>A strange thing has happened since the release of “Star Wars: The Force Awakens”: people are talking about George Lucas with something other than contempt.
>After Lucas directed the “Star Wars” prequels, the last of which came out in 2005, he found himself in a different critical vice. The new generation didn’t care about the ideals of the sixties. They cared about the ideals of the late seventies and eighties—the blockbuster era. For them Lucas had desecrated a second sacred cultural moment: one that promised not radical change but comfort—the warmth of Tatooine’s twin suns. These people also had Web browsers. Lucas was blasted by everyone from smart-asses in Ain’t It Cool News’ comments section to Red Letter Media’s Mr. Plinkett, who showed, excruciatingly and shot by shot, how Lucas had screwed up.
>I met Lucas during this period. We sat next to a fireplace at Skywalker Ranch, under two very expensive-looking paintings of Queen Amidala, one of the unloved characters of the prequel saga; a portrait of a Dewback creature hung across the room. He was alternatively gee-whiz and grumpy, and his insistence of his rights as an artist seemed like a not-so-gentle reminder that he was one. At the time, fans were furious at Lucas for both the prequels and the changes he’d made—and refused to unmake—to the original films. “Of course, a lot of people said, ‘You can’t do that!’ ” Lucas said. “But artists forever have been changing their work. Even in movies, I’m like the least of the problem. But suddenly I can’t do it or I’m taking away their childhood or I’m doing something that’s just rabid.”
>If success obscured Lucas’s gifts as a director, it also obscured his vulnerability as a human.
I'll always say this. It was the mainstream fans fault what happened with the prequels. The hate they get. They wanted it to be just like the original movies so much so that they denounced any type of growth Lucas' world building in the prequels had. Now with The Force Awakens, it shows how little the mainstream fans care about Star Wars, they just want the same thing. They want that nostalgia, that same thrill. They want the same piece of art, colored differently. Same could be said about all movies nowadays, about life. People just want conformity, they want security in living so much so that people will never progress and art in movies will stagnate, wither and die.. The enemy of progress isn't cowardice, its conformity.
It really shows, its sad that we won't get too explore new things out of the Star Wars Universe. Although I'm holding out hope for the next installment but my expectations are low.
the prequels were just memorable
even if they sucked, most people feel them as part of star wars, liked watching young obi wan, liked palpatine, even seeing young vader. and everyone accepts them as canon
tfa just feels like DA-tier fanfiction
>a bunch of dudes who aren't lucas write sw books
>a dude who's not lucas makes a sw movie
why? is it just because of the medium the differences are more obvious to you?
I love him to bits, I wanna kiss him on the lips.
>Lucas didn’t always think of himself as a great director. (He has often said he was mostly a great editor.)
Lying fuck, it was his wife's editing that saved the original film from disaster.
People don't like the prequels because they are not very good and didn't feel like Star Wars. They wouldn't mind new ideas and new directions and new locations and designs if they were paired with good writing, great characters, and a fun action / adventure story.
Look we all dislike the Ep. VII didn't try anything new with the story and because it's trying to be some kind of a remake it will largely be forgotten in the grand scheme of the star wars saga. However fundementally it's a far better made movie than the prequels are. At no point in Ep. VII did a primary character step in literal shit, get his hand caught in a thing, and get farted on by a space camel. The prequels had tons of grand new ideas, that were all overshadowed by the insufferable childish humor and the dull wooden acting and really strange and sometimes just terrible writing.
The pod-race alone is one of the best things that ever happened in star wars. There is so much world building, great action, character and story pay-off going on in that one scene alone, but it is book-ended by fart jokes, nascar announcers, and a meandering out of focus story that ultimately diminishes how great it is.
You can have great new ideas and still have a movie that isn't bogged down by all the things the prequels did wrong. Those things don't have to be linked.
i'm pointing out that he didn't individually inspect and approve of every pre-disney sw product that everyone has a hardon for. and then he DID voluntarily sell the universe to disney, knowingly ceding creative control to them, thereby tacitly approving all of their decisions/creations as canon, despite his current backpedaling.
>Lucas has it. Some of those writer's have it.
>JJ doesn't. He should be writing computer programs, not movies.
Lucas really shouldn't be writing screenplays either. He's an idea guy at best, capable of throwing interesting ideas into the world for the talented people to craft into something great, but he even fucks that up sometimes by screwing with the things that were already established. See: midichlorians, Jedi in general, changes to the original films, inconsistencies between trilogies for Obi Wan and Vader.
The only films worth considering as "canon" are the original films. The Force Awakens is good, but even that feels disconnected from the original films. Throw everything else in the trash.
>most people feel them as part of star wars, liked watching young obi wan, liked palpatine, even seeing young vader. and everyone accepts them as canon
Knowing that Darth Vader was a whiny insufferable cunt his whole life didn't make his portrayal in the OT better. Knowing that C3PO had already lived at the same moisture farm where he was sold to the same people that had already met him previously (uncle owen) didn't suddenly make that scene in ANH better. Knowing that Yoda and Obi-Wan just announced that they would both become hermits for no real discernible reason didn't really answer the questions as to how they got there in the first place.
