>mfw people still don't realize that WotC intentionally ruined Modern to give people more reasons to move to their new not yet announced Eternal format and buy Eternal Masters
R8 my brew:
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Radha, Heir to Keld
1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Eternal Witness
2 Restoration Angel
Instants and Sorceries: 16
4 Faithless Looting
4 Path to Exile
3 Life from the Loam
1 Oona's Grace
4 Gifts Ungiven
Other Spells: 7
3 Molten Vortex
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Seismic Assault
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Trading Post
2 Raging Ravine
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Academy Ruins
1 Kessig Wolf Run
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Stony Silence
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Celestial Purge
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
>No Lingering Souls to flashback.
>No Primeval Titan.
>No Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite.
>Life From The Loam to get you back land you shouldn't need on your fourth turn.
>Not having Spellbomb on your Sideboard.
I mean some bits work, Eternal Witness and Faitless Looting work very well, but it's a bit too clunky to go finding lots of lands and burn the opponent out with Molten Vortex.
Build regular Gifts, man.
Why aren't you playing Hedron Alignment Combo /tg/?
>This was a bit of an epiphany for me. I knew you had to mulligan a lot in the format and I adjusted my play as such for the event, but I didn’t truly appreciate or understand how much until Sunday of the Pro Tour. The best way to get an edge in the format was to hope to play against people who had unplayable decks or that those who had made a good deck choice wouldn’t mulligan often enough.
>The nature of the Modern format is such that in most or all of the matchups you play, the influence of a single card in your hand is enormous. I know that if I play Infect against an Affinity or a Collected Company deck that I will have a much easier time winning if I draw Blighted Agent versus when I do not. It’s just so good against those decks, and they play little-to-no removal. Or look at Eye of Ugin in the Eldrazi deck—every matchup is better for them when they have that card in their opening hand, and the rest of the draws simply aren’t anywhere near as good.
>In most of the matchups I playtested in Modern, the game ended on turn 4. That’s insane! If the game ends on turn 4, you simply don’t have time to draw out of a risky keep. This is untrue of Standard, Draft, and Sealed, where you often play a match where both decks are slow and cumbersome. For that reason, you can keep a wider range of opening hands, because the cards you start with don’t hold all the power over how the game is decided.
tldr; Modern is shit because it's all opening hand coin flips due to the format being so impossibly fast.
>Now, how to beat Eldrazi?
>I don’t know.
Eldrazi literally beats Vintage decks. Eye of Ugin is ramping harder in Modern than Black Lotus does. Eye into Mimic + Mimic requires the same mana provided by Lotus Island into Mimic + Mimic. Phyrexian mana is also playing a part in the stupidity because it's also fast mana.
It's a sad state of affairs when a Modern deck is so singularly powerful that it beats out Vintage decks. Isn't MUD supposed to be the strongest deck of all time? How does it do against Eldrazi?
>listening to Owen "RTR/Theros standard was the best format ever" Turtenwald
He's right that Modern shouldn't be a PT format, but it has nothing to do with mulligans and everything to do with the fact that being a PT format means WotC has to create artificial rotation with bans to "keep things fresh" and give new cards a chance. Owen's just butthurt because he didn't win, because he's a fucking manchild.
>Eldrazi literally beats Vintage decks
The only reason Eldrazi beats Shops is because Shops is tuned for Vintage's super degenerate meta.
Eldrazi can't touch Oath or Storm or whatever Vintage's FotM Control deck is.
Modern is a format where winning is predicated on the matchup lottery, then preboard, the goldfish draw, and postboard the silver bullet sideboard draw
Skill ceiling is down in the Mariana Trench
If that were true, you wouldn't see the same people consistently winning. Except Patrick Dickmann's has been hugely successful in modern with surprising consistency, using multiple decks
and why is that?
because modern is a safe space format created for people who perceive interaction, control and combo as unfair and unfun
I was never happier than after this PT to actually sticking with Legacy
there is bullshit in this format as well, but at least it is exciting bullshit that requires some brain to grasp
You see the same people consistently winning because they're the ones consistently playing.
Most people don't have money to spend on traveling around to every GP or SCG event.
Winning with surprising consistency using multiple decks isn't exactly an argument FOR format complexity.
If players can switch between decks and there's enough carryover in decision making between all of them that they're always doing well, that would imply it's not difficult for the players to switch. Which means either the players are skilled in all of the myriad strategies and choices to make in every deck they've played, or their skills are universal because every deck is the same fucking thing
Not only this, but most people have jobs and a life outside of magic, that usually means you have other fiscal responsibilities than travelling around playing games.
Look at the typical sideboards across modern right now, that shows you how much each deck is the same fucking thing
>You see the same people consistently winning because they're the ones consistently playing.
Sounds like a healthy format in which more experienced/skilled players beat less experienced/skilled players, and not one determined by lucky draws.
>No Lingering Souls to flashback.
Lingering Souls is nice, but Molten Vortex should give me plenty of board control.
>No Primeval Titan.
I've never seen a Gifts or Loam deck with Titan. He's Valakut thing.
>No Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite.
I though about putting in the Unburial Rites combo, but I don't think it's that useful in Modern any more.
>Life From The Loam to get you back land you shouldn't need on your fourth turn.
