>Unfortunately, the second season of True Detective didn’t manage to win over fans like the first did, with critics branding it very middle of the road.
>Many more fans were left disappointed by the Collin Farrell and Rachael McAdams starring drama, leading to umpteen articles being written in the show’s defence.
>It seems the criticism has affected those involved, particularly the president of programming Michael Lombardo who spoke to The Frame about why the show was not one of HBO’s finest, hinting that he takes the blame for what happened after rushing show creator Nic Pizzolatto.
>“I’ll tell you something. Our biggest failures — and I don’t know if I would consider True Detective 2 — but when we tell somebody to hit an air date as opposed to allowing the writing to find its own natural resting place, when it’s ready, when it’s baked — we’ve failed.
>“And I think in this particular case, the first season of True Detective was something that Nic Pizzolatto had been thinking about, gestating, for a long period of time. He’s a soulful writer. I think what we did was go, ‘Great.’ And I take the blame. I became too much of a network executive at that point. We had huge success. ‘Gee, I’d love to repeat that next year.’
>“Well, you know what? I set him up. To deliver, in a very short time frame, something that became very challenging to deliver. That’s not what that show is. He had to reinvent the wheel, so to speak. Find his muse. And so I think that’s what I learned from it. Don’t do that anymore.
>“And I’d love to have the enviable certainty of knowing what my next year looks like. I could pencil things in. But I’m not going to start betting on them until the scripts are done.”
>I became too much of a network executive at that point
Maybe at that stage you need to have your creator bring in a writer or two that he can work with whether he likes it or not.
Hmm kind of a based comment to make.
An exec basically trying to cover up a writer's fuckup by saying it's their fault and should not have rushed, that's pretty rare.
He's not quite Landgraf level but we'll see
Any writer worth his salt could have told you that the ENTIRE Frank storyline could have been cut. This isn't some sort of secret understanding of narrative only the true greats could get, literally anyone could have told Pizzaman that having a character entire divorced from the other three who serves no real function and talks like a David Mamet space alien was an insane time-sink.
Then maybe he could have spent some actual time in the story on why we should care about the complete fucking nonsense of a plotline or give something John Cater to do beyond crying in his trailer and going to six different pawnshops.
Their POV was probably, "it worked once, why wouldn't it work again?"
"It" being Pizza's one-man show.
The difference being that in Season 1 he had 10 years to work over the scripts.
>my life when Season 2 is my favorite season of any show and everyone shits on it
Uh...some of the stuff with Marty's wife and his mistresses?
There was barely anything beyond the scope of the investigation. Part of what made that show work was how tightly focused everything was on the leads and their search, two people scratching at the very edge of this massive, horrible conspiracy.
Season 2 was Pizza's clear attempt to write a James Ellroy novel, from the structure right down to borrowing entire plotlines. But Ellroy write dense tomes that stretch entire decades and Pizza just couldn't fit all that scope into 8 episodes.
I really fucking enjoyed a lot of it. But I'm not going to pretend it didn't have serious problems at the same time.
Frank's storyline made zero sense after the first couple episodes. His entire plotline with the Russian mafia was fucking terrible in how underserved it was.
>And I take the blame. I became too much of a network executive at that point.
The last time someone took responsibility for their fuckups like this, I think it was Robert E. Lee.
this, gaycops storyline is the one that was completely superfluous. Vince and Colin were both interesting and had good chemistry in their scenes together. Adams was certainly below them but still time worthy. Even if her storyline was over and done with after she stabbed that guy.
true detective s2 was seriously flawed and basically failed at whatever it was attempting, revealing pizza's limitations as a writer, but it also had a ton of goofy charm to it, and that counts for a lot
The season was lost
The cancellation signed
I was not caught
I crossed the line
I was not caught
Though HBO tried
I write among you
I had to leave
My Cary behind
I wrote some scripts
You’ll never find
The seasons told
With facts and lies
I had a reputation
But never mind
The season was lost
The cancellation signed
At least Woodrough was connected to the rest of the narrative. He could have been a decent character if he got to do fucking anything.
