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>Kylo Ren was WEAKENED BY CHEWBACCA'S...
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>Kylo Ren was WEAKENED BY CHEWBACCA'S BOLT CASTER OKAY! THAT MEANS REY ISN'T MARY SUE!

So you're saying your defense of Rey not being a Mary Sue is that the VILLAIN was WEAK.

Nice one, guys.
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>>64520172
people talk like it's a mistake that ren is a big doofus
he's a loser pretending to be a badass
>>
>>64520172
Yes? Are you under the impression that villains have to be unstoppable badasses that never lose?
>>
>>64520172
Ren was weakened, yes, but he was never very great to begin with. The jedi order and the sith were eliminated, Luke being the last guy remaining. Inexperienced and barely half trained, any of his pupils would be shit. It's not farfetched to say that Ren would be as skilled a fighter as any normal person with a little combat training.

And he was weakened by Chewbacca's boltcaster.
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>Haha, Kylo Ren is such a weak villain! Lost to a stormtrooper and a scavenger!

Why are people so stupid? Did they really miss the part where Chewie shot him with his powerful bowcaster? Or that he didn't even try to kill Rey and just toyed with Finn like Vader toyed with Luke in TESB?
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>>64520232>>64518787

You guys posted the same unoriginal daily thread at pretty much the same time

Shitposters brains are linkes or something
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>>64520254
You dont understand how stories operate then
>>
>bowcaster can make people fly like ragdolls
>no corresponding recoil when han solo uses it

where'd the momentum disappear to?
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>>64520400
>laser can make people fly like ragdolls
>anon is more concerned with this not having an equal and opposite reaction
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>>64520400
Isn't it a railgun?
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>>64520333
this. idc if you want to call rey a mary sue. but to say ren should have REKT HER SHIT LAZY WRITING HURR shows that you didn't even pay attention to the movie
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>>64520348

Wow that fight looks ridiculous. Kylo is acting as if the lighsaber is a Zweihander. The way he spins it used to put pressure on the opponent using the blade of the sword. Lightsabers have no weight, so it is utterly pointless...
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>>64520172
And yet he proceeded to out flank the protagonists that were 30 yards away, and on top of that was able to force push Rey 20 feet into the air smacking her into a tree.

> practically incapacitated
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>>64520172
What about Finn? He got a few good hits on Ren.
>>
When was the last time you saw people doing this much mental gymnastic to defend a horrendously written character like Rey?

I literally can not recall anything like that
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>>64520593
The only reason Kylo lost is because he didn't wan to kill Rey. He could have pushed her off that cliff easily but he didn't.
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>>64520232
Stopped a laser bolt in mid-air, can freeze people in their tracks, and demonstrated telekinetic powers far beyond any Sith/Jedi.

Some poser he his.
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>>64520637
It was obvious Ren was toying with him, especially by how he turns serious and finishes the duel in seconds after Finn gets a lucky hit
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>>64520637
He got 1 lucky shot and then Ren instantly disarmed him
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>>64520656
Then why nearly kill her at the very beginning?
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>>64520725
He has no prior dueling experience. The duel was a farce.
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>>64520768
I think he thought he knocked her unconscious. he was surprised when she force snatched the lightsaber. so he decided to test her skills or whatever while doing force PUA on her but it didn't work because he only attended one seminar.
>>
>>64520811
Stormtroopers prolly have meele training
for example the traitor guy
>>
So wait, it turned out the new saga isn't going to be "black empowerment" but instead "gurl powah!"?
>>
>>64520172
>THAT MEANS REY ISN'T MARY SUE!

Rey isn't a mary sue anyway. You don't have to be overpowered to beat a flawed villain. Being beaten by rey says more about kylo's character than it does hers.
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>>64520869
He's a janitor who had never seen combat before.
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>>64520685
>demonstrated telekinetic powers far beyond any Sith/Jedi.

Watch the star wars movies before posting here, please.
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>>64520942
except for all the times in the movie where he engaged in combat.
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>>64520942
He still got the training
>>
Everything I read about this movie just makes me want to watch it less and less. I know nobody cares about my special snowflake tastes but it just seems like pure shit.
>>
I just got back from my second viewing, the first was at the midnight release.

Not only is the bowcaster wound really bad, hes still emotionally fucked from killing his father. If you actually WATCHED the film, Kylo absolutely batters Rey for the majority of the fight even though he is badly injured. It's only near the end of the fight Rey starts fighting back. Plus Finn got a lucky hit in during his fight with him too.

He was also trying to NOT kill her but either incapacitate her to take her to Snoke or convince her to stop, whereas Rey was outright trying to kill him.

At the end of the day, just imagine how deadly Kylo Ren will be in episode VIII with no injuries and in a more stable condition
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>>64520400

because of the force, stupid
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>>64520942
yet, he was chosen to escort kylo ren.
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>>64520471
>lasers
SW weapons are not lasers
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>>64520995

which was never. he explains that was the first time he had to kill someone as a stormtrooper, and he refused.
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>>64521049
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>>64520172
As it stands, she is a bit of a Mary Sue. Hopefully she won't be in the context of the entire trilogy.
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>>64520942
No, he's a stormtrooper who GUARDED the sanitation department.
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>>64520922
>Rey isn't a mary sue anyway.

Name one flaw Rey has
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>>64520172
>Never piloted the falcon or a similar ship
>The moment she does she defeats two sf TIEs by doing return of the jedi inside of death star run
>Never used the force, not even know what it's
>The moment hears the name she mind fucks Kylo, half the base and escapes
>Never hold a gun
>The moment she removes the safety she 360ยบ noscope headshots 6 troopers and moonwalks away

Yeah, she's only perfect, literally perfect, you can't find a flaw.

Also
>Leia never shaw her, heard about her, nothing
>The moment Leia sees her she goes to hug her ignoring poor Chewie who only lost his best friend in the world

Like a fucking fanfic's main character
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>>64520172
That argument has nothing to do with Rey's strength but the weakness of Kylo against both of them that people whined about.
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>>64521153
did they cut his lightsaber fight with the stormtrooper from your camrip?
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>>64521228
Sorry, JJ. My bad.
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>>64521365

the original comment was that he 'had never seen combat before' as in, never seen combat
>before
the events in the film. the point stands that, even though he is a stormtrooper, he only has basic training and no prior combat experience.
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>>64521290
A woman, she is.
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>>64521053
The fuck are you talking about?
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>>64521049
The novel elaborates how he expected to feel stronger after he kills his father but actually feels weaker and confused after he does it.

