>>45335061 Fairies are small, but they're also magic as all hell. They're smart enough, their strange behavior comes mainly from their capriciousness and their familiarity mainly with the dreamlike realm of fairyland.
>>45336834 Suprisingly, no. A fairies guts (along with most of their internal organs) exist largely outside our three-dimensional space. Same with the brains, which is why they're considerably more intelligent than you'd expect from a creature of such small size. "Fairies" as we know them are actually merely projections of extradimensional beings (or being) into our dimension.
>>45335061 Common misconception that brain size both directly and is the only factor in determining the intelligence of an animal. It is a very significant factor, no doubt, but equally (if not more) important is the relative size of the brain to the body of the animal in question. A fairy, with human proportions, under the assumption that their brain takes up as much space in their skulls as in ours, should be about as smart as a human, if scoring a little bit lower than average on a generic IQ test; no more than a 5~15 point difference I would guess.
That said, many animals with lesser brain to body ratios have exhibited sentient and even cognizant behavior, despite not being too different from their more feral cousins (eg crows*, African grey parrots, raccoons). *Relatively recent studies have begun to confirm that crows are actually much more intelligent than we originally gave them credit for being, some even suggest they can speak.
What book would this even be in? At what point would anyone say "Yeah, do you know what we need to waste half a page on? Some dumb story about a guy systematically murdering a fairy and then later on getting murdered by fairies, but those fairies don't do it for revenge, they just do it for fun." "Why? What does that do for the game?" "Shut the fuck up. I already wrote the story, now it's going into the book."
>>45336945 >Gives a great look about how the fairies are clearly not just tiny humans with wings >Waste of space Fuck back to your safe-zone, faggot. It's not like books have a dedicated limit to the amount of pages in them that can never be passed.
>>45336945 You missed the point entirely >how does a pixie fly? Well I'll kidnap it and cut it open and analyse it's blood but didn't find anything Then the pixies say: >how do humans have such good imagination and ideas? We cut this one open but didn't find out anything
>>45337049 Tell me all your incredible stories you've written, anon. Show me how superior you are and I might agree. It was mildly entertaining and shows how retarded the D&D world can be when you apply logic to magic.
I can withdraw my former statement, it doesn't really part humans and fairies, but you are some cunt to complain about something taking up "space" when these fuckers pay for every page printed themselves. It's not like the price sky rocketed because of half a page.
>>45336902 >A fairy, with human proportions, under the assumption that their brain takes up as much space in their skulls as in ours, should be about as smart as a human No it shouldn't. Elephant fish (Mormyridae) have about the same relative brain size compared to body weight as humans. They're a lot smarter than most fish but still not that smart. It's more just complex than that.
>>45335061 Nope Fairies are not small the same way a bug is small. They exist slightly out of sync with our perceptions of space. They are the same size, if not bigger than us, but translate into our plane as tiny.
>>45337089 >Tell me all your incredible stories you've written, anon. Show me how superior you are and I might agree.
I'm torn, because yes, I do have incredible stories, but sadly, showing you them wouldn't really do anything to directly prove my point. How good a writer I am doesn't influence how good/bad another writer is.
But, if you want to read some of my stuff, you'll find them in just about every screencap thread posted on /tg/. A lot of people seem to like reposting them.
>It was mildly entertaining and shows how retarded the D&D world can be when you apply logic to magic.
No, it's was just stupid. You're right in that it was retarded, but it was retarded because it's just awkward and nonsensical, as if the guy was willing to redefine pixies just so that his little joke could be made.
And it's not that I'm concerned about the amount of paper. It's a waste of space even when text is free. It's a really bad story which might be tolerated on a fanfiction writer's forum, but to hamfist it into a game manual is just obscene.
>>45337109 >it gives people a good idea of what fairys are like to help with there roleplaying
These are awful fairies then. If you introduce fairies like this into your game, ones which casually murder people for fun, and people don't immediately treat them like monsters that need to be exterminated, then something doesn't quite sit right.
