>>64490024 While it is a "point A to point B" run, there are many different routes between those destinations, however the shorter ones are far more dangerous and require faster ships to travel safetly through.
>>64490171 Had this argument with someone about her 'flaws'. They said that her flaw was nostalgia and not being able to let go of the past/her dreams.
I pointed out that, not only did that never effect the plot in the slightest (every time it threatened to do so, something or someone pulled her back before she got 3 steps), but she also lacks the basic human flaw of being bad at stuff. She never fails to do a task, she's at least competent at everything, and whenever they focus on something she does it amazingly well, better than her opponent/anyone else in the scene.
>OH YES OH YES THANK YOU SO MUCH DISNEY 10/10 WAY BETTER THAN THE PREQUELS, PLEASE PLEASE MORE NOSTALGIA ... >"Han! You owe some money to somebody! You better pay up!! >OMG HANS BACK TO HIS OLD TRICKS LMFAO THANK YOU THANK YOU
>>64490503 New EU is only "canon" for marketing purposes. Disney still only cares about the movies, you'll never see Ahsoka or Han's black ex wife or Savage Oppress in the movies and Luke and Vader's first meeting was still in ESB
>>64489887 It's a reference to a line Han delivers to Obi-Wan and Luke in the Mos Eisley cantina: >Han: Fast ship? You've never heard of the Millenium Falcon? >Obi-Wan: Should I have? >Han: It's the ship that made the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs >Obi-Wan: ("I know what game you're playing and you ain't fooling me" face expression)
The Expanded Universe explained that the Kessel Run itself is a name for a safe flying path around the Maw. The Maw is a small part of the galaxy full of black holes, so "making the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs" it means the Falcon was capable of flying closer to the horizon of no return of the Maw's black holes, due to its superior navigation computer.
But in the original movie it was just a throwaway line shouted by Han to impress his potential costumers with false promises and lies. That's why Obi-Wan gave such a facial expression.
Both the EU and TFA missed the whole point, and made a mountain of a single grain of salt. Also, it kinda doesn't make sense that no other ship has outranked the Falcon in its record in the last thirty years. And it clearly DOES NOT MAKE ANY FUCKING SENSE THAT A NOBODY LIKE REY WHO HAS NEVER LEFT HER DESERT PLANET AND HAS SPEND MOST OF HER TIME SCATTERING FOR A LIVING WOULD KNOW ABOUT THE FALCON'S RECORD.
>>64491015 Ah yeah, in Spanish you would say "horizonte de no retorno", which is roughtly translated as "horizon of no return". But now that you corrected me, I think "event horizon" is used in its direct Spanish translation too.
>>64491291 >Worked for Anakin. Hate and cybernetics will take you a long way. What kind of bullshit is this? Anakin was alive and conscious as his body was sizzling. Maul was chopped in half. Don't give me what those moronic cartoons say, anon.
>>64491335 Maul was alive when he fell. As the lightsaber cauterized the wound, he wouldn't bleed out, so if he didn't die of shock he could be alive long enough for someone to get him to a doctor-bot.
>>64489489 THIS BE DE MIRRENYUMM FALLcon, nd u must be HON SULU innit dis means dem jedis be real >begins mentally prepping midiclorioans to mind control stupid mantrooper, force pull mysterious lightsword that grants 420 visions and slay the evil white man who is the most feared sith at present who killed countless jedi under the nose of jedi master luke Pity Rey wasn't in the other movies, they'd have only needed to make one >Rey wakes up on jakku >Finds the millenium falcon >captured by vader upon death star >LET ME OUT > "oh and leave that lightblade" >escapes with vaders weapon >Obi wan sacrifices himself >Rey avenges him by slaying vader after she concentrates for a few minutes while saber locked with vader >Runs into falcon GTFO han solo im drivin >Drops thermal detonator which blows up death star as our team of hereos live >Guess the ball's in our court know >HAN GOES WILD >CINEMA GOERS GO WILD >/TV/ BTFOOOO
>Force pull the emperor >Emperor btfoed by rey while finn holds off 6 imperial guards before dunkin all over them
>Kill off poe, realize he's only likable character >OHSHiT we already filmed him dying >Surprise he's still alive Best pilot in the galaxy saves le day LUCKY THOSE PESKY SHIELDS had been dropped by the evil feared commander So realistic and shows how battles can and do swing! Don't give codes > win battle, war, maintain superweapon that can wipe planets and that cozy feeling of a job well done Give codes > Lose battle, death ball destroyed, ground forces took a hit and your lord is grievously injured >That captain phasma is a good, well thought out character.