So yeah, he has a lot of stuff to deal with at the end.
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>>64520942
Okay, I haven't seen the movie but just because he is black doesn't mean he was a janitor you racist fuck
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>>64521476
Maybe they should hand that novel out during screenings and give everyone a book light so they can follow along.
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>>64521465

basic training would include combat training, and he saw combat in the beginning with ren and then later engaged in combat with the stormtrooper.
>>
>the novel this, the novel that
This is no excuse, if the movie can't fucking properly show what it's trying to show it's the director's fault.
>>
>>64520579
How else are they supposed to choreograph fights? Lightsabers don't actually exist.
>>
>>64521547
>I can't read characters emotions on my shitty camrip baw
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>>64521476

>something that explains how the character feels at a certain moment is never shown or told
>b-but the novel says this! :^)

This is fucking retarded

Everything about the movie that makes no sense still makes no sense because there's no explanation for it within the fucking film. If you need outside sources to explain things about the story then it means the script is shit
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>>64521624

yea, those few minutes seen in the film and nothing besides that. that means that he him being even remotely competent at sword fighting is rediculous
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>>64521752
I think it's pretty obvious that Kylo Ren never truly wanted to kill Han.
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>>64521751
>implying there was anything to read
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>>64521780
what defines the line between competent and getting a lucky strike?
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>>64521547
>half the character's story in the movie is about struggling with the idea of killing his father
>UGH, THEY ONLY TOLD US ABOUT THIS IN THE BOOK? HOW DARE THEY
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>>64521904
>faceblindess
>stage three autism
>>
>repeated motif of Chewies bow completely blowing away people
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>>64521938

being able to parry several attacks, both from powerful sith and shock-baton wielding stormtrooper
>>
>Jacen and Jayna
>Rey and Ren
>Darth Caedus
>Caedus
>Kylo
They're going to be sibilings
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>>64520254
too bad Ridley has 0% breasts. Literally flat chested
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>>64520172
What about all the other stuff she does perfectly? What about how Kylo kicked Finns ass despite suffering from the bowcaster wound and mentally wasnt all there?
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>>64522014
He was also a stormtrooper though.
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>>64522014
he was a shit sith tho. how many times do you reckon finn would need to hit a dummy with a kendo stick in order to "realistically" parry ren for as long as he did? would you say over ten million?
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>>64522061

was he also a sith, though?
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>>64522139
No, neither a Jedi, and that's why he lost.
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>>64522139
would it be that hard to believe kylo was just fucking with him? He could literally just freeze him in place and chop of his head if he wanted to.

Odds are he just wanted to play sith vs jedi for a little bit and have some fun.
>>
Bigger bitch: Kylo Ren or Anakin?
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>>64522211

right, the deathstar V.3 is blowing up and Rey is right there, and you seriously think kylo ren isn't giving it his all to deal with finn right then and there?
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>>64521049
>hes still emotionally fucked from killing his father. If you actually WATCHED the film

That headcannon.

Movies are supposed to be show don't tell. Call it what it is; bad writing.
>>
as for ren winning the fight...

has it ever occured to you fucks that she doesn't have to be trained at fucking all to fight with a lightsaber? She was going off pure instinct and trusting the force to guide her hands. That entire point of her closing her eyes and getting in touch with the force bit.

I swear to go this is the dumbest board.
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>>64522295
he doesn't know the planet is blowing up though now does he?

Hes thinkin "yay I get to actually use my lightsaber I haven't done this in years"
>>
>Han Solo and Kylo Ren talking on the bridge
>Blue light shines on Han and red light shines on Kylo
It's like Pottery it times
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>>64522234
Anakin, he had one extra movie to bitch, a lot, also he was the main character, so lots of screen time invested in bitching.
>>
>>64522322
watch the prequels if you want every characters feelings and thoughts literally spelled out to you
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>>64522330
>Doing shit not even the chosen one could
>Doing shit not even the son of the chosen one could
Lets add more sueism into this Marey Sue madness
>>
>>64522133
>>
Rey isn't a Mary Sue she was just horribly acted all the scene where she is meant to be showing how vulnerable she is are ruined by Daisey.
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>>64522322
Look at his face right after he does it. Look at how he pounds away at his wound to clear his head. It could not be more blatant a showing.
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>>64522456
>doing shit luke could do by turning off his targeting computer
>doing shit anakin did with pod racers

Are you saying the force wasn't, and couldn't possibly be aiding Rey?
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>>64522497

fuck you, he pounds the wound to feel pain and hatred, which is like gasoline for the dark side
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>>64520579
they have momentum though
>>
KYLO REN TURNS TO SEE LUKE'S LIGHTSABER LAND IN THE HAND OF REY, WHO STANDS, FACING HIM, HAVING REACHED FOR IT HERSELF, BUT UTTERLY STUNNED THAT IT LANDED IN HER HAND! SHE IS SHOCKED -- AND SO IS KYLO REN!
Holding it with both hands, SHE IGNITES LUKE'S LIGHTSABER FOR THE FIRST TIME, HER EYES BLAZING.
Kylo Ren IGNITES HIS SABER.
It's REY who charges now -- Kylo Ren immediately on the defensive. They BATTLE POWERFULLY -- He is clearly rocked by her raw, innate skill.
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>>64520172
Or maybe you're judging her character based on incomplete evidence? I guarantee you she was already trained by Luke
>>
Why didn't Kylo Ren just force choke her like he did when she was in the forest and avoid losing to her in the first place?
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>>64522590
Headcanon.
>>
Rey and Kylo kiss/dp/facial scene when ?
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>>64522632

I cried when she pulled the lightsaber over, playing lukes music just made me lose it. Again at the end, when she hands him the lightsaber.

In the next movie Luke better have a role as big as Han did in this film
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>>64522682
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGGhq9i_mUyxkMS3CwWBCuJ0xuXZGsWpc
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>>64522538
>Luke
>Turning off his targeting computer
Lets add 1
>Nothing else in the entire movie
Total: 1

>Anakin
>Podracing
>Piloting (though half that was the autopilot)
>Destroying Federation ship
Total: 3

Rey
>Piloting
>Headshooting troopers
>Mindcontrolling
>Mindraping
>Telekinesis
>Lightsaber duel
Total: 7

My Marey Sue maths still check
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>>64522538
Not him but I hated how everyone dicksucked Rey as being oh so OP. She and Ren should be equal in power, even if she is a Skywalker.
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>>64522676

my nigga, have you not listened to a thing that yoda, sensei of senseis has been talking about for 6 fucking movies
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>>64520172
Rey just unbalanced him at the end, plus she had previous fighting experience.

Kylo was weakened from the shot, had his arm cut by Finn, and was emotionally unstable at the time.

You just can't deal with the main character being a girl.
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>>64522713
Faggot.

