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7th Sea 2nd Edition
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You are currently reading a thread in /tg/ - Traditional Games

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So, the Kickstarter for the 2nd edition just opened and literally within minutes has reached twice its goal amount.

Who else is planning to contribute?
>>
>Giving money to Wick

Ehh… nah.
>>
>Wick's European Stereotype Land With No Sailing, By John Wick

pass
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>>45319043
He's adding the Americas to this edition. And the Caribbean always existed, oddly enough.
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>>45319043
How many dogs can you kill in this game?
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>>45319430
How much are you willing to risk?
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>>45319430
>using the R&K system to create a modern day game of operatic bloodshed, organized crime and firearm ballets

I... don't hate the idea, actually.
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>>45319023
Well, I did.
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>>45319023
It seems like a pretty good deal. You get a lot of books for just 60$ or so. Of course, these are all books you can download for free from practically any pirate site, but if you're going to download your stuff illegally you probably aren't the guy who'll backup a kickstarter in the first place.
>>
I'm not a fan of Wick, as a GM or as a human being. However, I adored L5R & 7th Sea as two of my favorite settings, and have owned all the books from all previous editions. I do believe that you can dislike a person, but still enjoy their work, and it not be hypocritical.

tl;dr: Yes, I will.
>>
>>45319037
>>45320061

What's the problem with Wick?
>>
Holy damn, it beat Pugmire in a couple of hours. So much for rabid Onyx Path fans automatically throwing All The Money at anything.
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>>45320218
He's like the Platonic ideal of That GM.
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>>45320223
It still doesn't come close to how much money each 20th Anniversary World of Darkness book tends to make within a nanosecond of the Kickstarter opening.
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>>45320244
Not only that, he's That GM that writes That GM instruction manuals.
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>>45319023

Excellent!

Just backed it. Thanks for the heads up. I wasn't sure when this thing was going to start.
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>>45320223
kickstarters are all about nostalgia. anyway there aren't really onyx path fans so much as there are world of darkness and exalted fans.
>>
>>45320440
How'd you explain the Pugmire debacle than?
>>
>Wick
What has this guy done?
>>
>>45319430
As the player? Not much, unless you go for narrative kills. Killing stuff with traditional combat is hard in this game.

Now, as the GM? As many as you like! If you are an asshole, you can even kill a dog twice! And the best part: the PCs can do very-very little to stop your dog-killing rampage.
>>
New setting map. Neat.
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>>45319023

Backed it. Can't wait for this to come out - really like the setting
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Backed it at the Hero level to get the Sorte deck to use for 1e Destiny Spreads. As soon as I saw the New World book pic related happened
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>>45321511
Can't you just use normal playing cards for this?
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Are there still long swords in the setting?
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>>45321057
That is considerably less retarded-looking then it used to be. Neato.
I might not use the rules but if the updated setting is nice and detail-heavy I'll probably use the book.
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>>45321593
I think that Avalon had a broadsword+buckler fighting style in 1e.
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>>45321642
A longsword is not a broadsword.
THIS is a broadsword (specifically a Scots claymore); a one-handed Renaissance-era cut-and-thrust sword with a wide, heavy blade.
>>
What are the odds of us finally seeing a proper Ussuran fencing style? Because they literally didn't have any in the 1st ed. Their only iconic fighting styles involved axes, bows and wrestling.

I mean, I know the Russians were kind of backwards back then and weren't all for fencing, but at least give us SOMETHING.
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>>45321702
THIS is a longsword, a very long blade that is somewhat thinner then a broadsword's used in either one or two hands, but often two. They're much longer then most people think they are.
They're contemporary weapons, but proper longswords are obviously more "military" in nature.
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>>45321723
Actually Russians did in fact fence.
They weren't like, super-skilled master with elaborate schools that we know if, but they had fencing swords and such, though often they used long sabers rather then rapiers.
It's just more of "STRONK RUSSIAN BAER" stereotype shit; a LOT of 7th Sea was full of bordering on racist stereotypes honestly.
>>
>>45321702
>Referring to basket hilted broadswords as claymores
>Year of our lord 1327+689

Better yourself.
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>>45320348
Isn't he the guy that only ever saw one samurai movie and only half remembers it? The L5R guy? That doesn't paint a great picture for another pseudo-historical setting.
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>>45321822
"Claymore" is literally Scottish for "sword". Like the Japanese "katana". Once upon a time, "claymores" were big. Then they were basket hilted. Then then they were antitank mines.
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>>45321831
He is. Thing is, while Wick himself isn't the most admirable guy, the settings he's involved with are usually quite good. Sure, you often want to ignore the metaplot, but it's still worth it.
>>
>>45321864
You're right, 'Claymore' became more associated with the two handed great swords rather than the basket hilted swords that the name was dropped. It's still in common (albeit incorrect) usage.
>>
>>45319287
>>45321057

I'll be interested in the game again when I see some clear proof of the New World or at last some reason to have an adventure on the high seas.

Coastal piracy is no fun at all.
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>>45321822
Claymores are both basket-hilted swords and the large two-handed ones. Just because one is true doesn't mean the other is wrong, especially if one is "untrue" because it's not in common usage.
Otherwise "broadswords" refer to any fantasy one-handed sword, and "claymores" are a type of directional landmind.
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>>45321961
I think he mentiond he was adding the Americas as well as possibly North Africa, but I've seen no map of either.
Still, the new map is slightly less dumb.
>>
>>45319023
So what's the draw of 7th Sea? Never played the 1st edition, but that is some crazy support for the Kickstarter. What're the strengths of the system? What's the R&K mechanic?
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>>45322084
>So what's the draw of 7th Sea?
Swashbuckling action shit.
Pirates, musketeers, sorcery, heroism, treasure maps, conspiracies, love and swordfights in "not exactly Europe".
>What're the strengths of the system?
Swordfights and combat can be pretty wild if the stats and skills are right.
Sadly, 1e is deeply flawed due to...well, Wick being himself and the then-common tendency to make games ruthless and not very forgiving, even in genres that supposedly ARE very forgiving.
>What's the R&K mechanic?
You roll a certain number of d10s, and keep a certain number after you roll, with 10's on a dice "exploding" (meaning you re-roll it and count the number as 10+Whatever you rolled).
This new edition does not use R&K though; he bought the rights to the license, not the R&K system.
>>
Question... How different would this game be if instead of counting dice you just took nWoD's dice system? Any roll of 8 or better is a raise?
>>
>>45322222
Very different I imagine.
>>
>>45319023
I did, about 60 bucks. I had some really good times with playing the original and the new system seems pretty solid in my opinion. Will I be following Wick's advice on GMing, or experience? Hell no.
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>>45322568
I can't even believe I'm saying this, but I did too.
Kickstarter has always seemed to sketchy to me....
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>>45319023
I did.
I feel so weak.
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>>45322607
I've contributes to a few and I've only had one bad experience, the one bad experience being a video game that's still in development. Tabletop games always give what they promise.
>>
>>45322607
It's all a matter of who is doing it. Shadowrun Returns was great, for example.

So the question is: can trust John Wick with your money, knowing that if he screws up royally you'll never see that money back?
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Who is Joch Wick, why is he famous and why should i know him dear anons?
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>>45322194
Interesting, thanks. I've always preferred cinematic systems and the exploding dice mechanic sounds neat, even if it's no longer being used.
>>
>>45322712
>Who is Joch Wick
Game designer from the 90's.
Developed 7th Sea and L5R.
>why is he famous
Well, for a given definition of "famous" I suppose....
>why should i know him dear anons?
Not sure you should.
The guy himself is kind of a prick.
>>
>>45322724
The original system wasn't too cinematic honestly; Wick was one of those GenX game designers that loved crunch, so for a game supposedly driven by narrative it was very crunchy.

This new system on the other hand is quite narrative-driven.
>>
>>45322809
And this small fame netted him 200.000+ in a few days?

And why do you say he is a prick?
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>>45321319
Ditto. Weirdly, it was my gf who introduced me to it and whom I played it with the most
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>>45323027
No, the huge popularity of 7th Sea and the entire line's abrupt cancellation got him 200k in a few days. I say he's aprick because he IS one. Go Google his name and read his essays.
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>>45323027
You're a plant, I bet.
>>
So, how is 7th Sea as a system? Every review I've actively searched for has be rather positive, but usually I can count on you guys to give a proper unbiased review.
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>>45323138
Thanks anon.

>>45323144
Yes anon, you have unveiled my true form.
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>>45323144
I doubt it. Wick's fame is VERY limited, mostly to people who played his games when they first came out. Plenty of new L5R players don't know him.
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>>45323191
People have fond memories (including moi) but honestly it's about so-so; it WANTS to be cool and narrative-driven, but it's character creation and old rules are so mired in crunch it can't without extensive houseruling.
It's a fun game but very much a product of it's time, I would say.
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>>45323191
The new system is completely different though, and I gotta admit it looks promising.
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>>45323027
Try a few hours. It hasn't been half a day.
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>>45323325
It's not completely different, but it definitely is much closer to being the adventure story focused system than its first edition.

