>Kylo Ren was WEAKENED BY CHEWBACCA'S BOLT CASTER OKAY! THAT MEANS REY ISN'T MARY SUE!
So you're saying your defense of Rey not being a Mary Sue is that the VILLAIN was WEAK.
Nice one, guys.
Ren was weakened, yes, but he was never very great to begin with. The jedi order and the sith were eliminated, Luke being the last guy remaining. Inexperienced and barely half trained, any of his pupils would be shit. It's not farfetched to say that Ren would be as skilled a fighter as any normal person with a little combat training.
And he was weakened by Chewbacca's boltcaster.
>Haha, Kylo Ren is such a weak villain! Lost to a stormtrooper and a scavenger!
Why are people so stupid? Did they really miss the part where Chewie shot him with his powerful bowcaster? Or that he didn't even try to kill Rey and just toyed with Finn like Vader toyed with Luke in TESB?
Wow that fight looks ridiculous. Kylo is acting as if the lighsaber is a Zweihander. The way he spins it used to put pressure on the opponent using the blade of the sword. Lightsabers have no weight, so it is utterly pointless...
And yet he proceeded to out flank the protagonists that were 30 yards away, and on top of that was able to force push Rey 20 feet into the air smacking her into a tree.
> practically incapacitated
I think he thought he knocked her unconscious. he was surprised when she force snatched the lightsaber. so he decided to test her skills or whatever while doing force PUA on her but it didn't work because he only attended one seminar.
>THAT MEANS REY ISN'T MARY SUE!
Rey isn't a mary sue anyway. You don't have to be overpowered to beat a flawed villain. Being beaten by rey says more about kylo's character than it does hers.
I just got back from my second viewing, the first was at the midnight release.
Not only is the bowcaster wound really bad, hes still emotionally fucked from killing his father. If you actually WATCHED the film, Kylo absolutely batters Rey for the majority of the fight even though he is badly injured. It's only near the end of the fight Rey starts fighting back. Plus Finn got a lucky hit in during his fight with him too.
He was also trying to NOT kill her but either incapacitate her to take her to Snoke or convince her to stop, whereas Rey was outright trying to kill him.
At the end of the day, just imagine how deadly Kylo Ren will be in episode VIII with no injuries and in a more stable condition
>Never piloted the falcon or a similar ship
>The moment she does she defeats two sf TIEs by doing return of the jedi inside of death star run
>Never used the force, not even know what it's
>The moment hears the name she mind fucks Kylo, half the base and escapes
>Never hold a gun
>The moment she removes the safety she 360º noscope headshots 6 troopers and moonwalks away
Yeah, she's only perfect, literally perfect, you can't find a flaw.
>Leia never shaw her, heard about her, nothing
>The moment Leia sees her she goes to hug her ignoring poor Chewie who only lost his best friend in the world
Like a fucking fanfic's main character
the original comment was that he 'had never seen combat before' as in, never seen combat
the events in the film. the point stands that, even though he is a stormtrooper, he only has basic training and no prior combat experience.
The novel elaborates how he expected to feel stronger after he kills his father but actually feels weaker and confused after he does it.
So yeah, he has a lot of stuff to deal with at the end.
>something that explains how the character feels at a certain moment is never shown or told
>b-but the novel says this! :^)
This is fucking retarded
Everything about the movie that makes no sense still makes no sense because there's no explanation for it within the fucking film. If you need outside sources to explain things about the story then it means the script is shit
he was a shit sith tho. how many times do you reckon finn would need to hit a dummy with a kendo stick in order to "realistically" parry ren for as long as he did? would you say over ten million?
would it be that hard to believe kylo was just fucking with him? He could literally just freeze him in place and chop of his head if he wanted to.
Odds are he just wanted to play sith vs jedi for a little bit and have some fun.
>hes still emotionally fucked from killing his father. If you actually WATCHED the film
Movies are supposed to be show don't tell. Call it what it is; bad writing.
as for ren winning the fight...
has it ever occured to you fucks that she doesn't have to be trained at fucking all to fight with a lightsaber? She was going off pure instinct and trusting the force to guide her hands. That entire point of her closing her eyes and getting in touch with the force bit.
I swear to go this is the dumbest board.
