>>45299920 >Basically, the Tau are set up for an incredibly cruel punchline. But anon, all the factions are already stuck in the 40k universe. Calling "trapped in a crappy setting" a punchline is a little much after this many years.
Yeah, but the Tau aren't aware of it. They don't know the true nature of the universe.
It's like...I'm trying to think of the most cruel example I can imagine here. Let's say you're a black activist who regularly pushes for racial equality. I mean, we're all human no matter what our skin color is, right?
Then one day, you see a white guy get hit by a car. It's messy. Then the severed halves of his body pull themselves together, and he picks up the car with one hand and moves it away. While you're staring in disbelief, he goes:
> "Oh, you saw me. Sorry, it's supposed to be a secret: All white folk have superpowers. We were keeping it from you so you guys didn't feel bad. Pretend it didn't happen, all right?"
The Tau lack some pretty crucial information about the galaxy at large, but their plan isn't actually a bad one.
The various races that make up the Tau Empire are MUCH stronger banding together than they ever would be left to their own devices. Individually, the Imperium could push them around effortlessly. Together, they can survive small crusades and even push into Imperium territory. And we are given to understand that while life under their rule isn't exactly utopia, its still a massive step up in terms of quality of life for human defectors for everyone who wasn't part of the Imperium's top 1%.
And, truth be told, there are a lot of galaxy-wide problems that would be a lot easier to deal with if the various galactic powers actually worked together to stop them. Half the reason that orks get to be such a problem is because no one cares about them beyond protecting their piece of the pie, so any ork war party that gets rebuffed by a system's defenses is allowed to flee and gather their strength in someone else's backyard. Which inevitably comes back and bites everyone int he ass again. Chaos, the Nids, and the Necrons are all galaxy wide threats that the Tau, Eldar and Imperium should be fighting together, because thats a "if they win we all lose" scenerio.
The problem is that the Tau have no idea just how big the Imperium really is. They know it is bigger than they are, but they have not fully grasped the full scope of it. Likewise, their ignorance of warp stuff means that they are ill equipped to fight Chaos, which is ironic because they would actually be really good at fighting Chaos (not as easily corrupted as humans or as tasty as Eldar) if only they knew what the fuck they were doing.
No one else is even TRYING to unite the races that are not batshit crazy to fight the real problems, because the Imperium is irrationally xenophobic and the Eldar are terminally cryptic. I don't think they will succeed, but they are right to try.
>>45299722 The Tau with their "Greater Good" is the Equivalent of the Feminist Movement.
>>45299901 This guy pretty much hit the nail on the head with this post. That third one though, with the Feminist agenda in mind, is wrong because they would focus on a "Man" doing his part for Women kind in the collective to make society stable. Think that whole "He for She" Crap Emma was speaking for.
And that last one well, we've seen how most of them these days lump all men together with their hate of all things phallic.
>>45300165 >That third one though, with the Feminist agenda in mind, is wrong because they would focus on a "Man" doing his part for Women kind in the collective to make society stable. Think that whole "He for She" Crap Emma was speaking for.
>And that last one well, we've seen how most of them these days lump all men together with their hate of all things phallic.
That has nothing to do with the post or the thread, please don't bait.
>>45300079 > their xenophobia is perfectly legitimate
Nope. Because the Imperium showed that it is so far gone that it even demands the extermination of proven, explicitly helpful aliens. And I don't mean the Tau.
The provided excuse for the xenophobia of the IoM is that DAOT Humanity had a bunch of alien allies, but when the Iron Men revolted and the Human Empire came crashing down some of those allies took advantage of the situation to gobble up parts of the human empire when they were weak instead of helping them fight back against the machine. Which is certainly a dick fucking move, but the key word there is "some". Not "all".
So the Imperium adopts a policy of 'trust not the xenos' and shit, because they were still realy salty about that betrayal.
The problem is that, during the Great Crusade, they came across the Interex. The Interex were a small federation of humans and aliens that still had a fair amount of their DAOT tech advantage left, in large part because when everything came crashing down their alien neighbors protected them and helped them rebuild, honoring their alliances with the human empire.