It looks like it will depend on there being a good DM though to handle the game's complication system while keeping it exciting for the players.

forever DM here, and I'm excited
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>>45323443
Yeah, I was willing to just say "fuck this", but this system actually looks kinda fun.
The real test will be seeing how hard it is to be a duelist of any sort and if without being a trained Sworsmend you can't do anything cool.
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>>45323443
The consequence system feels like it might be kind of clunky, especially since you have to declare them to the players before every Risk. that by itself may be an issue, since it might take the element of surprise out of some twists, but the fact that you need to come up with several interesting consequences, on the spot and out loud, for every Risky action the players take and lay them before them like that sounds like it might slow some games down (or quickly degrade into the GM just coming up with a few boring defaults they always use, like it's a *World move and the player just rolled 7-9).

I wonder if it may not be better to say that, rather than "spending" Raises to cancel out consequences, the system could be like each task has a set difficulty equal to 1+number of consequences, and the player needs to score that many Raises to succeed completely. For every Raise less than that, they pick a consequences. It's effectively the same, but it means there's less of a need to think about them at first.
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>>45323138
I'm honestly not certain Googling "John Wick" will give helpful results.
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>>45323624
Google "John Wick tabletop gaming essay" then.
It's not rocket science you know.
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>>45323664
I know. I just wanted to post that image.

How much like John Wick (the designer) is John Wick (the character), anyway?
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>>45323686
None whatsoever.
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>>45323701
I'm not even sure if Wick the guy even has a dog.
>>
has anyone here actually read through the quick start pdf yet?
How does it look?
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>>45323725
He's very much a cat person.
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>>45323734
It is a typical JW game: it wants to be one thing, but the game mechanics encourage the exact opposite approach.

The rules are gritty (as a player, you will suck a lot) and slow paced (there is a lot of thinking and calculating like >>45323599), and does not really support theatrical swashbuckling if you ask me.

The rules would be much more fitting for, say, Warhammer 40k.
>>
Wick gonna have to start coming up with new sourcebook ideas if this goes on like that. By the time the Kickstarter ends he'd have to be promising people PDFs of "The Complete Guide For Sheepherding in Castille".
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>>45323973
Kickstarters usually tend to go strong in the first two or three days and then slow down. There's still ground for supplements to cover including Secret Societies and other regions of Theah.
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>>45323973
>>45324097
He's already beginning to take more cautious steps. Latest update was a novel, at 240,000$.

Still, seems like that might be reached before the night is over.
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>>45323908
That's unfortunate. I was really hoping to run a swashbuckling adventure for my players, but it looks like I still don't have a system.
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>>45324614
Why don't you read the system yourself instead of relying off what anonymous other people tell you?
Or just use a generic system for fuck's sake.
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>>45324738
Yeah I guess, but I don't want to drop 60 bucks on something unless I'm certain it's what I'm looking for, and I don't want to use a generic system for something a specific setting could do better.
>>
>Don’t try coming up with clever ways to
turn “Yes” into “No.”
It's weird that this PDF gives exact opposite instructions that Wick himself says you SHOULD do.
>>
Someone post the pdf.
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>>45324810
Well the system isn't even finished yet, so withhold your judgement until you read it yourself; just read the free quickstart basics right in the pdf at the top of the page.
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>>45324850
It's at the top of the page ya dingus.
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Can't wait to get back home to donate for this. Do you think the Kickstarter would still be open about 20 hours from now?
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>>45324825
Yeah, Wick's comments in the QS are surprisingly reasonable and appropriate for the game. Wonder if he's begun to mellow over the years?
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>>45324948
It just started. You've got a month.
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>>45324956
Maybe he's contractually obliged to act like this for the sake of the Kickstarter?

He takes out his frustration for having to act reasonable on his own group.

Imagine being a player of John Wick when he's in a particularly cruel mood.
>>
Where's that copypasta of all the shit Wick plans on gutting from the game
I remember he hates the Roll & Keep system for one
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>>45321864
Hey now. It's Scots for BIG sword.
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>>45324956
It might be possible that he wrote the rules but not the body text itself; there's a few people other then just him working on it if you look at the Kickstarter.
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>>45325183
One of the funny things about what he said back then was that he replaced the system because he just really wanted "all of the dice on the table to count" or something like that...

Except that the current system actually invalidates a lot more dice in each roll than R&K did.
>>
I don't get why you guys are saying that the system is too hard on the crunch. I'm reading the pdf now and the rules are so loose that I can hardly understand them.
The only way I could wrap my head around the combat is if there was an example of play.
>>
>>45325458
People are referring to 1e's crunch when they are talking about 7th Sea being heavy.
>>
As it has become traditional to bring up on these threads:

Jews in Thea. Yes? No? Why? Why not? How? How much?
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>>45319023
So on page 5 the rules take the time to say, "GM, don't be an asshole."

Then on page 7, there's the Danger Pool, rules for being an asshole.
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>>45325445
I think what he meant was "getting to keep all the dice" instead of "getting to keep only a few of the dice", which so far this system does indeed do.
It's just he said it using the exact wrong words because...I dunno, because people do that all the time and never bother to learn to articulate themselves.
>>
>>45325979
I don't expect I'm going to include that shit anyway. I've played literally not a single system I haven't had to modify SOMETHING off of after all, so I expected this to be no different.
This looks a lot easier to modify then old 7th Sea was with it's skills and traits and knacks and what have you, so that makes it a better system for me because I was never going to use the in-box rules anyway.
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>>45326082
The Danger Pool looks rather central to the mechanic. There's some kind of point economy going behind the scenes here I'm not sure would be wise to disrupt without first analyzing more deeply.
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>>45326011
In fact, it is possible that the player won't keep all the dice, because the GM can take away the 1s for Danger Points.
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>>45326272
Yes, but all the dice in a roll are used, whether by the player or the GM.
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>>45326245
Does it? I see it, but I see barely any mechanics at all right now and it seems to me removing that and then just deciding Raises needed to complete a task ahead of time is simple, or even making it up on the fly.
Sure it's not what the rules say, but fuck 'em.
I'm here to make sure my players have fun, not uphold some shitty points-balancing mechanic designed to encourage being a dick.

Not that it matters anyway, we won't even have PDF's of this for most of the year.
>>
I don't get the effective difference between a round and a beat. Can a round have more than one beat? If so, how (can you hold back your raise)?

If every round has just one beat, the there's no real distinction.
>>
>>45326272
I feel like that's easy to ignore. I ignored "Drama Dice as experience" too.
I get that most people aren't as comfortable modding game mechanics as much as me and my group are though, so I definitely feel those sympathies.
>>
>>45326245
Here's the thing: you don't need to spend Danger Pool dice to reflect the environment or other situational hazards - those are covered by basic Consequences.

So why would you ever spend a Danger Pool die? Because fuck you, that's why (literally.)
>>
>>45326445
I round is a single roll from every character. A beat is a single raise from every character. Thus every round has multiple beats unless every character only gets a single raise.
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>>45326499
So you can only spend one raise at a time? That means you can never negate consequences. What about contests, where your supposed to defeat your opponent by out raising him?
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>>45326484
That's what I'm seeing too; you don't NEED a special "I want you to fail this roll" dice pool.
Ignoring it entirely does nothing except remove a dice pool designed to stroke Wick's GMing penis.
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>>45326552
*you are (dammit, typing too fast.)
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>>45326552
Read the Dueling section of the adventure: I think it's more like "everyone spends all their Beats at once" or something, I dunno.
Hate not having the full ruleset already....
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>>45326626
It MIGHT be a while before we get those... Like at least half a year.

Disappointing, I know.
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>>45326681
If we're being realistic, we're more likely to have a new President in the States when we are to have pdf's ready.
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>>45326704
If John Wick was the only one on board. I'm being cautiously optimistic in here since he's doing this with AEG. They're usually more reliable with their timetables.

Besides, most backers are also entitled a couple dozen PDFs of books that already exist. What excuse could he possibly have not to give them access to those as soon as the Kickstarter finishes?
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>>45326780
>PDFs of books that already exist
Do they?
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>>45326942
Yeah, all of the 1st edition books. Backers who paid 40$ are supposed to receive all of them. It's a pretty terrific deal, if you're assuming that people who'd use Kickstarter wouldn't illegally download. 40$ for nearly 400$ worth of books PLUS everything for the 2nd edition.
>>
It may be worth noting that as of a few minutes ago, this kickstarter has officially made more money on its first day than any other tabletop game related one. Even ANYTHING from Onyx Path.

And the day's not close to over.
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>>45326995
Oh, you mean the old 1rst Edition books.
I have those already so I don't care at all about those.
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>>45327044
Man, I wonder if AEG realizes how much of a mistake it made by canceling 7th Sea?
I think their excuse was that between Warlords, L5R, and 7th Sea that 7th Sea sold the least, but I tell ya my group has far fonder memories of 7th Sea in general.
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>>45327135
I only have the Player's Guide, Gamemaster's Guide and Compendium. I'm quite excited!
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>>45327188
20 books or whatever it is you'd be getting should be enough reading material for until the 2nd edition corebook comes out.