Effectively, this story would put Pixies on the same tier as goblins, though people might actually be less inclined to kill goblins because goblins at least a speck of rational thought.
I'd say the best way to treat this story is just as an awful fairy tail, instead of a showcase of pixie psychology.
>>45335061 >Like, since they're small, they have small brains, right? Whose to say they are small? Whose to say they aren't GIANTS, who will EAT YOU, WHOLE AND AAAA~LIIIIIIIVEEEEE!!!
>>45335141 >Elephants, Dolphins and Blue whales all have bigger brains than us and yet you don't see them trapsing around inventing television, wireless internet and posting on 4chan. >On the Internet, no one knows you'rea a Dolphin...
>>45336895 >Suprisingly, no. A fairies guts (along with most of their internal organs) exist largely outside our three-dimensional space. Same with the brains, which is why they're considerably more intelligent than you'd expect from a creature of such small size. >"Fairies" as we know them are actually merely projections of extradimensional beings (or being) into our dimension. WHOLE AND AAAA~LIIIIIIIVEEEEE!!!
>>45336902 >*Relatively recent studies have begun to confirm that crows are actually much more intelligent than we originally gave them credit for being, some even suggest they can speak. Anyone have the Crow Wars story?
So, from an analytical point of view, this is clearly intended to be a morality tale in the form of a fairy tale. Now, fairy tales are very very rarely anything following a point of logic, and if you think this level of violence is absurdist then you clearly don't read a whole ton of them. Many of them make far less logical sense than this, and explain far less, like "AND THEN HE SKINNED HIM ALIVE, CUT OUT HIS LIVER, AND THREW HIS EVISCERATED CORPSE INTO THE VILLAGE WELL! The moral is DON'T LET YOUR DAUGHTER TALK TO ONE EYED DWARVES!" Absurdity is a common addition to fairy tales of antiquity.
The second important thing to understand is that this story is using the human and pixies as stand ins for some greater issue. In this case, it's a bard talking about how a human uses logic and science to try and analyze the shit out of everything when some answers -are- just that simple. The scholar cuts open a pixie (the reason why a person would do something so cruel and ridiculous is irrelevant. This is a fairy tale. Cruel and absurd are par for the course) trying to find the answer to why the pixie is capable of flight. He analyzes it, then finds a whole lot of ridiculous nonsense which he pulls out of his ass. It's worth noting the pixie's answer is simple and short and beautiful, and also talks about the power of personal song. Something that would be very important to the bard telling the story.
Eventually this guy, who overanalyzes everything and ended up understanding very little comes across some pixies, and tells them all the bullshit findings he came up with. He lets them know the source of his imagination is his brain. In a reversal, the fairies, who take it for granted that they're made of song, figure this guy must be made of ideas, bust his head open, and instead of coming up with anything fanciful or beautiful, find the dude's brain and are like "wow, this is lame." -cont.
>>45337193 >and people don't immediately treat them like monsters that need to be exterminated Who said this wasn't the case? Reminder that in the original book, when Tinker Bell first met Wendy she was so jealous of her, she tried to get her killed.
>>45337497 - cont. The point here is, that the story isn't about "lol fairiessorandumb" the story is about some bard being bitter at scholars (LIKE ME IRONICALLY) breaking things down art to its component parts to figure out how it works, instead of just accepting it for how it is. In this case, the art gets direct literal revenge, and is disappointed by the results of taking apart a man to find his inspiration.
>>45337521 Did you write the story? Is that why you're so upset that someone doesn't like your first attempt at writing a "dark" fairy tail?
It's a poorly written bit of nonsense that I'd be hardpressed to grade above a C- if one of my college students submitted it to me. I would have thrown a B to the child if it was submitted in highschool, but it's definitely not something a professional writer should take pride in.
>>45336902 No that is fucking stupid, there is a constraint based on size, eventually the complexity of the network is hindered by physical limits. You simply can't fit as much shit in a bird sized brain as you can in a human brain, you can't fucking downsize molecules and that is a limit that will spread further up the chain.
