>>64486901 Wish Lucas would read this post. It's so true. Too bad the mainstream hipsters picked it as the boogeyman of movies.
Motivations people in Star Wars join the dark side, quality of writing:
>Anakin feels excluded from the council >feels like he doesn't get the respect he deserves >had an incredibly terrible life >has visions that Padme dies and the dark side has the power to keep her alive
>>64486940 >Wish Lucas would read this post. It's so true. Too bad the mainstream hipsters picked it as the boogeyman of movies. If you say you like teh prequels on a site like NeoGAF, you'll probably get banned or at least "le epic backfired" by 50 teenagers.
>>64486787 I don't care what Lucas did in the Seventies. Doesn't matter who it is, if you have unlimited money and no restraint to make three movies, and all three are shit-to-mediocre then that proves that you aren't a good director. Period.
>enslaved as a child and mistreated >had no dad >had visions of his mom in pain and then traveled to find her raped and beaten to death >developed a rash personality prone to anger and a jealous infatuated fixation with Padme >was ostracized and mistrusted by the Jedi Order and Council and never felt like he belonged or was respected >endured ultimate disrespect in not being promoted to masterhood with the defeat of Dooku and yet appointment to Council >new that Padme was going to die from his dreams and didn't want to revisit that sense of pain and failure as the purported "most gifted Jedi of all time" >watched as Mace Windu was about to enact martial law and kill Palpatine just as Sheev had said the Jedi were planning on taking over control of the Senate
>>64487189 I can't say when I ever thought a character in a movie ever actually had such good reasons and motives to do something bad. Although the saving Padme with magic powers was of course kinda cheap.
Literally no chance they can give Ren motivations why he joined the dark side half as good, though.
>>64487235 No, it's not. It's obvious you want to hate on the prequels just to hate on them, though. How about you visit some mainstream normalfag forum like NeoGAF or Reddit? Probably where you come from.
>>64487249 They probably won't even give him any motivations and we'll never know why he joined the dark side. It already makes zero sense he adores Vader since Luke told him he was actually a good guy.
>>64486572 The only way you can enjoy tfa is if you completely ignore the story, plot holes and bad acting. Literally just enjoy the lasers. I was critical of the prequels when they came out but tbqf family I love them all Anakin vs obi wan btfo anything disney will ever bring to me.
>>64487343 Literally no one cares. None of the characters has any background or motives. No one cares. 9 on IMDB anyway, retards like >>64487347 still shitting on the prequels. This is the world we live in.
>>64487382 I can't seriously believe people are posting shit like this unironically.
TFA is mediocre, but to actually defend this pice of shit, CGI ridden, terribly paced, horribly written lore destroying prequels is absurd. I can't believe people are so defensive of JJ's liberal shittyness that they'd defend the movies that made the world realize how shit George Lucas was as a director.
/tv/ turned into a contrarian subreddit dedicated to shitting into any well received movies, and that will turn against anyone that doesn't agree with your absurdly sad nitpicking, like Mr Plinkett.
>>64487390 The prequels are fucking awful you retarded piece of shit inbred monkey. TFA is dumb as fuck but at least it's a watchable and fun movie set in the original Star Wars universe. The prequels were fucking bad videogames in movie form.
Holy shit. I've done it. I've actually lived long enough to see people go so completely contrarian, that they will perform whatever mental gymnastics neccessary to defend something SO objectively bad that it defies logic.
No, friends. The chemistry between Anakin and Obiwan wasn't that good. It had potential, I'll give you that. Too bad in third, climatic movie, they spend so much fucking time apart that it doesn't matter.
The pacing is never good. Phantom Menace is bogged down by Trade disputes, Adventures on Tatooine, and Naboo Politics (Maul Duel is pretty sick though). Attack of the Clones never picks up traction because of the terribly executed romance between anakin and padme. And Revenge of the Sith, while seemingly fast paced, is just a bunch of shit that happens in a poor attempt to connect the prequels to A New Hope.
