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So I've read Mont'ka (Yes I know...
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So after all the tears,blood and semen that was the launching of this book for /tg/ and the warhammer 40k community as a whole. I've decided to see what was all the fuss was about.

And after having reading it I come to the conclusion that the tau have a secret weapon that make all Imperial officers inept.

This was supposed to be a one sided slaughter the planet was suffering a huge blokade, the imperials had numerical advantage to take key location and encicle the city forcing Shadowsun to split her forces even more and weakening their defenses as a whole they decide to land in one location and make a b-line for the city by doing this giving her time to harass the imperial forces and killing field officers.
I've thought the Imperium would have learned from all those humbling deafeats but it seems, that it's to much to ask competence while fighting the Tau
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>>45379072
>they decide to land in one location and make a b-line for the city by doing this giving her time to harass the imperial forces and killing field officers.

Been a while since I have read the books but I am sure there was an explanation for it.
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>>45379072
>b-line
It's bee-line, as in OH GOD THE BEES
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>>45379214
They wanted to draw her into open conflict which is reatarded if you don't use you superior artillery like you are supposed to.
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>>45379072
>that it's to much to ask competence while fighting the Tau
Competence fighting the tau would result in the tau's destruction. To sell more models any force fighting the tau will be 600% incompetent.
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>>45379330
can't you use your imagination to fill for my grammar mistakes?
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>>45379429
Is there a way for the imperium to win and let the Tau live?
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>>45379493
>Is there a way for the imperium to win and let the Tau live?
Any successful conflict bigger than a minor skirmish would be the end of the tau.
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There's no superweapon. Mankind in 40k are the descendents of the Stone Men, genetically designed to be tough, but not smart. The Golden Men true genetically superior Mankind died long ago during the Age of Strife.
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>>45379493

No, because the Imperium can't win anymore vs the Tau with the hordes of threats rising elsewhere. The Imperium is finished.
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>>45379564
Wait how would you explain Creed then?
>>
I thought that the Imperial forces did it pretty well before Farsight came into play.
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My biggest question is why the hell would Farsight help the Empire he disowned?
>>
>Launch an invasion vs the Tau.
>Can't even send a single Titan Legion.
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>>45379627

There's a prophecy that predicted the events in Mont'ka. He's attempting to master his own fate.
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>>45379072
The whole Damocles 2 thing was high octane skubageddon in its purest form. Even on the Damocles Crusade talk page on 1d4chan there is a ginormous discussion on the whole thing.

At least one of the nicer things to come from this was Shrike going in for the position of Raven Guard Chapter Master.

>>45379627
He may hate the Ethereals and how the Empire is currently, but he does have loyalty to his race.

That's Tau Char for you. Also >>45379674
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>>45379593

Mutant or...
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>>45379627
He really wanted to get into that shadowsun forehead
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>>45379722
THIS IS NOT FUCKING CANON!!!
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>>45379646
What happened to the two titan legions promised for the Crusade?
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>>45379697
Keikako doori
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>>45379603
They were winning through sheer numbers, not tactical brilliance.
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>Imperiums face when attackting the Tau
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>>45379841
It's really is a shame. The writers makes the Imperium overly incompetent and make the Tau seem like complete mary sues (which they are).
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>>45379583

Mhmm. Sure thing, cultist.
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>>45379745
>>45379722
Shadowsun confirmed for season 3
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>>45379749

It was all a lie. All the billions of guardsmen and thousands of Space Marines were mere sacrifices for the Adeptus Mechanicus to safely steal Xeno Tech and a cover to deploy the Assassins.
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>>45379981
>Adeptus Mechanicus

The biggest douchebags in the Imperium.
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>>45379945
ABSOLUTELY LIVID.
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Guys...you can rationalize this by saying that Mont'ka is Tau Propaganda.
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>>45379593
Creed doesn't fight against Tau. If it happened, GW would find an excuse for him to lose.
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>>45379072
>that the tau have a secret weapon that make all Imperial officers inept.
It's called plot armor
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>>45380052
>Nu uh! It's all completely true and objective narrator cause it says Lion El'Johnson is asleep and no one in the whole galaxy knows it!

But seriously, fuck anyone who thinks 40k lore isn't supposed to be biased and subjective.
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>>45380052
>So the imperium won the second battle of Mulgulath bay and the tau decide unleash a secret weapon cutting off their third sphere of expasion from the second because they were super salty?

