>How did the TIE Fighter sink in the sand? >Why did the sand erupt after? >How did the storm trooper remove his glove to bloody Finn's helmet in the middle of dying? >Why did the bog monster on Solo's freighter eat all the whites and asians, but not Finn, dragging him everywhere instead? >How did the Sith Apprentice stop the laser beam mid flight, force choke and pull the guard into an actual choke, but not capable of pulling a light saber out of snow? >How did the Sith Apprentice who had formal training by Luke Skywalker lose a light saber battle to a novice?
I stopped paying attention around the one hour mark into the movie/10
>>64531813 >How did the TIE Fighter sink in the sand? The impact of the TIE and the leaking fuel created a pocket of air and fluid under the sand. The weight eventually pushed the craft down with the rest of the sand that was rushing to fill the hole, creating a bigger hole, that the surrounding sand then rushed in to fill. >Why did the sand erupt after? The weight and pressure created friction and heat that ignited the fuel. >How did the storm trooper remove his glove to bloody Finn's helmet in the middle of dying? He didn't, it was blown off by an explosive. He was still partially ARMored. >Why did the bog monster on Solo's freighter eat all the whites and asians, but not Finn, dragging him everywhere instead? Because it was full, and one member of the Kanjiklub survived. >How did the Sith Apprentice stop the laser beam mid flight, force choke and pull the guard into an actual choke, but not capable of pulling a light saber out of snow? There was no other Force interference. He was also: Bleeding from a wound caused by a rocket propelled grenade wrapped in plasma, emotionally devastated from killing his father, confused as to why he was devastated, in pain from self inflicted wounds, in pain from exertion, in pain from getting popped on the arm, and the Force requires a lot of concentration which he had when he went into any encounter beforehand. >How did the Sith Apprentice who had formal training by Luke Skywalker lose a light saber battle to a novice? See above. He was wrecking her shit until she let the Force in and tapped into the Dark Side. The look on her face and the rage she exuded made it clear - as does the canon novelization. Kylo Ren was also ORDERED by the Supreme Leader to take her alive, he wasn't trying to kill her. When he was trying to kill Finn instead of fucking around he removed his spine with a lightsaber strike after giving him a single punch.
It's clear you stopped paying attention, because children understand these things.
There were some enjoyable moments but all in all I didn't feel much excitement in the end
I'm honestly a little more excited about Rogue One than VIII because I'm having a hard time thinking of these "new" Star Wars as anything other than nostalgia pandering fanfic while at least RO will fit within the canon and universe
it's like how an industry starts off as a bunch of small and medium sized businesses and then as time passes they all merge and merge and merge for max power and profitability until we get these limited mega productions with soft plots and digestible scenes for max profit
The way they're structuring the SW releases like fucking iPhone iterations concerns me
seen it twice already and i would like to see it a third time while it is still in the cinema. thankfully i have a cheap theater which costs $4 a movie ticket so i can see it when it goes there in a couple of weeks.
i used to work at that movie theater and they used to let the staff see movies for free. sometimes i still get in free if i see some old coworkers suck eggs op
>>64531813 >How did the TIE Fighter sink in the sand? Expositional dialogue established that there were parts of the desert with sinking sand. >Why did the sand erupt after? Air displacement? Movie effects. >>How did the storm trooper remove his glove to bloody Finn's helmet in the middle of dying? Cuz he felt like it. On a narrative level to mark Finn so we can differentiate him from the rest, and to symbolically highlight his distress. >Why did the bog monster on Solo's freighter eat all the whites and asians, but not Finn, dragging him everywhere instead? Because Finn is a main character who needed to be in peril without dying, you know, like movies work. Also, maybe the bog monster was full from eating all that chinese food and was dragging him off for leftovers. >>How did the Sith Apprentice stop the laser beam mid flight, force choke and pull the guard into an actual choke, but not capable of pulling a light saber out of snow? Force works in mysterious ways. Lightsabers bond with their users. It's a lightsaber used by the Skywalker family when they walked in the light side of the force, so it ignored him. >How did the Sith Apprentice who had formal training by Luke Skywalker lose a light saber battle to a novice? Wasn't trying to kill her. Was trying to recruit her. But isn't Darth Vader, so instead of disarming her first, he gave her a chance to consider and she used that opportunity to wound him enough to escape.
>I stopped paying attention around the one hour mark into the movie/10 3edgy5me
>>64533168 R2D2 is bonded to both Anakin and Luke Skywalker. Could be that the arrival of another Skywalker woke his ass up. Alternatively, he was guarding an incomplete map and BB-8 held the last piece. Arrival of BB-8 may have woke his ass up. Either way, it's obviously implied that their arrival woke his ass up.
Dreaming of galaxies far, far away in cinemas nearby. Crowds gasp in amazement swinging their hands along with lightsaber movements. Alas, the audience's awe is uninspired. Just like Kylo Ren walks and talks Darth Vader but is afraid he will not surpass his supremacy, Star Wars: The Force Awakens is afraid of treading treading uncharted territory fearing it will not live up to the expectations set by the original trilogy. As a consequence its universe provides nothing but an ersatz adventure.
The banality of the blockbuster serves to suppress the audience's capacity for imagination of better worlds to come. Cool artifice replaces reality. As a spectacle the blockbuster reaches its apex when its whole is self-contained: nothing but images referring to other images of popular culture. In Star Wars: The Force Awakens the universe created is a hodge-podge of familiar elements of its franchise's former glory days. For instance, Rey, who ostensibly is the new Luke Skywalker, originates from a desert planet abandoned by family just as Luke was. The Empire is now called the First Order, ruled by a Sith Lord identical to the Emperor and is still intent on building planet-destroying superweapons containing one fatal construction flaw. Han Solo returns the way the fans were hoping for: flying the Millenium Falcon with Chewie. Sadness of his death stems more from the disappearance of a fan-favorite character than from a tragic narrative.
Mired in self-references, the film ultimately signifies nothing. Its world is a poor substitute of man's innate sense of discovery. Where the literature of J.R.R. Tolkien fills the reader with a sense of wonder, Star Wars: The Force Awakens embodies the estrangement of man in his self-shaped artifice. The creatures wandering about come over as nonsensical and a mere sign of inter-space relations. More importantly, advanced technology is elevated to the fantastical, taking the place of man and nature as the source of all worship. Technique is shown to be a worthy ruler. Megalomaniac spaceships, each one bigger than the other, reveal our complex society's preoccupation with technological advancement. The Star Destroyer is its ultimate fetish.
Star Wars: The Force Awakens is propaganda of seriousness (as defined by Johan Huizinga) in its most deceptive form. The viewer becomes trapped in its numerous winks to the Golden Oldies. He sublimates his innate alienation living in a technical world of artifice into an ersatz adventure. When he leaves the cinema, his critical faculties are weakened. Instead of being awakened, prompted to use his life force, he is lulled to sleep.
haha! Glad you all enjoyed the movie. Make sure to get it on blu-ray and buy the box set when it comes out. Also, don't forget to go to "Disney's Star Wars: The Force Awakens™ Theme Park at Disneyland". Hope you loved it as much as I have directing it! Make sure to buy all our merchandise as well.