Weird that Swashbuckling Adventures (the corebook for 7th Sea d20) isn't in the list. Wouldn't you need it to make use of some of the supplements that are there?
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>>45327188
I'm not sure how relevant they'll be anymore; hopefully Wick changes the fluff of the nations so that everything doesn't revolve around fucking metaplot characters again.
Though Nowak, one of the sample characters, is one of the Princes of Sarmatia (previously being royal ANYTHING or noble ANYTHING of importance was unthinkable), so maybe if we're REALLY lucky we won't need to worry about that anymore....
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>>45327250
Actually, no.
The d20 version had stats for R&K in there still, though admittedly they failed to explain that.
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>>45327044
I got to say, I'm a little bit shocked. I get it that 7th Sea was a popular game back in the day, so it's understandable many old fans would be willing to fun a new edition - but in that case, how could it've made more money than V20 or M20? I mean, 7th Sea was popular but it get anywhere remotely close to the popularity of the Old World of Darkness. Alongside D&D that game practically defined tabletop roleplaying back in its day, surely it'd have had more fans throwing money at it?
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>>45319023
Okay, so based on the name I get that the new country, the Sarmatian Commonwealth, is Poland, right? Does that make it the Austro-Hungarian Empire or what?
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>>45327401
>the Sarmatian Commonwealth, is Poland, right? Does that make it the Austro-Hungarian Empire or what?
How does that make sense?
>>
Okay, so the 7th Sea setting runs on stereotypes, right?

What's the Polish stereotype you think's gonna define the Sarmatian Commonwealth?
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>>45327401
No, that came much later.
Based on the description and the vague timeline Theah follows (somewhere in the mid-17th century), it would be the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Lithuanian_Commonwealth

By the standards of nations at the time it had a pretty batshit government; the king was an elected official (elected by the nobles) and didn't have the kind of authority of other monarchs, Lithuania had it's own army separate from Poland (as well as many independent institutions), and was in general extremely decentralized during a period where consolidation of monarchial power was the standard.
They also had CRAZY ethnic variety compared to most European countries at the time since the region was kind of in the middle of everywhere.
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>>45327506
>They also had CRAZY ethnic variety compared to most European countries at the time since the region was kind of in the middle of everywhere.

But no Jews, though, weirdly enough. Gypsies and Muslims, but not Jews.
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>>45327415
He's partially right; the Austro-Hungarian Empire WAS composed of Poland and lot of the territories of the Dual Monarchy, as well as itself being a Dual Monarchy.
He likely just doesn't know the history involved.
>>45327484
Modern Poland? Perogis. Just that. The Commonwealth?

Insane national diversity.
Very protective of individual freedoms.
Big on "I can legally rise up in rebellion if you oppress my regional freedoms".
Ethnic diversity mixed with complete intolerance of other ethnicities then yourself.
Some parts are modern and beautiful, other parts are basically third world.
Hapsburgs.
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>>45327484
Cossacks.
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>>45327598
>nsane national diversity.
>Very protective of individual freedoms.
>Big on "I can legally rise up in rebellion if you oppress my regional freedoms".
>Ethnic diversity mixed with complete intolerance of other ethnicities then yourself.
>Some parts are modern and beautiful, other parts are basically third world.
>Hapsburgs

That sounds....weirdly like the US does, except for that last part.
So, like if the Red States had legal authority to rise up and be mad when their states rights are being suppressed?
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>>45327674
That's a simplification, but yes.
Really, any large area with a democratic system and a large number of ethnic groups with laws that ensure local regional freedoms will probably end up looking pretty similar.
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>>45327674
Oh! I forgot Winged Hussars.
The most fabulous cavalry ever.
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>>45327767
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>>45327839
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>>45327864
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>>45327598
The real-life Commonwealth didn't have much naval power either (it's navy actually ceased to exist by the 17th century).
I wonder how that will translate into the traditionally navy-heavy setting of 7th Sea?
>>
>>45320042
$40. If you jump in at $40 you get all the pdfs of the new edition, plus all the pdfs of the old edition.
>>
>>45322222
Terribly different. That's a standard dice pool, and frankly it's absolutely fuck awful with small pools. With two dice in a stat and a single point in a skill Wick's Raise system has a high chance for at least a single Raise, allowing you to accomplish what you need, probably at a cost. With 2 dots in a Stat and 1 in a skill in a WW game, you're not going to get many successes, and this is compounded to be even worse if you make the target number for successes 8 instead of 6 or 7.
>>
>>45323191
Old 7th Sea is pretty decent. The primary problems if had were being a Wickian game - it tries to keep the players low powered, under the thumb of the GM, and in fear of the setting's NPC's.

The game itself is easily fixed by not playing it like your players need to be punished and adjusting starting HP and XP rewards. The game suggests 100HP to create a character and players gaining 1+however many drama dice they have left after a session in XP. Start your players with 150 HP, mete out 3-5 XP a game and let them spend their drama dice without fear that they're gimping their XP gain and the game runs smoothly and you have actual competent characters at creation instead of what are effectively only slightly stronger mooks.
>>
>>45329140
That's how I'm guessing this one will be; not really playable right off the bat but when modified becomes something good.
>>
>>45322695
Far West
>>
>>45322695
>>Tabletop games always give what they promise.

Robotech RPG Tactics and Dust disagree with you.
>>
>>45330179
>>45330346
It's very rare to find tabletop games that can't, even Dust was able to fulfill it's orders.

As for Robotech I'm surprised that anyone actually gave anything to them considering Palladium's history of not actually doing anything new or simply reprinting old games and treating them like new.
>>
>>45330346
Likewise Through the Breach. That was a clusterfuck of epic proportions.
>>
>>45330731
And the Goblins CCG. Thunt provided another fail to the stack.
>>
"The GM has a huge responsibility. The players
came to your table to have fun. Your job is
to make sure that happens. You could use
Consequences to make the Heroes’ lives more
interesting and dramatic, or you could use them
to simply screw the Heroes over.
Don’t choose the second option. Ever."

So I'm guessing which blurbs weren't written by Wick.
>>
>>45331040
Yeah, some of us have pointed out that while Wick may have written the actual rules the body text might have a different author, since we know he's not working on the project alone.
>>
>>45331231
The text is very Wickish, though. The informality. The sentence fragments.

Using one-sentence paragraphs for emphasis.
>>
>>45331231
Yeah, I'm just thinking back on the horror stories from Wick's Champions campaign, where players would give their characters full backgrounds and support casts, only for Wick to murder and traumatize them for the sake of drama.
>>
>>45331040
You seem to be implying Wick is self-aware of his That GMness. He probably thinks he's the most entertaining GM on the planet.
>>
>>45331281
He's probably the only TRPG author other then Rebecca Borgstrom who you can recognize just by how they write.
>>45331314
I've been GMed by him twice at conventions. It was entertaining, but not in an "I'd be willing to do that again" way.
More like in an "wow that was a horrible thing, but it was new at least" way.
>>
>>45331336
Have met Wick, can confirm. He comes to our local convention every year, and every year something new and humiliating happens.
>>
>>45331655
Lovely person, that guy.
>>
>>45331655
Stories? Stories!
>>
Ah, the Kickstarter has finally reached cruising speed. Now there'd only be a minuscule trickle of new backers until the final few hours, where we'll see the "final push".

Think it'll make it to 340,000$?
>>
Does anyone believe Wick would be really able to deliver by Oct 2016?
>>
>>45320218
Man it's really hard to find info on the guy with all the search results being some movie

I will keep looking but the main thing is he is fucking horrible.
>>
>>45335517
Ah screw it just look at these 2 threads it explains him pretty well http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/44715060/#44715060
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/44895222/#44895222
>>
>>45335517
>>45335620
Go to the kickstarter, see his video.

See how he looks?

He's EXACTLY the kind of person he looks.
>>
>>45334929
Probably. I doubt it'll do so soon, but definitely before the end.
>>
>>45337598
I think it might do it within the coming two days, if not today. It slowed down, but by Kickstarter standards (especially /tg/ related Kickstarters) it's still going astonishingly fast. Made over 10,000$ since just this morning.
>>
>>45321057
>Not Spain in Italy
>Not France in Spain
>Not Italy on Greece
What is the point? Its not like anyone would be fooled by this.

Also
>Ussura
Call it Slavgorod or something, saying Russi-a backwards while changing only one letter is retarded.
>>
>>45338343
>Call it Slavgorod or something, saying Russi-a backwards while changing only one letter is retarded.

Unlike naming half the countries after their own archaic name, naming Castille after an actual region of Spain, or just calling the entire Middle East "The Crescent Empire". These are way intelligent.
>>
>>45338411
Ussura doesn't even sound slavic, if you are going to inverse the word at least work with syllables.

And anyway, its not like I was saying that the name on the map was intelligent. On the contrary.
>>
>>45338436
I'm saying why single out Ussura? The names are all stupid.

On a sidenote, I don't have any idea what your problem with it is. I happen to speak Russian (albeit badly. Only one side of my family does) and while it doesn't sound like the name of a place, it most definitely sounds like a word, especially if you pronounce it correctly (which is to say, not the way John Wick does).
>>
>>45338467
I learned Russian in order to get together with a cute Russian girl.

It didn't work out too well.
>>
...And they've unlocked Heroes & Villains. Wick's going to have to come up with some more sourcebooks in a few hours.

