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Japan; Okinawa / Kyoto; Tattoos
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You are currently reading a thread in /trv/ - Travel

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I'm going to Tokyo this summer (July 14th), along with 2 of my friends, for 2.5 weeks. The hotel we're staying at is extremely close to both Akihabara and Ueno. For somewhere halfway through our trip, we're planning on either:

>Purchasing cheap plane tickets to fly from Narita to Okinawa and book a hotel to stay there for 1, maybe 2, days.
>They're still very uncertain about this, but I'd really like to go there and visit a beach if possible and if the weather allows it.

Or:

>Purchasing a 1 or 2 week rail pass and visit Kyoto, and possibly some other places that are a little further away, as well as lowering the cost of every other train ride.
>Although I'd enjoy this option too, it's most likely going to be one or the other, so we'll have to pick.

If there's anybody here that has ever been to Okinawa (and maybe Kyoto too), I'd really like to hear all about it. Is it worth flying all the way over there from Tokyo (and miss out on Kyoto because of it)? Are the beaches difficult to travel to from the airport in Naha and what beach is the nearest? Are there any other interesting things to do near this beach, or near Naha? What do Okinawan citzens think of foreigners? It might not actually be as interesting as I want it to be, but the thought of a short round-trip flight during a vacation in Japan is already enough to get me excited, I guess.
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>>854201
cont.

Aside from all this, my friends are really interested in onsen and we might end up visiting a beach as well. However, I have a tattoo on my chest and I've heard and read that people who have a tattoo aren't allowed to visit any onsen and my friend told me that they're banned from most beaches too. Does anybody have any experience with this themselves or have you seen people with tattoos in these places? Do you know any onsen near Tokyo where they don't mind people having a tattoo? Is it acceptable to at least cover mine with a large waterproof band-aid, if it really is such a big deal? If you're wondering, it's not a big, scary, Yakuza-like tattoo or anything. It's a black heart on my chest, but its length is about 2 inches, so it does kinda stand out.

I understand that most of m questions might be a bit too specific, but it's just what I'd really like to be informed about right now. If you know any other/better places we could visit or have some good tips in general, don't hesitate to tell me all about it. I'd happily look into it. Me and my friends should really start planning some stuff ahead of time.

I'll make sure to read every post [spoiler]if any[/spoiler] in this thread. Thanks in advance, /trv/.
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>>854201
Do the Kyoto/rail pass thing, more bang for your buck. Okinawa's beaches are nothing amazing and only really worth visiting in the colder months. For your first time go with kyoto, much more to see and do.
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>>854201
Prepare to sweat like a pig OP, summer in Japan (Kyoto in particular) is terribly humid. Going to Okinawa for 1 or 2 days sounds like something of a waste. The beaches aren't amazing, as >>854226 said, but there are other nice stuff to see (and eat!) around the island. You should stay at least 4-5 days if you've gone though the hassle to go there. No trains on Okinawa though, better learn how to ride a buss, rent a car or grab a cab whenever you want to go somewhere.

I'd recommend Kyoto though, fucking love that city. So much to see, temples, nature, temples in nature and well, temples. (Really though it's great.) And also close to Osaka, Nara and Kobe that's also worth a visit.

From what I understand, all bath houses and onsens ban all tattoos, no matter how small. They're supposedly pretty strict about it. Don't know about beaches though, I don't think it would be a problem there.
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Not OP, but would it be wise to use 2 days of 23 to climb Mount Fuji and see the sunset?
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>>854609
yes, but get in shape or you will be hurting for a couple days afterword and it will make things unpleasent.
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>>854201
tattoo thing varies, beaches are alright to show off tattoos pretty much. Only the scumiest of public onsens will not mind your tattoos and you wouldnt want to go there anyway
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If you're really worried about your tattoo thing go to a ryokan with private baths with your rooms. It might be pricey but it's a magical experiment anyhow.
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>>854617
I think that's probably a bit late seeing as I'm going late July, and I'm overweight.

>will be hurting
Isn't it just the general soreness you get from working out hard as well?
I don't really mind that.
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>>854203
>It's a black heart on my chest

lel that's so fucking gay
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>>854226
is this just Naha though? I booked tickets for five days on Ishigaki towards the end of September and I was really looking forward to chilling/swimming on the beach ;__;
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>>854226
>and only really worth visiting in the colder months.
Thanks for your input, but I don't really understand this last part. Why would I want to visit a beach when it's cold?

The general idea behind it was "going to the beach for a day or two" because I won't be going to Spain, or any similar country, this year, and will be missing out on beach-fun. We'd obviously hang around in a town near the beach at night as well. I guess the no trains part might be troublesome for us.