>>64491188 The old EU was obsessed of detailing absolutely every single element of the Star Wars universe. Have you seen that cheap looking puppet at the backgrund of that scene? That's a member of a race from yadda yadda yadda.
They also expanded single actions into entire traits of entire species for some reason.
Killing the EU was the best thing Disney did. It became a bloated unmanageable piece of crap.
>>64492000 I never said it was a good idea, just that it fits with JJ's general tier of writing and his history. Although it's not something stolen directly from the OT, so I don't know if it would make it past the editors.
>>64491699 I don't understand why people think a fleshed out universe is a bad thing. Why does it bother some people that they gave some minor characters their own backstories?
Do you people realize that Tolkien's universe and C.S Lewis' Narnia has the same exact thing? Some of the "random" orcs or Rohan knights you see in the LOTR films as extras have pages and pages of backstory.
>>64490261 Han and Phasma will work together as mysterious masked warriors in the sequels. They'll have both met in the trash compactor facilities and get ejected from the Death Star before it explodes. Screencap this.
>>64492271 The problem is that every fucking character that appears on screen for even a fraction of a second all of a sudden has this super elaborate backstory and is super famous in whatever their line of work is.
Like IG-88 taking over the death star and making it sentient.
>>64493933 Well, usually people who hang out in shady bars and around villains have a story. It would be dumb to give the basement dwellers like 4chan users a backstory. They aren't seen because they don't leave the house.
>>64494063 You really think the Stormtrooper who said "look sir, droids!" had to be the unsung hero of the Rebellion who was disllusioned with the stormtrooper corps and murdered his commanding officer so the Millennium Falcon could escape?
Or that the black guy with the ice cream maker in Cloud City was actually a secret rebel spy and the ice cream maker was actually a computer with Imperial secrets on it and he was running to get them to the Rebels?
or that the crazy nose guy who had the death sentence in 12 systems was actually a genius scientist who had his own army of zombies and cloned himself to escape death after being murdered by Boba Fett?
There's a difference between worldbuilding and pure autism and making everyone a special snowflake
>>64489752 It really wasn't. In the first movie Han's a nobody, if doing the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs was so great he wouldn't be. He's bragging about it because he has nothing better to brag about. With all his way better accomplishments no one would remember that shit in two years let alone twenty.
-I don't mind her being a good ship mechanic. She makes her living as a scavenger, she needs to understand how ships work, what goes where and why, and how to add/remove components or she'd have starved already.
-I don't mind her being OK with her staff, if she couldn't defend herself she would have been raped to death/sold into slavery/both before TFA even starts.
-I am less OK with her being a capable pilot, since how did she learn that?
-Ditto lightsabre fighting, even if she was duelling a guy who got fucked up by the Star Wars version of an Anti-Material Rifle.
-ESPECIALLY ditto her mastering Jedi shit like the Mind Trick on the fly when we've seen that you need to have mastered the subtleties of the Force and practice it to get that to work. I get that she's probably Luke's daughter or was at least trained by him before being mindwiped, but who the fuck teaches kids the Mind Trick and of all the stuff that was mind-wiped, why does that come back so conveniently?
I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to call her a Canon Sue or a Mary Sue, but I think it's fair to say certain things about her character don't make that much sense and that can be irritating.
>>64490909 >Famous smuggler makes a totally unrealistic claim >The falcon making the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs becomes his unique selling point >same guy ends up becoming a respected leader and general of the Rebel Alliance >the Falcon was part of the destruction of both Deathstars >Han returns to his old life as a smuggler At this point everyone should know of Han Solo and the freakin' Millennium Falcon why would he ever stop claiming that he made the Kessel run in 12 parsecs?
>>64489717 >episode 8 >Rey finishes her training Luke and her go their separate ways >Rey returns to Rebel Base >Rey, Finn and Chewie get attacked when the First Order finds the rebel base >trapped with three stormtroopers aiming at them > sudden loud boom >three stormtroopers lay dead in cloud of smoke >Han walks out from smoke in robot legs >cigar in mouth bow caster in hand >"I'm getting to old for this shit" >clapping by American audiences trigger devastating earthquakes across country
>>64499401 Vader was kicking his ass in the beginning of the fight. Stop dancing around the point that Luke used the force to beat Vader and it wasn't saber ability or technique.
