So /tg/, what's with the quel'dorei?
Fluffwise they have this addiction with magic. As long as they use it and generically wield it, they are normal functioning members of society. As long as they haven't got it anymore, they become feral wrecks in need of a fix.
How does this work? Are they a heroin based civilization?
Does this particular kind of heroin influence their biology? Their eyes change to green with demonic magic intake after all.
Is it more insulin and less heroin?
They were addicted to the magics of the Sunwell.
Scourge invade, 90% of the population gets dead, and then Sunwell basically goes boom when Arthas rezzes his BFF Kel'thuzad into a lich.
Elves are devastated and cut off from their source of magic, causing them to go into withdrawals.
90% of the remaining 10% rename themselves Sin'dorei (children of blood) while the other 10% of the 10% remain Quel'dorei (only 1%).
It's thus addiction that leads Kael and friends to Outlands in search of salvation.
Fast forward to the end of BC and the Sunwell is restored. Nearly five years later and the elves are slowly getting back to the normal state that they were before the Scourge came and wrecked the place.
In short, it was a dependency on the magics of the Sunwell, so when it went they had to substitute it's immense arcane power with Fel, as Fel is more potent than Arcane, but more corrupting.
yeah, i know the history behind it, I just want to understand how the hell you can develop an addiction with withdrawal symptoms to what is essentially a tool, something you don't actually consume to live or to function normally on a day to day basiss, but you just use.
Does magic give you some enzyme? Do you need it to break down the carbs you eat?
It's not like if you accidentally break your smartphone, or your bike, or your electric toothbrush and cannot replace it anytime soon you get withdrawal symptoms?
* for beign something that metaphysical
What the hell do you want? It's Warcraft.
There's no explanation; it's addicting because the plot says it needed it be, there's no real explanation otherwise and there's no "science" behind it.
Not sure what you're expecting from Chris fucking Metzen. Why not expect a Monkey to play Mozart while you're at it?
>I just want to understand how the hell you can develop an addiction with withdrawal symptoms to what is essentially a tool
Consider it less of a tool and more an enviromental factor. The Elves used it and their bodies adapted to the arcane magic being around. Having magic in their system is normal for elves, and then suddenly their main source was gone.
It isn't exactly great for humans to live in complete darkness, is it?
The new expansion basicly has the same thing happen to other elves, so maybe arcane energy is inherently addictive and elves are especially vulnerable to this. I don't know, I'm not very well informed on Warcraft lore.
But magic isn't always just hand movements and incantations. As long as it's internally consistent, it can be whatever it wants.
Thanks, this seems sounder.
So it's basically like insulin for a people made of diabetics.
Does this imply that humans are less vulnerable than elves to magic? They did use it for generations without developing any drawback-like symptoms to it, after all.
Magic is inherently addictive in Warcraft
Elves live for thousands of years and they were all constantly exposed to it even the lowest commoner (or however low social ranks go in the Thalassian nation)
What source of magic do human mages/the remaining high elves use? No one knows. It's one of those wow plotholes
>No science behind it = bad writing
Do you even Fantasy?
Maybe, if so there might be some stuff in mage related content.
Blood elf stuff does seem to be a lot more magical than human civilisation, with floating light crystals and golems everywhere. Having a literal well of the stuff will probably make you use it more too.
There's plenty of inconsistencies and holes in wc lore (such as how no one ever mentioned magicaddiction before or after the plot needed belfs to succumb to it even though humans use it all the fucking time), but that they don't explain stuff in terms of modern scientific concepts is not one of them
That was for game population numbers. The Alliance used to seriously outnumber the Horde (just like in lore).
it's not that anything more specific than
>plot says so
must only be explained in scientific terms.
An author worth his salt should make an effort and either don't write bullshit stampeding over previously established background, or write especially awesome and well thought bullshit that gives an alternate interpretation over previously established background.
Obviously you need a richer and more detailed background to be able to do that, which again, warcraft should have had given the time the franchise has been around. I guess the authors weren't that good to begin with.
The inconsistency issues crop up mostly in Cataclysm and beyond. "Age of Mortals", the faction conflict, Alternate-timeline/Grom and/or Sylvanas getting away with everything while rubbing the Alliances' nose in anything emotion that's not Lawful Stupid, The Blue Warchief phenomenon, and so on.
I mean Varian Wrynn in MoP becoming "High King", invalidating the other racial leaders (and races) and the Alliance ceasing to be an alliance.
>I just want to understand how the hell you can develop an addiction with withdrawal symptoms to what is essentially a tool, something you don't actually consume to live or to function normally on a day to day basiss, but you just use.
put your smartphone in a locked drawer for a month and get back to me.
better yet, do it to a teenager.
Fuck that sht
Do you know why they did that?
Because the factions must be carbon copies of each other. For the horde, the leader of the poster race (orcs) is the faction leader, so obviously the same must happen for the poster race of the alliance
IT makes no fucking sense. First of all Nelfs and draenei aren't close allies but rather quite distant peoples with mutual interests
Second of all it is FUCKING IRONFORGE that is the powerhouse of the alliance. Stormwind was recently rebuilt after being genocided and spent at least three years under corrupt regency. And recently went fucking bankrupt as a le funny Westfall writing device after the Northrend war
Ironoge on the other hand, is loaded as fuck (all them minerals) and has a massive hardy army that has been destroyed in wars recently
Actually I went way ahead of myself there. IS that high king bs real? Source?
Anyway, it is symptomatic of what Blizz has been doing with both lore and gampley ever since the Pardinator was moved to Titan: Neutering everything and making it samey and functionally equivalent in all ways
Magic in all Forms is corrupting in WC. Remember that it's a game born in the 90s, which means a lot of grimdark. It's also the offspring of WHFB, which should tell you enough.
Also, Elves are highly mutagenic. Elves are actually Trolls that stuck around a source of Super-Magic, which made them mutate.
Then they split up and mutated again (Naga, Night Elves and High Elves), and after TFT they mutated again, into Blood Elves.
At least it used to be that way. Don't know if they retconned it. WC lore is as shitty and retcon-riddled as 40k lore.
>For the horde, the leader of the poster race (orcs) is the faction leader
did you miss the last xpac (understandable if the answer is yes, the next one is looking more promising)
>Stormwind was recently rebuilt
And its still a less-efficient city design than both Ironforge and Darnassus.
When flying mounts are considered, Darnassus and Thunder Bluff are by far the most efficient cities for each faction for players to use. A pity Blizzard limits all the exclusive vendors into the ones they wish to be capitals.
>IS that high king bs real? Source?
Play Mists of Pandaria, or suffer through Knaak's book Wolfheart. They effectively did a character-assassination on Tyrande to make Varian look good.
Did you miss the Legion expansion details? New Warchief in pic.
>They effectively did a character-assassination on Tyrande to make Varian look good.
That's also where warlocks contrivedly save Varian's life or something? Instantly making him like them and making fel magic explicitly unbanned
Again, the same shit, they do retarded lore-writing things to make all the game mechanistic categories equivalent. Can't have little Jim think warlocks are outlawed if that's what he wants to play after being exposed to our marketing mascots in Hearthstone
>Wasn't her plan to kill every living thing on Azeroth?
Likely still is, hasn't been retconned just downplayed.
>get Best Tauren killed and is pretty much despised by Trolls and Tauren?
No, that was the Grimtotems.
Vol'jin is "missing" and current quest content in the Alpha implies that Sylvanas really isn't trying to hard to find him.
No, its the Scenario instance called A little Patience or ALP. They write Tyrande in as an incompetent commander that Varian has to handhold Tyrande lest she get all her troops massacred. Even worse treatment in the books, but also spreading the stupidity bug to all night elves so that humans have to bail them out, as well as making Orcs into plot-driven ubermensch. There's even an achievement deriding Night elf fans.
