure or overcoming her own personal flaws
As it stands, she has no flaws. Nobody mentors her. She never fails at any task. She just magically solves the entire movie by herself
>>64917701 Except if you're Luke, or Anakin, or Rey. What a wacky coincidence that THE THREE PROTAGONISTS ARE NATURALLY GIFTED. According to the retarded Jedi's, you can only be a Jedi if you're abducted at birth and brainwashed to be one. Luke is able to control the direction of a plasma torpedo with force magic, in spite of being like 19 and having trained for like a half hour. Anakin is fucking amazing at everything when he's a goddamn toddler with zero training at all.
>Let's take another Mary Sue as an example. Neo is literally THE Chosen One in the Matrix, yet he doesn't immediately become proficient at literally every thing he does. He literally becomes immediately proficient at everything he does. He LITERALLY DOWNLOADS SKILLS INTO HIS BRAIN. And more to the point, you're once again just calling protagonists Mary Sues. You don't even know what Mary Sue is, much less why it's fucking stupid to call protagonists one.
>In TFA Rey has no character arc Yes she does. >From the very beginning she's self motivated. No she's not. She's sitting around waiting on a desert planet for her family to return. She learned how to survive. >All she does is venture into old ass ships to salvage shit. From that we're supposed to believe she's a master technician, pilot....RUNON All luke did was farm moisture. Anakin was a fucking baby and a slave. >nd then because of a retarded "chosen one" moment with the CGI orange we're supposed to accept she's jedi jesus and literally saves herself from all possible danger, even so far as having a retarded scene where a weapon "chooses" her instead of the bad guy because "She's meant to wield it!" First off, calm down bruh. Organize your thoughts. You're literally complaining about the hero's journey. Excalibur chose Arthur, too. CONFIRMED FOR MARY SUE.
Be less retarded. I get that you really want to parrot the new maymay, but you suck at it.
>>64918419 Anakin was the goddamn chosen of the force, he had force spilling from his butcheeks Luke was son of Anakin and last hope of lightside to bring balance Rey, is a nobody character without 0 context and suddenly is 10 times more gifted than everyone And yes Rey has no character development >All Luke did was farm moisture Watch episode 4 for real this time
>>64917969 >They justify this by showing him win a pod race as well as his own creations and job as a technician. And they justify her skills by shower her fucking win a fight and fly the Millenium Falcon. Fucking hell bru. I love the idea that Oh they showed that baby being the best pod racer ever just cuz. That's ok. That's justified. But when literally the same thing applies to Rey MUH MARY SUE MAYMAY. >Rey is portrayed as a great mechanic/engineer, pilot, fighter, and even marksman, with little to no justification. Spending her entire life on a hostile junkyard planet working on spaceships. NO JUSTIFICATION. And literally every good guy in the Star Wars universe is good at shooting lazers at people. >The people on Jakku are uncivilized and trivial with regards to the story. Except they're literally the people that she grew up around for MOST OF HER FUCKING LIFE. >The droid loves her immediately and is attached to her hip She saved it. It followed her. Pretty standard trope brah. >Finn falls in love with her and goes into full let me save you mode upon meeting her They're bonded over BB-8, and the subsequent almost getting exploded experience. Him grabbing her hand says a lot about both of their characters. He either thinks of himself as a hero, or wants a hand to hold when he's scared, or both. He's a desperate orphan. How unbelievable that he bonded with a desperate orphan. >Chewie inexplicably loves her Chewie aint got beef > Han inexplicably sucks her dick and gives her a job offer, After he realizes that she's a good mechanical engineer and isn't an asshole. His son turned into a monster, how crazy that he'd want to take in a surrogate kid. >Leia inexplicably loves her after about an hour and sends her off on the Luke mission Leia is nice to her. She's been through a good amount of shit getting BB-8 to them, making her one of the most significant people in the Resistance. How inexplicable.
>>64915815 >Luke had never flown an X Wing before. >He had pilot experience with land crafts
He was an expert at piloting a T-16 which isn't a land craft. He would bullseye womp rats which implies he was already a crack shot. He had to be saved by Han to even have a chance to make the shot on the death star and then had to be guided by Obi-Wan to use the force to hit his target. It's like people defending Rey by comparing her to Luke have NEVER watched ANH.
