>>64871874 Stop being such a sperg. It's soft scifi. Call it fantasy if it bothers you so much, which is also what Avatar is. Whether it's hard or soft scifi is irrelevant to the quality of the story. Unless you're black science man and you feel the need to show off how lol so smart you are by nit picking every little detail.
>>64875263 >Flying 8 years at near light speed would be too costly, no matter the resource. They use antimatter and a solar sail for gradual acceleration and deceleration. At least they're trying to keep it realistic rather than have a mumbo jumbo plot device.
>>64876010 >ISV Venture Star is the most realistic space vehicle depicted in film. As much as Avatar is a completely forgettable movie, this is true.
>>64876541 >They would still need far one energy for one flight than humanity currently consumes per year. As opposed to the kind of energy and exotic matter required for a semi-realistic FTL method like warp?
>>64876572 you could have some sci-fi mumbo jumbo that explains why FTL is travel and why it doesn't afford much of energy. But if you live in a future where flying close to lightspeed is possible the hard way, it would have a lot of impications on the civilization which were ignored in that movie
>>64876668 >you could have some sci-fi mumbo jumbo that explains why FTL is travel and why it doesn't afford much of energy. That's a pretty huge cop out though. I appreciate that the people who designed the Venture Star took the time and research to come up with something that is plausible given our current understanding of possible, feasible modes of interstellar travel.
>it would have a lot of impications on the civilization which were ignored in that movie Like what? Our current civilization is barely Type I while it looks like the Avatar humans are slightly beyond Type I on the road to Type II, having presumably exhausted the prospect of finding better resources in the Solar System which is why they sought out the nearest star systems for exploration and mining.
>>64877095 For once, energy would be super cheap, compared for today, thus making everything else cheap aswell. The difference of living standards in Avatar world compared to ours should be like the difference between us and a medieval society
Endurance is retarded. ISV Venture Star is grounded in reality. The only thing exotic about it is the fuel source for the engines, which isn't even out of reality -- it's just very hard to produce antimatter in any substantial quantity and contain it. I'd think hundreds of years in the future it's entirely plausible that they've figured out how to do it.
One of the points of "unobtanium" was the fact that it was a superconductor at room temperature, and made interstellar travel commercially viable. The containment fields needed to control antimatter engines weren't possible without massive refrigeration plants needed to cool superconducting magnets, now they didn't need that anymore.
There's some solid science in the ship. Unlike just about anything else that's been depicted in film. You're welcome to throw something else out there that's been more thought out.
>>64877196 >For once, energy would be super cheap, compared for today, thus making everything else cheap aswell. I don't get it. Isn't that how they depict Earth in the movie? A planet that's consuming so much energy where everything is so cheap that's it's becoming polluted and overcrowded and that's why they're looking across interstellar distances to find new resources?
>The difference of living standards in Avatar world compared to ours should be like the difference between us and a medieval society Exactly, more crowded and polluted.
>>64877388 A shitpost for a shitpost. Seems fair to me, you tedious fucking, cuck.
Go on, have the balls to explain to us all why the Endurance is "retarded"? I'm not saying it isn't, but the logic used previously was that ISV Venture Star is a good space vessel because Cameron consulted scientists, despite it looking like the typical over-designed, impractical extravagant vehicles we usually get in sci-fi and Cameron. The same logic can therefore be applied to Nolan and the Endurance, so tell us why it's "retarded".
>>64877380 They imply that people on earth are rather poor, and the main protagonist can't even get an operation for his legs
>A planet that's consuming so much energy where everything is so cheap that's it's becoming polluted and overcrowded and that's why they're looking across interstellar distances to find new resources? If they can fly to other star systems at near lightspeed, it should be no effort for them to colonize other planets
>>64877606 >They imply that people on earth are rather poor, and the main protagonist can't even get an operation for his legs He's an unemployed Vet living on welfare, complex stem cell regenerative procedures that don't exist today are still presumably beyond what he has in his bank account
>If they can fly to other star systems at near lightspeed, it should be no effort for them to colonize other planets Pandora is the first extrasolar planet that they have started colonizing and the jackpot they hit as well as the fact that this is all a commercial enterprise means that they probably won't be exploring other systems any time soon Do you think Columbus went on to discover Australia just because he happened upon North America while trying to get rich?
Basic physics for one. In a world where they still needed an SLS type launch system to get into orbit to dock with the Endurance, they somehow manage to fit the energy densities required to escape a planet with much larger gravity wells (twice) with a one-stage ship the size of a minivan. That's just basic inconsistency in the premise of the film.