Seriously get a fucking grip you weakling. Luke is just going to die so Rey can get all the glory of rebuilding the Jedi for herself.
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>>64522739
>nothing else in the entire movie
howbout blocking laser blasts blindfolded and mowing down storm troopers left and right? wont even get into anakin because fuck that kid I don't want to think about him.
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>>64520172
injured or not there's no fucking way some untrained whore is going to beat a trained Sith, especially when he was originally trained by supposedly the most powerful jedi ever

even more unbelievable is that some random non force sensitive nigger would hold his own for so long against a trained Sith
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>>64522792
>can't deal with the main character being a girl.
I love this strawman. Did people give the prequels a pass because it was all white guys? No. Yet it's fags such as yourself who are giving Rey a pass because she's a girl.
>>
>>64522796
>rebuilding the Jedi for herself

Yeah, so they can continue the cycle and shit out STAR WARS every 2 years or so for all eternity.
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>>64522739
you're kinda fucking retarded aren't ya?
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>>64520579
They're bringing back lightsabers as things with weight because they wanted legit fight scenes instead of the spinny bullshit of the prequels. They did the same in the OT, though this time the fights are less straight ripped from Kurosawa.
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>>64522823
Luke can't shoot for shit that's why Leia takes the gun off him twice.
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>>64522739
Rey
>Piloting
She's already an adult. Can't you drive a fucking car? Spaceships in SW are like cars.
>Headshooting troopers
Practiced with blasters found while scavaging
>Mindcontrolling
The Force Awakens
>Mindraping
The Force Awakens
>Telekinesis
The Force Awakens
>Lightsaber duel
She is skilled with the staff.
>>
>>64522796
Fucking liberal garbage
>>
>>64522833
Luke is a Gary Stu. Han is a Gary Stu. Anakin is a Gary Stu. Padme is a Mary Sue by your logic.

The word has lost it's meaning.
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>>64522823
When did Luke mowed stormtroopers in EV?

Also he got hit as much as the blocked lasers, I was just enumerating the stuf Rey, Luke and Anakin did flawlesly, no the stuff in which they failed, because Rey didn't fail at anything in this movie.
>>
To paraphrase a post I read a couple of weeks ago somewhere on /tv/ - whether or not Rey is a Mary Sue really doesn't matter, and all the arguing as to how or why Rey could be an expert at this or that is also pointless.

The fact is, she's a BORING, feminist-pandering character, and the movie is worse off for it.
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>>64522942
having a character that doesn't fail at something they do doesn't make them bad.
>>
>>64520579
autism
>>
>>64520172
>kylo kicks her ass
>she's pinned next to a cliff
>she closes her eyes and wishes upon the force
>kylo gets his ass kicked
>"IT WAS CHEWIE'S SHOT MKAY! SHE'S NOT A MARY SUE SHITLORDS!"

M A R Y R E Y
S
U
E
>>
Rey a girl

cannot relate, surry

luke was yung white mail

he was good writting

enjoyed luke

rey not even big boobs
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>>64522914
>She's already an adult. Can't you drive a fucking car? Spaceships in SW are like cars.
She never piloted the falcon, also no, I can't fast and furious the shit out of a car, she in fact does with a ship in the first time she grabs the falcon.
>Practiced with blasters found while scavaging
Never showed, never telled, nice directing there
>The force awakens combo x3
This doesn't help you with your "not a mary sue" point
>She is skilled with the staff.
She used a lightsaber though, not even similar
>>
>>64521228
Which is why he called himself a 'janitor'.

You know, like how the army is 60% quartermasters and drill sergeants, because they're stationed at munitions depots and training facilities?
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>>64521315
The force has literally awakened. She is literally becoming a magic space wizard. It's what the fucking movie is about. is /tv/ pretending to be this autistic or is it real?
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>>64522934
I didn't even call Rey a Mary Sue faggot, and she's not. She's not JJ's self-insert. What she is, is the typically boring "strong womyn"
>Better than all the dudes at everything
>Never struggles because everything comes easy for her
>Always makes the right decisions because she's a good role model against the Patriarchy
>Typically previous male MC's are mocked and downplsyed so she can be the superior badass
>>
>>64522866
>>64520579

In Jedi Outcast, you had the choice of using your lightsaber with a light, medium or heavy style when fighting

I always presumed that the way you shift your weight and the pressure you produce in the metal grip of the saber impacts the power generated in the blade
>>
>>64520579
>Zweihander
Go back to the 40s, you fucking nazi
>>
>>64521983
Not that guy, but if it wasn't for the Lucas-quality monologues I wouldn't be able to tell. Ren's actor was kinda shit.
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>>64523044
Not Mary Sue, not sure if "strong womyn", but sure as fuck she's a badly writing fanfic main character, fuck, she's a fucking shonen character, form now on I'm going to call her Naruto, no wait, Sasuke fits better because asspulls without explanation.
>>
>>64520323
>>64520348

Kylo Ren's character is a failure on several planes.

It is not just that he's a meme villain. It is that it lacks logic and coherence as a character.

In the beginning of the film he is actually presented as badass. He freezes blaster shots in the air. He has presence on the battlefield. Then 10 seconds later Poe makes jokes on his face.

In ANH Leia faces Vader but she never makes fun out of him and you can see she actually fears him. Poe on the other hand is all like 'lol, u a sith? who cares'.

If Poe doesn't care, why should we? This kills the villain. It transforms him in some short of Jar Jar to be made fun of instead of a character you should respect or be interested about.

Then you get told this guy killed all of his classmates in the jedi temple. This looks like something very serious, not funny. Yet then again they make fun out of him with his tantrums against machines and chairs.

So what is your purpose JJ? Am I supposed to hate this guy because he killed his classmates and Han? Am I supposed to fear him because he's powerful? Am I supposed to laugh at him because he's a loser? This character is just a fucking mess.

And an uncoherent one, because he either is powerful enough to kill all of Luke's students and freeze stuff in the air, or weak enough to not just kill a random stormtrooper and an untrained in the force scavenger (this is both a failure on Rey's character and Ren's character at the same time) in a matter of seconds, on JJ's absurd plot convenience.

>he got shot by chewie's gun

Yeah, whatever. It's still stupid.
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>>64523149
oh nooo the movie isn't completely 100% just like the original trilogy. Boo, hiss, durrrrr
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>>64522234
Kylo Ren.
Anakin was being played by both sides, and had some development.
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>>64523149
in case this isn't pasta, welcome to writing by focus group
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>>64520172
Kylo Ren is a untrained shitter, unlike the Jedi Obi-wan and Anakin were.
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>>64522456
>yfw Rey grew up fighting to stay alive
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>>64522739
desu it seems every next movie the new Jedi gets stronger than the last iteration

Luke clearly ends up being more powerful than Vader in the end, so seems reasonable to assume Luke's daughter will be even stronger still
>>
>>64523236

>people complaining about TFA being a rehash
>Jew Jew fans: but that's what we wanted the OT again
>people complaining about stupid characters and presenting OT ones as an example (not to be exactly copied, but taken as reference)
>Jew Jew fans: hurr durr u want it to be 100% like the OT

retard
>>
>>64521476
What novel is that? Serious question, im pretty new to the sw universe, did watch the movies but I would like to read the books.
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>>64523149
you realize he didn't kill all of the jedi students on his own right? In the flashback you see a group of dark clothed people.

As for the poe making fun of him thing, you're fucking retarded. Poe makes fun of them and then minutes later is tortured and forced (honkhonk) to give up the information.

Han solo would have acted exactly the same way as poe. Just a hot shot pilot givin no fucks.