KYLO REN TURNS TO SEE LUKE'S LIGHTSABER LAND IN THE HAND OF REY, WHO STANDS, FACING HIM, HAVING REACHED FOR IT HERSELF, BUT UTTERLY STUNNED THAT IT LANDED IN HER HAND! SHE IS SHOCKED -- AND SO IS KYLO REN!
Holding it with both hands, SHE IGNITES LUKE'S LIGHTSABER FOR THE FIRST TIME, HER EYES BLAZING.
Kylo Ren IGNITES HIS SABER.
It's REY who charges now -- Kylo Ren immediately on the defensive. They BATTLE POWERFULLY -- He is clearly rocked by her raw, innate skill.
I cried when she pulled the lightsaber over, playing lukes music just made me lose it. Again at the end, when she hands him the lightsaber.
In the next movie Luke better have a role as big as Han did in this film
>Turning off his targeting computer
Lets add 1
>Nothing else in the entire movie
>Piloting (though half that was the autopilot)
>Destroying Federation ship
My Marey Sue maths still check
Rey just unbalanced him at the end, plus she had previous fighting experience.
Kylo was weakened from the shot, had his arm cut by Finn, and was emotionally unstable at the time.
You just can't deal with the main character being a girl.
>nothing else in the entire movie
howbout blocking laser blasts blindfolded and mowing down storm troopers left and right? wont even get into anakin because fuck that kid I don't want to think about him.
injured or not there's no fucking way some untrained whore is going to beat a trained Sith, especially when he was originally trained by supposedly the most powerful jedi ever
even more unbelievable is that some random non force sensitive nigger would hold his own for so long against a trained Sith
>can't deal with the main character being a girl.
I love this strawman. Did people give the prequels a pass because it was all white guys? No. Yet it's fags such as yourself who are giving Rey a pass because she's a girl.
They're bringing back lightsabers as things with weight because they wanted legit fight scenes instead of the spinny bullshit of the prequels. They did the same in the OT, though this time the fights are less straight ripped from Kurosawa.
She's already an adult. Can't you drive a fucking car? Spaceships in SW are like cars.
Practiced with blasters found while scavaging
The Force Awakens
The Force Awakens
The Force Awakens
She is skilled with the staff.
When did Luke mowed stormtroopers in EV?
Also he got hit as much as the blocked lasers, I was just enumerating the stuf Rey, Luke and Anakin did flawlesly, no the stuff in which they failed, because Rey didn't fail at anything in this movie.
To paraphrase a post I read a couple of weeks ago somewhere on /tv/ - whether or not Rey is a Mary Sue really doesn't matter, and all the arguing as to how or why Rey could be an expert at this or that is also pointless.
The fact is, she's a BORING, feminist-pandering character, and the movie is worse off for it.
>kylo kicks her ass
>she's pinned next to a cliff
>she closes her eyes and wishes upon the force
>kylo gets his ass kicked
>"IT WAS CHEWIE'S SHOT MKAY! SHE'S NOT A MARY SUE SHITLORDS!"
M A R Y R E Y
>She's already an adult. Can't you drive a fucking car? Spaceships in SW are like cars.
She never piloted the falcon, also no, I can't fast and furious the shit out of a car, she in fact does with a ship in the first time she grabs the falcon.
>Practiced with blasters found while scavaging
Never showed, never telled, nice directing there
>The force awakens combo x3
This doesn't help you with your "not a mary sue" point
>She is skilled with the staff.
She used a lightsaber though, not even similar
Which is why he called himself a 'janitor'.
You know, like how the army is 60% quartermasters and drill sergeants, because they're stationed at munitions depots and training facilities?
I didn't even call Rey a Mary Sue faggot, and she's not. She's not JJ's self-insert. What she is, is the typically boring "strong womyn"
>Better than all the dudes at everything
>Never struggles because everything comes easy for her
>Always makes the right decisions because she's a good role model against the Patriarchy
>Typically previous male MC's are mocked and downplsyed so she can be the superior badass
In Jedi Outcast, you had the choice of using your lightsaber with a light, medium or heavy style when fighting
I always presumed that the way you shift your weight and the pressure you produce in the metal grip of the saber impacts the power generated in the blade
Not Mary Sue, not sure if "strong womyn", but sure as fuck she's a badly writing fanfic main character, fuck, she's a fucking shonen character, form now on I'm going to call her Naruto, no wait, Sasuke fits better because asspulls without explanation.