That's.... better!?
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>>45379072
It's a proven fact that there's no better way of showcasing a character or faction's tactical genius than by making their opponents act like idiots.
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>>45380330
But it still is lazy as fuck though!
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>>45380414
GW doesn't care
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Imperium has won battles against overwhelming odds plenty of times but I guess that's fine cause you play them. Meanwhile you expect them to wipe out a popular faction because they dare give your faction the avatar, swarmlord treatment.
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>>45380432
I know :(
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>>45380470
The Tau having heroic victories is not the problem the problem for me is that it seems the Imperium never learn from their mistakes while fighting against the tau.
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>>45380509

Didn't the Imperium win at Voltoris? Shadowsun had a trauma or something over being tricked and defeated there.
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>>45380470
some fucking competence would be nice
even failbaddon can lose a crusade while still magically accomplishing all his objectives
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>>45380470
Imperium never won against Tau. Guess how this fight against bloodthirsty blueberries ended.
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>>45380525
>Shadowsun had a trauma or something over being tricked and defeated there.
Psyhological trauma and bruised ego? Wow, that fucking sucks as much as thousands of dead soldiers.
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>>45379072
>I've thought the Imperium would have learned from all those humbling deafeats
When the official line is "Thought begets doubt, doubt begets heresy," you should never assume the Imperials will learn from any defeat
>>
Imperial officers are always inept, the tau don't need to do a damn thing.
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>>45380525
She swore to redouble her efforts in the conquest of the Third Sphere of Expasion
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>>45380550
The black templars were able to retake Nimbosa and the last chancers killed brightsword so yeah it's a imperial victory.
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>>45380525
>Voltoris

The knight world? The knights of that world were said to have lost more knights fighting the Tau in that conflict than they lost knights in the Horus Heresy.

Also that the Tau giant suits were deadliest opponents they ever encountered. More powerful and deadly than the Ork and Chaos walkers they fought before.
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>>45380584
One would think Commanding officers would take special interest in battle reports detailing how and why their predecessors failed. But hey that's just me.
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>>45380664
Biiter victory after massacre without any damage to planets, population and infrastructure of invaders? Fuck that and fuck tauwank.
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>>45380664
The Tau returned and took over the planet. The planet is a back and forth warzone to this day.

>last chancers killed brightsword

With Tau help.
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>>45380715
Which only makes the Obsidian Knight a even more of badass.
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>>45380550
There was that time Sicarius and his groupies single-handedly stopped the entire Third Sphere Expansion before the next Tau codex 5 years later revealed that it was actually in accordance with Shadowsun's keikaku.
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>>45380767
>here was that time Sicarius and his groupies single-handedly stopped the entire Third Sphere Expansion

Even back then I pointed out that this was bullshit and you guys are completely wrong.

Glad I got vindicated
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>>45380540
Imperium did too

The true objective was for the AdMec to get their hands on that sweet, sweet, tech-heresy

I wouldn't be surprised if some people in the AdMec believe the real reason for Tau technology is some forgotten STCs, and they're only doing this to try to either find the STCs or puzzle out what they are by looking at the tech
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>>45380717
THOUGHT BEGETS DOUBT
Besides, the Lord Commander (who'd be the one with the reports) never fights on the front lines, it's not his neck at stake win or lose
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>>45380878
The objective of the Imperium as to drive back the Tau across the Damocles Gulf.

They couldn't even drive them off a single world.
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>>45380920

>This is what Astra Militarum and the Space Marines believe.
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>>45380920
Ad Mec aren't even part of the Imperium, why would they care what the Imperium wants? Considering the shit they stole and the titan legions they didn't sent, it was a glorious victory
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>>45381033
>why would they care what the Imperium wants
Depends on details of their deal with Emps.
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>>45380905
It may be not but he still have to talk to his brass and plan the campaign with his allies does he not!?
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>>45381033
But what about the Forgeworlds the Tau conquered. Forgeworlds like Halfus.
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>>45381074
lost because a tau player is grasping at straws trying to justify his mary sues
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>>45380878
collectivism and embracing the ideas of innovation and science without all the religious stuff the admech does which slows it to a crawl
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>>45379564
Big E reconstructed the Man of Gold before the great crusade.
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>>45380139
Do you even Propaganda?
If your leadership tells you about a huge victory, but somehow you see no gains, it's pyric at best. Because telling your people "Yeah we lost a shitload of you for nothing." is not exactly the stuff that keeps your neck attached to your body.
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>>45380550
Well Tau never won against 'Nids without help. So that means 'Nids are bestest.
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>>45379493
maybe but the proportion of competence would remain the same. So the tau would need to be 600% more competent elsewhere. So maybe the tau open stargates to allied xenos everywhere and flee to them as the imperium hammers the tau homeworlds. So the tau escape and the imperium thinks the tau are dead. However this couldn't happen because the amount of plot armor required is mind shattering.
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Montka was a godsend because it gave me this
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>>45381033
The are an Adeptus now. Before the HH they were seperate, after they are bound to it. More losely than anyone else, but still a part of it.
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>>45380139
I thought the mechanicus set up the weapon that cut the sphere off?
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>>45379072
>the tau have a secret weapon that make all Imperial officers inept.
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>>45381823
Yes the mechanicus did that. We were just talking as if the Mont'ka book was simply tau propaganda
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>>45381955
Oh, sorry, I sort of skimmed there.
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>>45379919
Actually the imperium being incompetent is rather the norm, with many of its leaders being in their position, because daddy had it too. Heck even the best general of the Astra Militarum, Mr Creed, only got his position because Chaos killed half the command staff and Creed simply took over.
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>>45382208
The Imperium being incompetent is not really the biggest problem for me, my biggest grudge is that it's officers don't learn from the mistakes of their predecessors.
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>>45380760
So that's where the "heard you were talking shit m8" thing comes from.
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I do not get the imperial incompetance.