>>45337702 Crows are incredibly smart, though, despite having braisn the size of a walnut. They have extremely good memories, can communicate complex concepts to each other, and are actually better at counting than an untaught human (sure, you can't tech a crow to solve complex equations, but a crow is actually better at math than some person has has never been taught math).
>>45337720 He doesn't, If there's one thing ND is is constantly talk about his fetishes, and those don't include vore.
>>45335061 >Are fairies just naturally dumb or something? Like, since they're small, they have small brains, right? No, size isn't really a factor in fae intelligence, they do tend to be simple minded though, if only because they represent very limited concepts filtered through dream and poetic thought
>>45337188 >>45336895 And now I'm getting flash backs to Frakass's vore faeries for some reason, though that would explain alot how they can do it though
>>45337193 >I'm torn, because yes, I do have incredible stories, but sadly, showing you them wouldn't really do anything to directly prove my point. How good a writer I am doesn't influence how good/bad another writer is. >I have stories but I ain't gonna post them, you have to trust me I think you're just a troll
>These are awful fairies then. If you introduce fairies like this into your game, ones which casually murder people for fun, and people don't immediately treat them like monsters that need to be exterminated, then something doesn't quite sit right. So how fairies were historically before disney got it's hands on them?
>>45337357 Surprisingly it's a somewhat common theory among the craziest of the UFO crazies that fairies, aliens, demons, and other things of that nature are "Ultraterrestrials" fragments of a single being (or handful of beings) projected into our dimension
>>45337720 He doesn't, he is fine with unbirth/assimilation that leads to TFing into a fat lesbian but not vore
>>45337753 It probably is, crows are pretty easy to provoke in mass if you keep in mind how smart they are and how good their memory is
>>45337927 >It probably is, crows are pretty easy to provoke in mass if you keep in mind how smart they are and how good their memory is As much as I agree with that, I don't really think crows started to fight each other massively in a crow war where most of them died and then all the survivors went together to McDonalds to eat fries and celebrate victory with their human Emperor.
>>45337927 >And now I'm getting flash backs to Frakass's vore faeries for some reason, though that would explain alot how they can do it though Frakass's vore-fairies don't actually work like that, although that's an easy mistake to make. Namely because he had vore-elves that work like that (there's like three different kinds of vore-elves in his setting; giant-sized ones, normal-sized ones with super-elastic stomachs and tiny fairy-sized ones who actually mostly exist in another dimension and can thus swallow far larger things than their seemingly tiny physical size would suggest). The fairies are just very stretchy and can swallow a person whole, although rarely do so. They also come in giant version that are a few times taller than a person (that can also eat you because at this point it should be clear that everything want to kill you).
>>45337886 That isn't the argument. He is saying size doesn't matter but it definetely does: you can't have a brain with the same capacities of a human brain fit but marble-sized. "Oh but a few capabilities do exist in those tiny heads" is not an argument against that, that is like saying because my calculator can do the same as the windows calc that it's possible to fit a 10 thousand dollar rig into the size of a pocket calculator, one thing does not prove the other at all
>>45338294 True enough, but I was arguing against the point that "size is not a a constraint at all" not that magical fairies can't be magically smart. But then again, my fairies are eldritch abominations that only look somewhat acceptable in this reality if not examined from up close, and them being "playful" usually ends with them opening holes in reality or kidnapping humans to turn into toys.
>>45338257 The thing is that you're assuming that the human brain structure is the most efficient set up possible, when it comes to size. It's quite possible for at smaller brain to be more efficient, and thereby equally intelligent.
>>45338289 You tried to set up a strawman. You're also pretending that subjectivity excuses poor writing.
How else is someone to interpret your post outside of that you allow your questionable tastes to compel you to awkwardly and inanely defend the indefensible? You try to drag the discussion down to subjective screeching simply because you don't have any other legs to stand on, but are emotionally compelled to try anyway.
