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What are the NPCs like in your games? Do you have any recurring allies or antagonists that show up? Do you add previous PCs as NPCs, or bring up characters that are from one chronicle and put them in another? Who fills out your game world?
Don't you disrespect me little man! Don't deregate or deriiiide...your in my world now, not your world, and I got friends on the other side...
>"He's got friends on the other siiide..."
Hey there cinnamon bun! What say after my shift you and I go into the back room and share a couple'a crullers?
The midst reoccurring NPCs in my crossover game I play in are an ordo vampire that lives in the basement of my condo and dates the party sin-eater, and the owner of my bar Lou, who may or may not be the devil.
He is the devil
I now want a Thyrsus with Mind who has essentially turned himself into a hivemind of cats, I believe a Spirit with Influence (Cats) was involved as was the Morphean of the Thyrsus in question.
My upcoming Demon game that I'm doing preludes for so far has had about 13 NPCs that the players have met, split about evenly between the 2 I've done a prelude for
Four of those NPCs are either Angels or Demons, and 3 of them are mortal agents of the God-Machine.
I was actually thinking about making one of the mortal agents become a recurring threat, when I did the second guy's prelude, last night, but he ended up getting run over by the PC's car.
IDK how car crash damage works in 2e, but if it's anything like 1e, he's fucked.
>What are the NPCs like in your games?
Characters with independent action and who help PCs in combat or with info. They also add to some dramatic questions as relationship, morality and etc. I try to make them as interest as I can for players and for me. I love to create and RP them. But I try to not cross the line between NPC and GMPC because I know the sensation play with a GMPC.
>Do you have any recurring allies or antagonists that show up?
Yes. Many NPCs are for that. Allies I tend to use more depending on where the players liked or not. In one table, the most liked was a girl named "Ethel".
In one I'm STing now, a guy named "Garwin" is the most wanted. Both Ethel and Garwin are close-tied, but since the current players had a like on Garwin...
>Do you add previous PCs as NPCs, or bring up characters that are from one chronicle and put them in another?
All the time. And since me and a friend are playing on same world (She controls Boston and part of London, and I control New Orleans, New York, Oxford, the other half of London and some isles on Italy. Tawain is also a place I use, but it's only for some characters reference), our NPCs and PCs cross each other time to time.
Now, their players are in New Orleans, while mine are in Boston. In terms of chronology in game, we are playing in same week of 2014 (end of October). It is almost like we changed cities for the week.
>Who fills out your game world?
Didn't understand this question.
Thyrsus, future body-stealer, who was suppose to be the "giant gentile" steriotype, but ended up being an scholar who's teaching all the cabal about magic.
That sucks. A lot. I just wanted to be a big, muscular, furry and super cute dude with low-social habilities...
Acanthus Mage who's in way over his head, and just keeps swimming into deeper water.
Surprisingly, there's very few songs with the actual phrase "World of Darkness". There's that and the actual song, "World of Darkness": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7le7vmVJlFw
Anyone use any of the sample settings yet? Which seems most interesting?
I'm really stoked for it, but is anyone else afraid it'll be tough to get people onboard Dark Eras games?
In my experience, players tend to loathe history because it means they have to read a fucking book for once in their sorry lives.
You bet your ass I'm bitter.
I really like the Nameless' rules for Montreal, and if I'm ever the ST I'd like to use them. Though I'm not sure about what punishments I could use for breaking them, besides death.
I'll admit that I'll probably never run one of the historical settings. I was in the kickstarter for that because I wanted to read the book.
I also like having history in a setting. It doesn't matter whether or not it actually comes up, it gives me as ST so much more choice in what I can anchor characters in.
Oh, also, I'm a huge Norse history fan, so the Viking Werewolf era (what's it's name, by the way?)
>CtL spoiler mentions "Embracing the Wyrd"
>"It's sort of like a changeling's equivalent to "Going Loud," though (potentially) not so powerful. Limned in dreamlike fae magic, the character ... well, you'll find out what it does. Needless to say, it's not something most changelings do lightly, and its effects are not subtle."
The fact that when the PCs break the rules they'll meet The Nameless is one of the big problems with the setting.
No, you can apparently drop the mask in addition to embracing the wyrd.
>If you really want to go crazy, you drop your mask and Embrace the Wyrd.
>Of course, there might not be too much left of you afterwards if that somehow goes horribly wrong. But for one glorious, terrible scene, you're starlight and omens, a tide to sweep through the forest and a voice that shakes the threads of hope and despair.
>Who knows? In that moment, you might even forget the hole in your heart.
>"In the place of a Dark Lord you would have a Queen! Not dark but beautiful and terrible as the Morn! Treacherous as the Seas! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair!"
>Just to temper expectations a bit here, Embracing the Wyrd is not quite as potent as Going Loud, nor is it quite as dangerous. It fills a similar role as an overdrive button that gives you a big boost at a steep personal cost, but not to quite the same degree as Going Loud does it. The quoted Galadriel scene is a good example in many ways.
$ynidcate financier who prefers field work. Got mixed up with some Reality Deviants, but they were hunting child molesters so he helped them out instead of working against them. Trying to get support with the NWO to go after child abusers.
>Embracing the Wyrd is not quite as potent as Going Loud
But Going Loud really just gives you all your Embeds (most of which will be useless) and a few Form Powers. It's cool thematically, but it's not like you can instantly crush your foes.