They killed aun va and stopped the third sphere expansion.

THATS A FUCKING WIN.
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>>45382441
He appears when imperial forces are fighting tau and go always where the fight is the thickest or he helps another Knights in battle, only to disappear again when the battle is over.
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>>45382208

You left out the part where Creed single handedly turns a complete massacre into the first Imperial victory of the 13th Black Crusade.
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>>45382446
By sacrificing millions, being forced to evacuate the planet and losing some pretty fucking rare super-heavies.
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>>45382369
>Imperium at war for 10,000 years, massive knowledge base even if chaos stuff is redacted
>Humans can live twice to three times Tau lifespan before Juvenat, giving them more time to gain skill
>average Space Marine officer is minimum 5 times older than any Tau, in a life of literally nothing but war
>Tau somehow outthink the Imperium at every turn
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>>45379072

this book had way too much art. like a dozen full page spreads with a paragraph of text. Then half of every other page is taken up by art (some of it reused). Should have gone into more details. SM were completely glossed over for example. Aun'va's death was like like a page of text or less. Crazy times. Let me read GW, kids can handle it.
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>>45382596
Because the Imperium is bad at recording knowledge. Heck, Ignorance is a chief virtue for the Imperium. The Admech codexes outright say the foundation of knowledge of the imperium are built upon lies.
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>>45382446
>I do not get the imperial incompetance.

The Imperials stopped nothing. The admech did by pulling those missiles out of their cogbutts.

The stated objective of the Crusade was to throw the Tau once again across the Damocles Crusade and if possible crush them once and for all. The crusade failed at that.

The Tau still have all the worlds they took from the Imperium beyond the gulf minus the world that was nuked. They are isolated from the empire but they are still in Tau hands.
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>>45382648
But if a Space Marine Chapter Master has lived and fought for 300 years and is a tactical genius because of it, what do records have to with anything?
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>>45379438
Why not take the opportunity to learn instead of defending your ignorance?
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>>45382707
Because it's good to pass your knowledge with your allies.
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>>45382744
Because it's 4chan and I like being a sarcastic asshole.
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How can all these nerds still argue about some menial shit after all these times? Haven't they learn anything?
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>>45379694
The whole discussion on the 1d4chan page is literally two assholes bitching about the book. TWO PEOPLE, WRITING MORE BITCHING ABOUT THE BOOK, THAN THERE IS TEXT IN THE ACTUAL BOOK

Like, I'm not even fucking joking when I say that the Kauyon's Talk page on 1d4chan is 500,000 bytes long. Codex: Tau Auxiliary is the longest non-talk page in the wiki, and it's only 338,000 bytes long, with 128 unit entries.

