>There are people that don't recognise this scene as

File: 1356105631866.jpg (37KB, 405x344px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 405x344px

>we'll never ever find out what the photo at the end of the film was actually of originally

Makes for better horror, but the compulsion to know is immense.

Who let him out?

This was on "Pointless" earlier today by the way. No-one (out of 100 people) remembered Joe Turkel was in it.

>>64876679
up until that point, I thought I knew what was going on

>>64876908
Precisely f.a.m

With visual techniques Kubrick depicts Jack's relationships with the ghosts up to this point in a way that we think we've figured out what's going on.

This scene betrays that completely. You have to give in to the film's ambiguity from then on.

>>64876832
The same photo without that guy in it?

>>64876679
>There are people that don't recognise this scene as one of the greatest plot holes in cinema
fixd for you

File: gold ball 3.png (210KB, 595x370px) Image search: [Google]

210KB, 595x370px

This scene tho

>>64876832
>it is one part of the film on which Stanley Kubrick has been extremely clear about his intentions. As he told Michel Ciment, "The ballroom photograph at the end suggests the reincarnation of Jack"

>>64877112
It's taken from a book though

>>64876832
Ghosts told him to kill his family
There is literally nothing more to it

>>64876679
>mass murder happens in hotel
>the murderer gets reincarnated
>him and his family stay in the same hotel
>his son has "the shining", or ESP
>the ghosts try to get him to murder again

Am I missing anything?

>>64877261
Y-yes, Kubrick is deeper than that.

Y-you're dumb.

>>64877261
Wait, how many years had it been since the previous caretaker murdered his family? It couldn't have been that long.

>>64876832
the photograph was completely unnecessary, just a cheap 'spooky' moment

File: Akira_3_p001.jpg (292KB, 1025x1491px) Image search: [Google]

292KB, 1025x1491px

Best fan made trailer for this legendary film

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0Lwhslg-Cxw

>>64877366
It's not mentioned in the movie, but sure about the book.

>>64877150

in the original ending -- the one that was in theaters the first weekend of release before kubrick had it cut out of every print -- ullman tells wendy that jack's body can't be found. so at least at one point it was seemed to be ambiguous as to if it's a previous incarnation of jack in the photograph or if the jack we know was "absorbed" into the hotel and the photo reflects that

>>64877366
>>64877419
*not sure

File: wow-its-fucking-nothing.jpg (27KB, 290x350px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 290x350px

>>64877233
GHOSTS CAN UNLOCK DOORS

You fucking pleb

>>64877261
Jack wasn't reincarnated and had never been to the Overlook before.

At the end he is 'absorbed' into the hotel's spiritual realm.

Danny lets him out. Danny basically murders Jack

a nigger?

>>64877464
They were doing shit at the end
Are you suggesting they weren't ghosts?

Can someone explain what's so baffling about this scene? I'm dumb.

>>64877478
That's how I always interpreted the photograph. It makes more sense than some previous Jack from 1921 being reincarnated.

>>64877550
how did Jack get out is he was talking to ghosts/hallucinations? who opened the door?

>>64877598
Who did?

>>64877598
Where is it ever implied that the ghosts can't physically interact with things in the hotel? Based on what we're shown in the rest of the movie, they obviously can.

>>64877629
we never find out

>>64877598
>>64877668
Didn't the ghost bartender make Jack a drink?

>>64877378

The entire movie was unnecessary cheap moments desu.

>>64877682
Well that's a dumb, pointless theory then. Some random guy did it I guess? Or he hallucinated it. Has no impact on the story.

>>64877668
>>64877693
Well the thing is you as the viewer make the reasonable inference that Jack is just crazy, because none of the 'supernatural' stuff that's happened so far can't just be attributed to him. Even the drink, he coulda just walked behind the bar and got it himself. Except you see behind the bar when he walks into the Gold Room and there's no bottles or anything there. When he gets let out of the cooler is only time you can't explain a supernatural event by Jack doing it.

>>64877493
Up until this point the only thing you can tell for sure is he's going crazy and that it's probably genetic and the son is crazy too.

Once the door is unlocked though, the only explanation is supernatural elements which turn the whole thing around.

>>64876679

I don't even know who this is or what movie.

