This movie was garbage but not for surface reasons like that the actors sucked (although they did). as a screenwriter, i couldn't get past the thin characters, plot contrivances, poor structure transfer from ANH, and needless action setpieces in lieu of creating engaging characters. this entire movie is an example of telling, not showing. it is the cardinal sin of screenwriting stretched over two hours
>>64600062 I can't tell if your trolling, but when Rey takes the lightsaber first she gets into all this fucking past/future revelations and at the end a whisper says: 'these are your first steps' or some shit like that. Clearly it's Luke using the Force so clearly he already knew her.
MAX, Let it go. We know it's not fair that this is just as bad but performed better than any of your movies. I'm sure if you had written a Star Wars movie it would have sucked just as much and done just as well too.
>>64599745 that scene was really embarrassing. I know everyone just makes fun of the fact they stood there for like 20 minutes, but more than anything that expression was just so out of place. it's the kind of face you make when you throw the ring into mount doom, not when you climb up a hill in 20 seconds of screen time and see some guy you've never met before.
Begging for a solution for the suffering she has experienced. Full realization of the darkness of the universe, and knowing she is capable of fighting it, but only needs guidance. Begging for salvation in the face of a savior.
>>64600120 you try and write a sci-fi flick with thick characters and we'll see how you'll do on the box office. which is all that matters. (i don't judge that, i see the purpose of hundreds of people earning a lot of cash on the flicks, its reality and hollywood) guardians of the galaxy had a pitiful attempt of character creation but it would be much better if it didnt, that was the first time when i understood what 'hello reddit' really means. the original SW trilogy? just luke and obi wan because of his philosophy, others over the course of trilogy and i mean yoda and vader in particular
>>64600120 >this entire movie is an example of telling, not showing. it is the cardinal sin of screenwriting stretched over two hours Not the entire movie, Rey's introduction scenes on Jakku say everything we need to know without saying one word. In fact, this is so genius, I have a feeling J.J. Abrams had nothing to do with it, and probably fought against putting it in the movie.
Seriously what happened? I really liked Rey at first. She seemed to be really interesting and was really cute when she put that helmet on and just gazed into the desert. Then it somehow all turned to shit the moment she started interacting with other characters.
>>64599745 >I'm a perfect little snowflake who doesn't need a man to hold my hand, I'm good at everything I try almost instantly including piloting a space ship and using the force, I beat a stronger opponent with years of combat experience and training with a lightsaber because I closed my eyes and went into badass mary sue mode, I'm an unlikelable bitch who's only character flaw so far is daddy issues
>>64600873 I think I said something about Rey feeling desperate to belong. Yea I meant that. And I think that's what she's trying to convey.
I'm sure I'm wrong about this most of the time but I take a lack of replies as I'm right and that I said it in such a way that it's pointless to add anything to it and any replies of Faggot or Reddit are people that disagreed with me initially but see that I am in fact correct now they just cant bring themselves to say it but at the same time have no grounds to argue on.
>Finn falls in love with her immediately >Han and Chewie barely give her any shit and give her a fucking job offer a day after meeting her >Leia treats her like her long lost daughter after and hour and entrusts an incredibly important mission to her
Yeah, really desperate
the most instantly liked character in Star Wars history is really desperate to belong
Rey needs help to save the galaxy. She has identified the enemy and the enemy has caused massive destruction. She has faith in a power to save the galaxy from the enemy. She is desperately asking Luke who has left the conflict to pass on his power so she may resolve it. Rey has found her belonging in solving this conflict, and is deeply hoping to find the power to belong in that way.
This board is a place where people insincerely disagree with what they enjoy because it's fun. I enjoy it too but I want to remind redditors it's all a joke.
>>64602016 Actually no, people saying they don't like X are not saying it for the sake of conversation.
Rey doesn't want to belong, she wants her parents to come back for her. If she wanted to belong she would've stayed with that old man Poe gets the map from right at the start of the movie. In the flashback to where Luke leaves Rey on Jakku Rey is holding a mans hand. Who else would that hand belong to other than the guy who has the map to where Luke is?
Rey is an angsty teen mary sue who only decides to help save the galaxy because the script says so.
>>64601768 This all happened to her very recently and every single moment before this has been in isolation and desperate hope for a better future, which has only arrived as the movie begins.
She's visibly amazed and changed by how Finn asks her if she is okay after she wakes him from being knocked out by TIE fighter blasts on Jakku. Those who claim Rey lacks character are faceblind and unwilling to acknowledge acting, almost as if they're reading a script instead of watching the film. There is a great amount of Rey characterization that is shown not told.