Two assholes have literally written an entire codex of nothing but bitching about Kauyon.
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>>45383132
That's impressive
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>>45383132
Seriously, the talk page is now double the size of Codex: Knights Inductor, and it's literally just you two have a non-stop month-long back and forth. Just get a room and fuck each other senseless if you guys have that much pent up sexual frustration. Evilexecutive

HAHA WTF!
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>>45383132
Wish I could make this stuff up.
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>>45382446
>They killed aun va and stopped the third sphere expansion.
Yeah, about that. Why the fuck was it a culexus assassin that killed Aun'va? Everything about that choice makes exactly zero sense. A race of technologically advanced xenos with no psykers and minimal presence in the warp? BETTER SEND THE ANTI-PSYKER ASSASSIN WHOSE ABILITIES WORK BEST ON PSYKERS!
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>>45379072
I have this feeling that anything having to do with Humans/Tau is going to be poorly written and poorly thought out. These fluffy things serve only as fodder for weebs who play Tau. If you don't play Tau there is literally no point to even reading this book. It is literally trash.
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>>45383530
Culexus is the best at stealth and it's mentioned that they are against non-psychic targets before like Necrons.
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>>45383581
>If you don't play Tau there is literally no point to even reading this book

What about the formations though?
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>>45383647
>Culexus is the best at stealth
Citation please
> and it's mentioned that they are against non-psychic targets before like Necrons.
wat?
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>>45383665
Just steal the recon one
Shame there's nothing good for the scars
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>>45379722
>>45379745
>>45379945
>>45380048
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>>45383727
Cucked by a custodes is it a honor or not? You decide!
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>>45383694
>Citation please

Etherium.

The assassin game rulebook.

>wat?

Necron 7th ED codex.

They sent an Execution Team to kill Szeras.
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>>45379072

The thing that got me about the book was how the opening chapter said the force that arrived around Mu'gulath Bay was large enough to conquer the planet '10 times over' or something, and yet failed to even conquer it once.
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>>45383132
>>45383348
My sides.
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>>45381759
They worship their own god.

You can claim they're part of the Imperium, but by any reasonable definition they're an Empire within and Empire, considering they never let out any of their toys (Titans, Scitarrii) unless it directly benefits them.
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>>45383530
>Yeah, about that. Why the fuck was it a culexus assassin that killed Aun'va? Everything about that choice makes exactly zero sense. A race of technologically advanced xenos with no psykers and minimal presence in the warp? BETTER SEND THE ANTI-PSYKER ASSASSIN WHOSE ABILITIES WORK BEST ON PSYKERS
She's the stealthiest, and IIRC she literally blended in pretending to be Aun'Va's guard
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>>45384680

>She
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>>45383530
1) They can phase through walls
2) They can make themselves invisible by forcing the enemies mind to not even recognize they exist
3) They can't be seen by conventional technology
4) They have an attack that the Tau have literally no defense against
>>
So just like every Imperial victory over Eldar/Chaos ever then...?
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>>45380509
>>45380540
>>45380592
>>45380717

Well, considering the Imperium is a rotten and decayed, galaxy-sized bureaucracy, it should only be a few centuries longer before some scribe-servitor on Terra learns about the Tau. Then it's only a matter of decades before someone of import can read it, and further years until battle tactics can be proper updated!
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>>45382596
Imperium is a decaying empire run by retards. They usually fight other stupid humans or even more stupid orks. It's no surprise.
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>>45381033
AdMech are part of the Imperium. They report to the High Lords. They're just a state within a state. The reason the Imperial Aquila has two heads is because it's Terra and Mars in union.

As for religion, they worship the Omnissiah but view the Emperor as an aspect of it.
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>>45380550
>>45380540
>>45380550
>>45380664
>>45380767
Latest fluff actually gives the Imperium a real decisive victory over the Tau. Shadowsun gets straight-up bitchslapped by sneaky Imperial planning.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Battle_of_Voltoris

Never claim at least some at GW aren't listening.
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>>45382707

If you fight Orks and Cultists for 300 years, it won't do a whole lot of good against Tau, because they fight in completely different ways from everyone else in the setting. You have to get outsmarted at least once in order to learn from your mistakes, and it just so happens that Tau are good at coming up with new ways to outsmart their opponents.
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>>45390683
>Latest fluff actually gives the Imperium a real decisive victory over the Tau. Shadowsun gets straight-up bitchslapped by sneaky Imperial planning.

You need to actually read the Kauyon and Mont'ka books.
Voltoris was just a minor setback in the beginning of the Kauyon book, and Shadowsun goes on to completely humiliate the Imperium over the course of 2 books using "brilliant" tactics and tricks that wouldn't work without sickening levels of plot armor and unimaginative writing.
>>
In dawn of war their troops could 1v2 the imperial guard and 1v1 any other single infantry unit, maybe they secretly love the weeaboos more than they love us???
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>>45379538
Tau sell way too well to ever let that happen.
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All this discussion is fascinating. But I'm still waiting for Rule 34 on Shadowsun x Callidus Assassin. It has been a couple of months already. Come on!
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>>45382446
Nobody liked Aun'va. Now that his place is vacant blue Big Boss can take over tau and lead them to the greater future.
>>
Doesn't the Imperium exterminatus Mu'Gulath Bay after killing Aun'va? Losing a lot of guys makes the Imps give zero fucks so they might not view it as a loss
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>>45384680
While the Tau don't have Psykers, a Culexus is still a pit of bowel-emptying terror to them....also she prolly obliterated Aun'Vas soul into the bargain.
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>>45390565

Yep.

