>"HURR JEDI TRAINING ISN'T LITERAL TRAINING LIKE IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL, FUCK LUCAS"
Oh really? Then how are new Jedi supposed to be trained?
They can't ALL face Darth Vader you fat fuck.
Fucking hell, can /tv/ please write an open letter to these hacks?
Even then, it's poor planning to have blindfolded children, still learning how to use the force stand in close quarters, unless this is used to weed out the weak ones
>getting mad over meme reviewers
hit the road jack
Rey's helmet says "RAEH" implying that's where she got her name, and first line of the movie references the disappointing prequels with "This will begin to make things right."
>Ra carries a staff…so does Rey Ra has a head of a Falcon…Rey is the new “head” of the Millennium Falcon. Also, in ancient Egypt the Eyes are very important and we know that in TFA eyes player a important part via Maz.
Anakin/Luke 2.0 is on Tatooine 2.0 when she finds R2D2 2.0 who has the death star plans 2.0. She tries to get the death star plans 2.0 to the Rebellion 2.0 and Darth Vader 2.0 tries to stop them. The Rebellion 2.0 finds out about the Death Star 3.0 and blows it up with X-wings 1.0 after the shield is brought down by the Endor moon strike team 2.0 to end the movie.
that stuff is all cool, I'm talking about this kind of poetry
It's handy that the way they apparently train the younglings is the exact way Luke trained in hope. Had the same tools required and everything. Why would Han have a training droid. Why are there blast shield you can't see through and how would you know to deploy it in time if there's a blast?
>Han blasting a door panel to open the door
those actually make sense though. han was in a trash compactor and he knows what they're like, he's referencing it, the movie isn't.
anakin and obi wan chasing a bounty hunter into a bar and chilling so they can have a scene where he chops someones hand off doesn't make any sense.
>I shouldn't have to read a novel to understand the movie and not think "wait what?"
And yet you would have to in order to understand the wonky political situation in TFA.
>They can't ALL face Darth Vader you fat fuck.
they can face there personal demon and personal worst fears, you scruffy-looking nerf-herder!
A) It's a Remake, not a Reboot. A Reboot can be however different you like from the original, as long as it carries the same general spirit. That is what a Reboot is.
A remake is making the same thing but updated. That is what ANH 2.0 is.
B) By definition, a new Star Wars movie would be a reboot (if it is at least trying to be Star Wars). A remake is as needed cactus up our ass.
between those two TFA is more in line with A and not B. or rather a combo of the two. I'd better describe it as a repainting of the general plot of anh AND esb but with different characters.
Did you hear me defend the Phantom Menace?
>I'd better describe it as a repainting of the general plot of anh AND esb but with different characters.
You're describing a remake.
Anything that brings back a dead/stagnant franchise is by definition a reboot.
What did they do to Mark Hamill? They should have kept his 2010 look and say he became a transspecie hutt-kin, it would have been more progressive than turning him into an attractive old white male
>it doesn't matter that we don't see how the injury impacts his movement during his fight with her or that he still is shown to have stronger force powers post wound
>his strength, dexterity, and intelligence stats were obviously reduced
I feel like remake implies same characters and a story that's nearly identical beat for beat. Many sequels borrow elements. There's another Death Star in Return of the Jedi, Phantom Menace has a kid being taken from a desert planet to train as Jedi, there's a Boba Fett in Attack of the Clones. The Force Awakens might borrow too many elements from Star Wars, but it's different enough to constitute being a sequel rather than a remake.
While I certainly do applaud this new Star Wars episode for defying angry white fan-boys with their casting choices, it’s still worth grounding all the praise the film has received in some reality.
I love Rey as a strong female protagonist because it reminds little girls everywhere they can be Jedi. I also love Finn as a multidimensional, black protagonist who inspires little boys of colour to pick up the lightsaber. But in her role, Nyong’o is reduced to a raceless character that a young black girl may not recognize as any kind of role model when watching the film.