The story isn't good. You'd have some difficulty finding a story that bad in any decent magazine, and it's that kind of shoddy writing that would turn people away from a game, rather than intrigue them to play. It's a story which stumbles over itself, which is amusing because it's only a few paragraphs long and still tries to do ten different things while failing miserably at each. It's an empty fairy tail devoid of any charm or wit aside from what you'd find superficially. it's an awful introduction to the pixie race that fluffs them as the sort of creatures that players would hate and terrible DMs would love, it tries mimicking the teaching of several morals and instead winds up struggling to reveal such secrets as "don't be a psychopath" and "casual murder happens" while each part of the story undermines the next.
It's a silly story that you can certainly like, but that just reflects that you like stories that aren't good.
>>45338499 Would making a brain that is very small but as smart as a human's challenge the fact that the cell size and molecule size are hard constraints and that you eventually hit a brick wall? And even if you could run this really efficient brain, it is unlikely one the size of a marble could hit the same intelligence as a human brain. Fuck I'd go as far as to say it is impossible, specially considering this is a goddamn 3d space and you are increasing - volume - so the difference between sizes is even more pronounced. Regardless of the capability to match up with certain functions it is unlikely to match up to the whole product.
I made the calculator comparison, but there is a definitive difference: we can enhance the efficiency of the circuit but we can also fit more and more transistors into smaller spaces which is what effectively drives forward the growth of processing power. The same can't be said for molecules and neurons unless you are going for some really alien (in the different and strange sense) biology and chemistry.
>>45337193 >I do have incredible stories No, no you don't. The moment, the very instant, you as an artist of any kind, think that your productions are good, you've failed. Either post and be judged or gtfo.
>>45337662 Was the assignment: write a dark fairy tale? Then yeah, they might deserve a C+. But its not, it just some flavor text that is meant to show how this particular brand of fairies act. As a story it has very good flow: Slow when they meet, fast when he's researching, slow when he meets more fairies, and finally fast when they kill him. If the assignment was flavor text then this gets a solid A+.
>>45335061 they have under-average wisdom scores to reüpresent that fae-like beeings are completely different from humans, dwarfs or even elves. Their whole worldview is strange from us, very emotional and/or living in the moment
>>45338983 >If the assignment was flavor text then this gets a solid A+.
For a middle schooler? Even then I'd be hesitant. because I wouldn't want to encourage them to think that writing about a guy cutting apart a living pixie when asked to write about fairies is anything other than senseless. I'm not easily impressed by that sort of thing, especially when it's done purely for the sake of some unfunny joke.
And, for a high schooler? Or above? It's a chilling thought to think that there are people out there who don't laugh themselves silly at how this little story was supposed to be used to provide flavor for the race, and I have a very hard time imagining the child successfully arguing his case above a C at best. Awkward and without a drop of deep thinking behind it, but he deserves some points for taking some risks and keeping it mercifully brief.
Decisively mediocre, an average student in the worst sense of that phrase. I would wonder how he managed to get into my class to begin with.
>>45339248 >>45338634 Wasn't going to say anything but then I refreshed the page and there was more of this shit.
I genuinely hope you're not any sort of teacher. You have a disgusting amount of condescension and smugness that is punchable at best.
8/10 you got me a decent bit upset at the thought that people like the person you're pretending to be might exist, but then you blew it with the second post; you got greedy and came on a little too strong.
I hope for your sake this is bait and you're giggling at people falling for it instead of not only holding but actually expressing this opinion in full view of other people.
>>45339248 >Literally: "I find this contrary to my tastes so it is subjectively bad" Teachers that do this are complete shit at their jobs. As a composition instructor, you are worried about how the story flows, thematic inconsistencies, good dialogue, etc. If you hate love stories and somebody comes to you with a 2 page romance draft, that's too fucking bad. >Obviously you're going to disagree with be because you're a fucking idiot so why don't you post what you consider to be a well written short story.