People accept the Prequels as canon because you have to because that is the reality of the situation. The sad fact is that almost nothing about the prequels is celebrated as canon because most of it is just fucking awful or diminishes what was already there. Like how does Darth Vader being the one who build C3PO enhance the star was universe? How does knowing that the force is bacteria improve the scenes where yoda is teaching Luke?
Have I actually gone mad?
How did I go to sleep having seen Ep. VII and thinking "thank god something washed the taste of the prequels out of my mouth", only to wake up in a world of prequel apologists?
HOW DID THIS REALITY COME TO BE? IS THIS THE END OF IT ALL??
really? everything i've learned is you spell out any number less than 10, 10 and up are numerals. and come to think of it, years lower than 10 are also shown in numerals in most academic sources i recall seeing.
It's hilarious how quickly the tides turned. Before TFA /tv/ practically worshiped the Plinkett reviews. But it turns out /tv/ didn't care about anything Plinkett actually said, they just want to circlejerk over hating things.
Uh, every writing authority and publication I know of uses numerals for years. Stuff published at university presses, the NY times, etc. It's a quirk the New Yorker uses to feel special.
It's part of the contrarian outlook, make it look like the movie is separate from all other six even though a fucking VII is in the title. Most people who are shitposting this hard probably care very little about Lucas.
You first m8 :)
eh, you're not alone. my friend who's such a sw lunatic he has a sw tattoo, called tfa "star wars: the apology we deserved". you just have to remember you're on shitpostingcontrarian.com
I just wish in ten years they would invite Lucas back to direct another Star Wars, it tanks, and then /tv/ will go back to be hating Lucas because the "patricians" of this board are just people who are in love with being the outside guy.
Probably the best term of it is a "bridge" movie. It has to restart a franchise, placate old fans, introduce new fans, and set up a new storyline while balancing an old and new ensemble cast. It isn't so much a movie as it is a marketing exercise to reset and refocus a decades old mess of material.
It must be fascinating for people that don't understand how 4chan works to watch this ebb and flow of opinions. The people who are honestly defending the prequels and Lucas are not the same people who were starting prequel hate threads 2 months ago. They are the people who were arguing for the prequels in those very same threads. Same opinions, same people, just new opportunity.
Has anyone ever seriously changed their mind about something because some other anon ass-blasted them so hard with brilliant debating skills that they came around to see their opinion as the right one, and their own opinion as wrong?
>Because it has more in common with a reboot than a sequel.
How faggot? Because it has themes that nod back to the original trilogy? If that is what you mean then I can name five film sequels, the top of my head (and without googling) to show you how that is, definitively, not the case.
>Sequels actually add things.
>TFA literally just repeated things with lens flare on top.
Oh, you're an idiot. My bad senpai.
The thing for me is, that I see the prequels and I can see cool new worlds and ideas. Things like the pod race or kamino. They're things that genuinely came from someone with creativity, but then I watch TFA and there's none of that. Nothing that feels new and creative. It's just bland. The prequels weren't good, but at least they weren't bland.
dunno why everyone in the media has run with the "oh yeah when the prequels came out we were HORRIFIED"
it was a vocal tistic minority that people didn't bother to put down and now it's been retconned into "yeah the whole entire world stood still at how bad george fucked up xDDD"
your reddit is showing
>Has anyone ever seriously changed their mind about something because it was easier to shitpost about
ftfy. and yes (maybe not their mind, but the side they're arguing for at least)
Actually TFA has a totally different set of problems from the prequels which is why we are even having this "prequels are actually brilliant" debate all month.
TFA's pacing is too fast, the dialogue feels too smart and witty and doesn't fit the characters, the sheer amount of practical creature effects makes the 2 cgi characters look fake, the on-location shooting makes all of the environments seem really mundane and not alien enough, the music doesn't stand out, the villain has too much emotion and flaws, the characters are almost always in motion and rarely does the film take time to sit characters down to have a quiet moment and explain shit.
This is almost the exact opposite of what was going on in the prequels. Note how that doesn't make it "good".
The guy literally said "I loved it, it's everything I hoped it would be."
Coming from the most cynical youtube film critic out there on the subject of Lucas, that's saying something.
>I THINK THAT LITTLE ANAKIN SKYWALKER STOLE THAT MOVIE
everyone involved in this situation is equally to blame. the fans and Lucas didn't need to obsess about the OT, both just responded differently - the fans by wanting a copy and Lucas wanting to change it.
The sane thing would be for everyone to move on, but TFA is still in cinemas so no chance of that.
Rotj is a conclusion. You dont wanna be adding shit at that point in the story. You wanna wrap shit up. Rotj did that well
TFA is a sequel, the start of a new trilogy story AND it occurs a generation after the previous one. And yet the first thing we find out in the title scroll is REBELS VS EMPIRE LOOL
I just wish all of those cool ideas and new worlds and honestly interesting story wasn't wrapped up in the rest of the shit that fills those movies. It's like you can either have new and interesting ideas but shit dialogue, acting, characters, and a bunch of childish awkward humor. Or you can have the same ideas repackaged in a PC-friendly way but it's really well crafted and gets all of the small shit right.