Well they couldn't make that sort of remake without abandoning the canon of the original movies, and there is no way they'd do that.
I'd say this easily counts as a remake, in that even though it technically isn't an actual re-do that is mean to replace the original, it is at least in construction the same story.
The thing with Return of the Jedi, is that beyond the Death Star, there is pretty much nothing it has in common with A New Hope in plot developments, unless you want to equate the Ewok assault on the Shield Generator with the Trenchrun narratively.
Everything in the prequels is more of a singular nod, a "rhyme", that is technically taken from the original movies, and less a beat by beat series of nods.
Regardless, I don't want to defend or argue the prequels. Regardless if they are remakes or not, this is one by my count, and no amount of "but the prequels" is going to make it better.
it's funny that the New Republic immediately got right back to being the slow, corrupt, bureaucratic nightmare that led to Palpatine gaining control of the Senate in the first place
He's right, you know.
Jedi are embroiled in mysticism. It makes more sense to have them trained in close quarters with a master, the master teaching in his own way. A temple can be a monastery where they chill and learn to become more in tune with the force. But the fact that they became political instead of being meddlers, much like the wizards in lord of the rings, is something George completely fucked the pooch on.
Of the major plot elements, the droid carrying secrets, a death star, and a burgeoning Jedi on a desert planet are the film's similarities to Star Wars. The characters are different, the ending is different, the roles of the new characters are dissimilar to the roles their OT counterparts played. It's not a remake by any stretch of the imagination. Like Terminator 2, or Aliens, it's simply a sequel that borrows from its predecessor.
Whats to argue? Entire segments were lifted from the OT to piece together this frankensteins monster of a movie, and everything new they tried to add to it was fucking abysmal. The story is a disjointed mess just to get the scenes to stick together in ways they weren't designed for
because he was still moving around fine the whole time and we already know he still has more brute force power even though the lightsaber flew to her because lightsabers are sentient now or some shit.
having a hole in your side should reduce your ability to walk or make some particular movement, not just let you move the same but you totally hit softer when you do connect we promise
So apparently you haven't seen the film.
>everything new they tried to add to it was fucking abysmal
Kylo Ren is a more interesting and developed villain in a single film than Vader is in two.
That it isn't institutionalised and that someone who is the fucking chosen one probably has to fight the lord of the sith. A lesser jedi probably does shit like with yoda and fights his own demons to remove his burdens and become a proper jedi.
Forced cantina scene
Kylo Ren is garbage tier as both a character and a villain, with a shitty too close to the mic voice changer to boot. The only good new character the movie didn't have time to fuck up was Poe, and if he had more than 15 minutes I've no doubt theyd have ruined him as well.
ROTJ does the self aware meme shit too. the "I love you, I know" role reversal comes to mind. they shoved the AT AT on the ewok planet only because they were iconic that point.
esb remains the only star wars movie free of corniness, memes, callbacks or references.
>the main protagonists are looking for a ship on a sand planet and barely manage to escape after the vilains find them
>the main characters get the Millenium falcon caught by the tractor beam of a bigger shit and try to hide in the ship's floor
Kylo Ren is literally only the third character in the entire franchise that's well-drawn enough to be engaging. A conflicted school shooter vacillating between light and dark with his Yorick skull makes for a far more modern and original villain than Vader, who's ostensibly a glorified SS officer.
Will they hire Chris Nolan to direct "Love conquers all" episode?
Obi wan obviously kept that floating laserball from the old days. How else would you even explain that thing if not as a jedi training device? What other use is there supposed to be for a floating ball that shoots harmless lasers?
All Obi-Wan got from Han was a helmet with a visor because he didn't have any of the official Jedi training helmets anymore
>a visual reference has to have the same plot relevance as what it's referencing
Are you fucking stupid? The tie fighter in the sunset shot isn't a reference to Apocoplyse Now because the context in which it was used differs?