Who /Werewolf/ here?
desu I don't really care for werewolves but I think spirits are cool as fuck
One of my players (the oldest age-wise) wants me to run a game of world of darkness. He keeps insisting that my style of gming would be perfect for it. But, paging through the books it seems like the premise for these are just power fantasy type deals where the players essentially masturbate about how powerful their monsters/mages are and wreck shit with them (how subtle the shit wrecking must be varies by which book you're using). And when it is not about that, it seems to be about full blown politics and intrigue. Which sounds like a slog for any players not familiar with the setting (all of them but one).
It just seems like a set of very niche RPGs that only certain people with a specific mindset would find enjoyable. Maybe I'm getting the wrong impression from all the fractured reading of random pages?
every single book is about dealing with terrible consequences, either of your monstrous condition or of getting yourself in way over your head. I'm not sure where you're getting the "power fantasy" idea from, since CofD/nWoD is pretty adamantly against the idea of "wrecking shit" without any fallout.
That's a bit harsh, but that's pretty much it. It's intrigue, politics, powers, and the consequences of all of that mixed together. In practice it's only as much of a power fantasy as you make it, but the concept of the "Vampions" (Vampire and Champions, if you're familiar with that game) didn't come from nothing.
You should still give it a deeper read, the setting's more compelling than you'd think, but if it's not your kind of game, don't feel pressured to run it.
>paging through the books it seems like the premise for these are just power fantasy type deals where the players essentially masturbate about how powerful their monsters/mages are and wreck shit with them
What are you even talking about? >>45330488 most of the stuff is how power is bad and your life is going to suck, but you've got cool powers. Yeah, if you flip to the power section it sounds pretty awesome, but there are also downsides to that, and on top of it your opponents have those powers as well. Even mage has like 20 pages of how difficult it actually is to use the powers, and the complications that having those powers brings.
As the others have said, you're not doing a good job of reading it. Yeah, you get cool powers, but using them often comes with great cost, often personal.
You have to drink peoples blood to use your cool powers
You have to dedicate half your life to dealing with weird spirit bullshit to use your cool powers, and there's always a chance of going nuts and killing the ones you love
Your cool powers are hard as fuck to use correctly, and using them to wreck shit will lead straight to insanity.
Your cool powers aren't that cool, considering the constant downside of not being able to befriend anybody for too long without them trying to kill you
Getting your cool powers left you a broken person
You don't really have any cool powers, unless you dedicate yourself to a group of people that let you have them
You have to spend a lot of time helping ghosts to use your cool powers
You can only use your cool powers for a year or so, at most, before you become a pile of dust.
You can't use your cool powers without risking your own death
Your cool powers come with a cost of you being the dumbest splat in the game
>Here's all these abilites that cover two thirds of the book and make you broken as fuck
>btw, you can't use them
Might as well not set the game in any of the expansions and run core humans.
I'm really not getting any of this, man. My games tend to be all about consequences and responsibilities, but they are usually in systems where it is easy to reign in the players without going into bullshit (*And settings that most of the group are familiar with). This just seems like the kind of D20ish power curve, where you suddenly need regular dudes to have golem guards in their cities or the players can just level it in a few combat rounds if they choose to. With the added problem that my players will not understand what is expected from them as part of their parent organization/slaver/whatever.
I assume it's like a joke or something? I mean if it makes you happy, I can't really complain, I just don't really see the point of it.
I was thinking of suggesting something from Legacies: The Ancient, but going over it again it doesn't seem like there's as much as I thought there was. Maybe a re-skinned Thrice-Great?
If you can look at a game about personal horror and how awful it is to lose your humanity, and your only takeaway is "look, cool powers!" then the World/Chronicles of Darkness is not a good fit for you.
These are horror games.
>Come with a cost of being the dumbest splat in the game
Truer words have not been spoken, anon.
No one said you can't use them. No one said they make you broken as fuck. We said they come part and parcel with having a fucked up life. You're a FUCKING VAMPIRE. That has downsides, you know. The point of the game is that it's a dark scary world, even for the monsters. Every game's themes are about that. It's a horror game, although not everyone plays it that way.
I have no idea where you're getting that it's all about power fantasy. Not even Mage is really a power fantasy. Read the books. They're good. And yes, you can just do a mortal game. That's even more being in the dark and scared, and without some of the benefits of knowing what's going on and having powers.
Triggers are what cause Breaking Points. See for instance Werewolf.
So somebody on the Onyx Path forums pointed out somethin interesting about the way Clarity works in 2E.
>Its interesting to note that depending upon your choices of breaking points, basic morality has no effect on the Changeling, the Changeling could go on a killing rampage and not hit a single breaking point, which makes Changeling weirdly unpredictable compared to other splats.
Which really reinforces the capricious nature of faeries.
Oh, right. The reason I spoiler
F-listis a) because it's habit from when /erpg/ was on /tg/ before a mod threw a fit about blue boards but for some reason allowed lewd quests and (until recently) /wst/, and b) because I know mentioning it rustles people's jimmies and I think it's funny to make them work at seeing something that pisses them off.
I also spoiler
Every splat has checks and balances, some more noticeable then others. I recommend 2nd edition as it is new and I like its checks and balances.
>This just seems like the kind of D20ish power curve, where you suddenly need regular dudes to have golem guards in their cities
Every action has equal and opposite reaction. Just like most other game systems. You don't need unstoppable bad asses to keep your players in check; common sense does that well enough. What would happen in real life if this shit went down? Would an informant meet with 5 people in an empty parking lot at night? Would the gang boss have guys with guns with him, or would they all be unarmed? Use your common sense.
> the players can just level it in a few combat rounds if they choose to
What power does this? Entering Twilight? Unless your 1v1ing a drunk accountant trying to deck you in the nose people will hit you. Cue guy complaining combat is a whiff fest if your halfway good at athletics.