>>64533556 I felt like Finn had much more potential, he starts off great but then he's largely reduced to being a comic relief for the majority of the movie. Especially that part about his First Order past that he kept a secret, the movie tried to build it up as a big deal and it could create some tension and distrust with the Resistance but it just fizzles out when he goes "I used to be in the First Order but I'm done with that shit" and everyone is 100% ok with that
>>64533483 First 3 nitpicks are fucking nonsense. Complains that characters are capable of laughing in the face of death and danger. Complains that characters are sympathetic or follow hunches about new droid friends they made. Complains that people know how spaceships work. Mostly incoherent nonsense complaints muddied up by attempts to be 3edgy and confusingly call characters stupid names.
2autistic2consider. Copy your complaints from better sources faggot.
>>64533684 >Star Wars: The Force Awakens embodies the estrangement of man in his self-shaped artifice. The creatures wandering about come over as nonsensical and a mere sign of inter-space relations. More importantly, advanced technology is elevated to the fantastical, taking the place of man and nature as the source of all worship. Technique is shown to be a worthy ruler. Megalomaniac spaceships, each one bigger than the other, reveal our complex society's preoccupation with technological advancement. The Star Destroyer is its ultimate fetish. Couldn't this apply to literally every Star Wars film?
>>64533483 Writing all of this knowing you're not OP, ignore references to "you" 1: It's war. Shit like that happens. Finn realized that the whole struggle was pointless and hurtful, not just that one side was BAD GUYS, hence his reluctance to join up with the Resistance at Maz's castle 2: Lor San Tekka wasn't Poe's mentor. He was a contact he was sent to contact. 3: We see him back pedaling as the air bubbles caused by the terrain inversion start kicking up. 4: Climbing and running are different tasks that use different muscles 5: That guy has already had his ass kicked by Rey, you can tell by their relationship and what she says about him. 6: Because she empathizes with it and has a friend for the first time, she also considers it but decides not to 7: There are a LOT of freighters in the galaxy. Rey has grown up with it. 8: She is shit at flying it, did you see how anxious and nervous she was about it and how she couldn't keep it going in a straight line for a long ass time? 9: He misses a lot, a fucking lot, that's why he cheers and boasts when he finally gets a hit. 10: She recognizes it as a freighter, not the Falcon. She's lived and worked for Plunkt for her whole life. 11: Finn is a First Order trooper raised on propaganda. Rey is a Rebellion fan girl who has a rebel pilot doll she made herself. 12: They got full. Also, one of the Kanjiklubbers survives. 13: Yes this was stupid. 14: You can have toys of myths. See: Jesus action figures. That's also not even remotely Luke's helmet, it's a Yellow Wing helmet. 15: People change their minds after stunning tragedies, wow! 16: He's scared to shit of Kylo Ren. How did you not pick this up? 17: Okay yes this was stupid and forced. GET IT
THIS ENTIRE POST WAS A LEAD UP TO THAT PUNCHLINE
WHICH STILL ISN'T AS FUNNY AS THE PUNCHLINE OF GOD'S GREATEST JOKE: YOU
star wars in 2015 is not the same star wars of 1980. [edit: american] movies have very gradually turned into safe, conventional ultra-clean digital HIGH DEFINITION VIDEO GAME oatmeal mush since the New Hollywood era bit the dust (while TV is finally experiencing its first true creative golden age, if film was the sacrifice then it's legit arguable whether it was worth it). something like 2 years ago i heard jj abrams was directing this, and the feelings i had seconds after the news are about the same feelings i had walking out of the theater. his production company is ironically called Bad Robot, dude's filmmaking is Ubisoft-levels of formulaic. jerk me off with more shots of R2D2 please, the entire audience is autoerotically assfixiating like jabba for you. nothing is earned, lightning never struck the same place twice, fuck you jj abehole i hope i see you in my dreams so you can ruin those too scifi rapist
don't listen to me though, 9 out of 10 modern popcorn chompin professional critics opened their bookmarked thesauruses so you could feel a little communal hype for something in ur sad life god fuck look what you did abrams you are the bane of my existence, hope your shareholders are happy
Fuck no. Anyone who goes out of their way to see "fun" movies is a hopeless pleb. Making your movie fun and not giving a shit about the art is the equivalent of using pathos in a debate; people might be too polite to criticize you, but anyone with intelligence knows you're just an idiot.
Just got home from watching it. It was very *meh*. The visual effects were great, but the story just felt so damn forced (no pun intended). Deus ex machina every 30 seconds. It was like the creative team came up with enough neat material for two or three films and then they were told to cram it all in to one.
Kylo Ren was pretty underwhelming as a villain. "I'm afraid I won't be as powerful as Vader". Cunt, Vader inspired fear and awe just by entering the room. The first time you saw him on frame, you knew 'this is a bad ass motherfucker'. You sound like a nerdy accountant in a gas mask, you look like one, and you just don't have any presence on the screen (masked or not).
Rey... WTF? She goes from being a junk merchant to controlling the minds of stormtroopers in what seemed like 10 minutes. And both her and Fin just pick up a lightsaber and are able to kick ass? Until they got him into the cockpit, Luke spent ANH as a complete nerf-herded, way out of his league and barely keeping up.
Damnit, I was just *meh* about it before I started typing, but now I'm pissed off at this pile of crap.
Just saw it a third time. It's flawed, but not to the extent that I think /tv/ wishes it was (some of you sincerely expected it to flop and now you're eating your balls over how completely off the mark you were)
I'm hoping the more cryptic things like the flashback/force vision are done with some kind of plan in mind, and not just vague bullshit slapped together to create mystique the way something like Kingdom Hearts does.
Honestly it's just nice to see the series being tended to by someone who isn't an abusive parent.
I hate how there was no world-building or exposition in this movie (set 30 fucking years after ROTJ, when people have been wondering for 35 years IRL what happened to the galaxy after Death Star II blew up) beyond just the narrow view of the characters. Even A New Hope talked about the Clone Wars, the Republic becoming an Empire, and the exterminate of the Jedi.
It was fun but had too much stupid shit to be called 'good'. Not really bad either. The combined enjoyment I got from watching it/laughing at the bullshit/shitposting about it here was totally worth.
Rey's a mary sue and you'd have to be some kind of biased tard to deny it but everything points to them setting her up to go dark side so it might be justified after the whole arc. The final fight was handled like shit though.
>>64531813 I feel bad for you because you can't enjoy a movie because everything isn't spoon fed to you and you don't have enough imagination to fill in the blanks. It must feel sad to not be able to enjoy simple things like movies because you are so anal retentive about minuscule and unimportant details.