>>45339430 >Can they live in my pants? >YFW no tiny fairy girl or boy if that's your thing that's come to live in your house >YFW on cold days it's taken to finding the warmest spot to curl up in >YFW the warmest spot ends up being on your crotch and now you keep finding a tiny fairy burrowing it's way into your pants >YFW you feel it's tiny, soft body squirming on your dick or gently massaging your balls >YFW it feels delightfully tortuous, after the first "accident" it enchanted you to be unable to cum
>>45339338 There's really little reason not to be smug or condescending.
You don't agree? That's fine. I've long since come to terms with that there will always be people like you in any public forum, and they may even make up the majority of most.
Put in a way you can understand, you've either got very low standards, or have some undue attachment to that particularly story. Either one makes you deserving of ridicule, and your cries of "Stop being such a meany" mean nothing to me if you're still trying to defend that story as anything other than a throwaway accident of text that might amuse s child, or mental child, and hardly anyone else.
I mean, damn son, we're not talking about a literary masterpiece here. It's hardly the quality you'd expect to read coming from any editor that would have a second choice.
>>45339440 >As a composition instructor, you are worried about how the story flows, thematic inconsistencies, good dialogue, etc.
Did you miss my explanation of the thematic inconsistencies that makes the short story hobble like a cripple? Why insist on pretending that any criticism against this wreck of a story is purely subjective? Is it because your own subjective tastes override your discernment, and make you blind and deaf to what people are telling you? Propping up strawmen because you can't even look at an opinion contrary to your own?
It's a bad story by every metric. At least the author had their spell check on.
>>45339647 If that's really what you're reduced to, that's fine. You're so upset, that your last recourse is to try and mark me as a troll, an ad hominem, because you literally have nothing left.
Such dishonesty is embarrassing, which is exactly why I will shame you by calling you out on it. Just admitting you understand the story is bad but that you like it anyway would have been a far more sensible tactic, which is likely why it escaped you. Sensible ideas seem rather alien to you.
>>45337152 >>45337702 Don't assert a claim on top of a general statement. Just as the size of the brain in it's self isn't he only deciding factor of intellect, the relative size of the brain is also just one of many factors. The body in question, environmental influences, the shame and distribution of the brain, as well as the kind of brain-mater/structure in question are all very important and intricate factors. Fish, generally, have brains mostly dedicated to motor-functions/large cerebellums, and almost no logic-centers to speak of. There are also tons of examples of tiny animals being able to speak, solve logic-puzzles, do math, etc. In most cases the individual animals are exceptional specimens of course, but it stands to reason that fairies wouldn't fundamentally have to be dumber than a human.
You're right in saying that the smaller they get the less likely it is that they'd be intelligent, but even intelligence comes in a multitude of distributions, values, and definitions; like how some animal's couldn't be expected to speak or solve a logic puzzle, but build exceedingly intricate domiciles out of raw materials.
If we were to say a fairies were one foot / thirty or so centimeters tall, with human-like bodies and brains, it wouldn't be a real stretch to make them as intelligent as a human; with a few allowances of body/brain/setting even fully so.
>>45339641 Thematic inconsistencies? The only comments you've made pertaining to the actual content of the story is about you distaste for the vivisection of pixies, which I can understand since people are vastly different. However, other than that, everything else you've posted has been mindless drivel with no substance.
Either admit your bias and leave or actually bring some intelligent arguments to the table. >For a "teacher" who should be at work right now, you are doing some pretty heavy posting
>>45339851 >Fish, generally, have brains mostly dedicated to motor-functions/large cerebellums, and almost no logic-centers to speak of. You are right, but you are making the unfounded assumption that the cerebellum itself can not take on new functions. Mormyridae have a highly modified cerebellum where the vavula cerebelli has evolved into something very morphologically similar to the neocortex, and are theorized to have alternative logic-centers. All I claimed was that what determines intelligence in animals is much more complex than simply relative brain size. Something you agree with.