Lord Admiral Ravensburg had fifty concubines in his quarters in battleship Divine Right. Imperium is pretty much rotten to the highest level, a Kor'O wasting space and resources on something like that would be impossible and unthinkable.
>>
>plot armor everywhere
>almost no explanation why they won, only MUH SUPERIOR TACTICS and MUH TECHOLOGY THE BEST
>always the bestest ever who defeated the MOST EVAR guys srsly
>still not enough, have to make everyone else a drooling retard to even have a chance of winning
>constant retcons that only inflate the enemies number and wank over Tau importance with no explanation
Tau are literally weeb shit: the faction. Horrible weeb aesthetics coupled with that quality anime wank fest plot. And it's obviously working because Taufags are complete cancer if you aren't a Taufag yourself.
But the funniest thing is, it's only wank so that the fans can circlejerk over their models. It means fuck all in the fluff
>Tau are the only faction without a victory condition
>every other faction is on the verge, there is no way they expand and advance technologicaly before one or two of the factions start steamrolling the galaxy
>mfw the fanboys always circlejerk how the Imperium always sends the biggest evar massive Crusade to wipe out the Tau Empire, but there are less or a similiar number of Imperial forces in it than campaigns to retake a single fucking planet (Vraks, Pandorax, Fenris)
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>>45392251

The books were shitty writing for sure, but man, all the tears from all these Imperial fanboys, it was worth it.
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>>45392361
>Imperial fanboys

You mean people who actually respect the integrity of the setting rather than masturbate to Commander Blueberry while inserting pulse blastcannons up their buttholes.
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>>45392251

>victory condition

Meme. The only realistic victors are the Tyranids, Chaos, and Necrons. The Imperium is doomed to be extinction. And you know it.
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>>45392251
there were two good parts in the book

the stormsurge crew getting killed by falling rocks
and the eversor surfing a drone while trying to take on eight named characters solo
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>>45392401
Eldar win if they destroy Slaanesh with the help of Ynnead.

Tyranids and Necrons can technically win at the same time. Just store number of soft meaty bodies in statis fields and wait for Tyranids to eat everything else and bugger off.
>>
What if the Tau confusion over killing "Slaanesh", it is actually a foreshadowing? If the Tau are an Eldar project...
>>
>>45392361
>everyone who doesn't suck Tau cock is a salty Imperial
Every fucking thread. I wonder if this is something Tau fans use, or is it just one guy frotting at the mouth that somebody dared imply that his blue fucks aren't as great as his animes.

>>45392401
Lol no.
The Imperium can still turn this around. The psychic STC, the Emperor reborn, primarchs returning,... Same goes for Orks and Eldar. Ghaz is trying to unite the biggest WAAAGH ever and is the prophet of Gork and Mork. The Eldar have Ynnead and other prophecies for themselves, one of those could work. And the Dark Eldar will just piggyback on them.
Just because Tau lack any means to survive the next 300 years, doesn't make every other race winning a meme.
>>
>>45392681

One of Eldrad's prophecies says Tau will surpass the Eldar's greatest feats so Tau victory is much more likely than the Eldar winning.
>>
>>45392713
Only if they abandon communism, which is never happening.
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>>45392727

The prophecy said nothing about that and anyway Tau are no more communist than Imperium.
>>
>>45392681

>The Imperium can still turn this around.

It won't. What part of "in the Grim Darkness of 40k" don't you get?
>>
Don't tell the Imperials, but the Tau have on their hands the only Forge World specialized in making anti-Tyranid fleet torpedoes.
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>>45380128
Its been 10 that 40k is not satire anymore, it is actually serious now to cater to teenagers now.
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>>45392681

They can make every star near them go supernova.
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>>45392768
Was this world on the third sphere that is now currently cut off from the rest of their empire? Because if it's on the Second sphere it makes the Ad mech actions even more retarted.
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>>45380878
>>45381033
OK, is that canon or just ass pulling?
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>>45390565
>or even more stupid orks

yoo wot git
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>>45392384
>>45392681

Yea sure no salty Imperials at all
>>
>>45392713
Because his prophecies are always reliable. Or him.