Which ones do you think would come next?
>>
>>45335620
>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/44895222/#44895222
I'm halfway through the first thread and I already hope I never meet him in person. I'm afraid I'd make the 11 o'clock news.
>>
>>45339470
Whores & Jenny's; the book of Exploration Age prostitution.
>>
>>45339682
I'm not sure if I'd trust Wick with writing that.
>>
>>45339733
Honestly, his THAT GM-ness seems not to involve very much in the way of fetish interjecting and more in the way of being a prick.
>>
>>45339775
I know, what scares me is how he'll prostitutes to fuck the players up and gloat about it.
>>
>>45339470
Add some asian shit and they will eat it up
>>
>>45339839
You mean a Cathay book?
I don't know how much the stuff he published would look like the stuff from the old Cathay book; I don't think Wick had anything to do with the old book which means he'll probably use his old ideas.
>>
>>45339839

7th Sea already HAD an Asia area.
>>
>>45339880
You know he didn't have anything to do with it since it didn't have a Japan equivalent. If it was up to Wick, China, Korean, Vietnam, India, Mongolia, Thailand and Tibet could go fuck themselves if it means Japan gets the spotlight.
>>
>>45339948
Don't forget Ceylon/Sri Lanka.
That actually had a pretty cool villain there.
>>
>>45339839
Next two books on the line are for the city of Iskander and the Crescent Empire.

How long before it hits 360,000$?
>>
>>45340072
My guess is halfway through the month, but maybe even sooner if this process doesn't slow down.
I can't even believe how fast it's meeting the goals, it's pretty surprising. I know 7th Sea was well-loved but this popular?
>>
Shit, I might have to back this just for the 1st Edition PDFs.

I'm not sure how I feel about this new system, though. What does everyone else think of it?
>>
>>45340583
I think it's not perfect (there's some Wickian mechanics, especially Danger Dice) but it seems actually easier to modify then 1e's system was so that it works I think because it's not so clunky.
>>
Can someone more knowlegable about the setting explain how Vodacce became a prosperous trader nation despite a notable shortage of trading partners? The cresent empire is not buying anything from outsiders and the setting has no baltics or africa equailent.
>>
>>45340791
Presumably they traded with the other nations. Economics is never something RPG writers like to focus on anyway.
The issue of there being no New World to spark piracy being profitable was a frequently mentioned flaw of the old setting, so the introduction of a New World hopefully fixes that.
>>
>>45340287
Well, the KS basically promises easy to get PDFs of everything for a few bucks, so it's quite the deal in an already cheap hobby.
>>
>>45340873

There were the colonies in the Pseudo-Caribbean, but those came pretty late.
>>
>>45340287
>>45340883
Between the easy to get pdfs, and to be honest, the brilliant way they pulled off the newsletter.
You start a month or two before, getting some hype built.
Then, after some few emails, the 7 days of 7th Sea begins.
Every day the newsletter counted down to the kickstarter while also giving subscribers another detail.
They also got early access to the kickstart rules.

To be honest, it was incredibly well done.
>>
>>45341092
I gotta admit, his hypemaking skill is pretty good.
>>
For all of it's glaring discrepancies, 7th Sea was the thing that taught me the differences between a broadsword and a longsword and a small sword and a rapier.
>>
>>45341092
This is the real ticket. $40 for EVERY 1st Edition PDF, and the promise of a new game on the side? Anyone who had any affection for the original game would jump on that, even if they gave no fucks about 2e.
>>
..... huh.

I guess I might have to. Been a fan of this setting for years. Here's hoping for yet more broken shenanigans.

.......... also I would love for a d20 port again because I'm an idiot like that.
>>
>>45341697
>d20 port

HSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. A thousand thousand Sorte witches shall trim your flaccid destiny, you pustulent scion of a bleating goat's ulcer!
>>
>>45341796
Don't get me wrong! I love the setting, and I love the d10 system. I had so many great times playing through pretty much every bit of material me and my friends could get our hands on. Heck, we even played an Invisible College campaign (........ which was actually really fun)

but, far and away, the most fun I ever had with the setting was using the absolutely horribly balanced d20 stuff to make the absolutely stupidest characters I could.

At one point I had an assassin who I think would still crit if his dice magically rolled negative numbers, and at another point I made a monk who had something like 30 AC at level 3.

And I think I made an indestructible, teleporting, +2, keen, bastard sword that also somehow didn't count as a magic weapon. It was fun. Stupid, but fun.
>>
>>45339804

If this ever actually happened, you KNOW that every single whore the PCs ever railed would be a Sorte-using hyperfeminist Fate Witch who is ALSO a militant member of Sophia's Daughters, right?
>>
>>45343031
You know, I don't actually think the Sophia's Daughters is an inherently bad idea (secret society fighting for women's rights and has some mystical secrets inherited from Not-Jesus), but tying into the Sidhe and making them solely responsible for MAJOR historical developments and being the one society with the full picture (where the others only have bits and pieces of it) and having all of their morally dubious actions justified by the setting automatically is a terrible goddam idea.
The whole "SECRETS BEYOND THE VEIL" thing took over way too much of the old Secret Society books (excepting Los Vagos); they were interesting enough on their own without needing that crap....but that's Wick I guess.

Of course it the begs the question why Theah NEEDS a women's lib movement outside Vodacce when there several influential or important female characters and nothing is made mention of it being surprising that they're women and so formidable, but that's another thing.
>>
>>45319023
Well fuck. 400k goal is Crescent Empire. Between that and getting all the 1e books I'm in.

That said does anyone else find it mildly amusing that other books have big full color artwork of heroes for their images and the Crescent Empire gets a cropped down part of the map?
>>
>>45343816
I'm hoping this will evolve into a Cathay/Nippon sourcebook.
>>
>>45321961
Then you should be interested, read the kickstarter.

So far looks surprisingly sane for a Wick project. Roll and Keep is a great system, but a narrative system it wasn't. The quick start mechanics are unrefined but conceptually utile.
Give the kickstarter and quick start a read before too much frothing.
>>
>>45334899

>>45331655
here

>comes with his entourage (read: two assholes who drool about him on his podcast)
>invade the VtM LARP
>walk up to the ST
>"What are you gonna do if I don't want to be in your LARP?" - what he actually said
>ST: "uhh, we have players, so we won't mind."
>John gets offended
>his podcast buddies tear down a decorative cobweb thing
>he leaves, tells the ST to fuck off
>everyone flipping the ST and VtM players off like edgy high schoolers
>goes to the head of tabletop programming
>tells him the ST was disrespectful
>the ST gets banned from the con unless he publicly apologizes to John
>he doesn't, because why the fuck would he
>>
>>45335421
Does Wick have a history of not delivering on time? When I backed his Wield KS I got my stuff on time more or less, don't know about any others.
>>
>>45343950
Either he actually read the criticisms of his games or he has an amazing editor.
>>
>>45335421
The few kickstarters he's done seem to have been fulfilled on time.
>>
>>45343950
>The quick start mechanics are unrefined but conceptually utile.

The system is the slightly retooled version of the one used in JW's previous two games (House of the Blooded and Blood&Honor) - and you don't hear about those for a good reason. I wouldn't really call the rules "utile", not even conceptually.
>>
>>45344554
Are you a fan of narrative games?
TG as a whole seems to have mild antipathy.
>>
>>45319023
Probably not back, cause poorfag, but excited for the re-release, It's really nice to see the positive vibes in this thread, the last few have been a troll/flame fest.
>>
>>45344695
Yeah, I like them, but JW approaches narrative games from a rather weird perspective.

You see, my gaming group has played Blood&Honor quite a lot of time... and for JW propagating it as a samurai drama, it turned out to be ass-crazy wuxia adventuring all the time.
>>
>>45344554
The "reason you don't hear about them" is because they are self published books that are specifically counter to the main ttrpg market with a setting that had no previous fan base. 2nd best RP experience I had was playing HotB. Nothing is wrong with the game, it's not just mass market appealing.

That being said, this modified version of the rules actually seems like neither improvement nor deconstruction, but like the setting, a more traditional-player-friendly version. You're rolling to succeed instead of determine who has narrative control, but you're encouraged to put in narrative bits with additional raises. I still want to see the core book before I make a real judgement, but, preliminarily, this seems like a good start.
>>
>>45344189
Oh, also he came up to me during a game of Unknown Armies I was GMing and told me I should play better games, like the horror game he was working on.

This was in 2010.

His horror game still isn't out.

He also had a lot more shitty shit to say about UA, but I kinda zoned out when he started rambling.
>>
>>45343874
God, I really hope there is no Nippon book. Yes, I know the Dutch went over there, but those voyages took months and were hella dangerous, and I don't want imperial Japan just showing up for the hell of it.