>>64600120 LOL. I really never post on here, but as an actual credible screenwriter I think you're an idiot! Pulling vapid terminology like "thin characters" out of your ass is exactly what I love to see from a boasting "screenwriter".
If you'd like I can show some of your Nostalgia Critic fan-fics to my contacts.
Saying 'I forgot what you reminded me of that was actually in the film' is childish. Like you're defending a foregone conclusion. It makes it very easy to assume you weren't paying attention while watching.
>That completely random kiss right at the end when there's never even been any flirting between Finn/Ray
I know it was a forehead kiss in a friendly way but still, you know what they're trying to set up. I hate their dynamic, Finn the bumbling dumb man WHO WAS TRAINED SINCE CHILDHOOD TO BE A KILLER is upstaged constantly by some skinny, half starved scavenger girl who is somehow an amazing fighter despite spending her days digging through scrap.
I also thought it was funny how Finn refused to kill unarmed civillians but had no qualms about chest fucking a stormtrooper with a lightsaber as if he'd done it a thousand times already.
>abandoned in youth >keeps hope and learns to survive alone >is without human connection >is surprised but welcoming to characters who are good in spirit >willing to take risks under pressure due to her hopefulness and learned resourcefulness >surprised and happy with any success she has >willing to connect with hopeful people >loyal to her goals in a way that allows her to wait for the people coming to save her, and once she accepts no one is coming, to embrace her path as a Jedi and enemy to the pain she has witnessed in the galaxy >has the strength to confront that evil face to face, and the faith to believe she can win >and to seek out the legend who has won against that in the past, for knowledge.
Name a scene that doesn't contradict that character arc. Or is this another meme where we pretend a character arc is contradictory to the character because characters are not meant to change?
>"hardened" scavenger character that has had to have her wits about her and mistrust people due to making it on Jakku with thieves and bandits >somehow openly trusting of a random droid and treats it like a kitteh kat even though selling it would guarantee a month of food
>treats randoms like Finn with general disdain and surly and then randomly lights up all goofy like when she realizes she's on "Han Solo's ship" even though she didn't realize it before
To that effect, she called the Millenium falcon a piece of shit before her first choice ship was blown up, so first off she somehow doesn't recognize it, then second off somehow knows how to fix it even though she has no interest in it for whatever reason
>"wants to go home to Jakku and turns down a random job offer from Han" >random change of heart and decides to go on a crazy mission to go find Luke Skywalker after showing no interest prior >for whatever reason the Resistance entrusts this random character they've known for a day with the mission
>>64602667 >"nigger what the fuck i'm the one waking you up the fuck you asking me if i'm okay when you're the fucker lying on the ground jesus man get it together shit of course i am okay"
That's exactly what I'm saying. She's surprised by how this guy is genuinely concerned for her well being when she herself was worried that he had died. She had an idea of what was good that was awakened by seeing someone else who has that same idea. Finn does what he does because 'it's the right thing to do'. Rey has an idea of what is right which is reinforced, to her surprised, by finding people who also know how to do what is right.
Try watching the film without being a sarcastic critic, everyone. You might find it rewarding.
>>64603030 >somehow openly trusting of a random droid and treats it like a kitteh kat even though selling it would guarantee a month of food She doesn't have to trust the droid, she doesn't need anything from it. She just sees a little living thing being captured by something that wants to destroy/sell it for parts, saves it, then sends it on it's way, and BB-8's kind and friendly attitude turns Rey from not wanting to being the droid home, due to learned callousness, into her accepting of the droid for one night, which eventually leads to her nearly accepting 60 portions but deciding not to, in order to save the droid. This is also an early hint at her being with the Force. Oh but there was only one dialogue about this and you didn't pay attention throughout so I guess it doesn't count. >treats randoms like Finn with general disdain and surly and then randomly lights up all goofy like when she realizes she's on "Han Solo's ship" even though she didn't realize it before You mean 'why doesn't she love being on the legendary ship before she knows it's the legendary ship'? Also she is, like you said, reluctant to have faith in strangers. It is in her character to want to have faith, so when Finn cares more about her life than his own, taking her hand twice and waking up after being knocked out to ask about her well being, she finds herself with a person deserving of her hopeful attitude. Meeting good people, she is able to exercise good faith without it being abused. That's why Finn wanting to leave, like a coward, is something that hurts her so much. She though he was a good person who was willing to challenge evil. It makes her doubt that her faith in good is something she can exercise in reality, and she runs into the forest, only to find that there is no amount of running that will save her from the long reach of evil, where she confronts stormtroopers and Kylo.
