>>45368607 But that's exactly what happens. I don't mean this Curse of the Wulfen stuff, I mean when Magnus threw a ball and eleven companies of yiffs went to fetch, the Fang was penetrated like a bitch in heat. It seems like a quick counterattack would have been a Mutually-Assured-Destruction scenario.
>>45370364 No big loss. Bjorn disliked the genetic experiments that the Space Wolf guy was doing, he felt it made them weaker by removing a bunch of the shit that makes the Space Wolves the best warriors among the Astartes.
>>45368476 >Bombarding the planet that annually sinks isles and new ones pop out from eruptung volcanos all over the planet This is like the third/fourth time the planet has being bombed and invaded, it'll most likely won't be the last, now the DA will be on serious for bombarding fenris under daemonic counsel.
>>45371326 So? If the Sons of Russ had actually had stable geneseed and could've made more chapters, maybe they wouldn't have needed the wulfen in the Eye of Terror. Maybe there would have been so many Astartes Prases, the 13th Black Crusade would have faltered a lot earlier than it did.
>>45371376 >Fucking Gulliman was able to take Alpharius for Christs sake...the wolf king is the worst bitch of them all. It was never confirmed, for al we know Alpharius is still alive, he was "killed" on one or more occasions during the heresy, and let's not forget Guilliman felled by silting his throat with a poisoned blade, rather tha n being chopped to slices by Fulgrim.
At he was aided by his own bodyguards, you know the most dangerous warriors the alpha legion had to offer, also Guilliman was k.o. by kor phaeron and the Lion put into a coma by a non astartes.
>>45371397 Cadia the planet was under traitor control the whole imperial space fleet dominated the auatem, the imperial fleet could just bombard Cadia into submission and imperial reclaimer force would just retake the planet, Cadia has been captured by traitors in the past and then the imperial just came back and retake it.
>>45371522 The wulfen mutation isn't as rampant as the black rage or the dark angles traitorous nature, and even then they can just revert back unless they spend all the time in the warp, like the wulfen, if you take into account the advantages out weight the disadvantages.
The only real flaw with the Space Wolves gene seed is that it's only compatible with people from Fenris, plus all their organs and implants function fine. They may be few in number at least in regards to successors, but their gene seed is extremely potent giving them abilities that no other group of Astartes could hope to have.
>>45371660 The Space Wolves have to stress having constant control over 'the 13th Wolf.' It's never directly said whether you can go back or not, but during the Test of Morkai it's said that 'those who fail to [fight the dehumanizing effects of the Canis Helix] become entirely feral and stay in the wild, hunting future Aspirants.' That, and the fact that the Space Wolves are always at risk of 'reverting to their bestial nature' implies that once you go feral you can't go back - probably because once you are feral, you don't really have the sense to or remember who you once were.
Either way, the Dark Angels 'traitorous nature' is not a legitimate gene-seed mutation. And I would argue that long-term stability without risk of losing control is worth far more than some temporary benefits of strength or skill, especially when you throw half of your damn marines away before they even get to the point where it's at its full effect - the difference in size between Blood Claw packs and Grey Hunters is made through battle losses.
>>45372628 >Muh psykers powers wouldn't allow them to arrive
If Magnus was so great how come he didn't see his own fuck up before happening? And the thousand sons did know, they were combat ready when the wolves began the drop pod assault, it speaks against their supposed mastery over war when they couldn't turn the tide
>b-but they were cheating with sisters of... They were astartes, the were supposed to be the epitome of warriors and then they fall like leafs against "savage faggots" even when they were aided by daemons.
>>45368097 >yfw the blood ravens are present and complete the thousands sons revenge >yfw marines malevolent show up to be glorious bastards >yfw the minotaurs show up to finish their symbolic transition of becoming the new executioners >yfw the black templars and red scorpions show with righteous zeal to genocide mutants >yfw the salamanders show up and side with the yiffs so the two worst chapters can die at the same time
just kidding. these things would be too fun and cool. better just have the ultras show up for no reason
>>45374119 Not the person your replying to, however where are you getting all that from?
The old lore had SW surprise assaulting Prospero with the sisters of silence and custodes and literally bombing the shit out of them before anyone apart from Magnus new what was happening. Magnus also (because hes the biggest fail in the fluff) disables the air defenses. The Space Wolves had everything stacked in there favour and still took serious losses during the fight when it came to face to face fighting.
