>>64689270 I understand that but to do that while at the same time they're talking about whether or not your sister was stabbed or shot first then raped seemed pretty fucked up. >>64689253 This probably makes the most sense though.
It was literally a wild cougar. The police found her body before anyone knew she was missing and took advantage of the situation to frame Steven Avery for murder so they didn't have to pay him millions of dollars. Case CLOSED
>>64692889 >I'm also convinced Bobby and Scott Tydach had something to do with it
This. They alibi each other and are familiar with the location. The ex-boyfriend was the only other possibility. I think he/roommate deleted messages or something, cover-up. So many possibilities, shame they couldn't pursue them before/during the case
Evidence for guilty >Teresa blood found in the back of the car >spots of Stevens blood in the car >bullet found with Teresa's blood >bullet matches the gun owned by Avery
Evidence for not guilty >Key found in plain sight yet only after the 7th search, by none other than the cop that was deposed >Teresa's dna not on her own key. ONLY Stevens dna found >contamination of DNA sample forced to be used >Not a single fingerprint on or inside the car >no blood or DNA of Teresa found in the garage >no blood or DNA of Teresa found in the home >no blood or DNA of Teresa found in the bed >evidence of bones having been moved prior to the first burning source at the Avery home >car not destroyed using their car crusher
>>64693346 I think the cause of death was at the hands of Avery. This is because the main points that lead to Stevens innocence are mainly location based. No blood or DNA at the home or garage, but he could have killed her somewhere else
>Teresa is murdered somewhere near the Avery property by either the ex bf Ryan Hillegas or Bobby Dassey and Scott Taydech, after she leaves photographing the car. >She is beaten and shot, and transported inside her rav4 to to an area (gravel pit) where her corpse is burnt inside a burn barrell and smashed to bits. >If Hillegas killed her, he deletes incriminating voicemails from her inbox, and aggressively focuses search co-ordination near the Avery property. >Colborn finds the Rav4 and checks licence plate, confers with Lenk. >Lenk uses his knowledge of the Avery case file to retrieve the blood samples. >Colborn and/or Lenk, believing SA is responsible and to guarantee a conviction, moves Rav4 and remains to the Avery property whilst SA is away. >Colborn and/or Lenk spread remains from the burn barrell at the location of SA's bonfire. >Colborn or Lenk tell Theresa's cousin to check the corner of the Avery salvage yard, and to take photos. >To fit the narrative, Colborn and/or Lenk place keys in trailer. >To subsitute for a lack of physical evidence, Colborn and/or Lenk find a spent .22 bullet on the property, smear with remnants of Teresa's DNA, and place it in the garage. >Special investigators interrogate Dassey family members. >Kayla and her friends whip up rumours about Brendans involvment after his autistic behaviour at the birthday party, and this is relayed to the special investigators. >Special investigators zero in on Brendan and coerce a story out of him. >If Taydech and Bobby killed her, they realise their opportunity with the investigation honing in solely on SA, testify aggressively against him, as well as giving each other an alibi.
>>64690910 People keep saying this stuff but it's weak as fuck. >muh sweat DNA If the police have gone to such lengths to plant evidence is it hard to believe they could find some sweaty items and rub them under the hood of car? >muh burn barrel I think it's already obvious the police moved certain items, so why not Teresas belongings too? How is this damming evidence? So he was seen putting stuff in there? It was HIS burn barrel. Guy liked burning stuff. >inb4 "like cats" >inb4 "like raped corpses "
>muh *69 So he asked for the same girl as last time? Big deal. Lots of legitimate reasons he might dislike meeting new people given his 18 year wrongful incarceration. And she thought he was creepy and so didn't answer the phone, so he *69 , she obviously went out there willingly. Evidence she was creeped out by a low IQ redneck is not evidence that he killed her. >muh talked about rape dungeon and burning bodies he was in prison for 18 years for a rape he didn't do. Probably did have some dark thoughts at that point. Plus who is the soure of this 'evidence'? Another convicted felon who might have any motive (including getting paid ) to say this stuff. Most of this stuff seems to becoming from prosecutor "I am the prize " Kratz anyway. It's weak as fuck. Please tell me the piece of evidence that was left out that is convincing evidence of Averys guilt. Steve I mean, if anyone thinks Brenda n was guilty then they are as dumb as him.
