Rey is not a Mary Sue, I can prove it.
>malnourished scavenger fights off two men twice her size
Been living there for most of her life and either has fuzzy memories of her early training and/or she taught herself.
>fumbles at first, then suddenly outmaneuvers 2 TIE fighters while flying through a scrapyard and though the inside of a ship
She knows those star destroyers. She scavenges in them, has been for years. and it's not impossible that she has found smaller ships that could still be in good enough shape and taught herself to fly.
>master mechanic that can quickly identify problems with ships she's never flown on
She has probably snuck aboard that ship/found plenty of stuff over the years and studied them. There are ships littered on that planet.
>full on force vision from touching a lightsaber, hears Obiwan speaking
Anakin had something similar, just in the form of a dream. The Force will manifest itself however the hell it wants.
>never used a gun before, fumbles at first, then suddenly starts dropping storm troopers left and right
Force sensitive. They tend to have higher reflexes than most. This is canon.
>Trained Sith Apprentice mind read barely works on her, then reads his mind in return
Force Sensitive. Also, she still probably had some kind of training if not had someone tamper with her head.
>Jedi mind trick on guard out of nowhere
She failed twice. Jedi are myth, but she still knew of them. Also, Kylo was trying to do the same, no matter how differently he was doing it. Enforcing his will on her. It's the same basic principal.
>Trained force user Kylo Ren has trouble pulling lightsaber towards him, but it rockets towards Rey from 40 meters
Sheer force of will. Not to mention when seeing your friend nearly die, emotion and focus tends to come in here.
>100 pound woman bests trained swordsman
He was injured and not fighting her as seriously as he wanted. He wanted her to come with him. She took advantage of that.
Reposting because you guys don't know what a Mary Sue is
The problem with Rey is not that she beats the odds or that she has special abilities. She is just overly competent on a, and this is important, IMMERSION BREAKING level.
We know the the vague rules of Star Wars and and we know the laws of the universe and we know how other characters compare (which is why Mary Sue's are usually fan fiction characters, because they just completely shit on everything that was set in the fictional universe)
Here let me give you an example:
A good skill of Rey is that she's tech savvy. She is a scavenger hunting for scrap parts, so of course she knows how technology and electronic parts work.
What doesn't make sense is that she can shoot her way out of Storm Troopers (who finally appear as competent in this movie) with a locked gun AND without knowing how to actually use a gun, while the Storm Troopers keep missing.
Fin doesn't know how to fight with a Light Saber properly, which makes sense and he got a little better with it when he fought Ren, but it still wasn't enough.
Then Rey picks up the Light Saber and immediately starts fighting like she's been weilding Light Sabers all her life.
Then there's the whole force shit. Yeah the force is powerful within her, but even for people who have a powerful force affinity they need to learn how to control it.
Luke needed two entire movies to become proficient with the force and STILL was too weak. Anakin got a full Jedi training and was STILL too weak to beat Obi Wan.
Rey breaks the immersion here by immediately becoming a force expert simply by closing her eyes for 5 seconds. It's just bullshit.
Then there's the fact that every character immediately loves her.
Han, who generally doesn't trust people, instantly offers her to make her his second officer. Chewie loves her DESPITE NEVER EVEN HAVE INTERACTED WITH HER (leaving aside that Chewbacca is also a character who generally doesn't like strangers)
Leia wishes her good luck even though she doesn't even know who the fuck she is.
Heck even newly introduced characters immediately love her like that weird granny Han introduced the squad to. She immediately cares about her for no reason, while she was also described to be a rather difficult person and even is rather rough to Fin and Han. It's immersion breaking because it just completely goes against what you just learned about the character. But you know she needs to act nice to her, because everyone we're supposed to like acts nice to Mary Sue and everyone who we're supposed to hate is mean to Mary Sue.
This holds true for this movie as well.
Heck Kylo Ren has an inexplicable obsession over her even though he never met her AND he knows that the robot is the thing that actually has the information AND even though it would make more sense to be obsessed with Fin, because he's a traitor.
But that was sidelined because Kylo needed to be obsessed with Mary Sue, because she's the one the universe revolves around.
