Some good advice so far, but if you followed that and you're really afraid your guy is edgy after all, just play him a bit more tongue-in-cheek and you're good -- he'll stop being edgy and start being metal.
Because the main difference between edgy and metal is that the former demands to be taken 100% seriously, while the latter still has a sense of humor.
>Villains fighting for good goals with good intentions, but refuse to admit what they're doing is making everything worse >Villain who uses deeply morally questionable means to attain his good goals, doesn't wanna be evil, has some redeeming features, or even a reason outside their control for doing evil >Selfish as fuck villains, they do evil shit because it helps numero uno. Their goal is usually evil (everything from taking your lunch money to pillaging a city they couldn't pay protection money) and they'll be cruel without a second thought. >Villains who revel in evil for the sake of being cunts. Normally mentally ill. Cannibals, sadists, harming children for fun, etc. >Evil. No redeeming features at all, pain & suffering gets them off.
A villain that thinks of the heroes almost as friends. Or at least as friendly rivals rather than outright threats. Like he's setting up his latest scheme, and he's thrilled to hear that the party are the ones who will be opposing him, since they always make things such fun.
Basically there should not be a hatred between either side. Imagine a situation where a greater evil emerges, the villain and the heroes should have no problem, and ideally no hesitation working together to stop the bigger threat. Or imagine a scene where the villain succeeds with his master plan and even captures the party. Rather than just killing them, he might treat them as guests, or even turn a blind eye and let them escape, because he won this round but there's always next time. Remember that we cannot exist in a vacuum, and often the most important thing in our efforts is adversity, because we often define ourselves based on what we are challenged by/faced with.
I think what I'm getting at is that there should be a respect that both sides hold for one another, rather than hatred. Not some gay secret romance, but that in another life the villain could totally be best friends with the heroes, were it not for cruel fate flipping a coin on their alignments and motivations/goals.
>>45316633 Realistically, given that kind of villain, isn't that exactly what he'd want? Rather than having to try to kill the party or convince them to his side, or do anything that would require a lot of work, instead he just turns them complacent with friendly behavior and showering them with gifts.
>Make grand evil scheme of villainy >Don't even have to hide it or be subtle about it because the hero opposition have become too lazy and sloppy with their hero-ing since you never punish them >When things started out, they'd get as far as an epic battle at the big red button right before the countdown, nearly costing you your life >Now, they get stuck in the first dungeon to a non-lethal trap, or get caught by basic mook guards at a simple outpost, you treat them well once they're caught, and they just give up and go home
Eventually they wouldn't even bother, you could just send them gift baskets each time you enact an evil plan to keep them at home.
>>45316339 Time traveler goes back to the past to fix the future, succeeds, but it comes at a player character or important NPC's cost. Does this a lot, wears heavy gear, you're not sure whether it's the same person or not. The targets get no explanation and are seemingly picked at random unless the traveler is killed and his/her purpose revealed.
Remember, almost nobody sees themselves as the villain of their own story. You should also keep in mind that when something is edgy (in the 4chan sense, not the dictionary sense) it's usually trying too hard to push the envelope while not backing it up with any useful substance. If you avoid being excessively offensive for it's own sake, avoiding the edge will mostly take care of itself.
>guy stands by while his boss rapes you >break into his house in the middle of the night and tie him and his wife up >beat his daughter to death in front of him and then crucify her corpse in the living room >smash his infant son against the floor in front of him until it dies, then stuff it inside his daughter's body >shoot his wife in the throat so she suffocates in her own blood >finally beat him to death an hour later
Get the 'I can do no wrong but if someone does something wrong to me I'll make them go through Hell' mentality going.
>>45316339 No admirable goal. He might hide behind some idealogy, but in the end he's simply in for the power. He's also got the sex appeal of dead fish, is boring to talk to, is of mediocre intellect, and has shit taste when it comes to art, women and literature.