As for kylo character... it's almost like he is torn between what is right and wrong. Between the light and dark. Whether he is a complete badass or someone that still has a lot to learn.
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>>64522866
The prequel acrobatic fighting scenes are actually quite awesome in my opinion. Regardless I will enjoy the lightsaber duels in the upcoming movies.
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>>64523236

actually the film is way too much like the original trilogy

>crucial information put on droid on desert planet
>inhabitant of said desert planet takes drone to important people
>desert planet inhabitant turns out to be important person for light side of force
>desert planet inhabitant force messiah goes to blow up star destroying laser globe owned by black-clad mask wielding sith who may be a relative

it's just so, so terribly unoriginal
>>
>>64523149
You're very obviously supposed to pity him.
>>
>>64523044
The only badass in the movie is Poe Dameron
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>>64523447
And Greg Grunberg's beard. He's a fat dump, but his beard looked good.
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>>64523149
>In the beginning of the film he is actually presented as badass. He freezes blaster shots in the air.
When he has motivation and thought behind it, he is a fucking powerful Force user. The series from the OT onward talks incessantly about how focus matters in using the Force.

It also builds up his character as a poser.

>Then 10 seconds later Poe makes jokes on his face.
It is the same thing as nervous laughter. Many people respond with sarcasm or quips when cornered or afraid. This isn't new to fiction or real life.

He does fear him, that is why Poe chooses to leave immediately.

So in the face of danger every person responds the same? No. Some go completely unemotional and silent. Some jabber. Some make amusing remarks. Some piss themselves.
>In ANH Leia faces Vader but she never makes fun out of him
Leia isn't the antagonizing type except when flirting with Han.

Meanwhile Vader's own subordiates are shown in a scene minutes later poking fun at him. People aren't all terrified of him. Vader's purpose is different than Kylo's too.

>If Poe doesn't care, why should we?
Diffferent characters respond differently. His foes make fun of Kylo while his subordinates cower in fear or walk down the other hallway. Vader is the opposite in ANH. His subordinates don't take him as seriously as his foes. Probably because they had more anti-Jedi propoganda instilled than the Rebellion.

>Told he murdered his classmates
Obviously Luke will clarify what exactly happened, especially since in the flashback we saw none of the fully grown students had lightsabers or were dressed like Jedi.

Your problem is that you don't understand the difference between villain and antagonist.
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>>64520172
>mfw all the Sith faggots in the EU are literal Mary Sues
Glad Disney wiped this garbage clean.
>>
>>64523326
Anakin was more stronger than Luke though, so your logic has a flaw.
>>
>>64523473
Agreed
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>>64523509
Did it seem weird to you that he was, like, two heads taller than everyone else there?
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>>64522866
The Maul Fight in Episode l wasn't that cartoony.
>>
Poe was a Gary Stu
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>>64523482
The Sith in KOTOR2 (excepting Revan) are all Kylo Ren level losers.
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>>64523149

>They make fun out his tantrums

implying it didnt make him seem like someone capable of killing people during one
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>>64520172

>the villain was weak

Yes he was. He thought he was hot shit while in actuality he was a glorified vader fanboy with some training in the force.
>>
>>64523531
The resistance is apparently full of manlets

The first order made their first order of business to gather all the member of the tall gene pool to grow stormtroopers from. Greg must've slipped through the net
>>
>>64523149
>Perfectly valid reason he would be fucked up in a fight
>Yeah, whatever, that doesn't matter because I said so
>>
>>64523641
Maybe he was ex FO like Finn.
>>
>>64523361
Do you think maybe it could be different people saying those two different things?
>>
The resistance is a Mary Sue
>>
Christ, Kylo was weak. He was not only physically wounded but his training was not yet finished AND he wasn't fully 100% committed to the dark side, diminishing his powers severely.

Why is this so hard to understand?
>>
>>64523550
When it comes to piloting, yes. But he was good at only one thing so that's more acceptable than being an expert scavenger, pilot, engineer, sharpshooter, force user and melee combatant, some of those with no prior training
>>
>>64523738

>Shit on the prequels for too much telling and not showing
>Shit on TFA for too much showing and not telling

You cannot please the autists on this board
>>
>>64522322
Not headcanon, it's actual canon. From the official movie novel.

https://twitter.com/DelReyStarWars/status/461579307341840384

Novels are only non-canon in the parts where they directly contradict the movie, and then only those parts are non-canon. You can say it's poorly explained, but it's canon.
>>
>>64520990
No jedi froze a laser bolt, or did he? Even yoda struggled with pillars n shit mid cobat
>>
>>64523738
>He was not only physically wounded
Rey was hurled at a tree and fell down from like 25 feet, she was hurt too.

>his training was not yet finished
Rey's training did not even begin

>he wasn't fully 100% committed to the dark side
and she wasn't committed to anything, she literally found out that the force was real a few hours before the duel
>>
>>64523856
In fact that novel is almost required reading because it clears up other stuff as well.
>>
Did Leia really hug Rey first and not Chewie? I missed this detail and now I'm actually kind of pissed off. Not worth seeing the movie again just to confirm that though.
>>
That one robot in the background is a Mary Sue.
>>
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>>64522866
>light
>having weight
>>
>>64523852
It's ok to shit on a movie for too much showing if what it's showing is shit. and what TFA is showing is a big smelly pile of horseshit
>>
>>64523806
He was a good soldier. He only got caught because Kylo was there. Just like Rey.
>>
>>64523936

Fucks like you would never accept another star wars movie outside of the original trilogy anyway, so why bother wasting your breath
>>
Hey guys im probably just being stupid but when kylo and rey fight why does kylo hit his wound? the one he got from chewie?
>>
>>64523991
Pump himself up. Focus. Sith masochism bullshit.
>>
>>64520579
>Lightsabers have no weight, so it is utterly pointless..
>Lightsabers have no weight
>no weight
>>
>>64523380

Dark clothed people with no lightsabers.

Kylo Ren and his swaggy crew straight outta /fa/, yep.

No wonder why Luke went on exile.

>Han Solo would have acted exactly the same way

Maybe. But a good director wouldn't have placed Solo making fun of the main villain he's just presenting to the audience on the film's first scene. At least that's my opinion.

>>64523475

>Meanwhile Vader's own subordiates are shown in a scene minutes later poking fun at him.

It's way different. What you see there is some stupid officer saying 'the Force ain't shit', not strictly making fun of Vader, after which Vader strangles him with the Force until Tarkin asks Vader to release the faggot.

The aim of the scene is not to make a joke. It's to present the power of the Force.

And I'm going to highlight the fact that the one who questions the Force is a faggot officer we're not supposed to respect, while the one who jokes at Kylo Ren in TFA is Poe, one of the Resistance's heros.

You know what I mean?

>His foes make fun of Kylo while his subordinates cower in fear or walk down the other hallway

But again, the purpose of the scene when the stormtroopers walk away, is no other than the audience to laugh. It's a gag. It doesn't build an aura of fear around Kylo Ren. It just makes him more of a Jar Jar like character. A meme.

>>64523587

No. It was Disney cartoon tier unoffensive. The atmosphere of those scenes was clearly humorous.
>>
>>64523991
From what I've heard it's a military thing where they do it to stay awake. Not sure how true it is but the actor was a Marine so he'd be familiar with it.
>>
>>64523982
I actually quite enjoyed the movie aside from a ripped off plot, Rey and slightly rushed pacing.