What do you think Jedi training is? Do you think it's about waving around your lightsaber so many minutes a day and practicing mind tricks on your friends until you master it? That's how you practice a sport, a physical ability. That's not how the force works.
>>64499352 Kylo isn't Vader tier stupid, this is one of the biggest mistakes people make when whining about Rey. They compare her to Luke who was fighting Darth Vader. Kylo Ren is no Darth Vader, or did the movie not make that clear enough to you?
>>64499278 >smoke clears >Han Solo wielding 2 light sabers and a pistol >"TELL JABBA I GOT THE MONEY WE'RE GONNA HAVE COMPANY DONT EVERYONE THANK ME AT ONCE IM THE CAPTAIN THE MILLENNIUM FALCON SHE'LL MAKE 5 PAST LIGHTSPEED GET IN HERE YOU BIG FURRY OAF NO REWARD IS WORTH THIS DONT GET COCKY KID YAHOO!!!" >the sheer nostalgia starts melting the audiences faces with pure pleasure and the only reaction they have is to clap
Nigga, it wasn't that we think "Rey trained less than Kylo", SHE HADN'T TRAINED AT ALL. Completely unprecedented.
Then she learns the mental parts of the Force all on her own? After Luke had to do mental gymnastics in Dagobah for the longest time to get his mind right, and still couldn't stop shit like mind reading from Vader?
They establish Kylo is good at mental force ability at least. The pausing the blaster thing, that is very taxing. He takes pride in mental interrogation. So why's she resist him at that as well?
>>64491394 Kylo wasn't done being a secret resistance agent. He knew what must be fake killing his dad to keep Snook's trust. He stabbed Han in a non fatal way that was merely a flesh wound then force froze him out of sight from the others and later moved him to a shuttle. Why else showcase his unique force power so much? Also explains why he didn't kill Finn and why he allowed himself to lose to Rey
>Snoke is interested in Kylo because he's always teetering between the dark and light >Snoke takes Kylo in and makes a bunch of clones of him >Snoke wants to achieve balancing the force somehow by doing this >The Knights of Ren are all just clones of Kylo >The Kylo Ren that killed Han is the chaotic evil edgelord >the other Knights of Ren include a "True Neutral" Kylo, "Lawful Evil" Kylo >This is revealed after Rey confronts Kylo again and he doesn't have a facial scar and seems to have a completely different personality >It's also revealed that Rey is a female clone of Kylo >Rey is also the "Good" clone obviously >The whole war was orchestrated as a way to "awaken" the force >the is because the force apparently needs the presence of adversity to thrive, darkside and light together >Snoke is actually the good guy >Snoke brings balance to the force >at the end of episode 8, Snoke puts on Vader's melted helmet and says "Now, I am Vader"
>>64499537 If you can't reply competently and actually respond to the post then don't bother.
>>64499602 I asked you a very simple question about RotJ anon and you just can't stop spilling your spaghetti about TFA. Calm down. Did Luke beat Vader because he was suddenly better with a lightsaber? No he fucking didn't, he used the dark side to start beating the shit out of Darth Vader. If there's one fucking thing the OT establishes about the force is that it's beyond the physical.
Obi-Wan and Yoda don't tell Luke the finger positions for telekinesis or the right tone for the mind trick. Every time someone is learning about the force in the OT, it's being explained philosophically. The Force is not this video game power you need a certain amount of exp to unlock. It's not that mundane. You want it to be like a martial art or a sport that you practice every day. It's more like a religion that requires faith and believe.
Why the fuck do you write like a brat? I don't have to answer your loaded questions specifically so you can respond with a trite answer, I'm not your personal strawman you faggot.
It's a religion that requires guidance and insight to master it. Not mere conceptual and cursory knowledge of its existence. Luke goes through a long journey from Obi Wan's initial guidance, to Yoda's training, to gain the connection and mastery of the Force necessary to wield and utilize its powers. These all come to a head in RoTJ, and DELIBERATELY. The mind trick, the fighting ability, it's all the product of his training and journey. Not a fucking "awakening" over the span of a day.