I have 9 discard outlets to dump lands I draw with Loam. I'll have to playtest it before I can finalize the numbers on some cards though. I might shave a Gifts, a Loam, Radha, a Vortex, or Trading Post for Lightning Bolt or Helix and another Snapcaster.
>Not having Spellbomb on your Sideboard.
Eh. Some way to deal with pro-red and pro-white maindeck is nice.
You did remind me to run Nihil Spellbomb over Cage in the sideboard though.
>Haven't gone to an event in a long time
>Buy last minute entry
>Build Eldrazi Aggro at event before player meeting
>Win consistantly throughout event
>Drop after 8 hours because I have a life
>MFW 6-0 at an random event
>MFW I win whenever I want
I don't know how these fucking idiots killed a single fucking eldrazi like seriously build a deck with as many Jaces, Gideons, Chandras and Nissas you want and any eldrazi deck will just facefuck you to death this makes me really fucking mad.
I know, that's why I'm going to burninate them with Molten Vortex and Seismic Assault.
The problem with Gifts-Rites is that it's slow and it puts a bunch of dead cards in your deck. With the exception of Trading Post (which is jank next level tech and not core to the deck) none of the cards in my deck are dead unless you draw them in multiples.
That's the issue with traditional 4c Gifts in my experience. If you build too much around Gifts then eventually almost every card in the deck revolves around resolving Gifts and you just have a pile.
>New to modern
>Decide the new gauntlet mode on MTGO is a good way to get familiar with decks
>Join a queue
>Get given Goryo's Vengeance deck to play
>Have no idea what I'm doing
The gauntlet mode is a good idea in principle, but including combo decks with loads of different angles probably wasn't a smart idea.
>That's the issue with traditional 4c Gifts in my experience. If you build too much around Gifts then eventually almost every card in the deck revolves around resolving Gifts and you just have a pile.
WUBg Gifts doesn't really revolve around the combo, at least the way I've built it. Pretty much a slightly slower Junk deck filled with meme rhinos.
What? How the fuck could someone be so idiotic as to infer something so asinine from that statement? No you fucking retard, the point was that you'll recognize names in the top 8 because those names will play in more events.
The people who have bought lottery tickets a hundred times are far more likely to have won the lottery than someone who's only bought a ticket once or twice, that doesn't mean the lottery is won with the skills you've acquired in past lotteries.
No it's the exact opposite. Pro Tour players should be winning basically any games against the LGS-crowd, but they don't. The top 8 in PTOGW was full of second-rate memers. I mean, fucking Frank Lepore? PT top 8? Seriously?
People aren't complaining they don't have a high winrate in Modern, they're complaining they don't get to make interesting decisions for better or worse.
This is why someone could be as dumb as that. He ignores the players who don't top 8. He doesn't see Patrick Chapin attending every PT, but as soon as Chapin makes top 8, he'll say he got lucky. He ignores things that disprove him because it takes time and effort to disprove yourself, while focusing on the things that prove him right.
>Your probability of winning the lotto doesn't increase the more you play
Wow how can anyone be this stupid? You're telling me that someone with 1000000 tickets has the same chance of winning as someone with 1 ticket?
So I'm doing this thing, I just love Phyrexian Crusader and my meta is full of zoo and decks that have a difficult time removing this card from play.
What other sort of cards go in? A couple removal spells and some pump?
Also I am disgusted that I have a non-Conflux Noble Hierarch.
>Eldrazi literally beats Vintage decks.
It's 2 turns slower than Bazaar Dredge. Also, link to them beating Vintage decks? I find it hard to believe that it beats Shops only because Mishra's Workshop isn't even Legendary and a single Lodestone Golem shuts down the deck.
are you retarded?
Like seriously, do you have some kind of mental deficiency you're not telling me about? Because if you truly are disabled in every cognitive capacity as it seems, I promise you have my utmost sympathies, but if not, you should probably kill yourself
I'm honestly not sure whether you're rebutting me with sarcasm, or agreeing with me.
My own argument was (implicitly) that there's a confirmation bias when arguing for the skill-intensity of Modern, in seeing those common pro player faces at events being in the top 8 at several events being a result of their skill always (or significantly more often at least) putting them in top 8 of each individual event, rather than simply playing several events and being recognized when making it, but ignored when not.
>but as soon as Chapin makes top 8, he'll say he got lucky
This is the part that's tripping me up, because I don't see why someone who is arguing for the skill-intensity of a format would say that a top-level player got lucky when he made top 8
Unless this is a veiled dig at Chapin in which case it went way over my head, and I thought Chapin was still one of the pros sitting at the cool kids table? All I heard recently was that Ajani thing and that seemed innocuous to me. Why wouldn't Chapin appeal, after all.
Also I thought only Winter PT was Modern? Standard looks fine to me. Kinda low-power but I didn't see it as particularly braindead (I never really played Standard except the jankiest of tier 3 Séance decks in Inn/RTR, all hail Trostani populating Craterhoofs)
nah mate it's this ancient form of linguistic voodoo called
Autism is a natural shield against its manipulative ways, but someone boring and neurotypical might have smirked at it instead of going straight for the memeplay
I haven't played MODO for half a decade, and even then I just drafted. How's gauntlet mode work? You get handed any deck for which you own the cards? Or the (too cool to be true) option of just getting a random tier 1 or 2 deck from the format and playing it against another player who got a different one?