It looms old and boring.

>>64877757
I never realized there was any kind of debate over this. I always thought the hotel was blatantly haunted(blood filled elevator) and one of the ghosts unlocked the pantry door.

>>64877851
Nice effort there, anon.

>>64877829
It's obvious the whole way through
The hotel is on some sort of burial ground or something

>>64877859
Because that's literally what happens. But people have been over-analyzing this movie since it came out.

>>64876679

THERE ARENT ANY GHOSTS

sheesh, you people take kubricks work so literally. its so obvious jack is an alcoholic who is abusive towards his wife and son. it is implied jack SEXUALLY abused his son multiple times

the film isnt scary because "ooo ghost twins blood elevator scary!", but because its about the breakdown of the nuclear family.

what could be more frightening than to be a small child whos going to be isolated with his abusive father, but not only that but breaks sanity, and starts murdering everyone around you, and your mother who is pretty much helpless

>>64877859
>>64877668

Yeah this, I always figured it was the hotel wanting it to happen again. Like it was the place more than the people.

Which is why the last guy who worked there did the same even though he wasn't connected to Jack.

MOON ROOM

>>64877929
and then there's this guy

>>64877929
>it is implied jack SEXUALLY abused his son multiple times

When and how do you explain Danny's telepathic abilities if there's nothing else supernatural in the movie?

>>64877929
Hello Stephen

>>64877859
>>64877889
>>64877902
>>64877960

Nobody is arguing that it's not obvious. The point being made is that up until that point it was left intentionally ambiguous to the point where it COULD have just all been in their head. You can find a way to explain everything paranormal in the movie but once you get to that point there is literally no other explanation for how he got out than the ghost.

>>64878034
I forgot all about the powers shit, I thought it was just jack nichsolon going crazy in a hotel. Rewatched it recently and the autismal "speshul powers" crap ruins the movie. Any time they brought it up it was like, oh here's another reddit scene. The true horror is man itself. Not capeshit super skills.

>>64877960
Yeah, basically the ghosts of the hotel wear their target down by using their vices against them, which in Jack's case were his alcoholism and temper.

>>64877929
>it is implied jack SEXUALLY abused his son multiple times
sounds more like your fantasy there, bud. He accidently broke Danny's arm once, that's why he gave up drinking.

>>64877929
how did he get out of the cooler room then?

>>64878034
It's a metaphor.

>>64878380
It was never locked.

I saw it, but long ago. Refresh my memory, families.

>>64878406
Kek. So Halloran was chilling in Florida when he got bored and decided to make a quick trip over to Colorado to see what Danny was doing?

>>64877424
That latter explanation was always the one I went with, even without knowing about that cut. I think the ambiguity is good, but if that reincarnation thing was Kubrick's original idea, then I disagree with his interpretation and that decision

>>64878413
it clearly shows wendy luring him in and locking it.

>>64877550
Interview with Kubrick on The Shining:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keo5HQcC0po

I think he says the genius of the book is in the panty scene.

>>64878544
>the panty scene

>>64878564
THE PANTIES ARE THE KEY TO ALL OF THIS

>>64878153

Honestly the supernatural stuff had no place. It barely did anything for the film other than pointless SO SPOOPY moments. You could have achieved everything important in the movie by just showing Jack struggle with writers block which leads to him falling back off the wagon with booze which then turns to cabin fever and boom he's insane enough to murder his family.

>>64878350
While not that anon, I think there's consensus that Jack sexually abusing Danny is one possible interpretation. Not saying it's the be-all end-all, but it's regarded as one of the stronger readings of the movie. It also makes sense of the bear man blowjob scene.

>>64877378

It ties the movie together and actually gives substance to what Grady was saying. If that revelation doesn't affect how you see the movie on subsequent viewings, you're retarded.

>>64877929
This

Jack was drunk as fuck and just thought he was locked inside

File: image.jpg (18KB, 225x225px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 225x225px

>>64878350
>jack molesting his son is s theory

Wow you really should just stop posting altogether

>>64878761
there's no reference to it in the book

>>64878654
The point of the supernatural shit is to highlight Jack's more natural mental breakdown. The point of the movie is that the human mind, and its ability to collapse in on itself, is scarier than any ghost story.

