>Samuel L Jackson says lightsaber fights weren't up to par in TFA
Is he right /tv/?
Samuel L Hackson doesn't get to comment on Star Wars movies after his terrible turn in the prequels as Mace Windu; the biggest fucking asshole Jedi that ever lived.
Mace Dindu and his shitty attitude is pretty much solely responsible for turning Anakin to the darkside
Also, his acting was shit
>No HE is the traitor, AHHHH
>fight didn't develop through a variety of different sets
>they kept hitting each other for no visible damage, making lightsabers instantly less scary
>fights started and ended based on plot requirements instead of naturalistically
sure son they did a bang up job
Im not sure whether he meant the actors or the characters or both. They looked like kids on a playground swinging plastic swords from side to side. Either way I blame choreographers the most.
Only person who got properly hit was Finn who was fucked up badly he ended up in a coma, in previous movies people lost limbs and could just carry on with their day after a cheap cyborg fix
At least TFA makes the original trilogy's lame lightsaber fights make sense. Everyone who could do flippy spinny shit either died, became a cyborg who never runs or retired to a swamp, and after the last three in the galaxy die everyone else is reduced to flailing at each other like Downs' syndrome patients because the knowledge is lost
the flying space ninja battles of the prequels are a much more appropriate and natural form of combat for a weapon that has a totally weightless blade than the OT's space kendo. There's no use for slow strikes in a weapon that ltierally has no weight outside the grip
That being said, flying space ninjas aren't very interesting ot engaging.
the most enjoyable thing about episode 7 was that they made the lightsaber fights more conservative.
here is what a sword fight in the late middle ages actually looked like
No he's completely wrong actually.
Dumb ballerina bullshit doesn't belong in fucking Star Wars. It felt like wankery.
The TFA fights felt heavy, weighty, and violent, like a real fight would.
Well it makes sense that Jackson would bash the new kids lightsaber fighting considering his character was the greatest saber fighter in the history of the galaxy.
Jackson is aware of this, right? That his character is the absolute pinnacle of saber fighting and everyone else except a select few (who are all dead by the new movie) are just toddlers in comparison?
I actually really liked TPM's fight
there are some dumb parts but all in all I get the impression that they're trying to find a weak point against a Sith with a style they've never had to face
My favorites are the TPM final fight and the final duel at the end of RotJ
the end of RotS is compelling but a little drawn out and flashy
where the fuck do you guys get this shit
even in RotJ, Luke just smashes his saber against Vader's quickly and repeatedly like a light stick until he's beaten down
It isn't a broadsword
Yeah, I'm sure in fantasy worlds they hold off on actually trying to kill each other and perform spinny, stylized, bullshit that would leave yourself wide open to death on a nearly constant basis.
You realize that large blades didn't weight like 50lbs right? A standard longsword is like 3lbs and a larger two hander would be like 6lbs. And you don't move like a slow lumbering idiot using them.
This is a slow motion demonstration even.
Just because a lightsaber isn't in itself, heavy, doesn't mean the combat can't be weighty. It's about the momentum the participant puts into his/her strikes.
I can't believe I have to explain basic physics to someone.
I like the choreography of the prequels (Darth Maul fight is fucking amazing) but I prefer the weighted strikes in TFA, makes the lightsaber feel more powerful as a weapon and gives the fight an added sense of danger
Lumbering, slow strikes simply do not make any sense when speed is in your favor and momentum isn't
You aren't knocking someone on their ass with a strong, heavy sword strike, it's more like a fencer's rapier
>why would Jackson know about the EU?
The what? It's prequel cannon. He bests Sheev in a saber fight, Sheev, the guy who beats yoda, the guy who is too powerful for Anakin or obi wan.
Jacksons character is the best saber fighter.
I was going by the video that I was responding to faggot. I'm aware there are lighter blades but the ones he showed were obviously heavy. I don't think a twig of a girl is going to be able to raise that over her head in any effective amount of time.