I think a gauntlet would probably work better if you could pick the deck you're playing and want to play against, but that might have a long queue time
Well. Bannings have been necessary since alpha to have a somewhat fair meta. I don't see a reason why WotC don't just ban the cards that are trouble-makers. They certainly didn't hesitate to remove splinter twin from the format entirely.
While you're not exactly wrong in what you're saying, you're misconstruing the analogy. It was implicit that you're ignoring every week they're not winning, and looking at whether or not a person has won the lottery at all in his lifetime. This was probably because it honestly could've been what you're saying, since the wording was ambiguous.
Essentially you're not looking at whether or not the lottery ticket owners win more percentage-wise each "drawing" of the lotto, you're looking at whether they have won more over the course of an entire season (or lifetime in the case of the lottery since that shit is NEVEREVER.jpg, but really any timeframe that creates a gap in total attempted lotto wins between the known entity grinders and the nameless faceless masses who just play when SCG is in town).
Okay, I just don't think I understand why the "other side" would say Chapin got lucky if he got in top 8, as opposed to him getting in the top 8 would be a result of his high level of skill, by extension arguing that a high level of skill is more important than variance when trying to make top 8.
Wouldn't him saying a skilled player making top 8 was just luck undermine his point? Or at least not further it?
I'm really sorry if I'm being stupid or obtuse I just don't think I get it senpaisama
Eye of Ugin
Glimpse of Nature
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Rite of Flame
Sword of the Meek
Tree of Tales
Force of Will
Cards legal in Modern are either:
1) A previously or currently standard legal set starting from Mirrodin up to the present day
2) Cards printed in a Modern Masters set
No it isn't, shut up. Eye of Ugin essentially generates 2 mana every time you want to cast an Eldrazi. It's entirely possible to "generate" 12 mana on turn one with it in Modern.
Or dredge, only processors could do something near it.
Lodestone is a 5/3 non-haste, and the deck barely plays spells, shops is made and tunned with 1 job. And only 1 job. Genocide unfair magic players. You play spells? Fuck you. You play on curve? Fuck you. You cheat spell costs? Fuck you.
Compare eldrazi, it plays creatures, yes cheap and nearly free, but creatures. Hell dragonstompy will take a huge nigger shit all over it because it can drop'n'pop a trini or similar ASAP.
They're playing with a share mana pool, clearly.
>Jace: no. no. good heavens, no. no you can't cast that. no. double no. n-o-p-e.
>Gideon: COME AT ME BRO. COME AT ME BRO. DOESN'T EVEN HURT BRO. ARE YOU EVEN TRYING BRO. DO YOU EVEN LIFT BRO.
>Nissa: ok, plant a lotus, channel for 19, leylines are in place, aaaaand...
If you'd finish reading that sentence he said that the skills Modern needs aren't related to actually playing the game; it's more about picking the right deck and knowing when to mulligan.
You don't play much Magic if you think that other formats are as hand/mulligan dependant as Modern. The questions are 1) how much of your deck do you see in the average game, and 2) how many decisions do you make along the way. This is only bearing in mind decks that make top 8 regularly.
1) ~10 cards since most games end on turn 4
2) Little to none
1) Probably 20-30 cards in the average game because the format is slow
2) Not all that many
1) If you're running Brainstorm/Ponder/Jace/Top, you can see most by the time the game ends
2) Depending on the deck it varies from little to none, all the way up to dozens
If you're both only seeing a tiny portion of your deck, a game between you isn't a comparison of decks, it's a comparison of hands.
>Say that other formats need you to be good at deckbuilding and sideboard building and have skill, while modern is only good at mulliganing and picking the broken deck of the day
You're retarded anon.
Shops is packed with tools to beat the hilariously unfair decks of vintage, that don't work very well against Eldrazi. Chalice, for example, is basically a dead card, since you can't possibly lock anything important out before they've played it.
Chalice just assrapes Modern due to the pressures of the format demanding you hug your curve low to the ground, there just hasn't been a deck as good as Eldrazi to take advantage of Chalice.
The format definitely deserves to be assraped by Chalice, but at the same time we're ill prepared to adapt to a Chalice-resistant curve since Eldrazi can just steamroll you for slowing down even a tiny bit. Card should be benched for a few years at the very least so that the cardpool can grow to handle it.
The card just shouldn't be legal in Modern. Wizards doesn't print land destruction anymore because being prevented from playing the game is "unfun", yet Chalice and Blood Moon are allowed to run rampant.
>but muh fair decks that use Chalice
Seriously what decks legitimately need Chalice right now other than Memedrazi?
At least with Blood Moon you can play around it by not fetching like a greedy shit, playing around Chalice means making your deck worse.
>per-game in Memedern
Go to a legacy event without graveyard hate, it'd be fun!
Or better, better, go to a vintage event, you got this eh? without grave or artifact hate.
>Seriously what decks legitimately need Chalice right now other than Memedrazi?
Affinity because Chalice for 1 on turn 2 after you've already cast all of your 1 mana spells shitstomps half the field.
Oh look, the OTHER deck with fast mana can abuse Chalice of the Void too!
