>>45397752 It has never stated that happens in the fluff, unless you wish to take dawn of war's fluff as official, but will just start a spiral of madness into multilasers, eldar being to stupid to speak English, and melta weaponry being unable to penetrate sheet metal.
You're basically a second class citizen, but pretty much any non-ethereal is also second class, so its more like 2.5 class and the gap isn't that huge either, just don't expect to be allowed real weapons or mech suits when you get drafted as a meat shield for real Tau. You may have to undergo chemical castration, too.
But, on the other hand, its probably better than living in the sludgey bowels of Hive City Belial.
Presumably, living under the Tau would be pretty baller considering...
>you would NOT be used as fodder (there's no reason to assume otherwise) >you would NOT be burned alive for having been within 10 km of a daemon sighting >you would NOT have to eat rehashed corpse rations >you would NOT have to rely on shitty lastech to get shit done
Serving the Imperium: The absolute most brutal and punishing means, to hopefully make the best ends for humanity.
A real man doesn't trade what is right and what must be done for mild comforts. Gue'vesa = shitty soft civilian crybabbies and Imperials = hardass face in the mud military.
Just look at the fluff story where they talk about how happy the IG were with how well the Tau were treating them. Can you just imagine the look on a grizzled cigar smoking sergeant or Commissar would give in response to that? Suck it up, faggot.
>>45398041 >>have sex with a woman? Not while on duty, but neither do tau Rank&File soldiers. >>eat half-decent food? No, but neither does anybody else in 40k with occasional exception of Rogue Trader or Planetary Governor. >>raise a family? Should they live to see end of the war, yeah. >>have any free time? See above. >>gain upwards mobility? No. >>pilot those sick mech suits? Maybe - one in a million chance, and it will be just the smallest one.
>>45398000 Trips, but to present another viewpoint:
In a short story, a world recently colonized by the Tau had fairly unhappy residents who worked to farm in fields, with robots playing recordings of propoganda about the Greater Good for them.
I feel like of course the Tau would go out of their way to get statements about how good life is in their empire, and how happy people are, but the civilians especially are basically trading one master for another.
>>45398110 >No, but neither does anybody else in 40k with occasional exception of Rogue Trader or Planetary Governor.
There was a story about how the governor's grox burgers got mixed up with the military corpse rations, and when it was fixed, tons of people went crazy or killed themselves or starved because they tasted how delicious a hamburger was and couldn't go back to slop.
>>45398132 To be fair, I doubt things would be worse for the galaxy if instead of everything being a bunch of feudal territories loosely united in a shared religion, it was a bunch of smaller territories spanning several systems with the same system of government.
>>45398132 Humanity wouldn't survive without some interstellar power with enough military might proportional to their current population level to protect them, no.
That doesn't mean the Imperium was the only thing that would have worked.
Are you trying to say that if the Emperor's plans had all succeeded (thereby eliminating the Imperium as we know it) that Humanity would have gone extinct? That the Imperium not being a shithole would make everyone die?
>>45398000 >choosing a painful, hard life in a place where the justifications for your painful hardlife are kept in extreme secrecy. Most imperial citizens just want to survive, and have some food, and some safety. The Tau not only provide this, but also have a generally feel good message of unity and hope that's very appealing to a group of people who call the current age the "Age of Ending".
>>45398223 If you really don't care much about anything but your own pleasure in existence, then just go join Slaanesh. Even if you're not into that kind of thing now, they'd make sure you were, and you'd be loving every moment of it until they cast your broken corpse aside.
>>45398041 Yes, as long as she's in your caste and willing.
Yes, so long as you make sure you don't eat more than your share during shortages.
Yes, as long as your population isn't wildly out of control on your world. You may be required a term of service to have this depending on circumstance.
Yes, but the more of it you spend on tasks which benefit the community (a hobby or trained skill turned towards providing for others or training them in its use, for example) the more likely you are to receive preferential treatment and potentially allow humanity to elevate their status.
Not individually, but the actions of the Gue'vesa might see an advance in their status under the Greater Good, should they show themselves worthy.
>>45398445 But it is, technically. Your self-interest would eventually devolve into bashit hedonism, which would be possible to achieve provided you don't mind that everything about yourself, your goals, dreams and decisions are likely the domination of another individual, not like you'd actually have a problem with it once they got their hands on you.
>>45398179 >Anyways, you get better weapons and armor than you would as a guardsman Cite needed - the only current rules have regular IG kit for everyone except the squad leader who might get a pulse rifle.