Kylo Ren's character is a failure on several planes.
It is not just that he's a meme villain. It is that it lacks logic and coherence as a character.
In the beginning of the film he is actually presented as badass. He freezes blaster shots in the air. He has presence on the battlefield. Then 10 seconds later Poe makes jokes on his face.
In ANH Leia faces Vader but she never makes fun out of him and you can see she actually fears him. Poe on the other hand is all like 'lol, u a sith? who cares'.
If Poe doesn't care, why should we? This kills the villain. It transforms him in some short of Jar Jar to be made fun of instead of a character you should respect or be interested about.
Then you get told this guy killed all of his classmates in the jedi temple. This looks like something very serious, not funny. Yet then again they make fun out of him with his tantrums against machines and chairs.
So what is your purpose JJ? Am I supposed to hate this guy because he killed his classmates and Han? Am I supposed to fear him because he's powerful? Am I supposed to laugh at him because he's a loser? This character is just a fucking mess.
And an uncoherent one, because he either is powerful enough to kill all of Luke's students and freeze stuff in the air, or weak enough to not just kill a random stormtrooper and an untrained in the force scavenger (this is both a failure on Rey's character and Ren's character at the same time) in a matter of seconds, on JJ's absurd plot convenience.
>he got shot by chewie's gun
Yeah, whatever. It's still stupid.
desu it seems every next movie the new Jedi gets stronger than the last iteration
Luke clearly ends up being more powerful than Vader in the end, so seems reasonable to assume Luke's daughter will be even stronger still
>people complaining about TFA being a rehash
>Jew Jew fans: but that's what we wanted the OT again
>people complaining about stupid characters and presenting OT ones as an example (not to be exactly copied, but taken as reference)
>Jew Jew fans: hurr durr u want it to be 100% like the OT
you realize he didn't kill all of the jedi students on his own right? In the flashback you see a group of dark clothed people.
As for the poe making fun of him thing, you're fucking retarded. Poe makes fun of them and then minutes later is tortured and forced (honkhonk) to give up the information.
Han solo would have acted exactly the same way as poe. Just a hot shot pilot givin no fucks.
As for kylo character... it's almost like he is torn between what is right and wrong. Between the light and dark. Whether he is a complete badass or someone that still has a lot to learn.
actually the film is way too much like the original trilogy
>crucial information put on droid on desert planet
>inhabitant of said desert planet takes drone to important people
>desert planet inhabitant turns out to be important person for light side of force
>desert planet inhabitant force messiah goes to blow up star destroying laser globe owned by black-clad mask wielding sith who may be a relative
it's just so, so terribly unoriginal
>In the beginning of the film he is actually presented as badass. He freezes blaster shots in the air.
When he has motivation and thought behind it, he is a fucking powerful Force user. The series from the OT onward talks incessantly about how focus matters in using the Force.
It also builds up his character as a poser.
>Then 10 seconds later Poe makes jokes on his face.
It is the same thing as nervous laughter. Many people respond with sarcasm or quips when cornered or afraid. This isn't new to fiction or real life.
He does fear him, that is why Poe chooses to leave immediately.
So in the face of danger every person responds the same? No. Some go completely unemotional and silent. Some jabber. Some make amusing remarks. Some piss themselves.
>In ANH Leia faces Vader but she never makes fun out of him
Leia isn't the antagonizing type except when flirting with Han.
Meanwhile Vader's own subordiates are shown in a scene minutes later poking fun at him. People aren't all terrified of him. Vader's purpose is different than Kylo's too.
>If Poe doesn't care, why should we?
Diffferent characters respond differently. His foes make fun of Kylo while his subordinates cower in fear or walk down the other hallway. Vader is the opposite in ANH. His subordinates don't take him as seriously as his foes. Probably because they had more anti-Jedi propoganda instilled than the Rebellion.
>Told he murdered his classmates
Obviously Luke will clarify what exactly happened, especially since in the flashback we saw none of the fully grown students had lightsabers or were dressed like Jedi.
Your problem is that you don't understand the difference between villain and antagonist.
>mfw all the Sith faggots in the EU are literal Mary Sues
Glad Disney wiped this garbage clean.