Developer Kosak and author Knaak are universially despised by anyone who played Night elves in WC3.
>She is going to get the Kerrigan redemption treatment...
Duh. When your a fan favorite, you get away with everything. She'll probably stop being the textbook definition of Neutral Evil, and thus, interesting.
tfw no Zandalar in the xpac, I hope its a patch or something.
Why is Sylvanas even alive?
I remember 2 things about her, her hatred and desire to kill Arthas, and how miserable and depressed she was about being a undead.
I know Arthas is dead, so why doesn't she just kill herself?
Killed herself after WotLK, ended up in hell (or maybe illusion by the Old Gods) and thought it would suck.
In hell, the Valkyr contacted her and offered servitude. One took her place in hell and the others serve and raise new undead.
Now terribly afraid of dying, Sylvanas sees the Forsaken as her personal shield and is out to destroy any threat.
Every point in that story would set her up as a future villain, but it's still unlikely to happen because she's too popular.
Wait, what did they do to Tyrande? While i've dropped playing Warcraft post-Cataclysm, i've still vaugely kept up with the lore... but i missed that part entirely.
Also, what is Furion up to nowadays?
Her only real role in in WoW anymore is Malfurion's wife who worries at home. Malfurion plays a fiddle while his race loses people, land, and competence.
>Magic in all Forms is corrupting in WC. Remember that it's a game born in the 90s, which means a lot of grimdark. It's also the offspring of WHFB, which should tell you enough.
Yeah sure, but in warhammer lore magic is some sort of force not inherently natural, brought in the world when the warpgates fell, and previously used in its most refined and stable form by old ones and young elves.
This way, in the current setting elves are still corrupted in body and mind by its raw, unrefined power as much as the other younger races do, and most of all humans are extremely prone to be changed, twisted and mutated having been exposed much more of the other races (elves knew of its peril and dwarves just went into underground vaults until the fallout settled).
How can we justify wow magic being inherently addictive, while human mages are a respectable profession who don't always turn to be future warlocks?
>invite the Scourge to Azeroth because they want more magic
>break the continents because they want more magic
>kidnap an incarnation of pure goodness and turn him into evil because they want more magic
Have Elves ever actually contributed in a positive manner to the WoW setting?
>How can we justify wow magic being inherently addictive, while human mages are a respectable profession who don't always turn to be future warlocks?
Actually it's in the lore that any magic user will become an asshole. But it's largely that. You don't turn evil. And of course there's the part where the writers don't seem to fucking know that's howit's supposed to work
Also it has to do with elves living for a long time and thus being exposed to magic for a long time
>How can we justify wow magic being inherently addictive, while human mages are a respectable profession who don't always turn to be future warlocks?
humans don't live for hundreds of years essentially immersed in a constant flow of magical energy, and we've never seen a human mage get cut off from magical energy. For all we know it *could* happen
that gets covered, something happens with the blood elves and the humans, the humans refuse to help them and thrall offers to take them in, they joined the horde because of a lack of options.
Thanks for reminding me how WoW bastardized the setting that took quite an interesting turn into a mishap of popular culture references and bulwark fantasy cliches.
Its not really inconsistent considering elves are the only race that live for thousands of years. If your civilisation was drawing power from the sunwell for 10000 years and suddenly that power got cut off, it would cause some serious issues. and the reason they got corrupted was because they started using fel energy, fel energy is what causes the heroin withdrawals
>and the reason they got corrupted was because they started using fel energy, fel energy is what causes the heroin withdrawals
losing the arcane magic of the Sunwell was what caused them to go into the withdrawls that created the Wretched, Kael'thas making a pact with the Burning Legion for fel energy broke them out of it
what's the nature of the magical energy humans and elves use? iirc it has something to do with ley lines, and the various Wells are positioned according to that.
Does this not imply that magic runs all over the world in these lines?
Are human magic and elves magic natures different somehow?
>elves are the only race that live for thousands of years
Draenei live longer. There are NPC's that are over 25,000 years old and remember their homeworld.
arcane magic is drawn from ley lines, which congregate in places (IIRC Dalaran was built on a convergence of ley lines), during Wrath Malygos attempted to siphon all of the ley lines to Northrend to stop mortals from using magic, but he was killed and the process was reversed.
There is magic present across the entire world, but in Quel'thalas it was so omnipresent because of the Sunwell that even non-magic using Elves grew dependent on it
if you went from being neck deep in a lake to standing in a puddle you'd think it got pretty dry all of a sudden
and for obvious reasons there are very few Draenei that use non-spirtual magic
>Vol'jin is "missing" and current quest content in the Alpha implies that Sylvanas really isn't trying to hard to find him
Vol'jin is also very popular and I can't see them getting rid of him this fast, Sylvanas will likely be a stand in war chief but vol'jin will be back. I don't really care what they end up doing with her because as it stands she hasn't done anything that is beyond redemption. I always thought it would be cool if she went insane and seceded from the horde to create a 3rd all undead faction, but 3 way WoW sounds better on paper than it would work in practical use. because of her popularity she will either die honorably or have a happy ending.
>if she went insane
She already is insane, anon.
they decided to not make her a 1337 general, which makes perfect sense when you consider night elf lore. for one shes a fucking priestess and has been for 10,000 years, she has little to no military experience and not much of a track record in leading. night elves dont really care what happens in the real world as long as it isn't cataclysmic, their main focus is the emerald dream. night elves also don't particularly like any of the other races, and tyrande and malfurion are 2 of the original highborne aka super elitists. making varian the high king made perfect sense. dwarves are also too wrapped up in their own personal rivalry's to be considered as good leaders.
im talking holocaust on all living things insane, not just wanting to do it, actually doing it.
shes just raising some undead and defying the very laws of life and death, its not like shes opening up a national bank and charging 24% interest on new credit applications
a step at a time i feel this thing makes little bits of more sense.
a tangentially related question: were high elves immortal or just very long lived?
night elves lost their immortality when nordrassil fell, did high elves suffer the same after the sunwell?
fighting illidan and stopping queen azshara does not make you a decorated leader of armies. I know youd like some hot night elf priestess to be the leader of mankind but its simply not going to happen, ever.
Velen is dead, his apprentice would have been a good option tho, shes pretty badass.
Yea but the Draenei are the same race as the demons, they just happen to be the ones that never fucked around with magic. We know what happens to them if they fuck around with magic, and it's demons.
To be fair, Tyrande and Malfie did make some pretty big decisions in war during the War of the Ancients. And she led the defense against the Scourge/Legion in WC3.
She is also quite nice as far as night elves go i'd imagine, judging by her treatment of Broxigar. Malfurion seems to be a little bit of a stuck-up asshole, but Tyrande seems pretty chill.
The hero the night elves deserve coup d'etat when?
oh lol, that was not made very clear to me during the quests. I stopped playing WoD after season 2 but i guess they never took velens npc out of exodar? either way Yrel would make a better general than him.
afaik high elves were not immortal ever since they were exiled from the sundering. Bear in mind that Nordrassil was planted at the new well of eternity after the sundering.
It was Norzdormu's blessing of the tree that gave the night elves eternal life, so even before the war of the ancients, the night elves must have been mortal... right?
