If you have this many people calling you out for your shit movie and you have to release this many responses to criticism you have made a bad film. Good films don't release a bunch or responses or BS like that.
>>64653009 Disney is not interested in soul in their products anymore. They want money, and they know how to get it. See Frozen, the most inoffensive and friendly movie of all time and also one of the most successful.
>>64649943 To go forward we must go backwards so we can go forward to the same exact spot we are in now so in order to move forward backwards in a forward interpretation of the same story backwards so that forward is the direction instead of backwards because I am an unoroginal cunt who can't go forward and has to go backward to provide the illusion of going forward. -Jew Jew Abrams
>>64649943 >Knew that people would complain about this >Did it anyway Why, though? The complaints are legitimate Abrams, you fuck, and if you knew it was going to be a problem, why did you do it anyway? Are you so lazy that even knowing your bullshit's going to get called isn't enough to deter you?
>>64653499 You don't understand. In order to move forward you must move backwards to allow yourself to move forward when moving forward is unattainble to facilitate the impression of moving forward by going backwards to go forward. -Jew Jew Binks
>>64653735 I think he knows it really doesn't matter what he says at this point, as long as it's somewhat comfortable. He knows he's not gonna direct the next one, so he's probably just like "well i did the best that i could".
>>64653499 >let some deviantart kiddie fuck with how lightsabers, x-wings and stormtroopers look and ruin their iconic designs just so Disney can sell new toys (We are doing this because it's meaningful and special) >add in some nig and make the protagonist a woman SO PROGRESSIVE >make a capeshit quality fanfic movie that anyone who even remotely liked Star Wars is guaranteed to hate >throw in the old cast to taint their characters and forever ruin their memory >watch the casualbux roll in
The Phantom Menace is about a kid from a desert planet leaving in order to train as a Jedi before blowing up a large structure to save the day and receive an award in a large ceremony at the end. The Star Wars story is cyclical; Lucas called it rhyming. It's perfectly fine to dislike that, but anyone who pretends that the prequels were bastions of originality compared to TFA is fooling themselves.
>>64653499 >>64650082 You don't get it. The film is itself an homage from beginning to end. Him acknowledging it isn't meant to deflect, it's to say "yeah, that's the point. You can like that or hate that."
I want to listen to his commentary track when the movie comes out on video. Say what you want, JJ is pretty honest about how his movies are perceived. The Star Trek commentary was full of self-deprecating lenseflare jokes
>>64655068 Star Wars is only so heavily discussed because it has heart. If it becomes mass-produced capeshit it loses the magic. Lucas knew this, and tried to create unique aspects within everything he did.
>>64655263 Allow me to play doubles advocate here for a moment. For all intensive purposes I think you are wrong. In an age where false morals are a diamond dozen, true virtues are a blessing in the skies. We often put our false morality on a petal stool like a bunch of pre-Madonnas, but you all seem to be taking something very valuable for granite. So I ask of you to mustard up all the strength you can because it is a doggy dog world out there. Although there is some merit to what you are saying it seems like you have a huge ship on your shoulder. In your argument you seem to throw everything in but the kids Nsync, and even though you are having a feel day with this I am here to bring you back into reality. I have a sick sense when it comes to these types of things. It is almost spooky, because I cannot turn a blonde eye to these glaring flaws in your rhetoric. I have zero taller ants when it comes to people spouting out hate in the name of moral righteousness. You just need to remember what comes around is all around, and when supply and command fails you will be the first to go.
Make my words, when you get down to brass stacks it doesn't take rocket appliances to get two birds stoned at once. It's clear who makes the pants in this relationship, and sometimes you just have to swallow your prize and accept the facts. You might have to come to this conclusion through denial and error but I swear on my mother's mating name that when you put the petal to the medal you will pass with flying carpets like it’s a peach of cake.
>>64655316 The prequels themselves have no heart. It doesn't have any characters, any humor, any originality. It's just nerdy world-building and horribly stilted scenes. At least TFA feels like it was written by a human being.
>>64655386 Heart comes from good characters. World-building, if you're being cynical, is about selling toys and novels about obscure characters, or giving the illusion of depth. A film with heart actually makes you feel something.