Frank was starring in a completely different TV show. They gave him an entirely different set of problems to deal with and thought that this was somehow acceptable just becuase he shares three scenes with Farrell.
Look, if Pizza wanted to write a show about a gangster who blows his fortune on a bad investment and has to go back to crime while dealing with the entrenching forces of the Russian mafia, he should have written that show. It would basically be an American Guy Ritchie movie and probably be pretty good. But it had no place in the rest of the show.
Iff nothing else it shows you just how strong Colin and McAdams are. No matter what happened or what they had to do or say, they never broke for a second. Both fucking killed it and every time they were sharing screentime it was magnetic.
YES. I hate to say it, but about 90% of why I love Season 2 is >muh feels
Seriously. It's the saddest season of any show ever. And that's part of why it's stuck with me.
>Ray and Chad
>every scene between Ray and Ani
>Frank's long walk
>Frank actually being the best person out of all of them
But there are those little glimmers of hope, especially between Ray and Ani.
One of my favorite scenes. You wouldn't see stuff like this on another show--where two characters slowly begin to figure each other out with a minimum of conversation.
This was a public, high-profile disaster. At some point someone was going to have to come out and be honest about it, good in Lombardo for being the one to do it.
>inb4 it wasn't a disaster
It doesn't matter if you liked it or if I liked it. What matters is 95% of the buzz around the show when it was on was nothing short of apocalyptic, almost on the level of the Star Wars prequels.
>that doesn't matter all that matters are the ratings
HBO prides itself on the fact that public buzz and conversation matters just as much to it as ratings. It has kept shows like Enlightened and Girls around for multiple seasons even with dismal ratings, just because of the conversation and prestige they generate. The grand, wholesale rejection of S2 is going to hit them really fucking hard.
True Detective s2 had actual Characters instead of.. cardboards and the writing in general was better if not bit too grim dark serious at times.
There's nothing but good directing in s1, sure s2 wasnt exactly as well directed but on every other aspect, it is much better than s1
even the memes were better from s2.
I think s2 would have worked much better if they had kept the format of s1, i.e. the events taking place in the past but being told in present day interviews as flashbacks. Would have framed everything much nicer and wouldn't have made it seem like such completely different show.
>s2 had actual Characters instead of.. cardboards
this criticism makes absolutely zero sense, mate. both seasons had fully realized leads. s2 suffered from Pizz's limited ability to write compelling characters. he can outline them rather well but fails to follow through in an over-arching narrative. plus he steps on his own foot over and over again inserting his Pizzo-isms to every character's dialog. it worked in s1 b/c well, to be frank, he stole a lot of it from Ligotti and a little from Moore and Morrison. ripping off Ellroy and inserting moronic aphorisms and awfulness like "blue balls of the heart," just no, man, no.
>/tv/ tells me fargo s2 is tiers above tds2
>start watching fargo s2
>"shieeeeet, now i get them, production value, cinematography, charming characters, insane suspense, great story"
>episode 9 happens. literally ayylmaos save the protag
>mfw /tv/ still thinks fargo s2 is better than td s2
I agree with the last part of your post, Pizzoisms were by far the worst part of the season,yet I think the characters felt like real people. S1's characters (especially Rusty) felt like TV characters
apples and oranges, mate. however, fargo s2 had a better build up, better characters, stronger dialog, better shoot-outs, etc. the latter part of the season wasn't as good as the beginning.
TD s2 was just mediocre. some good dialog and Farrel's acting was top notch with what he was given, but most of it was just meh. the orgy scene, the bus shootout, the gay cop blackmail. meh. just meh.
He literally teleports in the first episode.
People looking for realism in the Fargo series confuse me. The Coens have never been known for strict, real-world logic in their films and I'm not sure why the series should be any different.
You are fucking retarded since you cannot grasp the concepts of season 2.