Man I wonder how many pedos Jake Lloyd had to deal with over the years.
I wonder how many times Rick McCallum made him into a dense scene
>a bunch of people consulted with LucasFilm/Arts/ILM/Skywalker and wrote canonically consistent material
>a giant media conglomerate buys the franchise and abolishes all that so they can do whatever they want with it
how is this is any way comparable?
the pre-Disney canon at least had oversight and consultancy with Lucas, while post-Disney has virtually no oversight
Again, people don't hate that Lucas tried something new. They hate that he tried something new and then covered it in "roger roger" droids, poop jokes, and sand. People REALLY LIKE the story that is going on in the prequels, hell the clone wars cartoons (both) are pretty awesome. But the movies are just really bad and are chocked full of shit that no one should be defending.
>Or you can have the same ideas repackaged in a PC-friendly way but it's really well crafted and gets all of the small shit right.
sorry what movie are we talking about here? because TFA's plot and characters were garbage.
>>I met Lucas during this period. We sat next to a fireplace at Skywalker Ranch, under two very expensive-looking paintings of Queen Amidala, one of the unloved characters of the prequel saga; a portrait of a Dewback creature hung across the room.
Who the fuck lives in a house with that!?
>Lucas said. “But artists forever have been changing their work. Even in movies
Yah, artists do that, but GOOD artists just let their work stand unaltered, love it or hate it.
I did, I just responded to the Specialized Edited Edition with all new Sound Effects and Visuals, your post just was so warped after that I could only respond to that instead of what you originally created.
I was referring to Lucas changing the OT with the special editions, not the prequels.
the tragedy of TFA is that, EXACTLY LIKE the prequels, it is yet another failure to bring everything to bear in an attempt to make a proper Star Wars film.
comparing the two is pointless as they are the same failure in different areas.
You actually have that backwards. There was no overarching story-group before Disney. The books had minimal involvement by Lucasfilm which is why the quality was all over the place and they were often contradicting each other. Timothy Zhan would write some long sweeping war epic that set the politics of the galaxy up perfectly, and then some hack would stumble in and write a book about a giant scrambled-egg monster that ate jedi and was secretly controlling the imperial remnant. And then some other asshole would create Luuuke and have him run around, etc...
Post-Disney there is a Lucasfilm story group headed up by Pablo Hildago that essentially tells the writers what they can and cannot write in order to keep the EU material consistent. There is more control now which is why the material is a lot more bland.
The exact moment I lost any trust in RLM's opinions.
Turns out for all his surgical dissection of the prequels all Mike really wanted was a lazy rehash of the original films, the fucking pleb.
TFA was a remake imo but with a mary sue lead, and a shit villain.
Poe/Finn were great.
I expected JJ and Disney to improve and not have shit like the lucas prequels (3 was good though/ clone wars boba vs obi fight/1 maul fight).
You can LITERALLY apply most of the exact same criticisms to TFA
>action scenes that don't move the plot forward
>contradictions/unexplained shit that's filled in by a novelization or comic
>characters who don't make sense and/or don't actually contribute to the plot
>CGI characters that would've been just fine as practical effects
>blatant hamfisted references and callbacks
>failure to replicate the cinematic tone of the originals
add in the fact that it's not even debatable which films have more original ideas to offer, and I think it's easy to say TFA is as bad or worse than the prequels. PIC RELATED
its only success is in presentation, with the popcorn pacing Marvel audiences now crave.
ironically, Lucas helped set the bar for the current age of CGI abuse, meaningless action and plot as an afterthought. the only difference between him and what we get now is that he was at least trying to make art, even if it was shit art.
No, Just too much of her character (rey) was cheesy/ too perfect, Finn was funny/ heroic and if the characters were terrible the villain is generally interesting, yet Ben sucked.
>lucas wanted to change his own story
That was the entire problem. Maybe because he didnt have complete creative and executive control over the OT and it didnt go exactly as he wanted he started changing all kinds of shit. This was evident in the modified special editions. Then came the prequels and he just decided to not give a fuck about continuity
Lucas sees himself as an artist but he wasnt working with a blank canvas when he did the prequels. Like a lot of modern artist he doesnt understand ideas are meaningless without form
> The pod-race alone is one of the best things that ever happened in star wars.
Yeah that time those Jedi let a child risk his life so they could wager for spare parts was awesome. So world building. Very jedi ethics.
I took my 64 year old mother to watch the film today, she is in total agreement with you.
This is the first thing she has seen that hasn't been a direct adaptation of Jane Autsin novels in about seven years.
The special editions were mostly just test-beds for the digital effects he wanted for the prequels. ILM needed some practice so he gave them a bunch of his scrapped ideas from the OT. He actually made an insane amount of money from the special edition re-releases. They cost him next to nothing to make and he didn't have to split the profits as aggressively as he did with the original releases. Another brilliant business decision.
the aggravating thing is that both Lucas and normies overstate George's involvement. Even the script for the original film, which he "wrote", had massive input from Alan Dean Foster, Francis Ford Coppola, and Brian de Palma. A lot of the more interesting stuff from the film, like the cantina scene and the trench run, are all editing tricks to save what were originally boring scenes. He had minimal involvement with ESB, neither writing or directing it, and while he DID have some pretty big involvement in RotJ, it was still co-written by Kasdan and directed by Marquand. And then for him to testify in front of Congress that those who edit old movies are barbarians, and then to turn around to do it himself because they're "his" movies? He's a childish hypocrite. Fuck George Lucas.
all these George Lucas apologists are either uneducated on the subject or just pure contrarians.