> With the added problem that my players will not understand what is expected from them as part of their parent organization/slaver/whatever.
Has political parties called covenants. They all have special magic and get really mad when you switch. City is ruled usually by an old asshole who has lots of people who owe him shit. Don't tell people vampires exist and do favors for people and we all good.
Has no real government, they got special hunting clubs called lodges. Each pack has its own power structure, but is usually headed by an Alpha(read: asshole) Don't tell people werewolves exist and hunt assholes and we all good.
There's not really any reason your players need to know what's expected of them to start off, unless you throw them in the deep end and leave them on their own. You're all new to the game, so fucking play like it; introduce them to the world in the first few sessions, however necessary.
Hell, even if they do bother to actually read the books in order to make their characters, like one logically would, what's expected of them by their specific groups is entirely up to you as the ST. The Invictus in LA and the Invictus in New York are pretty different groups, beyond a basic shared outlook.
Like last year I'd have agreed with you, but then Reddit staged a blackout in protest of the CEO for trying to get rid of the shittier more hateful subreddits (also for firing Victoria, i.e. a thing she didn't do) and the whole campaign was filled with both sexism and racism.
I've sort of lost faith in Reddit as "4chan for slightly decent people" when the site lost it's shit that r/fatpeoplehate got banned.
It takes some getting used to. But then again 4chan is basically unusable without extensions (which after several years are finally native)
I'd just like a website that's casual and links informative articles, funny pictures, and has interesting discussions... that ISN'T technically the largest White Supremacist hate group on the internet.
Too fucking bad. Again, you have to pick your venom: poster drama, bigotry, moderator boundary transgression, incestuous user base, stagnant content, or a mix of two or more. That's just part and parcel with people coming from all over the Internet to discuss things. You just have to hope that the things you get out of it makes the venom worth it.
Not mutually exclusive. /tg/ is monstergirl central. Give us some Velour!
>"Yeah, we didn't like how all Changelings were analogous to rape victims. They don't all have to have PTSD, you know?"
>"I KNOW, LET'S USE EVEN MORE EXPLICIT LANGUAGE TO MAKE IT ABUNDANTLY OBVIOUS THEY'RE ALL ANALOGOUS TO PTSD VICTIMS! EXCELLENT!"
Never change, OPP.
Weren't they always called Triggers? You undergo a Trigger (the event), which sets off a Breaking Point (the acual Integrity roll). I think it's mentioned in Werewolf too but I could be wrong.
I mean, it does make sense to call them something different - "Breaking Points" doesn't work so well when it's something you run into relatively often, and which aren't always negative.
That is to say all Changelings are still victims and survivors just from a wider range of traumas than just abuse. No one from OPP ever said that they wanted to lessen the analogy to victims, just expand it.
Hey, dudes and dudettes, a question regarding D:tD Pacts mechanics.
The Pacts section claims that when an agreement is signed, the things the demon promised the mortal just happen. His unknown great-uncle dies and leaves him a fortune, new friends appear in his life, his incurable fish aroma syndrome goes away, and so on. The demon gets his part of the bargain, a hunk of the person's life, or all of it in the case of a soul pact.
The game mechanics claim, that the more said pact is skewed towards the demon - the more willpower he needs to pay for it. If it's balanced or skewed towards the mortal - there is no extra price.
The book also claims that the pacts are more often than not skewed towards the demon. But why? The demon does not lose anything making the pact equal, or benefitting the mortal. He even gains from it. Pays less, and more stuff the mortal gets makes the mortal a lot more likely to sign pact.
What am I missing?
a) That's not at all what they said.
b) Werewolves also have triggers.
c) Jesus Christ grow up.
Triggers has been used at least since Geist, when they were called Discord Triggers instead of Breaking Points or Sins.
Nothing. It's just a bit of poor game design, really.
Taking Jerry's soul in return for Resources 5, Contacts 5, doesn't cost the Demon any extra Willpower. But it does, still, cost a dot instead of a point.
Geniuw, dude. Genius...
Also, how's your Mage BRBR Campaign? Everyone died from paradox or police arrested them first?
I was thinking about you these days, man.
I-I-I... I m-m-missed you, a-anon-kun...
I assume you mean DavidH (David Hill), not DaveB (Dave Brookshaw)? David is the developer for Changeling and Hurt Locker, and Dave is the developer for Mage. They both write for many CofD game lines, and David is also an author for WOD.
One should be careful not to confuse the Daves.
No, he remembers correctly.
I don't think they try to let the generic terms out into the world as a matter of course, but sometimes they do. I remember Rose once saying that internally they use the term "character types" and not templates.
• Multiple Strike (Combat): Whether it’s a roundhouse punch or a series of quick jabs, the character can hit everyone in his immediate range with one attack.
The player makes one attack roll, subtracting the highest
Defense represented by the intended targets. The character must be able to physically reach all of the targets without taking more than one step. Damage is applied equally to all of the targets (the damage is bashing, unless the character has some way to inflict lethal damage with a punch or kick).
Plot Hook: You draw back, and all of them took a step back at once, like it is a cue. In fact, they’ve been moving pretty much in unison from the get-go. They must all train together.
>Damage is applied equally to all of the targets (the damage is bashing, unless the character has some way to inflict lethal damage with a punch or kick).
Does this mean that if you're hitting 3 guys for 3 Bashing, they each take 3 Bashing, or the 3 Bashing gets divided evenly across 3 targets for 1 Bashing each?
Until they can blind you on the freeway, they're not Dragons
>One should be careful not to confuse the Daves
Reminds me of the international conspiracy of guys named Dave, from Narbonic.