>the main protagonists are looking for a ship on a sand planet and barely manage to escape after the vilains find them
sounds an awful lot like TPM. maybe they wanted to hit certain beats as to not disrupt symmetry.
People who paid attention to the original trilogy know that training in the Force is learning to have faith in the Force and having control over your emotions.
George Lucas is not one of those people. He felt the need to make Jedi training this massive ordeal and it basically boils down to being an extremely convoluted justification for Anakin to fall to the Dark Side. It just makes no sense at all and contradicts everything we saw in the original films.
In fact you could argue that the very nature of the Force makes decades-long training totally pointless because the whole point of the Force is to give you powers without having to work for them. Once Luke understands the principles of the Force he's basically a Jedi. So Jedi training is basically a few weeks of boot camp followed by a final test, which is in line with the notion that the Jedi knights were an army rather than a religious cult.
>the droid's plot relevance isn't the same as R2's
>Lars San Tekka dies in the first 5 minutes of the movie and Rey never meets him
>The First Order doesn't burn Rey's hometown
>Rey doesn't escape with the help of Han
>Rey doesn't meet Han until they get off Jakku
>It's never revealed that Rey is Kylo's cousin
>Snoke isn't a Sith Lord
I assume the person who wrote this never actually saw the film?
If you have a scene of someone talking to a skull half of your audience is going to think "I knew him, Horatio." Yes, it's purely visual, but that doesn't matter. You can borrow aesthetics from art same way you can borrow themes and symbols. The fact that he's vacillating between deciding whether or not to kill his father also brings Hamlet to mind.
Obi wan very briefly showed him how to at least channel the force and use his feelings. He even trained a little with a light sabre. He wasn't using mind tricks or fighting experienced sith lords nigga
>fighting experienced sith lords nigga
She beat an injured guy in a fight. How is that less probable than hitting a minuscule target without the aid of computer assistance while you're moving at super sonic speeds?
>fighting experienced sith lords
He's a trainee, and he's emotionally on the level of a high school boy. He's a teenager trying to play with the adults, pretending to be a man when he's clearly not. Also, he's injured, and generally not exactly a saber combat expert, or he would've hacked Finn apart in seconds.
Y'all realize Space cop is supposed to be bad in an ironic kind of way, right?
Search your feelings.
Who's apologizing? The movies are bad, but those reviews are filled mostly with total bullshit points. "No protagonist in the Phantom Menace" is probably the first I think of off the top of my head because it's so very obvious that Jinn was the protagonist of that film: we spend most of our time with him, he's the driving force in the film working against the antagonists, and he's the one who solves most the problems.
Jinn isn't characterized at all. He doesn't come across as a protagonist because A, he's a fucking boring non-character, and B, the film spends an undue amount of time with Anakin presenting him as the new Luke.
My main problem with the Plinkett reviews, which I do enjoy, it's that they sometimes delve into cinema sins-style plot logic nitpick. The problem with The Phantom Menace isn't the potholes, it's the fact that it fails to deliver on the basic elements that make up a good film. Plenty of great films have similar plot discrepancies, but they survive on being well-made and fun. The Phantom Menace's worst sin is that it's fucking boring.
> call him wise, stoic and a rebel
> is incredibly boring and stupid
The prequels are just terrible written movies. How come no one ever discusses the points about how exposition is handled in these movies? Or how besides Anakin most of the characters are inconsistent. Or how its a retarded fucking mess of a central plot about political intrigue but still has Jar Jar stepping in the poopy
>I have to invent character traits in order to justify me liking a zero point one dimensional shadow of a cardboard cutout of a non-character
>invent character traits
Every character trait is backed by things we see him do in the movie, though.
Just because Mike's friends (who also all really hate the prequels) pretended to not know who he was or anything about him doesn't mean he doesn't have distinct, definable character traits. I could get a bunch of my friends to pretend Luke or Han have no character. Doesn't make it true.
>Just because Mike's friends (who also all really hate the prequels) pretended to not know who he was or anything
I can almost guarantee you that the majority of casual fans wouldn't be able to come up with definable traits for Jinn. He's one of the least talked about leads in the entire franchise.