>>45374119 Not that Anon but I'll add in some stuff:
Magnus did manage to see everyone's role in the Heresy, but unfortunately Tzeentch stopped him from seeing his own, and this was brought up by him to I think Ahriman on why he initially ignored his Legion after Prospero was destroyed, causing him to decide once and for all whether his legion should be loyalists or not.
As for the battle, Magnus initially wanted to let the Wolves win by sending away most of the civilians and blocking the Corvidae's ability to see into the future and where the ships were coming from. This left the 1K Sons little to no time to shield the cities from orbital bombardment and made the Wolves very surprised.
Though before Russ commenced the attack, he tried to hail Magnus through what he thought was Magnus's spy, but it was really a spy planted by Chaos to rouse Russ's feelings about Magnus.
Not to mention Magnus tried to stop his captains from defending Prospero, blaming himself for accidentally destroying the Emperor's webway during his attempt to warn him about Horus, Fulgrim, etc and trying to make sure the Wolves wouldn't be wiped out so they could help fight in the Heresy.
Then as the battle went on and possibly due to the Warp sensitive area of the planet, both sides started to mutate, the Thousand Sons turning into the Flesh Changed, while the Wolves turned into Wulfen.
Ultimately, the Burning/Sacking of Prospero ended when Magnus finally joined the battle, gathered the survivors, and gave them instructions on how to escape. He then stalled Russ and the wolves long enough for them to escape before Russ killed him.
Some time after that, the Khan went to Prospero to find out what had happened and was convinced by the shade of Magnus to join the Emperor and not join Horus.
Then after that, Magnus and Ahriman took a trip through the Warp to watch the Heresy unfold to decide if the Thousand Sons should left the planet of the sorcerer's and join the Emperor or to join Horus.
>>45374381 Afterwards Magnus joins Horus but mainly focused on trying to make the right decisions on how to protect his Legion, which leads up to Ahriman casting the Rubric destroying/saving nearly the entire Legion.
After being cast out, Ahriman then wandered the galaxy looking for ways to:
A) Return to normal
B) Become a Chaos god to reverse everything and set things right
Some time afterwards, Magnus learns of the Sons of Russ program and decides to stop it before it can work.
He gathers his legion and convinces them to sack Fenris as revenge and sends them towards the planet, and uses himself as bait to drag the majority of the Chapter to a deserted planet counting on the Wolves' hatred for him to blind them.
Fenris was attacked but the Wolves survived thanks to Wulfen and Dreadnoughts but the geneseed needed to create the Sons of Russ was destroyed along with all notes on it and the Apoc who was making it.
Magnus and his sons fled losing a good bit of Legionaires but in the end, made better gains by stopping more Wolves from being made.
>>45374419 Prospero Burns (Space Wolves novel about the conflicts leading up to the Burning of Prospero) A Thousand Sons (Thousand Sons novel about the 1K Sons before, during, and after the burning) Ahriman: Thieves of Revelation (Set a little after the destruction of Prospero and shows what happened to them) Scars (White Scars novel about what the White Scars were doing during the Great Crusade and Heresy) Battle of the Fang (1K Sons and Space Wolves novel about Magnus attacking the Fang)
>>45374119 You do know the seeing the future in 40k is pretty difficult, don't you? I mean you can sort of guess it with Tarot readings or similar methods to give you a vague idea of whats coming, and if memory serves the Eldar can do it better than most humans, but actually seeing exact events in the future is pretty much impossible. Seriously, not even Tzeentch can pull it off.
>>45374119 While it sounds of serious BS, its Black Library nonsense at it finest. Its true though, before Russ arrived the Sons specializing in divination knew exactly where the Wolves fleet would breach the warp and could have easily positioned their fleet to murder Russ' fleet piece meal as each ship falls out of the warp just to face the entity of Magnus' fleet. This isn't even a new concept, Space Marine librarians like Tigerious have done this shit before.
So if Magnus did nothing but allow his legion to do their jobs Russ, along with his entire legion, would have been destroyed at the edge of the prospero system.
So in a sense yeah, Russ only got to prospero because Magnus let him. It was the result of BL trying to satisfy two autistic fanbases, and there by ruining a perfectly good story back in Index Astartes.
There is a reason everyone hates the battle of prospero now, Magnus became incredibly stupid, and Russ was never allowed to actually do something without Magnus having a "just as planned' line thrown in.
>>45371516 >killed at least one of the "missing" primarchs No, he didn't. It's never been revealed what happened to either of them, just implied that they did something bad enough to make Emps order their erasure from Imperial records.
