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how i can create a good villain without being...
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how i can create a good villain without being edgy?
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>>45316339
Give the villain a reason for the bad things they do. Make it so they feel justified, especially if it's a moral justification.
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>>45316339
If you have to ask, there's probably little hope for you.
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Make him repulsed by the mere sight of blood while casually ordening the deaths of thousands of prisoners.
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>>45316339
Put some effort into it
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>>45316359
rude
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>>45316339
Above all else, the character doesn't think themselves evil. No one historically ever got far by going on the platform of "look how evil I am"

They promise their underlings a better future and motivate them with promises that reasonable people in the right scenario will follow.

Basically you have to give them good motivation, even if its a little bit skewed.
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>>45316339
>>45316412
>The KKK
Thought they were protecting their heritage and families from external forces

>Nazis
Believed they were restoring their country after an unfair treaty

>North Korea
Soldiers are convinced that the US is trying to kill them, the Un family is just greedy

>ISIS
They believe they are following the orders of a righteous god and everyone else is decadent and sinful
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>>45316339

Some good advice so far, but if you followed that and you're really afraid your guy is edgy after all, just play him a bit more tongue-in-cheek and you're good -- he'll stop being edgy and start being metal.

Because the main difference between edgy and metal is that the former demands to be taken 100% seriously, while the latter still has a sense of humor.
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>>45316444
Trips speak the truth
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A SENSE OF HUMOR

S
E
N
S
E

O
F

H
U
M
O
R
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>>45316436
>Make America Great Again!
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>>45316339

Villain of circumstance. Have them pursue understandable goals for a good reason that's just mutually exclusive to the goals of the players.

Bonus points if you give the villain a line he won't cross, but make the players cross to kill them - and no cheap-shots like babysuit.
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>Villains fighting for good goals with good intentions, but refuse to admit what they're doing is making everything worse
>Villain who uses deeply morally questionable means to attain his good goals, doesn't wanna be evil, has some redeeming features, or even a reason outside their control for doing evil
>Selfish as fuck villains, they do evil shit because it helps numero uno. Their goal is usually evil (everything from taking your lunch money to pillaging a city they couldn't pay protection money) and they'll be cruel without a second thought.
>Villains who revel in evil for the sake of being cunts. Normally mentally ill. Cannibals, sadists, harming children for fun, etc.
>Evil. No redeeming features at all, pain & suffering gets them off.
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>>45316366
Petty villains are great

>she's wearing the same dress as me, let the entire palace guard rape her
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>>45316548
Pure evil villains like that are incredibly boring.
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>>45316339
Stop caring about buzzwords such as "edgy".
Simply do what you want.
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>>45316558
this fampai
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A villain that thinks of the heroes almost as friends. Or at least as friendly rivals rather than outright threats. Like he's setting up his latest scheme, and he's thrilled to hear that the party are the ones who will be opposing him, since they always make things such fun.

Basically there should not be a hatred between either side. Imagine a situation where a greater evil emerges, the villain and the heroes should have no problem, and ideally no hesitation working together to stop the bigger threat. Or imagine a scene where the villain succeeds with his master plan and even captures the party. Rather than just killing them, he might treat them as guests, or even turn a blind eye and let them escape, because he won this round but there's always next time. Remember that we cannot exist in a vacuum, and often the most important thing in our efforts is adversity, because we often define ourselves based on what we are challenged by/faced with.

I think what I'm getting at is that there should be a respect that both sides hold for one another, rather than hatred. Not some gay secret romance, but that in another life the villain could totally be best friends with the heroes, were it not for cruel fate flipping a coin on their alignments and motivations/goals.
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>>45316616
If the party realizes that they will get far too comfortable with messing up.
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>>45316633
So be a little harsh on punishing them now and again maybe.

Also the villain is still a villain. They should not want to let the villain win because the outcome will be obviously bad.
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There are no villains. Only powerful individuals with opposing ideologies.
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>>45316633
Realistically, given that kind of villain, isn't that exactly what he'd want? Rather than having to try to kill the party or convince them to his side, or do anything that would require a lot of work, instead he just turns them complacent with friendly behavior and showering them with gifts.