And as for Anakin's motivation? You provided a nice list, but that's not what story telling is. It's not a list of things. It has to be weaved together, and George Lucas was clearly lost on this. It could have been so much better, and so much more simple. Dead Mom? Check. Feelings for Padme? Cool. But everything else they tried to shoehorn in their was just weird. The whole thing about resenting the Jedi because they won't give him the rank of master, and Sheev's vague promise to protect his wife from dream hinted death. It's just not enough to go on to suddenly kill Mace, swear your allegiance to the Sith, and murder children. It could have been much, much better -- and if nothing else -- we desereved that from the prequels. If EVERYTHING else was shit, but they pulled of Anakin's descent in a satisfying way, we'd all be more forgiving.
Ways to improve it? I don't get paid MILLIONS to produce movies, but I'll try if someone wants me to. This post is too long already.
>>64487647 Dude what? Are you 16 or something? There are three distinct character arcs >Rey learning to let go of home >Finn finding his courage >Kylo struggling with the pull of light All of these characters have conflicts and resolutions, the plot is The First Order is fucking everyone's shit and The Republic is funding a proxy war via The Resistance to fight them. Protip: The word is spelled nostalgia
That is the most generic fucking shit I've ever read and its not even new within Star Wars itself. I'm not 16, that's exactly why it didn't hit me at all. It's a soulless, generic, committee-produced flick with hardly any exposition or weight and just a lot of mindless action and whimsical adventures.
>the new (read: shitty as fuck) Republic is funding a meme unit to let this terrorist Nazi organization build a mega Deathstar and blow them up before they do anything
Obi Wan Podrace Count Dooku Darth Maul Space battles Mace Windu Sheev Kamino Order 66 Sandpeople holocaust Watto the Jew Soundtrack Droidekas Droid army invading windows XP default wallpaper Darth Jar Jar ( the original plan )
They are more memorable, entertaining with better characters than TFA. Only Adam Driver was good.
>>64486572 >Phantom Menace Qui-Gon Jinn. Maul. Naboo (the underwater city and the palace). Duel of Fates. The ending fight. Podracing was dumb fun. In fact, "dumb fun" is a good description of the film.
>Attack of the Clones Anakin. Kenobi. The Clone Trooper twist (most people assumed the clones were bad guys). That arena fight sequence (from Anakin/Kenobi/Padme fighting it out on their own, to the big fight with all the Jedis, to the clone troopers joining in). Kenobi/Anakin vs Dooku.
>Revenge of the Sith Palpatine. Watching Anakin seduced by the Dark Side only to eventually succumb to it. The opening battle. Anakin killing Dooku because Palpatine said. The final duel with Anakin and Kenobi.
The prequels are pretty good films. Hating them is just a bunch of bunk.
Young Obiwan is cool. Sheev is just a meme, but he acts it out well enough. And I like Anakin, but I know his dialogue and scenes are mostly cringe worthy. Maul was neat for a fight scene or two.
TFA -- Poe and Finn are bro tier. BB8 is the most charasamtic fucking rolly ball in the universe. Kylo did a better job being Anakin, than anakin did. And Rey, Phasma, and Space Hitler were hit and miss, but still not cringe worthy.
>>64488005 >I..I.. I swear I'm not 16! Kek, a bit defensive are we? It's not about the ideas it's how they're executed which is something the prequels lack. Interesting ideas that are executed horribly, you don't get props for that. >>64488054 I know you meant to reply to me but if you can't realize the irony in your comment you should probably leave.
>>64489250 >Great settings If you consider shitty greenscreen cgi great settings sure. >Original stories Original =/= good >Deep characters Literally WHO! This is quite possibly the worst post on 4chan right now
>>64487690 You have good points on pacing, character chemistry, and pacing.
However, I think you're missing the fact that Anakin literally saw the flaws and hypocrisies of the Jedi in front of his eyes. You're right, he didn't turn to the dark side because of that list of things mentioned in>>64487189 ,he instead turned because he saw the Jedi betray him and his friends/love interests. He wanted to protect them(probably due to his nightmares of them suffering), and saw the Jedi as preventing him from doing so.