But the Imperium of Man was so insanely assblasted about Xenos that they demanded that the humans not only submit to the Emperor, but turn on the aliens that had literally done nothing but help them and be huge bros for thousands of years. The Human members of the Interex refused, and chose to die fighting alongside their alien allies than submit to Imperial rule. In the process, the Imperium lost access to priceless technology much better than anything they have realistically had a chance to get their hands on before or since.
The Imperium is SO FUCKING MAD about Xenos because of a specific betrayal that they even kill xenos that they have irrefutable proof did not betray them, at the cost of killing planets full of humans AND at the cost of desperately needed archeotech.
No, they're almost painfully right. But the truth is, they're right, in the wrong setting. This is the kind of setting where madness, zealotry, ignorance, and near-genocidal intolerance render you more capable of surviving, and even prospering given time.
But I still like the Tau for what they do, despite this. What's really funny is that their empire would be antagonistic in a setting that was less fucking nuts.
>>45300240 > But the truth is, they're right, in the wrong setting. This is the kind of setting where madness, zealotry, ignorance, and near-genocidal intolerance render you more capable of surviving, and even prospering given time.
The problem is that isn't ACTUALLY true, that's just what the Imperial Creed has convinced humans of.
Its a pretty big red flag that all of the actions that the Imperium has taken to 'prevent the spread of Chaos' has made their society the most perfect target for Chaos cults that anyone could ever ask for. It is absurdly easy to corrupt Imperial worlds to Chaos, because they don't know Chaos exists, their quality of life is dogshit so a promise of something better is a really attractive offer that they don't realize is poison until it is too late, and all you have to do is call the Chaos Gods 'Imperial Saints' for the first couple years to get the ball rolling because everyone int he Imperium is indoctrinated not to ask questions or think for themselves, so they fall into line behind whoever has a big hate no matter if it is painted with blood. The Imperium, in order to keep its rule, tells its people to be easily led sheep. And Chaos takes advantage of that, because easily led sheep don't know the difference between one master or another.
And the Ignorance of the Imperium is fucking killing them. The AdMech was the worst deal the Emperor ever signed. In return for not having to deal with the 50 years it would have taken ti whip Mars into shape at the start of the Great Crusade, he doomed the human race to 20,000 years of technological stagnation.
Not being retards about Chaos and Technology would actually give the Imperium a fighting chance of surviving the various threats piling up on their door. But humanity under the IoM doesn't deserve to survive. They made their bed, slept in it, and are currently refusing to leave it even as the house burns down around them.
>>45300131 It really sounds like a tacky stormfronter movie trailer.
>In a world that already fears and hates them, Black people have super-powers >Only one man can save them all. >Noterious KKK play >"When everything goes black" >Swings by moonmans face >"He's the light to shine up the nigght." Gunshots and screaming Moonman: The movie. "Coming to southern states near you, nigger."
>>45300435 Look, is the opposite really better? Blind faith at least means they won't know they can go to a different option. Would you rather have the Imperium let everyone know there's an option for anyone who doesn't like how the Imperium does things, so that anyone who rebels against Imperial rule can immediately turn to Chaos instead of just being regular going-against-the-Imperium heretics?
And do you really think Terra, just after the Unification Wars, with Space Marine Legions that weren't yet at full strength, didn't have their primarchs, and didn't have the equipment to build a fleet or take on Titan Legions and Skitarii and whatever other scary bullshit the Martians could pull out of their vaults, could really have just whipped the Admech into shape in 50 years? Maybe the Emperor was hoping to fix the Admech in the long term, uniting the Imperial Truth with the Admech's ideas of the Machine Cult.
On one hand you're decrying the Imperium wanting to exterminate any Xenos that disagrees with them or scares them enough, and on the other hand you're complaining about the one time they use diplomacy and make an alliance.