>Dark Eras 2
Dark Eras 2 has not even been announced.
There are only Dark Eras and the Dark Eras Companion, the latter from expansion stretch goals during the Dark Eras Kickstarter.
Dark Eras should be the next book released from OPP, with the Companion following soon thereafter.
The DE art is done, and both DE and Mage 2e are in layout. Rich indicated that DE has priority and should be released first.
The status of all projects are updated every Monday in the Monday Meeting Notes.
Mage 2e not cancelled... yet. FIFY
OPP has more than enough to screw it up or delay it indefinitely.
Until I'm actually reading the final PDF, I consider Mage 2e nothing more than mean joke by DaveB and OPP.
Mage 2e isn't cancelled, but I heard it's been delayed because OPP wants to re-tool the game so when a character Awakens, they become a talking dog.
I also may be confusing Mage with other projects.
In the recent OPP forum discussion concerning the Clarity spoilers for Changeling 2e, it was revealed that Changelings can "overclock" or supercharge similar to Going Loud like Demons, or even Death Rage and Frenzy for werewolves and vampires, respectively.
I'm curious if mages will also have a similar power (or weakness) in Mage 2e.
So, someone (DaveB?) mentioned that there was going to be a short story somewhere about a Beast, a Mage, and a Bastet.
Does that mean that we might get a non-shitty version of the Changing Breeds?
Because damn it, I wanna play a cat-shapeshifter.
Per DaveB, "One of the stories in the upcoming Beast Anthology is a strange roadtrip through the Temenos with a Makara, a Matigos, and a Bastet (yes, as in Changing Breeds)."
However, unless the Bastet has received some super-secret second edition revisions or Dave is particularly "creative" in its presentation, I doubt even his powerful reptilian magic can fix this edition's changing breeds.
for my werewolf the forsaken game i've created an NPC pack as neighbors for my players. Game's in Cincinnati, Ohio for context.
The pack(tentatively named Die Jaeger des Stahlwald) is led by an ancient wolf who's possibly pushing 100 years old, and his life's work is a locus of German community centered in a historic church. The pack's totem spirit is named Das Volk, and it's a spirit of Cincinnati's German community/heritage nurtured by the old wolf's locus. Its ban is that it can't harm anyone of German heritage and its bane is anything which has been used to kill a person of German heritage. It appears as a tall, radiant & nude humanoid figure which speaks in 100 voices, has dozens of hands & arms and whose face seems to change into a different person's every couple of minutes.
How ludicrous is this idea?
As a native speaker:
>Die Jaeger des Stahlwald
Sounds incredibly cheesy. Also grammatically incorrect. Jäger des Stahlwalds, with an s at the end to denote possessive. Alternatively, Stahlwaldjäger as a compound is also possible.
In Europe, this can have unfortunate connotations depending on context (especially when used in a factionalistic manner). Don't know how communities in the US feel on the matter, though, since as I understand it those predate WW2.
>How ludicrous is this idea?
There's nothing wrong with the idea per se, but the presentation is veering into kinda cheesy territory.
>anyone of German heritage
How the fuck do you define this, exactly? If somewhere around seven generations back, some German peasants moved to Russia and them to the USA to create my dad's side of the family, am I safe from this spirit despite also being three generations Americanized and also a Polish Jew on my mother's side? Do spirits believe in the one-drop rule?
So what does this pack do, exactly, other than be very proud of their German heritage and violently attack anyone who messes with the, and oh my god they're a gang of skinhead werewolves
>Thinking that stopping whiny pissbabies from ruining other people's enjoyment of things is censorship
Censorship is a group in power uses said power to silence speech it disagrees with.
Kicking hateful manchildren who can't enjoy any expression they don't like off of a website is the equivalent of kicking the guy who won't stop trying to kill off other PCs out of your group. He's an asshole and he's ruining everyone else's fun. That's not fucking censorship, that's normal human interaction.
the name's a place holder, don't worry
it's an intergenerational pack run by an ancient and venerable storm lord whose set on keeping his little kingdom pristine & orderly. He's got three werewolf sons and one's gone off on his own but the other two still kind of hang around his territory and raise their own families. The patriarch's nearing the end of his life and he's hoping he can die in one last really great hunt before he kicks it. I don't imagine storm lords want to die peacefully.
This is all off-the-cuff stuff as desu all i had was the broad strokes for them.
sometimes you just don't see those unfortunate implications, huh? i'll go back to the drawing board on it.
Very fair point.
Thanks for the feedback, everyone. It is critique & review that makes us better as creators(also i'm crying irl).
>And do you think the KKK can just go around doing whatever?
Doing no. Saying yes. They can't kill people or anything, but they were allowed to adopt a highway not too long ago.
>Why should hate speech be protected?
Because if it isn't, then all you have to do to stop people from saying anything you don't like is call it hate speech.
>it's an intergenerational pack run by an ancient and venerable storm lord whose set on keeping his little kingdom pristine & orderly. He's got three werewolf sons and one's gone off on his own but the other two still kind of hang around his territory and raise their own families. The patriarch's nearing the end of his life and he's hoping he can die in one last really great hunt before he kicks it. I don't imagine storm lords want to die peacefully.
>This is all off-the-cuff stuff as desu all i had was the broad strokes for them.
Yeah. But why is being German so important to them?
oh and the idea for the like...german-ness stuff in general was that the head of the pack is a century-old immigrant whose watched all of his fellows die off, and seen his children & grandchildren become Americans. It's a sense of loneliness that he's sort of exorcised via shaping the Hisil in his territory into a shrine to his homeland(he doesn't go back because holy shit is he old and also there's an active conflict with the Pure in the city).