>>854535
I don't really mind humidity. And, well, I guess we're going to Kyoto then, even though I'm not extremely interested in temples myself. We wanted to go to Kobe too, just to try out their beef.

>>854618
I've read many different posts about tattoo acceptance in onsens. I guess the general consensus is that you could just go in without telling them about your tattoo but you risk the chance of them telling you to leave, possibly in an angry manner. I guess I'll just go with the waterproof band-aid plan and hope it'll work out. That, or a private room like >>854620 suggested, because I don't have much choice.

>>854636
I like it
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>>854659
Never been to Okinawa but Japan's bus is pretty easy. You enter, push a button, a number come out, see the monitor and pay according to your number.

Knowing the schedule and route though is a pain, too bad there's no Hyperdia for buses.
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>>854535
Coming from the Netherlands it's not really a problem as the weather is a 100% the same during these periods of time, when comparing my own home town to Tokyo.
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>>854661
Yeah, not knowing the route would be the main issue there, especially because none of us actually speaks Japanese.
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>>854641
>I was really looking forward to chilling/swimming on the beach ;__;
Why even bother visiting Japan if you want to lay on the beach and do nothing? You really ought to visit another country for that matter. Thailand, Bahamas or something.
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>>854665
>Netherlands
>hot and humid
wut
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>>854809
it's not my whole itinerary of course. it's five days out of 3+ weeks. And of course I won't laze around the beach for the whole five days, since I already got some cool places down that I want to visit. But relaxing on the beach for a day or so would be a nice extra
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>>854829
>But relaxing on the beach for a day or so would be a nice extra

If all you want to do is see a typical Japanese beach, why not go to one closer to Tokyo? There's a string of beach towns from Zushi through to Enoshima, and they're all really crowded during the summertime. You could take the train from Tokyo to Kamakura -- which is definitely worth staying in for 2 or 3 days -- and then hit the Kamakura beach (lots of restaurants and beach bars) whenever you want. Unless you want to see tropical waters, IMHO Kamakura is a better/easier/quicker choice than Okinawa.
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>>854840
well I already booked my flights, so I am going there anyways. But thanks, might check out the Beaches around Kamakura as well (going there anyways)
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>>854854

OK, enjoy Okinawa, I guess. I've never been, so I can't give you any advice except to be careful around drunken military types.
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>>854854
>should I go to Okinawa or not, /trv/?
>i'm going to Okinawa despite all your advice, thanks

Anyway, here's some advice I got from a japanese dude regarding Okinawa; Don't flaunt your foreignness too much, since they can be a bit racist because of all the military rapes.
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>>854840
Sounds cool, thanks for the tip.
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>>854201
Hey OP, I live in Japan, been to kyoto a few times and okinawa in winter. The comment about visiting okinawa in the colder months is because okinawa is warm, so you can enjoy the warmer weather then.

If you've already booked your tickets for okinawa, then ok, but i'd personally recommend kyoto. you're coming all this way to japan, go to the most japanese place here.

Getting to the beach from Naha airport isnt too bad, the island isnt huge and the coast is within 10 minutes if some monorail stations. Do your research first, or ask the people in your hostel what they recommend. Beaches on the main island are nice but most people who go for realxing holidays there visit ishigaki or other smaller islands. the main island is kind of so-so compared to the proper tropical small islands (but still nice).

It's gonna be suuuper humid though. Prepare to sweat 24/7.
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>>854863

Not a problem, glad to help. Kamakura is a great place to go anyway, but surprisingly most tourists don't ever make it to the beach. It's a completely different atmosphere down there, especially at night (the older parts of Kamakura are dead at night; the Japanese think too many ghosts are walking around). If you go, best to start in Kamakura as it's kind of the easiest to get to by train. Zushi is nice, too, but tends to be more rich/upmarket. If you want to see the "real" face of Japan's youth go to the beaches around Enoshima -- punks, juvenile delinquents, bros, and the like. There was a big documentary on TV the other day complaining about them. By US/European standards they're nothing, but by Japanese standards they're a national scandal. Plus, they leave lots of litter around!
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>>854867
>Japanese ghost town
Sold.

As for the litter, I am from Marseille so I can safely say glorious nihon is small time in that respect.