>Make grand evil scheme of villainy
>Don't even have to hide it or be subtle about it because the hero opposition have become too lazy and sloppy with their hero-ing since you never punish them
>When things started out, they'd get as far as an epic battle at the big red button right before the countdown, nearly costing you your life
>Now, they get stuck in the first dungeon to a non-lethal trap, or get caught by basic mook guards at a simple outpost, you treat them well once they're caught, and they just give up and go home

Eventually they wouldn't even bother, you could just send them gift baskets each time you enact an evil plan to keep them at home.
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>>45316339
Time traveler goes back to the past to fix the future, succeeds, but it comes at a player character or important NPC's cost.
Does this a lot, wears heavy gear, you're not sure whether it's the same person or not.
The targets get no explanation and are seemingly picked at random unless the traveler is killed and his/her purpose revealed.
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>>45316558

You just have shit taste
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>>45316339
Don't design the villain to do 'bad' or 'evil' things; design them to oppose the protagonist, be it in ideology or overall mission.
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>>45316558
I didn't say pure evil, I said petty

You're delusional if you don't think loads of people are and were just cruel fucks
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>>45316339
i dont understand that picture
the only edgy thing there is the razor and a bongs not so much edgy as immature.
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First you get rid of the concept of villain and replace it with antagonist, moral realism is retarded.
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>>45316862
>gang rape somebody for wearing the same dress as you
>not pure evil

Of course those sorts of people exist. They are just boring antagonists.
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>>45316339


Gonna go with this.>>45316436

Remember, almost nobody sees themselves as the villain of their own story. You should also keep in mind that when something is edgy (in the 4chan sense, not the dictionary sense) it's usually trying too hard to push the envelope while not backing it up with any useful substance. If you avoid being excessively offensive for it's own sake, avoiding the edge will mostly take care of itself.
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>>45316339
Two words:
Elf Hitler.
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>>45317044
A British businessman was once brutally killed by a samurai for refusing to bow when he passed by.

Was the samurai "pure evil"?
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>guy stands by while his boss rapes you
>break into his house in the middle of the night and tie him and his wife up
>beat his daughter to death in front of him and then crucify her corpse in the living room
>smash his infant son against the floor in front of him until it dies, then stuff it inside his daughter's body
>shoot his wife in the throat so she suffocates in her own blood
>finally beat him to death an hour later

Get the 'I can do no wrong but if someone does something wrong to me I'll make them go through Hell' mentality going.
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>>45317137

Did it feel satisfying to write out all that detail, you edgy fuck?
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>>45316339
No admirable goal. He might hide behind some idealogy, but in the end he's simply in for the power. He's also got the sex appeal of dead fish, is boring to talk to, is of mediocre intellect, and has shit taste when it comes to art, women and literature.
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>>45316548
More like
>Let the entire football team rape her
because people who have palace guards tend to invite people who have personal tailors.
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>>45316339
villain is a good guy with good intentions but is in some way dumb, does ask for help or to explain because of petty things like pride or maybe he's just retarded in some way.
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>>45316339
villain does not see others as persons with feelings, he uses them as tools, means to a goal. Your typical sociopath. Thinks of himself as a merchant / businessman
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>>45316339
Good villains are usually not edgy
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>>45317161
Not as satisfying as playing it in 100x more detail.
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>>45316339
Why not have an edgy villain that is tons of fun because there are no limits? The best part is that you can keep resurrecting the edgelord with edge just to kill him in new edgy ways.

This edge will reach so far that it will go all the way around to the other end and become not edgy due to a conceptual backstab.
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Amoral villains that are just following their nature.
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Edgy is just a buzzword, you make a good villain by not worrying about what some dumbfuck will say about him to belittle your work.
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>>45316493
Having your villain throw out a couple epic quips can really humanize them!
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>>45316339

you take a basic human being and give him a lot of power and a reason to be paranoid

shit will go from casual to auschwitz in 5 min
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>Bad guys trying to do thing
>Your group is told thing is bad
>Try to stop them but they are steadily accomplishing thing
>Stop them eventually
>You find out thing is actually good
>Finish what bad guys started
>True bad guy is the one who initially told you thing is bad
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Be less insecure.
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>>45316339
reminder that a bit of edge can be good for a villian, you just need to not go overboard.
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Remember that villains tend to be people too and thus have loved ones and people they care about.Be it their best friend who is their right had, a doting mother whom he keeps tucked away in a comfortable cottage away from his schemes so she's less likely to be hurt, maybe the other people in his employ or a love interest.
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>>45316339
>how i can create a good villain without being edgy?
>without being edgy?