>>64602718 >but had no qualms about chest fucking a stormtrooper with a lightsaber as if he'd done it a thousand times already. I kept thinking this also. Like, didn't he know people in the army? Turning on his brothers like that can't be easy, yet he seems so willing. That's one of the problems of trying to mess with the formula and say "hey, but what about the stormtroopers, they're human too, right?", because by acknowledging that, you've now effectively put a face on stormtroopers, they're no longer just faceless cannon fodder for the heroes, they're now people that they're killing, it just raises so many questions and moral dilemmas and makes the levity of classic star wars feel a lot more forced and dissonant. It's like they've opened Pandora's box and now have to deal with it, yet they have no intention of exploring it any further.
He was told he was only a stormtrooper, and a killer, not a human He was asked to be a stormtrooper who killed innocents He chooses not to be a killer of innocents, does not fire a single shot against them His commanding officer says that his free will is a problem and he should be reconditioned in order to mindlessly obey orders better, and not to listen to himself He chooses to escape, fires against the army he just left due to their ruthless murderous intent against good people, and who are actively firing with intent to kill against a person who chooses to be good
B-b-b-b-but why does the good guy fight the bad guys? I thought he used to work for the bad guys?!???
Motherfucker, you stupid? American Sniper was nominated for Best Picture like two years ago. And look at all of these superhero films and action movies that are still so popular and how traditional those values are. How the fuck is that leftist? That's as conservative as you can get.
>>64603968 the gist of it is that previously stormtroopers were nameless cannon fodder, this would be like if they introduced sympathetic nazis in indiana jones. It breaks the fantasy. Yes, we get that he's the outlier, but by pointing this out you instantly think that the other stormtroopers might have varying degrees of guilt and regret or hesitation too. Your stuttering isn't necessary btw.
>>64604117 Finn is also a bit of a coward and is beelining whatever way he can to get away from the First Order. Remember he's willing to lie to Rey about his belonging to the Resistance and to abandon her and the Resistance in order to leave the planet and disappear into space. Finn is not a proper decision maker until the end, before then his priorities are only running from the scary TFO and helping Rey. He chooses to not help Rey when he has the opportunity to escape TFO. It's an emotional scene.
In response, Rey pulls something from the pack. LUKE'S LIGHTSABER. And she holds it out to him. An offer. A plea. The galaxy's only hope. HOLD ON LUKE SKYWALKER'S INCREDIBLE FACE, amazed and conflicted at what he sees, as our MUSIC BUILDS, the promise of an adventure, just beginning...
>>64599745 My take was that she was giving it back to him to make him take on his past, to become responsible once again. Luke had shirked and run away from the past - so his unhappiness was more at acknowledging his need to return and fix things. Their expressions were them both knowing that there is a hard road ahead, and they need to make a choice.
>This script is shit >Im too fat for the main movie... >20 years ago I'd uv banged this actress >Is it creepy shes as old as my daughter?.... Nah >I forgot to act, lemme just look constipated >Ah my prostate again >I've forgotten my line. Old, not obsolete... Was that it? >I don't give a shit... >Getting cast as the Trixter was worst decision in my life. Look where it got me. >This beard really fucking itches
>>64599745 It's a fine example of someone who's not a natural actor acting. Everything there has been taught to her in drama school. It's acting that'll suit the mark schemes for drama degrees. My sister's a shit actress in drama school and a lot of the drama people in my University do this too. It's the reason it's usually those who are a bit less social and a bit more strange in real life are better at acting.
>>64605382 >Did I really get in shape and put on my A game only to have my role be a tacky cameo >I can't believe I never got to be in the same scene with Han >oh shit that reminds me that they're going to kill me off in episode 8 along with Chewy since the execs have no use for him without Han >I really should have thought about more than just the check before signing >Wedge was smart to not come back, now they can't rape his character too
>>64608595 Someone who is natural to acting doesn't really need to go through Drama school, etc, they can just do it. Seems simple enough, right? Nowadays, though, if you want to get anywhere and you don't know anyone in the business, you need to first get a degree in drama of some kind, then go to Drama school. It's only then you can get a legitimate agent. Basically you pay a shitload to become an actor, so "struggling actors" aren't really a thing because poorer people are less likely to get involved. Anyway, the real point is that most of the people who have the most influence over you in acting training are directors rather than acting coaches. And these are directors who've ended up working in universities. So what you get is the people who are naturally good actors can take some good tips from whoever's teaching them, but those who aren't really good actors but just get caught up in the idea of being an actor (usually loud girls and annoying gays) take everything their teacher says as verbatim. So when they approach a scene like this, instead of being invested in the character naturally, they have to bring up some emotion that is shown clearly, not subtly. So here, she's meant to be showing "sad" or "generally emotional". A natural actor would give an exhausted, relieved and nervous face in this kind of scene. Best examples of a natural actor most people can understand are people like Daniel Day-Lewis. Generally, it really is people who're older or have more life experience that can be more natural actors, because privileged rich kids doing a drama degree really haven't been through that much, regardless of whether or not they can cry on command. It's why Boyega is more endearing than Ridley in the film, yet he can also be the polar opposite in Attack The Block.