Even going by your logic it doesn't make any sense. Unless, we are going to make her, head and shoulders the GOATiest of GOAT Jedis of all time, able to channel the Force and any aspect of its power by merely conceptualizing it, like a joke. I'm not going to be happy with belittlement of that degree and that would clearly make her a Mary Sue.
What's she going to do in the next movie? Teach Luke how to wake up the force?
>>64499892 >What's she going to do in the next movie?
That's one of my biggest worries for the next movie honestly. Shit reminds me of DBZ and Rey just has fucking nowhere to go.
She already got off her shitty desert slave planet. She's already as powerful as Luke was at the end of ROTJ and she might own the Falcon(?). Starkiller is already blown up too and its been established she can best the villain
They can only fix it in one of two ways >make up a bunch of new force powers to learn so she can master >OR make Luke/Snoke fucking overpowered as shit and have them throw around star destroyers to compensate
They fucking wrote themselves into a fucking corner
>>64499892 >perfectly related questions are a trick so I won't answer them Okay then you can fuck right off. I just though that if you wanted to talk about the force I could bring up examples of people using the force to win lightsaber fights, but actually I guess referencing examples in other movies is some kind of dishonest trick by me.
>It's a religion that requires guidance and insight to master it. >implying Rey mastered anything You know mind tricking a stormtrooper isn't that impressive right?
>able to channel the Force and any aspect of its power by merely conceptualizing it Then you've completely ignored everything told to us in the OT about the force. Do you think Luke is blocking laser blasts in ANH because he got the muscle memory down after the few failures or is it because he's opening himself up to letting the force control his actions?
>>64499767 "balance to the force" isn't actually a balance between light and dark side though. the dark side is the corruption of the force, and the light side is just "normal". Balance just means light side.
>>64500025 >She's already as powerful as Luke was at the end of ROTJ Retard alert
>make up a bunch of new force powers to learn so she can master video game shit
>OR make Luke/Snoke fucking overpowered as shit and have them throw around star destroyers to compensate power level shit How about her natural talent makes her, well arrogant. What if how easily and quickly she learns to use the force leads her to the dark side?
That isn't one question in a microcosm. As we've established, this power is fucking dynamic. Regardless, it requires guidance to master, at the very least time to train and meditate.
>you know mind tricking a stormtrooper isn't that impressive right
a bloo bloo bloo you know they deliberately don't show Luke using that ability until RotJ, right?
>Then you've completely ignored everything told to us in the OT about the force. Do you think Luke is blocking laser blasts in ANH because he got the muscle memory down after the few failures or is it because he's opening himself up to letting the force control his actions?
No, it's because OBI WAN FUCKING KENOBI IS SITTING RIGHT THERE TEACHING HIM ABOUT THE FORCE AND HOW TO CHANNEL IT
And that is literally square one of his training, blocking a few blasts from a training droid
What about this stubborn, independent bitch makes you think she's got an incredibly willing mind ready to channel the Force instantaneously in a manner unprecedented before? It's not only ridiculous, it clashes with her character.
The OT had SEVERAL training sequences, and allusions therewith, making it very clear, that you needed training to use it
you're pretty annoying. Pretty much just nitpicking and snide responses. You aren't going to convince people Rey wasn't overpowered as fuck with respect to our other mains. She even gets everyone to love and trust her for some reason within hours of meeting them. Getting the Luke mission, why?
>>64500249 Yeah I'm the asshole when no one can talk about RotJ and has to keep bringing up Rey Rey Rey. It really makes it seem less like anyone wants to talk about what the force is and how you use it, and more like people need to shit on TFA.
>has potential >Obi Wan recruits him >gives him preliminary training >dies >become his little voice in his head >sends him off to Dagobah to train with Yoda >luke trains with Yoda for a while >after more training and experience, Luke is finally ready to channel the Force and face other experienced force users
that is the Force
that is RotJ
I don't know where you're getting your "it's le magical fairy dust shet you can just think about and use effectively"
>>64500365 >tries a mind trick out of desperation, because has obvs learned the legends of the Jedi and is aware she's probably force sensitive >these stormtroopers are probably even more weak minded than the Empires t b h >it happens to work for this reason
>use mind trick check >beat monster check >not in RotJ but awesome pilot check >beat the bad guy lightsaber user check >get your shit wrecked by the big bad has yet to be seen but probably won't happen >get shot NEGATIVE >fail to resist force mind read NEGATIVE
Jesus Fuck, one of the main characters is a Storm trooper who develops a conscience and one of the others is a pissed guy who's mad at him being a turncoat, the most personality I've ever seen from a Storm or Clonetrooper.
