The movie’s rich-hued palette alone is a jolt from the start, and the action scenes have an alluring, entrancing kinetic vigor and texture, displaying balletic gracefulness and dazzling rapidity along with closely-textured compositions in depth, surprising pictorial imbalances, and angles that are as expressive as they are surprising.
>>64702306 I dunno but I do appreciate how all the locations looked and especially the lightsaber effects.
Up until Episode I they were doing the lightsaber effects the same way then II and III they changed them, I liked the skinnier lightsabers and almosy more pale at sometimes in I as opposed to the fat glow of II and III.
It's not surprising that the same people who attack the prequels are always unversed in real film or anything artistic, and that the people who praise the prequels (Zizek, Paglia and Brody) are always literate, educated, and versed in real film.
The fact that everyone points to Plinkett as the authority on why the prequels are bad speaks volumes. Mike Stoklasa is one of the least artistic people on the planet - he can't process movies outside of the conventions of Hollywood films, his approach to narrative is tempered with the same surface-level requisites listed on tvtropes.
Any complaint that people have about the prequels illustrates a weak grasp on film. Their sensibilities for 'good dialogue' in what is intentionally pulp comes from bad pulp, ie, the original Star Wars, the only pulp they've ever seen. They would similarly view any homage-driven art film and miss the entire point.
Lucas' only mistake in the prequels was doing something daring, original, artistic and literate, not realizing that the manchildren conditioned by the original SW trilogy to loathe anything cerebral would lash out against his cinematic risks.
>Well, what about Revenge of the Sith? You say it's the greatest work of art, in any medium, created in the last 30 years. It’s better than... uh, Matthew Barney or Rachel Whiteread or Chris Ware or Peter Doig?
>Yes, the long finale of Revenge of the Sith has more inherent artistic value, emotional power, and global impact than anything by the artists you name. It's because the art world has flat-lined and become an echo chamber of received opinion and toxic over-praise. It's like the emperor's new clothe —people are too intimidated to admit what they secretly think or what they might think with their blinders off.
TFA has much better characters, which makes it more entertaining to watch. Overall plot, the prequels are better than TFA since they knew how it was going to end. The details get equally messy as TFA, but the creation of Vader is way more interesting than DSIII could ever be.
In comparing the two, I'd rather have people properly discuss the flaws of TFA than praise the prequels, but some people are still on the sugar rush of a new Star Wars movie.
>>64703213 >I just wish TFA would have more original environments and less deserts, forests and shit we can find in our planet I agree with this. >Just use more CGI and less practical. Practical effects are boring I disagree with this. Dagobah was shot on a sound stage and was entirely practical. I'm sure future installments could do something similar.
>>64703336 >The Cuck Awakens This is the caliber of shitposter we share the board with. No effort, no wit, no subtlety. Just pimply teens, foaming at the mouth and drunk off their first exposure to true anonymity
TFA COULD have been alright if it had had anything close to an original storyline. That is what fucks it. I'ts a competently made film for the most part but it doesn't have anything really new in it. It's a Disney remake. John Carter, which is a hundred year old story and practically the first star warsy universe has more visual flair in it. Disney fucked JC before it came out by fucking up the publicity. The CGI characters in JC shit on the CGI characters in TFA from a great height.
You will probably dismiss this post as contrarianism if you don't have a counter argument against the visual quality of Tars Tarkus or Sola and the depth of character they have.
>>64703316 You can't properly discuss TFA until 5 years after the trilogy is finished. You haven't been able to properly discuss the prequels until recently because retards immediately start spouting memes about Jar Jar and midichlorians.
>>64702306 Wow, that scene was bullshit. Rather than Obi-Wan joining Qui-Gon to defeat a lone Sith assassin right then and there in the open, like the Jedi are supposed to do, they just make a run for it like a bunch of bitches and allow Maul to continue working against them. Lucas clearly wanted a final stand-off towards the end of the movie, with bullshit circumstances where Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are conveniently cut-off from each other. But why include a scene like this then, that could have made that final battle redundant? This kind of stuff is why the prequels are irredeemably bad.
>>64703909 f you use the word "contrarian," you're literally an idiot. It's a concept invented by idiots with reddit sensibilities who are too fragile to deal with criticism of mediocre media that has widespread appeal.
It's a troubling manifestation of millennials' mental weakness. Seriously, the only people who would even entertain any "argument" involving the concept of being "contrarian" are weak, lazy idiots who can't deal with criticism substantively.
If it bothers you that much that people criticize mediocre mass-marketed work designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator, like Transformers, The Big Bang Theory, pop music, etc., you should find a safe bubble and stay there. Or kill yourself.