>>45392750
>in the Grim Darkness of 40k only Chaos, Necrons or Tyranids can win because I say so
Don't dismis Eldar and the Imperium just because the Tau suck

>>45392817
>quoting some experimental tech as standard
>implying Tau super tech comes even close to Imperium or Orks, let alone Necrons and Eldar
>>
>>45393016

I don't dismiss the Eldar. Only the Imperium. Even the Orks have better chances to win than the Imperium.
>>
>>45393026
Omnicopaeia jumpstarts the evolution, the Emperor respawns and once again leads the Imperium. Maybe some primarchs return to help him. The chances seem really better if Chaos can't fuck with you anymore.
>>
>>45393101
>Omnicopaeia

Heard that it's deep underground on some Daemon World and the AdMech is preparing a full-blown invasion of the place.
>>
>>45393101

Omnicopaeia is in a DAEMON world. The Chance of it being corrupted is 9,9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999%
>>
>>45393115

It's a DAoT device (and we know how much their tech helped them) from a daemon world. If the Admech secures it, using it will result in "you are the daemons".
>>
>>45393115
>>45393122
>>45393137
It doesn't matter. Even that it exists gives the Imperium a way of instantly achieving their win condition. Even if it fails, the Imperium then must keep the Emperor alive long enough to achieve their evolution.
That they have a few ways is enough. Tau don't have a single one.
>>
>>45393181

The psychic awakening is Chaos' win condition though Imperials believe otherwise. The psychic awakening is already happening and it results in daemons.
>>
>>45392856
It's canon that the only time you saw Ad Mec in the books, they were NOT helping the Imperium, if that's what you're asking
>>
>>45393137
Big pity.

>AdMech takes severe losses but they pull it off. They conquered and purged a Daemon World and now they scour every square nanometer of the planet.
>Magos Delphan Gruss finally finds it. For the first time he gets to shed a single manly tear of joy.
>Starts examining it and tries to access it.
>Something is happening. Something not right.
>The Omnicopaeia is literally infested with daemonic entities to the point the darn thing is slowly mutating into something scary.
>The AdMech is forced to blow it up.
>In frustration they literally blow up the whole planet.
>AdMech is collectively depressed because everything they did was for nothing.
>Magos Delphan, suffering from a literal blue screen of death caused by despair, commits suicide.

I don't like the AdMech for the whole hoarding thing and not letting anyone to get better toys because of that, but I'd actually feel sorry for the rust buckets if that ever happens to them.
>>
>>45383530
>Why ever send the invisible, intangible, undetectable assassin whose only presence send anyone not a robot into irrational panic and that only need a touch to steal the life force fo the target and kill it.

The psychic negation is just a bonus. Culexus are the best assassin at straight infiltration and destroy already. If they sent another of them instead of a callidus Shadowsun would be a corpse by now. Callidus are better in those situation in which you need someone replaced and a traitor in the mist of the enemy ranks to spread disinformation or gain intel. But Culexus are miles better in straight up killing.
>>
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>>45381755
Agreed.

As a guard player, it's such a catch-22. The fluff is utter, utter garbage but the crunch is deliciously sweet.

>Artillery formation with vox spotters
>HoC specifically for gunline commanders
>Oh hey, that's a nice (high-value unit) you've got there, be a shame if my dirt-cheap outflanking lascannon sentinels were to happen to it
>wait, you can fit HOW MANY tanks in this formation? And if they're organized correctly THEY ALL HAVE BS4 AND YOU HAVE TO REROLL ARMOR PEN?

As for the fluff, I'm vaguely reminded of the Winter War-superior numbers, supplies, and even equipment lambasted by awful generaling and excellent defence-in-depth. Perhaps somewhere upstairs the Damocles Gulf was judged to be a 'low-priority' combat zone, so the warmaster in charge was some blueblooded inbred who thinks Kubrik Chenkov is his spiritual liege (this might also explain the lack of higher-end Imperial forces such as Titans and Space Marines in greater numbers). Sure, Pask is present, but he's a field commander, and an ARMOUR officer at that. According to fluff by Dan Abnett (who if I am not mistaken is one of the more respected writers), Cavalry officers must, no matter their rank, defer to infantry officers in the same theatre of combat (since tanks are ultimately there to support infantry). This resulted in the odd situation where a general was subordinate to a colonel during the battle of Vervunhive. Mind you, that colonel was Gaunt, but the point stands.

All of Pask's genius is wasted because his boss is a drooling moron and tells him to go hunt enemy tanks when there are ten million more useful things he could be doing. Fortunately, like anything else that happens to it in this book, the Imperium can survive the loss.