>join the Greater Good, where we are all equal and will protect each other >if you don't we will force you by military and economic means backed with really nice propaganda and secret police shit >we also have no idea about the galaxy at all, only our plot armor is keeping us away from full scale Daemonic incursions due to unchecked psyker races and AI They are wrong
>>45300205 >faggots are still quoting the Interex We know fuck all about it. They knew fuck all about Chaos and known like 2 xeno species. They were an interesting plot device on how to get Erebus his fancy dagger. That was all. If they were important or significant in any way, we wouldn't just get a measly 2 sentence explanation in one of the next books on how they were all exterminated. Xenos can't be trusted in 40k. It's not worth taking the risk if 99% of aliens are actively trying to kill or enslave you and 0,9% of aliens are just waiting for you to fuck up badly to kill or enslave you.
>>45300010 I mean, it's more like every faction that is big enough to matter has so many other more important problems to deal with like the Imperium has other Ork waaaughs, DEldar raids, Eldar fuckery, Chaos incursions, pacifying rebellious systems, searching out internal corruption, etc. etc. etc.
Eldar have population problems as well as the whole "Slaanesh thing" that prevents them from really doing much. Also they're elitist pricks who don't view the Imperium as anything worth helping. Let's not forget that they don't necessarily work well with each other even between craft-worlds, much less maiden worlds and Comorragh. They're even less united than Humanity, except for when necessity forces them together + the Harlequin which are more about unifying them culturally than politically.
DEldar don't give a fuck and would prefer to see more chaos and disorder to take advantage of.
Necrons ARE doing this slowly in a sense, except they view every other race as part of the same problem.
Tau, by virtue of their size and location are saved from many of the problems facing the other races and don't seem to be able to grasp the sheer size of the galaxy or the job before them.
Lol, do you forget that the Imperium was not immediately hostile and that Horus was considering making an allowance for them before he got Chaos tainted?
Also, HH shits over everything.
I think that the Tau aren't that bad as far as factions go. But I also think a lot of the hate comes from people wanting them to be the new good-guys and have this idealistic moral solution that just can't work because of the big bad Imperium.
I would personally like to see them continue to grow as the "Alien hegemony" faction, but it's been handled clumsily by GW and the fans are fucking cancer.
>>45300165 I hate feminism much more than the next guy, but this is pushing it. The Tau are just hardline socialists with a morally-justified world view. They legitimately believe what they're doing is good, whether it is or not. They believe in forcing universal cooperation, at gunpoint if necessary. They don't want forced equality of outcome, everyone has their own contribution they can make to the Greater Good.
>>45299998 >mfw I only have Level 3 White Man powers >mfw I can't fly like all my friends >mfw can't punch like a freight train >mfw can only move objects by thought and influence people through telepathic manipulation
>>45304466 its pretty impossible actually the imperium comes in many a varied adeptas and components, and just about all of them specialise in how different their ignorance and stupidity is in the galaxy
"hurr well im so incompetant I lost the files on an entire subsector" "nuh-uh, Im more imcompetant because I put fucking holy oils into all the stc data slates and corrupted a buncha them" "yeah, well I commit exterminatus on worlds with khornate cults and dont understand why they seem to like me"
>>45306289 I play tau, and I don't really agree with that. Suits? Sure, they are pretty cool. Infantry? Yeah, but I wish the pathfinders and fire-warriors looked a little more distinguished from each other. And that Vespids got a updated kit. Vehicles? The devilfish and hammerheads have grown on me, but the non-forge world flyers look retarded, to say the least.
>>45307201 I'm going to assume you know a bit about the 40k universe and lore. (The warp, how badly everthing is fucked, etc.)
1. The Tau have little to no warp presence, have no psykers within their race, and have no understanding of the warp or what lies within it. 2. They are a relatively new faction that emerged very recently, and seemingly out of nowhere. 3. They are open to the idea of other races helping each other out and bringing a higher level of living with in the fucked up universe that is 40k, and actively recruit/coerce/force new xenos races to join them. "For the Greater Good" 4. That comes with an asterisk however, the Tau are the top dogs on that xenos pile. Period. 5. Their government system is something akin to the Indian Caste system and the Orwellian Nightmare rolled into one. That being said they are the least grimdark faction in the 40k lore. (Debatable) 6. They have no FTL travel capabilites due to not understanding/knowing the warp. There for their entire empire is a slowly expanding but steady conquest. (Damoles Crusades) 7. While not having psykers or warp stuff, they make up for it in Technology. Way better stuff than what the Imperial forces have by and large, and possibly bordering on Eldar tech. 8. A certain commander of the Tau realized he was living in the Orwellian Nightmare and decided to disobey orders to go fuck up some Orks, causing the Tau to declare him a traitor. (Farsight Enclaves)
That's everything in a nutshell. For more info I'd recommend the 1d4chan page on them, it's generally up to date on fluff, but in a /tg/ style.