>>64489250 >>64489250 I think I agree with you, but I don't think TFA FAILS at setting, story and characters. I just think it's mediocre. While prequels certainly FAIL at a great many things, and don't even reach mediocrity.
Bullshit. The overarching story is fine. There are cool worlds, scenes, characters, etc. that are fleshed out and explained
the main thing holding it back are details, execution, overuse of CGI
I rewatched them recently and enjoyed them enough, only getting annoyed by shit like Jar Jar, Anakin's acting in AotC, etc.
You are implying Disney did their job with TFA. They did not. An enormous, rich up to their balls, creative production house rehashed Episodes 4-6 with shiny new tech, a muddled and hamfisted story, and shipped it out as a bona fide new sequel. It will always have the name "VII" next to it. That's criminal to me.
>>64489454 >If you consider shitty greenscreen cgi great settings sure. Every planet that they visit in the prequels, even in episode 1 alone, each have fleshed out personalities different form other planets. Different unique arcitechure, different forms of government, different species.
Just because the "shitty greenscreen cgi" is the only technology available at the time of filming they could use to show these grand setting while remaining in budget, does not make the settings bad. The cgi is pretty good for the time desu.
>Original =/= good Its still better than A New Hope 2.0
>Literally WHO! This is quite possibly the worst post on 4chan right now The relationship between Anakin and Obi-wan is an incredibly deep one ruined by cheesy dialogue.
Just like the relationship between Anakin and Padme is a great demonstration of Anakins flaws as a character ruined by cheesy dialougue.
>>64487249 >wanting the motivation anakin turning evil or darth vader turning good it doesnt matter why, it just happened. asking for explanations to such simple concepts is exposing yourself to disapointement.kylo turned evil because training was hard,daddy couldnt reach him and snoke took advantage from it.simple as that.
>>64489834 But see, what you're failing to realize is that the prequels were SO bad, that Disney had to play it "safe".
They were that bad dude, they were. How old are you? I'm 30. So, old enough to remember the HYPE around Phantom Menace. Man, people were fucking excited. NEW STAR WARS? DARTH MAUL, FUCK YEAH! OMG DUEL OF THE FATES. OMG STAR WARS MUSIC VIDEO ON TRL (no lie... http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xn7ldo_star-wars-episode-1-the-phantom-menace-duel-of-the-fates-music-video_shortfilms)
We all wanted to like the film. But it was bad. And even as a teenager, I was like, "Shit, these movies are bad."
So when Episode VII and all these movies were announced, what did level headed consumers like me do? "OH COOL STAR WARS!.... wait... wait. Oh, fuck. Please, don't be shit. Is it shit? Better not be shit. Fuck its gonna be shit."
They had to tell a conventional story just to get the fanbase to not revolt. Could the franchise survive another cluster fuck? Maybe, it is star wars after all.
I do hope the next movie takes more risks with its story telling now that is has been established, "No folks, these are going to be better than the prequels, don't worry"
>>64489885 Why the fuck didn't they use more practical effects that look better, age better and in general are a great tool that CGI should compliment. Don't ever try and defend it again.
>Still better than A New Hope 2.0 Lmao not at all, Star Wars is Good vs Evil not squabbling about trade routes and disputes, at least the motivations are clear in TFA.
>Relationship between Anakin and Obi Wan is incredibly deep lol no, stopped reading there, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. You're essentially saying the things the characters do and say don't matter because you have some weird headcanon that says otherwise. Anakin and Obi Wan literally never do any bro things and just always seem angry or annoyed at each other.