Does everyone forget the police recording when the cops found a pile of his shoes and say something like "we should take one of these shoes. Any unsolved burglaries we need?" While they laughed. They obviously had it out for him
>>64694495 he called her, he insisted she come and take that photos and nobody else. she complained about him at her work, she said she don't want to go there at averys property cause she is weird as fuck.....now, nothing of these facts proves nothing, but raises many doubts don't you think?
The FBI coming in with blood evidence within a few days when it should have taken monthspissed me off. Steven was probably going to be found not guilty until that point. It goes to show that, yes, the whole debacle started in the 80s when Steven had an altercation with a cops wife, and it would be silly for the entire law enforcement to defend some guys wife decades later. But all the law enforcement are going to defend the law enforcement because it casts doubt on the entirety of the police and law enforcement. They're not just going to admit that they plant evidence or frame people etc. They're supposed to be the good guys, hard working family men to protect and serve. They can't let that image deteriorate no matter how little connection they have to the initial confrontation. So the police officers, while maybe not directly being involved like Lenk etc, would defend their institution, the sheriffs would defend it, the FBI would defend it etc etc. It's all entirely fucked up.
>>64694602 >he called her Because he worked with her >he insisted she come and take that photos They worked together before >she complained about him at her work, she said she don't want to go there at averys property cause she is weird as fuck ...on the day of the crime she knew where she was going and her co-workers knew where she was going and you make it sound like he forced her to come to his place.
>now, nothing of these facts proves nothing, but raises many doubts don't you think? Yes, but so do many other things (ex-boyfriend just guessing her username and password, Bobby Dassey and his weak alibi, Colborn finding the vehicle before the car was actually found)
>>64695361 80% at least. As much as people who think he's guilty like to assume he was fucked from birth like manitowoc, it's clear those 18 years effected him. That he didn't outright want to tear Lenk and Coburn in two is either very uplifting or very unsettling, depending how nihilistic he feels deep down.
At any rate, they should go to jail. If Allen was a serial killer instead of a rapist, then those two would be responsible for every death and could be charged with negligent homicide. I don't know if there's something like that for rape but I don't know how anyone could feel safe with those two in charge.
>>64695483 They seemed determined that Avery killed him before anything ever started. They weren't willing to consider anyone else did it. They were desperate to lead the investigation to Avery and away from anyone else (them)
>>64693346 >Key found in plain sight yet only after the 7th search, by none other than the cop that was deposed Not just deposed but stated to the public by law enforcement as having no involvement in the searches other than providing equipment. They literally lied to the public about it.
I've been on jury duty. The majority of jurors make up their decision almost immediately. The rest of the case is simply just noise to them and just going through the motions to get to the point where you vote
Then why was the blood covered bullet just lying there on the floor? If you shoot someone in the head at an unknown spot, even if it is in the woods then it becomes very hard to find the bullet again, if it is stuck in her skull I don't see anyone cutting it out. Also if he had found the bullet again then surely he would've cleaned off the blood and his prints would be on it cause according to police that is how the key was cleaned, by an idiot.
Their only alibi was each other so yes that raised a flag for me. They never found out who the stalkers was who was leaving behind voicemails did they?
Also years will tell cause usually people who commit murders and this def didn't sound like an accidental murder, they took their time to act in violence on the girl, but usually there is a chance that they will kill someone else perhaps even years and years later cause they got away with this one. In the 18 years SA was in prison the other guy committed 2 rapes. So time will tell.
>>64695483 The guy with the hat felt strange to me because he was acting in this overly enthusiastic >I'M IN CHARGE HERE NOW shtick that I have had seen quite a few phonies do when they wanted to prove to other people how good they are. Just feels strange for some reason.