>>64655177 >he doesn't have any ambition to improve Do you seriously think Abrams had any real creative control over the film? That it was supposed to be a remake was obviously something that Disney's PR people had chosen to do, possibly far before JJA was even thought of as director. TFA was only made to rebuild the old Star Wars fan base, that's been fucked in the ass by GL for years, and was pretty openly sceptical against the Disney buyout. All Disney wanted was to show the fans that they'll do what the fans want, and that they know what Star Wars is about, or at least WAS about, before those god-awful prequels.
>>64655522 How we perceive TFA 10 years from now depends entirely on where Rian Johnson takes the new characters. Kylo Ren has the potential to be the best character in the entire franchise if done right.
Why do people keep pretending that Star Wars is a film franchise? I am not shitposting when I say that it's primarily a toy franchise with really 100 million dollar advertisement campaigns disguised as films. Every decision since Return of the Jedi has been about how to best sell toys. Every character inclusion and design. Why wasn't Han Solo killed off when that was the original plan? Dead Han Solo doesn't sell toys. Why didn't Luke turn evil like originally planned? Evil Luke doesn't sell toys. Ewoks? Toys. Pic related, although slightly out of date now.
>>64655865 So when i watch a movie i'm not to judge it based on its cinematic merit but rather i must create within me a place, a safe place, in which any aspect, no mater how nuanced that is either shown visually and or telegraphed audibly or a combination of the two, can go and be pampered and to have me come to /tv/ thereafter and say,
"although the plot was bland and was peppered with more holes than a sponge, and even if the characters were one dimensional with one being a blatant Mary Sue, the film itself was masterfully crafted and looked brighter than all the other movies."
tl;dr so when i pay my money for a gourmet steak and cheese sub, i should look for a reason to like it even if it taste like shit?
Vinceposting is too obscure to hit the big time, you have to put a lot of effort in for low reward and it has a high barrier to entry. plus not many people have seen TD2 so it's hard to jump into it easily.
>>64649943 >having an ugly cunt as the lead >breaking every rule regarding the force and its uses/users >having a whinny little bitch as the main villain >make a film to pass your agenda about femicunts/diversity >only answer critisim about the whole fucking film being a rip-off
>>64657538 >>64657538 they're trying to soften the blow the second one is going to get but there's nothing they can do. should have simply made a good movie. Avatar had a plot that was boring as shit but Jim went out of his way to find visual and audible cues that would soften people, so what you saw was fucking epic, even if a part of you was already bored with it because you saw the story done better somewhere else.
Jar Jar was more interested in making a piss poor copy using a five year old child and crayon.
J.J., the sequel to a movie should not be an homage to it. That is making the same movie twice, it even has the same name. It's repetition.
Just because you had the task of introducing new characters does not mean it's acceptable. No one wants your version of A new hope, they want a new Star Wars movie.
Don't let ticket sales go to your head, J.J., brand recognition and marketing are responsible, no one is running out of the theaters begging their friends to see it too, mostly they just shrug and say it was OK.
>>64658492 You're comparing the arcs of established characters to the beginnings of an arc for new characters. There's no proper comparison for TFA because there's no other series that came back nearly 40 years later with both the original cast and new additions, with a focus on the new additions. Honestly. you'd have more of a case if the new characters were just this film's surrogate for the old ones, but that clearly isn't the case. Kylo Ren is very different from Vader, Finn is cowardly unlike Han, and Rey isn't whiny like Luke was.
My point is that the basic plot structure for most sequels is often identical to the plot structure of their predecessor.
>>64658616 >Honestly. you'd have more of a case if the new characters were just this film's surrogate for the old ones, but that clearly isn't the case.
New characters. Same shit.
The fact that it's a sequel to a movie made long ago isn't as significant since the property had movies around ten yrs agoaround and exposure in all sorts of media. Nothing can compare with the property in that sense.
But thematically, literally, it accomplished the same as a paranormal activity sequel. New people, in the same situation as the last movie.
I guess an even more adequate comparison would be the Jason series. TFA accomplishes for the story the same thing every Jason sequel did. It happened a lot in the past, does it mean it was good? Or acceptable now?