Nothing agrees with you, not even this shitty movie's inconsistency.
>>64500125 Except we have seen no evidence of arrogance, you're making shit up to compensate for shit writing. >inb4 s-sequels If this movie relies on sequels to make sense, then it's shit. There's a big difference between something like empire which is open ended, and TFA which just has massive hole and inconsistencies based on past movies and general story telling.
What would it take for you to admit a character was stronger than Luke? Because she's already be shown to be smarter than Luke, faster at learning about the force, more likeable to other characters than Luke, already has done more tricks with the force than Luke, already defeated the bad guy within moments of learning she can use the force, already resolved her personal shit. I like to hear just one quality that makes luke a better Jedi than her.
>>64500564 >Luke uses the dark side to beat Vader into submission Luke was already winning but didn't want to fight his Dad but then he poked around in his head and mentioned his sisterfu in a negative manner which triggered him. He didn't need emotion to win that fight.
>>64500608 All Obi-Wan says is "trust the Force" and things like that. And Yoda made him run around in some jungle and face his inner demons. Those aren't instructions, those are to give him a little nudge in the right direction so he can learn about the Force himself. Because that is what Luke needed. Rey isn't Luke, she doesn't have to go through the exact same thing as him.
>>64500428 What exactly does Rey learn at all though? On her own or being taugh. She already seems to know everything, and the few things she doesn't she picks up in literal minutes like mind control (yet still knows how it works on her own) flying the falcon... Etc
>Rey isn't Luke, she doesn't have to go through the exact same thing as him.
And that's why she's a shite character. For trashing all of the concepts of "master/apprentice" and learning the Force through careful training and accruing the mental strength and meditation necessary.
Of course she doesn't need to, she's a poor character that doesn't fit into the universe due to her super-Jedi nature.
Several months pass with his training with Yoda. Yoda taught him the basics of how to be one with the Force over that time, then while coming up with the plan to free Han Luke could've continued to refine his connection to the Force
It's not that fucking hard to understand >ANH Luke sees Obi Wan doing the jedi mind trick >begins his training >trains with Yoda >later on he's adept in the Force and can do the trick himself
Compare to Rey in TFA >Has no idea she was even force sensitive until halfway through the movie >Even though it's heavy implied she's Luke's daugther, that counts for fucking nothing because Luke was Anakin's son and he didn't immediately become a master at using the Force >Out of the blue Rey learns how to read people's minds, block off her own thoughts and then use the jedi mind trick >And then later on beats the shit out of Kylo Ren just by channeling the dark side, even though at that point her connection to the Force must have still been super weak
The thing about being able to block out her thoughts from kylo wouldn't have bothered me if there was an actual reasonable explanation for it. "Oh, when I'm lying and don't want to get caught I just start thinking about ship components and how to put stuff together so that nobody can read my true intentions"
But no, out of the blue she just magically has such a strong conviction that she's able to block out Kylo's mind rape even though she was in a conflicted position due to not knowing what happened to her friends and being at the mercy of the First Order
There's no explanation for her being such a good pilot, there's no explanation for every single character being infatuated with her after 5 minutes of meeting her, no explanation for her being able to use the Force so adeptly. Fucking nothing
>>64500759 would it have improved the character if nothing in the movie changed but they included minute long scene where obi wan's force ghost appears to her and says "use your feelings" while she was still on jakku?
>>64500621 >Except we have seen no evidence of arrogance >pulls the wrong fuse freeing monsters >sasses han solo about giving her a gun when she doesn't even remember to take the safety off and has to be corrected on her barrel discipline by han >constant 'no one needs to save me' attitude towards finn when in the end she's only saved because he launched a rescue mission
But I mean in general you're right, I'm speculating on her being tempted by the dark side. I'm doing that because the post I was responding to was talking about the next movies. I'm not saying her having to deal with the dark side personally excuses anything in VII, it's just what they could do with it.
Calm down, relax. You don't have to fit this into 'us vs them' 'who's side are you on' witch hunt nonsense. Not everyone talking about the force or what could happen have to be people that think Rey is without fault in how she's written.