My problem with Chalice stems from the fact that Modern is already bottlenecked uber hard on cantrips. Chalice on 1 simply fucks a ton of decks out of card draw. Tell me, in what format is that even remotely fair or pleasant to play against?
Knowing Wizards, they'll ban Chalice in April but leave Eye and Temple wide open for play.
>wasting card slots and mana when you're already able to circumvent interaction using Cranial Plating and/or Arcbound Ravager to shuffle damage and ignore the declare blockers step
Nigger you fucking what
bottlenecked on cantrips?
How about bottlenecked on 1cmc.
The only decks that could feasibly ignore getting shut down like this are the Cascade combo decks. Living End might have a chance, fight draft chaff with draft chaff and all, but Restore Balance? Yeah nah that shit's fucked.
Are you trying to imply that hate against broad archetypes like "graveyard" or "artifact" is a nobrainer in Legacy and Vintage? Because if so, then you're a fucking idiot. For like, twenty reasons you mongoloid, but here's one that should make you kill yourself:
You lose if you aren't packing that shit in Modern too (and much more dramatically, too) so even if eternal formats have braindead sideboards, Modern is at minimum (and there is not a single way you could ever in any way deny this) just as braindead wrt. sideboards as the other formats.
Additionally, there's significantly more choices to make in sideboard slots in Eternal formats than there are in Modern, but I think having to actually know anything would be too much to ask from you, so I'll give you a pass on toddler-tier logic. You'll probably catch onto that level of thinking when you get out of kindergarten.
So you're saying if I choose to not pack sideboard artifact hate at my local vintage event, I'm going to do just fine? You're saying that if I AVOID packing artifact hate, my opponent will SIDE OUT his powerful artifacts and I'll get a free win?
Boy howdy, I sure can't wait to get assfucked by Black Lotus and friends!
>Not packing grave hate and artifact hate in vintage
This is what happens when you don't pack load of artifact hate in vintage
This is what happens when you don't pack loads of gravehate on vintage
Daddy dredge teams up with every degenerate combo deck and they do a gang bang on you.
No I'm not saying that you inbred illiterate howler-monkey.
Even if you were right (and you aren't, but let's suppose we're in bizarro world where you're not the stupidest mongoloid in the world), and picking your sideboard takes NO skill whatsoever in Eternal formats, even if this were true, then you would still be a fucking moron because Modern requires the EXACT SAME anti-archetype hate, meaning it cannot in any conceivable notion of logic be LESS braindead than the Eternal formats, because the (non-)arguments you posited for Eternal formats being braindead exist in equal proportion in Memedern. It is either equally braindead, or more braindead.
With even the simplest of understanding of Legacy/Vintage, this would then by extension mean that any of the myriad factors (far more diverse metagame both in terms of how they function and thus how to beat them, as well as speed and resilience of the different decks functioning within their own engine archetype, far more maindeck tools to deal with linear strategies, far better card filtering and thus decrease of variance in drawing your sideboard cards allowing for more strategically important considerations than "lol Stony Silence auto-win gimme 4x dat shit aww yiss", and other things that would be blindingly obvious if you didn't have shit-for-brains) even if that is only the most minute, most infinitesimal of influences on sideboard decions, each of those factors individually would make your shitty garbage format more braindead wrt. deckbuilding and sideboarding.
Essentially you're the stupidest of niggers and you need to go shove a cactus up your vagina.
>hurrdurr there is only one possible choice to counter a given archetype durrrr
>murrrr I am smart wow rest in peace is so good in my 4c Loam I'll beat the dredge nazis for surrrrrrr
see, you guys are the reason people say /tg/ sucks at magic
Watch me do the Eldrazi trick with some old fucking cards that are all legal:
Darksteel Citadel, Memnite, Memnite, Frogmite, Frogmite, Frogmite, Frogmite.
Am I now going to magically win and be the new bully on the block? If so, why isn't anyone fucking playing this?
You suckers go all "whaaat, 3 creatures on T1!!!" while this is a risky fucking bullshit move you can only do if your follow up seals the deal.
And that follow up is entirely and solely fueled by Eldrazi Temple. Eye says fucking nope to colorless mana. Temple is the sol land with no drawback that enables them to seal the deal with TKS.
Without Eye the whole tribe dies. Without Temple we just won't see T2 TKS and T3 Smashers anymore.
You guys cry over WotC killing diversity but you want to eradicate a whole new tribal deck.
>>hurrdurr there is only one possible choice to counter a given archetype durrrr
Yes. There is another way of countering dredge, degenerate combodecks (that need gravehate AND spell hate, because spells and recurring them is broken in vintage) and shops.
Win t1 before they get to shit all over everything.
Oh wait. That kind of deck is also dogshit and the only deck that can win t1 in vintage without being a meme-tier joke of a deck is storm getting a godhand.
Here's what I'm getting from you:
>magic takes no skill
>sideboarding is easy
>building a sideboard isn't hard
>muh vintage artifact hate
>muh vintage graveyard strategy
>hurr durr nothing in this game takes skill, just put in 4 RiP and 4 Stony Silence
You're a special kind of absolute fucking cancer, aren't you
No, that's what you were saying you fucking mongoloid.
>"Poor choices in the 75 are more impactful in other formats than Modern"
>LMAO XD HAHAHAHAHA. Okay, okay. Go to a legacy event without graveyard hate, it'd be fun! Or better, better, go to a vintage event, you got this eh? without grave or artifact hate.