I guess their schtick is generational conflict.
>pack leader is 100 years old
>meaning he was born at the start of WW1
>obsessed with a romantic notion of a German identity and history
>protects those of German blood from outsiders
This isn't a "haha, Germans are Nazis" set-up; this is literally the ideological roots that led to the Nazis rise to power. Your pack leader is literally full-stop an OG Nazi.
the concept in my head wasn't...malicious like that but holy shit lmao i done fucked up.
It was my first stab at incorporating a pretty important & visible part of the city's history with a spirit that represented something abstract or ideological, something "weird" but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ road to hell is paved with good intentions
/wodg/ sucks because we just bitch about how nothing ever comes out and the rare few times any OC enters the thread it's shit like godawful homebrew or Nazi werewolves
I hate this place and the entire fandom
OPP please come out with Dark Eras so we have someong to talk about
So how does combat play out in nwod? Because of everyone having like 2/3 defense and possibly having armor on top of that it kinda seems like if you don't really focus on combat you aren't gonna hit shit with your Str 2, Weapon 1 dice pool.
WoD is a dangerous place tho, there's no guarantee that your social butterfly or shrimpy nerd won't be thrust into a combat situation. Maybe the party fails a streetwise roll and comes across some hoodlums, maybe they are somewhere dangerous like the Hedge or the Underworld and the denizens don't take kindly to the newcomers, maybe a vampire or a werewolf fails a frenzy/death rage roll?
Your anti-freedom hate speech is about to spur me to some violent action, boy
Hey, everyone. Shut up about Nazis and hate speech. Dave just posted stuff on time travel.
The Sherif. cops. gang members, anyone the party has arranged a meeting with may be wearing armor as a precaution. Obviously I'm not saying every NCP clunks around in SWAT gear and knight armor but it's a part of the game alongside combat and it may be used if it makes sense.
Our characters usually wear armor in our V20 game. Since the beginning it has been a mixture of riot armor and bonecrafts made by our Tzimisce associate. Soon I'm hoping to upgrade to some warded shit, though.
I'm playing a Mage right now. I just stick to the example spells and ask my DM if I can do X, I haven't even tried learning what Improvised Spells are. Death, Life, Matter here.
CofD makes it so defense is 5+ in Melee combat if you're decent in it. At that point you're just spending will power, doing all out attacks and hoping to achieve tilts like breaking arms to even things out
The Practices were still a mess after ToM. In fact, the Practices were largely ignored/
That's precisely why Dave made it a priority in 2e for spells to actually follow the Practices rather than vague notions of game balance.
I'm doing a GOT-esque low fantasy game and a lot of people have armor.
I have a homebrew in place where blunt weapons do less damage than sharps, but cause bashing damage thru armor instead of just being canceled out by it.
No offense to any of the creators who may be chilling in this thread but I've been playing white wolf since the 90s and I've never read a demographics guess that made a lick of sense or was useful for anything but starting arguments. Its way more useful to make the number of NPCs you need and leave room for later expansion instead of adhering to some pie in the sky ratio that rarely holds up with how supernatural societies are designed.
For mages, especially, I'd start work on cabals first. They're a super important part of mage society (and EVERY supernatural society really) that a lot of people forget because they make one NPC at a time or by faction when that's generally not how mages organize themselves. Once you have cabals you have power groups with interests which you can use to flesh out the shape of your little supernatural conspiracy town.
That article's really interesting, as is the issue of freedom of speech. Ultimately, white supremacy - and other hatespeech - is just a different opinion. So, is censoring hatespeech wrong? What makes your opinion the correct one? Because it syncs up with laws? That's just a slippery slope to Big Brother terrritory.
Of course, the other side is that only so many different opinions can actually peacefully co-exist. Despite what super tolerance might try to tell us. Opinions that deviate too far from the centre must be outlawed to maintain social harmony, but then ... where is the line?
Please explain to me why a private internet site should refrain from moderating simply because "muh freedom of speech". It's not Big Brother territory to say "okay, you need to stop calling everyone a faggot and insulting transgender people and African Americans and women or you're not allowed on this website anymore". No more than it would be to kick someone out of your house--or even the mall, which is private property--for calling you a niggerfaggot.
Have any of you ever run a chat, forum, or other sort of website? I'm assuming if you have you've needed to either ban a user or tell them off. There's also the matter that even among controversial opinions, some are actively harmful. For instance, the conference Cruz, Rubio, and Christie went to where the guy was on stage literally saying that gays should be murdered as the Old Testament describes is not conducive to living in a civilized society, and saying "woah now, back the fuck up" isn't somehow a slippery slope that will lead to Thought Crime. Especially since ultimately this specific thing isn't "censorship" because it doesn't come in the form of a governmental body, it's a private website and whether removing negative elements would create a better experience for most users.
As an aside, it occurs to me that out of all the supernaturals, Mages are the ones most likely to deal with THIS kind of thing. I mean, Carthians will latch onto radical ideas, but it's Mages who will take radical freedom of speech to a whole new level, since they literally mold their soul around ideas like this. I wonder what keeps every American Mage from going off on a murder spree for their totalitarian/libertarian/liberal cause.
Oh God, what about Mage SovCits? Can you imagine a cabal of them? Would they just be considered Banishers?
I didn't say anything about a private site. I just said that the KKK should be allowed to say (offline, with their mouths) whatever the fuck they're going to say, as long as they aren't doing anything other than talking.
But whether the KKK can say whatever they want isn't the question. It's *A* question, sure, and frankly I'm of the opinion that they shouldn't be given platforms for their beliefs (I can't see it as anything other than terrorism when Neonazis want permission to parade down the streets of the Jewish parts of town), but the question from the article is whether Reddit should allow sites like r/Chimpire and r/niggers and r/whitesupremacy.