>>45398668 Quality of life would probably be better over all for any human. It'd be just as authoritarian, but the actual quality of life would be better, and you might even have more rights depending on what kind of Imperial world you belonged to. People forget that the Imperium is huge and varies widely in culture and custom from world to world. There are many worlds in the Imperium with decent standards of living, just as there are worlds where existence is a living hell.
If you can find a woman who's willing to have sex with you.
>eat half-decent food?
>have any free time?
>gain upwards mobility?
I think that among your fellow humans you could have upward mobility. So you could potentially rise as high as the leader of a regiment of humans serving under the Tau, or some sort of human ambassador that deals with other cultures or serves as an intermediary.
>pilot those sick mech suits?
The Tau share their tech, but I doubt they'd share the mech suits unless there was a real reason to do so. Be satisfied with sick ass pulse rifles, a hammerhead, or whatever else. Don't expect the top tier shit.
>raise a family?
Questionable. My interpretation is that sterilization is something the Tau do in certain circumstances, not some genocidal thing they do against all humans. And especially if you were a willing fighter for the Tau and not some citizen captured through conquest, there'd be no logic to sterilizing you. If you have babies, that's more babies that'll fight for the Tau one day.
>>45398681 The sciences of the Biologis haven't really declined in the Imperium, just hoarded for higher use, as a result it's safe to say that the Magos Biologis completely blow the Tau out of the metaphorical water in medicine and general biological knowledge.
>>45398681 They might be more interested in producing it and better able to handle the population they have over the massive population the Imperium has. However the Imperium did temporarily have access to the STC that contained a literal cure-all that got stolen by the dark eldar, but the salamanders do know how to get to their place so if the Imperium can scrounge up a crusade, they have the potential to get it back.
>>45398856 Of course they do, Tau aren't anywhere near jaded enough as a society to see any intelligent biological constructs as mere tools, yet. That being said, they might change their minds when members of all their allies start spouting Daemonic whispers and performing acts of horrific indifference/maliciousness.
>>45398786 The general consensus seems to be that no, they wouldn't be touching those Crisis suits. lrn2read
>b-but muh humanity fuck yeah
The Tau may not give that much of a fuck about humanity, but at least they don't intentionally murder their own human subjects and they tend to avoid needlessly inflicting casualties on their own soldiers (Gue'vasa included).
>>45397699 From what I've seen Tau are a conventional imperial power rather than the omnicidal fuckwits that are the Imperum of Man. So I imagine how much it sucks depends on your point of view. They will build schools - that only teach the tau way of life, fuck your native superstitions about AI and Demons. They will build defences of powerful technology - that they will use against you if you ever get uppity and refuse to work in the mines for your daily quota. They'll let you live where ever you like – so long as its not atop vital resources they need for the empire in which case move your ass or get working said resources. And of course you can govern yourself under what ever kind of king or president or what ever you like – so long as they are pro Tau and don't dare suggest any path except the greater good or what ever the Etherals demand of you today.
So yeah, I doubt its paradise but Tau Empire is a benevolent dictatorship compared to the Imperiums plain old insane dictatorship.
>>45397752 That's not standard operation procedure. They may do that for overpopulated worlds like hive worlds for population control.
As far as the rest goes, you will be treated as second class citizens, but not treated poorly like the imperium does. While the imperium calls you master race, unless you're nobility on an agriworld, life sucks shit.
In the tau empire, your treated fairly among your peers and all given equal due like a communist society that works.
>>45398580 You've never actually read her work I take it? >"the diamond band on the wrist of her naked arm gave her the most feminine of all aspects: the look of being chained." -Atlas shrugged
>"She tried to tear herself away from him. The effort broke against his arms that had not felt it. Her fists beat against his shoulders, against his face. He moved one hand, took her two wrists and pinned them behind her, under his arm, wrenching her shoulder blades.…She fell back against the dressing table, she stood crouching, her hands clasping the edge behind her, her eyes wide, colorless, shapeless in terror. He was laughing. There was the movement of laughter on his face, but no sound.…Then he approached. He lifted her without effort. She let her teeth sink into his hand and felt blood on the tip of her tongue. He pulled her head back and he forced her mouth open against his." -The Fountainhead, depicting the HERO of the story with the HEROINE, who has openly invited this treatment.