Even despite all this, it's still poorly written. There's a reason I called it utter garbage.
>>
>>45379694
>He may hate the Ethereals and how the Empire is currently, but he does have loyalty to his race
That's like hating Hitler but supporting the Wehrmacht, it doesn't make sense.
>>
>>45379627
Retcons. Plain and simple.

>"Each must find their own way. If those in our heartland had witnessed the savageries of the void as have we they would know this. The hand of each of the starfarers is turned against the other; none will join their strength together just to see their ancient enemies prosper. Neither should we."
>>
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>>45379627

Farsight Enclave and the Tau Empire are Battlebrothers.
>>
>>45394566
Farsight Enclave is a supplement to Tau Empire, so of course they're Battle Brothers, they're the same codex.
And crunch =/= fluff.
>>
>>45394517
>Every revolution in history doesn't make sense because you can't hate the leaders without hating everyone under them
>>
>>45394589
Farsight hates the Ethereals, right? So what is he doing protecting their conquests and saving the asses of their soldiers? I thought the whole point of Farsight and his enclaves was rejection of the Empire.
Unless of course, GW is retconing it for $$$.
>>
>>45394609
He is doing it for the people of Empire, not for its leaders
>>
>>45394609
>saving the asses of their soldiers
This. He doesn't care abou the Ethereals, but he's still fire caste. The loss of that planet would mean less than a dozen ethereals dead but millions of Fire Warriors life lost.
>>
>>45394609
Farsight rejects the mentality of the Ethereals and their take on the Greater Good.

Whereas the Tau Empire's non-Tau species can't say anything, the Farsight Enclaves are more like a democratic state where every non-Tau can actually say something and they will be listened to.

Also he cares about non-Ethereals. Damn the Ethereals sans Aun'Shi.
>>
>>45394625
Isn't protecting the Damocles Gulf furthering the agenda of the Ethereals, and strengthening them as well?
>>
>>45394652
If the Tau Empire lost there, there'd be no Tau left to save.
>>
>>45394666
Wouldn't they just lose the Gulf tho? If it was T'au or something in the First Sphere I could understand, but a Third Sphere expansion isn't survival of the race, it's just expansion.
>>
>>45394684
This
Although the imperium sent a Large force to retake Prefectia (big enough to retake the planet 10 times over) it was no way big enough todestroy the Tau as a species they would maybe able to advance into the second sphere but the first sphere worlds are really well defended!
>>
I don't know who I hate more: The Admech for being fucking retard toaster fuckers, or the Tau for being... well, Tau.
>>
>>45390593
>>45381759
>>45384622
Don't forget the Fabricator General IS a High-Lord of Terra, so its not like the Imperium gets to completely boss them around; though the survival of the Imperium is ultimately his concern just as much as the other lords because he is part of it.
>>
>>45395551
That would be the best end e scenario in my opinion.
The imperium retake the world but the defences beyond the third sphere makes a successful offensive unrealistic.
>>
>>45393202
Failing to achieve it is keeping Chaos in power. The Emperor dying is instant win for Chaos. But if they achieve it then Chaos is fucked, because now only those that willingly fall to Chaos wil empower it.
>>
>>45394639
>Whereas the Tau Empire's non-Tau species can't say anything, the Farsight Enclaves are more like a democratic state where every non-Tau can actually say something and they will be listened to.
No it's not. Everything we've seen of the Enclaves is that it's LESS democratic since it's a militant state ruled entirely by and for the Fire Caste
>>
>>45398470
Learn the lore dumbass. More psykers=more possession and more daemons. Humans have never been able to control their psychic powers the way Eldar do.
>>
>>45379072
>I've thought the Imperium would have learned from all those humbling deafeats
>implying

It's not a humbling defeat, it's just another day in the Imperium.

And if there's one thing about days in the Imperium you can count on, it's countless humans marching to their deaths.
>>
>>45398717

The best caste.
>>
>>45394548
>FTL drive
>retconned
>Montka and Kauyon
>retconned by Stormsurges and Riptides, but still used as titles of books

If you have to retcon a race this much what does it tell you about the faction to begin with? Tau were ill-executed and setup poorly. Meanwhile, Oldcrons were just fine but they decided to make them Newcrons since that's the only way to make them interesting, just like big robots that sell well and stupid space opera drama for the caste "greater good" race is "interesting".