>"You're implying Legacy and Vintage take as little or less skill than Modern, which there is literally not a single way possible for Legacy or Vintage "
>lol u sure are dumb nigger wow you are absolute cancer
Griselcannon is pretty simple.
You want to get Griselbrand into the graveyard, and then get him out with Goryo's Vengeance. Then you draw cards using Nourishing Shoal exiling Worldspine Wurm until you can Through the Breach a Borborygmos Enraged (powered via SSG +/- mana rituals) and then start chucking lands for the kill.
Or something like that.
Double or triple temple, cocksucker
Banning temple would remove Eldrazi from the format which would be a bit sad, no one wants archetypes to just disappear
Banning Eye makes it less consistently explosive and oppressive, without killing it completely
Yes it is.
You'd still see it occasionally though.
No one's saying either Eye or Temple ban wouldn't neuter the deck, but Temple ban completely removes the stompy plan while Eye removes the "lel nice 2/2 for 1 here's 4 2/1s for 0 :^)"
>Go to a legacy event without graveyard hate, it'd be fun!
That's not what he was saying, obviously if you play a deck that isn't playable then you can't win, but in legacy has more variance on in game skill.
>lol no you just die to grave hate
Only if you play dredge. That doesn't happen with lands, ANT, reanimator or fucking zombardment, which are all better graveyard decks.
The difference between Citadel into 2 Memnite 4 Frogmite and Eye into 4 Mimic into Temple, TKS, is the hilarious amount of damage Eldrazi outputs before anything else can happen. Tribal decks like Merfolk and Goblins is fine, and even to an extent Eldrazi is okay too. But when you have 25 power on board turn 2, I tend to draw a line. Sure, Affinity can shit out 10 power on turn 1 (2 Memnite, 4 Frogmite), but it's not completely unstoppable. Eldrazi literally just steamrolls with the amount of fast mana it gets, and it doesn't help that Eldrazi has the most broken tribe mechanics (I'm looking at you, Annihilator).
I'm for banning either Eye or Temple. Taking one down would not completely wreck the archetype but it would still give Eldrazi enough of a broken leg to allow other decks to play again.
It was the Grixis version with Jace and Emrakul rather than the Grishoalbrand version. I understand what the deck is trying to do but in terms of knowing what hands to keep and when to "go off" I was fairly clueless.
Here's the difference. your hypothetical affinity deck is dumping a hand of vanilla 1/1s and 2/2s. The Eldrazi deck is dumping 2/1s that get the power and toughness of any colorless creature that you play. Your scenario swings for 10 damage the next turn. The Eldrazi deck swings for 20.
do you know how many interesting creatures up to 4 mana would be playable that have a toughness lower 3 or lower? bolt is the reason why modern is stuck in the cantrip/aggro game.
yeah I was thinking of the colored ones while writing and you're completely right that Eye is very helpful for them, but that's as they're currently built
The thing is I think that the Eldrazi decks could adapt, partly at least.
In a situation where you only cast one Eldrazi, Eye or Temple do pretty much the same thing (except when you've got Urborg out of course).
Eye's main advantage is in being able to shit out several creatures a turn allowing you to play nothing but action, while Temple has the benefit of not being worthless in multiples.
There's a fair point to be made that Eye's inevitability through its ability, as well as the lack of card selection in Modern makes Eye's drawback negligible and Temple's benefit just as negligible simply because you probably won't see two Eyes or Temples in the same game. In this situation, Eye is far more powerful.
I think with Eye ban, the decks would start playing less creature-heavy decks. Eye devalues everything in your deck that isn't a creature, maybe with Temple not giving that huge boost to anything with the Eldrazi type just means they include other cards?
You're 100% right that the Eldrazi decks as they currently are care more about Eye than Temple though and would have a better time surviving with Temple ban rather than Eye.
My leaning towards Eye ban being better for Eldrazi Stompy as an archetype is mostly conjecture. I think the decks would be able to adapt but that thought is nothing but muh feels at this point.
>ban cranial plating
affinity is incredibly weak post sideboard
we only need eye banned
>unban stonforge mystic
the affinity creatures have no value in themselves. its gg after a pyroclasm or any sweeper. eldrazi creatures have value when etb or dying or casting, plus they are 3/3's and 4/4's and the robots are 1/1's
are you this fucking retarded
Rest in Piece is one card
I am not talking about one physical piece of cardboard, I'm talking about one fucking card as in "this card does this thing"
Modern's hate is very uniform. There's no Containment Priest, no DRS, no big decks that care about Grafdigger's Cage, no deck where you can afford Tormod's Crypt, no situational tutors like GSZ that allow you to just run Ooze if your deck can support it, etc.
You have far more options (and far more tradeoffs) to make in Eternal.
I forgot the drawback of Eye that it doesn't actually produce mana for anything but creatures, but that's fairly obvious and is part of the comparative devaluation of creatures when your Sol land is Temple instead of Eye, but you never know in Memedern: you might get jolly fellows like >>45356161 replying and widening the normal distribution
It ends the game against greedy decks that refuse to respect Moon.
The only time it's degenerate is if powered out turn 1 on the play, and I think only one deck exists that would ever try doing that. It's fringe at best, too.