Imperium >get shot if you are a heretic >as long as you aren't some press ganged crew member, a mutant in the underhive or a really unlucky slum dweller you can advance in society >work for the future of humanity
Tau >if you are a dissenter, you get to be brainwashed, falling that they fuck with you to make you an outcast and then shoot you in secret >highest position is you can attain is being a squad combat leader, but you are still under a Tau sargeant, no civilian alternative >get eaten by Daemons because Tau don't know shit about the galaxy
>>45398856 >Tau probably care more about individual human lives than most higher-ups in the Imperium.
Technically the Tau Empire does not care about any of its citizens. The greater good teaches that one should live for the benefit of the empire only. So you should not reap any rewards or live a long life. The 5th edition rulebook states that when it comes to life the greater good teaches " the flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long ".
The Tau are all about efficiency. They don't really care about individuals unless you are beneficial to the Empire.
>>45397699 Better than the Imperium, but far from perfect I would say. The Tau are explicitly classist and mildly racist. They consider non-Tau an important part of their culture, but they are very much secondary to Tau. They probably *don't* sterilize humans as a matter of course, I'd guess that that was an extreme measure used in an extreme time and continuance of the theme that the Tau will become more like the Imperium down the years. Still, I doubt they are above "re-education" for people who are particularly troublesome. Tau do at least have the decency to try and be discrete about their authoritarianism, there would be controversy in the Empire if they say, fired on peaceful protesters or something. I'd guess the technology would mean a greater amount of free time and a higher standard of living too. Still, like any immigrant group you'd run into the troubles of adjusting to a culture that is very different from your own. There's a lot that humans would be impressed by, but also a lot of clashing values that would be hard to resolve. In the military, Tau generally don't have cannon fodder, but they *do* take that Greater Good doctrine seriously, which does include units sacrificing themselves to ensure a Commander escapes or to provide a key tactical advantage. I wouldn't be surprised if human units find themselves put in that position more frequently than Fire Warriors, but I think Tau actually do have concern for their allies and would do their best not to use them as sacrificial lambs if it can be helped.
>>45399348 Because people disagree on the best way to handle virtually every given situation, Anon. I'm no fan of the Tau Empire myself but it sounds like you're baiting, at which point I guess I have to commend you on being so convincingly illogical.
>>45398681 One Imperial planet literally cured everything. Before they could do anything with that, a very angry Nurgle invaded and destroyed everything. And Tau can't into life extension, because they want you to die young for the greater good. Except for that nanobot guy and Farsight with his vampiric Necron blade.
>>45398998 What about how the Tau test their new rifles? They willingly use soldiers for testing, even though they know the rifle/helmet connection has a ridiciliously high chance to fry the soldiers brains.
>>45399439 If you're referring to the piece I think you are, that was a weapon demonstration rather than a simple test. It was monumentally bad luck that the feedback occurred, since the odds of it happening were a fraction of a percent.
Coincidentally, the Ethereal the demonstration was for decided that fraction of a percent was too high.
>>45399396 This. Farsight also figured out that part of Ethereal control appears to be pheromones/mind control of some sort, which shattered his faith in them. Remember that Tau grow up believing that Ethereals are simply the wisest and most rational Tau, that the reason they always obey an Ethereal is because the command always seems to make sense. Farsight realized when he got away from them that they had ordered him to do foolish or immoral things, and he had just not questioned it but been *unable* to question it. Pretty decent reason to rebel desu.
The most important thing to remember about the Imperium-Tau debate.
When you talk about how poorly people are treated in the Imperium it's all referencing canon. People starve. People work ten hour labor days in smoggy factories. Mass numbers of people are treated like shit. Forces of guardsmen are marched across mine fields because "they aren't as important as tanks." Entire planets full of innocents are exploded because of asshole Inquisitors, etc. This is all canon.
When people talk about how "bad" the Tau are and how they mistreat the human renegades who live under their rule, the only actual piece of canon evidence is the one bit from Dawn of War about the Tau sterilizing some humans. Every other canon source of information suggests the Tau treat humans in the most merciful and just way, and that if you're some human who isn't lucky enough to be born into a position of power you'd be better off living under the Tau than the corrupt and fucked over Imperium.
Every bit of talk about Tau brainwashing people, murdering people, permitting no free will, being total tyrants, etc. is all made up shit and some in some cases even contradicts canon.
>>45399486 Conditioner that commendation solidified, you sneaky bastard.
You're not Water Caste, are you?
>>45399584 Might think he's the only one strong enough to handle immortality without becoming deranged or something. A lot of Humans today wrongly think those sorts of things and Tau, in the end, are very Human, because they were written by Humans who don't exactly have the psychology experience to make something "different," yet stable and varied.