In general you ask yourself what even the point of Rey is in the movie and why she's in this conflict although she's disconnected from everyone. Yeah there's BB8 but he also only immediately trusts Mary Sue just because. If BB8's goal was to find his master there was no reason for him to follow her. She could've been some Scavenger who sells him for his parts (And you know that's actually what she is, but she goes against her original motivation, because Mary Sue is kind to everyone and everyone loves her for her kindness)
And there's minor shit, like her getting jumped by some brutes only to lead up to a generic "hero saves girl" scene where they met, but instead she beats them herself, making the scene entirely pointless. The only thing that scenes like that leave you with a "what was the point of that?" feeling.
And all this leads to an incredible boring character you just can't invested into,
the reason why you can't invested into Rey is because everything about her just becomes predictable and she can't even go anywhere from here.
In the next movie we already know Luke will absolutely adore her (because she's his daughter, so Luke actually HAS a reason to adore her, but since the rest of the cast does so too, it will feel just like another addition to the Rey fanclub that is completely unjustified)
And she can already galumph over Kylo Ren, she will only be even more overpowered when she receives proper training for Luke.
Of course the movie will need to compensate that by making Snoke an even more threatening villain, but this is already the problem: We already know how the movie's are going to be because "Rey needs to be a badass everyone loves" is actually a universe rule now. It bends around her. The entire movie universe becomes different depending on what Rey will do instead of actually feeling like an universe filled with characters independent from each other.
And it's not like Snoke or powered up Ren will even pose a threat to powered up Rey.
We already know that she's such a badass she will never need help from anybody and if anything she'll storm in to save Luke's and Fin's ass.
All the next movies are just gonna be a parade about how strong and cool Rey is. She will never have struggle that feels real and she will never have any character to her. She's just there to be a wishfullfilment character
You just proved that you didn't read anything what I wrote and that you don't know what the fuck a Mary Sue is
>if I paste my desperate head canon onto the movie the mary sue will go away
For a tldr version think of it like this.
We like heroes because they go through the heroes journey. Rey Does not. Instead She takes the shortcut and her "hero's journy" becomes this:
1. Ordinary World - Life on Jakku
2. Call to Adventure - BB8 stumbles into her
9. Reward, Seizing the Sword - Getting the lightsaber from Kylo
12. Return with Elixir - Force Super Sayn out of no where.
The remaining steps are completely absent from her character. Finn has more of the Hero's Journey than she does:
1. Ordinary World - Life as a Storm Trooper
2. Call to Adventure - Getting caught up with Poe Dameron to avoid being executed for treason
3. Refusal of the Call - Wants off the ship because he just wants to run away
4. Meeting the Mentor - Han was his mentor mostly or maybe Poe
5. Crossing the Threshold - Choosing to go Rescue Rey from "NOT THE DEATHSTAR"
6. Tests, Allies, Enemies - Invading starkiller base and fighting through everything
7. Ordeal - Fighting with Kylo and then getting BTFO
The remaining steps will come in the next two movies i shit you not.
Feels like Rey has three avenues available:
1) Turns to the dark side, either temporarily or for good. Actually establishes a sense of conflict and depth to her.
2) Episode 8 and 9 simply retell episode 5 and 6. She trains with Luke, fights Ren, loses her hand or just gets beat and fucked up like Luke and Anakin were in 2nd episode, comes back with a vengeance and kills Snorkle episode 9.
3) She goes full retard and just smashes through training, beats ren and/or converts him to the light, kills snorkle in episode 9.
Like >>64625800 said, Rey blew her load too early. She skipped out on the sense of evolution, growth and rising from zero to hero. The fact that people have to defend her from the claim of mary sue so often (on -forbes- of all places) speaks to the failure of the writers to not depict her as such. This isn't an isolated case of contrarians accusing her of it.
I'd rather Finn be the heir to Luke because he's set up a lot better with the heroic cycle.
>Rey is not a Mary Sue, I can prove it.
Okay cool, I'm open to this conversation.
>and either has fuzzy memories of her early training
Okay cool, you're an idiot and should be ignored.
>Rey is not a Mary Sue, I can prove it.