>>45343816
That's probably just a mockup. He only commissioned so much art before going live.
>>
>>45344877
He once murdered my son and wasted my whole crew.
>>
>>45345076
I'd imagine they'd be far more important for a Cathay game but I like options with my games. Also lore.
>>
>>45345098
I told him he looked terrible and he said no, he looked retired.
>>
>>45340287
>My guess is halfway through the month
...aaannnd they're done in about three hours.
>>
>>45345714
Yeah, we're just 8k away from having the full Crescent book, and they haven't gotten around to marking 360k as beaten or put up additional stretch goals. I figure by the time I get home to actually drop my $40 in the bucket, it'll have gone over 400k.
>>
>>45345714
Not sure weather to be impressed or alarmed; what the hell is he gonna come up with for books at this point?
>>
>>45347623
Well, he still has NotChina, NotJapan and NotIndia for countries, plus all of NotAfrica. After that he can go to the Secret Society well to do all of that stuff. If he get really desperate, I guess he can do NotAustralia, NotSoutheast Asia, and NotPolynesia.
>>
>>45347664
He also could add more prop-like goodies, like Laerdom runes.
>>
>>45347664

Sounds like it's time for a 7th Sea/RIFTS crossover.

How could a project involving bothJohn Wick and Kevin Siembeida POSSIBLY go wrong?
>>
>>45347838
I'd be more inclined to ask what could possibly not go wrong
>>
>>45347838
I just threw up in my mouth a little.
>>
Fate Witch tit bump.

Seriously, have you ever seen a Fate Witch in the artwork without an amazing rack?
>>
>>45350820

Actually, no.

As it should be.
>>
>>45351176
How else would people fall for their "charms"?

No really, tell me.
>>
>>45350820

It's where they store their magic. Fate Threads emerge from their nipples via gentle 3rd-party massage.
>>
>>45350820
I rarely see ANY woman in 7th Sea artwork without an amazing rack, or else one hidden by armor or bulky clothing.
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>>45352624
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>>45322194
>ruthless and not very forgiving
Really? From reading the quick-start rules, it seems like it's almost impossible for PCs to downright fail at something. Even if they're complete shit at it, they get roughly half the points they need to succeed just from using a skill for the first time in a session. And if they get hurt as a consequence, so what? The way the plot point economy works, it's impossible to actually kill a PC, as the points available to prevent murders will be roughly 4-5 times the number of points required to cause them.
>>
>>45355757
Actually, this isn't how it works. To really succeed, a PC would need roughly 4 Raises: 1 for getting the Intention and 3 to nullify the Consequences. Not getting the Intention is obviously counterproductive, while not busting the Consequences usually make your Intention moot (like, you jump from one roof to the other, but the roof breaks under you as you land, making the whole fucking jump pointless even though it was successful). To get 4 Raises, you have to roll 8+ dice (you can get away with 7 if you are lucky). And that's a lot of dice. It looks like the PC will usually roll 5-6 dice, so he will always suck up at least one Consequence that can potentially tarnish his Intent - in essence, he will fail even when he succeeds.

This, of course, only stands if the GM is nice enough to make it happen and doesn't troll the PC's roll into shit with Danger Points.
>>
>>45350820
They now need to kiss people to make their magic work.

Web veils would just get in the way of a combat kisser.
>>
>>45319462
7th sea dropped roll keep in this edition
>>
>>45356215
Consequences do not nullify the intention. They do something else, something unrelated. If a player can scrape together the 10 points required to overcome the risk, which they can easily do from bonus dice alone, the intention WILL come to pass.

the only way to get danger points is by giving players hero points when they roll ones. The only way for the GM to come out ahead on danger points is by waiting for the players to roll 1 multiple times on the same roll, which doesn't happen very often with dice pools of 5-6d10. In contrast, the players can come out ahead on hero points by doing all manner of things, like token roleplaying or choosing to fail a roll that didn't matter in the first place.
>>
>>45356468
The Consequences can nullify the intention. The rulebook is full with examples, including the roof-jumping one I mentioned. You can alert the guards while picking a lock as a Consequence, or all all sorts of fuckery to happen.

Not to mention that you might spend more than one Raise to get your Intent do something flashy and awesome... you know, doing something swashbuckly. In turn, you will have less Raises to cancel Consequences, and you will suck just because you want to run with the theme. And after all done and settled, you still did nothing theatrical or narrative, because it also needs Raises.

Also, Hero Points are weaker than Danger Points. That +1 dice won't help much when your GM increases the grouping limit to 15, and unless you use the Hero Points to help (+3 dice), the NPCs will get more dice (+2) from Danger Points than you from Hero Points. And of course the GM removes the 1s from your roll when he buys the Danger Points, so he may fuck up the grouping. And there is an increasing chance for multiple 1s as you roll more dice, so the game effectively penalizes you for being good with something.
>>
>>45356599
I must admit it is GREAT that using hero points to help another PC results in a lot more dice than helping yourself.

That said, with this system you're going to get assholes stating impossible/ridiculous Intents (even for buckling the occasional swash) and bitching when they don't get exactly what they want.
>>
>>45356599
In those cases, you did still jump the roof and pick the lock if you overcame the risk. It's just that some extra bad thing happened as you did it.

And that ability to spend a danger point to increase the grouping limit to 15? That's the only way the GM has to increase the difficulty of any risk. He has to spend a resource he gets very sparingly to increase a risk from DC 10 to DC 15 when people are rolling 20-30 on average even at things they're not specialized in. And that's also the resource he has to spend to do pretty much anything else that threatens the PCs.

Consider the very first risk in the quickstart adventure. The PCs have to run across an open ballroom while dozens of men are shooting directly at them with muskets and crossbows. You'd think that would be very difficult. But no, it's just DC 10. The PCs won't even get significantly injured - there is effectively no chance that they'll even get a dramatic wound from running right into the line of fire.
>>
>>45355757
I was speaking of the ORIGINAL rules, not the QuickStart up above.
>>
>>45356599
Hero points are stronger than danger points. You're always going to use hero points to help someone else rather than spend them on yourself. You'd be an idiot not to. The same number of points get spent either way, but one is three times as effective. So a hero point is effectively worth three dice while a danger point is only worth two. And hero points are much easier to get. You just have to trick the GM into calling for a roll where it isn't absolutely essential (like asking if your character knows some obscure piece of information) and then choosing to fail the roll. You don't have to worry about consequences because 100% of your roll is going toward negating consequences, and anyway, how bad could the consequences of a Know roll possibly be?
>>
>>45356265
To be fair, "one of the pregenerated characters" needs to kiss people to make her magic work. We still have no idea how the full Sorte rules look like.
>>
>>45324614
Sure you do, FATE and SW, while not perfect for everything, are great for swashbuclking adventure.
>>
>>45356678
>It's just that some extra bad thing happened as you did it.

Yeah, and that "extra bad thing" can nullify your Intent. Yeah, you have succeeded, but you can smear your achievement on your hair, because it worth exactly that much. You pick the lock and alert the guards - but then what was the point of picking the lock in the first place?

>>45356813
>You're always going to use hero points to help someone else rather than spend them on yourself.

Except when you are, like, alone.
>>
>>45357210
"All for one and one for all" is French for "never split the party."
>>
>>45344227
I think it was like one time where he was really late, and since he's just so easily hateable otherwise people had an easy time remembering it against him.
>>
>>45348315
I believe that this is the joke.
>>
>>45357077
It was like that in the first edition, too. No reason to assume that it's changed in this one.
>>
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>>45357210
With a reasonable GM "alert the guards" is not "WE FOUND YOU, SCOUNDREL! SURRENDER AT ONCE!", it's "Huh? Was that wind?" - something that may make further stealth rolls riskier, but doesn't nullify the intent itself.

>>45356813
>and anyway, how bad could the consequences of a Know roll possibly be?
ha.
hahaha.
hahahahahahahahaha oh boy you have no idea.
>>
>>45356813
>and anyway, how bad could the consequences of a Know roll possibly be?

Never played a bard, huh?
>>
>>45358563
>With a reasonable GM "alert the guards" is not "WE FOUND YOU, SCOUNDREL! SURRENDER AT ONCE!", it's "Huh? Was that wind?" - something that may make further stealth rolls riskier, but doesn't nullify the intent itself.

By removing Danger Dice (because it's the Wick Is a Dick Mechanic) and ensuring you have a GM that understands "Consequences does not equal Failure" I think this game will be quite playable.

The real problem will be find a GM who understands the latter. There's a lot I flatly wouldn't trust to do that because their thinking is far too rigid based on their most favored choices of games.
>>
>>45358629
Personally, i think in a cinematic system like 7th sea it's stupid to roll to see whether PC -can- jump the roof. In situations like that i'd make a roll with 0 successes needed for intent, but with fair number of consequences (you fall awkwardly and get hurt, you do not jump far enough and have to hang onto the roof and climb up, giving pursuers time to close the gap, you crash through the window one story lower than you need). These are combineable and don't end in supposedly swashbuckling hero falling awkwardly into the street below like some chump.
>>
>>45358720
This seems a fair way to do it, actually.
I'll probably take this idea for my game.
>>
>>45358720
This would be the optimal way to do things, but according to the examples in the rulebook, the intention is very far from this.