>>64878485
>Halloran

Halloran wasn't real.

>>64878761
dumb drakeposter

>>64878782
that's got to be the dumbest fucking argument i've ever heard someone make

>>64877889
>>64877902
Kubrick disagrees with you

See >>64878544

>>64878786
???

All the main characters and a few supporting chracters meet him in the beginning. While it's true that Danny could have imagined his conversation about the shining with him, he definitely comes back to the Overlook because Wendy watches Jack kill him.

>>64878820
i know, arguments are too complicated so you don't get into many

File: 1380007811843.jpg (27KB, 324x278px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 324x278px

>spooky ghost movie
>"it's ambiguous the characters might just be crazy"

>>64878709
see
>>64878521

>>64877929

No, you idiot, the ghosts were real but symbolic of the recurring nature of evil.

>>64877929
There's something in this theory.

Danny is framed with bears throughout the movie. Jack is framed with crowns.

>>64878785

I mean that's a nice idea but I ultimately ends up meaning hey we half assed supernatural elements so the other element would be scarier.

>>64878130
Someone gets it.

>>64878824
No offense, but just because he's the director doesn't mean he knows the meaning behind every scene.

>>64878824

Kubrick's explanation is pretty shitty desu. And a place absorbing and expelling absorbed evil is a common theme in King's work.

>>64877261
It's about how the jews forced him to fake the moon landing

>>64878840
On top of that, the ghost of Grady tells Jack that Danny contacted Hallorann.

>>64877629
Who is phone?

>>64877693
It was his ghost butter

>>64879079
No, that's the plot hole in the Matrix. We're talking about the Shining. Try to keep up, senpai.

>>64877415
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmkVWuP_sO0

>>64878928
I don't understand why people even like, let alone prefer that theory. If Jack was that delusional, how would he even be able to function?

I'm easily scared by horror but the shining never really scared me that much

is it too deep for me

>>64879027
>the "artists don't realize the meaning of their work" meme

Shut the fuck up, this argument is such bullshit.

>>64879180
Make me.

>>64879104
Sorry boo

>>64879210
pls

>cinema
Pretty sure that is a flick.

>>64879180
The death of the author has been around for decades.

Also, you're telling me you know, 100%, the reasons why you do every single thing? Despite the fact more often than not you're unaware of your reasonings until after the fact

Watch the documentary "Room 237" if you want to hope you can understand anything you flaming plebeians. This board is almost worse than /r/truefilm.

>>64879176
What age were you when you first saw it? The daughters scared the shit out of me as a kid.

>>64877598
I thought the ghosts did.

>>64879259
90% of it is garbage

What do you guys think of the Danny-Bear-Blowjob thing?

It might not have been Kubrick's primary theme but he was definitely saying something with it. Especially considering it's Wendy that catches "them".

>>64879259

Unwatchable, even the parts that weren't about the moon landing are just inane speculation.

>>64879529
This. It's an interesting film, but really doesn't illuminate anything new on the Shining. It's fun to watch - especially for the insane moon landing conspiracy theorist who goes on about hwo he fears the government will silence him - but it's not really good.

>>64879529
>>64879582
Hey dummies, the point of the movie isn't to convince you that they're right, it's to show the lengths people will go in their fandom and devotion and how good art can drag you into endless speculation

>>64877419
The book it's like 20 years or fewer. Not long at all, maybe a decade, a few years?

Whatever.

In the book Jack Torrence has nothing to do with the hotel to start with, he's just weak and the hotel feeds off that and uses him for its own ends (acquiring Danny).

>>64879529
>>64879582
Read Rob Ager's blog then. I bet you have no idea who that guy is.

>>64880011
Ager is an autist through and through.

>>64877124
Dude I lost my shit. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this shit was brilliant

>>64878659
>It also makes sense of the bear man blowjob scene.
That's the hotel owner and his sex slave

>>64879431
17 or something, but I'm 25 now and most horror movies still give me the creeps

I'm not going to argue Halloran isn't real but why the fuck is he even in the movie? In the book he lives and helps Wendy and Danny but in the movie he literally serves no purpose. He has this deep connection to Danny and we get numerous scenes of him worrying abut Danny and reacting to things and we keep getting cuts back to him traveling to the hotel to check on them and then they just kill him. He didn't do a fucking thing.