>If we were to say a fairies were one foot / thirty or so centimeters tall, with human-like bodies and brains, it wouldn't be a real stretch to make them as intelligent as a human; with a few allowances of body/brain/setting even fully so. It would be quite a stretch. It's not entirely impossible, mind you but it is somewhat unlikely. It's still fantasy however and there is nothing to suggest that their brain structure would even be similar. Also they're fucking magic.
>>45339981 If you're not even going to pretend to read my posts, I don't understand why you insist on pretending you can argue on them.
Is your hope to just tire me out by forcing me to repeat myself? Or, is it the more obvious case of you being less interested in actually making a point, and are more interested in just getting some sort of last word in?
Luckily, copy-paste exists.
> It's a story which stumbles over itself, which is amusing because it's only a few paragraphs long and still tries to do ten different things while failing miserably at each. It's an empty fairy tail devoid of any charm or wit aside from what you'd find superficially. it's an awful introduction to the pixie race that fluffs them as the sort of creatures that players would hate and terrible DMs would love, it tries mimicking the teaching of several morals and instead winds up struggling to reveal such secrets as "don't be a psychopath" and "casual murder happens" while each part of the story undermines the next.
Do you really need me to go any further describing exactly why the story is terrible? You seem intent on going through every sort of fallacy you can commit, running from strawman to ad hominem to simply trying to run your opponent out of stamina, and at that point we're not having a discussion, you are just laboriously making a fool of yourself trying to defend a story a fifteen-year old could have written and only a fifteen-year old would be proud of.
Let me settle this for you, so you don't run off with your ego in tact just so you can argue like this in the future. You've got bad taste and bad sense, and it's better that you hear it now before you parade your opinions anywhere except an anonymous message board. If you had a "lump of soft gray stuff" in your skull, you'd have long since recognized such a bastardization of a fairy tail and such a aimless mess of lore isn't worth defending, and certainly not under the criteria that is should be evaluated as a published work.
>>45340240 >empty fairy tale It's not a fairy tale >devoid of wit and charm Was there supposed to be wit and charm in the story?
I'm glad the thread now knows what a glorious faggot you are. Only spergs and autismo maximos actually use the terms for logics fallacies on a Manchurian dating forum. Some of us have been posting on our lunch breaks and have to get back to actually fucking working.
>>45340406 You seem confused. A bastardization of a fairy tail isn't quite the same thing as a fairy tail.
Also, I'm glad you're not senseless enough to argue that it's not devoid of wit and charm. Smart move, as is your decision to back down, even if you had to throw an ad hom and a "Well, I wasn't really being serious" in right before it.
I understand that you have to do what you can to protect your fragile ego, but at least don't be so transparent about it.
>>45340240 >people will respect my opinion if I use big words and pretend to copy paste things that were literally never posted in the thread >there's no way my foolhardy opponents will follow the conveniently located ladder of nested post links throughout this conversation!
Luckily copy paste exists. Here's another one of your posts in greentext.
>hello I am critic Anon and on a scale of one to ten I would grade my own cock as a mediocre c-, which is coincidentally my final grade in grad school English which is why I now teach high school and do my best to make students miserable by acting with the same harsh critique leveled at me by the PHDs that called me an arrogant self important jizzrag all those years ago. Maybe the Internet cares.
Pretty sure it was four or five of your posts back. Everyone else saw it right?
>>45339893 It's not just the size of the brain, but how you use it (or rather, how it's built). Whales are quite intelligent animals, but whereas humans have significant amount of our brains to things like abstract thinking and language, whales have much of their brains devoted to deciphering the results of their echolocation signals and turning it into a three-dimensional map of their surroundings.
>>45337583 >Go away fake-ND. You're not fooling anybody. ...Wha?
>>45337720 >Hell I'm pretty sure nd does not even like vore. I'm not, BUT GOD DAMN IT KARBO!!!
>>45337886 >He doesn't, If there's one thing ND is is constantly talk about his fetishes, and those don't include vore. At least not traditional vore...
>>45337927 >He doesn't, he is fine with unbirth/assimilation that leads to TFing into a fat lesbian but not vore Exactly!