>implying it isn't Illidan
>implying Illidan did anything wrong
>spends 10000 years watching some dude thats locked in a cell
>lets him escape
>cosplays like an owl
>you think she would make a good leader
im not saying shes useless, she is definitely very important to the storyline. but she doesnt command the largest army, the humans and the dwarves are the only ones who could be considered as generals because they provide the most soldiers. Varian himself is quite an inspiring leader to boot.
unfortunately it seens that Blizzard will not use the characters of the alternative timeline in any other expations after WoD
it's a pity becase as you pointed out Yrel would make a better general
him taking in the demonic energy to beat magtheridon was justified. he was the hero they needed. but you either die the hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. hes also the biggest cuck in warcraft
there is also a quest in MoP where Varian proves his vastly superior understanding of tactics and battle strategy. if it were up to Tyrande she would have assaulted the temple without thinking twice and lost everything, she even admits he is a better leader afterwards.
Maybe not the largest army but the sentinels are thousands of years old and specialized in guerilla tactics in the very area that is the only place for the horde to get lumber.
Yeah, I think ashenvale should've gone in a different direction
Besides, speaking of lore, as mentioned earlier its unfitting that the alliance has to have a central leader figure. It always amde sense to me that while the alliance were the mroe numerous and had better armies, the horde were better suited for war situations as they're practically a military dictatorship
Yeah. I know this isnt a proper argument, but I stopped in wotlk and dont reallly accept any new lore after "there must always be a lich king"
But yes, if you go by Metzens new, improved lore, every person in warcraft besides Varian, Thrall, Anduin and Med'an are complete imbeciles
who should be warchief/ally leader
1. Garrosh "Donald Trump" Hellscream
2. Highlord Saurfang
3. Lor'themar Theron
4. Sylvanas Windrunner
5. Bane "Big Guy" Bloodhoof
8. Thrall Racetraitor
1. Genn Greymane
2. Council of Three Hammers
rest are shit
I'm so fucking glad Anime King is dying in the next expansion. I just hope they don't overload us with the Sylvanas fan pandering. She's fine but not THAT great.
>2. Council of Three Hammers
the existance of that stupid thing is where WoW lore became indisputable shit
>the Bronzebeard king dies
>gets replaced with Falstad "isn't Falstad dead?" Wildhammer and Moira fucking Thaurissan because "muh racial unity"
can't wait until Ragnaros gets summoned into the Great Forge
You and group should consdier questing together on a private serve while voiping.. It's not roleplaying but it is a LOT of fun and the classic game is extremely RPGishThat's gaming though and I understand if that's not what your group is after just putting it out there
THat's the encounter that touched off the entire debate. A 10,000+ year old general or guerrilla warfare can't counter a basic ambush, and thus cedes her forces to the blue God-Emperor of the Alliance.
This followed by Darnassus possibly getting the Theremore treatment in a beta for the Divine Bell, shit-tier books, Ashenvale and Aszhara. Malfurion eating 60% of her character stories, are why people hate the Lead narrative developer.
That and he's a self-admitted Sylvanas fanboy.
Saurfang in Wrath and Lor'themar in Mists both showed themselves to be strong and reasonable leaders. Lor'themar proved himself when Arthas attacked the Sunwell and I was very impressed with his leadership dealing with the Thunder King and Jaina "PMS Queen" Proudmoore. I only have Saurfang ahead of Lor'themar because he's and orc and tradition is important for stability.
Having Dark Iron dwarves around is the reason why dwarves are one of the only interesting races in the alliance atm. Also Muradin is beast.
Smartest thing he could have done. Look what Sylvanas and Varian have done to them in the short amount of time they have opened up.
That's the main problem with Blizzard storytelling. They are totally dead set on writing the Alliance as Lawful stupid despite fan protests, so its "hard" writing for the Alliance. Hence all the shitty quests in Cataclysm onwards, and all the Horde plot developments.
That's because of the fan backlash about nuking Darnassus like >>45344577 said. THey were dead set on nuking night elves, until the beta forums blew up and they changed it to Blood elves going rebel in Dalaran. They never changed her voice files, they are the original files from when the Divine Bell gets rung in Darnassus.
Btw, if this can be a genenral warcraft lore discussion thread, Ive been curious as to what happened to Garithos?
He died in frozen throne of course, but is neve mentioned in wow iirc, is it the alliance covering up a racist leader?
Because they can't face how shit Thrall was since Tide of war.
Seriouslly, Thrall's argument had no weight behind it whatsoever, its literally selfish incarnate.
And that laughable argument actually convinced someone because he is green jesus?
there's no real reason for it to be expanded on further
he was a shitty commander who let his mission fail because of personal prejudices and the Alliance lost Lordaeron and Quel'thalas because of it, what are they gonna do, demand Sylvanas pay reparations for betraying him before he could betray her? Send an SI:7 agent to Tempest Keep to arrest Kael'thas for desertion?
The dark iron dwarfs were never actually evil, they were just slaves.
The War of three hammer just a power struggle between the 3 dominant dwarf families, no one was EVIL.
Lore-wise, No one in the alliance really knew idea who Garithos is and what the guy was up to, hence why they sent all those reinforcement to him in the first place in TFT.
and the fact that Kirin Tor wasn't still there back in TFT lore doesn't help either.
>well he wasn't that incompetent in TFT
>treat foreign royalty and the leader of your only magical troops like a subhuman
>send him on a suicide mission
>when he somehow succeeds, put him in a court-martial and sentence him to death for not dying
>he fucks off and leaves you to die
>ally with rebel Scourge to kill the Scourge
>trusting elves after they let your kingdom and family die
>holding a defensive location is a suicide mission
>cavorting with the naga is a good thing.
>said naga were holding alliance prisoners and had been fighting the blood elves a few days prior
the dark iron dwarves were evil before summoning ragnaros, I think. Didnt Modgud taint grim batol with evil magic before thaurissan summoned him?
As for Garithos, its still odd that there isnt a single nod to him and his army when questing in hillsbrad. Its not that far from Dalaran and the other places he did his biz
Thrall's argument is literally just "I won't do shit to Garrosh, but you can't kill our dudes even through we killed your dudes and they fact that everyone of we Orcs helped Garrosh!"
I mean seriously,, who the hell will listen to bullshits like this.
Its said in ask Cdev.
"Despite the ad-hoc nature of his forces, other states recognized him as potentially the last remnant of Lordaeron's government and certainly the strongest warlord in the area. As such, officials from neighboring non-human states such as Ironforge and Quel'Thalas sent him aid, ignorant of his intolerant policies."
>>trusting elves after they let your kingdom and family die
it's not like they could have stopped it when they couldn't even defend their own kingdom
>>holding a defensive location is a suicide mission
against overwhelming odds with a force intentionally under-supported
>>cavorting with the naga is a good thing.
it is when it stops one of your only field armies from being destroyed
>>said naga were holding alliance prisoners and had been fighting the blood elves a few days prior
so they should have gone "nah, lets just die"?
They weren't really, The High King of Dwarfs back then was hold by House Anvilmar.
Only after Modimus Anvilmar, High king back then died the three biggest house began an in-fight. House Bronzebeard won and kicked the other 2 house out of Ironforge.
No one is evil when all 3 are acting like dicks.
>its not they could
they knew it was happening and were content to let lordaeron burn while they retreated to their forest magical realm
garithos' town was on the borders of quel'thalas and the elves let it burn down to a crisp.
Kael was doing fine waiting in that island and waiting for garithos to return.
he was an anvil and garithos was the hammer.
>Get thrown out of Ironforge
>Rebuild in Grim Batol and accumilate about as much wealth as in Ironforge
>Dark Iron gets so butthurt they attack two other clans
Wildhammer > Bronzebeard > Dark Iron
>but in the end he was right.
only in a self-fulfiling prophecy way
>orcs are inherently evil and should be exterminated
>orcs are forced to defend themselves from the Alliance even after leaving Lordaeron and avoiding all conflict with humans (other than Grom, fucking retard)
>Thrall realizes that no human other than Jaina will ever look at the Horde positively no matter what
Except that's utterly untrue.