>>45300497 Good in theory but bad in practice is literally one of the dumbest things a person can say. If something doesn't work in practice then the theory is necessarily flawed.
Communism sounds good when someone who thinks it's a good idea explains it to you and you don't think to hard about it. But the economical aspects of it have been completely disproven by the likes of Hayek and Friedman, and the ideology and philosophy behind it was absolutely destroyed by Popper in The Open Society and Its Enemies.
>>45307520 > and have no understanding of the warp or what lies within it. i thought the ethereals did but kept it secret which caused farsight to defect ? >2. They are a relatively new faction that emerged very recently, and seemingly out of nowhere. they where kept safe from destruction by a warpstorm for 8000 years when they emerged they had advanced from caveman in loincloth tier to more advanced than the empire under the ethereals which united the castes (hinted by mindcontroll)
Not in a meaningful manner. There's a blurb about them developing drives faster than their "goes 99.9bar% of light speed" between last sphere expansion and this one. It still doesn't put to rest the fact that they couldn't reach the edges of their space in the time they've been a spacefaring race, let alone conquered and administrated it.
>>45307636 The Ethereals, to my knowledge, may have some idea as to what the warp is, but are not telling anyone if they are. My understanding of the mess that got Farsight declared a traitor was that his army's Ethereal died and when the haze of pheromones cleared he decided to not send for another one/go fight orks on 'his' planets for a while instead of what the Tau command were telling him to do.
>>45307578 They have a micro-ftl capable drive. Their drive works like a skipping stone in that it bounces along the boundary of real/chaos. They can hop short distances (I think 10s of light years) so inside tau space they have set up waystations and run a system more akin to the earlier horse postal systems. The Kroot may or may not have better capabilities or could emerge the ability to become navigators. They are friendly or have added to the fold an alien race that has navigator powers but they're more like drifting nomads and can't pull in ships larger than what they build themselves so aren't really useful for larger cargo ships and military ships that would be needed.
They just deleted any mention of FTL or no FTL in the last codex. Because writers cannot into scale or science. The only thing left from the previous codex is the name of their drive: ZFR Horizon Accelerator Engine.
>>45307201 They're a young, dynamic race that's achieved astounding technological advancement in a short time, are both diplomats and warriors, and are generally portrayed as being better run and more idealistic than the more established races.
Or, in other words, they're every other Space Opera/Science Fantasy series' depiction of Humanity. Which makes the hate they receive absolutely fucking hilarious
>>45307730 got this of the wiki " During the battle against these unholy fiends, Farsight gets a glimpse through a Warp rift and sees a vision of the Eye of Terror. In the process, he realises the dire threat that looms over all sentient life – the ancient evils of Chaos. O’Shovah cannot believe that the Ethereals would keep their knowledge of such a terrible threat a secret, but the evidence seems clear. The revelations shake him to his core."
>>45307983 i think the hate stems from them being introduced after the setting was established as grimdark everyone who prefers playing as the "good guys" suddenly had to deal with the fact that their grey faction suddenly turned pitch black compared to the tau
>The Ethereals hide Chaos from the general population. Even their most exalted and trusted warrior champions. >Exaltation for science and progress, hates religions, superstition, ignorance and fear. >Join us or die expansionist policies.