>>64658616 Different Anon, but: >Plot structure is often identical to the predecessor >Examples being Terminator 2 and Aliens Excuse me, but at what point was Terminator about taking the fight to the machines, seeking out the cause of Judgement Day and putting a stop to it, instead of just trying to survive the Terminator, and hopefully destroying it? The plot of Terminator, was about escaping a looming menace, and coming to terms with the future. Terminator 2, is about having accepted the future, and taking a proactive approach against it. Please, do tell me how Terminator 2 and Terminator are "identical".
Same with Alien and Aliens, where the first film once again is trying to survive an overwhelming, looming menace, while as Aliens is taking the fight to them.
I'm not even talking about characters here. Rey is the Anti-Luke who despite her capabilities keeps running away from danger, while Luke, despite his limited capabilities started running towards danger once he lost his home, to help fight to good fight.
The only similarity I can see between Terminator and Terminator 2, is that Judgement Day is a threat. The only similarity I see between Alien and Aliens, is that Aliens are prowling, and must be put down.
Please, do enlighten me though. It's been a while since I saw these films, maybe they are identical.
This is the typical bullshit artists give to defend their crap.
Finding an euphemism for what you did doesn't make it any better. You can call it rip-off, rehash, remake, or 'to go backwards to go forwards', it's just a shitty rehash where everything feels forced to either a) make the situation remind of what it was in ANH, even if that destroys any progress of the story in 30+ years, or b) present some spectacular effects and marvel-like action scenes on screen.
>>64658775 Are you a plot babby? Wanna know why plot details are often spoiled in the introduction to old novels? Because the people who wrote it understand that the plot is just an excuse for character interaction. In fact, many great films and novels don't even have plots. No one who read Proust talks about how great is stories are, they talk about his characters.
>>64658843 >Alien Go to a big alien planet, discover an alien, crew gets taken out one-by-one, Ripley survives and defeats the alien by blasting it out of an airlock >Aliens go to a big alien planet, discover aliens, spaces marines get taken out one-by-one, Ripley survives and defeats the last alien by blasting it out of an airlock It's like poetry, it rhymes.
>>64660005 But the people character interaction was shit. Hell, I would have loved it if they would have toned down some of the fight scenes for a bit more character development, some of them, like Han's debt collectors' were completely unnecessary and weren't ever brought up again. It all felt rushed, as if there was meant to be more about the people but some high ups wanted to push in as many laser fights as they could.
>>64660162 The character interaction was spectacular, particularly the scenes between Han and Leia, which was able to articulate the status of their relationship without being obvious. The dialogue was generally much better than it was in the original trilogy, and the scene you're referring to does what the Greedo scene did so spectacularly well without also turning Han Solo into a murderer. The scene doesn't need to be brought up again; it's meant to inform the character, not become a focus of the narrative.
Are you literally fucking retarded? Do you not realize that if someone wanted to watch that if people wanted a movie about people sitting in a room talking, they would make that movie? Every writer has their strengths, but to disregard plot to such a trivial sense is even more demeaning than someones legit criticism that jj just really didn't try.
>>64660083 There's a major thematic difference between getting there on an expedition, and getting there on a reclamation mission. The entire purpose, and tone of what's going on is different.
By that logic, The Empire Strikes Back is the same story as The Attack of the Clones. >Big bad poses grave threat to main characters (constant assassination attempts/attack on Hoth) >Leaving to search for truth (Luke to Yoda, Obi-Wan to Kamino or whatever it's called) >Big bad gives chase to main characters (Jango vs. Obi-Wan, Empire vs. Millenium Falcon) >Main characters get captured (Obi-Wan, Everyone but Luke) >Big bad fights heroes, one of the heroes losing a body part (Anakin's arm, Luke's hand) You're right in that it's poetry. It does rhyme.
But there is a difference between rhyming Hero with Zero, and rhyming Hero with Hero.
>>64660537 >Literary fiction does not focus on plot as much as paraliterary fiction. Usually, the focus is on the "inner story" of the characters who drive the plot with detailed motivations to elicit "emotional involvement" in the reader. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literary_fiction#Plot Plot is literally for plebs. Kylo Ren's inner turmoil, Rey learning to let go of Jakku and seek out Luke, Finn finding something to fight for. That's the narrative of The Force Awakens, not blowing up Starkiller base.