>>64535285 >>muh constant ackshun It's not about action, it's about articulating what's happening through visuals and small character interactions. The shot of the downed Star Destroyer and Rey's reaction to Finn mentioning Luke say more than 10 minutes of expository dialogue ever could.
>enjoy this series getting Star Trek'd 09 Star Trek is a fucking fantastic film and much better than The Force Awakens.
>>64535269 Well I'm just glad TFA had good characters like: racist charicature in space and STRONG INDEPEDENT FEMALE WHO DONT NEED NO HAND HOLDING AMIRITE LADIES. I'm also glad the movie had good mise-en-scene like J.J. "Cheap Spielberg" Abrams is famous for.
>>64535343 the SD and finn dont say anything. it says they heard about the OT. the film desperately needed exposition. when han picked them up the time was fucking perfect for some exposition, let han tell the story of whats happened since ROTJ. instead of that we got fucking TELL THAT TO KANJIKLUB.
>>64535467 >the SD and finn dont say anything. The star destroyer articulates the passage of time since the OT, that Jakku is a junkyard, and that Rey is a scavenger. Rey's reaction to Finn mentioning Luke demonstrates how the events of the OT have passed into legend, and that Luke's story is told throughout the galaxy. Always better to show than to say.
>>64535601 i get what youre saying but thats very little exposition. i mean the least amount possible. we needed more and han was the perfect character to tell us. they made him the obi wan character but didnt have him do obi wan stuff. shit obi told everyone what we needed to know about luke, his father, vader, the force, and the empire in about 10 minutes. all im asking for is 10 fucking minutes of exposition on the falcon instead of the rathtarr scene. they missed that mark so hard.
also with R2D2, all they needed to do was have 3PO say that he was computing something and was shutting down auxillary systems to boost his processing, then when R2 wakes up 3PO can say oh my, he found it! and then cut to the luke scene.
simple things like this would have elevated the movie, instead we got a mystery box and conveniences
>>64535701 Finn turns because it's the first time he's experienced combat up close, and it got to him. He starts shooting his compatriots in self-defense. They attempt to fill him after he defects, and his only chance of survival is to shoot back. The film also establishes that the brainwashing sometimes doesn't take (it happens in real life; there are cases of indoctrinated North Koreans escaping).
None of that is mentioned or asserted. We don't know the depth of his experience. His only mention of it is "I couldn't do it anymore" or some dumb fucking line to that effect. And then he turns on a dime and starts cutting down his old mates in battle.
See, that's where your whimsical, flitting shots doing all the "exposition" fails, it really doesn't flesh the whole story out. I don't know who the fuck Finn is and I have a hard time caring about him at all, same with Rey. Poe's just a Chad.
These characters seem so superficial precisely because we only know them for what they do in the movie.
>>64535818 and i get that, however we see him get fucking traumatized by his comrade dying and leaving the hand print on his helmet. he seems like he doesnt like killing at all. considering that these troopers are now child soldiers, i dont get why he suddenly changes and kills his comrades when just watching a fellow soldier of his die made him question the first order.
a better way to show this would have him not wanting to fire on the escape from the star destroyer, and poe pressuring him into firing. then his hesitance almost gets them killed when they get shot down and he has a revelation. its kill or be killed
>>64535894 See>>64535860 The fact that you actually want characters to flat-out state their emotional arcs rather than experiencing them is fucking staggering. This isn't a television series, you don't have 5 episode arcs that let you articulate every aspect of a character's backstory.
>>64535997 >Tree of Life has no right being mentioned in the same sentence as 2001. They're actually very similar if you had the wherewithal to understand thematic content, and had the same effects supervisor.
I get it man. You don't like Star Wars' style. You prefer a different genre of film.
As it stands, it isn't enough to make a movie like this in the context of the Star Wars universe and how it operates as a soap opera. It felt cheap, rushed, and generic, like Star Trek 2009, which while I remember being a good film, I can't remember almost anything of it other than that, not even the characters.
>>64536046 They're similar in very superficial bullshit ways. Oh they both begin with extreme flashbacks. Oh they both have ambiguous endings. Eat a dick dipshit. You ain't know a fucking thing about 2001.
>>64536019 finn is fucking brutal with the stormtroopers dude. he gets the lightsaber and fucking runs one through without a second thought.
the point is there is no hesitation. from what you see with him early the nigga doesnt like war. he doesnt like people dying. WHERE IS THE CONFLICTION. HE DOESNT EVEN LIKE WHEN STORMTROOPERS DIE BUT LOL NOW THEYRE SHOOTING AT ME SO NOW IM GOING TO BRUTALLY KILL THEM EVERY CHANCE I GET.
he comes off as a wimp early on and then that gets thrown aside so he can blast stormtroopers
him hesitating during the tie escape would have done loads for his character. im not saying dont shoot, im saying be conflicted and act like what youre doing is weighing on you. not "WOO DID YOU SEE THAT DID YOU SEE THAT" it makes the dude look like hes having the time off his life when apparently he got fucking traumatized over a damn stormtrooper dying in front of him.
>>64532064 >He was also: Bleeding from a wound caused by a rocket propelled grenade wrapped in plasma, emotionally devastated from killing his father, confused as to why he was devastated, in pain from self inflicted wounds, in pain from exertion, in pain from getting popped on the arm,
>>64535860 so they cant take ten minutes out of a 2 hour movie to explain basic shit? fuck star wars is normie tier and i guarantee you they needed exposition. fuck i wanted it, i wanted to know what happened after endor, i wanted to know why the resistance and first order exist, i want to know what happened with fucking han and why he left. none of this is ever explained and we have to guess. HAN COULDVE SAID THIS IN TEN MINUTES SHIT HE COULDVE EVEN BEEN CRYPTIC ABOUT WHY HE LEFT AND IT STILL WOULDVE BEEN GOOD. all of this was lost so we could have fucking kanjiklub
"star wars is such a shit franchise. let's go over something real quick. in high school, they make you read books, and everything has meaning, right? the wilting rose is a metaphor for end of the roaring 20s. the teacup symbolizes the characters inability to deal with loss ---'are you sure? that doesn't make sense' ---"oh no it most certainly is, everything in literature has meaning, metaphor it's all there.".. For yeears this is what teachers are drilling into you, of course theyre right, that's the way it is. then at film school i learned the same is true for film.. so-and-so's face is backlit because the director wanted to show that capitalism leads to darkness... the fence is missing some slats at the end to show that even in prison it is possible to fleeting moments of freedom, whatever... every lighting decision and position of the object or whatever, film is the highest form of art, yada yada..... nothing is a mistake, the door left open, the color of the wallpaper, the glance away, the choice of lens--in a well put together film, everything is deliberate, the aim being to convey whatever feeling or idea or further the theme we're gonna get back to that in a minute
>>64536284 They did explain why he left. The fuck movie where you watching? When his son turned into a piece of shit and destroyed the academy he and Leia had a falling out and he left and reverted to his old ways. Try harder retard.