The resistance is apparently full of manlets
The first order made their first order of business to gather all the member of the tall gene pool to grow stormtroopers from. Greg must've slipped through the net
Christ, Kylo was weak. He was not only physically wounded but his training was not yet finished AND he wasn't fully 100% committed to the dark side, diminishing his powers severely.
Why is this so hard to understand?
When it comes to piloting, yes. But he was good at only one thing so that's more acceptable than being an expert scavenger, pilot, engineer, sharpshooter, force user and melee combatant, some of those with no prior training
Not headcanon, it's actual canon. From the official movie novel.
Novels are only non-canon in the parts where they directly contradict the movie, and then only those parts are non-canon. You can say it's poorly explained, but it's canon.
>He was not only physically wounded
Rey was hurled at a tree and fell down from like 25 feet, she was hurt too.
>his training was not yet finished
Rey's training did not even begin
>he wasn't fully 100% committed to the dark side
and she wasn't committed to anything, she literally found out that the force was real a few hours before the duel
Dark clothed people with no lightsabers.
Kylo Ren and his swaggy crew straight outta /fa/, yep.
No wonder why Luke went on exile.
>Han Solo would have acted exactly the same way
Maybe. But a good director wouldn't have placed Solo making fun of the main villain he's just presenting to the audience on the film's first scene. At least that's my opinion.
>Meanwhile Vader's own subordiates are shown in a scene minutes later poking fun at him.
It's way different. What you see there is some stupid officer saying 'the Force ain't shit', not strictly making fun of Vader, after which Vader strangles him with the Force until Tarkin asks Vader to release the faggot.
The aim of the scene is not to make a joke. It's to present the power of the Force.
And I'm going to highlight the fact that the one who questions the Force is a faggot officer we're not supposed to respect, while the one who jokes at Kylo Ren in TFA is Poe, one of the Resistance's heros.
You know what I mean?
>His foes make fun of Kylo while his subordinates cower in fear or walk down the other hallway
But again, the purpose of the scene when the stormtroopers walk away, is no other than the audience to laugh. It's a gag. It doesn't build an aura of fear around Kylo Ren. It just makes him more of a Jar Jar like character. A meme.
No. It was Disney cartoon tier unoffensive. The atmosphere of those scenes was clearly humorous.
I actually quite enjoyed the movie aside from a ripped off plot, Rey and slightly rushed pacing.
I accept it as a decent movie while also accepting that it has some tremendous flaws.
>The aim of the scene is not to make a joke. It's to present the power of the Force.
It also makes it clear that not everybody, even the people in the Imperium, is convinced the force exists and thinks the Jedi and Sith are just good warriors.
They can invent a fighting style for lightsabers that doesn't exist for starters.
My spinning dick has a momentum too, but you don't see me spinning it.
>le reddit face
I thought crystals generated the power. But your comment makes sense. I just can't un-see the inefficiency at the webm though.
Only if your mom comes with me too.
It doesn't matter because if the director's purpose was to express the idea that he was weak because of the shot and that's why he failed to cuck Rey, the audience didn't get it at all.
If a vast majority of the audience doesn't get something, that's to blame on the director.
And the vast majority of the audience didn't understand how could Rey beat Ren. And why was Ren such a pussy.
At least that's what I've seen talking with people irl. Clearly here on /tv/ there are a lot of Kylo lovers. Don't really know why.
i think it's complete utter dog shit. i will however forgive them for ripping off the plot if they actually do something original from now on but i think we all know the chances of that
True. I just didn't want to overexplain on the scene.
Clearly it serves as well to introduce the Force as some kind of a religion, mystic thing, not everybody believes in. Just like in the scene with Han and Ben in the Falcon.
I really can't wait to see Kylo at full strength in a duel. I didn't have trouble understanding Kylo was injured bad in that scene. Wasn't until reading shit on the internet I realized.
>not seeing Ren and Rey's fight as the fight that Anakin and Obi Wan should have had in Episode III, in which Anakin's overconfidence in the Dark Side makes him lose when Obi Wan allow the Force to flow through him.
Like, literally? You guys aren't seeing that this fight was more about how the Light can over come the Dark and that this is how Ren truly Falls to the Dark Side and becomes a Sith like his Grandfather before him and for Rey to understand the Force as Luke did before her: an ally?
