HHG FAQ - http://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8 Official HH 7th Editi

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New Generic RoWs

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>>45346886
New Legion RoWs

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First for Alpharius

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>>45346913
Shattered Legions

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>>45346981
Blackshields

What happened to the Solar Auxiliary when the HH was over?

>>45346913
Imperial Fist one is interesting, could be used to deep strike a Praevian or special weapon squads or Dorn plus a retinue. Its a bit dissapointing but it opens up interesting things.

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>>45346995
Army of Dark Compliance

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>>45347019
Herald Consul

>>45346996
They might still exist, guarding the Solar sector alongside the Fists and the Custodes.

>>45346996
They became Stormtroopers

Or they just got wiped out entirely in the Heresy and don't exist anymore. People have been asking what happened to the Sisters of Silence post-HH for instance, and GW is finally answering that in the Beast Arises series. They're gonna get raped by Orks.

>>45346822
>Still frothing for Knights-Errant rules Edition
Here's all I found. No idea on points or costs.

"he's centurion grade stat line. with all weapons being mastercrafted.

comes with artificer armour, iron halo and frag/krak grenades

has a paragon bolter, bolt pistol and power sword basic.

can upgrade BP out for volkite sepenta or plasma pistol

power sword can be changed for power fist or lightning claw

can take either a nunico-vox, servo arm and battlesmith or a narthecium

paragon bolter can be changed for combi-weapon or sniper rifle (neither are mastercrafted)

take meltabombs and/or jump pack

may take librarian consul upgrade at normal price.

has the 'oath of moment', by falsehoods cloaked, precision strike/shot, independant character, implacable advance, has blank 'legiones astartes' rule so uses the same version as the main army."

That last part about the black LA rule. Really hope he can embark vehicles.

>>45347039
I was thinking maybe they became the Scions or something.
>>45347042
>Or they just got wiped out entirely in the Heresy and don't exist anymore. People have been asking what happened to the Sisters of Silence post-HH for instance, and GW is finally answering that in the Beast Arises series. They're gonna get raped by Orks.
>raped by Orks
Please no. Let one group of women with Sisters in their name go unmolested.

Ok so, if an EC Kakaphoni unit shoot at a rapier battery made up of 2 units and get lucky and cause them 6 ID wounds - would it wipe out the whole unit?

Can you actually cause ID to artillery guns? I can't see why not, but it feels silly as they are inanimate objects.

>>45347048
if this is it that's incredibly disappointing.

I was hoping they could use termy armour so I could convert some GK termies I have lying around.

Any scan for the White scars rules and rites?

>>45347151
When I say "2 units" I mean 2 weapon carries btw, so 6 individual models overall.

>>45347042
SA are just a type of Army unit. They just got their own book because somebody had a boner for them. They probably just got organized as regular Guard regiments specialized in void combat. With the union of Guard and Navy severed and probably cuts in budgets, they probably had to give up their more elite equipment.

>>45347048
I want to see the actual page, reading this all I want to do are

Psychic sniper and a Jump Pack+Combi-Melta.

>>45346886
>>45346913
>>45346981
>>45346995
>>45347019
>>45347033
You are AWESOME for getting these posted right off the bat. The last couple of threads devolved a bit into people bitching and moaning over being told to check the archives.

Rumor about B&C has it that the Night Lords' LA rules are getting buffed in the new red book. Talent for Murder is now +1 to wound and to hit in melee when you outnumber your opponent. And From the Shadows is now a 5+ cover save on turn one.

If this is true I think running 20 man tac blobs with PA vigilators could be pretty fun. Throw in a volkite Terror Squad, some deep striking termies, and Sevatar for his warlord trait and you could have a pretty fun army. Thoughts?

..and yet *STILL* no fucking White Scars shit released to the wild

>>45347563
thus fucking the WEs once again

>>45347704
u wot? WE's completely destroy a list like this.

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>>45347583
>oh boy time for laughs
>go to B&C
>find White Scars in weekender thread
>make this
>wait a sec IS this in the archive?
>it's not
>realize I almost made myself look like a douchebag
I saved over the original picture but I just told you the source so its ok I guess. Atia is pretty nice for a GW insider, collecting rule dumps like that.

>>45347853

Oh that's cool. Has anyone seen the rest (wargear, RoW etc.)?

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>>45347853
>>45347583
I cant find the 2nd page annoyingly.

>>45347901
lal

did you not even click on the picture anon?

>>45347905

Makes me sad, but thanks anyway.

>>45347955

>lal

fuck off and die

>>45348034
>fuck off and die
don't be salty anon.

I know the White Scars rules and you do not.

Do you know why?

Because I know how to use google.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=horus+heresy+weekender+2016

Dubs picks my legion.

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>>45348112

>>45348112

2nd Legion

>>45348104

do you have the pages?

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Please be nice to each other.

>>45348112
Traitor Dark Angles.

>>45348112
Space Wolves

>>45348112
Wolfy wolfs.

>>45348112
2nd legion.

>>45348112
Legion of the damned.

>>45348112
BRRRRRR Angels.

>>45348136
Loyalist World Eaters

>>45348112
Traitor Imperial Fists

>>45348112
Black Shield Void-Reavers!

>>45348112
Traitor Raven Guard

>>45348112
If you aare picking a legion based on dubs, you won't be emotionally invested enough to actually make them.

Choose the one you want to be Your Dudes.

>>45348112
2nd legion

>>45348112
Traitor Space Wolves.

>>45348112
Loyalist Thousand Sons

>>45346822
Obligatory 'Knight Errant Rules When?' post.

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>>45348469
All Space Wolves are traitors.

They worship the 5th Chaos God Yiffnch, here are his daemons.

>>45348535
You mean the sixth? Malal is fifth.

>>45346886
So with the Sky phalanx you could potentially charge a unit with Jetbikes, lock them up for a turn, then in your next movement phase you place that unit into ongoing reserves and shoot the enemy unit that is now in the open. Like a super-Hit & Run, could be neat.

After I get some castellax/Aquila strongpoint Im definitely going to make a White Scar jetbike force.

>>45348551
>6th
>forgets about hashut and horned rat
>implying be'lakor isn't as good as a god already

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>>45348582
>>implying be'lakor isn't as good as a god already
Please don't bring his husband here.

>>45348112
11th legion

>>45348112
Iron Hands

>>45348112
Luna Yiffs

>>45348112
BRRRRRT Angels.