Seriously though, I put Kamakura on my to-do list, thanks.
Plus apparently it's 1-2 hours away from Tokyo, this'll make a nice day trip.
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>>854869

Yep, it's a nice day trip to be sure... but if you stick around in the evening, the beachside scene is quite interesting. The old town is quite major in Japanese history, of course, hence a great number of people were killed there in various battles, plots, etc., and so of course they're all creeping around at night to terrify the locals. There are some interesting hikes you can take in the hills in/surrounding the city, and plenty of interesting things to see. Even if you just hit the major temples/gardens you can easily spend a day there. As for the litter, yes, everything is relative, but you'd be surprised how much trash there is on Japanese beaches/the shoreline where nobody is paid (or volunteers) to pick it up.
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>>854862
I'm not OP so I was never asking whether to go or not. I just wondered whether the beaches are really that bad.

About the racism: is it just towards Americans though? Since I am from a (rather) small European country, which technically didn't even exist during WW2.
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>>854877
I don't think the 'natives' know the difference between an American and a European mate.
I'm just saying; be careful not to tread anyone over the toes.
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>>854877
It's against foreigners in general. People in Okinawa don't distinguish between Americans and French, for example (speaking from experience).
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>>854883
>>854884
oh okay I see thanks. If asked, I'll just clarify that it's actually in Europe and maybe the country where Mozart came from or something. Could make it easier to understand I guess
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>>854888
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FYuYkPgDkk&feature=kp
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>>854893
>WHITTU PIGGU GO HOME

also /int/
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>>854893
those poor aussie backpackers lol
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>>854899

It's like

"fuck the chinese! kick them all out!"

HEY THERE'S SOME WHITE FOREIGNERS
WE HATE THEM TOO

"white pig-gu go home!"
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Are there decent beaches near Osaka? I'll stay in Kansai for a while in June
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>>854934
>Are there decent beaches near Osaka?

Suma Beach, also Shirahama in Wakayama prefecture.

>>854877
>I am from a (rather) small European country, which technically didn't even exist during WW2.

The racism has nothing to do with the war. It's based on the really poor conduct of the US military on Okinawa, which is exacerbated by the fact that a lot of the Okinawans want the military out.

>>854888
>If asked, I'll just clarify that it's actually in Europe

LOL, anyone who hates foreigners isn't going to ask you anything -- they don't care where you're from. Okinawa is a conquered kingdom and many Okinawans still resent all foreigners because of that (and "all foreigners" definitely includes Japanese).
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>>854893
Is this how foreigners are treated even in big cities like Tokyo? What about asian foreigners? Is there any hope of intergrating into their society if you aren't 100% japanese?
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>>855087

>Is this how foreigners are treated even in big cities like Tokyo?
No that's just fringe group, usually they are in Yakusuni area, plus japs would hardly tell you off in front of you, now behind your back that's different story.

However with china acting like a dick and Abe stroking nationalism, who knows what's gonna happen in the future.

>What about asian foreigners? Is there any hope of intergrating into their society if you aren't 100% japanese?
No.
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>>855089
>no
So I guess the only way to intergrate into their society is to have been born into it huh?
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>>855090
pretty much, they ostracize kids who are half Japanese or born outside of Japan.. so yeah
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>>855092
man, that sucks ass, oh well at least the land of Nippon's worth a visit. How xenophobic are the other asian countries?
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>>855092
>they ostracize kids who are half Japanese or born outside of Japan.. so yeah

It's worse than that. They also ostracize third- and fourth-generation Koreans born in Japan. It's pretty bad when you're the fourth generation born in the country, you have a Japanese name, you only speak Japanese, etc., and they still treat you like an outsider.

>>855093
>How xenophobic are the other asian countries?

Pretty much just as bad, although arguably the Koreans are worse.
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>>855092
They are even do it to kids that go to foreign country for 3/4 years. To the point that those kids pretend not being able to speak english.

>>855093
True Japan is a great place to visit or even to stay for 1~3 years, but it's different story living there permanently.

SEA country are pretty chill.
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>>855096
I'm part chinese and filipino, but I mostly look chinese, can they tell the difference from my physical appearance? Or would they have to look at my mannerisms
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>>855097
>SEA
South East Asia?
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>>855098
>can they tell the difference from my physical appearance?

I don't know what you look like, but the answer is probably "yes."

If you're only visiting it doesn't matter. Even if they dislike you they'll treat you politely. What we're talking about is integrating into Japanese society -- being accepted as "Japanese." As we've been saying, even being born in Japan to Japanese parents sometimes isn't enough. Japanese society is crazy; I'm not sure why anyone would want to integrate into it anyway. Japanese society treats the Japanese people like shit.
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>>855102
Interesting, if you don't mind me asking how are you familiar with japanese society? I don't mean to be rude, I'm just curious. Also what do you mean by the japanese treating other japanese like shit?
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>>855105
(a) I live in Japan. (b) Society is very hierarchical; those on the lower levels (arguably a majority of the population) earn very little money in a very expensive country. Individuals are expected to sublimate their needs to the needs of the group but often this ethos is used to siphon money/power into the hands of the elite.
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>>855111
I see, kinda sounds like the west too, how hard would it be to move up in the hiearchy?
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>>855117

There's some degree of merit to it, but (as with almost everywhere else) connections are much more important. FWIW, I think social mobility in the West is much greater.