>And now I'm getting flash backs to Frakass's vore faeries for some reason, though that would explain alot how they can do it though >>45338166 >Frakass's vore-fairies don't actually work like that Karbo's do though.
>>45342325 >I thought Karbo just had everything be stupidly huge compared to humans. Most of his Monster Girls were, but the Fairies were special; They had Size Magic, they could change their size and shrink others down for eating.
>>45335901 This is a bit of a tangent, but people were literally just always pissed off that they thought they were getting D&D, but got a Final Fantasy Tactics style boardgame with a skill check system glued to it instead. For many years, most of the arguments really were just half-assed rationalizations of that anger, and most of the more popular ones have since fallen out of favour. Mostly from when the people using them had finally finished taking their sweet time noticing that their edition warring attempts weren't being taken seriously by anyone who really knew anything about the game.
The last arguments standing are the ones with a bit of meat on them: "I think per-encounter abilities are unrealistic," "the art reminds me of World of Warcraft," and "Power Cards make everything look the same, and using one standardized format to represent lots of different things is bad (for some reason, which is generally ill-explained.)"
I was always just sorta lukewarm on 4e. To me the issue was always the fact that it relies on establishing a set of pre-determined "good and useful actions" for everyone, rather than letting you freely describe what you do and giving you the ability to turn that into rules somehow. But then again, that argument could be used against most versions of D&D - it's just more obvious in 4e.
To me it just fit more into the "board game" sort of slot, and I'd rather play a D&D 4e dungeon than running my 47th game of Arkham Horror.
But 4e actually did occasionally have some really cool fluff bits. And a lot less verbose filler nonsense in-between. I also really liked that they just split elves into "Nature Elves" and "Magic Elves." I fucking hate the whole sun/moon/star/angel/wank/wild/chocolate/brown/black elves thing you otherwise get with D&D.
>>45350021 >I fucking hate the whole sun/moon/star/angel/wank/wild elves thing Fair. >I fucking hate the whole chocolate/brown/black elves thing U wot? If humans can have a half dozen races most easily described by skin tone, what's wrong with elves being the same way?
>>45350272 The second I read "I fucking hate the whole sun/moon/star/angel/wank/wild/chocolate/brown/black elves thing you otherwise get with D&D." everything else left my mind as my brain filled with fuck. There's literally nothing wrong with light, brown, and black elves.
>>45350542 >all D&D settings are the same >all games that have more than one kind of elf are D&D
>>45350570 I'm trying to think about worldbuilding here, albeit slowly as I'm sleepy as fuck. It always bothered me that humans have a bunch of races, or sub-races if we're going to make things less confusing, but elves and dwarves either do not or their sub-races are so different that they have entirely different mechanics, and are therefore considered a race proper in the D&D/LotR sense.
>>45350712 >I'm trying to think about worldbuilding here, albeit slowly as I'm sleepy as fuck. It always bothered me that humans have a bunch of races, or sub-races if we're going to make things less confusing, but elves and dwarves either do not or their sub-races are so different that they have entirely different mechanics, and are therefore considered a race proper in the D&D/LotR sense. Elves have almost always had many cosmetic differences between them. It wasn't until much later that this was given any mechanical merit. Dwarves too have been described as varying from swarthy to fair.
>>45350712 The best way to represent those mostly aesthetic differences is by mentioning in some short text blurb that races exists in various visually-different variations depending mostly on the geographic origins of their ancestry.
Which is something you'll find in a lot of settings.
Creating subraces in the D&D tradition, with different ability score bonuses and class features, is just clutter.
Plus, in the specific example of elves, the million-and-one-subraces thing isn't really what most people see as "core" to the fictional idea of "elves" in a more abstract way. It's an addition to, rather than a distillation of, the elf as a concept. Which is fine, but I don't think I'm the only one who thinks those minor differences that you still have to track just make the game more complex without adding much interesting depth, and strays from the enjoyably iconic and into something that feels like it belongs in a 13 year old girl's fanfiction.
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