You know what else is degenerate turn 1 on the play? Chalice of the Void for 1. You know what deck does that? Diamond Stompy. It's far from a fringe deck.
Why not simply reformat modern to use the legacy card pool minus the reserved list?
simply paste the reserved list into the legacy b&r list and use that for the modern format.
The problem with "just fetch up basics" is that some draws just don't allow for that. You could have the nut draw and still have serious questions of whether to mulligan or not because of how oppressive Moon is.
It feels fairly redundant to point at colourless Eldrazi as a way of showing that Blood Moon is a fair card because both of them are broken to the point where they shouldn't be allowed in modern.
On one hand I like that there is a super high power level deck, but I hate that there is only one super high power level deck
Modern general I believe we have been asking for this for a long time
Before the Twin ban we wanted Twin gone and Pod to come back. Now that Twin is gone we want Eldrazi gone and Twin back. At this point I don't think even Pod has enough strength to beat the Eldrazi menace. You either play Eldrazi or you lose to Eldrazi.
Bring back Cruise, Burn is hero we need now
Goblins is fun as shit, and has had a couple top 8's recently, but you kinda fold to anything with Deathrite Shaman. Merfolk is kind of a thing, though you still have to shell out for force of will. Burn has gotten better since Eidolon of the Great Revel was printed, but it's still not amazing. Monoblack pox is fun if you hate people. Death and Taxes is a legitimately good deck.
You've got some options. They basically all are going to require wastes and ports, though, which are almost as expensive as duals.
True, but it's entirely possible to put together a workable mono-red list. Plus the duals that goblins would consider tend to be the cheapest, and you usually don't run a full playset
You could build an Enlightened Tutor deck like I did.
Solidarity High Tide is also an option.
looks like rest/helm combo. activate helm of obedience for 1 with a rest in peace active, none of the cards actually go to the graveyard since RiP exiles them, they exile their entire deck.
Is this worth speculating over?
There is an ENDrazi deck that seems to be topping a few Modern Dailies easily and it runs 4 of this.
Also, is mono green stompy viable in Modern?
>long game against mono B control
>20 cards in deck, 21 in exile
>he has 12 cards in deck, 28 in exile
>Everything is answered. Everything. Creature? Answer. Boardwipe? Answer.
>Win via pic related whittling him down
Now this is magic.
I might go back to running that instead of the Cursed Scroll. The Scroll is cute with a hand full of plains, but I can't think of a situation I'd tutor it and not Ghostly Prison, Humility, or Belcher.
Scepter is huge bait for Abrupt Decay though.
If vintage is the samson option, legacy is an arms race pauper is a guerilla war.
>my win con is decking the other guy out and countering everything I can
>it fucking works.
Is the Eldrazi deck really all that powerful?
Built a colorless proxy version to test with a couple of friends and they were both able to consistently beat it with BW Tokens and GR Tron.
The deck just seemed to run out of gas easly and I encountered a ton of mana flooding.
i used to play it
i could beat burn, zoo, fish, most control and infect
i couldnt beat tron or affinity and chalice at 1 or 2 fucks it up big time
its still a fun deck you can build for like $60, but i dont know if it can win
I think the scroll is better desu, mostly for the inherent risk of getting 2-for-1'ed so easily with the scepter package.
Also, you don't necessarily want to lock up the game, it's more that you want to buy time to power out your win cons, and efficient use of resources is key in achieving that goal. Getting decayed is not part of that plan imo.
>Angler Delver mirror
>angler counterspell dispel deprive dispel
>they play angler
>sit there for a few turns drawing more cards
>swing with angler
>back to square one
i think the 24 mana recommended is too much
i flood sometimes at 22
i guess the idea is that you pop your ghost quarters, and they kill your eyes/temples
your supposed to kill them like turn 4 tho
im testing 2 conduit of ruin and 2 ulamog, but its hard to play most times
I built the GW gond deck recently, it's almost like twin when you get the opener of
>forest forest pilgrim guard gond
Some people legit don't see it coming, or they don't understand that it's a combo until I sit there and make 50 of them
Don't be fooled by the lack of duals, DnT is fucking expensive, I think its in the range of 1700$. Waste, Port, and Karakas are a lot of money. Vial is a lot more than it should be, and so is sword of Feast and famine.
Xmage, and it wasn't me playing Lantern.
The guy just started going off in chat and he hasn't stopped yet
Yea, Turn 4 didn't happen too often.
The Tron deck was always able to recover from any land destruction, and 1-2 bombs can end the game quickly for you.
The BW Tokens deck had a harder time but it was able to stabalize itself with its removal and token blockers. Eventually you'd get in a swing with lifegain and it ends the game, even with ratchet bombs being used.
>Make 50 trillion of them
>Still have 50 trillion+ life
it's funny how hard delver tends to fold to having huge HP, losing that tempo is hilarious. Also the fact lifegain is 'viable'
The worst match-ups are probably Miracles and Oops/Belcher.
The plan against Miracles is to Needle his Top and then try to push through a Helm, Humility, or Belcher with Orim's Chant.
Zorb+Humility makes it really hard for him to actually kill me, and I'll probably land RiP at some point, so he can only cast his Council's Judgement once.