>>64695735 >be Yuropoor >hear about this show and the petition around NY >watch it in 2 days >think it's a well-done documentary about a fictional story and think it's funny how many people fell for the petition >wiki MaM >Steven Avery is actually a real person >everything about the documentary is real
>>64695937 It doesn't help that it's his ex, not his boyfriend, that's leading the charge.
He doesn't even seem that fazed about her disappearance, either. You can be sure I wouldn't freeze my ass looking for her to that degree, especially if I'm the ex anyway. I'm surprised this didn't raise any alarms during the documentary.
>>64695964 The same thing happened to me. I thought it was a fake documentary in the style of true detective to make people media aware. >those cartoon characters are real people, this shit is completley not made up what the fuck is this?
>>64695987 >It doesn't help that it's his ex, not his boyfriend, that's leading the charge. That's the weirdest part. The way he was playing "good guy rescue team" and organizing stuff... when he's just her weirdo ex who hates women. Seriously creeper vibes.
Yeah, two seperate police forces might get together to stitch you up for no reason whatsoever. Risking their jobs when they've got a guaranteed paycheck and pention regardless of what happens to any other form of government they may or may not be connected with.
>>64696086 >Risking their jobs when they've got a guaranteed paycheck and pention regardless of what happens to any other form of government they may or may not be connected with. The case made it possible for law enforcement personel to be made personally liable for people they wrongfully sent to prison. That was a BIG deal.
The entire thing with HOW they found the key is fucking hillarious. >the first time we looked at it the key wasn't there >then it was there So a few days later the guy who will personally have to pay millions of dollars in damages if avary stays out of jail happens to find the key?
>>64696240 Yeah and coincidentally it was found by the guys who wanted to see him in jail. This entire thing is so unbelievably constructed and those cops are so comically evil. If this was fiction I'd probably argue that the cops are too comically evil and the justice system is too comically incompetent.
>>64696197 >will personally have to pay millions of dollars in damages lol no. Where did you get that idea? The county was going to have to shell out. Their insurance (the counties) was not going to cover them.
>>64696279 Exactly. Like I mentioned before I thought this was all fiction. The shit these guys get away with is just un-fucking-believeable. How is Colborn able to call in Teresa's license plates when he was "not" looking at the car? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0xY5onKE8A
>>64696311 Okay. But the point still stands. How are incompetent do these officers have to be if they can't find a fucking key in a trailer on the 4th search?
>Thinks its a big set up >This detailed plan to pervert the course of justice >Hey Guys who should we have find the planted key, and should we put it in an area where it would be realistic that we might have missed. >Nah give it to John, he's the one in trouble anyway, and put it in plain sight.
I don't know what would be more retarded, setting it up doing that, or believing that a team that are planting dna onto a bullet fired from a suspects gun and doing all the other shit, would just walk past a spot and drop a key from there pocket and have some knob head find it.
>>64696327 Those two came over as some kind of gay couple. I expected them to start making out. It's like something from south park. But maybe they were just stressed out, who knows. It was weird and creepy.
>>64696426 Shit like this happens all the time. This time there just happened to be some documentary team around to film the entire absurdity. They put in no effort because they knew they are going to get away with it and nobody expected a documentary to pop up ten years later on netflix.
Even without a documentary, police forces are still liable for courts to look at investigations years down the line, they have to document everything, where they found it and all that shit. Shit like this doesn't happen all the time.
People looking for an excuse to call the justice system inept and police corrupt. Thats something that happens all the time
The series literally spelled out in a thousand different ways that the police were corrupt, incompetent, and acted in a manner that could be logically concluded that they fucking framed their own citizens.
>>64696534 >they have to document everything, where they found it and all that shit. Yeah, going through the motions. This case is special because there were people doing a documentary about it. Stuff like this happens ALL the time where nobody calls out law enforcement on their bullshit and nobody points cameras at them. All the "documents" just go into some fucking storage where they rot. You are either naive as fuck or wilfully ignorant.