Whoa, I went w two friends (1 a fan, the other has never seen a sw film), we were all disappointed in the film.
The great word of mouth/ fan reviews made me believe it would be the sequel Lucas could never deliver (prequel wise) on.
>so desperate for a new Star Wars to be better than the prequels that you will actually lie to yourself this hard
pic related, it's you
The Jedi were completely ruined in the prequels even without that scene. When I was young and the OT was all that there was people wanted to be jedi because they were cool mysterious badasses and you could imagine that they could get all the chicks that they wanted and essentially laid down the law like wild-west sheriffs and were a moral authority unto themselves as long as they were like John Wayne and didn't let their power and abilities get the best of them and turn evil.
After the prequels we learn that the Jedi were an order of creepy as fuck no-sex allowed monks that essentially stole children at a young age to indoctrinate them, put them all in moisture farmer robes and then give them strict boring jobs to police the galaxy and they never got any interesting force powers, just fast run, high jump, throw rocks, and trick idiots.
It's a reboot that is being used to reorganize star wars into something that Disney can turn into a well-oiled franchise machine. Only idiots and children think that this movie was meant to be some kind of a true sequel to Ep. VI and a continuation of George's vision.
To be fair if I was Disney I would do the exact same thing. Star Wars was kind of a confused mess.
Being a reboot doesn't imply that the story has to be practically the same as a previous movie in the canon. How is it reorganizing a 'confused mess' by copying the story line from previous movies, while many of the things they added were actually the most confusing parts of the reboot. I never said I wanted a true sequel, or anything you said, I (and many others) just wanted something new. How do you even watch this movie if you want to marathon the canon?
You cared enough to post that image anon.
ROTS had a lot more memorable, genuinely good scenes than TFA did.
This was Lucas's plan all along. This is exactly what he wanted.
He gave Star Wars to Disney so that hacks could make bad films with Star Wars on them so that his films would look good in comparison, so that people would finally start appreciating them.
More and more, people are waking up and realizing that the Force Awaken really is a glib facsimile, that it's just a poor imitation of A New Hope, and that the prequels, as flawed as they might be, did one thing these new films don't: they tried. George Lucas tried, and they hated him for it. Well let them eat shit, George. Let them eat shit.
And I love to keep slapping you worthless TFA fags down.
In a few months time, you'll still be here, defending your manchild crap, failing to realize you should have killed yourself a long time ago because you wasted the best years of your life on the internet telling people they're "wrong''.
This and him killing the sand people are literally the only parts of his fall that make any sense. The rest is comically fucked up. I sat in the theater listening to people laugh at him and Padme together.
The only respect in which TFA is better is that its characters generally behave more like humans in their speech and mannerisms. The plot is a direct remake of A New Hope but with the usual JJ Abrams problem of handwaving important plot questions that genuinely need some form of explanation.
I always hated how /tv/, and the greater internet, were impressionable idiots that adopted Plinkett's opinions as their own
Reddit Level Media has no room to pass judgement on anything
Although the acting with Padme and Obi-wan was funny, the wackiest part of his 'fall' was the Jedi temple.
>hmmm, maybe Sheev's right that the Jesi aren't really a force for good and that I can save Padme and bring order to the galaxy
>kill children with my own lightsabre, you say? Seems legit!
agreed. One thing that always left me speechless is the fact that not a single prequel hater ever credited Lucas for his technological push. They were simply repeating what plinkunt said like fucking clones. Lucas deserves way more credit than he gets for everything he did for moviemaking technology and standards.
The only Star Wars film to earn a Rotten Tomatoes result of Rotten was The Phantom Menace, which was actually mixed.
The other movies were well received, both by initial critics and fans. Now many of these same peoe have flip flopped and present a revisionist history.
It's the reverse of Batman in the 90's because back then everyone agreed those movies were shit including the Burton ones. They were the poster child of Hollywood excess with bloated budgets, all star casts, lowbrow humor, poor writing, disrepect to source material, and rampant merchandising and product placement.
It was the Michael Bay Transformers of that decade.
Then Batman Begins comes out and the 1989 Batman is now a masterpiece instead of an okay popcorn flick.
It's not that people suddenly think the prequels are great, it's just that now we have new Star Wars films that aren't awful on the horizon, there's not as much reason to hate the prequels. Before everyone was like "fuck these are the last 3 star wars movies we get and they don't even feel like star wars" but that's not an issue anymore, you can look back at the prequels more as their own thing rather than the last three star wars movies we'll ever get.
I understand 4Chan I've been going here for almost a decade. People really do change their opinions like this. With a site like 4Chan you have no history of opinion to look back on, only a flow. And it moves and changes and it's hard to remember the next month what people were shitposting about last month. Every thread is just lost in time. Like tears in rain.