>>45348112
Blackshields

So whats the point of adding rules like "Must always sweeping advance."? I'm not seeing a choice under sweeps in the BRB.

>>45348112
Sons of Horus

>>45348172
>Please be nice to each other.
You are awesome.

Ha ha, fucking wow, Power Glaives are what Power Axes used to be (and should be).

>>45347300
Stormtroopers aren't really regular Guard anymore, they're separate from the Departmento Munitorum now and an elite military force that's part of the Ordo Tempestus

>>45349066
Fucking SoH win again...

>>45349079
SA are not stormies. SA were a unit type that was copied over to thousands of Army regiments during the Crusade and they made up to a third of the Army's fighting force.

Stormies are a whole different thing, a highly specialized unit trained from childhood and intended to operate as either an independent shock force independent of the traditional Guard formations or more commonly as a force multiplier to existing regiments in the field. They began as a Departmento Munitorum unit, but GW in their wisdom decided to move them under the Administratum.

>>45347042
>They're gonna get raped by Orks.
This is just like my Japanese ninja rape games!

>>45348582
>Forgetting Ans'l, Mo'rcck and Phraz-Etar
>Do you even spikes?

>>45347828
he means the supposed night lords legion astartes rules invalidate world eaters rules

>>45348582
>>45348620
>Completely forgetting the chaos god of Atheism, Necoho
>Forgetting the Great Undoer, Zuvassin

>>45347563
>Throw in a volkite Terror Squad

You need 3 Terror Squads as troops if you are using the NL RoW.

>>45349385
>>45349255
>old pleb tier gods

Nobody remembers them.

So... what happens if Blood Angels give a Moritat two hand flamers? RAW it seems like every time it hits, it then attacks again, which seems to recursively create an infinite number of attacks increasing exponentially because templates automatically hit every model under the template. Ff you play it strictly RAW the attacks never even get to roll to wound because you're stuck generating more and more attacks until you run out of time for the game.

I guess, uh, gentlemen's agreement not to do this?

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>>45349385
>god of Atheism

Hoping to get a pic of the Cortus rules from a wonderful anon. Saved everything I've seen but really itching for that. Thanks in advance!

>>45349385
>> Remembering the chaos god of Atheism

Seriously OP, you cant be doing that, you know he only is strong if no one knows or believes in him.

>>45349448
Please forget this...

>>45349385

It's actually Athe, the goddess of Atheism, Passive-Aggression, Spite, and Irony.

>>45349432
I would suggest, personally, that you resolve the hits generated by the first attack, then make another on the survivors, etc etc.

Its not RAW, and it pretty much means you insta-kill whatever the templates touch, but other than giving his flamers a roll to see if they jam or run out of fuel or something then that's the best compromise I can see.

>>45349534
Yeah, I think they're going to have to FAQ it the way that they FAQ'd Chain Fire for plasma. Maybe rolling 1s to wound makes the hand flamer explode or something. Or just specifically don't let Moritats bring them.

As it stands it's the most broken thing in the game by far... you can literally kill anything in the game T6 or lower 100% of the time if you get into range.

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Has anyone tried putting these on heavy bolters?

>>45349432
Do note that the rules say that it "may" make a new attack for each hit, so you can choose to stop blasting them at some point and start rolling those wounds.

>>45349432
Don't invest in hand flamer moritats, they won't let him live.

Melta pistol moritat is best grill

>>45349691
Ah, good point! So that just makes the situation worse - at least if it forced you to keep attacking then it wouldn't actually be something you could use because it just breaks the game state, so there would be no point in taking it.

If you're allowed to stop shooting whenever you want that allows you to roll up however many wounds you want until you're satisfied you have enough dice to bury whatever it was you aimed at.

>>45349768
>>45349691
Did they FAQ it so you couldn't chain fire on overwatch? Because that makes moritats immune to assault.

>>45349493
>>Confirmed for not knowing shit

Goodness, google or something...

>>45349324
How so? I don't understand how you can invalidate WE's legion astrates rules when the best part of it is just giving rage to all units.

>>45349815
I suppose that with flamers it would, since you get D3 Wall of Death hits, which gives D3 Wall of Death hits, etc. but that's an exception.

In normal cases it's not necessary to rule on. Chain fire stops as soon as you miss, and since you only hit on 6s during overwatch more often than not you don't even get started. It's only template weapons that create a problem because they automatically hit.

>>45349490
What about Blanks? How fucked up would a Blank only Necoho cult be?

>>45350010
So the god of atheism cant see he is being worshipped so therefore he isnt a god? Makes sense.

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>>45349476

>>45350188
You do the Emperor's work anon.

Speaking of dreadnoughts, you don't happen to have the new rules for Cassian Dracos do you?

>>45350188
That's awesome thank you.

You wouldn't be able to get a pic of their fluff column right there? Or Knights Errants rules? If so thank you in advance.

>>45350188
Nice, any chance you can post the Knight Errant page?

>>45350288
>>45350293

Sorry I don't actually have the book. I just have what people I know have posted so far.

>>45350188
More "must make sweeping" rules? WHY? You have to anyway.

Thanks for the pic though.

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>>45350230

>>45350405
Probably future proofing by Bligh.

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Also here's Shadrak Meduson and Tybalt Marr if anyone hasn't seen them. Don't have the other characters on me though. 1/2

>>45350416
I love you so much anon.

First rule is confusing, though. Why the hell would Narik Dreygur be in the same army as Cassian Dracos? Did he betray Perturabo and turn loyalist all of a sudden?

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>>45350483
Tybalt Marr 2/2

>>45350486
Yup, in the fluff in book 6, Narik goes loyalist. I believe his rules allow you to use him as either side in the game.

>>45350188
Thank you a ton anon. My Iron Tenth is appreciative!

>>45350528
Oh, wow, that's cool as fuck.

>>45349066
Every time

>>45350188
I like it.
Try not to think of it compared to the Contemptor, instead think of it compared to the normal dread. For 10 points you gain Fleet and Move Through Cover and all those weird tricks, but also get bunked down to WS4.

>>45350188
Do we know what force org slot it takes up?

>Armoured Breakthrough
Do the compulsory Predator squadrons need sponsons or are the sponsons optional? They need to have the predator cannon, but i can't figure if the sponsons are compulsory.

>>45351028
Don't forget front AV13. That's a big deal. Stock marines can glance AV12 on 6s with Krak Grenades; against AV13 they can't do shit. They just shit there and get butchered.