>>64880123
>>64879571

File: image.jpg (101KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

101KB, 1280x720px

>>64880075
Stay pressed, hater. Ager is alpha as fuck. Is one of the most important thinkers of our time along with Sam Harris perhaps.

>>64880163

It's just not a scary movie. I'm the biggest pussy in the world and can't watch horror movies without the light on. But the Shining isn't horror. It's a thrilller. And it's kinda hard to be scared when you know nothing will happen to Danny or Wendy. They don't kill kids in movies and Wendy is our only other character and the protagonist.

It's more fascinating than horrifying.

>>64880310
>But the Shining isn't horror.

Not every horror has to be a slasher. It operates along the aesthetics of the unheimlich The Shining is one of the most horrifying films ever made.

>>64877785
no because it's implied that the house is haunted from the beginning when the manager or w/e tells jack about the guy who killed his family and himself, meaning the audience knows jack is going into something dangerous and bizarre, silly theory

>>64880290
>scouser
>autism

"Alpha"

Go to bed Rob.

>>64878677
it should really affect how you see the movie on your first viewing.

that is assuming you are still capable of remembering a dialogue scene 70% of the way through a film by the time that film ends.

>>64879829

If that were the case, it would showcase other films. It's a documentary about the Shining, and it's shit.

>>64880452
They were talking about how people get stir crazy

>>64880505

Same thing, the point is it changes how you analyze the film.

>>64879829
>good art = yuo can't know nothing!1!one!

>>64880454

>muh ghosts
>muh reincarnayshun

The hotel exists at a rift between the afterlife and the real world. It's like the woods in Twin Peaks. Jack passes over into the afterlife and therefore remains as a remnant of the hotel by the picture

>>64880452
All we're told is that a previous keeper of the hotel killed his family.

Jack isn't told the place is haunted.

Even Kubrick believes in the duality of the movie until the pantry scene.

>>64880412
>The Shining is one of the most horrifying films ever made.

What part exactly? Just being unfamiliar doesn't make something horror. The Shining is such a detached movie it feels like Kubrick didn't understand horror. He made some really striking scenes but just checking those boxes doesn't make it a horror film. It's set up like a horror movie and Kubrick wanted it to be a horror movie but it doesn't really end up a horror movie.

>>64876679

SLICED PEACHES

>>64880741
I'm not disagreeing with you. I just think you hold Rob Ager in too high a regard.

He can talk a lot of shit at times.

>>64876679
never seen this film someone summarize and tell me aboot the picture

>>64880777
The overall feeling. The vibes. The atmosphere. It's just scary. It makes me cry and piss myself from fear. It's a world I cannot a understand and I feel vulnerable and helpless. I fear for my life and soul. It feels like a descent in hell. A nightmare.

>>64880859
Guy has an argument with wife and she locks him up in the grocery store.

tl;dr product placement: the movie

>>64877261
Aside from subtext of genocide and historical violence You're about right.

>>64880666
>>64880777

god damn

>>64880897

Idk I've never understood that. Something like House on Haunted Hill sure but The Shining? The hotel barely plays a part at all. Most of the movie it's just the little girls over and over with a few scenes of Jack and the bartender. Then the completely irrelevant 237 scene and not much else until the end where they just start throwing pointless "weird" things at Wendy and at that point the supernatural doesn't even matter anymore because the story is clearly about Jack going insane. So throwing weird paranormal shit at Wendy serves no purpose. At least if they had gradually done it over the course of the movie it could have been what motivated Wendy to leave. But at this point we're already past the climax and Jack is the focus.

File: MV5BMTQ2MjU4ODc3OV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNjUyNTM3MjE@._V1_SX214_AL_.jpg (29KB, 214x337px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 214x337px

>>64881294
>House on Haunted Hill

2spooky4me

File: originalguy.jpg (103KB, 607x597px) Image search: [Google]

103KB, 607x597px

>>64876832

>>64878153
You are literally trash.

>oh here's another reddit scene
>capeshit super skills

Kill your family and then yourself.

File: Found_Flaw.png (1MB, 947x1062px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 947x1062px

>>64881568

The previous murderer?

sauce?