>uses pain to power up
>still can't beat some 90lb untrained cunt
this is either the dumbest shit ever or Kylo is literally the shittiest Sith ever..... well he did almost get beat by a nigger too
It's a complete different situation.
The faggot general questions the Force and gets punished for it. It's not a comic scene (you may find it funny but it wasn't just a gag to make people laugh like Poe's or the tantrums).
Obi-Wan was a Jedi master and on the council. Rey is as far as we know untrained. I get it but it breaks the lore. You don't just awaken the force. You don't just get good after a little bit.
Part of the reason she beat him is because she started using The Dark Side. I don't feel like the movie conveyed it too well. When Luke used The Dark Side he was yelling and screaming and swinging his saber around like a madman then when he finally had Vader down he just kept hitting him over and over and over with gnashed teeth and pure rage.
>Audience is so braindead retarded they can't make the connection between the bowcaster being presented again and again as a ridiculously powerful weapon and a shitty sith losing a fight
>The director is to blame
You can be the greatest teacher on the planet but if the guy you're trying to teach that 1+1 = 2 has an IQ of 10, you are unlikely to have success.
That's scenes also great because Luke realizes how dangerous it is and how he was becoming his father. He looks at his mechanical hand and then at Vaders smoldering robotics and he realized that he was losing it. Probably my favorite scene in the franchise.
He's not a Sith. The Sith are gone from the galaxy. That could have something to do with it. He's just a poser in every way. I can't wait to see his backstory because I am extremely curious what would make someone go this far into Edgeville when they clearly aren't cut out for it.
>all those faggots babbling about Ren being weak
Yes, he wasn't a powerful Sith lord but the point is that even a weak Sith like Kylo with years of training in the Force and lightsaber combat should wipe the floor with someone who has never held a lightsaber before and found out about the force the day before the fight
Mine as well. That entire section with Luke on the Death Star is my favorite in the whole franchise. The best is when, like you said, he looks at his hand and sees what he's becoming. Then he renounces the Dark Side and just seeing the cool and confident Emperor's face suddenly twisted into anger, confusion, and most of all fear in one shot is what really does it for me.
Why are people still defending rey? Are they really that thirsty for a female lead, that they'll take anything given? Bullshit written or not?
Wow. The Reddit invasion is underway
The bowcaster didn't even make any sense, it's destructive power varied widely throughout the movie. It was practically a grenade launcher capable of ragdolling multiple people early on but Kylo barely even gets pushed back upon getting hit by it. And even afterwards he's strong enough to outrun both heroes and fight both of them back to back while still being able to fling people into trees with the force. Kylo was lame, he was some ungodly strong force user when the movie wanted to be and a whiney tantrum throwing loser when the heroes needed a victory. Weak villain in general. Makes me think Marvel's success is starting to bleed into other properties if this is the best we're getting out of Star Wars villains.
Rey actually does have reasons and explanations how she is able to do so much of the stuff she is (outside of The Force which is the most glaring issue but I'm guessing they're going to Revan her). The problem with them is that they're all in the supplemental materials and not the movie itself so most people won't notice them because the writers couldn't devote even just one insignificant line to explain that Rey found a flight sim training program years ago and learned how to pilot from it.
She also knew about the Falcon because she would sneak on it at night and check out the systems and stuff. She was a good mechanic because she spent most her life taking apart ships. She good in a fight because she's had to fend for herself since she was 5. The last two are easy to figure out just watching the movie.
It actually just feels like a plot hole.
In the prequels when a Jedi is shot (by clones, by Jango) he just dies.
In TFA a weapon that blows up stormtroopers like a grenade, hits Kylo Ren and just makes a wound on him.
Your mind goes "wow, ok JJ". You don't start thinking "hmmm he must have absorbed part of the hit with his superforce powers and now he is weakened or sth". You just try to take it and not be mad about it, like you've been doing with the rest of the plot holes in the movie.
Even then, you imagine a wounded Vader (or Maul, or Dooku, or whatever sith we've already seen) no matter how wounded he was, facing a traitor stormtrooper he would have just thrown him in the air with the force, electroshocked him, thrown the saber to him, strangled him, or whatever. Instead we got a Finn vs Kylo fight where Finn gets to hurt Kylo because JJ thought that would be cool.