>tfw Rey will never have a girlfriend onscreen
Read the prequel book/guide
>She spent her freetime in a flight simulator
>Was taught various things from an older female scavenger
>She was the one to put the upgrade in the Millennium Falcon for pinkblob, which is why she knew about the ship
Exactly our point.
She blew her load in one movie that was supposed to be a trilogy and she was only able to accomplish that by being written as a mary sue who skips 95% of the heroes journey.
The only reason Biggs exists is to establish that Luke is a great pilot but JJ can't even do this much for Rey. Of course this is the guy who's in universe explanation for why R2-D2 woke up when he did was "because I needed him to for plot reasons."
I don't mind that she's a great mechanic, or even that she fixed the Falcon. But she should not be able to fly the Falcon. Luke had real experience and Han wouldn't let him anywhere near the controls.
Not to mention you already have a great pilot in Poe who is terribly underused.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. Even if she is a Mary Sue, I dunno why the faggots on this board get so stuck on it. It's pretty decently explained, and there's plenty in TFA to bag on without ever even mentioning her.
God damn, drop the lightsaber thing already. She's been on this planet for probably over a decade fending for herself, and clearly hasn't done a shit job. It would make sense that she would be better than Finn, and Kylo wasn't even trying to kill her at first he was trying to recruit her until it was too late.
>m-muh bowstaff skills don't translate to m-muh fencing
It's like a natural athlete training for football, and then he just plays a game of basketball on the side. He's not gonna be shit.
There's plenty to shit on without even droning on and on about that crap, I don't know why people on here cannot shut the fuck up about it. She never deflected blaster fire or anything that would require more reflex than she already had.
Still, there's much worse shit in the movie that gets completely glossed over on this board so you tools can talk about your (not)waifu all fucking day. It's like your closet faggots hating on a good looking guy at this point.
Never once did I say I even liked the movie, or Abrams, I just said you guys crying over this bitch over all the other dumb shit in TFA is a fucking joke that's flying way over your heads.
Cry more, faggot.
You don't seem to realize that the problem with a Mary Sue isn't wether or not her unbelievable skills and her shitting over everything and everybody loving her for it being explained or not.
If I wrote a Harry Potter fanfic with a 1000 year old dragon vampire with purple hair that also survived an Avada Kedavra curse and is also Harry Potter's lost twin sister and she's as good in school as Hermione as wise as Dumbledore and as popular as Victor Krum no matter how much I explain how plausible it is, she's still a Mary Sue.
Because the problem with Mary Sue's is NOT that they are competent. Competence is actually a good trait. The problem with Mary Sues is that they make every single character in the movies pointless because they are simply there for Mary Sue to overshine them. Every attempt any other character makes is just there to fail and have Mary Sue show how it's done right. Every side character turns into a cheerleader whose whole life turns around thinking about what Mary Sue is doing. There are bo conflicts, no characters, no plot progression, the entire movie becomes just a huge wank fest of how awesome Mary Sue is. She's like a black hole that immediately centerd every feasible plot on her and just makes it one generic boring mess.
So all the fucking retards saying fucking Luke is a Mary Sue can fuck off. Yes Luke is the hero of his movie. But he's not the sole character that matters or does anything. Han is the badass who flies the Falcon brings them to the princess and is the guy who saves Luke's ass in the end. Leia is the person who iniated the plot and got them out of the Death Star and brought them to the Rebels. Obi Wan is the guy who stopped Vader, taught Luke about the force and ulimately sacrifices himself. Every character has a role, a plot and character development that are completely independent from Luke. In fact Luke was mostly a useless sidecharacter in the movie until the climax where he finally got to prove himself ahero
So all you "b-buh Rey is probably the force reborn and she got her memory wiped and she also trained off screen in a book and everyone loves the MC it's natural she's just like Luke guys" fags can fuck off. Because no matter how much you defend or explain or compare Rey. It doesn't fucking matter. She can be as competent or incompetent ad she wants. What you neef to prove is that every other character in this movie isn't just a sidecharacter in the "Rey is awesome show".