Is it? Shes only in maybe half the scenes, and her only character is ever escalating god powers.
Kylo is conflicted as much as hitler was. Hes a shallow as fuck ever decreasing in power boring villain. Finn is basically a tag along once he meets up with Rey, but hey he develops in those first 15 minutes I'll tell you what. Fuck you guys and your shitty awful taste.
I came up with definable traits and I'm not even that big of a Star Wars fan.
I also don't know why you'd "almost guarantee" something.
>He's one of the least talked about leads
He's only in one of the movies. Even so, we're talking about him. Another thread is devoted to him.
>And yet you would have to in order to understand the wonky political situation in TFA.
If you were for some reason interested in that. TFA has the sense not to make that the focus of the fucking movie.
>Finn has an actual arc
True. Qui-Gon doesn't have a character arc. He still has characterization, though.
>with a clear motivation
Untrue. His motivation is a friendship we don't feel because the movie rushes through everything. He goes from just meeting Rey to talking about the first time she looked at him like he loves her (which is funny because the first time she looked at him, she wanted to kick his ass).
As a result, his character arc feels forced because the relationship it hinges on doesn't feel real because they rushed through that.
His action figure sells the least.
>Kylo is conflicted as much as hitler was
As opposed to Vader, Maul, an Palatine? Even though his apparent pull towards the light amounts to a single line of dialogue, that's still more than every other Star Wars villain aside from Vader in Jedi. Using the fact that he isn't very conflicted as evidence of his lack of characterization is absurd within the contest of Star Wars.
This is a useless discussion because it's entirely anecdotal. There's no objective way of determining the impact the character has had, but the majority of people clearly have issues with the film as a whole.
Are they? Top threads in the movies subreddit were how TFA was making a lot of money last I checked (there were like two when I checked, and everyone was cheering it on it seemed).
>There's no objective way of determining the impact the character has had, but the majority of people clearly have issues with the film as a whole.
I like how this sentence completely contradicts itself.
If you don't think that that's intentional then you're a fucking mouthbreather
>His motivation is a friendship we don't feel because the movie rushes through everything
Not true. They escaped the First Order together. You know what really builds friendships? Experiencing events together.
TFA was rushed and it needed a scene where things calmed down so we could have more character interaction, I agree with you. But I'll take a bit of rushing over the 'Tell, don't show' attitude of the prequels and all of its character relationships aside from Obi and Anakin
>Even though his apparent pull towards the light amounts to a single line of dialogue, that's still more than every other Star Wars villain aside from Vader in Jedi
What I'd like to add about that is there are a handful of lines to imply Kylo Ren's motivations, enough that we get it, yet little enough that there's plenty to explore in the future. There's intrigue about him. A lot of /tv/ for some reason need everything fucking spelled out for them immediately like they're morons, or else it's a 'poorly written character.'
The pacing of the film was fine, and the relationships felt infinitely more organic than they did in the prequels. Do you have many friends? Do you realize that being in extraordinary circumstances together speeds that friendship along, and can often become the impetus for forming that friendship in the first place? Finn, who probably hasn't seen a girl who isn't Phasma in years, instantly falling in love with Rey would only be a problem if lonely 21 year old men weren't horny.
>Experiencing events together.
Experiencing events over time. We're deprived of the time in the film. With Han and Luke, we see them spending time and talking to each other and getting to know one another. We don't get much of that with Rey and Finn. Also, a huge part of what Finn tells her about himself is a total lie, and when this is revealed, she has zero reaction to it. It doesn't even seem like she understood he had been lying to her. That entire sequence between her and Finn in Maz Kanata's place is completely out of place and feels like it's missing some scenes leading up to it.
The same is true with Han and Rey, when Han offers her a spot on his crew. It's just so unearned.