Look I agree with everything you say about everyone liking her, being really smart and a good pilot is all too much and makes her a mary sue. I agree to all that, it's just that I wanna speculate on what they can do with her character or argue her force use isn't lore breaking because I have those ideas separate from my evaluation of her as a character and of the movie as a whole.
>I like to hear just one quality that makes luke a better Jedi than her. Luke faced his dark side and turned away from it, sparring Vader. According to Yoda that was to be his real Jedi test. Rey doesn't have anything on that. See the force isn't about powerlevel "who can lift the heaviest thing" shit. It's not about this dick measuring contest, it's about philosophy and personal control.
>>64500848 >no growth But she only learns about her powers because of her encounter with Kylo Ren. She doesn't start out with them. Would it really have been better if she had a scene with some wise Jedi sensei and she got a power up? Look, I agree that she's a little too Miss Perfect but you're blowing this way out of proportion.
>Character has no arc, never experiences any obstacles she must overcome through hardships or her own faliure >LOL who cares that she's awesome and can do everything it's just a movie dude xD
This is why TFA is such shit. There is no tension, because the main character can solve anything within minutes of encountering a problem. When she and Finn got on board the Falcon to escape, we'd know they'd be able to outmaneuver the TIE fighters and nothing would happen like them getting captured or crashing the ship
When the monsters are released and one of them grabs Finn, we know she'll be able to come up with some clever trick to free him. There was never any tension, it's just another pointless action scene. When she gets captured it's the first time you go "oh shit now what"
But then immediately she resists Kylo's mind torture and escapes on her own. Tension completely defused.
She has to end up fighting Kylo even though all the odds are against her. But once again she magically comes out on top and beats him, and then a Deus Ex Machina has to occur for the villain not to get completely destroyed by the hero
Same with the "oh no, the Starkiller is going to maybe be able to blow up the Resistance base". There is no tension. The story is written so that conveniently every problem is resolved within minutes so you're never engaged. You're mindlessly entertained by the action, but you never think "oh shit what is going to be the fate of the characters? Could any of them be in actual peril?".
>prequels set the standards that you have to have formal training and go to jedi school >Luke receives maybe like 1% more training than Rey, and his training was a joke compared to Jedi college >oh but Luke became a Jedi Master!
>>64501014 >This is why TFA is such shit. There is no tension, because the main character can solve anything within minutes of encountering a problem. When she and Finn got on board the Falcon to escape, we'd know they'd be able to outmaneuver the TIE fighters and nothing would happen like them getting captured or crashing the ship
yeah, this was totally unique to TFA. I felt so much tension when anakin jumped 300 stories onto a moving car or when leia and the gang were mowing down storm troopers in a new hope.
and enough with the kylo ren fight autism, he wasn't even trying to beat her.
>>64500891 >Rey doesn't have anything on that. She's already shown she has just as much control mentally and control of the force as Luke in RotJ by resisting kylos interrogation and offer to join him, and beating him in a duel the first time she's used a light saber. Shes shown she has mastered the force by the end of the film, you cant even say where she is lacking, in both ability and mentally, she has personal control in every fucking aspect possible. And this is after only just being told the force is real by Han
There isn't anywhere to go with her character. the only thing I could think of happening that snoke/kylos tries to tempt her to the dark side by promising they can bring her family back. However I guarantee that's not what will happen, Rey will remain a "good" strong woman and it will be more about her just getting even stronger and convincing kylo to join the good guys.
>See the force isn't about powerlevel "who can lift the heaviest thing" shit. It's not about this dick measuring contest, it's about philosophy and personal control. Knock it off with the condescending lectures, you're not saying anything new.
>b-but it doesn't matter that Luke trained with Yoda to build up the mental and physical strength and learn the precepts of the Force in order to become a Jedi (which he even isn't yet at the beginning of ROTJ according to Yoda), you just need to be born space jesus and belieeeeeve in yourself xD
It doesn't matter what the fuck the prequels established. The OT establishes that you need to learn how to feel the Force. You need to learn how to concentrate, to meditate, to create connections to all the living things around you. You need to feel the force flowing between everything, and then later use it to incorporate it to the physical things like the use of a lightsaber. You need to learn how to control your emotions, how to let go and be guided by the Force and be in unison with it. All of that is important
Rey gets fucking nothing of that in TFA. She magically already is an expert in everything. She can already feel the Force and control it to such a degree that she can pull off jedi tricks with ease. She never does anything to learn how the Force works, all that happens is a CGI midget orange tells her a butchered version of Yoda's speech and Bam! Rey magically feels the Force and meditates for a split second mid battle to channel her rage into fighting Kylo
It's not about how the Force works you dumb faggots. It's about how she has no progression as a character. You can literally replace the Force with like magic, or being able to control the Matrix or whatever. Take literally any protagonist from any story, give them a skillset that they need to develop in order to defeat the villain, and then let them experience growth throughout the story by experiencing hardships and learning from their failures
In TFA Rey is like a videogame character where she gains powers after a determined section in the game. "You have learned Jedi mindfuck! Use it to escape!"