>>64660786 Different Anon. A) That is a funny quote. It makes it sound like the characters are the only form of "inner story" that a book can have. It's almost like it's from someone who never read Science Fiction. B) What the "plot" is, is very subjective. Some people would say the plot is just the series of events, others would include the meaning and reasons of those events. You're right if you're just talking down to the first part of that, but there have been great stories written about the rise and falls of empires and other things, that revolved entirely around the "plot", which plot happened to be about the hows and whys. Acting like characters are the quintessential core of storytelling ignores a huge chunk of literature.
>>64660628 The new characters and various plot differences keep it from being a remake. One could easily call The Phantom Menace a remake because the basic plot is nearly identical to that of A New Hope, but people aren't as aware because they changed the Death Star to a federation ship, which is enough of a change to fool the casual viewer.
>>64661043 I mean you're right, to a point. The Phantom Menace still had a lot more creativity in the way it was going about it, even if it was the wrong direction.
The point I'm trying to make, is that there is such a thing as the suspension of disbelief. Hero rhymes with Hero just as much as Hero rhymes with Zero. If you're not paying much attention to the words, it sounds just as right. But if you're aware of what just happened, when a song rhymes like that, it just takes you out of the experience, and that is one of the most important, core things a movie has to be able to provide. It needs to keep you in the moment.
The Prequels rhymed a lot, but they rhymed under the hood. It isn't until you start taking it apart until you see how everything is the same.
In the Force Awakens, you have so many things that just right out the box pull you out, nudging you "remember that?". Millenium Falcon flying through a bigger ship (Star Destroyer/Death Star 2), the Starkiller Base, the new Cantina, Han Solo's very New Hope acting, towards the new characters.
The only scenes where I could say I was fully invested, without feeling like I know exactly what this is trying to mimick on the first watching, was the squid part with Han's bigger ship, the opening, and some of the action sequences.
Everything else seemed like a direct rhyme with the same words.
To be fair, I'm pretty certain that 8 and 9 won't be similar at all to 5 and 6, so I'm not so worried about the similarities between 7 and 4. If they felt after so many years they had to try and settle things back down with something familiar, in order to have a base to work away from, then I'm fine with it. It will just hopefully be the weaker part of the new trilogy when it's all said and done.
>>64661039 >Acting like characters are the quintessential core of storytelling ignores a huge chunk of literature. It actually doesn't. What distinguishes Shakespeare from the histories he borrows from is characterization. Early myth focused heavily on plot, as does modern genre fiction, but literary fiction has always thumbed its nose at the concept. Plot is a framework for characterization, and using it as anything else is how you get bad supermarket fiction.
>It's almost like it's from someone who never read Science Fiction. A, science fiction is shit. And B, Star Wars isn't science fiction. There's no science in Star Wars.
>>64660628 Yeah, rhyming hero with hero isn't even rhyming, it's just putting the exact same word over again. I liked tfa better than the prequels don't get me wrong, I was just disappointed with its unoriginality. I would've been happy if they replaced star killer with anything else, everything else was forgivable except the blatant rehash of the death star.
>>64661307 What distinguishes your so called "hero and zero" rhyme from a "hero and hero" rhyme is completely subjective. The prequel trilogy told similar stories using the old characters of Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi. The Force Awakens tells a very similar story using mostly new characters. How you define "originality" depends entirely if you're conception of original means world-building, or new characters and concepts. I was willing to accept the plot similarities in TFA because I understand that those similarities have always existed in the series, and the fact that it's more similar in that regard is a perfectly fine tradeoff for new, interesting characters.
>>64661567 >it's just putting the exact same word over again. The Force Awakens isn't the same word. Similar plot, but the characters and their relation to one another isn't the same as A New Hope. The film literally doesn't end with another Throne Room award ceremony like The Phantom Menace does.
>Make something that's shit >Well it was intentionally that way because of [half-baked reasoning] >So you cannot argue that it was shit I'll never understand this. Such extreme poetry was a shit choice, and wasn't particularly necessary, as he implies. It was an easy and lazy way to invoke the original movie. It results in people leaving the cinema with no doubt in their mind that what they watched was definitely "Star Wars", It felt like Star Wars, but there wasn't much meat to it. It was an empty copy.