>>45308108 What grey factions? Seriously, the Imperium is straight up Fascism, and was so even before the Emperor was interred on the Golden Throne, Orks are sadistic murders who are only funny because you aren't actually there, the Eldar may or may not feel some regret at killing you and millions of your friends to possibly save one of their own, but they'll still do it, the Dark Eldar are Dark Eldar, 'Nids are animals and don't really fit into a moral framework, Chaos is everything shitty about the human psyche made manifest and 'Crons are either zombie death robots, or ancient imperialists who want to steal your body with zombie death robot backup.
There are no good guys in 40K, there never have been and anyone who thinks there are is rather missing the point.
>>45308323 >there are no good guys in 40k agreed that's why i said grey
i'm not that into necron fluff but i'dd say them and deldar are the only evil factions and even then that's just my interpretation the others are grey ,i'm including chaos because they're actual fucking gods and in this setting might makes right and because if you're part of their club they aren't all that bad which is the best you can say for every other faction as well they just had a bit of a pr disaster with the whole horus heresy thing
With their current ideology, they aren't right. But they are the least wrong. And if they take over the galaxy, and could suppress or otherwise deal with Chaos, they'd have the best chance of being the guys who slowly become more liberal and reasonable and less space communists.
>>45299999 People always complain the Tau are communistic. But that communism is still WAY FUCKING BETTER than a shitty theocratic shithole keeping the mass amount of people in the dark while killing xenos just because they're xenos.
While the Tau are the ONLY race in the ENTIRE GALAXY to conquer a planet and give the citizens of the planet their rights as long as they accept the Greater Good and fight for their cause. Humanity will conquer a xeno planet and kill men, women, and children because they are not like them.
Commander Brightsword was assassinated by the Last Chancers thanks to the help of a Water Caste member. Reason: The other Tau thought that Brightswords tactics were TOO CRUEL against the HUMANS.
Too bad the Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tyranids, Necrons, Chaos daemons/followers, Orks and the Imperium don't want that same kind of unity.
The Tau won't survive against any of them. The Imperium is the bulwark against the overwhelming threats that plague the civilized races of the galaxy. GW writing will keep the Tau afloat so long as they sell but "realistically" (within the parameters of the 40K setting) they wouldn't last half as long against the full force of Tyranid invasion, a Chaos Black Crusade level event or if a bunch of awoken Necrons decided they wanted some Tau clay.
I honestly don't mind the Tau for their efforts. I've grown to like their armor style and would play them over Tyranids, Orks or Daemons any day because they actually have a society to fight for. But the Tau are doomed if the setting actually went End Times like Fantasy did.
>>45309575 no, because humans literally have a chance of bursting into fucking portals for daemons if they are psykers, there are literal terminator robots that want to harvest their flesh because they want to feel warm and fuzzy, space bugs that want to eat humans that make up most of the galaxy because they are popping by for a snack, and other myriad dangers that come from being a society that is constantly at war with the universe.
>>45309700 The Eldar favor the Tau over the Imperium because they view them as less impulsive and more inclined to reason due to their ideology. Many human worlds have joined the forces of the Greater Good. The necrons want to see their empire rise once again, as they were programmed from the days of old. And with that, they can be influenced to fight alongside the Tau for the right incentive. The nids want food, the orks want fights and the chaos want chaos, which all ideologically selfish reason.
>>45309992 -Some- Eldar might see the Tau as less of a threat than the Imperium, but only because the Tau occupy a much smaller area of space and haven't had as much time to muck around the galaxy as humanity. The Eldar are an incredibly proud and arrogant people and see the Tau as inexperienced children, more volatile and naive. While some humans join the Greater Good the vast majority remain under the flag of the Imperium. As for the Necrons... >Joining with the Tau Not likely. The Tau wouldn't survive if the 40K universe actually progressed.
>>45307520 >They have no FTL travel capabilites Actually they do, its just super slow. Apparently it works by "skimming the surface of the warp". However, they don't realize the true nature of the warp, and probably just think that the wading pool of the warp that they travel through is just some kind of higher dimension.
>>45308478 If it's grey it's a darker shade. the only reason the Imperium receives love is because they're badass, we're all humans and we side with other humans, and everyone loves Spess Mehreens memes.
