What was the point of Qui-Gon's character? Couldn't they have just replaced him with a slightly older Obi-Wan?
Obi wan needed a mentor to show where his thought processes and training methods come from. It also gave him some character development when his mentor gets killed, so it parallels Lukes situation in ANH.
What was the point of these three? They accomplished nothing of value aside from Maul killing another pointless character.
what does advice bear have to say today?
Qui-Gon is supposed to be a grey Jedi who strays from traditional light side discipline and doesn't have the full trust of the Jedi council. This is best portrayed in the Jedi Apprentice series of novels, where Obi-wan is reluctant to train with Qui-gon due to their differing philosophies.
Qui-gon would be way more baller as a character if this information was better conveyed in TPM itself. As it stands, the only hints we get are his willingness to cheat Boss Nass out of the Bongo and his abuse of the Force to screw Watto over. Unfortunately, since we have no moral pillar to compare Qui-gon against, we're left with the impression that all Jedi are as morally grey as he is, rather than that he is the exception - which was the intention.
This is the biggest lost opportunity, imo. Just having Yoda as the Jedi master who trained Obi-wan would have been both cooler than what we got, and better for continuity.
Again, everyone already knows this but TPM needed to decide who its main characters were. Obi-Wan sits around doing nothing for the vast majority of the film, despite having such an important part in the next two. Qui-Gon was a bad character idea for the script
Maul: They needed a lightsaber fight in the first movie. He could have been substituted by Dooku with minimal effort.
Dooku: They needed a lightsaber fight in the second movie. He could have been substituted by Darth Maul with minimal effort.
Grevious: They needed a cool villain for the cartoon series. For some reason (I suppose kids liked him) they decided to include it in the movies. I suppose Obi Wan needed to win a "relevant" fight after being rekt'd by Dooku at the start of the movie.
>slightly older Obi-Wan
Did you miss the entire point that Obi-Wan was unfit to be Anakin's master? That was Qui-Gon's job. When Obi-Wan says I failed you, he wasn't being dramatic he was being admitting that he wasn't the man Qui-Gon wanted him to be.
>not getting promoted to master after beating Dooku
Not even that. Look at all the achievements he made within TCW. Then he kills Dooku and they tell him to fuck off and spy on the chancellor.
Would Qui-Gon had taken Dooku's offer?
qui gon wouldve left the jedi long before that. they were blinded by their dumb faith and just excused their stupidity by saying "the force did it". the jedi order was all kinds of retarded, which is why anakin was so easily turned. i know they dont go into much detail in the movie but the cartoon does
Although he's superficially a loose canon - willing to lie, cheat, and do whatever else it takes 'to get results' - Quigon is actually less imaginative than the other Jedi, keeping his head down with the assumption that everything will work out in the end. He just goes from one objective to the next, not concerned with any bigger picture. This makes him both bold and foolish.
In addition, Quigon is (like most of the Republic heroes) quite racist - referring to Watto condescendingly as 'my blue friend', calling the Nemoidians cowardly, and constantly insulting JarJar. This is part-and-parcel with his singlemindedness. When Anakin talks about his dream of freeing the slaves, Quigon uses this as evidence of his 'Chosen One' status - as if checking it off a list:
QUIGON: You should be proud of your son. He gives without any thought of reward. ... He has special powers. ... He can see things before they happen. That's why he appears to have such quick reflexes. It is a Jedi trait.
The dialogue with Shmi makes it fairly clear that Quigon sees Anakin's inherent generosity as a byproduct of his superpowers, and not the other way around. To Quigon, the ultimate mission of 'finding the Chosen One' and strengthening the Jedi Order trumps actually being good.
Qui Gon is fine in concept, though he really should have been guiding Obi Wan more, having Obi Wan be more of a student than he appeared.
The problem with TPM is that Anakon really should have been older. At least in his mid to late teens.
Qui-Gon is the Jedi who learns the immortality trick. Darth Plagueis is the Sith who learns the immortality trick. That is the point of Qui-Gon's character:
222 INT. POLIS MASSA-OBSERVATION DOME-NIGHT
On the isolated asteroid of Polis Massa, YODA meditates.
YODA: Failed to stop the Sith Lord, I have. Still much to learn, there is ...
QUI -GON: (V.O.) Patience. You will have time. I did not. When I became one with the Force I made a great discovery. With my training, you will be able to merge with the Force at will. Your physical self will fade away, but you will still retain your consciousness. You will become more powerful than any Sith.
YODA: Eternal consciousness.
QUI-GON: (V.O.) The ability to defy oblivion can be achieved, but only for oneself. It was accomplished by a Shaman of the Whills. It is a state acquired through compassion, not greed.
YODA: . . . to become one with the Force, and influence still have . . . A power greater than all, it is.
QUI-GON: (V.O.) You will learn to let go of everything. No attachment, no thought of self. No physical self.
YODA: A great Jedi Master, you have become, Qui-Gon Jinn. Your apprentice I gratefully become.
In the OT we are told, sparkly eyed, of the legend of the Jedi Order. The PT should have kicked of with splendiferous, honourable exemplars of the Order, and then introduced Qui Gon.
He basically cannibalized Obi-Wan's character. He was added to the script in a late draft and basically took Kenobi's entire role in the process, leaving Obi-Wan nothing to do but sit around and complain for most of the movie. Basically, he's the kind of thing that should appear in a first draft and be removed in editing so focus can be given to the leads, not added in revision. He's the doomed mentor, yet he steals the protagonist's slot because Lucas gave him too much to do and Kenobi too little. Things like meeting JarJar (if he needs to be there), to convincing the queen to leave the planet, to discovering Anakin, all that should have been Kenobi's to do.
The thing is, his death came far too late, and he'd taken far too much agency from Kenobi until that point to make it work properly. When Obi-Wan died in IV, it was the end of the second act, so Luke had room to come into his own before the film ended, and he'd had plenty to do up until that point anyhow. Ben himself barely gets two short scenes before the film ends. If he had to be there at all (and I think the film could easily be scripted entirely without him. I think it's questionable as to whether Kenobi needs a mentor character at all.), he should have died on Tatooine, if not earlier still.
Your question is too narrow. TPM was an entirely pointless movie.
Retool AotC a bit. Make Anakin a normal young padwan who's got his first big gig protecting a qt princess. That's episode I. From there, Lucas would have enough time to tell the story he wanted in three movies.
>Retool AotC a bit. Make Anakin a normal young padwan who's got his first big gig protecting a qt princess. That's episode I. From there, Lucas would have enough time to tell the story he wanted in three movies.
I've thought that a lot myself. This is why it's so important to have a good story editor, someone who can cut to the chase and bring out the story the writer is really trying to tell.
He is the failed mentor who went against the Council's advice and trained a boy who evetually wiped out the Jedi.
He thought he knew better than everyone else. That hubris could be seen as a step towards the dark side.
Yoda remembers all this later and is rightfully dubious that training Vader's son is a good idea.
It was so that you could see that the jedi are a bunch of close minded shitfucks. He was a rogue and he was a rebel within the order. He had no respect for the establishment and their stupid rules. You're supposed to see that their dumb faggot rules are part of the thing that turned sweet little happy anakin into vader.