Kratz is a scumbag. He spent months trying to convince that Steven was the murderer. The country finally got their man, they finally got Steven back behind bars. Their job is done. They just used Brendan to secure Steven. But now Steven is back behind bars, they were still hellbent on sending an innocent kid to jail for life despite getting their man
>>64696534 >>64696584 It's human nature. If it is possible for something to be done and gotten away with, good or bad, it's not a question of "will they?" but rather "when?" and "how often?". IF it is possible for the police to get away with something like this, then it's been happening. To prove it hasn't would be to prove it isn't possible without being caught.
I just watched the series and after some googling I do think that Steven killed her. It's Brendan that really fucked himself over and I was convinced he was gonna walk free or at the very least get another trial. His imprisonment was the most fucked up part of all this.
>"Brendan, what else happened? To her head. TO HER HEAD. Brendan? What else? What else? What else? The head. To her head, Brendan. What happened when you walked up to the trailer and raped her and stabbed her? You stabbed her. You stabbed her. You raped her. Brendan? You raped her. What happened then? What happened Brendan? The head? Come on. Come on. The head. Brendan? What happened?"
They sent every knife Steve had for testing. The lab technician admitted in court that nothing she tested (except that one bullet fragment that was suspiciously found months later) had evidence of Theresa ever being there.
>>64696742 Well I'm sure that's just one isolated incident of police over enthusiasm. There's no reason to question any other suspicious and flagrant actions committed by the law enforcement agency. It's best to have a continued discussion on whether these guys are guilty based on the evidence supplied to us by the police.
>>64696975 because the poor are represented by the shittiest free lawyers available with no checks on whether you were adequately represented. The USA is a pay to play legal system.
On the other side of it you have people that are flagrantly guilty getting off on technicalities because most police departments are retarded enough to fuck at least one thing up and get reasonable doubt for a clearly guilty person.
the guy with the motive, murder weapon and who's dna places him in a car with the victim. Not to mention her possessions were burned in a barrel by him, which he would have only been able to do if he had access to her dead body
Stop watching netflix shows and trying to be reddit detectives, it's cringey as fuck
>>64697207 If this was fictional it wouldn't be a problem but seeing as people are actively trying to get his murder conviction overturned then it stops being funny and starts becoming retardedly dangerous
>>64697510 If lobbying can get GMOs banned or marked without having any evidence of their harmful effects then I think lobbying can get a guilty man freed. Don't underestimate the power of lots of liberals shouting about something, often government will cave just to appease the populace.
>>64697571 >If lobbying can get GMOs banned or marked without having any evidence of their harmful effects then I think lobbying can get a guilty man freed. Don't underestimate the power of lots of liberals Obama is pro GMO and he's a liberal. What are you on? If anything authoritarians are the problem. Left or right.
>>64697621 It's leftists that petition against GMOs because of fraudulent studies and believing that natural=good unnatural=notgood. If you look at the crowd that shows up for these marches it's 90% liberal hippies who are notorious for their pseudo-science
>>64697571 >gets cucked by liberal monsanto shills like clinton and obama >gets cucked by big goverment >BUT M'AM IM A HOT BLOODED REAL AMERICAN PATRIOT >votes bush top kek You are a cuckservative. Trump 2016.
That was one of the most unnerving parts of the series. The guy is almost retarded, he's intimated by cops, doesn't really have a grasp on reality(his biggest concern after being arrested was missing wrestlemania), all of his statements are inconsistent a word that he doesn't even understand, he is literally told what to draw, and not a single shred of physical evidence whatsoever.
>>64697811 There's way more problems with GMO than cancer rat studies. They are just a way to monopolize shit that shouldn't be monopolized in the first place. There isn't even evidence for higher yields with GMO. But it makes a fortune for GMO companies who can resell their patented crops over and over. It's just scummy business, that's what it is. So have fun chugging down your HFCS and sticking it to the hippies.