It's just as much of a plot convenience as those monsters in Solo's ship instantly killing the bad guys, but giving Finn a ride around the ship just for Rey to save him.
TFA is going more back to the concept that the Force is magic/spiritual and Jedi were just mysterious space monks instead of it being Space Cops with special Force cells.
Hell, Rey got about as much training in the Force as Luke did in the first movie by simply touching the Lightsaber and talking to the cantina lady (Luke had an old Wizard give him his dad's old saber and basically just told him that he could use the Force if he concentrated). Not to mention that we've got two more movies to explain why she's so Force sensitive.
Yeah those last two are things I never had problems with. A woman all alone living in that situation would have to learn how to defend herself and I figured she knew how to fix the Falcon because she'd done so much salvaging, but a lot of people seem to be unable to pick up on stuff like that. I'm withholding judgement on her Force abilities until they hopefully explain it before the trilogy ends.
Yes, the villain is week. In his way to become stronger, since he shows potential (stopping the bolt and shit) and Snoke will have to "finish his training", but still weak.
That was the point.
But the only thing Luke does using the force in ANH is shooting that torpedo in.
Then in Dagobah a movie later he can't do more than move little stones using the Force.
Rey literally got to be more powerful than Kylo Ren in a day.
'We have to stop her before she knows how to use her powers' feels way more of a X-Men thing than a Star Wars thing.
THANK YOU. Like I said in an earlier post, force users are going back to being the magical space wizards they were originally envisioned as. Star Wars is nothing if not smack you in the face literal, hence: The Force AWAKENS.
>Ren was weakened, yes, but he was never very great to begin with.
He Force captured a blaster bolt and left it hovering there for 10mins without even thinking, but we're supposed to believe a guy trained by Luke Skywalker, is unskilled in the use of a Lightsaber?
While Dindu Nuffin and Rey have _ZERO_ Lightsaber training but they can stand their ground against (and even defeat) Kylo Ren?
>a guy trained by Luke Skywalker
Kylo Ren is leading an army to find Luke Skywalker and kill him.
So much for that.
They probably met, got into a fight the first day and then Luke told him to fuck off.
You guys keep spouting MUH TRAINING as if you even know the extent of it.
The movie actually quite literally shows him becoming weaker. You know, because he's defeated by a novice Force user. Did you need inner dialogue from Kylo saying "I'm much weaker now, just for you audience members that haven't caught on."
Just because you need everything spoonfed to you doesn't mean the rest of us do, and it doesn't make the film worse.
Guys, don't you think it's suspicious how much they emphasize that that crossbow thing hits like a fucking truck? They do it like 3 times or so.
Ben was supposed to be pretty badly wounded in that fight, just holding in the pain to get through it.
Jesus fucking christ you sperglords. Disney is a massive corporation that pays lots of very smart people to overanalyze every frame of this shit to make sure it's consistent.
In the Darth Plagueis novel Plagueis and palpatine spend months in deep meditation in an attempt to manipulate the force on a cosmic level which is likely what produces Anakin. Luke could have gone to that planet in an attempt to manipulate the force for the light side which would explain Rey's sudden force proficiency.
something i want to say in defence of the prequels lightsaber duels is like. They're force users, acutely aware of their opponents movements and positions as well as their own. Im sure they have force assisted striking as well so that spinning shit in that gif isnt too hard to believe, both of them are trying to predict and counter eachothers moves in miliseconds
then again im not super invested in starwars lore so i could be wrong
Okay so how about this:
Men's value comes from their struggle. They try, fail then succeed. A boy mudt go through hsrdship to become a man.
Women, on the other hand, get everything handed to them. They never struggle, die or experience fault (it's never a womans fault lads, remember that)
With these two hyperbolic statements in mind, can /tv/ tell me why Rey was written as a Mary Sue?
Bonus points for observations on Kylo Ren and the future of the Star Wars franchise
all you have is "could've". There is no way to defend this horrendously written character based on what we see in the movie. When a movie relies on outside sources to explain a core characteristic of the main hero then the movie has shit writing
She's obviously a Skywalker. Then Kylo's going to join the good guys, ala Vegeta, and they're totally going to pwn Snoke. I've even written the dialogue: Where there's Snoke... YOU'RE FIRED!
>You guys keep spouting MUH TRAINING as if you even know the extent of it.