Don't worry, redditors don't really understand masculinity, introspection, or self-sacrifiice anyway. Keep spoutin' those memes
>mfw /tv/ thinks, seriously thinks that any season of Hannibal is in the same tier as True Detective s2
Why discuss bottom of the barrel garbage like Fargo S2 and TD S1 and S2 when there is better shows to discuss ;_;
im so lonely in my friday night lights samefag thread ;_;
>Since people here are falling in love with the Star Wars prequels all of a sudden
All around the Internet are film critics that tag along with Vulgar Auteur philosophy making sorry ass reviews that are 4/5 stars or 5/5 stars praising those terrible movies with the most insane mental gymnastics.
Crafty damage control.
If you had so little time then why make the show with 4 characters with absolutely no idea about the dynamics between them? Why not have two characters like season 1 where it's easier for them to have actual chemistry like S1?
>You make the bed you lie in, Ray. Well, guess what? I may be on my death bed, but I sure as fuck ain't gonna be sleeping alone
It really, honestly felt like the original drafts of the series wee a two-hander with Velcoro and Ani, but Pizza felt like two cops solving a case would just be a retread of season one so he stapled two more characters into the plot regardless of logic.
I still maintain Woodrough was a fine addition to the story and could have worked if he had any actual screentime to develop his storyline.
Parts were, and it was certainly more ambitious. But as an overall you're insane if you S2 was overall better.
how so? explain why you think the cinematography, directing, writing, acting, scenes, climax, resolutions, and episodes were better than s1.
really interested in how anyone can judge s2 better than s1 without reverting to saying: "i just liked it more."
S1 of TD doesn't have Tim Riggins.
S2 of TD has Tim Riggins.
Thus, S2 of TD is better.
Good taste you have.
If you love Tim Riggins you should hate the fact that he did diddley dick all season except cry in his trailer. The repressed homosexuality concept was a fine track to run with if it went anywhere as a character concept.
Yeah but you get what God gives you. It's a doggy doggy world.
Did you like FNL series bud?
it's cool. i don't lose my head when people disagree with me either. i know what i like and try not to disrespect others, which, apparently, goes against the grain around here.
any hopes for s3? i really think Pizz should go a Bad Lieutenant route with it. a crooked cop trying to gain redemption but his vices just keep getting in the way. set in Cleveland or Atlanta, no more LA, which i am sick and tired of every other crime fiction taking place in.
TD S2 was a true clusterfuck that shows just how important the writing is to any project. It wasn't bad, it was just fucking weird and aimless with no real point and only hints at various through lines and resolutions, and when the resolutions came they felt forced and unclear. Too much stuff was set up, nothing was reined in, it lacked a focussed punch and sprawled out too deep into this catastrophic murder mystery, crime thriller, homeless person police procedural, drug crime, corrupt business, mexican labour, gangster casino, pedo sex cult lodge, fatherhood, homo mercenary, serial killer, land fraud shitheap labyrinth of a show
Yeah, I mean I liked TDs2 but everyone knows it wasn't the same as 1, but that was a cool thing for that guy to say. He sounds like a good character, or at least knows how to act like one.
Don't worry bro, I still follow you on Letterboxd.
The writing was one thing, but if they had a strong directorial hand to slap Pizza's hand away it would have helped immensely. Even if they had kept a blockbuster guy like Lin on the whole time that could have worked, people made dank memes out of him but he gave that first episode a propulsive, pulpy energy the rest of the season could have used.
> Elmore > Ellroy
I love them both but for entirely different reasons. I can't pick one over the other.
>Don't worry bro, I still follow you on Letterboxd.
Impossibru, my account got deleted because I went bit overmeme with shitposting there. They don't appreciate eh, humor like /tv/ does.
I recommend Friday Night Lights with full heart to you
do you have Steam perhaps?
I just feel bad for Lera Lynn because she was legitimately the best part of that season and now she's associated forever with it.
>tfw change will come to
>those who have no fear
>but i'm not her, you never were
>the kind to keep a rulebook near
>WHAT I SAID WAS NEVER
>WHAT I MEANT
>now my world's in flames
>shadow songs, my deep regrets
>weren't we like a pair of thieves
>tumbled locks and broken codes
>you cannot take that from me
>my small reprieves
>your heart of gold
>weren't we like a battlefield
>locked inside a holy war
>your love and my due diligence
>the only thing worth fighting for
Imagine if Sicario was the 2nd season of True Detective for a moment.