>But whether the KKK can say whatever they want isn't the question.
It's what the post I replied to was asking about. I couldn't give half a fuck what Reddit bans.
>the question from the article
I didn't reply to an article. I replied to >>45344131
That post is the entire extent to which I care about this conversation.
Oh. Well honestly that's still kind of a silly argument that relies on "slippery slope!"
If you assume everything is a slippery slope, we might as well not have government because it might lead to oppression. Actually, might nothing.
Here's the thing. Most pro-free-speech arguments boil down to "regulating speech is the first step on the road to totalitarianism". And that is, in fact, a slippery-slope argument. It's a textbook logical fallacy.
It is also, by the by, exactly how it happened in the largest totalitarian regimes in history (Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union). Just because an argument is fallacious doesn't make its conclusion incorrect.
But it's pretty clear to see the difference between "maybe Jews aren't the problem" and "we should literally be murdering homosexuals". That's not at all a fair comparison, so it's also an unfair conclusion. Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union made it illegal to criticize the government or worship differently. Almost every legitimate argument for regulation of free speech (and the arguments in favour of it would never put it that way) amounts to "it should be illegal to encourage discrimination of minorities". If it was illegal to discriminate against minorities or encourage their discrimination, we WOULDN'T get Nazi Germany, because it would have been illegal to wave around Protocols of the Elders of Zion and go "this is really what JEEEEWS are like!"
Preventing beliefs like this to spread https://youtu.be/GBDbGyv6SIQ will not result in brownshirts and secret police.
>Banning all speech that would "encourage discrimination of minorities".
What's in a minority? Is it just raw population numbers? Nah, that can't be true, otherwise men would be a protected class (49.2% men vs 50.8% women in the US). Is it income, then? The colleges where all of these arguments are coming from are mostly upper-middle-class, so probably not. Sociopolitical power? That's an awfully subjective thing. Statistically, entertainment media employees are disproportionately Jewish. Does that mean it's OK to make fun of the Jews on TV?
Who's the one that decides what groups can and cannot be legally criticized? Well, it would probably end up being the government. And now we run into trouble. Because if the government gets to decide who is and isn't legally immune to criticism, then you bet the government itself will put itself on that list.
Will you look at that. The little law put in place to protect minorities is now protecting the people in power. Funny how that works.
The problem is that once you outlaw an idea, you remove people's ability to decide for themselves whether the idea is right or wrong. That could bite you in the ass on the off chance it's right after all, but more importantly, it's a violation of people's autonomy, which is categorically wrong. You're eliminating their ability to decide what's true (or at least trying).
Something that's bugging me.
According to CofD p. 127:
Ephemeral beings don’t possess skills, but don’t suffer unskilled penalties as long as the action they’re attempting is appropriate to their former self, nature, or mission. They roll the appropriate Attribute + Rank for actions relating directly to their concept, or Attribute + Attribute for actions like surprise and perception.
>Attribute + Rank for things they should be best at. Not Power + Finesse + Rank.
Does anyone else think this is fucked? They roll Power + Finesse to attack, p.129, but will probably have a smaller dicepool to do the thing they literally live for?
Combat works differently than most other things you roll for, as number of successes actually means something and you can get much larger penalties (Defense isn't capped at) / fewer bonuses. You need a much larger dicepool in combat to be as good at it as at most other tasks, where one success is enough and modifiers will often end up neutral.
You sound like the kind of person who wants to get rid of the 14th Amendment. You realize there are already laws put in place to prevent discrimination of minorities, right?
That's a slippery slope, and I'm pretty sure "we should stone gays" isn't going to be right after all.
Why does that apparently bother you so much? It's directly WoD related, and the WoD books themselves do he same thing with their Inspiration section. Every single book has one, so clearly the developers think watching unrelated movies and taking eat ideas from them is a good idea.
Why does it bother you that someone who just watched a movie got an idea from it? This is like the fourth or fifth time someone's said the same thing in response to political discussion, as if something actually WoD related was somehow worse than political discussion.
I never noticed they roll differently than 1e.
That's not an ad hominem fallacy anymore than telling someone flat on their back they can't take a punch.
Everything described in that post already exists as part of the Equal Protections Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. It essentially means that the government must protect the rights of a minority because in any democratic system the majority could vote against the minority's best interests. That's exactly what happened in Germany: Those in power convinced people that Jews and Undesirables were the problem, and because there was no governmental stricture put in place to say "hey, wait, that disproportionately harms a particular group that doesn't have the ability to speak up for themselves".
Laws like Equal Protection pick up where ideals like Freedom of Speech leave off, because one voice is never going to match one thousand.
As an aside it's kind of crazy that we didn't get a Dark Era set in WWII. I wonder if that was them trying to avoid being needlessly edgy? Charnel Houses of Europe was one of their most praised books, though, so it's a bit interesting that they'd want to avoid it. Meanwhile they've got a setting centered around Vietnam, and that was a war much more recent in history. And contentious. Then again, Werewolf mostly focuses on the home front as opposed to being in the jungles fighting Charlie.
depends a bit if you mean 1E or 2E. with 1E if your weapon is more than a toothpick, you're getting some pretty good bonuses(between one and five) and can expect to go through that armor. With 2E you're less likely to hit due to increased defense but all weapons have a guaranteed damage rating if you get even one success.
More Trinity stuff, since there's not really enough material for a Trinity thread yet: http://theonyxpath.com/allegiance-les-fantomes-trinity-continuum/
"Gang of world's greatest thieves" would probably fit in pulpier versions of the WoD/CofD, too.