In reality the fucking Imperium is viciously evil, ruthless, and really doesn't care much about its inhabitants. Certain individuals certainly do, and i'm not arguing that all humans in 40k are even, but the Imperium as an institution is fucking awful.
The reason people don't like Tau is because they don't want them to be 'good guys' because that would be a threat to the Imperium's status in canon/fanon. The Imperium is viewed by many as a "cruel-to-be-kind" government, and if the Tau come along and be "humanity in every sci-fi story ever" that's going to be an issue.
>>45310477 The reason every attempt at Communism has ended up as a totalitarian shithole is because that is what Communism is in theory and in practice. That is what you get if you apply the ideology consistently in the real world.
>>45299901 >That cooperation, compromise and negotiation should be used to secure allies who might otherwise be needlessly made into enemies through "shoot first" mentalities? No. Tau sympathizer detected. Please report to the nearest arbites officer for summary execution.
There are many flaws with allies in 40k and scifi in general. First off is the fact that true integration is impossible, Britain and France can be allies because at the end of the day they are both humans, even if France grows strong the British people won't be under threat of dying out, worst that happens is that the British interbreed with the French until they are assimilated. Tau and humans aren't compatible however, and thus the Tau getting stronger indirectly weakens humanity.
Beyond that there are two other essential flaws in this ideology, even if they may be more specific to 40k. First off the Tau have no end game that involves humanity, humans outnumber Tau millions if not billions to one. Unless the Tau want to try to keep humanity in line with a couple thousand fire warriors per hive world than the vast majority of human occupied space must be cleansed of humans. Second, humanity tried allies in the past before the birth of slaanesh and the men of iron shit humanity was fine with most xenos. However, the vast majority of those xenos took advantage of humanity when we were weakened, yes some xenos were actually cool, but they were a tiny minority, which the Tau would be unlikely to be a part of. Remember, the Kroot aren't even part of the Empire, they are mercenaries, Vespids are mind controlled by the Tau, and human allies to the Tau are still forced to rely on tactically inferior (even if infinitely better logistically) equipment to their Tau counterparts despite the claim that human auxiliaries are well respected by the Tau.
Put simply if a Tau and a human could fuck and have a kid and the Tau actually wanted to be equals than you would have a point, but neither are true.
>>45307438 >I have followed the myriad potential futures of the Tau with great interest. Though barely even striplings compared to us, I feel a strange protectiveness towards them. In time I believe they will exceed even our greatest feats and master the darkness within their souls.
>>45314248 >First off is the fact that true integration is impossible, Britain and France can be allies because at the end of the day they are both humans, even if France grows strong the British people won't be under threat of dying out, worst that happens is that the British interbreed with the French until they are assimilated.
That's like saying american natives and colonists can be allies because both are humans. Whether assimilated or killed, the former had their culture destroyed and replaced. It's no worse with the Tau, at least there will be no rape babies.
>>45315671 People are just trying to defend the Tau, when in reality they'd be a tyrannical empire in any other setting. And they'd probably get just as bad as the Imperium once/if they get sizeable or start having to deal with Chaos within the ranks.
They have it easy and they're just not-totally-unreasonable conquerors. Fuck the Tau.
>>45315726 They're Lawful Neutral to the Imperium's Lawful Evil.
You're a 'slave' in the Tau Empire because you have to get with the program? You're a slave in all but name in the Imperium on any number of planets where you're worked to death.
Question their rule? In the Tau Empire, you might get off with a warning, or be required to take some lessons over a few weeks to see if you improve. Imperium? Easier to shoot you and get someone less prone to thinking.
The Tau aren't perfect, and they have plenty of more sinister ways to disappear people who don't fall in line, but they have a much better average standard of living.
You won't be cannon fodder, you won't be slave labor, and you won't be tossed aside at the slightest sign of weakness. In the 41 Millenium, it's hard to find better.
The 7e Tau codex says that Imperium has suspected pheromones or prenatal compulsion or psychic powers to be used by Ethereals, but no proof of anything has surfaced even though they have successfully captured a few Ethereals.