>>64703992 Sorry to interrupt your thesaurus-ridden, rambling excuse for a paragraph
But I think you're getting worked up over nothing. The "arguments" you attempt to raise are not relevant to my post at all. So I'm going to politely ask you to refrain from replying until you wipe the dribble from your chin and develop some basic reading comprehension.
>>64703930 Their job was literally to escort Queen Amidala to Coruscant to report on the invasion of Naboo. Obi-Wan jumping down to help Qui-Gon defeat a random assailant that they don't know for sure is a Sith (killing Sith is not part of the Jedi's job, btw) would compromise that mission. But hey, it's okay that you didn't understand a 17 year old movie made for children. There's treatment for you available if you have the strength of will to seek it.
>>64704398 only trolls and memesters call the prequels masterpieces they're ambitious movies that fail because of various factors (awkward dialogue, poor casting, too much cgi, etc), while TFA succeeds in its mediocrity
i prefer the former, but they both are pretty bad to be honest
>>64704448 Ok, it doesn't look like you're trolling or trying to fit in with the epic meme
So, I need you to write down the plot of the Phantom Menace, as best to your ability. The factors leading to the conflict, why the characters make the decisions they do, and why you felt this movie was necessary and why this story needed to be told in order to get the ball rolling for the Star Wars universe as we know it
It's a rainy Sunday, I certainly have nothing better to do. So I'll wait.
If you want extra credit you can apply the above prompt to TFA as well. Keep in mind "because $$$" is not an acceptable answer. Memes will be disregarded and no points awarded.
>>64704719 People complain about TFA moving too fast and yet I don't think there's a single unnecessary line of dialogue in ANH. It moves damn quick but it doesn't feel like an ADD Marvel movie line TFA
The archetypes of good and evil are pretty well drawn form the start, then George makes great use of various 'shades of grey'. Qui-Gon's a bit of a gambler and a eugenicist, Kenobi's a little dull, Anakin's a chipper little Satan, etc.
George has a startling, somewhat British Imperial vision of what it's like to arrive in the midst of foreigners.
The aliens are truly alien beings in terms of ethos, not guys just like you and me who happen to look different (a la Malick and Abrams).
What do practical effects have to do with the quality of the film? People complain about Lucas being fixated with visual, but to me it seems like fans are the ones completely obsessed with them. You want realism in a fantasy film, and that seems almost completely counterintuitive to me. Star Wars is the exact type of film that should have an overabundance of cgi. If the story isn't compromised by it, then what's the harm?
>>64705108 >implying TFA was a generic ADD action blockbuster that was highly derivative and masturbatory of the original trilogy and relied on nostalgia to get nerd points from manchildren and "le geeky girls and guys xD" who have literally never seen anything Star Wars related but recognize Darth Vader from Big Bang Theory. With shitty performances of Ford, Fischer, Ridley, Driver, Gleeson and fucking John Williams of all people. How shitty must a movie be that John fucking Williams pushes out a shitty score.
The shit of episode one: Young Anikin, Natalie Portman, Jar Jar and Gungans in general, cringe-worthy CGI, debatably racist aliens, and debatably the midichlorians. The good of episode one: pretty much everything else The great of episode one: Ian McDiarmid's Palpatine, Darth Maul, and Ewan McGregor. If you're willing to look past these flaws, what you've got is a worthy prequel. At least the prequels tried something new with the series, despite their flaws.
>>64705051 They don't turn Kenobi into a Mary Sue is what I'm saying. He's a great character, dedicated to what he thinks is 'Democracy' and so on.
In the first movie, we see what he's like as an apprentice, he can't think laterally, he doesn't suspect the Trade Federation initially and he can't anticipate his master's thoughts in gambling on the boy. This could have been played for laughs so that everyone would get it, but it wasn't really. It's subtle.
In the second, we see that while Kenobi is still calm under pressure, he uses that to his advantage. Anakin contrasts with him because he's younger.
It's really only in Episode III that we're supposed to consider Kenobi's failures in making use of the most powerful force user in history. He was out of his league as an adopted parent, and like everyone else he didn't suspect Sheev or even seek to criticize the Senate. He doesn't understand why Counts like Dooku would rebel from the Senate, or what he had in common with his old master. You get the sense that George respects Kenobi's moral consistency, but ultimately admires Qui-Gon and Count Dooku, or any mature rebel from decayed social customs.
>>64705980 What about midichlorians makes them shit? They're not powerlevels, and they never were. It's just a dude explaining why people can use magic to an 8 year old boy in a more civilized age with a greater understanding of the universe.
>>64703022 >Lucas' only mistake in the prequels was doing something daring, original, artistic and literate, not realizing that the manchildren conditioned by the original SW trilogy to loathe anything cerebral would lash out against his cinematic risks.