>>64605382 >Train so many youngling Padawans to become epic Jedis, and restore the Jedi order >get to train Han and Leia's children, they are going to be so epic >Rey is still a very young Padawan, but Ben has matured into a fine young man, and his abilities with the force, and with a light-saber are exceptional, soon he will be a great Jedi Knight, although his temper is a bit of a problem >Rey, despite being so young, is so good with a light-saber, I have a lot of hope for her >Now Ben is starting to become a problem, he gets frustrated so easily, and he desires a greater power than the Light side of the force >He keeps asking me about my father Anakin, I tell him he was a great fighter, but his desire for power turned him evil, and his path was a cursed one
skip the whole Ben becoming evil, turning towards the dark side
>My worst fears have come, Ben has turned against me, and says he will fulfill Darth Vader's legacy >He has also tempted many of my Padawans to join him, to join his "Knights of Ren" >Still, many of my padawans are still loyal to the Jedi order and to the Light Side, Rey being one of them >I must protect them, hide them in remote distant planets and have their memories wiped, I have failed in bringing back the Jedi Order, I am useless and I may cause another darkness to overcome the galaxy if I don't act now >I must leave my dreams of restoring the Jedi Orders behind, and I must now retire into a remote system, far away from any prying eyes. I have become a shame to the Jedis, to Obi-Wan, and to Yoda. I cannot bear to look anyone in the face and have them see my shame
some many years later
>Who is this, my neice (or daughter, or completely unrelated), has returned to me >like what the fuck, I wanted to leave the Jedis behind, and she has returned, with my saber >Could this be another hope for the Jedis, or am I going to train her, and end up fucking up again
>>64599745 Trying not to cry from all the emotion. Think about it hes not only the last Jedi hes the chosen one. Its like hearing a rumor Jesus actually existed, Jesus still exists just isolated and you found him.
>>64599745 there was articles out the other day where it literally states what was occurring during this scene, same with some other scenes, either quotes from a book or JJ or some shit. can't remember and cba looking for them.
>>64605382 he clearly knows who she is you fuck tard
>she probably went Sith Berserk when she was little, guards starting attacking her, Kylo and his Knights saved her by killing those guards. This tempted Kylo to the dark side.. Drops Rey off to Jakku. Luke mind wipes them both somehow or some shit, feels he's failed the whole Jedi thing and stays quite.
There's a scene in A History of Violence where viggo has just run multiple miles home because he thought his family were in danger, he bursts into his house absolutely exhausted, the kind of exhausted you are where you feel like you're going to throw up and you can barely talk, there's sweat over sweat and you're taking deep breaths for multiple minutes, only to find that his family were fine, although startled. I got the impression viggo actually ran his ass off before he filmed that scene because he absolutely nailed how someone would look, talk and act after having done that. He wasn't trying to pull faces and deliver lines that matched "my family are ok I was being stupid" because in reality anyone who just ran miles when they're not used to it is going to be showing all those emotions and feelings while being so out of breath they can barely talk.
Rey should have been worn out and tired when she got up the mountain.
The point is if film is about heightened reality characters have to be portrayed in a believable way. Daisy Ridley made all the mistakes the person I quoted made, very few of her scenes were believable. It just seemed like she was blindly following direction rather than understanding the motives behind her actions. It's why her suddenly rescuing BB8 was so jarring and made no sense. Her acting could have informed those scenes and it really needed to because nothing else was explaining why she decided to intervene.
That's what happens when "real world political agenda" perverts "fantasy world fictional story"
>here's Rey showing Han how to fix his ship why? >here's Rey doing crazy flipz and shet with the Falcon why? >here's Rey picking off stormtroopers on her first go with a blaster why? >here's Han offering Rey a job offer why?
what are they trying to set her up for? ultimate failure?
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