Though, "Wick not understanding his own mechanics" might be in work (again).
>>
New Kickstarter goals showed up.
One of em is....songs for the setting on a CD? They're really reaching here now.
>>
>>45359423
I doubt they expected it to garner this much support. I certainly didn't, because even though I loved 7th Sea back in the day and still do, I always thought it was kind of obscure compared to L5R.
>>
>>45359474
Ditto, on all accounts.
It's actually hard for me to believe because one of the reasons the line was canceled was because the CCG sold less then either Warlords or L5R, so they cut it to minimize losses.
Either what qualifies for "selling less" still indicates a truly substantial fanbase or most of the folks were more a fan of the RPG, not the CCG.
>>
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seems like he's born again
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>>45359573
Yet, in the rules section, all the Consequences listed are screwing over the PCs. Hell, the Contested Risk example includes a double-screw! I think this sidebar was not written by Wick.
>>
>>45359912
My interpretation as well. Either that, or Wick knows how to talk ABOUT the GM not having to screw the players over, but cannot actually bring himself up to think of examples of that.
>>
The Kickstarter is starting to get weird. The non-Facebook/Twitter achievements are kinda out there and bizarre, and latest stetch goal is an album of John Wick's old bandmate singing sea shanties?
>>
>>45362407
Foam-only swordfight is weaksauce. I'm sure there are some light combat SCA guys or even just dedicated LARPers who could do a 2 minute stage combat with steel.
>>
>>45362407
I'm excited to see what weird shit they come up with after that goal gets hit
>>
As a bump, have my guide to 7th Sea Booze types for your campaigns. Honestly, I referenced this on my GM screen more than the Swordsman Knacks chart.
>>
>>45367689
Holy crap, saved!
>>
>>45367689
>Ninannia de Falisci
>A risk; most - but not all - bottles are known to contain a deadly poison.

Vodacce in a nutshell.
>>
>>45367689
Are the percentages ABV? Because holy fuck those are some high ABV's.

Gull which I presume to be a Guinness equivalent, has 12-15% ABV when Guinness is more like 4%. MacEachern Gold Ale is 40% ABV? And described as 'watery?' That's fucking astounding, and up there in the top 10 of modern highest ABV beers.

Vendel/Vesten Ale at 14% is also crazy fuck strong.
>>
>>45343874
>>45345076

Isn't that just L5R? Weren't there hints at points that it was the same universe?
>>
>>45368448
They've never been the same universe. The rules of magic are completely different.
>>
>>45368328

Those are based on a bunch of historical stuffs. Historical booze tended to break down into three distinct groups: very watery 2-5% stuff (small beers would fall in here for day-to-day drinking instead of water), 10-15% stuff (mostly wines, but also *real* period beers), and hard liquor in the 40% ABV range. There's also a small, select group of 40% beers which actually still exist today, mostly out of (IIRC) Belgian monks.

I can cite sources if you want, but I'd prefer not to, since they're scattered all over the damn place.
>>
>>45368448
No, and in fact there were significant hints to the contrary actually.
The only theme that recurred in both was the idea of lost and ancient non-human races that have all nearly died out, but that's fairly common in fantasy in general.
>>
>>45368328
Short version?
Modern alcohol is watered down as fuck by comparison, as well as us having more advanced brewing technologies allowing for more precise mixtures.
>>
>>45368604
In all fairness, it's repeatedly shown (via Legends of the Burning Sands) that the Rokugani hardly have a perfect understanding of magic themselves.
And in 7th Sea there are form of sorcery that aren't capital S Sorcery, but these are generally weaker and less flashy.
>>
>>45368687
Nah, I know a lot of period liquors and beers were actually brewed with higher ABV's than intended and expected to be watered down after shipping.

But still - Gull in particular evoking Guinness when being 3x stronger strikes me as odd, as well as MacEachern Gold being described as watery.

Actually, if you have sources on the 30% or higher ales, I'd love to give them a read. I understand how you can get fairly high ABV's through starting with a good strain and then going to fractional freezing, but from what I understand historic beers that were jacked usually only got to 25% tops because it was dependent on the weather.
>>
>>45368792
Modern alcohol is often sold pre-watered, yes. But distillation is different from brewing, so the thing that strikes me about the high ABV's is beers over 12%. Historically, the yeast tends to kill itself once you start getting into the teens, and this stops any further fermentation. Even the best modern strains only make it to 17ish percent.
>>
I had forgotten how awesome rune magic was
>>
>>45359264
I've heard the issue is that Wick doesn't use his own mechanics, and so he has no idea how they work. Apparently, he's written multiple adventures where things that appear to perfectly fit one of the game subsystems are instead resolved by GM fiat.

If all your fights are decided by GM fiat, of course you'd have no idea how the combat rules actually work.
>>
>>45369490
Laerdom was one of the only GOOD sorceries. All the others were too expensive for what you got.
>>
>>45369892

Pretty much this. Although pulling a loaded cannon out of thin air with Porte was surprisingly useful.

Oh, and Dracheneisen was worth it. Given that it's basically "Eisen Sorcery".
>>
Page 1 to 10 in 30 minutes. Nice.
>>
>>45370539
Glamour was also very good if only because it's insane versatility.

>Oh, and Dracheneisen was worth it. Given that it's basically "Eisen Sorcery".
Though the Eisen DID have their own Sorcery bloodline, the Entropy one. It was just even more extinct then the Castillan Fire magic one so once the original Imperators died or rather were assassinated en-masse by the Rilasciare, it was COMPLETELY gone, unlike El Fuego.
Though I honestly prefer Dracheneisen.
>>
>>45368967
>But still - Gull in particular evoking Guinness when being 3x stronger strikes me as odd, as well as MacEachern Gold being described as watery.

Gull was taken verbatim from the old 7th Sea website. MacEachern Gold is almost certainly a fuckup on my part - I'm pretty sure I transposed the ABV from something else; 15% seems about right. Watery was a reference to the texture under the head, not the taste or a reference to being "watered-down", though.

A good resource to start with would be McDonnell's, "The Closet of Sir Kenelme Digby Knight Opened." As an example from that source: a modern practice to increase a beer's alcohol content is to add cane sugar. To do so in a period manner, instead, add honey to the wort (which produces a drink technically termed "Braggot"; a Honey Ale), usually adding 10-15% ABV on its own.

Additionally, it would be good to look into period Old Ales and Majority Ales. The former were aged for a year at least, and easily were in the 10-15% range. Majority ales were aged 16, 18, or 21 years (see, "Old British Beers and How To Make Them") and were described as being as potent as mead (giving a range of between 15-40%). Storing the beer in warmer or colder conditions would also affect the final ABV by between 2-8%.

Finally for now, Belgian Abbey Beers range between 7%-25% (I cited this incorrectly, above) fairly routinely. A bunch of the certified Abbey Beers are 500+ year old recipies and processes, so having beer in this range should be reasonable. Again, I'm pretty sure I fucked up the MacEachern Gold. Downside of a Vodacce/Vendel/Montaigne-centered campaign: the Avalon stuff didn't get used much.
>>
>>45371237
>Though the Eisen DID have their own Sorcery bloodline

It doesn't really count, given the whole "blatantly and irrevocably extinct" thing.
>>
About half a year ago one of my friend noted the weird similarities the Assassin's Creed games had to 7th Sea, especially after the second game where swashbuckling is more in abundance; ancient conspiracies, fantastical technology from precursor races that is basically magic, etc.
If you remove the vague association with the Middle-Eastern group, the Rilasciare is weirdly similar to the Assassins, being a secret cabal of plotters and notables who try to overthrow authority figures on their belief that absolute freedom is an inalienable right. Even their fighting style is extremely similar, using two stilettos for combat and assassination.

The Templars smack of NOM quite a bit, though as I recall nobody in the Rilasciare except their leader was aware NOM existed and thus they didn't actively fight each other.
>>
>>45371861
In all fairness the Rilasciare are mildly better then the Assassins, who seem to exist solely to kill Templars and nothing else; the Rilasciare put emphasis on trying to form republican governments and overthrowing ANY corrupt authority, though I seem to recall that a lot of them suck at it and they have middling succeesses overall.
They also only take life for their cause after convening a secret jury thing where they weigh a person's crimes against humanity, at least in their definition of "crimes".
>>
>>45368762
>>45368820
Another piece of evidence we have that this isn't the case is that Rokugan has made contact with at least two "European" nations (Thrane and Merenae, which are "not-England" and "not-Spain" respectively). Aside from being named differently, it seems that the Europeans of this setting do not have magic (or if they do, it's so different from Rokugani or Burning Sands magic as to be unrecognizable as what it is) and, more importantly, are POST-APOCALYPTIC. In what must've seemed to someone to be an ironic turn of events, in this world, it was the EUROPEANS who caught an awful disease they weren't immune to from the natives of a country they tried to invade. Cue 90% of Europe dying and the rest being reduced to roving scavengers.
>>
>>45372941
The massive disease that killed the Thrane and Marenrae actually was a late addition to the storyline (around the time the Spider Clan became a thing), basically a way of explaining why the storyteam would never, EVER allow those particular gaijin nations from ever becoming relevant.
Up until a mysterious Disease from the Plot Dimension not only are they portrayed as thriving rival cultures, they were actively trading with the Tortoise Clan in secret.