Many Human worked with Orcs during the War before Cata,
Hell, They gave the position of Supreme Commander of Might of Kalimdor to an Orc.
Also, most Garrosh supporters are fresh young Orcs from Outland who never even faced a human in combat before.
Thus proving Orcs are inherently aggressive bastards.
Stop lying to yourself.
Orcs as we have seen from the latest expansion ARE in fact a super aggressive species, but considering that their homeworld was literally a hell hole where a majority of things were getting ready to kill them, it rather makes sense that their race would be seen as hyper aggresive in compasion with humanity or any race of Azeroth, seriously the whole ocean is filled with mushrooms that try to infect your brain. And isn't dreanor literally a small island on the world? Cuz I keep seeing a coastline off to the side of the large map.
While I agree the dickass elves had those things coming, he shouldn't mistreat his dwarf soliders.
Dwarfs are bros and the few who stood with Lordaeron even as other nations broke from Alliance.
Also, voice files hinting that Magni might return in new expansion.
It is one of the Continent in that world, there's supposly a large continent full of Ogres to the west.
And the fact that your life was hard is no justification for ruining everyone else's.
Saurfang was the sole reason alliance players didnt camp Orgrimmar 24/7 during vanilla
Jaina was cool but she went off the deep end and is in my opinion no different from sylvanas. I think it would be fitting for both of them to die at some point.
>nuking darnassus could have been a thing
why did they not do this, WHY, STOP LISTENING TO THE FANS
>dwarves acting like pretentious dick
sounds about right
Orcs are 100% warmongering psychos, but the whole reason thrall became leader is because his father and the frostwolf clan were the only orcs that thought peace could work. it makes perfect sense that once frostwolf leadership is taken away the orcs go back to their warmongering ways.
How is that a Deep end?
Dismantle your enemies power structure is a correct political move and generally does not involve genocide or any sort of"EVIL" actions
Hell both Nazi German and Empire of Japan was dismantled after WW2, no one ever called it evil.
Sylvanus has massacred multiple towns, Consist Primary of Civilians.
These include Southshore, Hillsbrad Fields, Ambermill , and
Survivors on Fenris Island would also be massacred if the Worgens didnt made it in time.
And Gilneas got lucky that Night elves's ship made it in time.
At the current point of story, Sylvanas is more evil than Arthas. Arthas at least had an excuse. (My soul got stolen!)
>Illidan did nothing wrong
Technically, he was doing wrong things, he just wasn't doing them to anyone on Azeroth. Then we went and kicked his teeth in because... reasons?
Something similar applied in WoD. We got this "oohhh the iron horde are gonna gitchu" buildup, but then soundly fed them their own teeth in five minutes and then went through the portal to keep on kicking them while they were down. We had more trouble tripping over elementals and mushrooms and ogres and crazy bird people than we did with the iron horde, and when we did get involved with the iron horde we just humiliated them so bad that they drank demon blood to try and get some of their pride back. The Alliance and Horde had no real reason to push into draenor and when they did they mostly just wasted their time and resources and made a bunch of shit worse. The whole time-travel-but-not-really aspect compounded the sense of empty futility. Oooohh, Velen died! But we have another one of him back home.
WotLK was a continuation of a lot of story threads and held a big threat to the rest of Azeroth that had to be dealt with; MoP wasn't very consequential, but that was ok since its appeal was more about exploring pandaria, with a lot of the same sense of the players just adventuring and following plots they found for the sake of their own curiosity that existed in Vanilla, and it broke up the monotony of world-shattering threats showing up every few years; and Cata obviously was built directly on top of all the old Vanilla stuff and affected everything we knew directly.
TBC and WoD, though, both were played up as being continuations of storylines but actually ended up feeling really disconnected from anything on Azeroth. I mean, obviously, different world, but there was a lingering sense of "why are we here again?" in both cases.
Dismantle the horde is the Teen rating way of saying "kill all of their leaders right now"
ok Jaina isn't quite sylvanas tier evil...yet. at least one of them needs to die.
no. it is saying, make sure they don't get to keep their MIC intact.
america didn't kill hirohito
>she is evil
no she is completely justified and the dragon dildo she has keeps her happy.
If I recall, undeath in WoW always has a tendency to make you evil. It dulls all the pleasurable senses, and it severs your soul from any connection to the powers of nature or the elements or really any positive divine force. It is possible to hold on to the Light but you have to be strong-willed to the point of insanity to force it to stay with you.
It's actually one of the really dark fucked-up things hidden in the WC lore: being turned into an undead, no matter who you were, damns your soul to the vaguely defined infinite darkness afterlife. Even if you were a super righteous paladin or something, the best you can manage then is to just be "put at peace", you can't join with the light or go to any of the other proper afterlives, and there's a good chance you get the howling torment that Sylvanas is afraid of. Only super powerful divine magic beings can get around it.
Well, unless you get brought back to life properly at some point. There are a bunch of things in WoW that can do that, but in all cases you need someone to do it for you.
Except that's never how DISMANTLING a power structure works.
In most cases, the victors will needs these old leaders to help them organize the new power structure.
Go study some history before talking out of your ass for once.
Jaina did NOTHING evil through out the story,
(Maybe turning on her father counts, but that's about it)
how is she even comparable to Sylvanas?
But he didn't, He used the power of Gul'dans' Skull to kill Tichondrius, which by every standard is a good act.
in wc3 when shes talking to her banshee servants her initial plan is to make everyone on the planet undead like her, thats pretty much textbook evil.
>Well, unless you get brought back to life properly at some point. There are a bunch of things in WoW that can do that, but in all cases you need someone to do it for you.
I never understood why anyone actually dies in WoW, literally every single priest, shaman, druid, and paladin can cast resurrect.
>or maybe sylvanas getting stabbed by yog saron's blood wasn't the most reliable view of the afterlife
Maybe, but it's still the case that undeath stops you going to whatever your normal afterlife is. There was a whole quest chain in northrend about a paladin looking for a cure to the plague so he could avoid that, the frost DK artifact quest in Legion has you fighting the ghosts of paladins who can't move on because arthas fucked them up, a bunch of hints across all the various undead-related quests that have you talk to ghosts, et cetera.
I wouldn't claim that it's not refuted somewhere or is going to be at some point, since it's Wacraft lore and consistency isn't even on the priority list. I just like it when there's some crazy dark shit implied in the background of this colourful cartoony game.
Like the dragon rape.
Yes Undeath is very unpleasant in WoW, Lore says you need to keep killing to stay alive as undead and every healing spell you cast will hurt more than getting hit in the crouch and giving birth combined.
But Then there's Knights of the Ebon Blade. They kept their sanity and turned their hatred and killing instinct on productive things, like fighting enemies of the world instead of massacring civilians.
So no, Sylvanas had no excuses, especially when they wrote that she wanted to kill her sister just so Vanessa can JOIN her pain.
she needs to die man, shes had a good run.
Ohhh really? I have played WoW on and off since 2005 but I have never completed any raids outside of raid finder or the pvp gear ones, so I miss a lot of the lore.
>I never understood why anyone actually dies in WoW, literally every single priest, shaman, druid, and paladin can cast resurrect.
It's a gameplay/lore separation thing. The players get easy resurrection because that makes the game more fun/less of a chore. In lore, though, bringing someone properly back to life is much harder. Divine resurrection in lore, for example, requires the will of whatever power you get your powers from - Drek'Thar once asked the spirits to bring his family back to life, and they refused, and when he got mad at them about it they took his shaman powers away. Anduin, mr pure pureness faith in the light himself, once managed to bring his dad back to life but it was treated as something that was unlikely to work and amazing that it did. Arthas tried the same for his horse once and the Light didn't answer.