>>45351073
Pretty sure sponsons are optional, it's just laying out what your potential options are.

>>45347033
I'm really digging the Herald.
Basically a Chaplain, but makes the unit a smidge faster.

>>45350486
Apparently Autilon Skorr is just that douchey. Who knew?

>>45351389
I really like that they took those two one-off event characters and spun them into the narrative like this.

>>45351389
Maybe he didnt ask for all those cyber-augments.

am i insane for wanting to magnetize all 60 of my bolter scrubs in the calth box, just so i can run them as 60 reavers with combi plasmas?

it would be so violent

Haven't lucked out finding the rules for Narik dreygur. Anyone can help me out? Forever grateful

>>45349760
That's already the case for Moriats however they're armed, but that's not enough.

Before the nerf, dual-plasma Moriats used to die on sight, but still took an entire squad with them before they did.

Are DA rules out yet?

>>45351701
They're in here >>45348172
Swords good, Herald superfluous.

>>45351052
I believe that it's been said before that they're Elites.

I can't confirm this though.

>>45350188
>>45350416
>>45350483
>>45350509
You are awesome and you should feel awesome.

>>45351721
Is it just me or are those some incredibly lackluster legion rules?

>>45351893
I'm a little butthurt about another Imperial Fist RoW pushing Phalanx Warders, and not allowing the guys who are known for their fortifications to have Fortifications.

>>45351893
Did you not read their wargear? That's their real legion rules.

>>45351893
They're pretty boring, but war blades and poison heavy bolters go a long way to help out. Stasis grenades also look tempting, but I don't think they'll pan out.

>>45351951
It's meant to be them doing their space thing, but it's not great

So how do you even use the ultras Operthi vigil ROW?

>>45346913

What exactly are these? RoWs for after they fall to Chaos? Just alternatives to the existing ones? Replacements?

>>45352035
Alternatives to the existing ones. Some are for more chaos-inspired lists (particularly the Night Lords and Emperor's Children ones), some reflect the losses of loyalists on Isstvan V (Salamanders and Iron Hands), and others simply represent different ways the Legion goes to war. It's to broaden the variety of armies people can bring, as lists were getting very stale and predictable with the choices we had. Between the new legion rites and the new generic rites things outta get shaken up a lot.

>>45351957
No deathwing, inferior Ravenwing...
Can't say I'm impressed.

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>>45352147
I see that Dark Angels are just as insufferable in 30k as they are in 40k.

>>45348172
Does anyone have a good photo of what it says in the margins of the BA LA?

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Corax is starting to come together. With more paint and detail I feel the helmet looks much more appropriate, no?

>>45352444
The area where his neck would connect does look a little conspicuous if you look hard. Do you have any more shots from other angles?

On the whole I think it's gonna come out well.

>>45352444
You've done a great job on Corvax so far, but please highlight the visor slots when finished. They look very dull as is.

>>45352444
Still fairly obvious it's a plastic helmet. Shame you've got no raven guard beaks.

>>45351028
And the 5++ in the front

>>45346920
Has anyone ever built a list with Alphy in it?

>>45352237
First Legion pride! Baby kouhai legions need not apply!

I bet your legion didn't even recruit from Merica.

>>45352548
Don't you have to go change the Lion's bedpan?

>>45352516
how would you even know?

>>45352633
I mean when he's not pretending to be someone else.

>>45352492
I had to double check holding him. The part between the neck and back of the gorget has vents like the inside trim of shoulder pauldrons. I think that's what you're seeing. It's hard to tell what they are with that pic.

>>45352507
Can't forget his whiskers ha.

>>45352510
Wish there were some that had a more beak(as in actual curved beak) ones I could snag. Oh well if one ever comes out it'll be an easy swap.

Thanks all

>>45352237
Sixth edition was suffering.
Now others can suffer in our stead.

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>>45352710
>Sixth edition was suffering.
Sixth edition was a wonderful codex that we were glad to have.

I played this army through Fourth. You know how much suffering that was? Fourth edition Chaos was laughing at us. The codex that was a three unit monobuild was laughing at us because it was three units more than we had to build with.

>>45352877
I'm so sorry.
I can't even imagine CSM laughing at us.

>>45352885
CSM laughed at everybody for the first six months of 6th edition. Back when flyers were rare and no-one had any Skyfire (except for their Aegis quadguns), Heldrakes were the be-all and end-all of CSM lists, which just goes to show how ridiculously good it was considering it was a flyer with one gun and no transport capacity.

Eldar, and then Tau coming out 6 months later pretty much ended any possibility of being competitive. By the time Space Marines came out 9 months later, it was all well and truly over.

7th edition day-1 FAQs changing the Heldrake's only weapon to be front-mounted instead of turreted just twisted the knife. By then Chaos fucking Spawn were considered the best unit in the codex, ffs.

Even before the 7th edition update, Dark Angels could at least do terminator lists better than CSM could (which aren't competitive but are at least fun). Hey, GW! I get that Abaddon's buddies never had any Storm Shields, but why the fuck would Huron have immediately thrown all his away?

>>45349634
Not yet but I've got some on the way. Was thinking about just using the rotor cannon, but having a mini gun seems way cooler.

As for actually putting them on I assume you would need to assemble the heavy bolter, and then cut the barrel off. The center will probably be roughly aligned with the previous barrels position, and the back of these tips have that odd curvature so they might need to be flattened down. Just my thoughts.

>>45353045
Yeah I never played against heldrakes.
Interesting to think that 1 edition could fuck someone over so hard though.

>>45352885
Hate to break it to you, but CSM laughed at us for years before that.

3.5 CSM was one of the most beloved codices GW ever made though, so it's forgivable.

>>45353094
I'll admit, I'm too new to have known a time when CSM was more than a handicap.

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>>45353094
>those wargear options
>those legion rules
>Most units being useable
all dust on the wind

>>45353081
heldrakes were always a gimmick though

i never bought them because i thought the model was shit.. turned out right in end since they just ended up being shit after the first 6 months of OP terror.

honestly everything in the 6th ed book was overcosted from day 1, thats why guys had to turn to heldrake spam.

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>>45353102
Old chaos wargear, from the before times

>>45353094
>so it's forgivable
No it's not, but the nostalgia is nice anyway.

>>45353191
You could give skills to veterans?
I can just imagine those juicy custom vets.
Also, chainfists at 30/18 points made me laugh.