I accept it as a decent movie while also accepting that it has some tremendous flaws.
>>
>>64523991
>im probably just being stupid
You sure are.
>>
>>64523852

the prequels told too much AND they did it in true lucas fashion: with atrocious writing

if anything he's shitting on you for being a fucktard who can't read between the lines
>>
>>64524013
>The aim of the scene is not to make a joke. It's to present the power of the Force.
It also makes it clear that not everybody, even the people in the Imperium, is convinced the force exists and thinks the Jedi and Sith are just good warriors.
>>
>>64521715

They can invent a fighting style for lightsabers that doesn't exist for starters.

>>64522594

My spinning dick has a momentum too, but you don't see me spinning it.

>>64523002

>le reddit face

>>64523045

I thought crystals generated the power. But your comment makes sense. I just can't un-see the inefficiency at the webm though.

>>64523113

Only if your mom comes with me too.
>>
He was weakened by killing his father when he clearly didn't wanna do it
>>
>>64523149
What about the part where some general flat out shit talks the force in front of Vader and has to be choked for it? That's pretty disrespectful.
>>
>>64523666

It doesn't matter because if the director's purpose was to express the idea that he was weak because of the shot and that's why he failed to cuck Rey, the audience didn't get it at all.

If a vast majority of the audience doesn't get something, that's to blame on the director.

And the vast majority of the audience didn't understand how could Rey beat Ren. And why was Ren such a pussy.

At least that's what I've seen talking with people irl. Clearly here on /tv/ there are a lot of Kylo lovers. Don't really know why.
>>
>>64524063
i think it's complete utter dog shit. i will however forgive them for ripping off the plot if they actually do something original from now on but i think we all know the chances of that
>>
>>64524033

i thought it was to feel more pain so he could use that through the Dark side in his battle
>>
>>64524181
Could have been, the stay awake thing was just what I heard.
>>
>>64524117

True. I just didn't want to overexplain on the scene.

Clearly it serves as well to introduce the Force as some kind of a religion, mystic thing, not everybody believes in. Just like in the scene with Han and Ben in the Falcon.
>>
>>64524170
I really can't wait to see Kylo at full strength in a duel. I didn't have trouble understanding Kylo was injured bad in that scene. Wasn't until reading shit on the internet I realized.
>>
>not seeing Ren and Rey's fight as the fight that Anakin and Obi Wan should have had in Episode III, in which Anakin's overconfidence in the Dark Side makes him lose when Obi Wan allow the Force to flow through him.

Like, literally? You guys aren't seeing that this fight was more about how the Light can over come the Dark and that this is how Ren truly Falls to the Dark Side and becomes a Sith like his Grandfather before him and for Rey to understand the Force as Luke did before her: an ally?
>>
>>64524269
I realized people didn't get it I mean.
>>
>>64524181
>uses pain to power up
>still can't beat some 90lb untrained cunt
this is either the dumbest shit ever or Kylo is literally the shittiest Sith ever..... well he did almost get beat by a nigger too
>>
The fuck is Snoke?
>>
>>64524332
jarjar
>>
i might have accepted this character if they did this in the Old Republic like a 1000 years earlier
but this is just silly
>>
>>64524161

See >>64524013

It's a complete different situation.

The faggot general questions the Force and gets punished for it. It's not a comic scene (you may find it funny but it wasn't just a gag to make people laugh like Poe's or the tantrums).
>>
>>64524279
Obi-Wan was a Jedi master and on the council. Rey is as far as we know untrained. I get it but it breaks the lore. You don't just awaken the force. You don't just get good after a little bit.
>>
>>64524170
Part of the reason she beat him is because she started using The Dark Side. I don't feel like the movie conveyed it too well. When Luke used The Dark Side he was yelling and screaming and swinging his saber around like a madman then when he finally had Vader down he just kept hitting him over and over and over with gnashed teeth and pure rage.
>>
>>64524332
A S(n)troke victim
>>
>>64524170
>Audience is so braindead retarded they can't make the connection between the bowcaster being presented again and again as a ridiculously powerful weapon and a shitty sith losing a fight
>The director is to blame
You can be the greatest teacher on the planet but if the guy you're trying to teach that 1+1 = 2 has an IQ of 10, you are unlikely to have success.
>>
>>64524411
That's scenes also great because Luke realizes how dangerous it is and how he was becoming his father. He looks at his mechanical hand and then at Vaders smoldering robotics and he realized that he was losing it. Probably my favorite scene in the franchise.
>>
>>64524332
A giant, they come from Raxus Prime.
>>
>>64524451
Hi JJ
>>
>>64524319
He's not a Sith. The Sith are gone from the galaxy. That could have something to do with it. He's just a poser in every way. I can't wait to see his backstory because I am extremely curious what would make someone go this far into Edgeville when they clearly aren't cut out for it.
>>
>all those faggots babbling about Ren being weak
Yes, he wasn't a powerful Sith lord but the point is that even a weak Sith like Kylo with years of training in the Force and lightsaber combat should wipe the floor with someone who has never held a lightsaber before and found out about the force the day before the fight
>>
>>64522792

Holly shit why are there so many reddit niggers here.
>>
>>64520579
Lucas told hamill that orignally they were supposed to be very heavy. Hence why a force user needed to be the one wielding it to control it
>>
>>64524505
>A giant
I got the impression he was only having such a huge hologram to seem intimidating.
>>
>>64524485
Mine as well. That entire section with Luke on the Death Star is my favorite in the whole franchise. The best is when, like you said, he looks at his hand and sees what he's becoming. Then he renounces the Dark Side and just seeing the cool and confident Emperor's face suddenly twisted into anger, confusion, and most of all fear in one shot is what really does it for me.
>>
>>64520172
Its astounding you literal fucking aspies actually care about this

Get help, every single one of you, sincerely
>>
>>64520172
The New Chewbacca Defense.
>>
>>64524583
>disagrees with me
MUST BE REDDIT!
>>
>>64524532
he's just some fuck that wants to be like Vader, literally nothing else to it
>>
>>64522914

Why are people still defending rey? Are they really that thirsty for a female lead, that they'll take anything given? Bullshit written or not?

Wow. The Reddit invasion is underway
>>
>>64524451

The bowcaster didn't even make any sense, it's destructive power varied widely throughout the movie. It was practically a grenade launcher capable of ragdolling multiple people early on but Kylo barely even gets pushed back upon getting hit by it. And even afterwards he's strong enough to outrun both heroes and fight both of them back to back while still being able to fling people into trees with the force. Kylo was lame, he was some ungodly strong force user when the movie wanted to be and a whiney tantrum throwing loser when the heroes needed a victory. Weak villain in general. Makes me think Marvel's success is starting to bleed into other properties if this is the best we're getting out of Star Wars villains.
>>
Rey actually does have reasons and explanations how she is able to do so much of the stuff she is (outside of The Force which is the most glaring issue but I'm guessing they're going to Revan her). The problem with them is that they're all in the supplemental materials and not the movie itself so most people won't notice them because the writers couldn't devote even just one insignificant line to explain that Rey found a flight sim training program years ago and learned how to pilot from it.
>>
>>64524763
Bro, you can hold down the trigger on a bowcaster to make it stronger. Did you even battlefronts 2?
>>
>>64524824
She also knew about the Falcon because she would sneak on it at night and check out the systems and stuff. She was a good mechanic because she spent most her life taking apart ships. She good in a fight because she's had to fend for herself since she was 5. The last two are easy to figure out just watching the movie.
>>
>>64524451

It actually just feels like a plot hole.