But this discussion belongs in another thread entirely I think.
>>
>>45369892
I kinda like the Crescent Sorcery, but yeah, it's underpowered compared to Porte, Sorte, Laerdom and Dracheneisen.
>>
I gotta give it to Wick: in terms of what I'm promised to get compared to how much I paid, this must be, by hundreds if not THOUSANDS of percents, the most "worthwhile" kickstarter I've backed.
>>
>>45362407
I can't tell if we've just started to run out of interested backers, or if the backers who were all for dropping in for additional books are recoiling from the weird. We just barely squeaked by the 470k goal, not hitting 500k as fast as we hit 300k.
>>
>>45374778
>not hitting 500k as fast as we hit 300k.
Of course not, most of the people that want to back the game have now backed the game. Now it's new people and people who were late in hearing about the kickstarter campaign. We'll probably get a trickle of backers until the last few days.
>>
>>45374815
When they open more limited slots on the top pledges during the weekend is going to bump again.
>>
>>45374778
This is actually very normal for Kickstarters. Usually what happens is the vast majority of backers actually join in around the beginning of a project, then throughout most of its life it "coasts", gathering relatively little, then there's a "spike" towards the very end of its life which makes up some 10% more of the money or so. This one seems to have just reached its coasting period. From now on, you won't see anything like what happened in the first day (e.g. 300,000$ per day), and won't see anything NEAR that until the very ending.

Which makes sense. As you said, most people who were really interested have already given their backing. From now on until the very end (where people who want to be "absolutely sure" or want to know just "what they're getting into" will jump in to give their backings) the only people coming in are going to be those who either didn't hear about this or didn't know - and since Wick made so absolutely certain that ANYONE with amount of interest in 7th Sea would damn hear about this (which is exactly why it made so much money in the beginning), these won't be many people.
>>
>>45357840
Now you link the fate to objects so you can a give for exampla a cursed sword to an enemy so he fight badly or a blessed sword to a mate.

You can curse wine or food so one enemy have to go to a bathroom ,curse a rose so a one guy dont get the girl or bless it so it works like a love potion.
>>
>>45375927
No, now you need to link it to a SKILL. How the hell did you read that as an "object"? It even gives examples that make no sense otherwise.
>>
>>45321057
IT'S LITERALLY EUROPE
>>
>>45376202
No shit, Sherlock.
>>
>>45376202
No, there's lots of differences.
Besides which, the map is a vast improvement on the original which was vaguely European in shape but was totally nonsensical in it's placement of rivers and mountains and such.
>>
Alright, so the system appears to be the following:
>Attribute + Skill d10 dice pool
>Every group of dice adding up to 10 is one success
>Every success lets you choose one of five options, some multiple times
>These options include succeed at your task, not suffering consequences (i.e. penalties or damage) as part of said attempt, reducing damage directly, dealing damage to nearby characters, or establishing fictional details
>Players accumulate Hero Points as a resource to improve their odds in certain tests, and the GM has a Danger Point resource that does the opposite
>Characters seem to start with 2 dots in each attribute, plus 3 dots to divide freely to a maximum of 5.
>Characters seem to start with between 15 and 19 dots in skills
>Virtues and Hubris affect Hero Point gain and use
>Characters have five or six Advantages, most of which add situational bonus dice or improve hero point expenditure

So, my quick thoughts on the game...
1) The Death Spiral is literally the opposite of a Death Spiral, because it gives characters BONUSES when they're lightly and heavily injured. Yes, the moderate injury helps villains against the character but I don't see how getting stabbed in the arm is going to make your character better at dancing at the fancy ball. 'Adrenaline' my ass, injuries should hinder, not help, the character.
2) A lot of Advantages are just 'spend a point to get a huge bonus or do something automatically'. I'm not a big fan of 'I Win' buttons like this.
3) Why are they using d10 dice pools when d6s do the same thing? Reduce the required dice total to 6 and it's essentially the same. d6 are way eaiser to find, especially if you're new to PnP games.
4) What's the point of fighting with a sword when brawling is exactly as effective, plus they can't take your sword away from you? All it takes is one roll and the villain can snap your sword in half and declare there aren't any swords within 200 feet of your fight.

6/10 for me so far.
>>
>>45376795
>The Death Spiral is literally the opposite of a Death Spiral, because it gives characters BONUSES when they're lightly and heavily injured. Yes, the moderate injury helps villai
I assume the Death Spiral was cheekily named as it's in a game made by the man who helped create the ORIGINAL game with a death spiral mechanic.

>'Adrenaline' my ass, injuries should hinder, not help, the character.
Did you know that pirates rarely if ever did anything especially cool (mostly they attacked poorly armed merchants and ran from real fights), and swashbuckling heroism is completely made-up?
True story.

It sounds like you wanted a very simulationist swashbuckling pirate system which is odd because simulationism (that is, realism) goes completely against the grain of everything the genre is actually trying to do; there is nothing remotely realistic about the Three Musketeers, the Scarlet Pimpernell, Zorro, Pirates of the Carribean, or any of the genres 7th Sea is taking inspiration from at all.
>>
>>45376795
>>45376887
I'm surprised nobody else' as concerned as I about the fact that, RAW, it seems like some villains are going to have nearly a hundred Wounds you gonna need to whittle through to defeat them. With maybe 2 Raises per round going into causing them wounds. Players gonna need to bring food and sleeping bags to sessions so they can get through duels...
>>
>>45377009
>Super special NPCs are nearly invincible
>In Wick's game
Color me surprised.

>>45372941
>>45373111
>>45371237
>Here's cool thing i won't ever stat BECAUSE IT DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE IN MUH METAPLOT HA HA HA
this bothers me far more than it should.
>>
>>45377065
>Super special NPC
There are two Villains in the sample adventure. One has 64 Wounds and the other has 81. It seems to be standard for them. If all Villains are this overpowered, this goes far beyond any Wick game to date.
>>
>>45377065
>this bothers me far more than it should.
It does. Are you angry that the Dark Heresy core book doesn't have stats for every single DAoT piece of hardware, or that Shadowrun doesn't have a system for Earthdawn style magic?
>>
>>45376795
>'Adrenaline' my ass, injuries should hinder, not help, the character.
This is a swashbuckling narrative game, it's all about style. A hero who is covered in blood, missing one eye and draped in a tattered flag should be doing more badass things than one who just got out of bed in perfect health.

>Why are they using d10 dice pools when d6s do the same thing? Reduce the required dice total to 6 and it's essentially the same. d6 are way eaiser to find, especially if you're new to PnP games.
You might say the same about any game that uses d10s. Do you actively hate d10s?

>What's the point of fighting with a sword when brawling is exactly as effective, plus they can't take your sword away from you? All it takes is one roll and the villain can snap your sword in half and declare there aren't any swords within 200 feet of your fight.
Again, this is true in other systems as well. If it's anything like the previous system, you'll end up doing slightly less damage unless you have completely over the top brawn.

Also, using a sword is much more stylish.
>>
>>45376795
>The Death Spiral is literally the opposite of a Death Spiral, because it gives characters BONUSES when they're lightly and heavily injured. Yes, the moderate injury helps villains against the character but I don't see how getting stabbed in the arm is going to make your character better at dancing at the fancy ball. 'Adrenaline' my ass, injuries should hinder, not help, the character.

No, in context of a swashbuckling game this is a very good thing. We talked about this already.

How it would interact with the rest of the game, however, is another thing.
>>
>>45377083
I haven't read the quick start adventure carefully, do you need to kill them?

If not, it's probably because it seems to be a very railroady adventure and you can't be allowed to kill those characters.

If so, maybe it's a mistake or the entire group is supposed to take them on together?
>>
>>45377108
>This is a swashbuckling narrative game, it's all about style. A hero who is covered in blood, missing one eye and draped in a tattered flag should be doing more badass things than one who just got out of bed in perfect health.
Actually, that's completely contrary to the conventions of the swashbuckling genre. It'd fit in a narrative game based on war films, or horror films, or martial arts films, or Westerns... Countless other genres, it'd have been a good thing. Swashbuckling heroes very rarely get wounded like this. It's usually a binary thing for them. They're either completely fine or they're wounded so badly they're out of the scene (or dead). Ironically, this is one of those places where a NOMRAL "death spiral" would've been extremely appropriate.

>>45377146
Neither battle is absolutely REQUIRED, but the second one (81 Wounds) is a "have this fight or you essentially consign to getting a bad end" scenario. You have to win the duel or you have to surrender the character you've been protecting to the enemy.

And they're both duels. The first one takes place when a certain character is separated from the group, the second is an official duel.
>>
>>45377112
>No, in context of a swashbuckling game this is a very good thing.
How many pirate films have you watched when this happens? It's more of a samurai movie thing.

Which wouldn't surprise me one bit. It's very much like Wick to forget when he is and isn't doing a samurai game.
>>
>>45377097
Those are kinda different things. DAoT hardware is just additional metal bitz, and shadowrun isn't earthdawn anymore (and its own magic system works very well).