>>45353191
that shit is what got me into 40k before that i only played fantasy. the rules were so well written

the art in all of those old books is so much better than the new shit gw is cranking out now, thats why gw just reuses a lot of it

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>>45352885
To put it into perspective, the Blood Angels got a new codex in WD at the same time. It was so bad people were actually worried about the Blood Angels getting squatted.

And it was still better than the Dark Angels codex.

>>45353224
not just veterans, terminators, basic marines and raptors too. You also got benefits for fielding units in their gods number.

>>45353191
>>45353285
This makes me wonder why old editions of miniature games don't get continued play when old editions of tabletop RPGs often do, especially with D&D.

>>45353309
I just don't understand.
What happened?
Where did it all go so wrong for the filthy traitors?

>>45353323
they do, but the people playing older editions aren't the ones bellyaching online

>>45353323
Harder to find opponents I would assume. You'd need a steady group all on one page.

>>45353323
because all the WAACfags and kids who bought all the new cheesy units would cry that their shit doesnt exist.

also it fractures the community and fracturing a community destroys it

>>45353323
You'd have to find someone willing to play that edition, and figure out if you both use that edition, or just you and how rules transfer over and how to balance it.

>>45353382
Case in point, if you spesifically fielded a death guard army, all your bolters got true grit, a rule that doesnt exist in 7th, so you and your opponent would have to house rules it. Power weapons also worked very different back then, all of them ignored armor, so you'd have to specify what power weapons counted as what, especially the daemon weapons because they were just power weapons, not axes or lances or maces.

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back when being a chosen fucking meant something

>>45353323
Also, because they usually push out a new edition after they've fucked it so badly with broken updates that the only way to fix it is to change the underlying core rules a bit.

Going back to 6th just before 7th is fundamentally broken (so no change then - zing!). Going back to 5th just before 6th is critically imbalanced for more than half the armies. Going back to 4th before 5th is beyond problematic and relies heavily on WD articles and random FAQs, and going back to 3rd before 4th is going to effectively eliminate half the units in almost everyone's armies (those that still exist; bye-bye Tau!).

Going back to 2nd or RT is so different from what you have now, you're effectively playing a different game (and indeed, the people who actually do this view it as such).

Some people do it; sometimes for a laugh, sometimes because they prefer it. But it's rare, and it doesn't take long at all before you have to houserule/homebrew a lot of stuff.

>>45353426
Yeah, like being completely fucking useless compared to Obliterators.

That's what being a Chosen meant in 3.5, good thing that's held true all the way through to the current codex.

>>45354073
>Obliterators
When did Obliterators become a thing, chronologically? Is there any chance we'll see Tyrants turning into cyber-mutants by the time we get to Terra, or does that happen way later?

>>45354105
As far as I remember, they're a post-Scouring thing, after the Legions got comfy in the Eye and promptly started murderfucking each other over clean water and boxes of bolt shells.

Anyone got rules for Xiaphas Jurr?

>>45354073
>0-1

>>45354154
>0-1
>implying you ever needed more than one squad
>implying everybody didn't play Iron Warriors for maximum heavy support

>>45354118
Yeah, that's kind of what I figured. It seems like the only legions that really gets their chaos engines started during the heresy are the Emperor's Children and the Word Bearers. Thousand Suns really only have one battle before Magnus teleports his entire planet away, Death Guard don't turn into plague marines until Typhon fucks them all over, Sons of Horus are just a bunch of jocks and bullies with topknots, World Eaters... well, it's kind of hard to tell with them, they were pretty fucking crazy even before the heresy. Anyway, Night Lords never really fall to chaos so much as their own base violent and sadistic urges, Iron Warriors definitely don't go full chaos (even in 40k IW veterans despise chaos mutation), and Alpha Legion, well, whatever they are it's not a chaos cult.

If anything, I guess the only faction we're gonna see any more chaos-ification with before we get to Terra would be Mechanicum. Scoria gives the hints of that beginning, with his armies of semi-sentient beast-minded automata that thirst for blood without being told to and his creepy, possibly possessed pet project testbed. I kinda like it being subtle like that - you know where the destination is, so even a small push there lets you envision the path.

>>45354174
Caveat emptor, bruddah.

2015's HH Weekender had mention made of the Chaos aligned legions getting more and more corrupted, with legion rules changing and primarchs changing. Things like the Lupercii and other possessed units, daemons, etc

Shit will eventually get crazy by the time FW's line hits Terra. And at this rate, they'll get there before Black Library.

>>45354169
>not deepstriking terminator chosen with axes of khorne

>>45354210
Either way it's gonna be a fun ride. Book 6 looks like their best work in a long time, though. 4 and 5 had some cool stuff, but 90% of the people interesting in 30k are here for the legions, not the Auxilia, Knights or the Militias and Cults. It's nice to finally see a huge volume of rules for them again.

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How would a battle between a pair of pre-Heresy strike cruisers/fleet vessels realistically go in terms of standard tactics and likely result?

One Legion is Iron Warriors with a cutting edge ship using fairly advanced technology for the era, the other one's Imperial Fists, scattered from a pursuit force and at a disadvantage?

Do Heresy era ship battles differ all that much from their 40k counterparts and how would standard tactics work in a 1v1 scenario where the Fist ship is pursuing the Iron Warriors despite the warning signs?

Also, how's this as a lore piece for said Iron Warriors ship?

The Breaker is a Strike Cruiser of the Iron Warriors Legion. With its sleek, curved twin prow, raised observation towers along the upper hull and almost arch-like structural reinforcement, it initially almost resembles a ship of a Legion such as the Imperial Fists. (Indeed, many of its design elements would inexplicably go on to appear in other non-STC pattern Strike Cruisers, such as the Excoriator and the infamous Covenant of Blood, both vessels of the Night Lords.)

On closer observation, however, its true heritage becomes readily apparent. Where a ship of another Legion might have windows on the squat bridge, the Breaker only has further armor plating. The gaudy ornamentation common to so many other Legions is completely absent, replaced by further subtle reinforcement. Rows of engines allow it to put on impressive bursts of speed, the ships's sides bristle with torpedo bays and point-defense cannons...and a pair of lance batteries in the aft of the vessel make it an utterly lethal void combatant. A bombardment cannon in the prow gives it the ability to raze cities and scour continents of opposition...or even kill worlds. Perhaps its most lethal ordnance, however, is the full Company of Space Marines and equipment it can carry in its holds- and deploy from its drop pods.