Anyway, I don't want to give you (or anyone else) the wrong impression. As individuals, Japanese people are very nice and very helpful. Japan is a very interesting place to visit, and it's a good place to live for a few years or more. But unless you're making a ton of $ I just don't see it as a good long-term option, but of course this is just my subjective opinion.
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>>855121
Thanks for your input so far man, would you say a majority of the population is racist in some way or form towards foreigners? Some people say that its mostly the older folks and that the younger generation is more accepting
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>>854203
Tattoos in Oki aren't a big deal, locals have to deal with the droves of Marines stationed there that are covered in them. Also, second the recommendation for Kyoto. I was just stationed in Oki for 2 years, the best times I had were on the mainland.
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>>855123
>would you say a majority of the population is racist in some way or form towards foreigners?

I'm glad you asked! I happen to have recently seen the results of a very interesting survey done by the NHK in 2013 (thanks, sankaku!). Highlights:

>To the question “compared to the people of other nations, do the Japanese possess vastly superior qualities?” 64% of Japanese agreed they were in fact the master race.
>The US, at 22.1%, is the “most liked” foreign country. Switzerland was in second place with 8.5%. The only other countries liked much were Australia and various European states. 22% of the Japanese polled liked no foreign countries at all.
>48% of Japanese reported having never had any interaction whatsoever with a foreigner in Japan.
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>>855128
That's pretty interesting,
>The US, at 22.1%, is the “most liked” foreign country. Switzerland was in second place with 8.5%. The only other countries liked much were Australia and various European states. 22% of the Japanese polled liked no foreign countries at all.

What about us Canadians man? Do they think we're just part of the USA ;-;?
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>>855134
>What aboot us Canadians, eh?

FTFY! I've no idea. Here's a link to the summary, if you're up for it (and can read some Japanese) perhaps you can find your answer there.

http://www.nhk.or.jp/bunken/summary/yoron/social/pdf/140520.pdf
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>>855135
I'm heading to bed now, thanks for all the answers anon
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>>855065
>anyone who hates foreigners isn't going to ask you anything

so basically, it's not a problem at all then?
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>>855180
>so basically, it's not a problem at all then?
Well, it is if you actually would want to interact with anyone who is japanese, and I would be guessing that you're interested in that seeing as you're in Japan?
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>>855193
I am not in Japan yet.

With that stament, you are implying that the whole population is racist and not just the minority that won't interact with me anyways
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>>855196
racism is a meaningless word these days.

Do 99% of japanese think that westerners lack tact and are generally lazier? Yes, they do think so. Is it generally true that westerners have less strict manners and work ethics, yes, this is also true. So is japanese people thinkin something that is generally true racist? I dunno, answer that yourself.

Most english proficient japanese will be plenty happy to talk to you. Whether you get what you want from these social interactions or not is up to you
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>>855215
you almost had me, but with those generalizations you've proven yourself as an /int/ worthy troll, thanks
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>>855219
I think they are just trying to give you advic, man.
No reason to be a fucking dick.
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>>855219
Dude, what he said is true, sadly enough. They might not show it, but they think it. They're also a very proud and nationalistic people.
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>>855196

A minority of Japanese will be willing to interact with you (those that have the necessary language skills), a majority would like to interact with you but cannot (insufficient language skills), and a minority will not be willing to interact with you (because racist). All three groups however will invariably be polite to you, at least in public. Since you are not planning to live here, I really don't think you need worry about any of this.

>>855215
>Is it generally true that westerners have less strict manners and work ethics

The strict manners are not always a good thing, you know. As far as work ethic goes, don't make the mistake of thinking this is monolithic in Japan. While some people don't mind the long hours (because they like work and/or dislike their families) most people are forced into excessive overtime because of the way typical Japanese companies operate.
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Okinawa has got some cool spots, its not all big city like mainland Japan tends to be with Tokyo, and Kyoto. They also somewhat consider themselves as there own people so you'll experience a little different culture. I'd say it would be a cool place to check out, just so you don't stay stuck in mainland the whole time.
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>>855229
>>855241
>99% of Japanese think that westerners lack tact and are generally lazier
>not a generalization

yeah no, but I refuse to take advice from somebody who does this
>>855244
oh I see that's good to know. I do speak conversational Japanese, so I guess maybe I can communicate with some locals then.
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>>855283
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLt5qSm9U80

>>855244
And the worst part of the overtime is they do it not because they are overworked but because they feels it will look bad on them if they go earlier than their boss vice versa.