The fuck is this, Picard and Janeway Borg time?
>>
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>>45398794
Fuck you too :^)
>>
>>45398953
>"The Imperium! How mighty its aspect! How far-reaching its boundaries! As one world dies ten more are brought into the fold. Fear us, for we count the lives of planets, not men!"
>>
>>45399210

"My tanks have names, my men have numbers."
>>
>>45399117
That page doesn't really suggest that Humans will be fine once they ascend to a race of Psykers, though, by all forms of logic the dangers of Chaos will still be there, or perhaps even worse, and the "psychic evolution," also consists of Humanity learning how to shield itself from the Ruinous Powers, not just some stupid insta-resistance after they procreate enough psychic sensitives.
>>
>>45399025
>2nd sphere of expansion was at lights speed
>3rd sphere has created even faster forms of travel
Gee I wonder what is faster than light speed
>>
>>45399311
>start of psychic mastery and a new golden age
>evolving sufficient strenght to withstand the dangers of the Warp without him
You can argue semantics if you want, but that implies to me that humanity would be able to withstand Chaos.
>>
>>45392727
>Tau
>communism
Tau have a caste system that would give the most conservative hindu an earthshattering orgasm. It's almost impossible to be less communistic.
>>
>>45393122
So almost 90% sure it is fine? Assemble the host, we have demon world to raid!
>>
>>45399753
Hinduism is a religion or way of leading ones life. Communism is a form of government. They can be intertwined.
>>
Given the narrative of the setting, the Imperium have nowhere to go but down. Humanity may survive, but the Imperium itself will go progressively worse and possibly divided. It's the fall of the Roman Empire again.
>>
>>45399831
>caste system where there are castes that are better than others
>Clear distinction between members in a caste
>Equality doesn't exist your treatment depends on your usefulness

Where the fuck do you get the idea that tau are communist from?
>>
The Tau Empire is someone's pet project. Whoever it is, it is making a race that it's very efficient, well organized, technological and scientifically savvy, and more important, designed to be resilient to Chaos corruption. My bet is the Eldar or an Old One.
>>
>>45400123

They are characterized as communist, because they place no much value or pride on social classes, wealth, and status. The lowest worker of the Caste Earth is just as part of the machinery as the greatest scientist. They are also post-scarcity in some ways, which makes the accumulation of wealth pointless. The main division is their eugenic caste. T
>>
>>45400312
>no status advancement
Extremely wrong
>Post scarcity
They aren't
>Treat people well
Oh gee not being a dickbag = communism you are an american aren't you.
>>
>>45400418

They don't get a bigger apartment for being of highest status. Each one is just another cog, smaller or greater, of the bigger machine. Willing to sacrifice themselves for the Collective over the Individual. The only exception is the Ethereals.
>>
>>45399552

But in practise we see an event called "The Great Awakening" happening at the end of the timeline, and that event means daemons errywhere and psykers popping into warpgates.

It's like how Arbaal the Undefeated went on to be undefeated and looking to challenge Khorne for years, but then met Vlad von Carstein in the End Times and got his head chopped off. No more undefeated.

Or how Settra was supposed to rouse Tomb Kings for war to continue the conquest of the world, but ended up having his kingdom and subjects taken by Nagash. Not everyone can win and sometimes all the hype turns out to be nothing.
>>
>>45400477
>Don't get a bigger apartment
Earth caste have been given more resources and the best available equipment to pursue their goals after proving themselves.
Fire caste are given better equipment when they prove themselves on the battle field and pass training proving they can use it.
Watercaste are given better ships (with better living standards), and sent on more important missions when they have proven their skills at negotiating.
Air caste no one cares about in fluff and are pretty much never mentioned but presumable they get comfier chairs to pilot in.

What this all means is that if you are proven capable you are given better things than those around you as you have shown you are capable of using these things than others.
>>
>>45401091

None of those are quality of life rewards. It's like saying being an officer gives you more status and prestige. Yes, you get paid more and get more respect, but it also comes with more responsibility.

There is no such thing as a Tau hedonist or planetary governor, except maybe the Ethereals. And even they are pretty spartan and disciplined about their lifestyle.

Trying to project human luxuries onto an alien race is folly.
>>
>>45399429

Light speed would still take them hundreds to thousands of years for an expansion sphere. Star systems don't exist that close together in the rims of galaxies.
>>
>>45402372

It's a star cluster. The density of stars is far higher than normal. One can easily have over a 1,000,000 stars.
>>
>>45399117
You're still wrong dumbass, read your own fucking page

NOTHING you or anyone has said suggests that a psychic awakening will allow them to resist chaos any more than they do now. You are a dense fucking HFY nigger if you believe otherwise.
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