>>64500643 >He spends a few months on Dagobah with Yoda Never happens. That's what I was calling fanfiction. Luke trains with Yoda in Empire, leaves to fight Vader, then doesn't see him again until Jedi.
>>64500660 Luke was not already winning. I mean he knocked Vader over once but Luke is still constantly moving backwards and Vader even destroys the catwalk he's on. It's actually hard to say because really Luke is trying to turn Vader more than fight him, he even shuts off his lightsaber a few times. The point is there's a sudden power burst that Luke uses to beat Vader, whether he needs it or not to win whatever. It's setting the precedent for force fueled power boosts.
>>64500671 Hey that's fine, I agree with both statements.
>>64500740 Maz tells Rey to let the light guide her. Rey freaks out because of the vision and tells her to fuck off with her force shit. So when she quiets herself and lets the force beat Kylo in a lightsaber fight, it's completing her poorly developed arc of wanting to stay on Jakku and rejecting the force moving to wanting to find Luke and use the force.
As for the mind trick she's heard stories about Jedi and Luke Skywalker, she was given extensive proof of what the force is capable of by Kylo Ren. Shit even Luke with all his Yoda training still really needed a big display of the force in Yoda lifting the x-wing to begin to realize what it was capable of. Yeah in the OT the mind trick is only done by jedi knights and used as a symbol of Luke's growing power, but I'd still rate it below laser bolt freezing and taking information out of someone's brain.
>>64501172 she didn't face the same situations as luke. vader was more powerful than kylo ren, who was shown to be grossly incompetent. how many times does it have to be said, during the lightsaber fight he was badly injured and was not trying to kill her.
>>64501172 >However I guarantee that's not what will happen, Rey will remain a "good" strong woman and it will be more about her just getting even stronger and convincing kylo to join the good guys. Just skip to the point next time and start with the agenda pushing so I can ignore you.
Kill yourself >mowing down storm troopers in a new hope. Tell me exactly when did that happen? I just remember Luke and Han took a couple of stormtroopers by surprise and shot them, then Luke and Leia got cornered and Luke devised a plan to escape, and then Han running away from a whole stormtrooper squad
every star wars movie has overpowered super heros and deus ex machinas. anakin winning the pod race, anakin blowing up the droid control ship, the only surprise was qui gonn getting killed by darth maul. there was less tension in those movies because we knew anakin was the chosen one and would definitely not die. yoda entering the colloseum with the clone troopers was a deus ex machina. obi wan could be seen as mary sue if you want to get down to it, we know he won't die, he's set up as a jedi monk and we know he turns into the obi wan in a new hope. he literally does nothing wrong the entire franchise.
You don't know that. No movie ever explicitly says "oh this time passed between these other things happening"
Besides that's a moot point. You're applying prequel tier logic to your retarded argument.
"hurr in my headcanon Luke only trained a few hours with Yoda and then fucked off and suddenly became a jedi master xD"
The point is that he fucking trained. He learned things from Yoda. Not only that, he grew as a character from everything that happened to him. He confronted Vader, he lost Han later and had to rescue him. All of these are things he learned from as pointed out in ROTJ when Luke goes back to Yoda
>anakin could fucking podrace
Who gives a shit about that? Are you seriously using the prequels to defend your fucking argument? What the fuck are you even trying to say? That it's ok for Rey to be a master pilot and that she can use the Force at Kylo's level without training because Anakin was a podracer? Are you retarded?
>are you buttcrying at her lack of development or that you don't understand space magic
>I don't actually understand the argument, I'll just deflect it to him being butthurt!