>inb4 "but there's an archive!"
LOL MFW These Disney Shills are AssBlasted
TFA is a Steaming pile of dogshit.
Its creativity is about as innovated as taking a shit and smearing it all over reys smile so she can smile with that big shit eating horse teeth grin of hers
>Change shit for the OT Special Editions
>People get pissed, and just want the originals
>Deny them that, and keep changing shit with each new release out of spite, making it a little worse each time.
The stupid part about it is that he lets the fans influence him in situations where he shouldn't, and doesn't when he should. Like when he made Boba Fett indirectly the cause of the rise of the Empire in Ep. 2, and threw Chewbacca into Ep. 3 for no goddamn reason other than "Look guys, it's Chewbacca. You like Chewbacca, don't you?".
This is actually a MEME i think we should spam on /tv/ because it literally helps potray to the plebs and memers and reddit retards who can't understand our nebulous and complex lexicons of words that describe how awful the force awakens was in every element. It's a Michael bay Shit Transformers movie labelled as Starwars with the worst pacing.
The Entire film felt incredibly forced and i wanted to walk out like many others i'd presume.
The thing is WE need to make this a Meme to battle the disney shills
THE FORCE AWAKENS IS AS BAD AS TRANSFORMER MEME GO MY FLYING PIGS GO
Leaving aside the question of whether the prequels are any good, Lucas is a hero and a legend. I mean LucasArts made a shit ton of awesome games back in the 1990s, he created Industrial Light & Magic.... and he bangs dusky maidens who are thr true connesieurs choice in women.
Lucas isn't terrible, he just needs people to challenge him at every fucking turn and his responsibility shared by a co director or a great producer.
Also a great editing team. Lucas' biggest problem is he lack's humility in his own affairs
I feel like he wanted to explain the force bacteria thing more, he def should have, in a more coherent way, because exactly how the fuck are the Jedi's supposed to find extremely rare force sensitives around the galaxy?
He went from being a high ranking General in the Wookie army, to some random smuggler's sidekick? Ignoring that, it's all a little too convenient. There's a whole fucking galaxy, why does everybody have to be connected to everybody else?
Even if he absolutely had to have Chewie there, he didn't do anything with him. It's not like he had some essential role in the story, all he did was stand around, and do the Wookie growl thing a few times. You could have had any random Wookie there, and it would affect nothing in the story.
>It was the Michael Bay Transformers of that decade.
This is not how I remember it at all. I never saw a transformer marketing campaign as big as batman's during the summer of 1989. You could not escape the bat logo, that shit was everywhere on earth. It had no competition, so it had a complete monopoly on summer releases that year. Indy 3 had been released in May, the only potential competitor was Ghostbusters 2, and we all know how that went. It was unique in that way, it was the only blockbuster of this summer's window. It has never happened again since.
People were excited to see it too, Burton had been on a roll of successes during the 80's and had plenty of positive cred by then, something Bay still struggles to achieve particularly with critics. It basically was the first big blockbuster capeshit since Superman a decade earlier, there was a real curiosity then because it was still somewhat fresh for audiences. Blockbusters weren't common at that time yet. Capeshit even less so.
It has aged poorly, I do not deny that. Returns has aged much better than the first. However during it's prime, no one ever complained about the directing unlike Bay and his infamous MTV video clip style. Oh and one had Jack fucking Nicholson, the other had Shia. Not quite the same level you must admit.
I dare you to make a thread about Batman returns, see for yourself what /tv/ thinks of it dear redditor...
I didn't even notice Sheev even saying this. Numerous times, apparently as well.
>it's a "i like tfa because its popular and i don't want to be seen hating popular things because people will assume im a hipster" thread
>“But artists forever have been changing their work. Even in movies, I’m like the least of the problem. But suddenly I can’t do it or I’m taking away their childhood or I’m doing something that’s just rabid.”
>tfw you realize Leonardo daVinci kept re-doing the Mona Lisa over and over again for decades, changing it a little bit here, altering it there, so on and so forth
>tfw you realize George Lucas is the greatest artist and technical genius of this era, but we treat him like a useless overly important layabout who doesn't do what we want him to, just like DaVinci
>somebody wrote this about the phantom menace
>handwaving important plot questions that genuinely need some form of explanation.
You understand the point of the first movie in a trilogy is to set up questions that the audience will come back to the other two movies for answers to.
A New Hope didn't tell us what the Force was, not in the detail Yoda does in ESB. It didn't tell us how Obi-Wan would become more powerful by dying, or how Luke was hearing his voice. It told us Luke's father was some kind of pilot and jedi and nothing else. It didn't tell us what became of the Rebellion. It didn't tell us who Jabba was.
Fuck, A New Hope doesn't even tell you who Darth Vader is. He's just some dude in cool armor with a cool power who gets shot down in his TIE fighter and drifts off.
I just hate it when people level arguments against TFA that could equally be applied to the original trilogy. If this shit bothers you, maybe Star Wars just isn't for you.
Nor should it. It's clearly a newer model of the same ship, just like the new X-Wing is clearly an update of the older X-Wing.