the original three star wars films were really cool. The special effects were the best ever, practical effects and matte paintings beat CGI any day, even now, still... CGI looks like shite compared to a huge oil matte painting and camera tricks, and if you don't agree or can't see it then you just have bad eyes... sorry to be so harsh but it's obviously true... my ears are bad, i don’t argue with audiophiles with high-end headphones and DACs about how much bitrate you need, so if you think CGI is good you shouldn’t argue with people with functional eyes original star wars had cool characters even though there was some jokey shit in there with the ewoks or ewons or whatever the little things were, red letter media has a great series of videos breaking the original star wars down and comparing to episodes I II and III --https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI episodes i ii and iii were so bad it was like that movie 'The Room' with that ugly long haired guy only it's worse because so much time and effort was spent making that crap. these are movies that appeal to 4-year olds because 4-year olds are mentally deficient... autists (actual ones) like these movies because there are no facial expressions or emotions to interpret. star wars fans will desperately try to find reasons to justify how theyre good, but if these weren’t branded ‘Star Wars’ and were just generic space opera movies, they would have a weird shitty cult following like those nigerian action movies and people would have ‘awkward star wars’ viewing parties.. they are genuine serious shit
after these movies were made, anyone who seriously thinks of them selves as a star wars fan is basically a toddler with a shiny lunchbox. youre taking a speeder to Naboo, the galactic counsil, me-sa show you to gungan.. how much time was spent going over the script making sure it had enough toddler words. theres almost more dignity being a furry than being a fan of this shit. and if you spend any time reading about it or thinking about it youll also know that george lucas is just hosing you down in the face.. this is a picture of how lucas treats his fans:http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/8/73175.jpg (who can really blame him by the way) sorry for sperging out. i'll get to the point. look at the picture gentlemen. she is holding a 4-ft long black cock, grimacing like she's taking cock in the ---, orgasm face black guy behind her, sex explosion in the background, little peach/flesh-tone white guy robot watching on helpless. Sorry that's just the way it is... this is written by someone with very little tolerance for, and minimal knowledge of, the usual conspiracy theory stuff……. this fact is just something you have to face and accept if we're agreeing on the premise that filmmakers use symbolism. Do you think filmmakers use symbolism? or are films just pretty pictures, and books just fancy words? well here's a pic of a white girl getting steamrolled by a black guy while a cuck droid watches, and it's more cut and dry than anything in Citizen Kane. disagree? then youre either a dope or you have some sort of ideology that won't allow you to see it
>>64536363 they implied it when han and leia talked about kylo. we literally dont know what happened with kylo, everything is conjecture other than he turned to the dark side because of snoke. its all fanfiction at this point.
i dont even want han to really explain it, like i said he can be cryptic and say anything like "thats something i dont want to get in to" and thats fine. just at least say something. we barely learned anything during the movie
Nothing about high-level film-making is accidental, nothing about a 10 billion dollar movie that the whole country is going to see is accidental. it's not my business what you do with this information, you can delve deep into conspiracy theory, or you and your wife can start taking refugees in your home, whatever, drive to oregon with canteens and rations and other stuff, whatever you want to do, but the factual information that you cant argue with is that some people with a lot of money and country-wide influence and an indirect link to the minds of everyone's children, Want You To Think About White Girls And You Know What (the thing in her hand in every shot), and the subjugation of White Masculinity into little rolling bouncing baby balls. that is an unbiased take that anyone with a brain and a rudimentary understanding of film/entertainment should be able to see."
>>64536400 >Turns off targeting >Use the force luke >Let go >Trust me >closes eyes >fires >magic torpedo goes in hole Nigga unambiguously used the force to destroy the deathstar. Quit trying to change historical fact to fit your idiot argument about a magic space movie
>>64536457 >we literally dont know what happened with kylo, everything is conjecture other than he turned to the dark side because of snoke. its all fanfiction at this point.
We LITERALLY do know that Luke started an academy. Kylo was a padawan. Kylo betrayed Luke and destroyed the academy. Luke went into hiding. Han went back to smuggling. We LITERALLY know this through expository dialogue in the movie. These were all things that were said.
>>64535074 Using the force doesn't. Kicking the ass of another space wizard who has ten years more experience doing space magic in a universe where your ability to do space magic scales with experience probably should.
>A bloo bloo he was injured Which didn't stop him from throwing her 30 feet into a tree.
>>64536060 09 Star Trek is the best high budget film since the Fellowship of the Ring. It's actually a better Star Wars film than The Force Awakens. People who disparage it are mongoloids and pedophelic Trek purists.
nope. these things were implied. only things were said were that luke went away and kylo turned to the dark side. not once do we hear about kylo being an apprentice to luke, im actually watching the movie now
>>64536703 >I can buy a guy hitting a target perfectly while moving hundred of miles per hour without the aid of his computer >I can't take an injured guy losing in a fight to someone the film establishes early on is experienced in combat sexism is the only explanation
>>64536703 >Ignoring that he wasn't trying to kill her >Ignoring that he was trying to recruit her >Ignoring that he dominated the fight until he gave her a chance to consider his offer >Ignoring that it was his hesitation that allowed her to hurt him enough to get away
Vader literally disarmed Luke before he offered him a job. The entire point of Kylo's character is that, even though he really wants to be, he will never be Vader. Rey didn't "kick his ass." Kylo goofed.
>>64536742 >only things were said were that luke went away and kylo turned to the dark side
"He was training a new generation of Jedi. There was no one else left to do it, so he took the burden on himself. Everything was going good, until one boy, an apprentice, turned against him and destroyed it all. Everything Luke had worked toward: gone. Luke felt responsible. He walked away from everything."
>>64536070 >Please!...Don't mention Lincoln! Something terrible happened to me once on Lincoln's birthday! I was six or seven. I had the day off from school. Mama let me go to the park. She made me a peanut butter and jelly sandwich... This man with a beard and a hat just like Abe Lincoln....I remember, Oh, God!... >Honey, I really don't think we have time for this right now.
Of course it was a fuck you movie, that's what makes it so great. It's like they were so disgusted at making a soulless corporate sequel they turned it into parody.
>>64536179 The Tree of Life is literally about the evolution of life. 2001 is literally about evolution, and the transcendence of humanity into a new form. They're thematically similar movies, you smegpot.
>>64536885 Hitting a small target as you're movie without the aid of computer assistance is isn't in any way more believable than kicking someones ass. There are literally people you can beat up right now. Fuck, you could probably beat up like half of the planet if you're a man. You can't hit a moving target at sub-sonic speeds.
>>64537059 Luke - uses the Force to help him make a shot that he said he could make (womp rats)
Rey - uses the Force (with 0 prior training) to win a lightsaber duel against someone infinitely more experienced in using the Force and lightsabers
Why are we still comparing those two characters? Ever since TFA premiered I've seen those Luke/Rey comparisons shot down 100 times a days and Reyfags still come back with those same retarded arguments in a new thread just to have them debunked for the 101st time
>>64537338 The writing apparently actually explained the stupidest part (the duel). It made it more clear the injury and killing his dad where holding him back. Whereas the fight choreography didn't focus on his injury at all and he somehow managed to get up there and throw her like a doll before being de-powered.