Other forms of resurrection in lore always require some huge ritual and preparations and retrieving artifacts and such, or else the intervention of god-level entities. It's also generally the resurrection of someone or something that was very powerful themselves, so it's like their own power can give them an extra boost to getting back to life.
Elves are descended from a bunch of Trolls, the race that REALLY EASILY becomes other subraces, being twisted/blessed by the Well of Eternity. They're pretty magic-sensitive.
Humans, much like Dwarves and Gnomes, are descended from Titanic constructs afflicted by the Curse of Flesh. The Titans were well aware of how to make very stable beings, and I'd guess this carries over to Humans as well.
They helped get rid of the Amani alongside Thoradin's united Empire?
this + the way he handled Jaina just proves that Varian has a sense of honour. Keep in mind that when he was fighting in the arenas he became friends with Valeera, Varian must believe that not all horde are bad and he just needs to help the good ones. Also didn't Thrall recognize him as the missing king and was the one who initially sent him back to Stormwind?
It's more comparable to people who live in extremely high altitudes and get used to the thinner atmosphere and then have problems with breathing when they come down closer to sea level.
I never liked Varian, but lately they've sucked away even the stuff that tried (poorly) to make him interesting, in what seems to be an attempt to recast the Alliance into purely noble perfect good guys. It used to be like "the alliance has high ideals and civilization but also have scheming nobles and corruption" and so on; the humans had prestor and the trouble with the defias, dwarves their three hammers, gnomes the treachery that lost them their city, et cetera. And balancing that, the orcs, tauren and trolls were barbaric but basically all honourable and loyal to each other.
Not counting the night elves or forsaken, in either case. They were later additions to both sides and there was a period where it wasn't certain what faction they'd be in or if they'd even be in the alliance or horde. The belves and draenei, too, were added later.
They've taken out every last shred of the alliance having any flaws, though. Like, literally, if you look at the pandaren faction selection descriptions, the horde description gives them some moral ambiguity, but the alliance one doesn't admit to anything potentially bad.
its the exact opposite, Varian hated the Horde (especially Orcs) for his time in arena and before,
He only became more open minded after WoTLK for no reason (in reality its because Jaina was written to be more aggresive.)
Horde had no Honor, why would you fight the with it?
I could really care less who dies or lives, its a fictional story. I really like Jaina too, whats not to like about a hot blonde mage? I think for the sake of telling a great story then someone important needs to get off'd every now and then.
wasn't Prestor Onyxia in disguise? that doesn't really count as a human. I hated Varian before because I didn't know anything about him, I'm actually impressed with how they've developed his character, he truly fits the role of the noble king that has to make all of the difficult decisions, you can see it on his face in every cut scene.
thats not quite how honour works. showing mercy and diplomacy towards someone you hate is a perfect example of honour. its like the generals in ww2 that condemned the execution of enemy soldiers who surrendered. If some asshole had spent the last few hours trying to kill me and then threw his hands up right before I was about to pull the trigger, I would feel very much inclined to shoot him.
He built the Wall to ward Gilneas from the Outside.
Worgen Curse happened much later and had nothing to do with that wall.
then you are terrible at writing stories and should never ever talk about how to write stories.
If you have to kill a character to write story then you are at least as bad as the talentless hecks WoW is currently using.
Yeah and horde didn't have any honour. so why bother using it on them?
lor'themar? i dont think so, lorthemar uses a different hairstyle, also, i think he was under sylvanas orders and secretly in love with her before she became undead, though im not sure about this
>wasn't Prestor Onyxia in disguise? that doesn't really count as a human.
The fact that a shapeshifted dragon was able to swan in and just pretend to be a noble, to the point that she got to stand as an adviser in the throneroom, doesn't say much for the competence of the human aristocracy.
There's also the fact that the stormwind royals hired the mason's guild to rebuild stormwind and then never fucking paid them, so the newly-impoverished labourers became the defias brotherhood.
>he truly fits the role of the noble king that has to make all of the difficult decisions
Varian was whipped out of nowhere, we got told how cool and badass he was in a comic that literally recycled Thrall's backstory of being a gladiator slave, used the same "oh i was split into good and edgy halves" plot device I used when I was thirteen fucking years old in my sonic/pokemon fanfiction, then we got to see him scowl and try to look like a cheap anime antihero but do all of jack shit, then suddenly he's a flawless generous noble leader doing all the right things.
I don't like him.
>because hes an orc, he believe peace is an option but hes still an orc
I think >>45348105 is referring less to Thrall liking peace and more to the fact that Thrall was, himself, enslaved as a gladiator by humans and treated like shit for most of his childhood and adolescence.
I never said he was doing all the right things, he is just making all of the difficult choices. and he makes a much better king than cuckduin would. the re-hashed thrall story is kind of lame tho
This. The guy abolished CLANS because of his ideals of a better Horde. He took in Trolls and Tauren and Ogres and put them on the same level. You'd think the one thing he'd outlaw was slavekeeping and making slaves kill each other.
The well of eternity had caused a permanent aura over the whole world after the first war of the ancients. Add in Ilidan creating a backup WoE, and the Quel Dorei making an artificial one in the Sunwell (also a FuckYou to the moon hippies) there's a lot of very useful supernatural radioactive demon-baiting fallout in Azeroth.
question, night elves all worship Elune (which fyi is 1 letter short of Selune, the DnD goddess of the moon, GJ Blizzard) do blood elves worship a sun god? or did they just say fuck you Elune after the sundering? all elves used to highborne correct?
Wrapping it all up then:
>arcane magic is inherently addictive.
>elves are a strain of mutated trolls, and due to having been mutated by the well of eternity they do have a particular vulnerability to the arcane magic. Still highly mutable given that night elves, nagas, high elves and bloodelves all have a "common ancestor".
>possibly, you also develop addiction to arcane magic over centuries of using it, and that's why humans just use it all the time but brush it off like it's nothing. They don't have time to develop the addiction because they naturally die sooner. Also, draenei live longer than anyone but they don't use arcane magic because they would become red skinned eredars or brokens/lost ones.
>night elves abstained from using arcane magic, preferring divine and nature magic, and so they are not addicted to it. They still can percieve arcane magic being used, being still creatures somewhat attuned to it.
>highborne among the night elves used arcane magic all the time, becoming addicted to it. After the war of the ancients, the ones still alive and not turned into nagas become high elves, and try to placate their addiction through the Sunwell in Quel'Thalas.
>magic is all over the world due to being related to the ley lines, but Quel'Thalas is saturated by it, making high elves desensitized to "background radiation", and making this normal flow of magic just not enough for their addiction.
>after the sunwell is destroyed, Kael'Thas trades arcane magic with fel magic to keep the now-Blood-Elves from withdrawal symptoms.
>now blood elves are free from the fel energies, and feeding their addiction on the light of the Naaru or something?
Is this fixed yet?
What would be good for anduin would be for him to have some sort of story with Bolvar, he seems to be coming back in Legion. Anduin is basically the same sort of ideal good guy as the other big Light-wielders, Velen and Uther and Tyrion and so on, but their advantage on him is that they're all old dudes who have seen a lot of shit, so their faith in goodness and the light comes off as impressive rather than, as in anduin's case, annoying.
Anduin still seems like he's spoiled, really. He's only ever seen scraps of action from behind someone protecting him (a player character, for example) and his big solo adventure was in pandaria, where he was still constantly running into nice people who were looking after him.