It's like pointing at an F-15E and calling the USAF unoriginal for copying the F-15A.
>the point of the first movie in a trilogy is to set up questions that the audience will come back to the other two movies for answers to.
but the movie should be able to stand on its own without leaning too much on movies that don't exist yet
they're going to have to do some serious backtracking to cover ground that TFA should have
that being said, i enjoyed TFA. i just think JJ has this bad habit of posing lots of big questions in his movies without really answering any of them
Rian Johnson has a lot on his plate
I didn't have fun watching The Phantom Menace.
Yes, long before those RLM videos were made. When I first saw Episode 1, I didn't have fun watching most of it. The podrace was kinda neat. I didn't fully grasp its flaws at first, but I found the majority of the movie irritating or boring.
I had fun watching The Force Awakens. Its plot isn't great, but it isn't horrible. But more importantly, it's fun.
I don't care what you fuckers think. That's an important difference for me.
>Timothy Zhan would write some long sweeping war epic that set the politics of the galaxy up perfectly, and then some hack would stumble in and write a book about a giant scrambled-egg monster that ate jedi and was secretly controlling the imperial remnant. And then some other asshole would create Luuuke and have him run around, etc...
It was Timothy Zhan who created Luuke. And it was more interesting than anything in TFA.
>no interesting force powers
The force is meant to be hard to learn and near impossible to master. You could do anything with the force in the EU. One dude was on the Jedi Council because he could set shit on fire with the force.
>“Why would I make any more of those when everybody yells at you all the time and says what a terrible person you are?” Lucas said of the “Star Wars” movies. “I say, yeah, I don’t need that any more than anybody else does. We’re all doing this so we can either make a living so we can buy dinner or to get a little adulation to verify you as a worthwhile human being. And if you don’t get either one of those why are you doing it?”
>Ten months later, Lucas sold the company.
super star wars fan watch phantom menace with not so star wars fan friends
come out movie
that movie was pretty boring anon the lightsabre fight was cool though
dont worry guise is just a set u[p wait till the next movie when anakin goes on all these adventures and slowly trends towards the darkside
>I had fun watching The Force Awakens
The first half is kinda funny in its own autistic way, the second half has to be the driest, dullest thing to ever come out of a star wars movie.
Buzzword is also a buzzword.
It's entertainment. If you're expecting Star Wars to be some arthouse flick you were setting yourself up for disappointment. I was entertained by the movie. That's why it's better for me than other movies that didn't entertain me.
>the villain has too much emotion and flaws
I agree with the other things (and there are a fuckload more problems, like all the coincidences and just a totally fucked up and contrived political setting to begin with) but I disagree with this. I think that the conflicted villain was the only interesting thing in the movie. I think it would have been a much better movie if it had just been about kylo hunting for luke and ditched the starkiller filler shit.
what are you stupid ? the original movies were true works of art. no ploitholes not caheesy dialogue. just pure unadultered brilliance. this hack jj took everything good about star wars and rehashed it covered in shit
The lightsaber fight was fucking stupid. The over-choreographed dance-fighting was silly and it took me out of the action entirely.
Meh, TFA did not need more references to ANH. Dismissing the ship on first sight is enough of a STar Wars tradition, it doesn't need a word for word quote.
I'll play a bit of devils advocate here though, since the first points you included are generally what's considered good about the movies (Except stop holding my hand!)
Anyway, who thought the idea of black tie-fighters would be a good idea?
>no ploitholes not caheesy dialogue
Have you seen the movies as an adult?
Also, are you drunk? Holy shit, spelling is not that hard.
The OT is full of cheesy dialogue, several plot holes, and scenes that are only fondly remembered by hardcore fanboys. Even the actors think a lot of the dialogue was silly.
Pic related, "unadulterated brilliance" by your definition.
Agreed. Kylo Ren being an emo whiner rather than a badass was one real risk Disney took. They could have just made him a Vader expy and called it a day, but they didn't. I respect that.
i see you didnt notice the sarcasm in my post. the ot were fucking camp fest central. jj out did it and made it better. milenials who never experienced the ot without pretenses are being sheep and following youtube reviewers who say shit to be edgy for view counts it's hilarious. these people seriously think the ot wasent adam west tier sci fi
You dont understand how basic storytelling works.
Not everything is explained in ANH but we discover it as the characters discover it, it goes in chronological order, so there is no wooo mystery secret dark past, we simply follow the heroes on their unfolding journey
TFA is written backwards. Like all this shit has happened in the intervening years but we dont know anything and the characters WONT SAY ANYTHING. Its just cryptic messages and "stories for another time". Its retarded and cheap
>making pointless and shitty changes is now considered good thing
So the article is saying we should be nice to Lucas, we should not criticizes him too much, just, because he was once successful?
Fuck all of you who have changed opinion about prequels just because of TFA.
You are easily manipulated fools.
>there is no wooo mystery secret dark past
To dismiss a rather widely-used trope as universally bad makes you rather hypocritical to tell others they don't know how storytelling works.
>you said trope omg tvtropes faggot
fuck off, trope is the actual word for it. Just inb4ing because the word trope always triggers /tv/.