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>>45354249
The illegitimate child of illicit cooperation between the so-called "Silent Forge", certain pariah Forge Worlds rescued by the IVth Legion during their endless march, and the Iron Warriors' own not-inconsiderable technical expertise, the Breaker is arguably a testament to the fruits of progress and cooperation. It incorporates many of the most recent developments in ship design (shared from distant Ultramar and Mars itself in the spirit of Unification) as well as innovations of the Iron Warriors themselves from before and after their reunion with their Primarch. Rumors of heretek modifications and the Iron Warriors dabbling in technologies better left untampered were, of course, dismissed as idle slander. For all his sullied reputation, Perturabo and his Legion were considered obedient and trustworthy to a fault.

The Breaker's intended role is exactly that suggested by the name given to it by its unimaginative creators. On its own, it has the firepower to brush aside the defenses typical of most non-compliant worlds and minor Xeno empires. Its impressive engines allow it to outrun most enemies that it can't outgun (though perhaps the modifications made by the Iron Warriors have reduced its efficiency in this role) and it bears enough armor to survive the firestorm of a planetary assault or sustained bombardment should speed and shielding both fail it. Fast, heavily-armed, and durable for a ship of its size and role, the Breaker is a gladius stabbed into the heart of Perturabo's space-borne enemies, capable of fulfilling almost any role needed of it to its grim master's satisfaction.

>>45354212
>not Mark of Slaanesh daemon princes going around making everyone dance the macarana.

Yeah, 3.5 was good. But it had some fucking retarded things in it, like Chosen being near-useless outside of a handful of niche uses and utterly eclipsed by other slots and Daemon Prince building being pointlessly complicated.

Also, buying frag grenades.

That said, 30k's "Chosen Warrior" rule is pretty swish. Being able to issue multiple challenges and accept them is a good way of locking down certain characters and units in melee. Also helps that the units with that rule have the equipment or stats to back it up, unlike 3.5 Chosen who were just more expensive mooks.

>>45354249
I wouldn't use words like "sleek" or "subtle" in any description of anything the Iron Warriors use.

>>45354272
Fair enough- the idea's basically a protagonist ship that has reasons for basically being a more advanced strike cruiser. The model itself has that design element, so I had to explain it away. Subtle may not be a good word there- I'll replace it with "additional reinforcement".

It's basically what happens when the Iron Warriors technical expertise meets the more experimental kind of Soon-To-Be Dark Mechanicus- you get a Strike Cruiser that's nastier than it has any right to be, with the drawback that all too soon, that high maintenance requirement and tradeoffs are going to kick in now that the scouring-era Iron Warriors don't have as much of a supply chain.

Hoping they start replacing some of that breakable technology with bound daemons, as they have a techmarine.

>>45354298
"Sinister" and "menacing" might be better adjectives to toss in there as well. This thing is supposed to be intimidating, not graceful.

>>45354298
>>45354315
Oh, also, this is Warhammer. The phrase "panoply of war" is contractually obligated to exist in any description two paragraphs or more in length.

>>45354315
...Actually, that's a pretty good idea, thanks! Noted that down.

Any thoughts on how a showdown between a strike cruiser chasing this one down might go in terms of tactics?

can someone give mi a hint of what a LUPERCII is? Danke

>>45354333
For that I'd say to re-read the battle of phall part of extermination. While it's a large-scale fleet battle it does give a good basis for how Iron Warriors think tactically in regard to ship-to-ship combat. For them it's just about the simplest application of force to the weakest part of the enemy - spot a weakness, fuck it up with every gun you have. It's all about efficiency.

If the Iron Warriors are on the defensive I'm not sure what tactics they'd use other than trying to maintain an ideal range and keep fucking them up with guns, and, failing that, just ramming them. I don't see them being the evasive types. Establish an ideal point of engagement and shoot first from their own terms, and then keep shooting until one of the ships is dead.

The thing to bear in mind about describing tactics in Warhammer is that it's not about making things realistic or tactically sound - what you're really describing is the attitude and psychology and culture of the army fighting.

>>45354372
Noted, thanks. That works well.

I'm mostly looking for an excuse to have a boarding action- a last ditch attempt by the Fists, sacrificing their ship to do it when it's clear they're losing?

>>45354398
Yeah, that makes sense for them as well. That's their shtick and they're among the legions who are the best at it. I'm not sure how you justify them closing the gap, though. Maybe they launch boarding vessels and then use their cruiser as a giant shield in front of them, willing to let it get blasted to bits so that some of their assault claws and caestus rams actually make it to the IW vessel.

>>45354428
...I like that. Makes more sense than my original idea of them teleporting on board somehow.

Appreciate the inspiration/suggestions.

>>45354451
Yeah, teleporting terminators isn't really their style in 30k. It's not supported much in their rules, either; the main RoW doesn't allow deep strike and they're not one of the legions that can buy teleportation stuff for their termies like some of the others can. Smashing into the hull with a bunch of caestus rams full of breachers and phalanx warders is what the Fists like to do. Using the dead ship as a shield is pretty silly tactically but it metaphorically fits the Fists theme of "Shields. On. Everything!" that they have going with their rules.

>>45354105
>When did Obliterators become a thing, chronologically?
>>45354118
>As far as I remember, they're a post-Scouring thing
They have no previously-specified date of creation, the can make them HH-era if they want.

>>45354265
>Also, buying frag grenades.
Hey, that's not a bad thing if everyone has to do it (which Space Marines/Eldar did, no-one else routinely got grenades).

I've said before that HH would be loads better if marines had to buy their grenades. It would be the difference between saving enough points for a "free" power fist on the sergeant, vs. the downside if you found yourself in an unexpected situation.

It would open up so many more possibilities, with so many hard choices.

>>45354554
Iron Warriors were canonically the first Legion to show signs as far as the Imperium knew, right? In old lore, Index Astartes era?

>>45354341

Sons of Horus Possessed Marines.

>>45349432
Before every shot roll a dice and on a roll of one the shot fails, that's how I'd do it.

>>45354637
Sure, but it never said it was post-Heresy.

>>45354889
Sure, but as of the siege of terra, all the iron warrior artwork had them as mostly still themselves- the titans and other legions were the worst affected by lolchaos.

Hell, even the Alpha Legion had more chaos corruption in the siege of terra-era artwork. Perturabo did carve a chaos star into his forehead, so...could go either way?

>>45350509
fucking love weapons with rending and Murderous strike.