If he gets CounterTop right away I'm probably hosed though. That's what the Seal of Cleansing in the SB is for.
When Scroll Rack and Land Tax are online I can draw 4+ cards per turn, so I'm not that afraid of losing CA.
The sideboard is
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Seal of Cleansing
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Ivory Tower
1 Porphyry Nodes
1 Pithing Needle
1 Cursed Totem
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
well they can kill you on turn 2
turn 2 is when you can get your avatar of the resolute to block the inkmoth
there was really no affinity in my meta, so my hate was unravel the aether, beast within and creeping corrosion at 2,3,and 4 cmc. i could be dead by then
and if i wasnt, they clog up the board with too many creatures and you only have 4 rancors and 4 creatures with trample
not a good matchup
If I have Scroll Rack and Land Tax it doesn't matter.
I used to run it main, but I got stuck too many times with only Land Tax when I cast Solitary. I had plenty of cards to discard, but no spells to cast to make me actually win.
It's probably better in the main as a catch-all though.
Hoping to not set a shitstorm:
How we can "save" modern? I mean, is there a way to improve the format? To make it more skill intensive, enjoyable,
Do you think that some unbannigs can help the format?
I play magic since a year. My first deck T2 Sidisi whip. Moved soon to Modern with Ad Nauseam. Now I'm playing Grixis control, Affinity and Merfolk. I'm doing really well at locals, old players tell me that my skills grew exponentially despite the lack of experience but I already feel tired.
I always feel like I win/lose just for topdecks.
you literally cant stall
you only win most games because your faster and if you curve right
most of the time they get you with infect from inkmoth, and gust costs 5 while corrosion is at 4 and the life gain is irrelevant due to infect
sometimes you dont even make it to 5 mana
I think we should unban
>Sword of the Meek
>Force of Will
>Fact or Fiction
Basically, make it mostly fair legacy, with slightly worse manabases.
So the problem with Modern is that it's too aggressive and the only new decks that can come into existence are ones which are faster than existing decks suck as Eldrazi being faster than the rest of the format, AND YOUR SOLUTION IS TO SPEED UP AFFINITY?
natures claim is your best bet and its bad for aggro as they gain 4
you should probably board melira, but that isnt really a solution, you should have it for infect
its almost unwinnable as your a fair aggro deck and theyre an unfair one, the only way is if they draw poorly and you have a perfect curve
you have to accept that its a loss and try to focus on decks you can beat
infect and tron are better matchups
WotC doesn't want Modern to just be "slightly worse Legacy," and that's one thing I agree with them on. Modern, at least in theory, should be a format where the cards that aren't good enough to see legacy play, but are no longer standard legal get to shine. Otherwise there's no real reason to play Modern over Legacy other than price.
>gimmicky combo win
>PURE BLUE sideboard package [/
spoiler] at sorcery speed [/spoiler]
THE KING OF COMBO
Scapeshift and Ad Naus may have spell priority, but they don't have 15 counterspells postboard.
It would have helped in block/standard, but it probably wouldn't have been enough. There was tons of artifact hate floating around that Affinity could have easily just slotted in to blow it up, and then continue on their merry way. Modern wouldn't really be any different.
>Affinity is the only deck that even comes close to competing with Eldrazi decks at the pro tour
>Let's make Affinity better, guys, that'll fix Modern!
Remember kids, don't eat the lead paint chips.
More than just Nature's claim exists.
Also who cares if they gain 4, your creatures are bigger and will outlast their cheap artifacts.
Personally I think the matchup isn't that bad, but I'd have to test it out myself.
Certainly not as one-sided as burn vs soul sisters.
natural state isnt that bad, but you cant use oxidize as you need enchantment kill for tokens and probably worship now which costs 4 (no natural state)
and i think unravel is best because it gets rid of wurmcoil and they get no tokens, and batterskull
affinity can even stabilize after creeping corrosion if they played right and didnt go all in
its by far your worst matchup. then tron, then infect
THINKING OUTSIDE OF THE BOX HERE
why don't think make cards restricted in modern?? Every format has it and most other tcgs too, for a good reason; some shit makes a deck viable but is degenerate as a 4 of. I'd be down with eye of ugin as a 1 of, seething song as a 1 of, hell even T.Cruise, Bloodbraid and Splintertwin seem perfect as singletons.
All parties win with this model, why do they refuse to implement it??
>tfw I love interaction
>but due to how shit Control is, the only way I can express it is to have a shitton of removal in my aggro deck anyway
And then I get cockblocked by Chalice on 1, and while everyone else is bitching about how aggro is the niggers of Magic, I'm here taking it up the ass for trying to prove that no, aggro is not all like the fucking Eldrazi bullshit, stop trying to typecast it all as uninteractive garbage you wannabe blue mage punk shits.
Fuck the police.
A) it's retarded
B) only Vintage currently uses it within the context of Magic; Standard hasn't had to restrict a card since back when Magic formats were called Type whatevers. Like, we're talking back when Magic had a magazine and all the important information was in there and Necro was still a card.