>the characters WONT SAY ANYTHING
The characters don't spend half the movie discussing irrelevant details at painful lengths that they already know. This is a negative? We're given the important information. Kylo is actually Han's son. Luke poofed because Kylo killed his apprentices. Snoke misled Kylo, but Kylo isn't wholly evil.
>Fuck all of you who have changed opinion about prequels just because of TFA.
This. The prequels have not changed. If they were bad movies before TFA came out they should still be bad movies after TFA came out.
the funny thing is that's correct . they were all shit
but at least the ot and the tfa is enjoyable shit the prequels were just bearable cause people kept waiting for it to become enjoyable and it never did
shared hate of jj
i saw this movie twice senpai third time soon best movie experience in awhile or is everyone going to see it sjus2t so they can talk about how shit jj is ?
yea that must be it
Fuck, Ebert gave Phantom Menace a 3.5/4 and growing up I can't remember a single person who didn't like the prequels.
TFA is alright, but it's honestly my least favorite Star Wars movie.
Anyone who can say with a straight face that TFA is their least favorite Star Wars movie is either lying, or retarded.
>Thinking that comment was anything but sarcasm
I mean I get it, tone of voice not existing in text at all. but I have to believe there is a limit to how stupid someone can get, and I make assumptions over people's intentions based on that.
there are more critics than Ebert. if you care to look back at the general critic consensus at the time of TPM's release, the movie was panned. so was AOTC. even ROTS, which some consider to be Lucas' "redemption", was met with a lukewarm response at best.
Literally nobody liked the Clone Wars movie.
seriously though, with Attack of the Clones on the table? Finn and Rey aren't half as bad as fucking Awkward Teen Vader and Padme whining about how sand is sandy.
>Execute order Star Wars™:Episode III Revenge of the Sith™
how could you forget that iconic line?
>>rey has mary sue powers why? Dunno
I thought it was really clear that she had some training and it was related to the incident that caused Luke to go into isolation. Like, really fucking obvious. Do you need your hand held this much?
>>kylo.is an edgelord why? Lol dunno
>>luke is missing why? Dunnnoooo
Oh, apparently yes you do, because THESE QUESTIONS WERE LITERALLY, DIRECTLY ANSWERED IN THE MOVIE
Han practically looks straight into the camera and explains Kylo is being misled and seduced by Snoke. They outright fucking tell you this. They also tell you that Luke went off to meditate in solitude because he lost his new order of Jedi when Kylo attacked them. Not only do they tell you this, Rey has a fucking vision where she sees it.
Why are you bitching about a movie you clearly didn't actually watch? Or if you did watch it, do you have literal brain damage?
>empire is basically a husk and vassal state
>wait shit people like the underdog more
>oh no the empire is the top military power once again and now there is a resistance
Roger "video games are for children and not one has ever had any artistic merit" Ebert and his retarded old world views on films are way overrated.
>recommended horrible movies like The Passion of the Christ, The Social Network, Crash, and so on. Originally trashed Raiders of the Lost Ark, then re-evaluated it once it got really popular
come on guys he didnt give it a glowing review he praises the special effects and bashes the fyuck out of characters and storyline listen to 4:30 " WHERE IT SEEMS IT'LL PAY OFF IN THE NEXT FILMS" i saw a thread earlier about ebert liking the the prequels ....thank god iim old enough to remember all this and thank god is on the internet for everyone to see who actually go do the research to find their own answers instead of listening to talking youtube heads
>attack of the clones 2 stars
>REVENGE OF THE SITH 3.5 STARS
>The dialogue throughout the movie is once again its weakest point: The characters talk in what sounds like Basic English, without color, wit or :ROGERT EBERT
>n many cases the actors are being filmed in front of blue screens, with effects to be added later, and sometimes their readings are so flat-ROGERT EBERT
3.5 stars doesnt mean it still didnt suck
roger is being roger
not to mention it's fucking hard to believe that chewie , friend of han"i don't believe in the force" solo would never have mentioned how that 1 time 30 years ago when a lot of the republican generals where jedi's and how he personaly knew the head of their order
come to think of it , how the fuck are the jedi so damn unknown in Ot when they where super important 30 years before
>obi wan basically just hangs out with luke tells him "use the force" and martyrs himself without cluing him into much
>yoda fucking dies to avoid answering when luke asks if Vader is his father
>3.5/4 doesn't mean it didn't suck!
Maybe he'd be understood more if he didn't have the most fucking obtuse means of reviewing movies. Why even have a rating or number of it literally has nothing to do with his actual opinion of the movie?
>attack of the clones
>But what about the agnostic viewer? The hopeful ticket buyer walking in not as a cultist, but as a moviegoer hoping for a great experience? Is this "Star Wars" critic-proof and scoff-resistant? Yes, probably, at the box office. But as someone who admired the freshness and energy of the earlier films, I was amazed, at the end of "Episode II," to realize that I had not heard one line of quotable, memorable dialogue. And the images, however magnificently conceived, did not have the impact they deserved. I'll get to them in a moment.
Obi-Wan doesn't seem to remember R2 and C3PO, even though Vader fucking personally built C3PO and he's a distinctive color. Why? Because the PT introduced so many fucking plotholes it's ridiculous.