Fighting the occasional monster doesn't count, either, Anduin needs to go through some real fucked-up shit, something that he can actually demonstrate being actually tough or brave against. Then we can respect him.
> means the only good story you have is someone dies.
And this is why WoW's writing now is shit, because the writing department is filled with retards like you.
These black dragons have very powerful spells that other dragons have difficulty going through them, let alone a bunch of mortal human noble with no magic power.
Korialstrasz burned his eye just for trying to divine through deathwing's disguise.
You have it backwards, Varian was written to be less warmongering because the writers were shilling him and they had noticed that fans didn't like him, but then they realised that if he wasn't warmongering, the entire alliance side would be peaceful, so they ruined Jaina's character to make her warmongering instead so everyone would like Varian instead of her. Because doing that always works
I do not know what happened to the writing team around Cataclysm, but every decision made by them since then has been monumentally stupid
>but every decision made by them since then has been monumentally stupid
Well, they did give Taran Zhu one seriously sick burn on Garrosh.
I also liked when Wrathion got lectured about how the Horde and Alliance conflict was ultimately beneficial because without it no-one would have bothered becoming strong enough to defeat threats like the Lich King or the Legion.
... even though that wouldn't actually make sense if Azeroth's various militaries didn't have limitless respawning numbers and resources. There really shouldn't be an able-bodied adult orc or human left by now.
such as watching an important character die before his eyes, while hes helpless to save them? maybe someone like ohhh i dunno, Jaina?
Varian dying and him having to become king would also be acceptable.
>NO ONE CAN DIE IN A WAR THEMED STORY THATS FULL OF DEATH AND WAR, ESPECIALLY NOT CHARACTERS THAT I'VE GROWN EMOTIONALLY ATTACHED TO
thats you, thats what you sound like.
well they had to get the original idea from some where
so the only god in the game is the goddess of the moon? or is she just the goddess of everything?
are you done with the strawman or you have a real argument?
Oh wait you don't, that's why you have to keep doing this.
WoW writing is shit now is exactly because idiots like you on the writing team think just kill off some important character will make the story good.
Learn something about writing before talking, retard.
>There are no other Deities.
The Eternals, Celestials, Titans, and Old Gods are all basically deities. The only difference to Elune is that she's more actively worshiped like a deity, and that she doesn't go physically walking around on Azeroth like all the others do/did.
Actually, Elune is about on the same level of the tauren Earthmother. Both have races who worship her, invoke her name for things, and attribute their divine powers to her, and neither actively participate in the world or have been known to actually do anything outside the most distant mythology of the past.
If WoW was actually competently written I think it'd be cool if the Earthmother turned out to be, like, an Old God who was benevolent. Like, the Titans are supposed to be good guys overall but we know they can be huge assholes, so why not let there be a reverse where there's one or two old gods who aren't too bad?
It'd never happen though. Can't deplete the supply of potential raid bosses.
>such as watching an important character die before his eyes, while hes helpless to save them?
Nah man, not good enough. He'd have to be, like, literally responsible for their death himself in some way. Something that could potentially shake his faith, so he can demonstrate he's actually got real guts by keeping it up. If someone just died in front of him that he couldn't save he'd just regret it, it wouldn't really bother him long-term.
all of your responses have been the exact same, you haven't provided and undeniable facts as to why it would be a bad thing if jaina died. the only conclusion that I can come to is that you have 50 posters of her on your bedroom wall and would lose sleep over her death.
what if it was some really sadistic shit like, someone was held hostage and he was told they would be executed if he was unable to complete a certain task, or win a fight against a strong opponent. he gets his shit kicked in and the person dies because hes too weak to protect them?
I never said anything about its a bad thing for Jaina to die, which is why I said you are strawmening
I said just killing Jaina won't make a great story, which you had no respond to from the start, thus I call you out as a retard.
You are bad at writing and worse at reading.
and now you are resorting to petty insult to try to anger me instead of rebulk your point, thus proving you are nothing but a childish troll.
Look in the mirror and see how pathetic you are, it will help you with your life choices, really.
They've also tried to imply she could be a naaru, and her "only true god" status wouldn't hold up if that's true. Though it makes me think of a naaru trying to have sex with Malorne, and that amuses me. Even if not, though, Cenarius is a demi-god, if Eternals are demigods as well then Malorne is too, so like... Elune had sex with a demigod and made another demigod? What's the distinction between a demigod and a "true" god supposed to be? What makes Elune different from all the others?
And in tauren mythology, Elune was made by the Earthmother, she's one of her eyes, which would make the sun also a god. The tauren myths might be wrong but who are we kidding it's a fantasy game, myths are ALWAYS true.
So now you are delusional enough to think you can fuck a fictional character?
Seriously, how pathetic are you?
Also there are plenty of high quality 3d Jaina NSFW materials already, I doubt you can top their work.
An Night elf warrior priest requested her aid to fight the demons and she sent the scythe to her so she can use its power and worgens to drive demons back.
She failed to control it and Worgen went rampart and things went south after that.
Curse of The Worgen is a completely different thing, the scythe merely open the gateway that bring worgens back to Azeroth.
Night Elf priest waited, the wisps above her blinked and sparked out of the air. There were demons in the woods. She didn't see them but had expected them now for years. Her warnings to Cernal Cenarius were not listenend to and now it was too late. Far too late for now anyway.
Priest was sentinal for 14 years. When she was young she had watched the mages and she said to dad, "I want to be the mages daddy."
Dad said "NO! you will BE KILL BY DEMONS"
Only the Zandalari who followed Zul.
King Rastakhan sat on his hands while Zandalar began to sink beneath the waves, and Zul claimed he was prophet that would unite the troll tribes into a glorious new empire once again. Rastakhan, again, did nothing- and most believed it was a sign of ineptitude or lack of the Loa's blessings, despite Rastakhan basically being the trolls' version of the Immortal God-Emperor. Zul left with most of Zandalar's population while Rastakhan remained on his throne, seemingly confident that the Loa would deliver his people from the Cataclysm. Either that, or he was frozen with inaction.
Some think that Zandalar is now like pic related, that the Loa told Rastakhan that allowing his kingdom to slip into the sea was the proper course and that Zul lacked any real faith in the Loa, instead doing the logical and trying to find land elsewhere.
The Scythe of Elune was created by a night elven priestess, who combined a holy staff with the Fang of Goldrinn, the ferocious Wolf Ancient, in an attempt to marry Elune's boundless serenity with Goldrinn's endless ferocity. It's the reason that the druids under its sway transformed into worgen rather than worgs, and it worked for a time- but Goldrinn's presence slowly overtook them, and it wouldn't be until thousands of years later that further rituals would be created to soothe the bestial spirit within them.
Velen believes that she is a naaru, but the concept of a benevolent, holy power that does not ultimately stem from the naaru is foreign to him. The lore devs have stated she is the only confirmed "true deity" of the Warcraft universe thus far, and is neither a naaru nor a Titan. Granted, they could retcon that any moment.
Yeah I don't buy that explanation.
Also I'm an oldfag Warcraft lore nut who still believes the Naaru are just weird light-infused space aliens and not the actual source of the power. A'dal basically being a god is retarded.
Naaru are basically Light elementals. A'dal is to the Light what Ragnaros was to fire. They're not the source of the Light by any means, and the draenei make that abundantly clear that the naaru are not messengers/angels/what-have-you, but paragons that exemplify the purity of the Light.
That doesn't change the fact they're essentially treated as deities. I was willing to swallow a lot of BC's lore rape because it was implemented in interesting ways, like the captive Naaru underneath Farstrider Square. It made the Blood Elf paladins *really* interesting to me as well as the whole lore behind their race. Then they were forgiven by A'dal after essentially crucifying a Naaru because apparently the Naaru they captured knew if it's fate beforehand and willingly accepted it.