>>45399591 >Every bit of talk about Tau brainwashing people, murdering people, permitting no free will, being total tyrants, etc. is all made up shit and some in some cases even contradicts canon. Lol no
Also >every Imperial planet is like Necromunda and Krieg >every IG commander is like Chenkov
>>45398083 >It's like asking if a nigger could pilot a fighter jet if we still had slaves when even good non-blacks don't rate a jet. This has to be the edgiest analogy i've ever heard someone pull out of their ass for 4chan cool points
lemme tell you something about the gue'vesa anon they're the worst scum of humanity and i'm glad we got rid of them
there's always been two kind of humans , those who require instant gratification and those who can start a work that they'll never see finished.
The guard are those men, they're the kind of people that would have laid the first stone to a cathedral that wouldn't be finished for generations. toiling till their last never seeing the fruit of their labour but comforted by the knowledge that they had a small part in something truly great.
The gue'vesa on the other hand are the lowest of the low. those who chose comfort and ease over duty and honour. If, emperor forbid the tau ever defeat the empire their offspring will pay the price when the humans of the tau empire have served their purpose maybe some of them truly believe their masters' propaganda, maybe some of them think that by service they can avert this faith. and others i'm sure simply don't care all they care for is themselves, never seeing past their own lifespan
I'd be really interested if you could provide any canon sources detailing how bad the Tau are.
>Also.. every Imperial planet is like Necromunda and Krieg... every IG commander is like Chenkov
Follow me here for a second.
In the Warhammer 40,000 universe the worst places to live are the Hive Cities and other masses of humanity where the general populace lives in awful conditions. The worst regiments to fight for are the ones that conscript huge masses of people and let most of them die.
Statistically, if you were born here on modern-day Earth you'd be more likely to be born in an urban area than out in the county. This is because there's lots and lots of people having lots and lots of babies in those urban areas, while comparatively fewer people live in the country. Think in terms of statistics.
A hive city like Necromunda has over 100 billion people according to canon, while an agri world usually has under 100 million. Huh.
So SURE! You could be born on some peaceful agri world. You could be enlisted into a regiment that values its soldiers and fights honorably for the Imperium.
But statistically, you're much more likely to be born as a piece of gutter scum in a Hive City or join as a recruit of some regiment that has an 80% casualty rate, because that's where the majority of humanity is.
From that perspective, it's obvious that most of the Imperial populace does live under such awful conditions. This is further confirmed by the general tone of most canon sources that talk about the Imperium.
"To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable... this is a dark and terrible era where you will find little comfort and hope." -Warhammer 40k Codex Imperialis p.2
If 99% of the military students at flight school aren't allowed to fly multi-million dollar fighter craft, then second class citizens definitely wouldn't be allowed to.
Blacks weren't even allowed to drink from white drinking fountains, and you're basically asking if black people from that era would be allowed to fly the best planes in the military or drive the best cars down the street.
>>45399457 One Tau recruit possessed by some random demon managed to single handedly kill several thousand Space Marines, Imperial Guard, stop a crusade and destroy a dozen imperial ships up to a Grand Cruiser.
Why bother with Chaos Marines, there's almost no return on investment compared to possessed Tau which turn into Doomguy.
>>45399668 >Might think he's the only one strong enough to handle immortality without becoming deranged or something. A lot of Humans today wrongly think those sorts of things It's unpleasant to think that we're living in a world where Rockefeller, Soros and the Kotch Brothers might live forever.
>>45399545 And that's why Tau Char Aznable is a true hero.
>>45400002 Dude. Not every planet is a hive world. Not every Commander is Chenkov.
People tend to exaggerate the whole Grimdarkness. It simply depends where you'd be born.
If yer lucky, then you'll probably be born one one of the few nicest Imperial Worlds or the worlds of Ultramar.
Yes, there are assholes like Chenkov, but there are also people like Commissar Yarrick or Vance Stubbs who are fathers to their men.
Most worlds in the Imperium are classified as Imperial Worlds, but their shape and how they function varies wildly. Some come closer to Hive Worlds, others look like the larger cities on current day Earth. Some are more primitive, going so far as to go into stone age era worlds.
Governments also differ. Others have democratic rule, and others are ruled directly by the governor.
The Imperium is a harsh place to live in for good reasons (as well as some reasons that could be easily avoided yet stay to increase the grimderpness), yet it's not THIS bad.
If you resist, you go to a gulag for re-education. If you don't you life fairly well. That said, the Tau are likely to deport you deep within the Empire. This both kills any organized resistance, as in real life, and helps assimilation.