What got the cut here are entire potentially very interesting systems that are alluded to, but not present. And homebrewing for Wick's games is much harder than doing custom stuff in DH or SR.
>>
>>45377216
The game is not about Europe. It's about Japan. It was a very conscious decision to keep it that way, and for once, it was handled well. Nothing kills a highly focused game of this sort like spilling completely out of the frame it was supposed to have. That's why Pendragon's 5th edition had to remove half the core rulebook. Between the magicians and the Saracens and the fairies and the vikings and what not, the 4th edition was barely even about Arthurian knights anymore.
>>
>>45377190
>Swashbuckling heroes very rarely get wounded like this.
You've seen the Princess Bride, right? And the Mark of Zorro? What about the Pirates of the Carribean?
>>
>>45377216
>And homebrewing for Wick's games is much harder than doing custom stuff in DH or SR

Not THAT hard.
I've been doing it since 1998 and it's not noticeably more difficult then doing it for 2e D&D.
>>
>>45377253
The ones where heroes effectively go out of the fight once they're wounded like this, only returning to the next fight in practically perfect condition? Yes, I have.
>>
>>45377247
Okay, Rokugan i understand (and anyway, wasn't plague Post-Wick?).

I was more sad about two whole magic systems that do not exist anymore because of metaplot nobody follows.
>>
>>45377253
Those films are perfect models of the 1st edition Death Spiral, not the 2nd one. Yes, heroes get ragged and all but that's when they begin to LOSE, not win. If they win, it's by some kind of miracle, or because the circumstances are enormously in their favor. You can practically see the penalties written on their forehead.
>>
>>45377285
The plague was nearly a decade post-Wick.
>>
>>45377275
>>45377253
>>45377207
>>45377190
Concerning dramatic wounds:

I always thought they were not really WOUNDS wound, but more like "ooh, it's serious now" scratches. So like scraping someone's side or cheek, cutting the strap of cuirass or driving opponent into corner. The real wound is "helpless" condition, where you get seriously hit and fall, clutching the wound (only for your buddy to distract the villain). So less "meat points" and more "plot armor".

>Neither battle is absolutely REQUIRED, but the second one (81 Wounds) is a "have this fight or you >essentially consign to getting a bad end" scenario. You have to win the duel or you have to surrender the >character you've been protecting to the enemy.

>And they're both duels. The first one takes place when a certain character is separated from the group, the >second is an official duel.

WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICK
>>
>>45377275
>The ones where heroes effectively go out of the fight once they're wounded like this
Not, but seriously, have you seen the Princess Bride? Specifically the vengeance scene?
>>
>>45376795
The Death Spiral is weirder than that. Having an even number of dramatic wounds is bad, but having an odd number of dramatic wounds is good. Whoever wrote this shit was just fucking around.

>>45377009
>>45377146
I thought the dueling rules were some kind of mistake or omission. Since it says that it's not a duel to the death, I thought maybe it was a duel to first blood so that the first duelist to take a dramatic wound loses? But it never says that anywhere.

And it's just a shitty set of rules even aside from the fact that a duel to the death would take all year. Disengage is completely useless, as the opponent gets one maneuver afterward that he can spend all his remaining raises on, meaning you didn't save yourself from any wounds. Lunging is meant to be a high-risk-high-reward thing, but whoever gets more raises can just do one at the end of each round for no risk at all.
>>
>>45377376
Yes. This is why I know that the hero is, promptly, effectively "taken out" and no longer has significant effect on the plot until far later. His wounds drag him down, not the other way around. In RPG terms, what he did was burn massive amounts of Drama Dice, not get any kind of consistent bonus.
>>
>>45377275
>The ones where heroes effectively go out of the fight once they're wounded like this, only returning to the next fight in practically perfect condition? Yes, I have.
That's the exact opposite of what happens in the Mark of Zorro! The 1940 version, anyway, which by far the best. He even says "I needed that scratch to awaken me!" when he's injured.
>>
>>45377365
It's a weirdly written adventure. That first duel relies on trying to get one of the PCs to split the party for literally no reason. And there's that NPC who asks to come along with the party, which is pretty standard, but then if they say yes she runs away immediately down a hallway and the party is expected not to go with her. Not to mention, she is the main villain's daughter, someone who's been offered as a bride to one of the PCs multiple times, obviously an important political player with dubious loyalties, and yet the possibility of taking her as a hostage is never even considered.
>>
>>45377438
Again, this is when you burn Drama Dice. It's not a consistent bonus. Getting wounded marks the spot after which every real physical feat performed is clearly taking a toll. A reverse death spiral is a very clumsy, upside down way of portraying that. I'd get it if heroes gained Drama Dice for being wounded, but giving them flat bonuses actually reverses the narrative effect.

Again, this would've been a perfectly good rule to have in a samurai game, a war game or a Western game, since this really is how those genres operate. It doesn't fit in a swashbuckling game.
>>
>>45321776

> Raaaaayyyyyyseeeeeest!

Plese kill yourself, you are the cancer why we can't have nice things
>>
>>45377478
>Again, this is when you burn Drama Dice. It's not a consistent bonus. Getting wounded marks the spot after which every real physical feat performed is clearly taking a toll. A reverse death spiral is a very clumsy, upside down way of portraying that. I'd get it if heroes gained Drama Dice for being wounded, but giving them flat bonuses actually reverses the narrative effect.
Except that in the Mark of Zorro, that's not what happens. He moves faster and overpowers Basil Rathbone. He really does look like he's been awoken.

>Again, this would've been a perfectly good rule to have in a samurai game, a war game or a Western game, since this really is how those genres operate. It doesn't fit in a swashbuckling game.
I'm not the same anon as the one disagreeing with you. I think you're probably right, this would work better in other gamers. However, it does fight with what happens in The Mark of Zorro though not any of swashbuckling films I can think of.
>>
>>45377535
>fight with what happens
Sorry, meant fit.
>>
>>45377535
>it does fight with what happens in The Mark of Zorro
Drama Dice. This is what they're for. Dramatic moments. Drama. It's in the name.
>>
Anyone got any good stories from 1st edition?
>>
>>45377624
I ran the system with a slightly alternative setting; 1640's earth, with a made up pantheon of secret deities including King Louie in Versaille.
The few of the Pantheon that were not dormant were attempting to keep the others that way and take dominion over their domains, chiefly Louie.
Without telling him or anyone, I made one of the players a god, the Irish god of Luck and Travel, whose emergence from dormancy put him in a human body. This pretty much meant he couldn't die, but he wouldn't know it unless the situation came up.
Turns out, he played his character as a flighty opportunist, constantly ready to escape from situations, exceedingly so when he eventually got the ability from Avalonian magic to blink between objects when spending a drama dice.

Having spent the whole campaign neatly avoiding danger, the final two sessions saw him demolish negotiations by stealing a valuable trinket from a dread pirate, blinking onto an empty ship, and sailing away as the situation turned into a bloodbath, killing two player characters and leaving a third unconscious on the enemy ship. Meanwhile, the only character that couldn't die sails away unscathed after ruining everything.
>>
>>45376887
>>45377009
>>45377108
>>45377112
>>45377393
You all seem to have misunderstood my point. In the system, having a Dramatic Wound grants your character an additional die on all Risks (i.e. all dice roll contests, opposed or unopposed). This means that having a stab wound in your shoulder, or having been shot in the leg, makes a character more competent at the following tasks:
>Setting and disarming traps
>Lying
>Persuasion
>Empathy
>Various types of Knowledge, from History to the Occult
>Bribery
>Riding a horse
>Sculpting, painting, and various kinds of performance art

Why is it that a painter is strictly less competent when he's perfectly healthy than when he's suffering internal bleeding? How does having 1st-degree burns on your hands make you more competent at picking locks? This mechanic makes no sense - and I'm not complaining about realism here. I'm complaining about how this is seen diegetically. The characters in the game know that when they're lightly injured they perform better at all tasks, in the same way that a D&D character knows that armour protects them from weapon attacks, or that torches tend to have a certain range to the light they shed, or that assisting someone else at a challenge will actually provide a meaningful benefit to them.

Sure, characters don't know about attribute scores, or skill points, or hit points, but they can gauge how strong someone is, or observe how proficient they are in a task, and they can get a general sense of how injured someone is. When people start performing better at ALL tasks when lightly injured, that changes how people see the world, how they see themselves, and how they see others.
>>
>>45379572
Because it's a rather abstract, narrativist system. The assumption is that when it's time to suffer dramatic wounds, you'd be doing dramatic things, so it's unlikely you'll be taking the bonus to paint with. Unless you're like painting your final great masterpiece with your own blood as Mozart booms in the background, a final message to the mundane world that your brilliance could not be contained in flesh, before slumping down dead on the floor in front of the wall covering painting.
>>
>>45379672
Nowhere in Dramatic Wounds does it state that the bonuses only apply to 'dramatic things'. All rolls are Risks, regardless of whether you're sword-fighting with your eternal rival or trying to remember the family history of the seductive noblewoman you're speaking with. Therefore, the best thing to do before going to a fancy ball, or representing a friend in court, is to literally shoot yourself in the foot because the pain will make you more charming and knowledgeable.
>>
>>45379772
Actually, it specifically says that Risks are for dramatic actions. That's why they're called "Risks".
>>
>>45379859
How is defending a friend in court not a 'risky or dramatic action'? Maybe the woman you're speaking to made up her family history and is actually an assassin planning to kill you once she seduces you. Nothing says that social and knowledge checks can't be important and laden with consequences. If they weren't worthy of Risks they wouldn't be listed as Skills, ergo a Knowledge check is a valid Risk.
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[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Home]

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