JJ Abrams, please
We all know what the story will be; Han & Leia have a kid, ""the Force is stronk in this one", Luke begins training him, Bad Guy lures him away with promises of "powah!", etc. and so on.
This is total bullshit. No, it's not that the people saying Ren should have wrecked Rey didn't pay attention, they did, it's that the entire construction is just stupid.
Kylo Ren demonstrates the ability to predict and stop blaster bolts in the first few minutes of screen time. He demonstrates incredible force power off and on at the writer/director's convenience, until his final confrontation with Rey.
In order for Chewy's bowcaster to hit Kylo he had to suddenly lose his power(but wait, didn't he just take his final step to the darkside by killing his father? In every previous canon example doesn't this immediately strengthen darkside characters?) so that he doesn't anticipate the shot, and can not intercept it. This is immediately followed by Finn holding his own against a practiced(Even if Kylo Ren wasn't completely trained he had plenty of practice with his weapon, and presumably melee weapons in general under his training with Luke) opponent, and Rey's complete domination of Kylo Ren's will.
The fact that these things are handwaved by the writers in no way negates how shitty the entire construction is.
Why was Klyo knocking / banging on his breastplate / chest?
He does it 2-3 times, stepping away from the fight and banging on his chest before rejoining the fight.
>tfw fucking vidya cinematics had better fights than we have ever seen in the movies
Would it be so fucking hard ? Blur hit the perfect balance between spinning and impact desu
>mfw in the last movie he's going to have had limbs cut off, has robo hands. Basically becomes darth vader like he wanted and goes through the same turmoil as Darth in episode 6 except when killing Mr Bad Guy except Rey will die instead
idk like others have said, it could be to cause pain to help with his dark side powers, but when i was watching it I instantly thought "That nigga's got a robot body"
Also thats just like a thing to do when you hurt yourself and you're hopped up on adrenaline, atleast Ive done it and some other people i know have.
I thought he only got hit with a glancing shot to the leg?
People will tell you many reasons.
>Numb the pain
>Increase the pain to fuel the Dark Side
And another reason is a more psychological one. If you deliberately cause pain to yourself from the wound you've sustained you're suffering injury from your own actions. In a way it's like convincing yourself that the pain is from you and not them, and that makes it easier to bear mentally.
>mfw in the last movie he's going to have had limbs cut off, has robo hands. Basically becomes darth vader like he wanted and goes through the same turmoil as Darth in episode 6 except when killing Mr Bad Guy except Rey will die instead
He'll probably cut off his own hand.
I just don't know what else other than "jedi can block laser weapons that move at about the speed of a fast ball" was established that the force must absolutely help with in the OT.
Moving stuff, premonitions, blocking things, sword fights. It's nice to see them take down everyone's power levels just a bit
>but wait, didn't he just take his final step to the darkside by killing his father?
It's clear that killing Han didn't have the intended effect. Kylo is confused and panicked. He loses his focus completely. His voice quivers and cracks whenever he speaks during the last battle.
>when i was watching it I instantly thought "That nigga's got a robot body"
I thought he had an armored breastplate on, as you could clearly hear the knocking sound.
I don't understand why this whole argument even started to begin with.
She's not a mary sue.
Neither her, nor Kylo, are very well trained in the use of lightsabers. Kylo is more familiar, but he still wields his like a giant baseball bat.
Basically, it's a fight against someone who is a pretentious faggot who can't control his emotions and a lady who is in control of her emotions.
So, of course Ren gets the upper hand. She has the emotional advantage.
Her prowess with machines can be explained by her familiarity with the downed star ships on Jakku.
She isn't, however, a very interesting character. She doesn't really change over the course of the film and she never really does anything particularly interesting besides fight Kylo Ren.
>Movies are supposed to be show don't tell.
>Wants literally the opposite of that.
Are you face blind or something? Emotions are expressed through facial expressions. If you can't see faces, that might explain why you don't understand this.
>it's a "people refuse to accept the obvious reasons why Kylo lost" episode
>it's on re-run
She wonders around like a child most of the movie. I think of her as a giant manchild, or womanchild, and I think it was by design. She doesn't really know how to act around people because she's been isolated for so long. She actually has a lot of emotional growth potential but that's very Reddit of me to say.