No you idiot, it was just shitty acting where they swung so heavy with blades that don't actually weigh much. Those blades weight even less than a zweihander, it's just crap choreography.
This shit in the video is miles better than the TFA fight. Variation of different techniques, use of enviroment, trading of blows, everything.
TFA fight was the worst fight scene I've seen in a decade. No only they were just flailing from side to side, but the worst thing is, it was always one sided borefest.
Kylo is kicking Rey's ass, he has clear upper hand, she cant do shit.
20 seconds of meditation
Rey is kicking Kylo's ass, she has clear upper hand, Kylo cant do shit.
There was nothing exciting, no back and forth, no trading of blows.
>heavy, weighty, and violent, like a real fight would
>plasma swords are realistic
>in a setting with faster than light travel
I hate these Star Wars fans. The only reason why OT fights were slow were because the props kept breaking. Everyone wanted to go faster but the technology didn't allow it.
>TFA brings back drama and tension to lightsaber fights
>they actually mean something in terms of the story and dynamics between characters
>the prequels are basically just the sword fighting equivalent of kids going pew pew pew at each other
Only fucking children and autistics could possibly seriously think the prequels fights were better. They were the best thing in those movies sure, but that's not hard when everything else is such a rancid turd. It's exactly how the kung fu was the best shit in the matrix movies. Flashy and kind of cool but doesn't really mean shit at the end of the day.
You're right, the lightsaber moves on it's own. It's not like it's attached to your weighted hand, arm, and body making you one object with it's own momentum based on how hard you swing.
There are plenty of women in longsword tournaments, they certainly don't have any problems lifting them off the ground or swinging them. Stop talking about things you don't know anything about.
There's a difference between quick and violent, and quick and stylized wankery in a movie that it doesn't feel right in. The prequels were firmly in the second camp.
Go, prequel apologists are the fucking worst.
It cuts through anything but another saber. There is literally no point to trying to fruitlessly apply more force than necessary and given physical constraints it won't amount to much anyway.
Moving quickly is 100% the better option to trying to swing, and a slow swing just doesn't make any sense
look at how fast pitchers can swing their arm moving a 2 lb. object
>There is literally no point to trying to fruitlessly apply more force than necessary
Luke violently knocked Vader to the ground in RotJ by mercilessly and violently applying huge amounts of momentum to his strikes. Are you telling me the chance of knocking someone off balance and causing them to open up wouldn't be useful?
Christ, you're an idiot.
>Did you notice how fast he was striking?
Yes, and it was violent and heavy strikes. Not some fairy boy, kung fu, unnecessarily stylized bullshit from the prequels. Just raw force and anger. It's glorious.
Someone on 4chan who argues that the prequels "weren't that bad" out of nothing but a purely contrarian perspective from the popular culture in an attempt to appear more knowledgeable than said culture. In the end, these people are not as knowledgeable as they claim, and in reality are bitter fedoras who cling to anything which allows them to feel superior to the culture at large which has generally accepted TFA.
There you go.
Forgive me, I value creativity over all else
Seeing how utterly devoid of creative merit TFA was finally allowed reality to dawn on me, for all of the shit the prequels had they still felt like "new" Star Wars
If you like rehashy, iterative capeshit that's you
I don't think so. TFA did many things wrong and wasn't that good, but the lightsaber-battles were nice imo.
I don't think he understands or wants to admit that:
-his character didn't really have a character
-his character's purple lightsaber and his fights were in place of an actual character
-lightsaber fights are supposed to be about the conflicting characters instead of a spectacle duel
-actual lightsabers would be heavy chunks of metal emitting a 2ft beam of plasma instead of a plastic prop
-lightsaber fights being overly choreographed would seem more like a video game instead of a real duel between warriors and would lack emotions and humanity
If he knew/admitted any of these he would like the TFA fights more than the prequels
>If that's how you read that then I'd say you fit the mold for the new "turn your brain off" generation
I can smell the Cheetos on your neckbeard through this post.