Literally the funniest thing that's ever been on 4chan
Simple ways to drastically improve the Prequel Trilogy:
1. The Jedi Order is made up of about ten to fifteen individuals (basically the Council + Obi-Wan and Anakin is now the entirety of the Order).
2. Darth Maul survives Episode 1, and takes Saruman's place in Episode 3, being executed by Anakin.
3. Anakin is significantly older in Episode 1, roughly Luke's age in Episode 4.
4. Jar-Jar is a more serious character, similar to Tonto in the Lone Ranger. He is a softspoken native who leads our heroes through the harsh forests of Naboo.
5. The Clone Army are not all clones of Jango Fett (he doesn't appear), but rather is an army composed of clones from a selected group of "perfect soldiers" with strong soldier genes.
6. The battle in Episode 2 is significantly smaller. Anakin duels Dooku, Obi-Wan duels Darth Maul, and Padme is help captive by the Seperatists. The arrival of the Clone Army hastily ends the battle.
7. Episode 3 ends with Anakin left on Mustafar, assumed dead, and Padme preparing to give birth. This helps preserve the twist in Episode 5.
8. Yoda doesn't pull out his little laser sword to fight Dooku or Palpatine. Dooku is fought by Anakin, and Palpatine never fights anyone.
9. Grevious doesn't cough incessantly, he is a fierce warrior who acts as a foreshadowing of Vader. He is strictly honor-bound, refusing to execute the Jedi but instead preferring to duel them one-on-one.
10. The Obi-Wan/Anakin fight is much shorter and more believable. They duel on the banks of the lava river, eventually making their way to the river's edge where Obi-Wan defeats Anakin and leaves him to die.
>>64706087 That's exactly it. The Force is magic, and knowing the inner workings of the magic will only hurt said magic. A big factor involved with what makes a good fantasy plot is how much the audience knows. While Star Wars is science fiction, the Force is very fantasy inspired.
>>64707409 They knew they were being tracked, they rushed back to the ship before they were confronted. It's the only reason they escaped, if Qui Gon hadn't seen and destroyed the tracking droid Maul would have confronted them in Tatooine and killed them both probably.
>>64705347 Natalie Portman was pretty good, I liked her. The CGI is okay once you accept that it's going to look like a kid's movie.
Darth Maul was my least favorite thing about TPM. The guy has no charisma, you can tell it's not an actor, it's just a martial arts guy in makeup. The moment where he shows up during the final battle is so cheesy, with him facing down and looking up menacingly.
>>64707704 >The guy has no charisma, you can tell it's not an actor, it's just a martial arts guy in makeup. But he's the only guy who looks good in any of the prequel fights. He makes it look stylish as fuck, swizzing around and force throwing shit around as he goes.
>Natalie Portman was pretty good, I liked her. She gave a fuck in this film because it was her breakthrough, and she was still young enough to be fuckable.
>>64707774 >But he's the only guy who looks good in any of the prequel fights
I'd credit that more to the fight in general, choreography and writing etc. And I disagree, the only part I like about that fight (besides the setting) is McGregor is at the end after Qui-Gon dies, when he gets all brutal and direct in his style, it reflects his emotion and actually creates some story for the fight for a moment.
>She gave a fuck in this film because it was her breakthrough, and she was still young enough to be fuckable.
I never got the impression she's phoning it in throughout the trilogy. She always sells it, even when there's not a lot to work with.
>>64706710 >9. Grevious doesn't cough incessantly, he is a fierce warrior who acts as a foreshadowing of Vader. He is strictly honor-bound, refusing to execute the Jedi but instead preferring to duel them one-on-one. Why not continue using Maul then? Maybe in 1 or 2 episode Obi Wan mortally wounds him and that forces Sheev to test his Darth Vader suit prototype. Once Anakin's done for, Sheev uses the perfected version to resurrect him.
>>64709632 He was basically there to prevent the Queen (or her supposed 'decoy') from pleading the case of Naboo in the Senate. After Maul fails at killing the Queen, she is able to present herself at a session in which Chancellor Vellorum is replaced with Palpatine.
The lingering question is... If Palpatine (as Sidious) had succeeded in killing the Queen, how would he have proceeded?
Did Palpatine tell Maul to concentrate on killing Qui-Gon because he was a greater threat than the somewhat less inventive Kenobi?
If the queen gets killed off and the TF occupy Naboo he uses sympathy votes to become chancellor.
If the queen makes a case he uses sympathy votes to become chancellor.
He basically rigged the game so he wins no matter what.
He probaly prefers the queen dead since he has more control over the situation and (as we can see from the following movies) he wants the TF to grow stronger so he can eventually create the separatists.