>>64878130
Danny opened the door dunce

>>64881568

We don't know what the photo is of though. What the event is.

>>64880075

So was Kubrick. Why Ager's the best voice on Kubrick so far.

>>64881759

He was upstairs sleeping and then redrumming.

>>64881697
It's an old photo that actually exists.

The photo was merely manipulated to include Jack

One google could tell you this

https://alancook.wordpress.com/tag/the-unaltered-ballroom-photo-from-the-shining/

>>64879146
Alcohol.

>>64881991
What did he mean by this?

>>64882033

With the reflections in the water they form arrowheads.

>>64882030
I think you mean ghost alcohol. I could be mistaken but didn't the manager say at the beginning that the hotel was dry?

>>64882033
I don't know... he just told his camera crew to make some nice pictures of mountains I think.

You just realized that in every single scene in which Jack interacts with a ghost, there are mirrors present around them in an ostentatious way. Kubrick clearly meant something by this.

>>64880590
No, it's literally a documentary about people's crazy theories about The Shining. How would they make a documentary about everyone's crazy theories about every movie? How fucking stupid are you that you don't understand this?

>>64880706
kill yourself idiot. thats not the point at all. fucking christ i thought this board was about movies. how can you watch Room 237 and not understand that you're supposed to be entertained by the wackiness of these weirdo theories?? that's it. fucking hell

I think it's pretty funny how some people accept Agers analysis as gospel. He's good at manipulating & editing that's for sure.

>>64882033
Isolation

>>64880123
>>64880238
>>64878659

The book explains the bear guy more

I think it's a person in a dog costume who essentially functions as the hotel bitch

>>64882324

Cite specific arguments you disagree with and why.

>>64882518
There is no context in the movie though for the bear man.

It may be imagery from the book but it can be interpreted entirely differently in a different medium.

>>64877124
i dont get it

>>64882631

If there is little to no explanation in the movie (which is constrained by time), wouldn't it make sense to, by default, use the book's description?

>>64882631

Ebert argued for this a lot. A movie is what happens on the screen. If the director or a book or the script or even a deleted scene offer an interpretation something, it's not to be taken at face value since it's not technically part of the movie.

>>64882724

If I may quote someone who knows his shit:

>By definition the weird story is based on an enigma that can never be dispelled if it be true to the weird experience—which may occur entirely in an author’s imagination—that serves as its only justifiable provenance. While this enigma will definitely exude an ambiance of the graveyard, it menaces as much by its unreal nature, its disorienting strangeness, as by its connections with the great world of death. Such a narrative scheme is usefully contrasted with that of the realistic “suspense” story, in which a character is threatened with a familiar, often purely physical doom. Whatever identifiable manifestations and phenomena are presented in a weird story—from traditional ghosts to the scientific nightmares of the modern age—there remains at the heart of the tale a kind of abyss from which the weird emerges and into which it cannot be pursued for purposes of analysis or resolution. Some enigmatic quality must be preserved if these terrible fatalities are to retain their allure.

Stephen King usually writes horror: there's always an explanation, a monster to defeat, something that makes sense out of everything that's happening. Kubrick took his novel and turned it into weird fiction (a term coined by Lovecraft, I think) which is about assaulting your sense of stability about what is real or can happen.

>>64882583
Well, take this bit from his Shining analysis for example:

Rob Ager:

The dialogue of the scene is full of innuendos about abuse.

Danny: "Tony is a little boy that lives in my mouth."

Doctor: "If you were to open your mouth could I see Tony?"

Danny: "No."

Doctor: "Why not?"

Danny: "Because he hides."

Doctor: "Where does he go?"

Danny: "To my stomach."

Doctor: "Does Tony ever ask you to do things?"

Danny: "I don’t wanna talk about Tony any more."


How in the world is that full of innuendos? it really only is if you WANT it to be. Just one example of Ager forcing his abuse theory on his audience.

>>64882871

That isn't Ager's only argument about the abuse theme, you're cherry picking one part of a larger argument. In context it isn't that farfetched.