They were, until the retarded force mary sue powerup
But that was fights between weak noobs (except Ren who was playing with them) who didn't have any idea how to fight
IMO it makes perfect sense that a jedi well versed in the use of the force would start doing fancy moves, attack faster, spin all over the place
Constant movement does more than people think
It doesn't give your opponent time to gauge your position or movement and allows for you to work in a quick strike while they're confused
I love the martial art aspect of saber fighting in the PT, they're knights after all and they follow a creed
Yeah I agree, the fight made sense until rey powered up and beat him, when it should have went exactly like Ren vs Finn, as in
>ren plays with finn, burning his shoulder etc
>finn gets a lucky strike in
>instantly disarmed and condamned to a wheelchair
>[retarded passage where Rey beats Ren at the force]
>ren playing with rey, she's retreating through the entire fight
>saber lock, he tells her about the force something something
>he slices her arm off and she falls into the pit
>IMO it makes perfect sense that a jedi well versed in the use of the force would start doing fancy moves, attack faster, spin all over the place
That's fine, but the problem is that in the prequels, that's ALL they do. There's no substance to the moves, they just look flashy. Look at Obi-Wan after Qui-Gon dies. He lets out a big NO and it looks like he's gonna lose it on Darth Maul - an understandable reaction to seeing his master die - but instead, he just goes back to doing cirque du soleil flippy shit. It's like Qui-Gon's death doesn't even matter.
Compare this to Luke in RotJ. At first, he's all form and grace, perfectly controlled against Vader. But then Vader threatens Leia and Luke loses his fucking mind, becoming a rage beast, progressively losing all technique, just swinging wildly while Vader backs off, getting more desperate, until Luke is literally just pounding at Vader on the ground. You understand the emotions of the fight through the fighters' actions. For telling a story, RotJ is unquestionably a better fight. For doing an exhibition of rehearsed dance-fighting, I guess you might want the prequel fights.
Yes, the fight were lacking, but I'll stay on my opinion that they had the good formula, it just needed more flashy (but logical) force usage (hello force speed never being used again) and better choregraphy
I agree with you, but people claiming the prequels were better than TFA simply because they had more original ideas in them is a farce. Originality in no way counterbalances the amount of bad in the prequel films.
TFA played it very safe, went with a pretty simple story that people would generally like because they've seen it before for the most part, and in the end while playing it safe was probably a good idea for the first Star Wars movie since the prequels, they went too safe
All that being said, they need to seriously up the originality in the next movie
>but I prefer the weighted strikes in TFA, makes the lightsaber feel more powerful as a weapon and gives the fight an added sense of danger
Well, too fucking bad that now you can be hit with a lightsaber 4-5 times in one fight, including a strike that cuts a flap of your coat clean off, and not even lose a limb.
>Luke violently knocked Vader to the ground in RotJ by mercilessly and violently applying huge amounts of momentum to his strikes. Are you telling me the chance of knocking someone off balance and causing them to open up wouldn't be useful?
Not as useful as instakilling your opponent with a flick of your wrist which is too fast to dodge and can't be parried because you've just swung your weapon in a wide arc like a fucking retard.
Luke had the advantage of Vader wanting to keep him alive throughout the entire fight.
Trouble is with all the flippy stuff is the strikes never seem to be accurately aimed at the opponent, unless the plot dictates it is a killing blow, then it will be on target. It becomes too choreographed and takes you out of the scene because it's not a believable representation of two people trying to stab or cut each other
But then it's immediately back to dance-fighting. Guess he just shrugged off the death of his master in one second.
Know what would've been cool? Obi-Wan loses control, but that's what Maul wants, so even though Obi-Wan has a rageout, without his Jedi control, Maul just makes a fool of him, until he remembers that Qui-Gon wouldn't have wanted Obi-Wan to avenge him, but instead would've wanted him to keep to the Jedi way and overcomes Maul like that.
Too bad we never see anything like that in the prequels.