And now the Blood Elves are all suffering from magical addiction but it's entirely self-inflicted because the game outright tells you when you make a Blood Elf character "oh if only they would worship the Light then it would free them from their magical addiction but they're too proud to accept that yet."
Fuck you, Blizzard. You took awesome concepts and replaced them with The Gospel According to A'dal.
I'm hoping that at some point, it turns out that all naaru started off as void creatures.
Like, we all know naaru who are damaged enough turn into a soul-sucking void monstrosity, and they eat souls to heal, and the sacrifice of a really super-light-powered soul (like Velen) can heal one all the way back to it's light form as well. And there's a super-voidwalker boss in the shadowmoon orcs dungeon that's there eating souls, and when you engage it in its fight it tells you that eating your souls will "fuel it's ascent" from the darkness.
So, naaru are good, but they don't CHOOSE to be good. When they're in one life-stage they're evil and when they're in another they're good, because that's just how their weird magical energy being biology works.
It would fit with the weird space theme that was set up for the twisting nether, back in TBC. Voidwalkers are themed like black holes, and naaru are the theoretical "white holes" that exist at the other end. It also fits the idea of them being the Wacraft version of angels, because one of the key things about angels is that they don't have free will: they're good, but that's because they've been made to be that way, not by their own volition.
I also wonder if Naaru could be related to the old gods, since they're both linked to priests, have powers over flesh and blood, and are telepathic.
See, I liked the old priest lore. They didn't have magic per se, they were just ordinary humans, but by sheer will and conviction they were able to make miracles happen. A priest believed so fully that the Light would protect or heal them that their spirit actually manifested a miracle. Now it's just given to them by Space Jesus. And as I mentioned before, the analogue of the Blood Elves and original sin just sends me into maximum oversperg.
Wasn't arcane magic described in the whole blue dragonflight/nexus arc in the Lich king expansions as ley lines established by the ancient titans being manipulated and abused by the mortal races?
Another guy who obviously didn't read the lore at all and just believed some random dude on the internet says.
Priest and Paladin's power still work exact the same as before
Naaru are just embodiment of light, an example of what light is, they don't grant anybody the power of light nor are they the source of light.
Crazy psychos like scarlet crusade and dead guy still cast light abilities with sheer belief , having no connection to Naaru whatsoever.
Its always hilarious to see idiots who have no idea what they are talking about complain about the lore.
>possibly, you also develop addiction to arcane magic over centuries of using it, and that's why humans just use it all the time but brush it off like it's nothing. They don't have time to develop the addiction because they naturally die sooner.
urrd... didn't Valeera stil addict to magic and still very young ?
There was a period during BC where every comically elongated eyebrow waggled in the direction that the Light flows from the Naaru and did all long, and that it had some connection to the other elements through the lore of the Draenei shamen. Whether that was backpedaled on or simply never followed through with I don't know.
I guess you can go with the main theory, that is "elves are more prone to arcane magic addiction", that is Valeera being an elf gets to be addicted very young.
Other interesting points can be
>Are high elves/blood elves children BORN with the addiction or they just develop it with use really early on?
>Will a high/blood elf newborn be spared from the addiction if raised in a magic free environment?
>How much do they need to use magic to get addicted? Is just one spell sufficient?
Elune is the Tauren equivalent of Mu'sha, one of the Eyes of the Earthmother, alongside An'she, the sun
because of the influence of night elven culture on Tauren society, reverence of An'she was mostly ignored in favour of Mu'sha or the Earthmother as a whole, until Cataclysm when Sunwalkers and Tauren priests worshipping An'she (as a stand in for the Light because dude syncretism lmao) became a thing
I think elven children are born addicted, after all, their mothers are bathed in arcane magic their whole lives, so it only makes sense that their mothers dependency is passed on
That's only one of several theories that have been speculated. Another is that she was Alexstrasza, or Eonar, one of the Titans who also has life powers.
The idea of the Earthmother being Elune doesn't really hold up too well, since the tauren do canonically have their own name for Elune already. They call her Mu'sha and believe that she's just the left eye of the Earthmother. The right eye is An'she, the sun, who tauren paladins and priests get their power from (or believe they get their power from, anyway).
The earthmother saw some shit she didn't like so she tore out her own eyes and sent them spinning across the sky, and that's their origin as separate beings from her. So if anything, Elune is like the Earthmother's daughter.
It's implied that it's basically a part of their physiology. Night Elves don't have the problem because they had the World Tree and were surrounded by Moonwells from which they channel their own nature magics. The Highborne, at least the ones in Dire Maul, all channeled their magic through demons, which is why the Library is still full of 10,000 year old elves. High/Blood Elves though are even more addicted to magic than the Highborne are due to generations of living in proximity to and drawing heavily from the Sunwell. When it went kaput it was like opioid withdrawal for everyone. They can overcome it through sheer force of will but like any addiction it's difficult and a constant headache. The lore now says they can supplement their addiction by using the Light, hence the original sin analogy.
Humans aren't addicted to magic because they weren't raised next to magical nuclear reactors and only a scarce few of them even know how to channel it in the first place.
That was never used
By the end of the TBC is was explained that Blood knights were just using what Mu'ru had in him instead of actually calling the light because they didn't believe in the light.
The light works as long as you BELIEVE you can use it, nothing else is required.
I think it has less to do with an individual elf's addiction to magic, and more to do with High Elves as a subspecies.
Trolls, and by extension Elves, have a pretty strong tendency to adapt to their environment over several generations. After 10,000 years (and more, considering how much magic was thrown around in Night Elf society) adapting to both exposure and use of magic, their bodies have integrated it into themselves more and more. It's why they, and to an extent Pre and Post Sundering Night Elves, have glowing eyes.
Given a few generations to wean themselves off of magic, and you'd have a whole new kind of Elf. But instead they got the stuff ripped away from them, quite painfully.
I feel like, way way back in the lore, like in the WCII manual or something, there was once some reference to high elves once having druids. And like, they had mostly died out, but some elements of druidism had been passed on and survived as part of the ranger traditions.
And I think I read some WCIII-era source that said, when the high elves' ancestors were banished by the night elves, a few druids went with them, and that's why they once had some druids but they didn't last long?
Does anyone else know of anything that backs that up?
IIRC (it has been a LONG time since I looked into Warcraft lore, and by "long time" I mean "pre-WOW") the elves are only sapient because of their connection to magic. It's like saying "why is my Roomba addicted to electricity?" The implication is, if they were to go for long without a source of magic they'd revert back to whatever primitive beast-people they were before.
But as noted, all by Warcraft lore knowledge stems from the pre-WoW era, and I suspect much of it had become invalidated by now.
High Elves diverged from Night Elves when a large percentage of the "Highborn" caste began using Arcane magic, many species in the setting seem to have very mutable physiologies and their bodies just adapted to arcane magic as their natural environment.
Night Elves might have diverged from trolls after prolonged exposure to the Well of Eternity.
Exposure to Fel magic corruption turns Night Elves into Satyrs.
It remains to be seen what exposure to Holy energies from their Naaru infused well will do to the Blood/High Elves in the future, but I wouldn't be surprised if they started sprouting crystals or wings or shit.
IIRC blood elves are a secular society. They essentially worship the Sunwell and the magic that it provides. Even the Blood Knights, the blood elven paladins, didn't get their power from faith in the holy light originally, they siphoned it from a Naaru using arcane/fel magic.
