Does it make the things she did in Episode 7 impossible and ruin the series for you?
I really like Star Wars but I'm sick of Star Wars threads.
The whole movie is about an awakening in the force. Rey is the awakening. There is something inherently powerful about her. What don't know what it is yet. Rian will probably explain why she's a Mary Sue.
>inherently knows how to use jedi mind trick
yea no this pisses me off
by all means have her uses telekinesis and shit but being a master out of no where and using abilities she shouldnt know exist are what ruined it
you really cant get what im conveying
Rey has the inherent ability to use jedi mind trick, which is alluded to being extremely difficult to use
on top of this not many people know it exists let alone 50-70 years after the jedi are removed from power
Yes, it pisses me off. I'm just holding out for an explanation. I feel like JewJew is being quite about it because it has to do with the plot. 8 will make or break this movie for me. Other than the Mary Sue shit I liked it.
Honestly, having her trained in the past by Luke but not remembering it but yeah she does kind of remember it because she used what she learn is dumb, and makes her more of a Mary Sue to me.
>Rey has the inherent ability to use jedi mind trick,
If I wasn't sure what you meant why the fuck would you just repeat yourself?
>which is alluded to being extremely difficult to use
So you mean she has a natural ability to use this difficult force power. Okay you could have just said that instead of me having to glean it off your second attempt. Maybe that's the point, maybe they're doing that on purpose to show how powerful she is already. It could be a plot point you know?
>on top of this not many people know it exists let alone 50-70 years after the jedi are removed from power
She knows about jedi, Luke Skywalker specifically, just had her mind touched by Kylo, and just had seen into Kylo's mind. Pick a way she knows about mind tricks, I don't care which.
same, it bugs me.
the fact that she was able to hold her own against kylo or even get the edge against him almost makes sense. he just took a shot from chewie, and noticeably wounded and probably emotionally devastated too.
she has to have some kind of conneciton to the force that is unusual that makes it natural for her to do things. its the only theory that could save the series for me
What a lot of people don't understand is even if Rey is Luke's daughter and/or trained by him she's still a Mary Sue. In fact she'd be even more of a Mary Sue because being the long lost never mentioned daughter of a popular character, and being he best student due to being a natural are Mary Sue traits.
Exactly this, making her Luke's daughter doesn't solve anything.
Maybe they have Jakku be a planet with a "force sensitive" core and after x amount years of being exposed to it, Rey awakens her latent ability? Maybe Jakku is the home of the some Jedi outpost or temple thouands of years ago, and it's buried deep under the planet.
I get where you're coming from, but we shouldn't give this excuse to it.
This idea that a movie should just get away with not telling the story, "because it's breaking it up for the trilogy!" is nonsense to me.
In the original trilogy, sure we didn't know the extent of Luke and Vader's relationship, but we knew enough about it, to make it work within the context of the story. There wasn't much to it, just an ancestral rivalry, but we didn't need to know more.
You can't just do that when you introduce something inherently wrong in the setting. You couldn't just make A New Hope, and not explain why Obi-Wan could convince those guys with a handwave. You couldn't have him do the stuff he does, without explaining what the Force is in the other scenes. Some guy just walking around doing stuff that no one else can do makes no sense without context, and there is 0 for Rey.
>idealized fictional character, a young or low-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities
obi wan fits the description of a mary sue to a tee.
as does anakin and luke.
Different Anon, but please tell me you're not this clueless about his argument.
There's a difference between a cliffhanger ending, and not establishing context for the story.
With one, the story has a direction it's going in but doesn't follow it all the way through, but the story still can stand on its own.
A New Hope didn't end with the Rebels defeating the entire Empire either, it was just the beginning of their war. All Empire Strikes Back is a downer ending.
A Force Awakens, instead of leaving the conclusion up in the air, refuses to explain the context of what already happened.
It's like if we didn't get to see Vader explain that he's Luke's father, and instead we jump to the scene afterwards, where Luke is just hanging from that antenae or whatever, and he's talking about how Obi-Wan lied to him, and how torn he is now, without the movie telling us why he feels that way.
A) Wikipedia? Really?
B) If you're going to go off of that, at least don't go off of the summary part that gives just a general idea instead of a definition. Might as well go with https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Mary_Sue at that point, since at least it's trying to be a definition.
>"(fandom slang) A fictional character, usually female, whose implausible talents and likeability weaken the story."
If you don't feel like copypasting.
by inherently it means she does it without having been taught it, or heard about it, or seen it done before. She just DOES it. Somehow she knows what it is and how to do it. For NO REASON.
Also she has never levitated anything, or even tried to levitate anything, and somehow she is able to suddenly pull the lightsaber away from Kylo, who is powerful and trained and has been doing it for years? Again, something she has never seen, never done, and shouldnt know how to do, she just DOES, and does it better than the guy who is trained and is alluded to have destroyed all the rest of the people that were trained as well.
She has too much ability come from nowhere for no reason. Even if she turns out to be related to Luke or Obi Wan, it doesnt make up for the fact that SHE DOESNT KNOW any of this stuff and it just comes to her.
the point im trying to make is why would you try to attempt something you know absolutely nothing about
its like being held hostage and for some reason saying "execute order green" and you're magically released
it makes no fucking sense for her to know it
but Obi Wan doesnt fit that, nor does Luke. The "unrealistic abilities" are Jedi abilities that anyone with strength in the force and training can get. In ANH we KNOW Obi Wan is a former General and Jedi Knight. Nothing about him is unrealistic for the universe, and Luke? all he does is make a shot that another pilot has already nearly made, while guided by the Force.
Anakin was a Mary Sue in the first prequel, but definitely not in the second and third. And EVEN Anakin didn't just automatically use force powers and mind tricks he had never been shown or taught how to do like Rey does.