They are workaholic but inefficient as hell.
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>>855244
I never said that working hard or strict manners were good or bad. I don't offer value judgements. I offer facts. The japanese DO put in more hours and DO value politeness more, and they DO see and think that westerners are less likely to be polite or work hard than japanese. Doesn't matter the reasons, doesn't matter if it's a generalization. It's true. Which is why posters like >>855283 are fucking stupid. He refuses to listen to REAL cultural differences because he thinks what I'm saying is a value judgement. It's not. It's a real reflection of how more than half of japanese feel about foreigners. He's burying his head in the sand.
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>>855350
I am well aware of the things you said, but that doesn't change the fact that you overgeneralize. Again "more than half of Japanese feel about foreigners". It's probably true. But you could've stated this much easier, without throwing out random numbers without any base. Also why should I care about Japanese work ethics when I only visit the country for only three weeks? All the things you are stating mostly apply to people who want to work or live in Japan and while it may be interesting to know these things, as a tourist, most of them won't really concern me IMO.
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>>855365
I never threw out numbers or made it complicated.

And yes, it won't matter much for just a visit, I already stated that most english proficient individuals would be more hgtan happy to talk to you.

You called the other poster racist because he was unapologetic about how bluntly pro-japanese superiority the majority of japanese are. That's the only reason I jumped into the conversation.

I was telling you it wasn't a gross generalization, and you called me a troll. It's a very real fucking thing, you've got your head buried in the sand, or somewhere else, if you really think you can argue otherwise.
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>>855350
>The japanese DO put in more hours

Compared to most Europeans, yes. Compared to Americans and Canadians, no. Compared to Chinese, hell no.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/19/charts-showing-just-how-much-americans-work-compared-to-the-french-germans-and-chinese-are-very-interesting/

>Japanese think westerners are less likely to work hard than japanese.

"Work more hours" doesn't necessarily equal "work hard." Also, do you have any cites that show what you claim the Japanese do and don't believe?

>>855329
>They are workaholic but inefficient as hell.

From my observations, there are 5 major reasons the Japanese work overtime:
1. Offices/companies are inefficient as hell (anyone who's tried to do business with a Japanese bank has witnessed this first-hand);
2. Peer pressure (if you don't put in the OT you aren't prioritizing the group and won't get promoted);
3. Societal pressure (if you don't work OT you must not have a very good job and are a failure in life);
4. Love of work and/or dislike of/disinterest in one's family;
5. Workers are forced to do it because many, many Japanese companies design their pay scales to make OT a substantial part of total annual pay. In other words, if employees don't work OT they will never earn enough income to adequately support their families.
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Hi OP. I live in Okinawa, Navy stationed there. They hate Foreigners, especially Americans, because a few years back some marines raped a woman here. Okinawa's okay, but the mainland is where it's at. It's beautiful, beaches are nice, lots of stuff to do, but you'd be better off in Kyushu or Honshu.
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>>855414
>a few years back some marines raped a woman here

The dislike is based on way, way more than that. Seriously, do some research -- you'll probably enjoy your stay in Okinawa a lot more if you have some idea of what's actually going on.
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Hijacking thread to avoid opening another Japan thread.
I am planning on visiting Okinawa around September, is this practical weather-wise? I understand this might be the typhoon season in Okinawa, and I already had some bad luck with those last year, running into a big one in the Kumano region.
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>>855587
Read the thread.
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>>855592
I read the entire thread, Only saw people explaining Tokyo and Kyoto are hot and humid, and explaining that Okinawa is best visited during cold months, no address of weather during typhoon season.
Sorry if I'm missing something.
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>>855596
September as well as late August is typhoon season.
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>>855600
From my experiences with typhoons in southern Kyuushuu and Kumano, usually the typhoon is only a couple of days long, and there's great weather for a while afterwards. Do you know how often they come during the typhoon season?

I know lots of Japanese people visit Okinawa during August, but I don't want to gamble
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>>855601
really rolling the dice like in southern us. One year it is reltively calm, the next it is a fucking mess
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>>855607
I see, actually saw similar opinions on Japanese sites, so I'll refrain from visiting this year.
Many thanks!
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