Great response. I explained to you how the Force works. But in the end the Force is just generic skillset for the movie's setting. Like I explained, she doesn't at any moment have to do anything to become skilled at whatever she needs to overcome the conflicts in the story. She just suddenly is when the plot demands it. She never fails at anything, she never learns anything, whenever she's in trouble she just magically learns a skill on the spot and comes out on top. She has no development
>>64501457 >I've heard you can play the piano with two hands or sing opera but that doesn't mean I can suddenly do it >comparing the force to a physical skill All you need to use the force, at least the light side, is to believe in it. If you don't believe what you're trying is possible, you will fail. Again, you don't practice mind trick on people 20 times a day to get better at it. The force is not this skill you practice like it's tennis.
>>64501538 >The point is that he fucking trained. He learned things from Yoda. How come the autists in this thread that keep spamming this don't ever think about what Yoda is teaching Luke or what the training actually is. It's not jedi practice like you practice the piano anon, it's not a physical skill.
>>64501538 You literally know nothing about these movies. Burn all of your Star Wars stuff.
The entire franchise is based on Mary Sues, cheesy stories, and extremely shallow development and an excuse to sell toys and show off special effects.
Luke got hilariously piss poor training. He's barely any more valid than Rey is pre-Bespin, if at all. You're one movie in and crying out of your ass because you don't even understand what you're watching
>>64501308 What the fuck are you on about, what agenda? You wanted to discuss what you think could happen in the sequels and I said what I'd like to happen and what I think will happen (based on what the director and company have stated their intentions being with actions and decisions so far).
Just fuck off if you're going to act like such a baby.
Again. Think before you post you dumbfuck. You're excusing TFA for having characters that never do anything wrong and has deus ex machinas because "t-the prequels did it! :^)"
Nobody ever talked about the prequels. The fact that you point out how the prequels did this stupid shit just goes to show how bad TFA is for doing all that
Listen I don't hate the movie. I enjoyed it a lot first time seeing it. It's entertaining. But nothing makes any sense at all, it's fucking retarded and none of the characters save maybe Kylo have any depth to them. The characters are likeable, but they are poorly written
Any other movie would've been bashed to hell and back, but suddenly because it's "muh Star Wars" you are supposed to look part all this and just accept it otherwise you're some "autistic nerd who can't have fun"
>>64501588 If it was as simple as "just believe" then why the fuck did everyone else struggle so much, even when in the prequels and there were Jedi everywhere for visible proof, people didn't magically just learn everthing in minutes because they believed.
It's always been more than that, like reaching nirvana in Buddhism, it's about being in tune with the world and which takes a long time to happen.
By having a random character just randomly come along and be strongly in tune with the force after just learning it actually exists cheapens it. It just falls back to who has the highest midi count and just decides "the force is really, I'll go start fucking shit up".
The thing about the force that drew people in in the originals was that you couldn't just pick it up, it was mysterious and took time to understand and master. Defending characters who go against this shows you really have no clue what made the force intriguing, or yoda great because he's obvious has years of wisdom, not 5 seconds of belief. It's not fucking Peter Pan and flying.
>>64501958 So you think Rey has zero arc? And you want me to take your opinion seriously? It's not a great one in concept and it's execution leaves a lot to be desired but pretending it's not that is laughable.
And what the fuck does that have to do with Yoda's training? I like how this thread is talking about the force and what's consistent with the OT then some pretentious filmfags come in with their 'character' bullshit like we don't all know that.
leia pulling out a blaster and fucking up 5 storm troopers and jumping into a trash compacter is poor writing since it wasn't established she had prior weapons training. luke knowing how to operate a mechanical zip tie and being confident as fuck for no reason after his parents died and blasting a bunch of storm troopers and not being shaken up about it is poor writing. han being an impeccable badass and having no flaws is poor writing. vader having no arc or depth besides being an evil guy is poor writing.
>>64502070 you're arguing with someone who thinks SW is supposed to be a good movie from an objective standpoint, rather than a vehicle to sell merchandise, entertain people, and show off special effects
they don't even understand what they're watching lmao
>>64502070 So because they didn't cry after shooting a faceless storm trooper than makes it badly written? And what do you mean Han didn't have any flaws, he clearly did (no loyalty, selfish, always negative, a lier...). He could shot a gun and fly his ship, that's about it.
The thing about the original character is they had reasonable strength but all had flaws and were far from perfect. Rey does everything amazingly and if it's her first time, becomes fantastic in minutes.
If you can't see the different then you're an idiot, seriously.
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