>>64537435 why are Jedi being trained from a very young age if there's no difference between using it at a very basic level and using it to defeat someone who should've wiped the floor with you and all this is learnable by yourself in just a day?
>>64537442 >Whereas the fight choreography didn't focus on his injury at all Oh, so you didn't see the film? You didn't see the part where he kept hitting his injury, or where he faltered against Finn due to exhaustion?
>>64537567 He hit his injury once, and it looked more like he was pumping himself up than anything else.
Faltered against Finn? Looked more like he was playing with him to me. And directly after getting ANOTHER injury he continues to fight Rey with no apparent reduction in speed or power (until the retarded moment where she overpowers him physically)
>>64537547 Because it was made for retards who want to force to be a straight up dues ex machina narrative device for any situation (like magically teaching you swordfighting) instead of a tool that could nudge you in a slightly better direction.
>>64537567 That's not part of the fight choreography, downie. It was clear he was injured but not clear what places in his fight with rey it impaired him. Competently done he should have been limping around but still kicking their asses anyway until she managed to hit him in the wound or something.
Of course you ignore the 30 feet into a tree part because you have no answer.
>>64537547 Being a jedi isn't about how many force powers you know, just like being a shaolin monk isn't just about the martial art moves themselves. Rey isn't a jedi anon. Using the force doesn't make you a jedi, being a jedi is a philosophy about using the force. That philosophy is what Yoda is teaching Luke on Dagobah.
This idea that jedi training is a literal school where you get practice lightsabers when you're 5 years old is prequel shit.
>>64537069 Can't find the exact quote, it's clearly laid out in his conversation with Leia. But's lets run through the provided context clues. We are told and shown that Han and Leia had a son, we are told that that son was force sensitive, and destroyed the Jedi academy. We know that after that at some point Han went back to smuggling. He was always a space-cowboy, and that kind of heartbreak sent him back to his old ways. We don't need explicit expository dialogue to explain what happened when we know the characters as well as we do, and we know what happened before they parted ways.
If this was anything other than Star Wars, and we were anywhere other than /tv/ the amount of exposition we are getting about what Han was up to the last 30 years with that minimal amount of dialogue would be considered grade A filmmaking. SHOW, don't TELL. The fact that details are left to the imagination is exactly what makes for A COMPELLING STORY. It affords the audience to use their imagination. It's the kind of thing that made the original trilogy so GODDAMN GOOD.
Obi-Wan in ANH mentions "The Clone Wars." He looks off with a half smile when he thinks of Anakin and muses that "he was a good friend." That's the extent of exposition we got about the last 30 years of his life, and what we imagined their relation would have been like was so overwhelmingly better than what we got.
Alright, screener downloaded.
"I've always hated watching you leave." "Thats what I did, so you'd miss me." "I did miss you." "It wasn't all bad, was it? Some of it was even... good." "Some things never change." HUG "If you see our son, bring him home." WE KNOW EVERYTHING WE NEED TO KNOW
>>64537920 >That philosophy is what Yoda is teaching Luke on Dagobah. Another thing that Yoda says is that learning all that shit takes time and patience, not LOL JUST CLOSE YOUR EYES THINK OF THE FORCE AND BECOME SUPER SAIYAN XD
>>64538091 When they're in Yoda's hut and Yoda argues with Obi Wan's ghost. He says that Luke's too old and has no patience, at that point in time Luke is about 25 years old so both of those things imply that learning the ways of the Force is not something that you accomplish in a few hours after learning about its existence
>>64537254 >Luke - uses the Force to help him make a shot that he said he could make (womp rats) While flying a fighter jet he's never been in before, with no evidence he's ever even been in a fighter jet before. To destroy an entire fucking death star.
>Rey - uses the Force (with 0 prior training) to win a lightsaber duel against someone infinitely more experienced in using the Force and lightsabers Rey-Defends herself against someone who wasn't trying to kill her, takes advantage of his pausing to hurt him enough to escape.
Cry about it faggot. DAE HATE HOW UNBELIEVABLE THIS SPACE FANTASY MOVIE IS?!?!?
>>64538183 Jedi training is not about learning new force powers you fuck. Patience is not required to use the force, just to learn the ways of the jedi. Again, being a jedi means following a philosophy. Luke isn't too old to be able to use the force, just too old to learn the Jedi way of doing it responsibly.
Not all force users have to be jedi. When Obi-Wan says it's dangerous to go face Vader without finishing the training, he isnt talking about Luke being cut in half or haivng enough points in telekinesis yet. If, like Obi-wan then tells Luke, the danger in not finishing your Jedi training is being more subceptible to the dark side then it stands to reason that the training is about philosophy and discipline, not an actual measure of ability.
>>64538196 Almost like she's the new hero of the Skywalker story or something. Almost like the child of Luke Skywalker would be naturally more force-aware than the child of his shitty sister. Almost like there's overwhelming precedent for Skywalkers to be super good at doing magic.
>>64538335 >Not all force users have to be jedi. When Obi-Wan says it's dangerous to go face Vader without finishing the training, he isnt talking about Luke being cut in half or haivng enough points in telekinesis yet. If, like Obi-wan then tells Luke, the danger in not finishing your Jedi training is being more subceptible to the dark side then it stands to reason that the training is about philosophy and discipline, not an actual measure of ability. its both of these things in that situation since luke can barely move his lightsaber with telekinesis
>>64538266 >While flying a fighter jet he's never been in before, with no evidence he's ever even been in a fighter jet before. To destroy an entire fucking death star. It's explicitly said that look is a good pilot. It is explicitly said that he's experienced with a T-16 which is similar to an X-wing. And it's explicitly said that he bullseyed womp rats that are no bigger than the Death Star opening. I swear all of you faggots hating on ANH Luke literally never saw ANH.
>Rey-Defends herself against someone who wasn't trying to kill her, takes advantage of his pausing to hurt him enough to escape. She doesn't defend herself, she straight up curbstomps him after closing her eyes and remembering the Force. She doesn't get in a cheap shot when he's not expecting it and running away. She literally overpowers him in physical combat, throws him to the ground and Kylo is saved by a chasm in the ground
>>64538380 >Almost like she's the new hero of the Skywalker story or something. Almost like the child of Luke Skywalker would be naturally more force-aware than the child of his shitty sister. Almost like there's overwhelming precedent for Skywalkers to be super good at doing magic. so that explains why luke wasn't able to use the force until he net yoda
>>64538326 You can admit that you wanted to dislike it, and the confirmation bias is strong in you, if you'd like. I grew up on OT. Was the reason I wanted to work in production. TFA was almost everything I wanted to see in a Star Wars sequel. I'm just not some edgy /tv/fag that wants to hate things. I just have a compulsive drive towards arguing with stupid, stubborn people.