I honestly can't understand people that think TFA had better fights than the prequels
>doesn't matter if it isn't interesting or exciting, if there's no buildup or release of tension, if the strikes all look the fucking same
Do you watch films like the Raid and go "this is shit, I can't see the emotions in his fighting. Man, why does he keep doing all that stupid martial arts shit, that's so fake."
I hope you choke on your iced latte in star bucks bitch
>Do you watch films like the Raid and go "this is shit, I can't see the emotions in his fighting.
This has to be bait, because you clearly can see the emotions in fights in The Raid
I said the reason why you observed that he only still fought Maul with control was because of his Jedi training.
He screamed and got angry and jumpy when Qui-Gon got stabbed, but he mostly controlled it.
His fighting was obviously more aggressive after Qui-Gon's death though.
Please learn to read.
>Finn vs Kylo Ren
>slashy slashy slashy
>Finn gets a hit in out of nowhere
>Rey vs Kylo Ren
>slashy stabby slashy stabby
>absurdly long blade lock
>slashy slashy slashy slashy
>I said the reason why you observed that he only still fought Maul with control was because of his Jedi training.
So it didn't tangibly affect him.
>He screamed and got angry and jumpy when Qui-Gon got stabbed, but he mostly controlled it.
He goes right back to dance-fighting immediately after.
>His fighting was obviously more aggressive after Qui-Gon's death though.
You're exhibiting cognitive dissonance and you're dumb IRL
>He lets out a big NO and it looks like he's gonna lose it on Darth Maul - an understandable reaction to seeing his master die - but instead, he just goes back to doing cirque du soleil flippy shit.
(1)Maybe you should actually fucking watch that part of the fight fight. More fury than in the entire OT sequence of lightsaber fights combined.
(2)The only thing that getting angry to the point of entirely forgetting your techniques can possibly accomplish is to make it easy for your opponent to kill you. Perhaps when you fight in full plate armor and most blows get tanked getting so pumped on adrenaline that you don't even register shock and pain can allow you to hammer down your opponent. But the lightsaber fights are the exact opposite.
>But then Vader threatens Leia and Luke loses his fucking mind, becoming a rage beast, progressively losing all technique, just swinging wildly while Vader backs off, getting more desperate, until Luke is literally just pounding at Vader on the ground.
Which only works because throughout the entire fight Vader wants to turn Luke, not kill him, and if he ever tries to fight seriously, he does so only when it is too late, so Luke's inability to control himself does not result in an instant lightsaber through the heart, as it should have in a fight to death.
>For telling a story, RotJ is unquestionably a better fight.
It's not. These two fights simply tell completely different stories.
t-b-h I'm not bothered about arguing the point of TFA being better or not for emotions in fights, was just saying that particular comparison you used wasn't very good to illustrate your point, if it was genuine.
>(1)Maybe you should actually fucking watch that part of the fight fight. More fury than in the entire OT sequence of lightsaber fights combined.
Laughable. It's Cirque du Soleil with glowsticks.
>(2)The only thing that getting angry to the point of entirely forgetting your techniques can possibly accomplish is to make it easy for your opponent to kill you. Perhaps when you fight in full plate armor and most blows get tanked getting so pumped on adrenaline that you don't even register shock and pain can allow you to hammer down your opponent. But the lightsaber fights are the exact opposite.
Not in Star Wars. Rage is powerful. That's the point of RotJ's final fight.
>Which only works because throughout the entire fight Vader wants to turn Luke, not kill him, and if he ever tries to fight seriously, he does so only when it is too late, so Luke's inability to control himself does not result in an instant lightsaber through the heart, as it should have in a fight to death.
Luke is able to dominate Vader with rage because rage channels the dark side. But it doesn't make him right, which he realizes after he severs Vader's hand. If you don't understand that, you don't understand the most basic things about star wars.
>It's not. These two fights simply tell completely different stories.
In that RotJ is telling a story and Phantom Menace isn't telling a story at all, yes.
>slashy slashy slashy
>someone wins out of nowhere
That would have been realistic. Watch some fencing tournaments. It is sometimes difficult to even notice who scores a hit when. Except with lightsabers all these lightning-fast hits would have resulted in fatal wounds.