>Bad guys trying to do thing >Your group is told thing is bad >Try to stop them but they are steadily accomplishing thing >Stop them eventually >You find out thing is actually good >Finish what bad guys started >True bad guy is the one who initially told you thing is bad
Remember that villains tend to be people too and thus have loved ones and people they care about.Be it their best friend who is their right had, a doting mother whom he keeps tucked away in a comfortable cottage away from his schemes so she's less likely to be hurt, maybe the other people in his employ or a love interest.
>>45316339 >how i can create a good villain without being edgy? >without being edgy?
Edgy has lost most of its meaning and now just most comes down to "things I do not like". Because of that your goal is almost impossible because there is a good chance that someone at your table will find something about your villain unlikable to a degree that they may call it edgy. With a very high level of justification you can get around that a little bit, but that cause the question of how can the players and the villain both be highly justified and in direct active conflict.
In general terms, make the villain the hero of his/her story. Give him valid reasons to hate what the heroes stand for. And make him able to turn others to his cause, this is a mark of a true powerful villain, in my mind. Imagine that if the villain wins, the moral compass will be adjustes to his personal compass. Read about the childhood of Hitler or any kind of historical figure you consider "evil".
>>45316339 My character'somehow primary enemy was about as stereotypical villain as you could get.
I loved it. He once had me manacled to a chair, hands and feet bound, and offered me a glass of wine while sitting across from me. Then he realized I couldn't take it, and rescinded the offer. When I managed to magic myself out of the bindings, he proffered the glass to me again.
In the end one of my specific spells created a backlash of his spell of the same type (memory theft type thing), and his soul/mind wound up trapped inside my own.
>>45316339 Dont demonize him. Instead of making him the archetypical bad guy, give him the mannerisms of the archetypical good guy. Have him be fun loving, and know all his minions by by name as well as know their familes and aspirations. Have him show pitty on the heroes, maybe even spare them if he gets the upperhand in an ecounter. Have him have his own set of morals, maybe he despises rapists and marauders and goes out of his way to weed them out of his ranks (or maybe have him call out the party if they end up being murderhobos).
>>45316339 You give up, because people have different ideas of what constitutes "edgy" and literally ANYTHING will fall under someone's definition of the term. This includes non-edgy villains, because there are people who consider having evil not be edgy to be a sign of you, the DM, being edgy.
>>45316339 Give them flaws. Uncontrollable rage that looks more like a petty temper-tantrum rather than a berserk fury. Myopic focus on those who slight them. Narcissism. Massive blind-spots in their areas of expertise, etc. Also, avoid giving them *too* distinctive of a fighting style if they're the fighting type. If he's a Sith, give him one regular-ass Lightsaber, not two tonfa lightsabers and knee-sabers and a head-butt-saber-just-in-case. It's okay if he fights in a way that's a little unusual or dangerous, just don't take it too far in the name of being unique.
I define edge as gratuitous evil without a grounded source played for the purpose of eliciting disgust, shock, or anger.
Things that are "edgy" are purposefully dark and needlessly offensive, and have no self awareness about their own evil.
Consider the average "burn the village, rape the people, burn the people, then kill and rape the ashes" villain we roll our eyes at. Usually when it's "that guy" the character motivation is flimsy, the action is abrupt and sudden, and there is no gravity to the action because the character acts like everything is normal.
Now consider the Purple Man from Jessica Jones. He's a reprehensible monster to be sure, a rapist, a casual murderer, a man who without second thought rips away free will. But he is generally accepted as a well written villain despite the fact that on paper he sounds like just about the edgiest fuck ever. It's because he is written such that the audience first understands the real human consequences of his actions, and also understands why he does them.
Without these vital character pieces we get the hideous cardboard cutout illustration of gore fucking turbofaggotry that is the "edgy" character.
So you know, just fucking make a character that's logically constructed and doesn't "feel" pointless.
>>45323105 Sadly this. There are countless examples of people in real life who committed atrocities for no good reason and enjoyed doing horrible shit for the heck of it but we expect a little bit more sense out of fiction that we do from real life.
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