There's also "Nightborne" though it's unclear how their power source differs from fel and arcane since they became drow versions of Night Elves instead of growing fur and hooves like satyrs or diminishing in size and strength like High Elves.
No, the scythe is actually a super powerful divine staff strapped to the tooth of a demi-god of feral rage because some Night Elf decided "you got chocolate in my peanut-butter " was the way to go with these artifacts and that this was the best idea ever.
I remember that. It was a cool questline but the implication pissed me off. It's like there's only one correct way to live (the Light) and anyone who chooses otherwise is doomed to be corrupted by demons/magical addiction/their world tree goes boom/elemental chaos.
And there's no actual explation of what happened.
The fact the quest line is designed to be a memorial for the actual guy who died in real life instead of a actual lore quest doesn't seem to get into head of edgy idiots
Of course it would looked like christianity because that's what the quest was about!
If you think about it, the cult of elune is as old as night elven history.
Night elves are descended from trolls, for whom old god worship was the main form of religion...
Coincidence? I THINK NOT!
>If you think about it, the cult of elune is as old as night elven history.
>Night elves are descended from trolls, for whom old god worship was the main form of religion...
>Coincidence? I THINK NOT
LOA worship is the ONLY form of Troll religion, however Loa can mean ANY powerful spiritual entity, so ghosts, demi-gods, and even bizarre aberrant echos and offspring of Old Gods or Old Gods themselves can be(Mistakenly in the latter cases) be worshipped as Loa.
I hate that that's the only Class Hall I'm really excited about in Legion, which means I'm gonna have to blow my level boost on my fucking Warrior alt that's been collecting cobwebs for years.
In Warcraft magic is extremely addictive and extremely mutagenic.
Trolls got exposed to arcane energy and became frigging elves.
The sunwell mutated those elves in the sun elves.
We're speaking of people with a 1000+ years long addicition
Sylvanas still has affection (in a strange and twisted way) for blood elves.
Prob she's just losing her sense of right and wrong.
Even the valkyrie shows how she's coming to see the undeads as a "true" race.
Motherly instinct kicking in post-mortem?
She didn't end up in hell. After she threw herself off of the top of Icecrown citadel after she saw Arthas broken body, she died, but she didn't end up in some heaven or hell to greet her ancestors. She was trapped in an eternally empty limbo because her soul is gone, taken and consumed by Frostmourne. The Val'kyrs brought her back and now she's afraid to die.
She's not destined to be trapped in the empty limbo because she's evil (to some), it's because she's undead with no hope of everlasting rest.
I mean, when you consider that she was originally just trying to protect her homeland from Arthas, and now shes got an eternity of darkness and solitude to look forward too, you really can't blame her for being upset. that still doesn't justify any evil she does, but dam thats a shitty situation. Hopefully Anduin becomes SSJ priest and finds some way to put her to rest.
Unless he can make a new artificial soul for her or some shit, he can't do much.
I wouldn't put it past Blizzard to take another "NE can now be mages"-lore shit on all their fans just for Sylvana's sake.
Life, not existence.
She's gone all the way to provide a future for the forsaken.
Headcanon is that she sees herself as the "mother" of the forsaken, and has come to believe undeath is the one way to weather this world
I, for one, fucking hated that Metzen's Green Jesus killed him and didn't take responsibility AT ALL for Garrosh.
I would have enjoyed a Redemption Arc much more when it comes to my favorite Orc.
after several failed attempts at that mission in wc3 I was pretty happy to see him do that
>im here for the sunwell, get out of my way or ill kill you
>good luck im behind 7 elf gates
>you fucking cunt
Their Queen and her followers turned into Naga and her General was twisted by Sargeras into the first Satyr. And the Burning Legion invaded Azeroth.
All of this because of the usage of Arcane magic by Night Elves. But hey, let's say "fuck the rules" and introduce arcane magic to the Night Elf society again. I mean, what could go wrong?
Definitely a satisfying moment.
Demons corrupted her leadership and invaded her home.
Will you offer her shelter, or will you deport her back to Draenor where she initially fled and where locals are openly hostile to her people?
There were already night elf mages back in Vanilla, just not playable by player.
It is in fact the least problematic class addition.
And your head canon is wrong according to the actual canon books describing her action.
Sylvanas is a sadistic asshole who wishes everyone to suffer like she does, its the offical lore.
this is what bothers me about WoW. It literally makes no sense to me why the night elves would join the alliance. Same goes for the Forsaken joining the horde. I know they had to make it happen for game mechanics and stuff but i think the game would've actually been decent if they made 4 factions.
Yes and that's why she was a banshee at the assault of Sunwell stage.
But she later put her soul back into her body before TFT and that why she is corporal as a dark ranger instead of banshee..
Get your lore updated already.
Actually he did one thing very wrong, by racial biasing other Horde races and pissing off every other racial leader in Horde.
There's literally no good reason for this bullshit.
This is the latest canon about Sylvanas
>The Forsaken's ruthless leader is a formidable champion of her people. But with the Burning Legion's invasion, the stakes for the Dark Lady have never been higher. Should Sylvanas perish, her demise will be the beginning of her eternal damnation. All that stand between her and this doom are her Val'kyr, yet few of these spirit guardians remain. As her fate edges closer to the abyss, Sylvanas must decide how far she'll go to protect her people… and whether they're more precious to her than her soul.
So she will either sacrifice herself for the Forsaken and face eternal torment as a reward for selflessness, or abandon the Forsaken to protect her soul likely resulting in a raid boss status and eternal torment anyway.
I don't like either option really because muh waifu but them's the beans.
Only those who followed Azshara.
Some Highborne become high elves while
some lived in Dire Maul for many years.
The Diremaul highborne rejoined Night elf and
player NE mages are suppose to either be these guys or new mages who were trained by them.
aren't the Broken the result of Draeneis fucking with magic
>Get your lore updated already.
Not my fault her lore was retconned to hell and back. Nevertheless, it's stated numerous times that her soul is lost before the retcon, and with a soul present, how do you explain her ending up in the Empty Abyss? Can't be her Undeath alone.
its blizzard and they like to pander, she will have a happy ending. is it cannon that frostmourne cannot be destroyed or tampered with? her soul would be inside that sword would it not?
picture it the alliance would be humans, dwarves, gnomes, and draenei. The horde orcs, tauren, trolls, and goblins. The Sentinel could be night elves, furbolgs, mountain giants, and worgen. And the Forsaken would be undead, nathrezim, blood elves, and maybe some kind of aqiri or valkyr
No, Frostmourn is broken and supposelly most of the soul in is was freed in the final battle with the lich king.
It will be reforged into Blades of the Fallen Prince for Frost Deathknight players who are appointed by the current Lich King to fight the legion.
The elves were ancient and proud nation, so they were naturally smug.
They were also defending their homes, their families, their principal means of magical sustenance. They had every reason to make things as unpleasant for the invader as possible.
They did start worshipping the sun. They also started living in the daytime as opposed to the night elves. iirc its a sort of cultural change. I think they worship the light later
yeah, I think... However, Im quite sure Arcane and Fel magic is basically the same thing at two ends of the spectrum. Both stems from thee twisiting nether and are thus evil/corruptable in nature.... ...which is strange since theres a fucking titan responsibe for arcana magic
I cant remember where, maybe in the rpg supplements, but yes, druidic traditions arent completely gone in high elf society. I cant remember if they have actual druids, but you're definetly right about the rangers
Some people think death knights don't have souls either, what's your stance? I'm pretty sure they do, at most maybe they didn't during WotLK but got them back when Frostmourne was shattered. Also there are quests and bosses where the players having a soul is a thing, like that boss in the shadowmoon burial grounds who scares your soul out of your body and you have to run after and catch it.