>>45372628 >never confirmed That's part of the mystery, but most legions feared the wolves because of this, also when commenting about the matter Russ answered to the huskar guy that the invasion of prospero wasn't the first time astartes fought astartes.
>In a war that only happened because Magnus didnt allow his legion to literally kill the wolves before they even made landfall. The landfall would happened anyway, the thousand sons didn't had a "lol one shot every body dies" weapon and the wolves were expert on fighting highly defended worlds, that's why they were send after the thousand sons.
>The amount of Primarchs he has been beaten by changes that, at this rate Fulgrim fits that title 10X over, with real confirmations. He beated Angron by cornering him on a pit with his wolves surrounding him, world eaters fags like to whine and cry about their victory but the truth is Angron would had die before killing Russ, meanwhile the wolves would had just pick out the remaining world eaters with Russ coordinating them, while the world eaters weren't a coordinated force and were doing wathever they wanted, the wolves are a more organised force, also did you expected GW letting BL kill primarchs when the canon is already established? Are you stupid?
It doesnt matter how "scary" a rumor is. Its not confirmed and WE know that he is just a puss, losing every major conflict with a primarch.
The fleet shows how stupid you are. Fleets don't drop out of the warp in full. Due to the nature of warp travel they drop individually. All the Thousand Sons would need to do is position their entire fleet at the exit point of the wolves fleet. Over the course of a day or so each ship, as Imperial fleets usually do, would drop one - two ships at best, against entire fleets. they would be fish in a barrel. So yes, the Sons WOULD have been able to break the wolves.
As for the night of the wolf, Angron wold have died, but the World Eaters would have decimated the Wolves. To imagine the wolves would have done anything but walk away crippled beyond compare is laughable. The trade would have been Angron for the cost of the vast majority of his legion, at that moment Leman chose to retreat, not only pussing out of his threat to end Russ, but also surrendering the field entirely.
Gosh, wolf and son fags are the worst, read the lore and stop quoting stupid shit.
>It doesnt matter how "scary" a rumor is. Its not confirmed and WE know that he is just a puss, losing every major conflict with a primarch He first part, that's your opinion and he did win on prospero, he didn't lose against Alpharius otherwise he would be dead and he did play Angron like he wanted, leaving him on disadvantage.
>The fleet shows how stupid you are. Fleets don't drop out of the warp in full. Due to the nature of warp travel they drop individually. I'll need you to cite your sources on this one, I'll not comment on what could be just an un-sourceable reference.
>As for the night of the wolf, Angron wold have died, but the World Eaters would have decimated the Wolves. To imagine the wolves would have done anything but walk away crippled beyond compare is laughable. The trade would have been Angron for the cost of the vast majority of his legion, at that moment Leman chose to retreat, not only pussing out of his threat to end Russ, but also surrendering the field entirely. Most of that's just again your opinion the writer could have just over sue the wolves and kill the WE with five guys, the world eaters aren't even competent shock troops and easily mislead, for example in the stratagem audiodrama few ultramarines soloed a bigger force of WE, this proves they are inefficient and isn't based on personal opinion.
> Gosh, wolf and son fags are the worst, read the lore and stop quoting stupid shit. Now you show your colors butthurt shit poster.
>>45385626 >The fleet shows how stupid you are. Fleets don't drop out of the warp in full. Due to the nature of warp travel they drop individually. If this were true then Horus in theory could have soloed the whole loyalists without even trying and without any support from the other legions, or They couldn't attack Terra for the same reason.
>>45387992 >Horus had access to a bunch of the galaxies greatest masters of divination? What are daemon princes of Tzeench, greater daemons of Tzeench and kairos fateweaver?, what's the davinite witches?, what is most of the word bearers? What is "every action is written on the warp" catch phrase every chaos followers like to say?
Also not even the Emperor had true sight of the future, since he couldn't divine all this, why would the thousand sons be any better than the 40/50 000 year old psykers? Don't glorify the thousand sons, even if they were combat ready they would died anyway with the combined force of wolves, sisters and custodes.
>>45387754 Imagine the size of a solar system, now mark one area, out of the whole thing, as the exit point. For an imperial force or horus to pull off an ambush like that he wold need to know the EXACT exit point, because ships out of the warp still move like shit, taking days to move from planet to planet. Often fleets exit in the outer rims of the system, far from any nearby forces to intercept before they all exit the warp, and then fly into system.