>>64697870 I want to know how the fuck a jury came to a guilty conclusion in Brendan's trial, and I want to know how the fuck they can live with themselves. Even if it was just one or two jurors bullying their way to a guilty verdict, they should be ashamed for bowing to pressure when a boy's entire life is on the line.
>>64695968 I sat on this rabbi's jury (guy on the right) in 2013. He was accused of beating his daughter. The evidence presented by the State of Wisconsin (represented exclusively by women: the ADA, the detective, the social worker; all women in pantsuits) consisted entirely of two photographs, one of a popped zit, the other of a red mark. Fully half the jurors thought that was evidence of a beating.
It took us two days to convince four of the six voting guilty that a burst zit and a rash aren't evidence of a beating. Even more complicated than that was getting them to understand the judge's instructions (and one of these people was a neurologist). As he was charged, even if the rabbi had intended to cause harm, but failed to succeed in causing harm, then he would be not guilty.
Only at the end of the day did the two hold-outs change their votes, because they didn't want to spend any more time in court. I actually told them about jury nullification and mistrial, that they didn't have to change their votes if they felt strongly about his guilt. They just decided "fuck it" so they could get to the weekend.
The jury system doesn't work (although I feel we returned the right verdict in the rabbi's case). Many people are simply not smart enough to understand the law, or committed enough to stick to their guns.
>>64698280 Well, you're fucked that way, too. Ken Kratz knows the law pretty well. Look at what he did. Look at what those sluts did in my case.
I do like the Norwegian system. Three judges: one pro, one from the legal community (so maybe a defense lawyer, maybe a prosecutor), and then a trained citizen judge (teacher, mailman, whatever; goes to night classes in law at University of Oslo for a year before taking judgeship). They all have to agree for a guilty verdict.
>>64698372 Sure, but Kratz definitely wasn't impartial here. I like to think people that get elected judge know what they're doing (though the judge from Brendan's trial kind of already contradicts that).
>>64697443 This. I just can't believe the jurors made a unanimous decision in convicting Brendan. The guy was basically an 8 year old in a 16 year old's body. There was literally no evidence against him except the statement he was clearly coerced into giving, which made absolutely no sense given the existing evidence in the Avery trial. The refusal of the appeals court to hold a retrial, and the supreme court's refusal to even consider the case is absolutely shameful. And they call it a 'justice' system.
>>64698280 Because then it's just the accused vs. the state. As flawed as the peer jury system is, in a case such as Steven's for instance, he would not have been better off with the judge or some state appointed professional jury deciding his verdict.
The jury system is bad, but the alternatives are not much better.
>>64698869 Do American's not get paid for jury duty? I've never been called up but I think here in the UK you get your travel expenses paid as well as compensation for days off work. Even presiding over a murder trial is better than having to go to work.
>>64698807 I wouldn't say the jurors were bored or childish, but few had any clear understanding of the judge's instructions, and when put in a difficult position, they certainly opted for the easy way out.
>>64698913 That's the fucked up part, and why they always go for confessions. Confessions or other witness statements are considered direct evidence, whereas fingerprints and DNA are circumstantial.
>>64698869 That's not true, actually. I don't know if you noticed the part where I mentioned one juror was a neurologist. Another was an IP attorney, and I myself am an economist. And jury pools are drawn from voter registration rolls, unless civic engagement is somehow proof of stupidity.
I am at the risk of contradicting myself here, as I did just complain that most of the jurors were unable to understand the judge's instructions. I think it's that the law requires an understanding of logic that most people can't really grasp even if they are otherwise intelligent.
>>64693346 >>Teresa blood found in the back of the car which is actually helpful to Steven's case. Why would he put her in the trunk of the car to drive her from the front of the garage to right behind the garage? She was killed, loaded in the trunk and drove to the quarry to be burned by whoever killed her. Is Steven Avery dumb enough to then drive her remains back to his house to put in the burn pit for police to find?
>>bullet found with teresa's blood That should have been ruled inclonclusive because the tech fucked up the control sample. If she fucked up that bad who is to say she wasn't handling Teresa's remains before doing the test on the bullet and that had contaminated the sample?
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