>>64538538 By a complete accident. He had a heightened sense of reflex because of the Force which helped him pilot ships, he had no control of it. And he literally blew it up by pressing random buttons in the cockpit.
>>64538472 >it doesn't matter that he was moving around just as well as her >his speed and strength stats were probably reduced even if you can't see it >i fucking still can't explain why he doesn't just throw her 30 feet with the force again
>>64538437 Luke doesn't beat Vader in RotJ because he's learned enough lightsaber moves or force powers, he uses the dark side to beat the shit out him in a sudden power boost. See until the prequels, lightsaber ability was just a reflection of that person's relative knowledge of the force.
This idea that using a lightsaber is somehow a separate skill you can learn without the force is general grievous shit. Or like the idea that Mace Windu isn't the best force user but he is the best saber user. Fuck that shit, it's dumb and treats the force like another mundane skill you learn through muscle memory and makes lightsabers just literal swords instead of a mystical weapon.
It's not like anyone trained Luke in lightsaber fighting anyway, it's just about using the force not unlock blocking laser bolts. The force will guide you if you let it and that's all Rey does to beat Kylo. You know what makes Luke a jedi? It's not beating Vader in a fight, it's not blowing up the death star or choking out pigs. Wars not make one great. Luke is a Jedi because he threw down his weapon and refused the dark side. The important aspect of Jedi training is NOT how much power you accrue.
>>64538644 The only reason one would call it dogshit is that it goes against established lore. Otherwise it's just a super hero origin story of a somone discovering their powers. Is Harry Potter a Mary Sue?
>>64538655 >Ignoring the previous majority of the fight so she defends herself without even using the Force, which is bullshit in itself
>Ignoring that she "curb stomps" him by disarming his sword and slightly wounding him after she is "awoken." She overpowers him, disarms him and gets in a clear strike. You can't beat someone in a duel in a more obvious and clear way.
>Confirmed for 90's fag. That scene wasn't added until the 1997 re-release. When we get a TFA re-release that makes the character and the movie make sense I'll stop criticising it
>>64538727 >The important aspect of Jedi training is NOT how much power you accrue. Which doesn't change the fact that your amount of power scales with your training despite how much you want all conflicts to be resolved by 'plot fairies have spoken she wins now'.
YES. That's the fucking point with why the whole Mary Sue criticism is retarded. Frodo, Bilbo, HP, Neo, and almost every other fantasy protagonist fits the criteria for the "Mary Sue" trope. Which is why it's fucking stupid to try and apply it to protagonists. They're supposed to have elements of wish fulfillment, they're supposed to be audience surrogates, they're supposed to likable, they're supposed to people that characters want to interact with. Mary Sue was a trope created to describe tertiary characters who are skilled beyond their station.
>>64538728 The pre established lore in TPM was that Anakin was highly Force sensitive which manifested itself in his heightened reflexes. He had 0 control of the Force until we see him again in AotC 10 years later
Yeah it was pretty much what I expected. I'm glad they avoided most of the prequel problems but I wish it had taken its time a little bit more and had cut out some of the unnecessary banter / callbacks. Loved all the alien designs on jakku and that droid in Maz' castle was fine as fuck.
>>64538805 >Which doesn't change the fact that your amount of power scales with your training Which is why Luke beat Vader, right? Power levels like that can't be applied to Star Wars. It isn't just this simple math of years of training times the force coefficient equals force power.
>>64538815 No most characters aren't, dipshit. They have flaws and overcome challenges with previously established skills. If frodo was rey the nazgul would come around tracking him and he'd make an angry face and stab it until some eagles dragged him away.
>>64538815 Jesus fucking Christ, go read LotR and the Hobbit right now because you're arguing about characters you clearly don't know. Frodo struggles the entire journey and would've gotten slaughtered a 1000 times on his way to Mordor if it wasn't for his friends, Bilbo is a part of a crew for his one specific skill and gets carried by his friends in situations that he's not suited to. Both of them have great character archs that have them defeat adversity by overcoming their shortcomings. Rey faces no adversity that she can't overcome in a minute
>>64538758 >so she defends herself without even using the Force, which is bullshit in itself Yeah that person who grew up on a hostile desert planet and learned how to defend themselves, defending themselves... is such bullshit.
>She overpowers him, disarms him and gets in a clear strike. You can't beat someone in a duel in a more obvious and clear way.
Uhhhhhhhhh you can fucking kill them. She broke his sword and cut his face.
>When we get a TFA re-release that makes the character and the movie make sense I'll stop criticising it Oh I guarantee you'll be defending TFA in 2 years when VIII comes out, or Avatar 2 threatens to overtake TFA's box office, or whatever memey faggy bullshit determines the will of the /tv/ hivemind. Go watch Attack of the Clones nerd.
I always had the impression with Harry that he had to live up to his legend, but wasn't sure how. A lot of the books are him, at school, going around to different friends and teachers, figuring out how to solve problems.
In the OT Luke has the same deal- he's talented with the force, but there's scenes about him learning how to use it, right? He has to train under Obi-Wan and Yoda, and learn to really balance his feelings.
Rey just seems to have a knack for everything- she can pilot anything, use a lightsaber with no training, is able to fight off multiple men with melee skill alone, and seems to learn the force without ever even meeting a friendly Jedi until the very end of the movie.
>>64538950 >They have flaws and overcome challenges with previously established skills.
Rey demostrates multiple flaws throughout the story. And how ironic that you mention "with previously established skills." Her fighting abilities, and her knowledge of spacecraft are overwhelmingly clearly established in the first act. Try again faggot.
Normally okay just watching a movie blindly, and just enjoying mindless fun; but because of the weight and implication of the continuation of Star Wars I've put a lot more thought behind it, and the more and more I rehash the movie the worst it gets for me.
Every single new character is thin as fuck, and the only new character with any depth (Kylo Ren) is a bitchy weak fuck.
>>64539094 >Her fighting abilities Against random mooks using a totally different weapon who can not throw her 30 feet through the air. >and her knowledge of spacecraft Isn't being criticized you strawmanning fucktard.
>Rey demostrates multiple flaws throughout the story. Oh please share these flaws. Like how she only managed to invent jedi mind control on her third try.
>>64538971 >the force is not primarily about belief >LUKE: I don't... I don't believe it. >YODA: That is why you fail. Don't be stupid.
>>64539010 I'm not making a strawman, I was talking about RotJ the entire time. You're trying to disagree with part of what I said and pretending like the end of RotJ is just this separate entity that is in no way related. So I'll ask you again, did Luke beat Vader because he was better at lightsaber fighting?
>>64539059 I was specifically replying to "power levels scale with training," there's no way Luke caught up and surpassed Vader in force training by RotJ. Pay attention to what I'm responding to so you don't take it out of context.