Two, the basic propulsion structure of the Endurance makes no goddamn sense. The propulsive force of the "ring" of box containers providing large amounts of delta V is being transferred to the central "command" ship via tunnel which can most aptly be described as a hinge point for the whole goddamn thing to come apart.
Now look at the Venture Star. It's one continuous structure of tensile-trusses made of carbon nanotubes in a "tractor" configuration. The "ship" is being towed by the propulsion system whether it's braking or accelerating. The basics are the fact that the Venture Star is based in reality where the Endurance is some bullshit Nolan thought looked cool.
Actually it does. A photon sail deploys and a bank of lasers from our solar system pushes it for 5.5 months to a speed of .7c, then it coasts for 5.83 years, does a 180 degree rotation and uses the antimatter engines to brake and enter Pandora's orbit. Then it does the exact opposite to come home.
The overall idea is pretty solid and believable to someone who's not a memer.
>An ISV has two matter-antimatter engines are arranged symmetrically in a tractor configuration that pulls the ship behind them. They are angled slightly away from the body of the ship, and are also aligned a few degrees off the ship’s longitudinal axis so their exhaust plumes bypass the ship’s structure. This results in a slight loss of thrust efficiency because the engines do slightly push toward each other, but even though there is a slight drag coefficient, it is necessary because the body of the ship must still be shielded from the plume’s thermal radiation. Scientists thought of placing the engines at the back instead, but the mass-savings advantage of a tensile structure outweighs the disadvantages of shielding. Since a very long truss is needed to separate the habitable section of the ship from the engines, which produce large amounts of radiation, such a structure would be prohibitively massive if it were a conventional space-frame truss designed for compressive loading, however the carbon-nanotube composite tensile-truss creates the necessary stand-off distance at one-tenth of the mass. Essentially, it is a rigid, extremely strong tow cable with engines in the front and the "trailer" in the rear.
>The antimatter fuel (in this case anti-hydrogen), is contained by a magnetic field in a near-perfect vacuum in which it circulates as a high density cloud of atoms cooled to near-absolute-zero temperature. When antimatter and matter (normal hydrogen) are brought together, they mutually annihilate and give off an enormous amount of energy, which must be directed by an ultra-powerful magnetic field to form the exhaust plume. These photons of energy, although without mass, possess momentum, and their ejection provides the thrust to accelerate the ship. Additional thrust is obtained by injecting hydrogen atoms into the plasma before it leaves the engines. The exhaust flare is an incandescent plasma a million times brighter than a welding arc, and over thirty kilometers long. The plume is considered to be one of the most spectacular man-made sights in history.
>>64876495 Not necessarily. Assuming we discover the proper exotic matter and a way to harvest it, an Alcubbiere Drive would be far less energy intensive than a sublight drive using anti-matter or any other such. Not to mention the other physical problems of reaching even fractional sublight speeds presents (such as heat reduction)
>In 2012, physicist Harold White and collaborators announced that modifying the geometry of exotic matter could reduce the mass–energy requirements for a macroscopic space ship from the equivalent of the planet Jupiter to that of the Voyager 1 spacecraft (~700 kg) or less.
But as for star wars, yes. Not only do they not explain their hyperspace, but they have other ships that straight defy the laws of physics as we know them.
Resurgent-class Star Destroyers featured a complement of 19,000 officers and 55,000 enlisted personnel. In order to keep such a large ship in operation, starship crews would be forced to work closely together and alternate each standard day into six four-hour-long shifts, divided among three crew sections.
Featuring over 3,000 turbolasers and ion cannons, the Resurgent-class vessels were designed for orbital assaults and slugging matches with enemy ships. Powerful turbolaser batteries allowed for overloading enemy shields and punching through thick armor, along with orbital bombardments capable of reducing planetary surfaces to molten slag. Upgraded from Imperial-era turbolasers, the Resurgent-class delivered more firepower and had a faster recharge rate. Stemming from kyber focusing crystals harvested from a secret source deep in the Unknown Regions, other captains clamored upgrades for their warships, only to be denied as military-grade crystals were in short supply. Only the most prestigious and important vessels were allowed this advanced weaponry, along with the Order's highest ranks.
Smaller point-defense turrets and missile emplacements served as complements to the heavy weapons, being able to track and destroy smaller and more agile ships. Both starboard and port sides of the stern featured standard turbolaser batteries, while heavy turbolaser turrets and an axial defense turret were located at the bow. The ships turret firing control center was located at the aft, protected underneath the larger rear portion of the ship. Multi-spectrum sensor towers were located near the primary command bridge, and aided in target acquisition.