More of the calm-as-fuck CIA operator with the moustache.
More desert panning shots as filler
More Brolin chewing gum telling it like it is.
Del Toro working his way up much more slowly, killing nobodies, to footsoldiers, to mini-bosses, to the cartel leader.
>the first season of True Detective was something that Nic Pizzolatto had been thinking about, gestating, for a long period of time. He’s a soulful writer.
That's a convoluted way of saying he ran out of material to plagiarize.
>ran out of material to plagiarize
Noir and mystery writers steal from each other all the time. It's not really that big a deal.
And it's clear that S2 was a giant Ellroy homage, so your hot memes are still in effect.
>mfw I keep forgetting gay cop was in the season at all
I legit want a True Detective season made up of washed-up former stars who mostly do DTV garbage.
Read any book from the LA Quartet and you'll see how Pizza blatantly took the structure and themes from Ellroy, and the gaycop storyline is basically stolen from The Big Nowhere.
true detective s2 was better than fargo and every season of hannibal
the fact that the writer was stressed for time didnt give him enough room to come up with retarded shit and the lord gave us vinceposting
Yeah I felt like the only real thing holding the second season back was Vince's odd death(all that planning and he didn't stuff the diamonds in his ass or sock)
That fat fucking kid and the whore DEA woman had a boring as shit arc
I like season 2.
It had far, far better characters than s1. Rust was pretty cringeworthy when you think about it, and Marty was just a big sack of nothing. Season 1 was saved by the fact that it had such a great story to tell.
It wasn't bad... I... idk. But how could you create a new 'season' of that 'show' after Rust and Woody?
I still think everything in the latter quarter of S1 was just dumb filler to validate Rust's character doing his Hamlet shit on the center stage during the setup. The resolution of S1 was a letdown.
S2............ i just..... I mean it wasn't BAD, i....
You missed the point of Frank's storyline, bruh
He was a thug posturing as a high-class guy who's own personal code of ethics got him killed. I bet you didn't even notice the similarities between Frank and Gaycop, developing their sense of masculinity from films due to lack of strong male role models. I bet you didn't even pick up the theme of fathers, and the comparison to Sodom and Gomorrah/Story of Abraham.
"You were like a son."
How about Rust basically being the story of Job?
/tv/ thinks Pizzo is a bad writer, yet they don't understand character studies or abstract concepts. Not everything needs to be A to B to C, try actually reading something instead of treating everything as if it were a 7th grade essay assignment.
If he intended for True Detective to be a tv show, i can't imagine Pizza to be so retarded that he wouldn't at least outline the plot and characters of at least a couple of more seasons.
I would it to be in alaska, id love them to put in time fuck elements with it being so far north. When you are near or in the arctic circle, tbe perma light of summer and dark of winter can really mess up your time perception and gives a very strange atmosphere. It makes me feel like the far north and south of earth is like one of the edges of a square earth, where tbe world we know just fades into space, much like acsending into the sky. I get the feeling on a plane too, time operates differently, and if you look up, the sky is much darker.
>It makes me feel like the far north and south of earth is like one of the edges of a square earth, where tbe world we know just fades into space
dude you're making me feel all spooky and shit
It's like Ray Davies of The Kinks once said when it was relevant, and it's applicable here too, "You have your whole life to write your first album and six months to write your second."
>thinks one article means that season 1 was better
>Read any book from the LA Quartet and you'll see how Pizza blatantly took the structure and themes from Ellroy, and the gaycop storyline is basically stolen from The Big Nowhere.
Ah, ok. I'll take your word for it since I have no doubt Pizza-man is a complete hack.
This is why we need masculine stories to be told. As affirmative action and gender politics begin to plague the industry, stories of father/son relationships, masculinity etc are incredibly important. Frank's storyline was GOAT. He secured his fate when he burned everything to the ground.
It's like pottery.