I'm surprised more people have not made a fuss in recent times over how the prequels were changed from their original cinematic version when they were released on home video formats.
There are some pretty big differences, and the Phantom Menace is the one that gets hit hardest. The original theatrical version of The Phantom Menace has never been officially released. It had very different color timing, different audio, a puppet Yoda, and myriad of other smaller differences.
>>64702306 >E1 >visually appealing I'm sorry, but you are wrong. The over use of CGI ruined the fucking movie. And of course Lucas's lack of good direction. And shitty actor/actress choices. And the hundreds of plot holes. MIDICHLORIANS!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>64710410 The force awakens had less stuff that overtly bad compared to the prequels, but that was overshadowed by the fact that it just felt completely soulless, even compared to the prequels. It's like it was written and directed by an algorithm rather than a human being. Han Solo shouldn't have been in the movie and took way too much screen time that could otherwise have gone toward developing the characters.
It was a marvel movie with a Star Wars coat of paint.
>>64706710 >7 to preserve the twist in E5 the opening scroll of ROTS should;ve read like "Amadala has been kidnapped by the evil DARTH VADER. Obi-Wan Kenobi, grieving over the loss of his student, Anakin, is in pursuit." Every generation should enjoy being BTFO with "No, I am your Father."
>>64703931 Why are we still here? Just to suffer? Every night, I can feel my script... and my ideas... even my characters. The saga I've lost... the world I've lost... won't stop hurting... It's like they're all still there. You feel it, too, don't you? I'm gonna make them give back our past."
Plot >a trade dispute has led to a diplomatic crisis on Naboo, Jedi are sent to solve it, these are all the details we are given, except that the crisis is being manufactured by some asshole in a robe >unfortunately one of the jedi sent was a mentally handicapped old man named Qui Gon Jin who was incapable of acting rationally, though we are led to believe otherwise >jin decides to visit the gungans because he's a huge bioshock fan, and takes jarajar with him because he knew he'd need him for the plot later >rescues the queen who the bad guys want to sign a treaty >they escape from the worst blockade in existence (this is key right here, and why the republic didn't care about the invasion, the bad guys blockade was so shitty nothing bad was ever actually happening on the planet) >forced to land on tatooine because the force awakened >qui gon concocts a brilliant scheme to bankrupt a junk dealer who pissed him off and get his own slave >it works >they go to coruscant so sheev can be made chancellor >they go back to naboo and qui gon tries to get thegungans wiped out by forcing them to fight an army of battledroids >some more shit happens, nothing important really >obi wan decides to train anakin to honor his life partner's dying wish >the end
This movie was necessary because fuck you pod racing.
someone just needs to do a thorough analysis of the actual shots and compare Lucas style prequel shots compared to ep. 7
i want to say lucas tended to spend a lot more time on wider shots that established the full environment and avoided all the quick cuts and pans that JJ loves, but that is just relying on my shoddy memory
>>64706710 >1 Make no sense. Especially with what's implied in the OT. >2 Lucas actually regretted killing Maul in TPM. That's why he brought him back in TCW and he's a very decent villain. >3 Ruins the point Lucas was trying to make. I didn't agree with it but after watching the documentary and rewatching TPM, I understand his choice. >6 You know it was suppose to be just Anakin vs Dooku? But the grand style of the battle was something Lucas always wanted to show in Star Wars. Read the novel to ANH, it was suppose to be a grand dogfight but technology was limited. >7 I'm tired of this. Nothing preserves the twist in 5. It's EVERYWHERE in pop culture. I had my nephew saying "I am your father" and he didn't even know where it came from. I mean you have Tiny Toons and Toy Story 2 making these jokes. >8 Why? They were always intended to be master swordsman. Always. Technology was so limited during the 80/70s >9 Watch TCW. As Grievous gets shit done but he has some serious psychological problems. >10 The fight is just as long as Luke vs Vader.
>>64714094 Oh, that wasn't at all what I was implying. No Sir. I had quite a few friends who felt thoroughly bummed by TFA's "cheap fanservice". And while I see their point, I for one felt well entertained. I think you CAN feel reasonably entertained by this movie without either praising it to the skies and back or disregarding each and every positive point about this movie and hating its guts. No, I agree that at some points the references and the fanservice were quite bothersome. Funnily enough it was more the small "wink wink, geddit?"-moments that bothered me (like Finn rummaging through stuff on the Falcon and finding Luke's stupid "training ball" thingumajig) than the plot that borrowed so heavily from ANH that one critic famously declared it a "glib facsimile".
But do I have to like the prequels because I don't regard TFA as some sort of "elder god-tier salvation movie"? FUCK NO! Ep. I sucked. It sucked fuckin major donkey balls. It SUCKED!
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