>>64490096 >Get a job sometime So you're saying if you were a boss and you had to choose between a go kart that doesn't work and one that does work, you'd go for the one that doesn't work? You're a fucking idiot
Disney had the laundry list of issues to avoid, as well as an enormous creative team. I can't believe you're making excuses for a multi-billion dollar company that was willing to take a risk on some fucking mickey mouse ass shit like "John Carter" and then you're going to give it an excuse for being completely lazy and complacent on Star Wars. What kind of fucking fan can stand that? They are literally marvelizing this series before our eyes and you can't help but sit there, clap, cry, and extol them for "not being the prequels at least." I'm going to be honest, I can enjoy casual movies but in the context of this series, their investment, what they could have done, it's pretty sickening. And it's sickening to see so many people giving them high marks and a pat on the back for it. You think they're going to take risks now? Oh, you bet they won't. Good job.
>engineer >shit i build doesn't work >car stalls every 30 minutes, I'm late to work every day, I missed my son's birth >bridge collapses, kills hundreds, my son just died >dam crumbles, leaving hundreds homeless, and it upheaves my son's grave >my son, whose birth i missed, who died on a bridge collapse, has his corpse floating around in the flooded city I doomed. >at least I'm more creative than the other engineers
>>64490393 Except, the movie was still good. I don't care that I can predict the story points to 99% accuracy. I can predict all story points in every movie to 99% accuracy. I know story structure. I read.
Except the danish girl. I did not predict everything in that fucking movie.
Nah, nah, that's just hysterical rambling, let me set you right.
>this Kart can go faster >but less reliably, and only for a short bit of time >for now, people can use this Kart to go faster over short distances >it's not the exact product I wanted, but it is usable regardless
>>64490183 >Star Wars is Good vs Evil not squabbling about trade routes and disputes Star Wars is a kids movie. At the end of the day, going to "a long time ago in a galaxy far far away" and discovering new places, new conflicts, and new characters, is just as much a part of star wars as the battle between good and evil. TFA fails to have any sense of discovery whatsoever by offering a rehashed plot with cliche, depthless characters. Its like making a BLT without lettuce.
Anakins relationship with padme exists to show that Anakin needs someone in his life to ground him to reality. As soon as his mother isn't there to be the driving motivation for everything he does, he immediately falls in love with another motherly figure. Notice how all Anakin talks about on tatooine is freeing his mother. Anakin realizes that without anybody to love, he would have no reason to live. Sheev takes advantage of this, and threatens Anakin with the thought that he might lose padme. When Anakin finally does lose padme, he loses a part of himself. He becomes an empty shell of his former self until he finds someone else that he can life his life for, his own son.
The problem is that shitty dialougue ruins this relationship for retards like you that can't look any deeper than the hottest new meme.
>Are you an angel? >i don't like sand >i killed them, i killed them all
The prequels are filled with examples of bad dialogue ruining the deeper meaning of the story.
Qui-Gon Jinn, Podracers, Padmes fine ass(M'lady), The tale of Darth Plagueis the Wise, Sexy handmaidens(M' ladies), Saruman, Sheev, the love and loss of Jedi bros, personal energy shield noises, the one purple lightsaber to rule them all, Aayla Securas fine ass(M'blue tentacle lady), Chewbar.
>>64490613 So you're working for an incompetent boss who doesn't care about the product as long as it goes faster for any period of time? I think you can finally see where your analogy falls apart. Your analogy also implies that there are parts of the prequels that are better than the OT and you know that just ain't true
>>64490731 >Implying there is a deeper meaning other than your head canon. Unfortunately you can't base your facts off what you think was meant to happen and can only make informed decisions based on what the movies actually showed us. Padme was only there because Anakin needed to have a love interest not because he was desperate for a mother figure
I literally do not see how this is hard to understand. I deliberately chose a very basic example with a simple specification in order to make it easy to follow when I could have been far more complicated.
The boss asked for one thing: make this Kart (that I already have, it's a perfectly fine Kart) go faster.
That's it. I want a different Kart.
Engineer 1 TRIES to fulfill the spec. He gets somewhere with it, a faster Kart, but it is less reliable than the old one. He did his job in attempting, earned his paycheck, and while the Kart has its faults and isn't a total solution it can be used in certain cases and expanded upon.
Engineer 2 was a lazy fuck who took all of his bosses money and pushed out basically the same thing with a new paint job.