But that's not how prequels fight were. The only ones fitting your description are Anakin and Obi-Wan vs Dooku.
>slashy slashy slashy
>obi wan knocked off a ledge
>qui gon backhands maul
>fight switches vertical level
>slashy slashy slashy
>hilt bash stab
>more aggresssive slashy slashy slashy
>twinsaber cut in half, flippy flippy over prone maul
Obi Wan vs Anakin
>flippy slashy slashy kicky slashy
>physical grappling, brief but intense blade lock
>chokey chokey kicky kicky drop kick kicky
>twirly twirly blade lock force push lock
>balancy balancy slashy
>drop, slashy punchy grapple slashy
>fighting on falling debris
>swingy slashy swingy
>escape from lava fall
>slashy slashy on hovering items
Also if you can't see the emotions in the latter fight you might be autistic.
>Laughable. It's Cirque du Soleil with glowsticks.
Repeating a wrong statement does not make it right.
>Not in Star Wars. Rage is powerful. That's the point of RotJ's final fight.
No. It's like you haven't even fucking watched it. Rage is a Dark Side trap. The most it can do is to give a surprise advantage against an opponent who is trying to keep you alive. It does not work against Maul. It does not work against Obi-Wan.
>WOW the entire fucking kanjiklub scene
>WOW dutch angles to represent unease WOW helicopter panning shot WOW hyperactive camera close-ups
>WOW Force theme played 500 times WOW generic kylo ren brass fanfare
>WOW slashing at each other until the director says something needs to happen WOW 30 second blade locks
>WOW finn goes from defecting because he doesn't want to kill to whooping as he kills his comrades WOW han solo magically reverts to how he was in ANH WOW rey gets everything handed to her
>WOW tatooine 2.0 WOW hoth 2.0 WOW yavin 2.0 WOW boring evil base WOW island that is obviously a real life location
>WOW "so who talks first" WOW "you got a cute boyfriend" WOW "leader snoke is wise" WOW "trash compactor?!"
Is /tv/ the most pathetic userbase on 4chan? The contrarian mental gymnastics regarding Star Wars: TFA is incredible and at the same time absolutely loathsome.
The constant denial, backtracking and moving the goalposts.
>"TFA will be shit! Fucking Jew Jew Abrams, fucking nigger main character, fucking SJWs! People won't accept this! It will be worse than the prequels and a total flop!"
>Trailer drops. Record pre-sales, screenings booked out months in advance. Hype incredibly high.
>"I-it'll still be a flop! Guaranteed to be shit! Phantom Menace sold well too before people realised it was shit! N-nigger character!"
>TFA releases. 5 star reviews, record opening day. People love based Johnny B's performance, and he's very well received.
>"o-ok it might not be as bad as we thought, but it's still not going to beat Jurassic World! Disney are finished!"
>Beats Jurassic World, despite being released in off-season and no Chinese release.
>"J-just wait until based RLM eviscerates it for being A New Hope ripoff in a Mr Plinkett review! You'll f-fucking see then Starfags!"
>Mike loves it. RLM approve and think it has saved the Star Wars franchise from the prequels.
>"FUCKING SHIT FILM, MARY SUE JEW SHIT. PREQUEL LOVE THREAD. WHO FUCKING LOVES ATTACK OF THE CLONES? I DO. REVENGE OF THE SITH WAS BETTER THAN ROTJ. BASED GEORGE LUCAS. WELL AT LEAST TFA WON'T BEAT AVATAR
The mouthbreathing basement dwellers who strive to be contrarian have been backed into a corner really, they started so verbose. So confident that the film would be a flop, not break any records and would be panned by critics. Slowly as TFA has BTFO them on every conceivable level, they've been reduced to adopting some bizarre cult-like contrarian attitude to the prequels, proclaiming them as underrated gems, and trying to push some kind of narrative where if TFA doesn't beat Avatar, it's somehow failed, despite already being a record breaking movie and saving Star Wars.