>But I'll take
I prefer they did it right. That's my real issue with people gush over TFA (a film I liked) is that they're always going on about how "at least it wasn't the prequels." Being "just better than the prequels" isn't something you should settle for, especially if you think so damn lowly of the prequels (like me).
literally not even what we're talking about, nice try though kiddie
>pacing of the film was fine
If you have ADHD.
>and the relationships felt infinitely more organic than they did in the prequels
There it is again, the "well it wasn't as bad as the prequels" set the bar so low anything would beat it attitude that prevents any actual observations about flaws in the film from ever being made.
>Do you have many friends?
Yeah. I also know people for more than a day before they're my friends. People in TFA just become BFFs in a day.
You're viewing Han, Luke, and Leia through the prism of three films, and Finn and Rey through the prism of one.
>Yeah. I also know people for more than a day before they're my friends. People in TFA just become BFFs in a day.
Both Rey and Finn literally have no one else. Also, the notion of characters coming together through some deterministic pull is the major part of the hero's journey.
But if you don't think that people becoming really good friends in a single day is possible, go to a outdoor music festival.
Big difference between "being friendly," "starting a friendship," and "being best friends."
What happens in TFA is the start of a friendship for Finn and Rey (at least by the point they reach Maz Kanata's place) and yet Finn acts like they're way closer than they should be.
I can buy the relationship at the end of the film, but not at that point in the film. If they toned down the dialogue, it'd be more believable.
And they did tone down the dialogue when they did it in A New Hope: Han tells Luke to flee with him, and Luke turns him down. Han doesn't talk about how close they are because, at that point, they're not all that close.
Yep. The film where Han Solo coldly collects his money, leaves, gets chewed out by the wookie and his own conscience, and then has a change of heart and decides to help the Rebellion, proving Luke was right about him.
What's so unbelievable about their dialogue? They very clearly don't trust each other until they meet Han, and she definitely behaves like a massive cunt around Finn up until that point. Watch the film again.
You made up the goalpost. There was none set up. I said Hamlet was an inspiration for that image and presented evidence. You're the one asking where in the film that concept art is located, as if I implied it was.
I'm talking about the dialogue in Kaz Manata's place, where Finn pours his soul to Rey, a girl he just recently met and really knows nothing about (and who only knows lies about him).
His change of heart gets no actual screen time, while almost all of the motivational impetus for what happens in TFA does. It's a perfect example of showing rather than establishing through expository dialogue.
I would give up Mangum. You're talking with bonafide autists that are defending the pacing, writing and directing of the prequels over a thinly veiled attempt to appear patrician
>gets no actual screen time
Movies don't always have to show or tell us something for us to know more or less what happened.
Before Han leaves, he's clearly conflicted. He wants to stay and help, but he knows it'd be a losing fight. Hell, he says as much to Luke. And we also see Chewie pretty clearly disagreeing with Han's decision to leave (this is based on Han's reaction to Chewie's angry growl).
So when Han returns, the safe assumption is that his conscience combined with Chewbacca disagreeing and wanting to help led to his change of heart. We don't need to see it or have it told to us.
>This is a dumb nitpick.
No, it's a scene that took me out of the film because I was like, "What, did I miss something? Did they skip a scene? Because this dude is giving way more emotions than appropriate here." Maybe because I didn't just "turn off my brain" like I was supposed to. You know, never had to turn off my brains for the original trilogy. Sure had to for the prequels. What does that say about where TFA lies in the spectrum of Star Wars films, huh?
People share life stories in bars after drinking a lot. Rey and Finn aren't drunk. Finn may as well have proposed.
And Rey not reacting to being lied to when it comes to the only thing Finn ever told her about himself other than his name (also a lie) was just baffling. It's like they cut her responding to that for time.