>The good starship ISV Venture Star from the movie Avatar is one of the most scientifically accurate movie spaceships it has ever been my pleasure to see. When I read the description of the ship, I got a nagging feeling that something was familiar. A ship with the engines on the nose, towing the rest of the ship like a water-skier? Wait a minute, that sounds like Charles Pellegrino and Jim Powell's Valkyrie starship.
There's plenty of math to go over if you want to, you tedious faggot.
>>64878467 >Basic physics for one. In a world where they still needed an SLS type launch system to get into orbit to dock with the Endurance, they somehow manage to fit the energy densities required to escape a planet with much larger gravity wells (twice) with a one-stage ship the size of a minivan. That's just basic inconsistency in the premise of the film. What you have written here is not related to the Endurance. I asked you to explain why it is "retarded" and you have failed.
>Two, the basic propulsion structure of the Endurance makes no goddamn sense. The propulsive force of the "ring" of box containers providing large amounts of delta V is being transferred to the central "command" ship via tunnel which can most aptly be described as a hinge point for the whole goddamn thing to come apart. It's clear you've not remembered the film, or how Endurance worked. Be better.
>>64881716 Are you serious with those links? That Ranger thing alone was retarded as fuck, leaving the planet without much trouble and with vertical lift-off capabilities that came from nowhere. I wonder where all the fuel came from. Didn't see a giant tank attached to that thing. It was as realistic as your typical Star Wars spaceship.
>implying the space magic needed to get the lander and ranger into orbit from a larger gravity well is present in the same universe where an SLS type launch vehicle is needed to get the ranger off Earth
>>64882086 Hard sci-fi doesn't really work in movies, though. when somebody watches a movie the expect to see some interesting shit, like explosions or charming characters. But the more explosions or charming characters you put in your film, the less room you have for the actual sci-fi. and I really just wanted an excuse to post that pic
Avatar is in no way a sci-fi and if someone out there actually believes in that I don't know what to say, not even our actual current military would lost to a bunch of blue space cats that wipe their asses with leafs
>>64882317 See these tanks? These are the propellant tanks. Wanna know why they are round? Smallest surface area for a given volume so it uses the least amount of material and it also has no corners and therefore no weakpoints that could be problematic due to pressure.
>>64882400 It's pretty crazy, if anything, 2001 has become more believable over time. For the longest time HAL was considered the biggest stretch in the movie - a computer that can understand speech and respond in real-time? As if! Now with things like Siri around that's literally reality.
I remember hearing somewhere that James Cameron mentioned Another planet in the Avatar universe with life called Beowulf (in the Sirius star system). Though this one has only had unmanned visits by probes because the same technology used to get to Pandora that takes 6 years would take almost 20 years to get to Beowulf.
Hope if this is true, he doesn't fuck up its presentation.
>>64871874 >Pocahontas Smurfs in space >Somehow more valid as science fiction than soap opera in space
Get fucked. Avatar had almost no substance. The overwhelming majority of people went to see it because it was a visual spectacle. Watching avatar for anything else is like going to a fireworks show to take a nap. You're fucking doing it wrong. Nobody went to work and told all of their friends to see Avatar because it was a well written cinematic masterpiece. They told them to go see it because it was really pretty (Which I'll admit, it is)
>>64875263 >Going with some sort of FTL travel would have been more realistic
>At the far end of the structure is the mirror shield, which protects the ship from the intense light of the beamed power laser from Earth. This mirror is only a few molecules thick, but reflects light efficiently enough to prevent incineration of the habitable section of the starship. When acceleration is completed, the ship is rotated 180 degrees so that the mirror shield faces forward. The shield performs another role, acting as a multilayer interstellar debris shield. Although intense magnetic fields are used to deflect stray gas molecules, the occasional dust grain requires a physical barrier. The shield is in multiple layers, spaced one hundred meters apart. Impact of a debris grain (traveling at a relative speed of 0.7C) with the first layer of the shield causes vaporization into a plasma. The spray of plasma particles strikes the second layer, and the impacts cause spalling from the back of the second layer. These particles are stopped by the third layer. A fourth layer acts as a backup in the unlikely event that something gets past the third layer. Once cruise speed is reached, this shield is detached and moved by small thrusters thousands of miles in front of the ship to improve survivability if a larger particle of debris is encountered.
>>64883742 >Once cruise speed is reached, this shield is detached and moved by small thrusters thousands of miles in front of the ship to improve survivability if a larger particle of debris is encountered.
The original post said go for quality and watch Avatar. The key words here are QUALITY and WATCH. The overwhelming majority of the science is explained in out of film material.
If a film can't explain what it needs to within the contents of the films themselves and needs to rely on external sources, then it has already failed.
For example. >>64883742 Where the hell is this in the film?