In the prequels when a Jedi is shot (by clones, by Jango) he just dies.

In TFA a weapon that blows up stormtroopers like a grenade, hits Kylo Ren and just makes a wound on him.

Your mind goes "wow, ok JJ". You don't start thinking "hmmm he must have absorbed part of the hit with his superforce powers and now he is weakened or sth". You just try to take it and not be mad about it, like you've been doing with the rest of the plot holes in the movie.

Even then, you imagine a wounded Vader (or Maul, or Dooku, or whatever sith we've already seen) no matter how wounded he was, facing a traitor stormtrooper he would have just thrown him in the air with the force, electroshocked him, thrown the saber to him, strangled him, or whatever. Instead we got a Finn vs Kylo fight where Finn gets to hurt Kylo because JJ thought that would be cool.

It's just as much of a plot convenience as those monsters in Solo's ship instantly killing the bad guys, but giving Finn a ride around the ship just for Rey to save him.
>>
>>64524385
TFA is going more back to the concept that the Force is magic/spiritual and Jedi were just mysterious space monks instead of it being Space Cops with special Force cells.

Hell, Rey got about as much training in the Force as Luke did in the first movie by simply touching the Lightsaber and talking to the cantina lady (Luke had an old Wizard give him his dad's old saber and basically just told him that he could use the Force if he concentrated). Not to mention that we've got two more movies to explain why she's so Force sensitive.
>>
>>64524855

Yeah. I guess chewie after seeing how Kylo killed Han just didn't want to harm Kylo much, so he pushed the trigger just a little.
>>
>>64524913
Yeah those last two are things I never had problems with. A woman all alone living in that situation would have to learn how to defend herself and I figured she knew how to fix the Falcon because she'd done so much salvaging, but a lot of people seem to be unable to pick up on stuff like that. I'm withholding judgement on her Force abilities until they hopefully explain it before the trilogy ends.
>>
>>64520172
Yes, the villain is week. In his way to become stronger, since he shows potential (stopping the bolt and shit) and Snoke will have to "finish his training", but still weak.
That was the point.
>>
>>64524951

But the only thing Luke does using the force in ANH is shooting that torpedo in.

Then in Dagobah a movie later he can't do more than move little stones using the Force.

Rey literally got to be more powerful than Kylo Ren in a day.

'We have to stop her before she knows how to use her powers' feels way more of a X-Men thing than a Star Wars thing.
>>
>>64524951
THANK YOU. Like I said in an earlier post, force users are going back to being the magical space wizards they were originally envisioned as. Star Wars is nothing if not smack you in the face literal, hence: The Force AWAKENS.
>>
>>64525062
We're in the same boat. I still think showing some more vulnerability from her would have left her with some more room to go.
>>
>>64525088
Once again; we don't know her full story. She might have some Skywalker blood and automatically has top tier Force powers.
>>
>>64525280
Neither Anakin, nor Luke had top tier Force powers automatically.

And leaning this hard on the sequel to explain a core characteristic of the main hero is shit writing
>>
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>>64520333
>Ren was weakened, yes, but he was never very great to begin with.

He Force captured a blaster bolt and left it hovering there for 10mins without even thinking, but we're supposed to believe a guy trained by Luke Skywalker, is unskilled in the use of a Lightsaber?

While Dindu Nuffin and Rey have _ZERO_ Lightsaber training but they can stand their ground against (and even defeat) Kylo Ren?
>>
>>64525343
>a guy trained by Luke Skywalker
Kylo Ren is leading an army to find Luke Skywalker and kill him.
So much for that.

They probably met, got into a fight the first day and then Luke told him to fuck off.

You guys keep spouting MUH TRAINING as if you even know the extent of it.
>>
>>64521752
The movie actually quite literally shows him becoming weaker. You know, because he's defeated by a novice Force user. Did you need inner dialogue from Kylo saying "I'm much weaker now, just for you audience members that haven't caught on."
Just because you need everything spoonfed to you doesn't mean the rest of us do, and it doesn't make the film worse.
>>
>>64520172
Guys, don't you think it's suspicious how much they emphasize that that crossbow thing hits like a fucking truck? They do it like 3 times or so.

Ben was supposed to be pretty badly wounded in that fight, just holding in the pain to get through it.

Jesus fucking christ you sperglords. Disney is a massive corporation that pays lots of very smart people to overanalyze every frame of this shit to make sure it's consistent.
>>
>>64525330
>>64525343
In the Darth Plagueis novel Plagueis and palpatine spend months in deep meditation in an attempt to manipulate the force on a cosmic level which is likely what produces Anakin. Luke could have gone to that planet in an attempt to manipulate the force for the light side which would explain Rey's sudden force proficiency.
>>
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>>64522866
something i want to say in defence of the prequels lightsaber duels is like. They're force users, acutely aware of their opponents movements and positions as well as their own. Im sure they have force assisted striking as well so that spinning shit in that gif isnt too hard to believe, both of them are trying to predict and counter eachothers moves in miliseconds
then again im not super invested in starwars lore so i could be wrong
>>
>>64522786
He's only been in 5 movies. Pleb confirmed.
>>
>>64525600
The blood dripping from him should have been a hint that he's injured as well.
My guess is that so many on /tv/ have only seen a shitty camrip instead of going to the movies.
>>
>>64525600
There were like 3 shots of showing him bleeding and his blood pooling on the ground.

Some people are just too stupid to live.
>>
Okay so how about this:

Men's value comes from their struggle. They try, fail then succeed. A boy mudt go through hsrdship to become a man.

Women, on the other hand, get everything handed to them. They never struggle, die or experience fault (it's never a womans fault lads, remember that)

With these two hyperbolic statements in mind, can /tv/ tell me why Rey was written as a Mary Sue?

Bonus points for observations on Kylo Ren and the future of the Star Wars franchise
>>
so they;re going to be siblings right? or cousins or someshit
>>
>>64520333
Wouldn't in theory Yoda, Obi Wan and Anakin still be around in their spirit form to council and help Luke in the ways of the Jedi?
>>
>>64521162

daily reminder its a middlefinger
>>
>>64525649
all you have is "could've". There is no way to defend this horrendously written character based on what we see in the movie. When a movie relies on outside sources to explain a core characteristic of the main hero then the movie has shit writing
>>
>>64520172

>I literally don't even know what a Mary Sue is: the thread
>>
>>64525756
She's obviously a Skywalker. Then Kylo's going to join the good guys, ala Vegeta, and they're totally going to pwn Snoke. I've even written the dialogue: Where there's Snoke... YOU'RE FIRED!
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>>64525448
>You guys keep spouting MUH TRAINING as if you even know the extent of it.