>>45400734 No, not everyone is treated equally, but they do tolerate differences and embrace one anothers quirks. Most Orks think the flyboyz are insane, for instance, but they're just like whatever, let 'em be weird.
It's still deportation. It's a very efficient tool at killing any guerrilla movement. However, given the efficiency and technology of the Tau, it is likely more humane than real life examples of such practise.
>Commissar, I would like to see this city built up again. I would like to see towers and spires of gleaming white. I would like to see our men on parade routes, not tours of duty. I would like to see every city in this planet, every colony in this besotted, miserable system turned to the service and industry of the Imperium, in the Emperor’s name!
>>45399945 >stupid nigger lover there's nothing stupid about loving my compatriots anon but keep sharpening those edges. >>45400109 segregation and jim crow was a thing, we all know that, that doesn't take away from some closeted faggot on the internet feeling the need to throw "niggers" into every damn topic
>>45397792 >Non-canon vidya I don't get it /tg/. We sit around shitting on Tau for being Mary Sues, and then when there's an example of Tau being interesting and suitably grimdark we all find reasons for it not to count.
He found an average Joe guy from a race that normally don't even show up in the warp shine so brightly through sheer will power.
That's the exact thing Khorne loves. Khrone cares not from where the blood flows, though it should be mentioned that Khrone is a cosmic presence he's not really a "person" so to assume that he had a agenda rather than just for filling his nature seems a stretch.
>>45400707 >>45400731 >>45400872 Wonder what the ethereals think of the emperor I remember a moment from the fire warrior novel where kais finds a statue of the emperor and feels that it has some kind of importance to it and that it gives off the air of a father figure
>>45402237 malcador would have been the goat tier leader for humanity thanks to all the bullshit in the fluff emps is kidof an idiot at times
on a side note did he ever interact with any aliens in the books ? i'm wondering if the whole inspiring thing the emperor does to humans would work on xenos i would assume it wouldn't be as potent or even have an effect at all considering that different species just express themselves in different ways
>>45401332 >I think Stubbs was also considered the winner because Cyrus survived Kurava, and the IG victory is the only version that makes this possible. It isn't.
>>45401402 >PRECISELY, and it seems thq and gw said that IG was the canon ending. They didn't.
>>45401493 >I'm still looking for the source on that and cannot find it. Because it doesn't exist.
>>45402079 "You are a wise man, Raphael Palmatus, and, despite his modest words, I know that your military advisor here is no ordinary soldier. You should both go back to your Emperor and tell him what you have seen here. Tell him of all the people that will die in his name and ask him if it is worth such a price to stand in our way."
>>45402127 Kais is one of the most generic Tau names possible, since it just means skillful. Farsight, for instance, is also a Kais.
>>45402455 >on a side note did he ever interact with any aliens in the books ? The only ones were Orks. He had nothing to do with the Interex and Diasporex. >Seriously, this requires a Chaos God tier of suspension of disbelief. >implying they're not writing the novels
>>45402979 >>45402950 yeah but the all knowing man that he is Big E should have seen that answering "because i'm right " is a less than unsatisfactory answer to what differentiates him from bloodthirsty crusaders >>45403013 he just wanted to stop feeding the chaos gods i think he even started some religions himself but saw as they got corrupted each time
>>45402950 So was the emperor Jesus and Mohammed, but why would he make a religion that allowed separation of church and state and then make another one that is a political ideology and a religion. And also if the emperor was Mohammed then he is a confirmed pedophile and a slaver.
>>45403117 >why would he make a religion that allowed separation of church and state and then make another one that is a political ideology and a religion he was trying different approach each time, sadly nothing really worked
>>45403114 don't think he ever did people are are fucking stupid jesus called everyone children of god and still retards interpreted it literally and on top of that though he meant he's the ONLY son of god
>>45403705 >All the others action reports say that no spacemarines survived
Most of them simply don't say anything about it at all. The SoB and Chaos reports are the only other ones to mention the victorious faction doing stuff to the Blood Ravens that hadn't died during the battle*, but even in those cases it could easily just mean the Blood Ravens that they were able to get their hands on while the rest fled:
>Any survivors were shown the mercy of battlefield confession, which was far quicker and less painful than proper Inquisition proceedings.
>Although the dead Space Marines were horribly desecrated in the aftermath, it was those who somehow survived that were truly to be pitied. The dying Commander Boreale was forced to watch many of these unspeakable atrocities before the last trickle of life drained from his body.
* technically, there's also the Necron victory, though that one is wholly from Boreale's own point of view
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