What matter isn't what amazing feats Rey is capable of. What matters is what the fuck she does compared to the rest of the cast
But Fin literally does everything impotent in TFA. He brings the Resistance the map. He shows them how to destroy the Starkiller. He rescues Ray. Chewie and Han do a lot more then Ray too.
I never once posted on this thread, or this board about anything you said lol.
Keep lumping JJ cucks and Rey "bashers(butwereallyloveher)" into two black and white groups, though.
I don't at all disagree that the Rey character is poorly conceived, I just think you guys having a circlejerk about how awful she is all day everyday, with often just as poorly conceived reasons is fucking gross. Why? I've rarely seen anything else from that movie bashed on. You guys literally write pages and pages about how everything in the movie relates to how shitty her character is, and pay no attention to anything else.
The problem here is that the whole "destroy Star Killer base" plot was pretty much a side plot. Although it should be the main focus of the movie it, it was handled like something that just happened in the background. The entire thing felt like it was just a huge setup to create a stage where Mary Sue performs her final battle on.
The characters who were actually the heroes and saved the world were all unnamed guys who did what they did because they are sidecharacters. The main plot was "save Rey" which also became "Rey saves herself and Finn and Han watch how she does it and are completely in awe of her doing it"
Have you ever consideref that it's precisely BECAUSE Rey is such a horrible character and that the movie centers around her because she's a Mary Sue that there are people who think it's a bad movie? Sure there are other things you could critisize, but why should you when the thing that ruins the movie permeates it like a giant black hole and is in your face all the time?
What felt wierd for me is how Finn and Rey became so close in a very, very little amount of time. Did anyone else think it was kind of forced?
Like every other relationship Rey forms in this movie
>Rey tells Han how to fly his own ship for 5 mins
>Rey feels Han is her father figure, Han wants to make her second commander and his daughteru
>Rey doesn't even fucking interact with Chewbacca
>Chewbacca loves her, saves her life, becomes her new partner after Han dies
>Leia also doesn't know who the fuck she is
>Sends her on the most important mission of the Rebellion to finf her own brother instead of doing it herself
Compared to those Finn is the pretty realistic. He at least admits he's just horny
Except that's not the case here, Kylo is comparable to a professional NBA player in your analogy, so >>64629765 is correct in their interpretation and you're full of bullshit.
Hell, sticking with the world of swords, a professional with a sabre is unlikely to do beat a professional with a rapier if they're both using rapiers since the style of fighting is so different between the 2. Lucky me I have friends who were fencers in college and got to see fights like this.
Why are there any cuts between scenes, anyways? Ikr, they're so unnecessary. Let's just sit in the theater for two weeks while they tell us everything that happens off screen.
I also mentioned how Kylo was taking it easy on her, but go ahead and gloss over that like everything else you twats gloss over in favor of your perfect Mary Sue.
Rey is just a reflection of the dominating demographic, those with money to spend and do so thoughtlessly - White women.
>a pretty white girl
>friends with everyone ;D
>total nerd :)
>super smart, tech savvy!
>british accent, just like dr who :P
>beats the bad guy, girl power!!!
>friends with a black guy, diverse!
It took Luke 3 years to get to the point that he pull his lightsaber from 3 feet if he focused on it for 20 seconds (not even hyperbole, this is literally how long it takes Luke to pull his saber in the wampa cave at the start of ESB not even counting him flailing around at first and reaching for it "normally").
Totally makes that she can do it from 50 feet away against and past a trained force user with absolutely no practice or knowledge of the force of more than a couple hours because, what, she's Luke's daughter?
It was written in at the expense of the internal logic of the established universe to trigger a certain reaction from the audience. It's the literal definition of "pandering".
Yeah except when she started fighting back Kylo should have destroyed her the same way Dooku did to Anakin in AotC and Vader did to Luke in TESB when they went all "rargh! Charge!". Even if she was tapping into tons of Force to make up for her extreme lack of skill it's been displayed in both movies I mentioned and the ones that came after them that skill still wins until unless you have such a ridiculously high power disparity that it doesn't matter. Despite Rey being a Mary Sue she certainly didn't do anything to say that she so vastly eclipses Kylo in power that she should have been able to beat him, completely untrained, just by going "Oh yeah, the Force is a thing!"