JJ Abrams, please

We all know what the story will be; Han & Leia have a kid, ""the Force is stronk in this one", Luke begins training him, Bad Guy lures him away with promises of "powah!", etc. and so on.
>>
>>64521512
He was a legit janitor for starkiller base
>>
The answer is both and that's okay
>>
>>64522444
Trips confirm
>>
>>64523023

He actually says "Sanitation"
>>
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>>64520574
This is total bullshit. No, it's not that the people saying Ren should have wrecked Rey didn't pay attention, they did, it's that the entire construction is just stupid.

Kylo Ren demonstrates the ability to predict and stop blaster bolts in the first few minutes of screen time. He demonstrates incredible force power off and on at the writer/director's convenience, until his final confrontation with Rey.

In order for Chewy's bowcaster to hit Kylo he had to suddenly lose his power(but wait, didn't he just take his final step to the darkside by killing his father? In every previous canon example doesn't this immediately strengthen darkside characters?) so that he doesn't anticipate the shot, and can not intercept it. This is immediately followed by Finn holding his own against a practiced(Even if Kylo Ren wasn't completely trained he had plenty of practice with his weapon, and presumably melee weapons in general under his training with Luke) opponent, and Rey's complete domination of Kylo Ren's will.

The fact that these things are handwaved by the writers in no way negates how shitty the entire construction is.
>>
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Why was Klyo knocking / banging on his breastplate / chest?

He does it 2-3 times, stepping away from the fight and banging on his chest before rejoining the fight.
>>
>>64526100
That's where he got hit. He was hitting those spots because he's an idiot.
>>
>>64526100
He's hurt from Chewie's blaster shot and feeds off the pain because that's what edgy dark siders do.
>>
>>64526100
It was kinda like LOOK DUMB GENERAL AUDIENCE, KYLO REN IS BADLY HURT. BADLY. NEEDS TO TAKE A BREAK AND KEEP THAT ADRENALINE PUMPING TO EVEN STAND.
>>
>>64526168
That and the blood wasn't enough of a tell apparently.
>>
>>64522866

>tfw fucking vidya cinematics had better fights than we have ever seen in the movies

Would it be so fucking hard ? Blur hit the perfect balance between spinning and impact desu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm4JEZudf0c
>>
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>>64525888
>mfw in the last movie he's going to have had limbs cut off, has robo hands. Basically becomes darth vader like he wanted and goes through the same turmoil as Darth in episode 6 except when killing Mr Bad Guy except Rey will die instead
>>64526100
idk like others have said, it could be to cause pain to help with his dark side powers, but when i was watching it I instantly thought "That nigga's got a robot body"
Also thats just like a thing to do when you hurt yourself and you're hopped up on adrenaline, atleast Ive done it and some other people i know have.
>>
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>>64526130

I thought he only got hit with a glancing shot to the leg?
>>
>>64526100
he was trying to imitate the chimp he was about to fight
>>
>>64526100
People will tell you many reasons.
>Numb the pain
>Increase the pain to fuel the Dark Side
And another reason is a more psychological one. If you deliberately cause pain to yourself from the wound you've sustained you're suffering injury from your own actions. In a way it's like convincing yourself that the pain is from you and not them, and that makes it easier to bear mentally.
>>
>>64526240
>mfw in the last movie he's going to have had limbs cut off, has robo hands. Basically becomes darth vader like he wanted and goes through the same turmoil as Darth in episode 6 except when killing Mr Bad Guy except Rey will die instead
He'll probably cut off his own hand.
>>
>>64524332
Plagueis

His gruesome face is leftover from Sheev's botched assassination
>>
>>64526100
Trying to prevent blood and body fluids getting into his lungs.
>>
>>64525655
I just don't know what else other than "jedi can block laser weapons that move at about the speed of a fast ball" was established that the force must absolutely help with in the OT.

Moving stuff, premonitions, blocking things, sword fights. It's nice to see them take down everyone's power levels just a bit
>>
>>64526085
>but wait, didn't he just take his final step to the darkside by killing his father?
It's clear that killing Han didn't have the intended effect. Kylo is confused and panicked. He loses his focus completely. His voice quivers and cracks whenever he speaks during the last battle.
>>
>>64526240
>when i was watching it I instantly thought "That nigga's got a robot body"

I thought he had an armored breastplate on, as you could clearly hear the knocking sound.
>>
>>64526212
god damn it you mother fucker now i have to play TOR again
>>
>>64525862
You are aware that this is the first film in a trilogy, yes?
>>
does anyone have the gif of the lightsaber vision
>>
>>64520579

Originally lightsabers were supposed to be held and swung as if they were very heavy. That's why in ESB it was a big deal when Vader one handed the fucker like it aint no thang.
>>
>>64526212
This is literally the gayest. Kingdom Hearts 3D [Dream Drop Distance] appears grounded next to this.
>>
>>64526494
>lightsabers were supposed to be held and swung as if they were very heavy
Oh, George.
>>
>>64526168
>>64526208
I loved that addition, and when I saw it (knowing Adam Driver from Girls) I immediately thought it was an addition he suggested.
>>
>>64520172

I don't understand why this whole argument even started to begin with.

She's not a mary sue.

Neither her, nor Kylo, are very well trained in the use of lightsabers. Kylo is more familiar, but he still wields his like a giant baseball bat.

Basically, it's a fight against someone who is a pretentious faggot who can't control his emotions and a lady who is in control of her emotions.

So, of course Ren gets the upper hand. She has the emotional advantage.

Her prowess with machines can be explained by her familiarity with the downed star ships on Jakku.

She isn't, however, a very interesting character. She doesn't really change over the course of the film and she never really does anything particularly interesting besides fight Kylo Ren.
>>
>>64522594

So what, even if they has? Even if it was heavy as fuck, you still dont any need momentum to inflict the maximum possible damage with it, so why make such wide swings ?
>>
>>64522322

>Movies are supposed to be show don't tell.
>Wants literally the opposite of that.

Are you face blind or something? Emotions are expressed through facial expressions. If you can't see faces, that might explain why you don't understand this.
>>
>>64526654
>She's not a mary sue.

Stopped reading there.
>>
>>64526654
Wow a smart person, on my /tv/?
>>
>>64526919
>>64526654
samefag
>>
>>64526290
It's treason then
>>
>>64520172
Fuck off Pawel, go cry more on Facebook
>>
>>64526212

Those 4 trailers are literally the GOAT of all SW related materials.
>>
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>it's a "people refuse to accept the obvious reasons why Kylo lost" episode
>it's on re-run
>>
>>64523149
But Leia did make fun of Vader.