C) Vintage only uses it because it's a format where you get to play whatever you want save for dexterity and ante shit, so instead of banning anything that isn't dexterity or ante the most it can do is restrict or else it goes against the spirit of the format.
as someone who played Ancient Tomb + Chalice for years
Chalice is fair
the only decks that have to worry are greedy burn and delver variants
all the removal that matters has 2cmc
Chalice is not supposed to be a lockpiece but a roadblock
it just happens to be a lockpiece if your deck is badly built
Break out the shitbrews that have no chance of ever actually winning a game
Its actually not surprising that a modern deck beat a vintage deck, Vintage is such an insular format that its meta is shaped to beating its previous meta, I've played so many games of vintage where when you play the requisite counter magic to deal with opposing combo decks you just lose to shit like D&T and Tribal Fish.
And no, Eye doesn't compare to lotus ramp. Thats just not true, even statiscally, Eye is only ever 2 mana unless you have Urbog, but we're talking turn 1-2 here, Lotus is always 3 for free plus you didn't use a land drop, so best case is that lotus 1 land is = Eye + Urbog, but i can Lotus + Land T1
Nigger please, that roadblock in Legacy is a fucking brick wall in Modern. Call it a symptom of a greater problem but the foundation of a huge number of decks in Modern is 1cmc.
Modern right now can't handle it, it's not as bearable as it is in Legacy.
mud is a slower stax and tax based hate deck where most of the hate is directed to other vintage cards
eldrazi can get past some of the taxes and kill on turn 3,4,5, while stax grinds out games
Dredge, Storm and Oath should beat Eldrazi tho>>45356057
Modern is already a coinflip, restricting cards would just mean the variance would go off the fucking charts.
It works in Vintage because Vintage has the absolute most degenerate card advantage that has ever existed in the history of the game, so your ability to draw into your 1-ofs isn't just the heart of the cards.
Playing the shit out of lantern right now.
This is the best deck to tilt people or find which one are the dumbest.
>Guys drop is whole hand on turn one
>Proceed to stabilize and have full lock on
>5 turn later, 4 mill rock on board + another ensnaring bridge
>He send me "Now what ?"
>"You'll draw nothing. And either i'll mill you or will recur a pyrite spellbomb 10 times."
>"Ok go ahead"
>"You'll not conceed ?"
>"Ok" Proceed on leaving the game
Nigger you're on Xmage, no money or points on the line why would you be so mad about it ?
J U S T
So, you set yourself up a win condition of "be the most patient," and then immediately admit you have no patience?
I'm glad you at least left the game right after. You were very honorable to concede right away. Too bad you lost.
yeah well i played against a control deck that was tuned against tron and eldrazi last night at modern
he went to time every round, no ties tho and there wasnt any slow play
if even 1 jace was allowed i can image all those would have been ties
>Eye is only ever 2 mana unless you have Urbog
I once got 10 mana off an Eye in testing
2 Mimics and 3 Endless One, all cast for free on turn one with an Eye
Obviously that's unlikely as fuck, but it illustrates the point
, and I actually lost that game, because I was on the draw and the GR tron I was testing against had a pyroclasm
Obviously Lotus is the better card, because you can do way more broken things than cast some creatures fast, but statistically Eye can generate more mana.
I have patience, it's just pointless on Xmage to try and be a dick about it when you admit you can't win and I will win in the next X turns.
it's just redundant, because he can just F9 the turn while I ned to be always alert of the draws and recurring things.
If it's a competitive event with prizes, yes I'll do it since it disavantages him, i'll win first game using most of our time for the match. And if we goes to time, i'll have the match.
But on Xmage with time being split, and people going full 1h30 clock time, wtf is the point, I don't need the win, I know i won the game at that point. If he wants to be a dick about it fine.
>Caring about losing on Xmage
On a tournament, i really don't care you make me play out.
It hurts you more since I am wasting OUR time on a match I already won, leaving you with little time to win game 2. Either leaving you with a draw if you're fast enough or a loss if we don't finish the second game.
And lantern is much faster IRL than on Xmage or MTGO where the clunky interfaces makes it a pain to recur thing from graveyards or activate abilities.
>checking prices again before I go home for the weekend and buy a few cards I'm looking at
>Archangel of Thune had randomly shot up $10
It's out of standard and I have a hard time imagining it sees play in legacy, so what modern deck needs Archangel of Thune so much that the price is going up?
>bought Lord of Atlantis 7ED because art is better than the clownfish of Timeshifted
>realize the white borders and incorrect rules text trigger me more than shit art
fucking reprint pls
They ain't reprinting anything with the old "it affects every player" formatting unless it becomes a represented draft archetype for a future Modern Masters. It's a no-go in present day card rules text design, deemed to be unintuitive to newfags.
>Not realizing that that is the original art
>Liking modern borders
>Not liking white borders
You couldnt be more of a faggot if you had 10 dicks in your mouth
Get fucked child
>implying this fucking hard
Original art =/= good art.
I do like the white borders, but not when it's the only card and everything else is black bordered. That's my problem with it.
So if I played this at FNM, would I be the meme master?
4 Hangarback Walker
3 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
Instants and Sorceries: 15
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Faithless Looting
2 Magma Jet
Other Spells: 14
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
4 Mind Stone
3 Blood Moon
4 Koth of the Hammer
22 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Dragon's Claw
3 Molten Rain
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Blood Moon
Melissa Benson is a great artist and most of the original artists were much better than what we have now
Her lord looks much better an doesnt have that shitty 7 on it