They get you so giddy when you roll a 6 to wound.

>>45355187
Shame the weapon does fuck all unless you so roll a 6. Though with 5 attacks on the charge you're quite likely to do so.

Has anyone figured out a replacement head for Fulgrim yet?

>>45355305
Yeah I can't actually see much reason for taking him over a Praetor really.

I can't tell if I'm missing something, but it seems like he's just more expensive and you don't really get much for your points.

>>45350416
>Legiones Astartes: Salamanders

Hmm...

>>45355346
Fluff reasons I'd guess, FW seem to be trying to balance the legions and introduce a bunch of interesting if sub-optimal characters.

>>45350483
>this weapon is capable of spliting open even tactical dreadnnought armour
>AP 3

So RG players always seem to go on about how great rending flamers are when use that special ability for 1 turn... Can't Blood Angels vets do that literally every turn now with Hand Flamers and the Sniper rule?

>>45355453
>Capable=rending
>Competant=AP2

>>45355437
>Implying in the post-BaC 30k, anyone takes anything that's sub-optimal.

>>45355487
Twinlinked rending flamer.

>>45348112

Become my twin

We are Alpharius

>>45355505
>tfw my friend plays super cheezy
>another is know for breaing the codex/army book into an unbeatable list, but is a pretty nice guy
>i don't know enough about the other 30k players yet to form opinions
>I just want to make a cool semi-fluffy mechanized IF list using the stuff I think looks the best


It's going to be hell unless I can get them swayed towards ZM or some sort of campign where I'll have loyalist backup

Has anyone got the part of the scan that said DG now get Rad Grenades as default wargear, seems too good to be true

>>45355825
Don't play them. Solved. My army has been gathering dust for 6 months now because 2 faggots are bringing Typhons and/or Be'lakor shenanigans

>>45348172

Oh so White Scars just straight up get a two handed not ID paragon blade for all characters. Sweet.

>>45355894
>read post
>go on FW website
>see this
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Typhon-Heavy-Siege-Tank

???

>>45353094

>daemon princes were just chaos lords with over a certain points threshold in daemonic gifts

Kill me, I want to be happy again

>>45354105

We don't know. They can't even make up their mind if Peterabo is an obliterator

>>45355945
Probably being repackaged like the Rhino was, it now comes in a little box

anyone got a pic of Ophion, the new Night Lords character's rules?

>>45355915
Makes me envious as an Ec-aboo.

>Why don't WE get this superior duelling implement?

Does someone know if the AL Saboteur's restrictions on gear have changed ? Their special rules got changed, but I'm rather curious about potential new possibilities to equip them.

>>45356216
Phoenix Power Spears are similar but not as good in prolonged engagements. That said, we shouldn't be in prolonged engagements, we should be winning in the first round.

>>45356239

>special rules got changed

Wait


What

>>45356258

Their special attack is now resolved at AP 2 vs. vehicles and AP 3 vs. infantry.

There has been no word on their gear and / or cost though.

>>45356276

>AP3

Horry sheet

Suddenly my converted recon marines are going to be used. As individuals

>>45356244
True, but it being versatile is simply amazing.

Especially because we allready get more initiative with sonic screamers.

>>45355945
Was it already changed over to the Spartan's new one-piece tracks?

>>45356300
Long time ago, its probably a cardboard box repackaging.

>>45356289
Not anymore, look up new rules before you chat shit about wanting stuff.

>>45355880


Imagine if dark arsenal now lets squads buy phosphex bombs instead

>>45356532
The book isn't even out yet and I just dropüped back in after being out of the loop for the time.

Thanks for being so kind.

Let me rephrase it then:

"Woah, these things sure are amazing!"

>>45356712
Don't mind him.
As a fellow EC player, I'm not sure about anything until I see scans/photos.

>>45356532

What did they get changed to?

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>>45356190

>>45356822
we got the +1 initiative as part of our legion astartes rule.

shriekers now give the enemy -1 WS

>>45349432
Moritats don't benefit from ANY rules other than the ones in the CAL.
This includes options.

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>>45354482
>they're not one of the legions that can buy teleportation stuff for their termies like some of the others can
Yes they can, they're one of the few legions that can just straight up buy that

>>45357040
You need to read the moritat entry again. They may not benefit from any blessing powers, special rules granted by friendly models (such as a Primarch bonus, a Legion banner, etc), or Rites of War. Nowhere does it state they can not benefit from having a specific Legiones Astartes rule and any options that may come with that.

So abuse your BA Moritats while you can, if you are that kind of player. Or maybe try it out once just to see how dumb it is so you and your friends can laugh about it afterwards. Though I would say you do have to convert and paint one and then keep it locked up in your display case as an example of pre-pre-heresy brokenness.

>>45354482
>they're not one of the legions that can buy teleportation stuff for their termies like some of the others can.
But they can anon, they are one of the only legions that can.
In fact their new RoW lets everyone take them.

>>45357256
Oh, i'd never do something like that.
Or use moritats what-so-ever really.

>>45356856
thnaks, seems hes nothing special, cool shield and fluff though.

>>45357360
What, are you some kind of Salamander?

>>45357458
No I play the VII and having one asshole with double pistols and a wink doesn't work well with hiding behind a wall.

>>45349432
Why take two? One and an Inferno Pistol does everything double Hand Flamers do and more.

I'm building an Iron Hands army which hopefully I can take in 40k as well, and I have 2 questions
1. what weapons can I use from the Space Marine sprue that were around in HH? I'm guessing that the missile launcher and flamer won't be, but would the bolters/melta/etc. be fine?

2. as an Iron Hands player, should I get Vindicator tanks? I know they're fluffy, but do they actually add anything to my army, in both 40k and 30k?

>>45358722
I'm pretty sure most marks of stuff from 40k were around in 30k as well, excluding mark 7 and 8 suits. That being said, the Horus Heresy is more about evoking the feel of a certain time period and place in the history of the 40k universe, so just taking an entire army of 40k stuff into 30k is considered bad form, even if it's not entirely canon breaking.

I see we have an anon posting the characters. Can anyone post the Apothecary world eater? I got the gist but I want to see the points and details.

I lurked here but didnt see it, I'm digging the archives now.