>Leia and the Jedi weaken the story.
I don't get the appeal of coming into Star Wars threads when you hate Star Wars
Obi-Wan has been training with the Jedi for most of his life and is on the verge of receiving his knighthood when we first meet him, he is neither a scrub nor does he have unrealistic abilities. Try again.
The thing is, you don't get the difference between a character who is unrealistic, but fits the setting, and a character who is unrealistic and breaks the setting.
I don't blame you for it, since if Star Wars didn't click for you, then you have no real sense of how the setting works, but she goes against all the established rules. She takes suspense of disbelief and beats the shit out of it.
No, you're just too stupid to understand the difference between fictional settings being able to have their own lore and logic, and the rules of good character writing, which do not change no matter the genre.
because im a misogynist and I hate Rey and her stupid fucking "I can use whatever force power Ii want because even though I was just frozen in fucking place I can escape by myself I dont need no man"
in short I think its shitty writing its a glaring plothole thats being filled in with fan theory wank
luke skywalker could barely lift rocks after training for weeks, anakin couldnt do shit as a kid and it bothers me that this person gets OP powers within hours of being captured
luke was saved from being a mary sue in editing when they added the obi wan force ghost. obi wan still goes super saiyan on multiple occassions to defeat seemingly stronger opponents, making him unrealistic.
>JJ either didn't care or has an explanation for later in the trilogy.
It annoys me when people think a sequel's "explanation" will fix this. The problem with mary sues isn't implausibility, it's that they make any story they touch boring because they aren't challenged, they don't have to make an effort to win approval, and they don't require internal changes/development to accomplish their goals.
I just tried to tell a friend this same point. It does not matter if a Mary Sue's abilities are explained if there are no stakes on the line. Silver Age Superman has his powers and sources explained but he is a boring character because he's perfect, can do anything, and thus nothing is ever credible challenge.
It literally doesn't matter if Rey's character and abilities are qualified in the sequel. That argument has no baring on her being a Mary Sue. If she is revealed to be literal space god, it doesn't change the fact that characters like that are BORING. They're unrelatable.
Neo from The Matrix is a perfect example of a protagonist in a fantasy setting done well. There is extreme tension in his final confrontation with Smith. We FEAR for him because up until that point we've witnessed his SHORTCOMINGS and WEAKNESSES. The movie has established that he's not perfect which makes his final fight far more ENGAGING. The odds are stacked against him. In the end he is revealed to be The One; effectively a god with the film's reality. But the reason we route for him and become invested is because we've seen him fail the jump. We've watched Morpheus beat the shit out of him. We've watched Trinity save him on the rooftop and we've been shown the Oracle to know far more than him and give him guidance. The One effectively gets his hand held by Morpheus and Trinity throughout the movie. It makes the payoff of his succeeding far more SATISFYING.
Rey doesn't have these moments. At all. People don't dislike her because she's a woman BUT being a woman is a big part of the reason why she is the way she is. In the current social and cultural landscape, JJ and Kennedy were so afraid of being accused of creating a 'weak' female charcater that they went too far the other way.
And, on a side note, any movie that can't stand up in its own right as a good film and relies on sequels to clarify massive holes in the protagonist's characterisation, has failed in the presentation of that character.
What if all this complaining means nothing? Nobody is going to give an uppity tainted fuck about this shit in like a month from now. In 6 years, you idiots will be defending TFA as an act of genius and bithing about whatever new movie is out.
The Autism Awakens.
To be fair, Silver Age Superman at least had a reason to exist. He was basically just swaggering around the universe, running into ridiculous situations, so the story was more about what he encounters, than about him overcoming it. For what the story was about, it didn't matter if his powers were ridicolously overpowered, because they weren't going for the whole "epic mythos" theme that DC and Marvel are trying desperately to pull off these days, pretending like their characters are straight out of Greek legend.
It's more from an era of story telling that had tales like H.G. Wells' First Men in the Moon, where someone casually invents Anti-Gravity shielding, turns it into a functional spaceship, goes to the moon, eats some meat trees that grow on the moon, and then drunkenly tries to find where he parked his space car, while casually fighting his way through the center of the Moon, which is filled with giant ants.
I'm not even making this shit up.
The point was the idea behind the thing, put against a ridiculous story.
Rey is just kind of there, and the setting and narrative don't fit her at all.
Men from UNCLE
The Man With No Name
John Conner T2
Sarah Conner T1, T2
Most fucking anime protagonists
>inb4 you start trying to justify them by citing their background or magic powers, realize the same shit applies to Rey
>>inb4 you start trying to justify them by citing their background or magic powers, realize the same shit applies to Rey
Are you some kind of idiot? All of those people spent their life training or had at least some training, and failed many times on their path to being great.
Rey instantly excelled at everything she did. She instantly became better at things other people had been doing for decades. She instantly mastered skills that had been forgotten for the better part of a century with no one training her, skills that took even the great Luke, Yoda, Obiwan and Anakin time to learn. She did it first time, no training, no knowledge of it, didn't know it was a thing, she just did it.
That's because this place is full of people who have never touched a woman before. And obviously it's the woman's fault, not that they are unatractive and/or horrible people who have nothing to offer.
>I'm going to reserve my judgement on this until the next movie or if they have an explanation about this at all.
All I can think of is that she was trained by Luke on at least some level because the image of the first jedi temple was in her mind, and that maybe she took some part of Kylo when he was trying to read her mind.
Previous training + stealing some knowledge from Kylo is a good enough explanation I guess
One part of the movie struck me strange, and its only really because its directed by JJ and he likes to do shamalayamanan things. When kylo has Rey strapped in the chair and says " you STILL want to kill me" and as soon as anyone says "girl" he flips his shit.
Could be nothing but I am suspicious because of JJ and his bullshit.