"Governor Tarkin, I should have expected to find you holding Vader's leash."
>>
>>64526654
She wonders around like a child most of the movie. I think of her as a giant manchild, or womanchild, and I think it was by design. She doesn't really know how to act around people because she's been isolated for so long. She actually has a lot of emotional growth potential but that's very Reddit of me to say.
>>
>>64526654
I agree, especially the bit about rey not being a very interesting character
She needs a good tempt to the dark side to give her some sort of arc next time
>>
>>64526521
George's head canon was that when activated Lightsabers produced severe stereoscopic forces which was why only force trained combatants could weild them. Mark Hamil and the fight choreographer for the original trilogy wanted to use spins and one handed techniques for the final Luke/Vader confrontation but Lucas kaboshed it.
>>
>>64524922
The bowcaster is a charge up weapon, gets more powerful the longer u hold the trigger u nigger, do u even battlefront?
>>
>>64527083
>stereoscopic forces
what does that even meeaaaan
>>
>>64526973
Knights of the Fallen Empire is pretty interesting. i assume that's a new DLC or some shit? haven't touched TOR for like 2 years
>>
>>64527015

That's actually a really apt observation.

Good work, anon.
>>
>>64527015
A lot of it has to do with trying to make her seem innocent, everything for her holds a childlike sense of wonder and every reaction is exaggerated because she's never seen anything but her kitty litter hometown.
>>
>>64525088
Dunno senpai Luke does actually start lifting the X-Wing up a little.
>>
>>64527200
Knights of the Fallen Empire is absolute shit. Think Mass Effect 3 with lightsabers tier of story telling + shit gameplay.
>>
>>64525862
>We only find out Vader is Luke's dad in the second movie!
Hahaha wow the writing is fucking embarrassing, why can't the spoon feed us everything that's going to happen in the trilogy in the first movie?
>>
>>64527294
She's even shocked at her ability to wield the force. She says she doesn't know how she did it. There's something inherent about he force ability and it doesn't really piss me off about the character. It makes me curious to see where they are going with it.
>>
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>>64526212
Too bad The Old Republic fucking sucks though
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>>64527302
That kinda makes sense since Mass Effect was created after they lost their Star Wars contract.
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>>64527302
that sucks, literally the only reason i ever go back to that game is replaying the stories. i guess i really shouldn't expect much from BioShit these days
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>>64525873

>I have no counter arguments

Butthurt redditor
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>>64527544
they don't give a shit anymore
they added level syncing, and rehashed quests to inflate gametime so retards would ignore the complete lack of endgame
and for some reason they just can't stop raping their characters
>>
>>64520172
There are more problems in the movie besides Rey being memeterm and Kylo being garbage, my dear redditor.
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>>64526085
No, he did not take his final step. It's implied in the movie with his quivering voice, and trying to act like a super evil dude, he's trying to act cool about it. But he realized he killed his fucking dad and fucked up, because in the novel, it's confirmed as it says that he felt nothing from it, no surge of dark power or anything, and he realizes he fucked up super bad.
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>>64526085
How does someone miss the entire point of Kylo Ren so badly?
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzq9epS2b1A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdgmH9Vv2-I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAkcolVxDy0
>>
>>64526085
>this is total bullshit.
>killing your father grants you 50+ dark side force points
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>>64524013
>the atmosphere of those scenes was clearly humorous
did you forget after he did that he choked a motherfucker to death?
>>
Why it can not be both?
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>>64528100
People expected Vader 2.0 and are butthurt they didn't get it.
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>>64523149
>"meme villain" as argument
>Poe makes jokes, Leia never made jokes to Vader
she straight up calls him a dog on a leash

you fucking missed the character so hard, you're supposed to pity this motherfucker. you think there are only two types of characters at ALL EVER- GOOD WITHOUT SIN or IRREDEEMABLY EVIL
>>
Kylo killing Han scene was pretty damn good, the actor pulled off almost-but-not-quite crying Fucking perfectly
you could really see him teetering on the edge of his decision and even though i'd had it spoiled before even seeing the film i waited with bated breath during the scene.
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>>64527334
You can understand what's going on in ANH without the knowledge that Vader is Luke's father. A better comparison would be having Obi Wan mind trick stormtroopers and Vader choking Imperial officers without explaining what is the Force, which would be shit writing
>>
>B-B-BUT IT'S NEVER EVEN IMPLIED IN THE MOVIE THAT KYLO FELT BAD ABOUT KILLING HAN! HE SHAKES IT OFF! "MUH IT'S EXPLAINED IN THE BOOK SO IT'S BAD IN THE MOVIE!" ARGUMENT!
He literally has tears as he decides if he should kill his dad and says "I'm torn apart." His voice QUIVERS as he stabs him, and it's obvious he realized he fucked up.
>that sad as fuck "Thank you"
Motherfuckers are so blind that they weren't even paying attention and were trying to hate the movie. It's straight up shown to you in the film and you can't see past it because you don't read past one sentence when it comes to character depth. Then when someone brings up that the book elaborated on it even further idiots like to think it means the movie did nothing and try to use "THEY NEEDED A BOOK TO SHOW WHAT HAPPENED" even though they didn't.
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>>64521315
>The moment hears the name she mind fucks Kylo, half the base and escapes

A (protagonist worthy) gifted force user is able to get the upper hand of a storm trooper. A scavenger is able to maneuver around a metal base.

Gee, fuck me sideways tbqh la familia
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>>64520323
That's how building 'tension' and 'conflict' in 'movies' tends to work, yes.
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>>64520172
Nobody denies Rey's a Mary Sue. It's the fact that Mary Sues trigger /tv/ so much harder than Gary Stus, which the Star Wars universe is full of.
>>
>>64523666
>>64524451
>hurr durr he hits his side twice in pain
>so it should have been obvious just how weakened he is against this chick that just touched a lightsaber for the second time despite the fact that the choreography doesn't reflect her inexperience or his injury
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>>64525862
>based on what we see in the movie
Well yeah, no fucking shit. It's almost as if this story line will continue into future movies.
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>>64528921
Kylo is not a stormtrooper.

Nice headcanon.
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>>64522639
>luke secretly trained her
>that's why she thinks he's a legend
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>>64528989
you had 4 hours to see that post and think up a reasonable response to it, and this is the stupidity you have produced. Good job anon, you've made your parents proud.
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>>64529412
He's referring to the stormtrooper she mind tricks retard.
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>>64529906
>i-i'll just pretend it was the same guy sitting here the entire time just trying to find a comeback to that totally brilliant original post
yes retard, weak villains tend to reduce tension
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>>64530029
Kylo Ren is not the sole villain of the series OR the movie, he does not need to be a god of unparalleled destruction. Thinking the heroes might die is not the only way to make a film good. There is very good reason to believe that Kylo's role is not to just be a threatening villain, it's to be a character that grows and changes through the trilogy you absolute waste of brain matter.
>>
>>64528398
I like his character but the way they handled that final fight had downs.
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>>64530158
thinking the heroes don't even have a remote chance of losing because they can pull powerups out of their ass and completely overcome obstacles in unbelievable ways is an excellent way to make a film bad.

ok you pedantic dipshit, i will clarify that he does not *literally* need to be an 'unstoppable god of destruction who never loses' but he absolutely does need to be threatening. and losing to some chick that has touched a lightsaber once before because of a wound that wasn't significantly bleeding and that doesn't change the fight choreography makes him not threatening.
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>>64520942
Man, soldiers do all the work on the base, he wasn't a janitor he just ended up with janitor duty
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