>>64486572 Sheev Portman's midriff and those costumes and makeup she wore The music Coruscant (I'm sorry okay, I just have a massive boner for the futuristic cities) The noises of that lizard Obi rode This qt
You don't have a valid criticism. It's as close as a simple analogy can get. Of course there are minutiae that leave something left to be desired but, again, a simple analogy, it's supposed to be basic.
I paid more money, and spent more time eagerly waiting, for the same thing. A same thing that Disney marketed as a new thing. I don't consider that more forgivable than an honest attempt at a new thing that goes awry.
PT Pros: >Creativity/Ideas >Design(s) >Photography >Style >Atmosphere >OST/sound design >Sheev >spess batles >brand new shiny Darth Vader armor >lots and lots of shit pulled from EU(yup) into P >gave life to more neat EU vidya and books Cons: >bad pacing/timing/synchonisation >dialogue is too simple and yet they dwell on those simple lines letting them sink in >needless elaboration of some things >Jango/Boba Fett are major parts of OT >needless cartoonishness combined with gritty parts >doesn't really get OT very well
TFA Pros: >robot is a qt >Harrison Ford acting for once Cons: >everything else
What surprised me about the critical reaction towards this movie is that the same people that passionately hate Transformers series - liked TFA even tho, after seeing this movie, i would probably think it is directed by Michael Bay if i didn't know for a fact that this is Jar Jar's movie. Its Bay's style and action and retarded memetization of all shit conjoint.
>>64486572 They expanded on a fantasy universe that the OT only scratched the surface of. Even with the bad decisions, the prequels allowed for more creativity that the originals lacked the ability to portray, and the sequels lack the balls to take any creative risks.
>>64491323 >Earned his paycheck for a kart that doesn't work Yeah not, your analogy is shit. Lets assume the boss is the audience, they already have a very fast and well built kart. George Lucas decides to try and make a better kart than the first one (OT) and ends up creating what is essentially one of those vans that suicide bombers use to deliver a large payload. Pretty spectacular but for all the wrong reasons. JJ Abrams comes in and we're reeling from the suicide van so he decides to go back to the simpler design that the boss likes with a few tweaks and enhancements with lots of room for custom upgrades.
>>64491608 But it's a movie with a clear set of goals, those goals are fulfilled with good characters, a decent script and good acting. I'm really sorry that your argument had to resort to "nuh uh ur the headcanon" but you've already dug yourself a hole.
>>64492095 I am not the guy you are responding to but... >OT) and ends up creating what is essentially one of those vans that suicide bombers use to deliver a large payload More like a like a brand new sport car that looks really cool and drive kinda fast but has a lot of plastic in it and pointless gimmicks. Seats are not very well positioned. >JJ Abrams comes in and we're reeling from the suicide van so he decides to go back to the simpler design that the boss likes with a few tweaks and enhancements with lots of room for custom upgrades. And in this case its more like he made like 75% of all the car parts, threw them into a bag and shipped it to customers. So customers thought REALLY hard to construct this car into a single thing only to realize that a lots of parts are reused from other cars, some parts don't even fit with the rest of the car, and you can't really drive it since it has neither engine nor fuel. And dealer said that if you pay double we are promising that the car you bought MIGHT actually be drivable.
>>64492158 the goals of TFA are to draw in as many fans as possible.
It does this by pandering to nostalgiafags, and having a character to represent as many different demographics of people as possible. Its nothing more than a commercial for the next 12 star wars movies.
sorry to bring /v/ into this, but this movie is what everyone didn't want Star Wars Battlefront to be, which was a generic fps game with a star wars skin. This is nothing more than generic hollywood drivel we have been getting every year since Iron Man 1 came out, just with a Star Wars skin on top.
>>64492326 That's not a script sorry, that's the motivation. Adds an air of mystery. What wrong with that? Are you that guy that was in the thread before who thought Luke should've showed up at Starkiller Base? >>64492336 >Suicide van Yes a van filled with explosives that dune coons drive into crowds of people. I'm sorry that you thought your analogy was in anyway good. >>64492354 >Implying the prequels look good Anyone who thinks the prequels are better than TFA are underage and that's a fact. Think it's a coincidence all this prequel defending is happening when /v/ has been crossing over here?