Too bad that the acting, story, pacing, direction, visual effects, casting, fight choreography, and just about everything else was way off par in the prequels.
But hey, at least we got Duel of the Fates, amirite?
>In that RotJ is telling a story and Phantom Menace isn't telling a story at all, yes.
I disagree with that. The Maul fight is supposed to be the first encounter with the shadowy presence behind everything that's happened(The phantom menace itself) and as such Maul pulls out a crazy lightsaber we'd never seen before, looks weird and unsettling, and says nothing the entire fight.
You can say it was too long and flashy but it definitely was telling part of the story. AoTC and RotS do have some pointless duels that are just there to be flashy, particularly Yoda's.
You JUST know this hits a little too close for some fags here
That's the thing that the TFA duel defenders don't understand. It's not going to look like a sword fight between armored knights from the dark ages because the people fighting are supposed to be space wizards using their magic to perform super human feats of speed, agility, and precognition. A weakness of the prequel duels is that many of the strikes were flashy without purpose, but the fix is not to remove the space magic, it's to make the strikes more logically placed.
No that would be retarded. Stop forcing this meme. The only thing worse than a mary sue would be a mary sue that turns evil and an evil guy that killed his dad getting his angel wings. Fuck off you literal teenager.
No? Methodical strikes without so much pirouetting is the best way to sword fight. It is the most accurate as well. [Fast forward to the 5 minute mark. The beginning is pretty Wrestlemania ridiculous, yeah?]
These are modern professional fighters that fight with live steel [notice increasing dents in the armor as the video goes along]. It just isn't that effective to use all those ballerina techniques shown in the prequels.
If they were wanting to mimic a samurai fight, then it would be even shorter. Most sword fights between samurai ended in maybe 3 exchanged/countered blows at the most.
Then why did they pull it off just fine in the OT?
Some of the stuff is excessive.
Eastern warriors use swords that are much lighter than western swords like claymores, yet you don't see them dancing around like a fool.
If anything, there should be more Force battles. Yoda should have been using objects in the room and other Force attacks during AOTC, not his lightsabre. Perfect counter to his former student, who relies heavily on a lightsaber form that is meant to counter other lightsabers.
Notice that Dooku is supposed to be one of the better duelists and he adopts a slower, flowing fencing style. One handed, and he stays on the ground mostly.
look closely. it's his sleeve senpai
It wouldn't be interesting because there is no fucking way it could be executed convincingly. It would be a fucking train wreck. Even if it turns out Rey's parents were the greatest sith lords ever, that would contradict the first movie and therefor be shit. And it's not the only possible interesting arc. It's the only ark you could think of because it's gimmicky.
And I was laughing at the prequels, in which the fights can best be compared to a fight in Bleach.
Even over the top anime like Kenshin has better fights that are less ridiculous.
Why? His OT stuff was all about using the Force to manipulate the environment.
It would have been pottery. As I said before Dooku was considered to be among the best with lightsaber dueling. As Yoda's former student, wouldn't it have been better if Yoda never used his lightsaber?
So do you watch sports where they routinely try to kill each other?
If a professional MMA or boxer wanted to kill you with their fists and legs, I'm sure they could. But they don't. The technique is similar.
Medieval tournaments did not consist solely of jousting. There was also sparring. Sometimes people would die in accidents, but the point was to gain points on your opponent. The technique is the same, you just have certain moves you cannot do and certain points you can not aim at.
It is really easy to kill an American football player by grabbing his face mask and yanking him to the ground. You can stop him from carrying the ball that way, and a smaller person can grab the helmet and still bring him to the ground. But it isn't allowed, and is penalized for the potential to cause serious injury.
Who gives a fuck about the Middle Ages, you stupid tripfag retard.
Is "nitpicking" the buzzword prequelfags use to defend all the shit in those movies?
When 97% of a movie is shit worthy of "nitpicking," it doesn't matter if they're small or large details, the movie is still 97% complete shit.