A movie needs to be able to stand on it's own and give information to the viewer in a clever and interesting way without boring them to death or sounding condescending. Avatar doesn't do either of these things. At least not as well as it could. The majority of the film is just acting for the sake of showing off Cameron's special effect magic.
Avatar is not good science fiction. It is on the exact same tier as Star Wars. It's a fantasy action film.
>>64884508 A movie is not only proper science fiction if the science is explained in detail in the movie you mongrel. Do you know how much time that would take away from dialogue and character building and plot development scenes? The science is there. The spaceship is extremely realistic for a sci-fi movie.
Not the same dude, but I'm sorry man, I don't agree with you at all, it's not a sci-fi movie. All this hard science that was showed here didn't matter a bit in the end, the "spaceship" was on screen for ten seconds.
Let's say that in middle production James decided to say fuck it and actually remake Pocahontas, he would have to rewrite the script only a little bit, or not at all.
>>64884753 So the spaceship could have been a hot air balloon because it was only on screen for 10 seconds? No. I disagree. If the different elements in a sci-fi movie are based on realistic concepts it makes the whole thing more engaging and compelling. All the gunships in the movie were designed so they could actually fly if they existed. They weren't just designed to look cool. I appreciate that and to me that gives the movie more gravitas.
I'm not saying that everything needs to be explained in detail. I'm saying everything being explained in detail outside of the film doesn't make the film sci-fi, and that the film fails if it needs to rely on outside material to get it's lore across. I'm also saying that the film needs to be able to explain enough on it's own in an interesting and engaging way.
A good movie is self contained.
Avatar is not science fiction. It's science fantasy and action.
You know what's really retarded about the space battles in Star Wars? The distances. Modern fighter jets engage each other from hundreds of miles away. They see the enemy on the radar, fire a missile and a couple minutes later the missile hits the enemy if he doesn't initiate proper evasive maneuvers. Old-timey dogfights are a thing of the past. But the super high-tech sci-fi spaceships in Star Wars are always really fucking close. Their guns are pretty much the guns airplanes had in WW1, just instead of metal bullets they have blasters. Why no heatseeker missiles or something like that?
It was Dance with the Wolves/Pocahontas/ Ferngully in Space with the " evil " greedy white corporations against the good Forstchildren.
Honestly in a better world they would in Avatar 2 what happened on Earth after the Unobtanium delivery stopped. With Millions dying because the Industry got a major stepback and medcine based on it couldnt be produced etc.
Just because one Cripple wanted to go full Furry phantasy and fuck Catwomen.
>>64871874 >floating islands >tree goddess connected with all living things Avatar is even more offensively magical than Star Wars. At least there it's only a couple people in the universe with what amounts to minor psychic powers.
Avatar's minimalist space ship doesn't make it any more realistic than Star Wars. In the Star Wars setting, there has been a space-faring civilization for countless thousands of years, while Avatar is only 140 years in the future. A Star Destroyer's design makes plenty of sense in the context of a setting where space travel has existed longer than the wheel has in our world.
>>64885126 Star Wars has no development at all. Based on the Lore they use teh same technology they used like 10.00 years before. The Idea that there is almsot no progress at all is ridiculous interms of science and Sci-Fi. But Star wars is just Fantasy in Space.
>>64885126 The rocks float due to the ore within them. The rocks are located within a magnetic field that interacts with the unobtainium ore inside them which makes them float.
And the planet is like a giant brain with tree roots as synapses. The planet itself is considered their goddess which is not too far fetched if it's like a huge conscience that one can connect with in a certain way.
>>64885221 To me it does matter. Knowing that the science in a science fiction movie is actually there and thought was put into it and experts helped designed is great to me. You may not care about it if it didn't directly matter to the plot but to me such background stuff is awesome. I liked that all the tech the humans used during the final battle could BE. The mechs weren't just designed to look cool for the action scenes. They were designed to be functional and realistic. I like that.
>>64885603 Simply No and especially not in the Star Wars Universe where constant Wars and People with " magical " powers try to get Control is the Standard. Which would always boost scientic research. Instead its almost frozen in time.
Star Wars needs to be totally simple so that you can use the same Formula over and over. A developing Star wars Universe would actually take the authors and writer to think instead of " Its Jedi against Sith ! Again.... "
Thread replies: 155 Thread images: 30
Thread DB ID: 440977
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the shown content originated from that site. This means that 4Archive shows their content, archived. If you need information for a Poster - contact them.
If a post contains personal/copyrighted/illegal content, then use the post's [Report] link! If a post is not removed within 24h contact me at firstname.lastname@example.org with the post's information.