He already cashed his check from Disney and cut his ties moron
people don't know a good thing til its gone and now that all of the creative energy of SW is gone we're left with this soulless husk of a franchise that's going to get pimped out like Marvel on a yearly basis
>>64486572 They were better than the original trilogy, if they came out first everyone would agree with me.
I mean how are you supposed to enjoy a movie when you know everything beforehand. Anakin(kind of) survives Obi Wan survives Yoda survives Sheev survives Padme is going to survive long enough to give birth to Luke and Leia 3CPO and R2D2 will ''survive''.
Everyone who gets in the way of one of this characters is guaranteed to die.
Probably the most horribly cast movies I've seen. There's Hayden for starters. And then all the minimum wage minor characters. The main baddie from the first movie was played by a stunt guy. I can't think if more than 3 well cast characters who weren't already in the OT
And don't say Dooku, Lee is a meme actor through and through
I was reading the visual dictionaries the other day and I really appreciate all the lore it added to the saga. They're not good movies, but I appreciate a good amount of what they brought to the table if that makes any sense.
>>64486572 Pod Racing Qui gon Ewan Mcgregor as Obi wan Darth Maul Clone design Jango Fett Geonosis battle Sheev Grievous Clone wars cartoon tv show Good videogames Mustafar battle order 66 Awesome soundtrack
You see, there's your problem. "Fans" of genre fiction almost always have exceptionally poor critical thinking abilities, not to mention taste. They're so wrapped up in "muh lore" that they are incapable of paying attention to what's delivered on screen.
Nobody fucking cares how much the prequels added to the Star Wars universe you fucking nerd. They're still shit movies.
>>64486572 I really enjoy the music, I dare say a lot of it is better then the original trilogy and miles ahead of what Force Awakens had for music. I also really love The Clone Wars CGI show, it was really good and I use it to substitute for the prequel trilogy. The issue with the Prequels is it was really not a story that needed to be told or could be told in only 3 films. Wish all of the prequel story was contained into a show but oh well.
This guy. Say what you want, but Ian McDiarmid put 120% into playing Sidious no fucking holds barred. He was more into his character than anyone else in the Star Wars movies ever was (maybe even to a fault).
The opera scene added so much mystery to the Sith; even more so when you consider that the entire story could've been a lie because...well, Sith.
>>64490026 This doesn't work for me because we know too much about Kylo already.
We didn't need Vader's or Sheev's or Dooku's or Snoke's motivations because everything about those characters is a mystery. We already know he was raised by Leia, Han and Luke, three light side heroes, and idolizes Vader, who turned good and defeated the Empire at the end and that he "feels the pull of the light". I find it hard to believe Leia, Han and Luke could raise a kid to be so rotten, and I honestly can't believe Luke would keep his father's redemption a secret. And why would he turn in the first place if his natural inclination was toward the light? What little we know about Kylo doesn't really support him turning to the dark side, so it creates a dissonance at least to me.
>stupid >whiney >didn't bother bothering to free his mother from slavery for over a decade >was a creepy as fuck with Padme >was tricked into destroying everything because in a fictional reality where severed limbs can easily be fixed, women apparently die in birth >proved consistently he wasn't ready to be appointed to the council, proved that the council was right by acting like a self-important cunt >watched as Mace Windu was confronting the dude who was unambiguously a sith lord, killed him because he was stupid and easily tricked
No motivations, just stupid emotional whiny faggery
The way it formed a chiastic structure in conjunction with the original trilogy, and reinforced that through calculated inversions and allusions narratively, thematically and even compositionally. For all his failings, Lucas has always had an incredibly strong grasp of filmmaking language and has proven himself a truly gifted storyteller, despite his utter inability to write consistent dialogue.
Also, Ewan McGregor is really good in all three of them.
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