>>64539167 >oh, I need to scavenge for a living >no problem, I am an expert scavenger >oh, I need to defend myself from multiple attackers >no problem, I am an expert in melee combat >oh, I need to fly a ship I've never flown before >no problem, I am an expert pilot >oh, I need to fix a ship I've never flown before >no problem, I just happen to know that ship better than someone who owned it for decades >oh, I need to defend myself from stormtroopers >no problem, I am an expert blaster shooter >oh, I need to get out of a tough spot >no problem, I am an expert Force user >oh, I need to win a lightsaber duel >no problem, I am an expert lightsaber duelist and a Force user Character progression in TFA
>>64539245 >there's no way Luke caught up and surpassed Vader in force training by RotJ sure there is. vader is half robot and it's been long enough to build half a death star. it's a lot more believable that luke bridged the gap between his and vader's training than 10+ years for ren vs literally nothing. story shit can happen but when it completely throws previously understood inequalities away instead of working them in interesting ways it makes the story meaningless and boring
>>64539198 Character arcs aren't determined by whether or not a person is physically capable of overcoming obstacles. ALL protagonists will inevitably overcome obstacles.
Her flaws are rooted in her character motivation, which is quite dynamic and she makes a significantly greater character transition than her dad did. Her flaws were rooted in her inability to move on, and her fear of embracing the unseen challenges that lie ahead of her.
Her story arc isn't about her literally learning how to be better at karate. It's about letting go of the past and embracing an unknown future. It's what is known as the call to action. First act of the hero's journey. Part one of a trilogy. King Arthur didn't pull the sword from the stone because of a training montage where he learned how best to pull swords from stones. He did it because he was the person who was supposed to do it. He was the hero. King Arthur confirmed for Mary Sue.
>>64535860 2001 is shit cause it leaves out story and replaces it with muh art. Also, too-long shots. Remember how Spaceballs made fun of the opening scene by having the not-Star Destroyer take lile more than a minute to go by instead of seconds? That's how 2001 is.
The book is way better. I was so disappointed with the movie, man. Makes the compressing of Akira as movie look tame in comparison.
>>64539427 >inevitably some sooner and with less work than others
that's not a flaw. that's her motivation which completely changes when midget glasses alien tells her to get a different one
no, king arthur fails at things. he doesn't start beating lancelot in fights because 'lol protagonist'. he just pulls a sword out of a stone and builds other skills from there. your retarded attempts to pretend succeeding at anything is the same as excelling at everything are obvious
>>64539503 > think star wars is good vs evil not nice girl vs her insecurities
Luke goes through the EXACT SAME GODDAMN ARC IN THE SECOND FILM. Only difference is in the first movie, he wanted an adventure, then got what he asked for and wasn't ready for it. Rey, on the other hand, just wanted her family back, and had to learn to let go of the past and move forward. Her arc is, dynamically, much more compelling.
>>64539388 Using your power level logic, Luke surpassed Obi-Wan with just a few days of training with a master and a few months of dicking around on his own. Not bad, really shows how important that from youngling age proper jedi training is.
>>64539370 Is all you have smug greentexts that don't actually bring up any new information? At least when I'm smug with greentext it's because I'm giving direct Yoda quotes, you're just using reductio ad absurdum.
>>64539415 Okay just glossing over one or two things you have wrong (who cares, you have more actual evidence so we can just press on) are you wondering what Rey's arc is?
I thought you were listing why she's a Mary Sue but now that you clarify it's about preexisting skills and easy coming abilities (marks of a mary sue to be sure) but it seems like you're really making a complaint about her having no development. Is that right?
7 was utterly uninspired dreck. At least the prequels had potential to have been a good story if Lucas got a different director. My main issues were
1. Pacing. JJ does not know why one would ever do things any slower than 'as fast as possible'. Characters are all conveniently in the right place at the right time. Always. You are never more than 10 minutes from an action scene. The movie encourages you to shut your brain off.
2. Character development and Mary Suedom. Rey has all sorts of skills that she shouldn't have, her vision shows her being dropped off on nottooine as a young child. She has never left the planet. How the fuck does she know how to fly a ship better than trained military pilots? Her mechanical aptitude makes sense, she makes a living scavenging valuable starship parts. Her Jedi development is the most bullshit in particular.
Another aspect of the Sue she embodies is the 'everyone instantly likes her' trope. Finn instantly wanted to save her, Kylo was immediately obsessed with her, Han wanted to make her second mate, Chewie liked her, Leia gave her a motherly hug, and I'm sure Luke will immediately love her too.
3. Antagonists are incompetent foils. Rey defeats Ren both mentally and physically at the very start of their character arcs, despite Ren being shown to be much better trained. Phasma does literally fucking nothing except sabotaging her own organization. Snoke just sits there and tells people to do shit. Shit, Poe is emasculating the primary antagonist of the film within 5 minutes of it starting. It doesn't help that Ren is also established as a linkin park fan.
4. Plot was a facile pastiche of the old movies with basically no new ideas. Or let me rephrase that, no new good ideas. The CGI tentacle monster labyrinth scene was kind of new, but also god awful.
>>64539640 old ass obi-wan who literally lets himself be killed. thanks for pointing out how much less retarded this is than if obi-wan just get knocked into a coma by a laser sword and luke was about to kill vader until space elves teleported him away
>>64539640 >you're really making a complaint about her having no development Those two issues are intertwined since a big part of her being a Mary Sue is her ability to start excelling at any given ability in a matter of seconds. Hence her development feels unsatisfying.
>Han hands her a blaster >Rey has no idea how to use it >Han tells her she has to remove the safety blockade >Rey has to shoot stormtroopers >removes the blockade >misses the first shot >becomes an expert marksman and shoots a bunch of stormtroopers
>>64539631 >EXACT SAME GODDAMN ARC im sorry i thought luke in empire strikes back was dealing with the lingering evil/grossness inside himself with yoda's help?
rey does want to let go of her family, which is an arc i guess. but i don't really care about her family, as a viewer. it just looks like she's being dumb for no reason, thinking her family will come back, and then she stops doing that while she fights evil super well, but idk not believably
i guess you're saying it doesn't matter that she's suddenly a super extra good jedi?
>>64539617 You don't know what a character flaw is.
And again, you seem to be failing to acknowledge that Rey spends literally the entire movie freaking out and struggling to survive. She manages to NOT DIE in the end because, guess what, she's the fucking protagonist. They don't die. That doesn't mean she just breezed through things to any extent involving less stress then Bilbo or Neo or any other adventure protagonist.
And I guaranfuckingtee that had she been saved in the Kylo fight you faggots would be complaining just as much about how useless she was. You're a part of a hivemind, parroting shit smarter people said, to talk shit about a space movie, and none of these complaints will fucking matter one bit after the circlejerk gets distracted. Flavor of the week.
Films above average. Narratively it almost nails it. And the Mary Sue trope doesn't really apply to protagonists, because they all generally are. Gotta sleep now. hellogoodbye
>>64539791 maybe that's related to how you maintain interest in conflicts that are all 'oh no i need X ability. wow i just gained X ability!'