>>64917969 >These aren't plot setbacks at all and you're just an idiot. You literally cannot make nuanced judgements and employ true critical thinking. I'm probably not even going to continue this argument because I've already done this before,
You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Which screenwriting school of thought are you referencing, you uppity faggot? ALL of those things are EXPLICITLY PLOT SETBACKS. Let's go to Maz's to get some bullshit, Finn will run away, and we'll go back to Leia or whatever. EVERYTHING EXPLODES, now Rey is captured on the enemy spaceship. That's a fucking plot setback you goddamn mook.
Fuck this. You edgetards are too fucking retarded. Learn how screenwriting works.
>>64918715 This, so much this, all these delusional Reyfags and SJWs will of course deny it and try to say this is mansplaining, which is hilarious considering anyone who's taken a literature class will tell you this is complete shit compared to the other Star Wars flicks
>>64918776 Are you bloody retarded? How does she fly The Goddamn Falcon without any prior knowledge about it? You are comparing the chosen one of the force to a random girl. The droid loves her immediately even though it has a mission and somehow Rey is able to convince the droid to reveal a classified info even though it did not reveal it to someone who was presented as a rebel. >Love blossoms over a droid and holding hands in panic She spent her life scrapping through spaceships, not learning how the circuits work their usage. If she did she would not be dumb enough to get scammed all the time
>>64918126 THE HERO AND PROTAGONIST DIDN'T DIE. MOVIE SUXXX MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE
>>64918185 PROTAGONIST DIDN'T DIE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE >>64918368 PROTAGONIST ISN'T RETARDED MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE MARY SUE >>64918555 >Watch episode 4 for real this time Luke was a nobody too in episode 4 you stupid fucking autist. Nice jokes faggot. >>64918655 LUKE CONFIRMED FOR MARY SUE >>64918959 I'M NOT SHOWN EVERYTHING AND CAN'T FATHOM THAT SUPPLIED CONTEXT ALLOWS ME TO FILL IN THE BLANKS MARY SUEMARY SUEMARY SUEMARY SUEMARY SUEMARY SUEMARY SUEMARY SUEMARY SUEMARY SUEMARY SUEMARY SUE
>>64919272 I'm bringing exactly as much of an informed opinion repeating Mary Sue over and over again as you fags are bringing an understanding of screenwriting or character tropes.
>>64919343 Nigger you retards have been repeating the same thing since the film came out. I've read the arguments, I've responded to them rationally, but the reality is that it's a retarded conversation and you've pushed the goalpost so far back that now essentially ANY protagonist is a Mary Sue. You don't even understand what the trope is, and you've all just been repeating the talking points like it's a game of telephone. This is just an inadequately repeated argument that took place 2 weeks ago. >>64919359 Move them goalposts faggot. >>64919413 BUT WE DON'T SEE HIM LEARN LITERALLY EVERYTHING ON SCREEN SO HE ONLY LEARNED ABOUT IT FOR THAT ONE SCENE. If you're willing to allow that maybe things happened off screen for Luke, but unwilling to entertain that maybe Rey learned how to fly on Jakku in some point in the 10+ years she was on that planet, you're a fucking autist and a hypocrite idiot cunt. Keep crying about space fantasy magic.
>>64920514 >That's all you have, an opinion Implying you have anything else. I've already responded to literally every point that's been made multiple times. It's like sisyphus though. No amount of pushing makes the maymay go away. >an informed opinion would be actually looking at the film objectively ok >for its shit writing Nice objective opinion dipshit. >then adding your subjective opinion No you've got it all wrong. What I need to do is repeat things Max Landis said 3 weeks ago, and then cherrypick bullshit and nitpick basic screenwriting conventions and character tropes to make the movie fit the narrative I want to argue about. What I need to do is keep pretending that this conversation has anything to do with the film's writing, and everything to do with the fact that the protagonist isn't a dude and that makes me insecure. >>64920677 >Please go on being an autistic loser crying. It's funny as shit watching you spaz. Sick response brah.
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