>>64661766 They serve the same plot function. And we're arguing the merits of one difference over another. Again, this is subjective. I can list all of the similarities between A New Hope and The Phantom Menace, but there's no way to determine whether or not they're worse than they are in The Force Awakens.
>>64649943 >I meant to make a nostalgia flick with little to no respect to the source material >I knew people wouldn't like it so that just inspired me to make sure and put out mediocre work anyways instead of, you know, actually try.
Yeah, /tv/ sure got rekt on this one.
Sad thing is, an actual star wars film would have made just as much money as this garbage and Disney is fully aware of it.
>>64661345 >A, science fiction is shit. And B, Star Wars isn't science fiction. There's no science in Star Wars. A) Well screw you too, pal. B) I didn't mean to imply Star Wars is science fiction, it definitely isn't. But Science Fiction is a great example of fiction that at its core doesn't rely on characterization.
In addendum to A. Most stuff that pretends it's Science Fiction is shit, don't get me wrong. But Science Fiction is to character driven story telling, what a painting is to a sculpture. They have to be looked at differently, they have a completely different way to them. One example would be His Master's Voice, a book in which absolutely nothing happens, and it still manages to be interesting.
>>64662663 imagine he would have been attacked by the Empire while looking for the droids, then gotten into a spaceship which he pilots, flies on his own to Alderaan, then gets picked up by a freighter, has to fight off some tentacle monsters, then meets Yoda on another planet who tells him that he doesn't need to go back to Tatooine because Owen and Beru were killed offscreen and he then he gets abducted by Vader into the Death Star. He later fights Vader and almost wins and then some guys blow up the Death Star.
>>64662815 Maybe we should wait until the new trilogy is over and they have done absolutely nothing to develop the oh-so-well set up characters of Finn, Rey and Kylo, and people have to admit that everything interesting about those characters, was stuff they told themselves, while their brain was in standby mode watching an empty film. Then we can play the Sheev card. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAM6FycAyqA
Why does people pretend to like JJ Abrams? Why do some people think he correctly adressed the critics on TFA when he clearly didn't explain shit, fixed anything or made valid points ? Why are some people blind to JJ abrams being a autistic motherfucker with minimal talent ? Why is this allowed?
>>64649943 How beat down do you have to be when you come out to the press, admit you did a shit job, and then try to walk out like you won a victory over the haters? I almost feel bad... Then i remember that he decided to give female yoda character a light saber that should have been gone for ever and he will never give us the explanation about it, and it is all still cannon
>mfw my favorite sci-fi is now going to become as open ended, convoluted and unfinished as LOST
"You see JJ (my apprentice) you sometimes have to look, and indeed, move backwards to go forwards. Do you know the biggest one I've done? The Dark Knight Rises? Perhaps the biggest one anyone's done, in truth? I looked back to the silent era, such as Fritz Lang's Metropolis, but at the same time, the film was a revolutionary epic, on the subject of Occupy Wallstreet (which did not happen in the silent era, you understand), so indeed, to go forwards, and approach a topographical contemporary subject, I in fact looked to the past, to Fritz Lang and Metropolis, to make the biggest anyone's done since the silent era. That said, dear boy, you should just copy A New Hope." -Christopher Nolan
>>64654919 The mi3 commentary made me cringe at times. You can just about hear tom cruise and Abrams jacking each other off as they comment how "no this scene was all you man!" "HAHA BUT I COULDNT HAVE DONE IT WITHOUT YOU!" "JAY JAY JIST HAS DIS STYLE THST IS JUST MmAZING!"
>On the other hand, it must be satisfying to see his gifts as a director, so long forgotten, be praised. “The Force Awakens” makes it once again possible to think about George Lucas as a man of imagination, of conviction, and (minus Jar Jar Binks) of taste—as a brilliant appropriator rather than an average one. It took a forgery to get him called an artist.
>duh there are references and similarities to the OT, did you think there wouldn't be? >you actually think I was trying to keep it a secret? >idc if it bothers you, it got critically acclaimed and made over a billion in like 3 weeks just like i knew it would because i'm fucking jj abrams
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