>>45358766
I understand that, at the moment I'm only planning 10 guys in Mk5/6 armour which can get blobbed up with the BaC guys in 30k or form a tac squad in 40k, so then I'll have a decent core of cheapish stuff until the plastic heresy comes out properly, so hopefully it wont get too much

Outside of the quad mortar, which of the Rapier guns would work well for Zone Mortalis and regular 30k? The laser seems strong, but does it have a use in ZM? Quad HB seems like a nice corridor sweeper, but does it have a place in 30k battlefield? What about the graviton cannon?

>>45358812
Stop it, you won't find it in the archive.
It is in this album though:

http://s162.photobucket.com/user/m_r_parker/media/Events/HH%20Weekender%202016/262CFB3E-BC10-4D40-957B-84485D41F4EB_zps9id9eyih.jpg.html

>>45358722
I'd suggest just building a 30k army and running it as a 30k army when playing 40k.

Most things that are good in 30k suck in 40k like tac squads.

And a lot of the best 30k stuff is 30k exclusive. Like if you wanted some breachers or gorgon termies, which are both cool units, you can't actually run them at all in 40k.

>>45356712
>>45356723
Ok sorry anon, but we got buffed pretty gud so any bitching isn't really worthwhile.

Generic LA rules now gives +1I on the first round of combat (I'm not sure if its only if you charge as I don't have the book)

Sonic Shriekers now give enemes -1WS.

Kakophoni are now heavy 2 and you can take a RoW that makes them troops and relentless.

The RoW also lets you take sonic shriekers on anything bare termies.

So basically all of our units can effectively be +1WS and +1I on the first round of combat and Kakophoni are now pretty gud - so we turned out alright.

>>45359114
can you even do that? I thought that you could only play 30k armies in 30k

>>45358978
10/10 Thank you

>>45359341
You can, but 30k is generally underpowered compared to 40k. I saw a 30k vs Eldar batrep on the YouTubes and it was a terrible, terrible stomp.

Xiaphas Jurr counts his LD as 7 when making a psychic test ? 'Psychic Tests' are no longer based on LD in 7th ed. So, they whip out HH book 6 and can't even get the characters right for the current edition of the main rules ? What ?

>>45359433
you still need your LD for peril tests.

>>45359341
>>45359426
Really depends on the army; Legions suffer by far the most, particularly if they dont capitalise on the main advantages of legion list.

Mechanicum and Solar Auxilia perform alot better.

>>45359114

>Gahlan Surlak
>Gives any tac squad +1 strength and FNP 6+
>Any unit he joins get FNP 4+ increased to 3+ the new RoW
>Can buff any squad to give +1 attack, so tac squads get 5 on the charge

Holy fuck WE got good

>>45359547
Does that mean legions are underpowered within 30k, relative to Solar Auxilia and Mechanicum?

>>45359702

Not really but mechanicum and Auxilia are both quite good against Legions. It's just they can make builds that stand up to 40k much better than legions can

I've got the Calth box and I want to go Imperial Fists. Is a Sicaran and a couple of outriders a decent addition to that force? I realise I should get transports but I just painted 4 razorbacks and two drop pods for a different army and I'm kind of tired of metal boxes.

>>45359867
The Sicaran Venator could be a good choice too because it fills a gap you’ll definitely have in an infantry-heavy army – it’s practically a must-have if you ever go up against knights and super-heavies. But yeah, the normal Sicaran is great. Just be sure it does something that the rest of your army doesn’t.

>>45359652
I'm pretty sure any apothecaries in a detatchment he's in can also buff attacks.

On the page of his rules I saw there was a bit missing so I'm assuming it's that.

>>45359922

Good point, I was so distracted by the new things that I forgot about the roles they fill. In that case maybe a Medusa or three.

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Anyone know what these guys rules do?

I can't tell if there's meant to be another page with them but the dude who took the photo didn't include it.

Interesting that he has T5 and can be taken in a Blackshields army.

Is he meant to be a Blackshield himself?

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>>45360017

>>45360017

He's a Warhound who was away from the Legion while Angron was nailing everything and turning to Chaos. Now he's back from the fringes, seen how shit everything is, and turned rogue. So he's a Blackshield that identifies as a Warhound, in much the same way that Loken went back to being a Luna Wolf.
T5 is because he's hard as balls.

>>45360045
thanks anon.

These rules are kind of strange though - he has the old Incarnate Violence rule, but that only applies to him? And any WE unit he joins gets nerfed by Savage discipline.

I would've thought attach some kind of buff to Savage discipline though to make up for it.

>>45360179
I'll probably run him as a Blackshield rather than Loyalist WE then.

They seem like a pretty fun army to get into.

Are there any new titan legions/fluff/color schemes ?

>>45358722
Bolters are fine, the weapons are all fine, just maybe convert them to be in a more 30k style with a bit of greenstuff.

>>45352147
>Not having all 6 Wings rules laid out

shit/10

Do the unique blackshield rules apply to the entire detatchment and not just units with the LA rule?

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>>45360533

Doesn't look like it.

>>45360618
The rule is called Legiones Astartes (Blackshields) so won't work any differently than the regular Legiones Astartes (X) rules.

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>>45360618
Special rules only apply to units with LA(Blackshields)

Raldoron/Azkaellon when

>>45361667
Book 8 or 9 maybe.

any zone mortalis players here?

does the game break in any particular way if the board is slightly bigger? I'm building tiles that are 2.3" instead of the standard 2"

>>45362079
That shouldn't be a problem at all.

Many ZM battlefields are made of corridors and such, so sometimes it even helps (e.g. there are more places things like Dreadnoughts can fit, though you don't want to overdo it, they're not supposed to be able to go just anywhere). As long as you place walls/terrain properly it's fine.

>>45362079
.3" additional inches won't really matter. The FW ZM tiles aren't even exactly 1'x1' either.

>>45362207
>>45362235
Good to know, thanks. Same thing about wall thickness? My system would have rather thin walls, not the full 2" ones

>>45362258
That's fine too.

>>45362270
Danke, time to get to work on a full 6x4' board

>>45362552
Do Alpha Legion get one, and what's their fluff?

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>>45362570
It's just Autilon Skorr.

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>>45362570
It's Autlion Skorr

>>45362520
>>45362552
>>45362634

Man, take a minute to rotate the pictures at least.

>>45362612
Pity it's a limited edition model then...

>>45362692
Yeah kind of dumb of FW to do that. Granted, I was able to get both Autilon Skorr and Narik Dreygur at Adepticon last year. If you have access to recasters, just get the two models from them.

>>45362692
Hail China, saving us from limited editions and dead model ranges

>>45362719
Could use...suggestions for how to do that. Or at least a hint.