Edgy has lost most of its meaning and now just most comes down to "things I do not like". Because of that your goal is almost impossible because there is a good chance that someone at your table will find something about your villain unlikable to a degree that they may call it edgy. With a very high level of justification you can get around that a little bit, but that cause the question of how can the players and the villain both be highly justified and in direct active conflict.
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>>45317126
Yes. Around yellows, never relax.

In general terms, make the villain the hero of his/her story. Give him valid reasons to hate what the heroes stand for. And make him able to turn others to his cause, this is a mark of a true powerful villain, in my mind. Imagine that if the villain wins, the moral compass will be adjustes to his personal compass. Read about the childhood of Hitler or any kind of historical figure you consider "evil".
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>>45316339
If it's a good villain, people won't feel the need to apply a meme to it.
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>>45317126
>Was the samurai "pure evil"?
Nah, he was just a samurai. Warrior classes tend to degenerate into delusional retards around the time they become useless.
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>>45316339
My character'somehow primary enemy was about as stereotypical villain as you could get.

I loved it.
He once had me manacled to a chair, hands and feet bound, and offered me a glass of wine while sitting across from me. Then he realized I couldn't take it, and rescinded the offer.
When I managed to magic myself out of the bindings, he proffered the glass to me again.

In the end one of my specific spells created a backlash of his spell of the same type (memory theft type thing), and his soul/mind wound up trapped inside my own.
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>>45322945
>character'somehow
Sometimes autocorrect amuses me.
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>>45316339
Dont demonize him. Instead of making him the archetypical bad guy, give him the mannerisms of the archetypical good guy. Have him be fun loving, and know all his minions by by name as well as know their familes and aspirations. Have him show pitty on the heroes, maybe even spare them if he gets the upperhand in an ecounter. Have him have his own set of morals, maybe he despises rapists and marauders and goes out of his way to weed them out of his ranks (or maybe have him call out the party if they end up being murderhobos).
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>>45316339
You give up, because people have different ideas of what constitutes "edgy" and literally ANYTHING will fall under someone's definition of the term. This includes non-edgy villains, because there are people who consider having evil not be edgy to be a sign of you, the DM, being edgy.
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>>45316339
Give them flaws. Uncontrollable rage that looks more like a petty temper-tantrum rather than a berserk fury. Myopic focus on those who slight them. Narcissism. Massive blind-spots in their areas of expertise, etc.
Also, avoid giving them *too* distinctive of a fighting style if they're the fighting type. If he's a Sith, give him one regular-ass Lightsaber, not two tonfa lightsabers and knee-sabers and a head-butt-saber-just-in-case. It's okay if he fights in a way that's a little unusual or dangerous, just don't take it too far in the name of being unique.
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>>45317098
Adelf Itlar, if you will.
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I define edge as gratuitous evil without a grounded source played for the purpose of eliciting disgust, shock, or anger.

Things that are "edgy" are purposefully dark and needlessly offensive, and have no self awareness about their own evil.

Consider the average "burn the village, rape the people, burn the people, then kill and rape the ashes" villain we roll our eyes at. Usually when it's "that guy" the character motivation is flimsy, the action is abrupt and sudden, and there is no gravity to the action because the character acts like everything is normal.

Now consider the Purple Man from Jessica Jones. He's a reprehensible monster to be sure, a rapist, a casual murderer, a man who without second thought rips away free will. But he is generally accepted as a well written villain despite the fact that on paper he sounds like just about the edgiest fuck ever. It's because he is written such that the audience first understands the real human consequences of his actions, and also understands why he does them.

Without these vital character pieces we get the hideous cardboard cutout illustration of gore fucking turbofaggotry that is the "edgy" character.

So you know, just fucking make a character that's logically constructed and doesn't "feel" pointless.
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>>45317098
>>45323101
We must secure the existence of our people and a future for elf children.
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>>45323105
Keep in mind that this is what edgy means on the internet, not the dictionary definition. The conventional meaning of the word is a compliment not an insult.
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>>45323105
Sadly this. There are countless examples of people in real life who committed atrocities for no good reason and enjoyed doing horrible shit for the heck of it but we expect a little bit more sense out of fiction that we do from real life.
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>>45317172
Pic unrelated.
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