I didn't mind that, actually. I enjoyed the 30's Flash Gordon thing it had going on.
because roger knows what's up. he gave cloud atlas a good review whereas most critics bashed it. he didn't follow mainstream pretenses, he was a pure film critic. rip
it's a shame he's not here to have torn apart tfa.
the general population have no knowledge of
the haitian revolution
young fags prob dont even know about the berlin wall, malcom x ,tienneman sq, nelson mandella
why dont you go read the reviews from ebert look son you can even watch the the review so you dont have to read
he bashes every single one of them for the bad story, screenplay, and acting but praises the cgi
fucking people nowadays have add i post actual quotes of him bashing it
The funny thing about TFA is that while the prequel trilogy was guilty of many sins, the sequel while parting with those, brought tons of its own.
Different kind of turds for different kind of turd eaters. At least the prequels felt like they happened in the Star Wars universe.
>it's okay, the sequels will fix it!
The Force Awakens was meant to work as a standalone film, like A New Hope and Phantom Menace, with no ties to previous and upcoming work besides an overarching plot.
You NEED to have seen the original trilogy at least to even know what the fuck is going on in The Force Awakens.
You NEED to go see episode 8 and 9 when they come out to get the whole story.
Enjoy your literal capeshit Star Wars.
this is a galaxy if people dont even know about current events on planet earth what makes you think some scavenger girl on a desert planet would know about shit from 30 years ago in a GALAXY
>The Jedi were completely ruined in the prequels even without that scene. When I was young and the OT was all that there was people wanted to be jedi because they were cool mysterious badasses and you could imagine that they could get all the chicks that they wanted and essentially laid down the law like wild-west sheriffs and were a moral authority unto themselves as long as they were like John Wayne and didn't let their power and abilities get the best of them and turn evil.
born a beta, die a beta
>But they were allowed to have sex. They weren't allowed to have emotional attachment. Lucas basically said so himself.
yes, well lucas thinks he understand buddhism and has a fantasy of pumping an dumping in agreement with the dhamma. Lucas is the typical white buddhist who wishes to remain hedonistic as long as possible.
>it was really clear she had some training
>from a 5 sec mystery flashback when she was a toddler
>kylo is an edgelord cos he got tricked by snoke
>luke went of to meditate after losing his students
If you accept these explanations then you are the babby retard
you suck at reading comprehension
> The dialogue is pretty flat and straightforward, although seasoned with a little quasi-classical formality, as if the characters had read but not retained "Julius Caesar." I wish the "Star Wars" characters spoke with more elegance and wit (as Gore Vidal's Greeks and Romans do), but dialogue isn't the point, anyway: These movies are about new things to look at.
>he introduces Jar Jar Binks, a fully realized computer-animated alien character whose physical movements seem based on afterthoughts.
>The plot details (of embargoes and blockades) tend to diminish the size of the movie's universe--to shrink it to the scale of a 19th century trade dispute.
> (for instance, when Jar Jar's people and the good guys fight a 'droid army, it becomes obvious that the droids are such bad fighters, they should be returned for a refun
you really suck at reading son
>The film's shakiness on the psychological level is evident
>As for the bad rap about the characters--hey, I've seen space operas that put their emphasis on human personalities and relationships. They're called "Star Trek" movies. Give me transparent underwater cities and vast hollow senatorial spheres any day.
Lucas had dreams, but no ability. Disney has talent, but no soul. The one thing that made Star Wars truly wonderful no longer exists and the very fact that people can't see this, critics even, only serves to legitimize the ongoing trend of big, mindless blockbusters that dominate theaters.
This is only the moment we realize we're stuck in quicksand; we've been sinking for some time now. Given their political clout, I fully expect Disney to maintain a vice-like grip on their intellectual property until long after we're all dead and buried.
This whole thing is some sort of Monkey's Paw tale, only I can't wish away the horror.
>The one thing that made Star Wars truly wonderful no longer exists
It's funny that this applies to Disney too. Imagine how different things would be if Walt was still around, or even his brother.
Yeah, that's absolutely true. There were moments, but they're increasingly rare now and I don't know if they'll ever come back.
I think the film industry has to crash before they're desperate enough to try originality again.
You don't have to be into gay fanfic bullshit to know that Poe & Finn, and Han & chewie had the best on screen (platonic) chemistry in the entire movie. Rey was bad with every interact, both because of his she was written and subpar acting from daisy
It's sad looking back at old Disney movies right up until the 90s and seeing obvious care taken to create stories with heart and charm, and then seeing things like this and frozen shat out that are made solely for mass appeal.
The most obvious contrast is listening to the music in frozen compared to beauty and the beast or Peter Pan or Alice in wonderland. The frozen music had no real character, it's just generic pop sounding music with catchy hooks. its weird how the music so accurately reflects how the movies were made, and it's no different with this Star Wars compared to older ones. It's just generic back ground music with the odd old Star Wars melody to create familiarity
Frozen? Frozen was probably the most interesting thing they've done in years. My only complaints about Frozen are the tacked on singing and talking kid's toy. Other than that the film was a joy.