>As an aside it's kind of crazy that we didn't get a Dark Era set in WWII. I wonder if that was them trying to avoid being needlessly edgy?
Or, you know, World War II is the most boring and overdone part of history in genre fiction and there are plenty of other fine time periods to set these games in. I doubt whatever 4chan's concept of "edgy" is now played a part in it.
I'd rather have Promethean in a 1988 K-Mart in Rhode Island than a World War II setting.
>1988 K-Mart in Rhode Island
It is best never to speak of the October 1998 'incident' in Narragansett. It was by sheer luck we only lost the K-Mart to the Void, and we must never risk waking the Beast...
There honestly aren't that many disadvantages of high Primum. Most of them don't even matter because of the disadvantages of Going Loud.
They seem to be talking 1e, since they say "2/3 defense and possibly armour".
In 1e, Armour is basically just Defense that doesn't drop after each attack and can be used against guns.
In 2e, Armour subtracts from the final damage, even downgrading the damage that bullets do.
In neither edition of nWoD, you're not going to find many people wearing a ton of armour unless it's magical in nature. Just like people don't go around in real life wearing flak jackets and bomb disposal suits.
In 1e, your Str ●● and Weaponry ● is going to be helped by a weapon with usually +3 damage, though it might be -1 because of low strength. Hell, sharpening it is often enough for another +1, though, and then you can spend Willpower for +3 or go All Out (sacrificing your Defense) for +2. That's a total of 11 dice against their 3 defense, netting you about 3L damage.
In 2e, your Str ●● and Weaponry ● has no real bonuses, and their defense is likely to be higher, at 3 or 4 on the low side. You have to put your all into it (Willpower, All Out, which sacrifices YOUR four Defense) to hit them. but when you do, you'll add the weapon's 2 or 3L to your successes automatically.
In 1e, especially with supernatural abilities and bonuses, it was really easy to get ridiculous dice pools and one shot people even without playing a maxed out character. My weak as "no more than 3 in a stat" Promethean managed to throw out enough dice to make crippling Called Shots.
I feel like at this point WWII isn't as overplayed anymore, unless you watch the History Channel. Although on further reflection, they did tend to go for less known Dark Eras (along with Victorian times). I feel like Greek stuff is also overplayed, but they went for an aspect of Greek stuff that's not as explored.
The Hellenistic period is lot longer than seven years near the middle of the 20th century, so I'm not surprised that they're going for the less known aspects as well as mixing things up culturally.
I did (and still do!) feel that Promethean would be perfect for 1946 - 1960 Western Europe. The ruins of France and Germany coming back to life after the war, as a metaphor for the created.
Actually, it'd work just as well for Deviant.
Making a note here.
>You have to put your all into it (Willpower, All Out, which sacrifices YOUR four Defense) to hit them. but when you do, you'll add the weapon's 2 or 3L to your successes automatically.
Given that this requires you to roll 4-5 successes on your roll to put them down, when they retaliate with their full dicepool (thanks to your 0 Defense) you're basically fucked.
To all the Hunter groups out there: How do you defend yourself from, catch and/or kill incredibly fast and agile monsters?
We've stumbled upon an animalistic shifter that likes to work its way into a community, then kill and eat the weakest of the herd before moving on. Our current investigation is a rehabilitation village and there's already been three deaths.
It can sprint like a motherfucker, cling to walls and ceilings, leap houses, remain near-invisible in shadow and return to its human form in just a few seconds. Normal weapons can wound it, but three rosewood stakes to the heart and lungs are needed to kill it. Every time we've tried snares, bear traps ect. they've just dodged around or actually been snagged, only to just run away with the trap to free themselves later. Crossbows and hand weapons it can just dodge. We can't use claymores, landmines or firearms because we're in a small residential area, and we can't find the wounded community member it's disguised as because it heals in less than an hour and we can only hunt it covertly at night. How the fuck do we kill this thing?
Lets sort the Scooby Doo monsters into different Splats, for no other reason than it is interesting.
10'000 Volt Ghost (Actually a Storm Spirit that took up residence in a Cities power grid.)
But if they're just as shitty as you are, they've also got a dice pool of about 3, and that won't do all that much to you. If they go All Out and use Willpower, they'll do more damage to you, but you'll probably still be up (they'll also have needed to roll "four or five successes to put you down") and you can then stab THEM to death.
Don't get into fights you can't win.
You lure it because it avoids combat. You've apparently tried snares, bear traps, etc... but how is it getting away with these? How is it getting out of a net or nailed down bear trap? You need to cripple it and keep it in place just long enough to unload on it so that you can injure it and crucify it.
Also, rehabilitation village?
It's an old Slavic legend, but it's the best we've got. That's not to say we won't cut it into chunks and burn it to ashes before fusing the ashes into a chunk, salting it, staking it, then putting it into a box and throw it into the ocean.
We've been able to anticipate its attempts to feed a couple of times and trapped the pathways, but they're mostly luck.
It rips staked traps out of the ground, slices through snares and just leaps out of deer traps.
2E design was such that as default you are supposed to burn fuckton of Willpower points during combat. It makes sense from narrative point of view too since it's life-death situation and you are desperately struggling to obtain your goals like "not die" or "bash the fucker skull in".
So really, when you are Str 2 Weapon 1 you are also burning Willpower every round until you can escape or somehow immobilize the other guy.
You are probably also going All-Out. So it's more like 2 + 1 + 3 + 2 - 3 = 6 dice. With 6 dice while wielding crowbar you have pretty good chance of getting that 1 success + 2 from crowbar, so you are automatically inflicting 3 lethal damage to a guy and 2 if he wears reinforced clothing or kevlar.