>>64882975
You did ask me to cite a specific argument though. Anyway, you say 'context', but Ager is very much creating that context. When you look at some of he videos that he has cleverly edited you may feel his arguments totally make sense, but then you watch the film again and his theories really fall apart. Stay critical is all I'm saying, I mean, wouldn't independant conspiracy theorist Ager want you to ?

>>64883137
>You did ask me to cite a specific argument though.

Yes, but a whole argument. Ager has like over an hour's worth of video on that one theme alone. And I've never found an instance of his editing to not provide the full context as I've seen all these films dozens of times and know them like the back of my hand and have often re-watched them before and/or after reading his essays or watching his videos. If you can cite something specific in context I'd reexamine it though.

I call this Kubrick's 2001: A Spoops Odysse Y. It's obvious that the Stanley Hotel was like a 2001 monolith where past and present and parallel alternate universes intertwine whenever the shut that hotel down during the coldest time of the year. The Indians curse against whitey most likely created that warped break in space and time

>>64883263
I have read his full analysis and watched his videos and to be honest, at first I was really impressed with it, and actually thought it to be mostly correct. But later less and less so, especially after rewatching the movie again and again. I'm not at all saying Agers theories are impossible, I said I don't think people should so easily accept it as gospel.

>>64882724
"no"

>>64880844
I've watched nearly all his videos and bought a dozen of the buy only material, and hes only wrong on a few things, some he openly admits to not being sure of himself

hes pretty accurate on everything he says

File: 1452792143804.jpg (233KB, 1029x1189px) Image search: [Google]

233KB, 1029x1189px

>>64883517
>I've spent money on confirmation bias and don't want to feel like I've wasted it!

DUBS

File: 2001eye.jpg (165KB, 640x302px) Image search: [Google]

165KB, 640x302px

>>64883378

>>64883517
How much did you pay anon?

File: 1326607724077.jpg (57KB, 250x250px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 250x250px

>>64881640
underrated post

>>64883517
>Ager

Have you guys ever read his super autistic response to screenwriter John Augusts' critique of his "spatial distortion" theory?

He reads like someone who'd fit in well here

>>64884399
Nothing because that anon is obviously Rob Ager himself.

>>64876832
I think it was a way of implicating that Nicholson joined whatever the fuck was inhabiting that hotel, much the same way the previous murdering dude did.

>>64883602
Kek. BTFO

>>64877929
>sheesh, you people take kubricks work so literally. its so obvious jack is an alcoholic who is abusive towards his wife and son. it is implied jack SEXUALLY abused his son multiple times
>the film isnt scary because "ooo ghost twins blood elevator scary!", but because its about the breakdown of the nuclear family.

That was the intended message of the Stephen King book but also in the book they quite explicitly state there are real ghosts.

File: The-Shining-011.jpg (72KB, 620x372px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 620x372px

>>64876832
>Movie is about manifest destiny and the American Dream.
>(orders a drink) "White man's burden, my man. White man's burden." (Doesn't have money to pay for drink).
>Hotel built on indian burial ground.
>"I'm sorry to differ with you sir, but YOU are the caretaker. You've always been the caretaker."
>TALKING BOUT THE WHITE MAN since the west was won.
>"I should know sir, I've always been here."
>BRITISH DUDE. THEY STARTED THE PARTY.

>"Did you know, Mr. Torrence, that your son is trying to bring outside party into this situation?"
>Who?
>"A nigger."
>"When my wife tried to prevent me from doing MY DUTY. I corrected her."

Literally: Jack is being haunted by the indian spirits in the hotel, who manipulate him by appealing to his racism, feelings of duty rooted in westward expansion, and the idea that as a white man he is burdened to correct things when they get out of liine.

Figuratively: He's always been there. He's a drunk, self-important, abusive sociopath, and The White Man. He is manifest destiny/expansion-era white man's burden America personified. Or at least a fucked up outcome of it. He was always the caretaker.

>>64884975
>That was the intended message of the Stephen King book

Was it really?

>>64885610
Heard this one too.

I think there's multiple themes throughout.

File: pazuzu.png (261KB, 672x349px) Image search: [Google]

261KB, 672x349px

>>64884697
This. Also Pazuzu.

>>64886785
what's Pazuzu represent?

>>64882088
yes

which is why he goes crazy in the hotel, and not before