I don't necessarily disagree, but a similar scene in TFA would get torn apart. It runs counter to the character the film sets up for Solo, it's a god machine that ends up saving Luke out of nowhere, and it isn't presented as a payoff to a prior set up. We're willing to overlook this stuff in Star Wars, but dig deep to dredge up any minor inconsistency or general flaw in The Force Awakens. It's like the pernicious effect of cinema sins is taking over nerd film critique
>And Rey not reacting to being lied to when it comes to the only thing Finn ever told her about himself other than his name (also a lie) was just baffling. It's like they cut her responding to that for time.
Yeah that was retarded, it was like they wrote in a potential conflict and obstacle in the relationship (Finn lying all the time) but didn't know how to resolve it and just ignored it altogether
People are only willing to ignore inconsistencies and plotholes when the film remains entertaining and exciting enough to maintain the interest of viewers. TFA failed at that, so people just started tearing the paper-thin plot apart because it was the most interesting thing one could do when stuck in a cinema watching this crap.
They literally just survived the creature attacks on Han's freighter, with Rey rescuing Finn from almost certain death, and this was after an escape from TIE fighters. Seems like they go through a fairly large amount of shit for two relatively young people.
>isn't presented as a payoff to a prior set up
The prior set up is Han talking to Luke. Han comes off as conflicted, wanting to stay but at the same time wanting to live. Luke then comments to Leia that he felt like Han was a better guy than that. Also, when Han goes to Chewie, Chewie growls at him and is clearly telling him off.
It's set up that Han returns, which is why it's not a surprise (it isn't, I recently saw it with friends and they all saw it coming).
The original trilogy is renowned for its bad dialogue and poor characterization; read reviews written at the time. "Turn off your brain" is the perfect phrase to describe the sort of cinema Star Wars brought to prominance. Nostalgia and nerd deification allows you to overlook how poorly paced Empire is, while forcing you to come up with insignificant criticisms for stuff no one would have an issue with in a film realeased around 1980. You're a meme, kid. Think about your life and talk to real people to see how relationships work.
>the film remains entertaining and exciting enough to maintain the interest of viewers. TFA failed at that.
tell that to the billions of people that saw it and loved it, and kanji club.
punk change camrip watching negro
You mean the same kind of reviews that praised The Phantom Menace?
Hey, remember how Ebert said
>If it were the first "Star Wars" movie, "The Phantom Menace" would be hailed as a visionary breakthrough.
Wow, yeah, let's read reviews and base our opinions only on them. That's a great idea!
>allows you to overlook how poorly paced Empire is
You're talking to the wrong anon, buddy. I'm the anon who says "the Empire isn't the best Star Wars film because a big flaw is its poor pacing" and gets shit on for saying that.
Fuck you and fuck your assumptions.
Nice meme. We're you even born before 1999? Counting only original reviews TPM has like a 64% on RT, with the positive reviews being middling. TFA is objectively a better received film.
Not from everyone. And if you're using reviews to decide whether a film is good, your opinion is worth nothing.
Good for them if they enjoyed it. Where would we be if all humans had to share the same opinion on movies?
If you have schools of Jedi training, it kind of makes them not that great, i.e. it's just churning out Jedi. What's so special about that?
In the OT, being trained by an elder Jedi [O.P. Wand] was seen as having more impact because Jedi weren't as prevalent.
Or something like that.
>I wasn't only referring to you specifically
>You're a meme, kid. Think about your life and talk to real people to see how relationships work.
No, you're specifically talking to me about me.
I played nice, too. If you want to play condescending douchebag, do it with another anon.
why the fuck are you so obtuse, nigga? that anons right, the hamlet inspirations are obvious. just because it's just in the concept art and not in the film doesn't mean that it's not relevant to his character.
>Jedi are a mix of medieval knights and east asian monks
>Both of these were initially trained in groups
Gotta agree with this dude. I liked TFA well enough. It was a good film, but not a great one. And a major problem it had was pacing. Too much action all the time to where it felt like we were rushing. We should have had Rey and Finn fly around in the Falcon for a while before being picked up by Han, where they get to know each other, and form a more meaningful connection. Then when Han boards the ship, there should be more relationship building but between Han and Rey.