Now let's consider that your enemy is in full riot gear and substracts 3 from his armour. Well, even scrawny librarian can try to fight that guy, he just needs now to target limbs.
Sure, now if you are trying to inflict Leg Wrack you operate on only 4 dice, but if you succeed a guy gets minimum 3 lethals that bypass his Defense and suffers Leg Wrack which halves his speed and gives -2 to all his actions including Defense.
What I'm trying to say - it works pretty good even if you don't have merits. If you aren't physical character you still have a room to manevour and can try getting advantage, surprise rounds etc.
A player in a Hunter game dated a Werewolf. In the end he forced her to frenzy during a session of congress, then killed her without hesitation to expose their existence, and the danger they pose, to the government.
Date them just once.
So it's fast, can't be lured or trapped, is impossible to find and heals as fast too fast to track.
Sounds like you're fucked. You'd be better to just move to a new city and pretend you don't remember the screams of your former friends and neighbours
After losing 2 group members to a vengeful Werewolf pack, we voted a leader who would call it quits for all of us if we got in too deep. He's really considering pulling us out and just letting nature take its course, while I think we should keep trying to slow and kill it and the group scientist wants to wait until it's feeding on a resident, rig the house and blow it to hell.
>People keep recommending All-Out Attacks when in my experience those are basically suicide
Do you guys have one-on-one fights in your games all the time, or something? I can't remember the last time any of my games have had a one-on-one fight that wasn't some sort of heavily ritualized duel. In group fights, if you go all-out, all the guys on the other side gang up on you now that you've got no Defense and beat you to death.
Try using a pit trap filled with spikes.
It's weird that I defend WoD for this. I was thinking about it and this is kind of the situation that made me hate GURPS (well, partly; in GURPS the attacker and defender's rolls are also unrelated to each other).
I really wish that WoD devoted some wordcount to explaining HOW to play the game. I wish there was, like... a guide to playing. Like, all of this is stuff that us old hats have figured out that new players are completely unaware of. They're given all these options, but they're not given an explanation of how the developers intended them to be put together.
No, generally in any fight you should have back up, that's why it's workable to go All Out. But if you DON'T have back up, it's better to hit as hard as possible right out of the gate. Hopefully your opponent will decide they don't want to take a chance at damaging you just as hard, because if they do, it leaves them vulnerable to a killing blow from you.
You go All Out because your friends are around to make sure you going All Out means your target doesn't get a chance to act again.
That said, I cannot suggest this enough:
>All Out and special maneuvers removes Skill-to-Defense, not all of your Defense
>You go All Out because your friends are around to make sure you going All Out means your target doesn't get a chance to act again.
...And then the dead guy's friends murder your ass, same as before. I'm not sure how this solves the problem.
Group fights are something totally different. If it's 1 players with shit combat skills against multitude of opponents, you aren't facing combat but use chase rules because boy, be sure that PCs won't try to fight 1vs3.
If you are speaking about situations like 2vs2 or 3vs3, it's also ok.
You just need to make sure that your heavy hitter that will go All-Out will be protected from other enemies.
It's one thing that I feel WoD really, really lacks and it pisses me off a bit. It's also a reason why supplement such as "Damnation City" was universally so well recieved - it gave accessible design toolkit that WoD lacks.
Oh and adventure books. SAS was ok, but there's not much of it. A black line could use a supplement where players can see how to make a "zombie plague scenario" work, or the "cabin in the woods" story and other shit. How to use Horrors and how to build scenarios, from simplest ones to more convoluted.
>...And then the dead guy's friends murder your ass, same as before. I'm not sure how this solves the problem.
He doesn't. There's this thing called initative, you just move in initative to the end so after hitting with All-Out turn ends and you still have your Defense.
Generally what you want to do is to position your weaker guys as acting first and blocking the enemies from your heavy hitters. Weaker PCs are engaging enemies while stronger PC hits the hardest weakened ones.
Black Line? Although, yes, I cannot agree with you more. I think one of the reasons why Mirrors is so well liked by people is because it DOES give some of that stuff, it's just that for me it doesn't give enough.
Just a suggestion for a name, I think. Dedicated adventure seed and adventure books would be cool for WoD, but I swear I remember some OPP person saying that they don't sell. It's too bad, I'd love a Masks of Nyarlthotep style book for CofD.
But I'm playing an Ugallu, I'll die down there!
In all fairness the newer editions are -far- better and I'm really enjoying myself. Not had chance to suddenly turn into a rampaging nightmare-dragon in a WoD game before and it's really caught my imagination.
Something about Beast just speaks to me. Deep in my heart I want to be an Anakim Nemesis. Punishing the strong for abusing the weak with overwhelming and terrifying power. Feels comfy.
I don't know why it took me this long to realize that Dexter is totally an anakim nemesis.
Have a picture for a future general.
So Eshmaki then. If I remember right it's:
Eshmaki: Dragon...shadowlurker...dragon thing
Namutaru: Ugly sons of bitches
Ugallu: Bird people
Sup /cofdg/, I'm back with more potentially-ill-advised VtR homebrew!
I took people's advice and went back to the drawing board with my Mystery, narrowing its focus and adjusting its power level (and making it a bit more obviously "we stole half of this shit from Sin-Eaters").
Thoughts/Comments/Critiques? I'm still having trouble judging what can be considered "balanced" for Coils, given that we only have a few official ones to compare to (and two of those aren't even final yet). Also, any suggestions for cooler names for Coils and Scales would be awesome, as names are never my strong suit...