>>45362791
/r/yoyhammer

>>45362716
>>45362692
I got an authentic one on ebay.

>>45362860
thanks

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>>45362674
This guy is bafflingly good. I still can't get over how much better a 110pts guy makes a unit that is already far and away our best pick.
I mean, blob spam just got so much better...

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Still no Knight Errant page? Damn.

>>45363094
Shame he only has Power armour.
Although you'll combo him with a Praetor for MotL if want a beatstick.

>>45359212
Yeah I agree. Now I need to figure out a list that uses kakaphoni as troops.

>>45363291
It's not so bad, you can give the sarge AA and a powerfist to soak up AP3 and challenges. Unless you run into one of those multi-challenge units.

>>45362612
Poor Skorr. Alpharius is such a great dad.

>>45363291
He has no business being in a challenge anyway, so that's alright.

>>45363243
It's what I want.

I want to have weirdos leading my Myrmidons around.

>>45355894
Man, I don't have a clue what is optimal and was planning to add a typhon to my Iron Hands list as I like Vindicators and don't like the spartan as frontline tank.
Would you play against me if my you know that I also field Breachers?

>>45363364
Yeah, it's uncharacteristically dickish. Maybe Skorr just took it personally? Or the warmaster was pissed and Omegon got him out of the way asap?

>>45355894
Dude just take a Sicaran Venator and keep that Typhon locked down until you can swarm it with meltabombs.

>>45363094
He's actually better than that page lets up.

At the bottom, i'm pretty sure, is a note that says all other apothecaries in the same detatchment get his +1 attack to the unit but 1/6 chance of death rule.

I'm not 100% as I don't have the book but this is what other people have said.

>>45363661
Or maybe Alphy saw Skorr getting overconfident and complacent and saw fit to remedy that in the most roundabout, convoluted way possible.
Or maybe Skorr had some sympathies with the loyalists (or traitors) that the big guy didn't approve of and wanted him out of his hair.
Or any number of other, unlikely scenarios, really.
Alpha Legion, ladies and gentlemen!

>>45363804
>Alpharius: Skorr, go take over planet X
>Omegon: Skorr, go take over planet Y
>A&O: SKORR WHY THE FUCK HAVE YOU NOT DONE WHAT I ASKED. SKORR.
>Alpharius: FUCK.
>OMEGON: YOU.

>>45363532
Same my brother, its a bit funny that it hasnt been scanned yet considering its just one page. Patience is a virtue I guess.

>>45363364
>>45363661
>>45363804
Reading his fluff I'm thinking he's an ancestor of Cata Sicarius.

>>45364138
*Cato

>>45363661
>>45363804
It probably was Horus getting mad at Skorr and Alpharius, and Alpharius getting mad at Skorr for putting him in a bad spot.

>>45364237
Or hey, it might have been a legitimately horrible loss.

>Skorr you had two companies
>How did you lose to 16 dudes?
>They don't even speak the same language, Skorr
>And I'm pretty sure one of them was actually just a pile of babies in a suit of power armor

File: Nine Good Men.png (146KB, 314x496px) Image search: [Google]

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>>45364138
>Cato's drive for greatness is because of his family having a traitor in their history.
>>45364293
>>How did you lose to 16 dudes?
Sometimes you only need a few good men.

>>45364362
Or you could be fighting a force that needs to continually stop to make sure all its elements are actually seeing what it is seeing, and to not outpace the spaghetti supply.

File: KE.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

It's kind of hard to read, but the rules aren't all that different from the Garro PDF on FWs website. So cross reference with that if you can't read this.

>>45362692
Maybe the limited models are for their "old fluff" and the new crunch gets them a new, different model, later?

>>45364767
Even better, this years Event Only models will just be updated Autilon and Narik models...

>>45364757
ANON DELIVERS

>>45364757

>take knight errant, choose crusader
>wait until turn 4 and deep strike him behind cover in the corner of the enemies deployment zone
>free VP

>>45364757
Thanks anon!

Very dissappointing ammount of options.

>>45364956
>wait until turn 4 and deep strike
You must have some great reserve manipulation.

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>>45364757
>Psychic apothecary goes around casting prescience and giving FNP to a Primarch

>>45362880
More like you paid full price for a recast from eBay.

Anything on the possibility of the custodes rules?

>>45365069
I'm throwing up in my mouth.
I'm throwing up in your mouth.

>>45364757
sweet

dissapointed about the lack of custom options on the knight though

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>>45365256
How does this make you feel

>Psychic techmarine goes behind a superheavy casting prescience/5+ cover save and fixing it.

>>45364757
Psychic, servo-armed jump-pack sniper knights are a thing in the 31st millenium. What a time to be alive.

>>45365551
>sniper
Sniper rifles are still heavy.

>>45365590
I'm not saying it's good. I just think it would be hilarious both to model and to fluff.

>>45365642
>Turboknightassassin

>>45365692
>>45365551
Seeing as his backpack is taken up by his jump pack it's only logical that his servo-arm is coming from his crotch. Dispatching his foes with S8 AP2 cockslaps in the name of the Emperor.

>>45365149
Recasters never try to imitate Forge World packaging. If it was bought new, it's likely to be authentic.

>>45365149
A lot of people that buy limited edition models at events hold on to them and then sell them at a moderate markup. If you looked on ebay around when they came out it wasn't even much of a markup at all - shit, it was a better deal than the average GW clam pack.

>>45362552
>However, when making a Psychic test, Xiaphas Jurr must reduce his Leaderhip value to 7 for the purposes of that test.

Did FW forget what edition they're writing in again? Do they just mean for Perils tests? This is so random. Psyker Chaplain with a 3++ that hurts you back if he makes the save is pretty cool, though.

I really wanna know the fluff between him, Cassian Dracos and Narik Dreygur, and why they all have rules for being fielded together despite not having any obvious synergy.

>>45366467
LD7 is just for perils tests.

>>45365168
Most likely an allied only force. Other than that nothing else has been really mentioned other than 5 killed 20 marines easily in a play test a year ago.

>>45366648
Why not say that specifically then? Is this another one of those "future proofing" things in case 8th edition comes along and makes psychic tests based on leadership again?

>>45366800
Maybe, who knows.

>>45366800
Maybe, why are you getting so triggered by that? Are you autistic?

Considering there are rumors of a new edition this year I for one hope that FW just makes their own rulebook for HH.