>>64539850 i'm assuming ren is going to come kick her ass at some point just to inject some kind of semblance of tension back into the story but that doesn't make how they handled this movie any less stupid
>>64539912 Almost all protagonist manage to overcome their challenges. And she does fail at not getting captured. And quite a few people seem to dislike her quite a bit. Everywhere she goes someone's trying to blow her up or turn her in. Finn, a fellow desperate orphan, forms a quick kinship with her. And Han finds utility in the harmless group that inadvertantly delivered his ship to him. Parrot better bruh.
>>64539923 >struggling to survive When exactly is she struggling? Maybe right at the beginning when the rations guy seems to undervalue what she brings him but it doesn't seem like she's starving or anything. Later on she literally breezes through every obstacle she's faced with and that makes her realisation that she has to let go of Jakku unfulfilling, because she never struggles and everyone likes her
>>64539923 >That doesn't mean she just breezed through things to any extent involving less stress then Bilbo or Neo or any other adventure protagonist. She did though. Bilbo at least, it's funny how you're trying to justify her by comparing her to a fucking christ figure in Neo.
No we wouldn't. Because she's new. Nice job trying to hide your absence of arguments with attacks on our motivations.
>because they all generally are Nope, succeeding at things eventually still isn't the same as instantly succeeding at everything.
>>64539765 >Those two issues are intertwined since a big part of her being a Mary Sue is her ability to start excelling at any given ability in a matter of seconds. Hence her development feels unsatisfying. Alright, I can see all that.
>becomes an expert marksman and shoots a bunch of stormtroopers This is where you lost me. You got that she misses the first shot after trying to fire with the safety on (she tried to shoot first, get it? Get it?). Then she hits that stormtrooper and comes across two more. She does shoot one blast and hit one but she runs away from the second. The only other time she's firing a blaster is immediately after that when Kylo finds her and her 'expert' marksman skills didn't do shit there. There's no galaxy where 66% accuracy makes you an expert marksman. Two stormtroopers is hardly "a bunch."
>>64540056 It's not "parroting" when it's referencing how narrative storytelling works in adventure stories.
>Fuck outta here special snowflake Seems to be the crux of the matter. You think you're special because you dislike something popular. When you get through high school maybe you'll realize nobody gives a shit. TFA can be quite objectively qualified as better-than-average.
>>64540169 I don't understand what's so hard about responding to >so he's better at fighting than obiwan? with >yes, when obiwan is at the end of his life and literally refuses to fight so i assumed you were being intentionally obtuse.
>>64540200 Yeah I guess she had to take one shot with her blaster and 2 attempts at mind control before eventually succeeding. I guess that makes up for the instant godlike piloting and winning her first swordfight untrained
>>64540204 No look faggot you said she became "an expert marksman and shoots a bunch of stormtroopers," neither of those is true.
Why are you acting like guns are hard to use? Why are you acting like being a trained soldier makes you bullet proof when running across an opening?
>I managed to out swordfight a guy with 10+ years more swordfighting ability And we're back to RotJ, did Luke just learn a bunch of technical saber ability in 6 months that Vader hadn't in 20+ years? Lightsaber duels are decided by who is better at the force during the fight. All this prequel shit is what makes saber fighting it's own skill separate from force use and that goes against the OT and RotJ specifically.
>reinvent There you go exaggerating again. Either stand by an argument you think is good enough without embellishing, or outright lying, or shut up.
>>64540315 >Yeah I guess she had to take one shot with her blaster and 2 attempts at mind control before eventually succeeding. I guess that makes up for the instant godlike piloting and winning her first swordfight untrained
>>64540452 My dad owned guns when I was a teen, a lever action rifle and a handgun. If you have a loaded gun it is just point and shoot. It's not like these laser guns have anywhere near the same kind of weight or recoil to them that even a little .22 sport pistol would. She knew enough to keep her arm straight and there's little more to it than that, especially in a fantasy movie.
>>64540413 >Why are you acting like guns are hard to use? Why are you acting like shooting guys with a fucking pistol you've never used at arm's length is easy? Have you ever touched a gun?
Being a trained soldier would hopefully mean you can shoot someone before they shoot you.
Really I don't care about the gun thing. It's something that THE FORCE can justifiably help you with. But it's just another example of instant success like everything else she tries.
Ok faggot, who taught her how to mind control if she did not independently reinvent it?
The guy who threw her 30 feet through the air effortlessly and can hold blaster bolts is better at the force than she is. That doesn't go against the OT at all. Maybe if you're good enough with the force you don't need to lightsaber people but that doesn't mean lightsaber fights are some kind of retarded dice roll where the guy with higher 'force points' wins.
>>64540562 Not to mention its not like Luke or literally any other adventure protagonist ever has problems shooting goddamn guns. It's been a recurring joke since ANH that Storm Troopers cant hit shit and the heroes are deadshots.
>>64540453 The incredibly slow fight where they're both throwing speeches at each other? So your theory is that obiwan was trying to kill vader but then he just completely changed his mind after they were done making speeches. Brilliant.
>>64540656 There's a lot of stupid and we're on page 9 so I need to hurry.
>Why are you acting like shooting guys with a fucking pistol you've never used at arm's length is easy? Yes, stop bringing up that she's never used this gun before that doesn't matter. It's a recoiless, lightweight laser beam you don't even have to reload. I grew up with guns, they aren't hard, especially if you took away the recoil. Then aiming is just literally point and shoot.
>Being a trained soldier would hopefully mean you can shoot someone before they shoot you. Tell that to the soldiers in the Middle East for the past 20 years or the soldiers from Vietnam. That's the whole thing about guns, they really level the playing field.
>Really I don't care about the gun thing. >But it's just another example of instant success like everything else she tries. You can't say you don't care about it but still bring it up as an example you fuck.
>>64538815 >harry potter is a mary sue there's tons of times where harry comes off as a rude asshole, socially awkward, etc. He's also only exceptionally good at defense against the dark arts. Everything else he's practically mediocre at.
>>64540946 Star wars guns clearly have recoil. They throw people around. Chalk it up to inconsistent effects. Not that point them perfectly at people *the first fucking time you use them* without recoil would be as easy as you think.
I didn't you fucktard. I just jumped in to point out how stupid your "hurr only 2 people where killed by her first 3 shots ever that doesn't count as instant success" is.
>>64541025 Rey isn't shooting a bowcaster you fuck.
Enough with you stressing the "first time." Anyone can point a gun, it's not this masterful skill you need to murder someone with a pistol. It's a gun, you point it, you shoot it. You just add in this invisible step where it's really hard to aim I guess. I've shot guns, I'm not making this up I know how pistols work.
>instant success Why can't people stick to the same wording? "Expert marksman" and "first few attempts working out positively so it's technically a success though 'instant' is being used in a really cocked up way because you have to argue through exaggeration instead of actual points" are different things anon.
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