George's head canon was that when activated Lightsabers produced severe stereoscopic forces which was why only force trained combatants could weild them. Mark Hamil and the fight choreographer for the original trilogy wanted to use spins and one handed techniques for the final Luke/Vader confrontation but Lucas kaboshed it.
A lot of it has to do with trying to make her seem innocent, everything for her holds a childlike sense of wonder and every reaction is exaggerated because she's never seen anything but her kitty litter hometown.
>We only find out Vader is Luke's dad in the second movie!
Hahaha wow the writing is fucking embarrassing, why can't the spoon feed us everything that's going to happen in the trilogy in the first movie?
She's even shocked at her ability to wield the force. She says she doesn't know how she did it. There's something inherent about he force ability and it doesn't really piss me off about the character. It makes me curious to see where they are going with it.
Too bad The Old Republic fucking sucks though
they don't give a shit anymore
they added level syncing, and rehashed quests to inflate gametime so retards would ignore the complete lack of endgame
and for some reason they just can't stop raping their characters
No, he did not take his final step. It's implied in the movie with his quivering voice, and trying to act like a super evil dude, he's trying to act cool about it. But he realized he killed his fucking dad and fucked up, because in the novel, it's confirmed as it says that he felt nothing from it, no surge of dark power or anything, and he realizes he fucked up super bad.
>"meme villain" as argument
>Poe makes jokes, Leia never made jokes to Vader
she straight up calls him a dog on a leash
you fucking missed the character so hard, you're supposed to pity this motherfucker. you think there are only two types of characters at ALL EVER- GOOD WITHOUT SIN or IRREDEEMABLY EVIL
Kylo killing Han scene was pretty damn good, the actor pulled off almost-but-not-quite crying Fucking perfectly
you could really see him teetering on the edge of his decision and even though i'd had it spoiled before even seeing the film i waited with bated breath during the scene.
You can understand what's going on in ANH without the knowledge that Vader is Luke's father. A better comparison would be having Obi Wan mind trick stormtroopers and Vader choking Imperial officers without explaining what is the Force, which would be shit writing
>B-B-BUT IT'S NEVER EVEN IMPLIED IN THE MOVIE THAT KYLO FELT BAD ABOUT KILLING HAN! HE SHAKES IT OFF! "MUH IT'S EXPLAINED IN THE BOOK SO IT'S BAD IN THE MOVIE!" ARGUMENT!
He literally has tears as he decides if he should kill his dad and says "I'm torn apart." His voice QUIVERS as he stabs him, and it's obvious he realized he fucked up.
>that sad as fuck "Thank you"
Motherfuckers are so blind that they weren't even paying attention and were trying to hate the movie. It's straight up shown to you in the film and you can't see past it because you don't read past one sentence when it comes to character depth. Then when someone brings up that the book elaborated on it even further idiots like to think it means the movie did nothing and try to use "THEY NEEDED A BOOK TO SHOW WHAT HAPPENED" even though they didn't.
>The moment hears the name she mind fucks Kylo, half the base and escapes
A (protagonist worthy) gifted force user is able to get the upper hand of a storm trooper. A scavenger is able to maneuver around a metal base.
Gee, fuck me sideways tbqh la familia
>hurr durr he hits his side twice in pain
>so it should have been obvious just how weakened he is against this chick that just touched a lightsaber for the second time despite the fact that the choreography doesn't reflect her inexperience or his injury
>i-i'll just pretend it was the same guy sitting here the entire time just trying to find a comeback to that totally brilliant original post
yes retard, weak villains tend to reduce tension
Kylo Ren is not the sole villain of the series OR the movie, he does not need to be a god of unparalleled destruction. Thinking the heroes might die is not the only way to make a film good. There is very good reason to believe that Kylo's role is not to just be a threatening villain, it's to be a character that grows and changes through the trilogy you absolute waste of brain matter.
thinking the heroes don't even have a remote chance of losing because they can pull powerups out of their ass and completely overcome obstacles in unbelievable ways is an excellent way to make a film bad.
ok you pedantic dipshit, i will clarify that he does not *literally* need to be an 'unstoppable god of destruction who never loses' but he absolutely does need to be threatening. and losing to some chick that has touched a lightsaber once before because of a wound that wasn't significantly bleeding and that doesn't change the fight choreography makes him not threatening.