The reason the Thousand Sons can pull that "I got their location" shit off is because they can sense and predict where the exit point is and be able to position their fleet well in advanced. Besides them only the most powerful of psychers can pull that shit off.
Eldrad and the eldar can pull it off every now and then, as can the Ultra marine guy tigerious who was able to detect an ork waggh. But these are some of the most powerful psychers in the galaxy.
So a bunch of Thousand Sons being able to do it is in the realm of possibility, the likes of Horus or other legions, far more difficult. That is the difference.
>For an imperial force or horus to pull off an ambush like that he wold need to know the EXACT exit point It's funny because Horus actually could because of their daemon patronage knowledge, he could even summon warp storms since those began appearing everywhere, thus slowing the loyalists advance.
>The reason the Thousand Sons can pull that "I got their location" shit off is because they can sense and predict where the exit point is and be able to position their fleet well in advanced. Besides them only the most powerful of psychers can pull that shit off. Funny thing because most of them did lose the future sight before the invasion, they believed the responsible was Magnus but it could also be Tzeench, and you can't use your powers when most of the guys turned into chaos spawns during the invasion because Tzeench thought it was funny.
>Eldrad and the eldar can pull it off every now and then, as can the Ultra marine guy tigerious who was able to detect an ork waggh. But these are some of the most powerful psychers in the galaxy. Eldar can because the have been doing it since millions of years, tigurius can because plot demands it and not even the grey knights belive their own visions of the future, remember how the previous supreme grand master was supposed to kill forever Mortarion? And the grey knights are better than the HH thousand sons.
>So a bunch of Thousand Sons being able to do it is in the realm of possibility, the likes of Horus or other legions, far more difficult. That is the difference. It's when you have Tzeench psychicly cock blocking you and forcing you to fall in order to pay your primarch debt of souls, wich of course include your and those of your brothers, while also mutating you and your friends for Laugh's and giggles.
>>45387613 >> Your opinion is wrong, because my opinion.
Holy shit, like holy shit thats the best you have?
>I'll need you to cite your sources on this one
So you havent even read the goddamn books your ranting about, in a series where this is mentioned? Ok, good to know. 10/10 Also Battlefleet Gothic, though your probably too young for that shit.
>writer could have just over sue the wolves
But he didn't, Instead he wrote it the way its described in the book, which again, based on your previous statements show you haven't read them anyway, so you didnt read this part either. Also, learn to use the word "sue" right.
>the world eaters aren't even competent shock troops
Confirmed for not reading the Horus Heresy Source books, where they are, easily.
>Holy shit, like holy shit thats the best you have? Well Russ did force Magnus to run, did have Angron were he wished and wasn't killed by Alpharius so the point stands.
> So you havent even read the goddamn books your ranting about, in a series where this is mentioned? Ok, good to know. 10/10 Also Battlefleet Gothic, though your probably too young for that shit Well I do have read it, but i don't remember any bit about that, it isn't even mentioned on the lexicanum and they just copy and paste those things.
> But he didn't, Instead he wrote it the way its described in the book, which again, based on your previous statements show you haven't read them anyway, so you didnt read this part either. Also, learn to use the word "sue" right. Yes, he didn't and that's the point, Russ can't kill or win against anyone because the fluff is already written in stone, wich is why also neither Angron or Alpharius killed Russ, it's not meant to be.
>Confirmed for not reading the Horus Heresy Source books, where they are, easily. But I have and outside their own books the world eaters are beyond incompetent, they had the upper hand against the ultramarines with help of other traitors and in the end they were defeated by Guilliman thanks to the proto codex astartes.
I mean how stupid can you be? Like seriously? Just because I don't share your opinion doesn't mean I'm stupid, you're just too biased towards the world eaters.
>>45389088 The only solution I can see is not filling in the gaps, therefore avoiding this shit. What they should do is just write about ultimately unimportant people (i.e. Gaunt's Ghosts, Eisenhorn, all those books about bumfuck Second Founding Chapters).
>>45391478 There used to be no such thing as the Thunder Warriors, it was just early space marines wearing the incomplete Mk.1 armor. However this was a part of Heresy-era lore that hadn't been used to make the Emperor look retarded evil yet, so the Thunder Warriors were fluffed as proto-marines who got stuffed full of hormones and genetic material to beef them up well beyond what their successors would be capable of, but which also made them go insane and berserk out after awhile. So the Emperor had them all killed off once he could supplant them with space marines apart from various handfuls who continued to cause trouble all the way up to the Heresy years because the Emperor can't take out his fucking trash without cocking it up.
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