The Imperium is not a bulwark, it is part of the problem. It is what Chaos Gods wanted to be born as the result of the Horus Heresy, and it also provides an easy meal for Tyranids as the Silent King has seen.
>>45317532 It is true. Kroot have served the Tau for centuries with unanimous success. The ideas that Tau sterilize or genocide their client species is nonsense fanwank. It is what the Imperium would do, but the Imperium set sail for fail the very moment Emperor decided to raise his ugly head from the Terran dumpster he belongs into.
Sterilisation is only used to humanely cull unsustainable populations on assimilated hive worlds and such. And even then the population groups that get the snip are going to be the ones that are the most troublesome and unreasonable.
The Tau aren't stupid enough to exterminate a loyal population they can use to raise billions of loyal soldiers and workers from.
Which is not to say that the Tau are super nice and perfect. All serve the Greater Good to the best of their abilities.
Nowhere in there is the world equality. The Ethereals do the telling. Everyone else gets told. Tau are given the best jobs but it's still a better deal than what the Imperium would give you.
>>45315814 I'd much rather be an average human citizen in the Tau Empire than I would the Imperium to be quite honest. The Tau aren't squeaky clean but they're as good as it gets for a human unless you're nobility in the Imperium.
>Ablobloo the tau forces me to work as the drone herder or quality supervisor in the factory instead of dying in the slums of the hive city doing fucking nothing. Or better yet those monsters might uplift me from this literal slaveworkshop into some functional megalopolis!
>>45315875 The bit about the Quran was clearly a joke.
And yes, socialism is inherently a piss-poor economic system. Just because people aren't suffering doesn't mean the system works, it's just delaying the inevitable by passing the bill to your children in all but the smallest economies and communities.
Fuck Trump, even if I wanted someone with his beliefs I wouldn't vote for him.
>>45318695 >And yes, socialism is inherently a piss-poor economic system. Just because people aren't suffering doesn't mean the system works, it's just delaying the inevitable by passing the bill to your children in all but the smallest economies and communities.
You discribed capitalism in it's neoliberal stage which reigns since the 80. . Socialism is quite the opposite, that's why it's fought with tooth and nail.
Isn't it already part of the established lore that this whole "equality and unity" is a deceiving meme for getting enemy worlds to surrender without resistance so that the Tau can slowly but surely erase the natives through mind control/causing infertility/secret concentration camps so that the Tau can colonize the planet.
Fits perfectly into the 40k universe. The only "justice" guys are liars.
>>45320216 >Isn't it already part of the established lore that this whole "equality and unity"
The Tau are upfront is saying that they are "First Among Equals".
Also the Tau do not erase the races that submit to them. In fact, they are looking to assimilate massive amounts of aliens into their empire to offset their manpower issues. This is the reason they are targetting Imperial hiveworlds and relocating portions of their potions to the Tau coreworlds.
>>45321306 I'm seriously curious about what Tau endgame would look like. Welcome to the Tau Empire, where humans outnumber everyone else 45748776864534254326523465746358634576554366666356165897658743656325863085643056238563286543856873265873456358736586435987326575863428759365 to 1.
>>45300435 Dude the demons really will burst from the warp and eat you and your world, the way the imperium is right now is the equal reaction to the very real situation the imperium is in.
Religious fanatics = bad when its all bullshit However not so much when that psyker really could doom your world, or being friends with xenos will more likely than not fuck if given enough time you because youre not them at the end of the day.
The fanaticism isnt some baseless cultural aspect of the imperium its a necessary defense at least for now.
>>45301438 Its a matter of understanding scale, even if only 1% of the time the xenos would fuck you over that scaled up to the size and numbers of the imperium would devastate it over time, especially considering how long it can take to even respond to threats they IoM need those stop gap measures.
>>45300205 >>45300435 You're getting a lot of flak for very logically sound ideas, so I just wanted to say that there are people in this thread who agree with you.
Also, all the fa/tg/uys with conservative leanings need to stop treating 40K like a validation of their real-life political beliefs. First off, it's a fucking game. Second, the plot was meant to be satirical by taking all the concepts it draws upon to their ultimate logical extremes. None of you would actually want to live in the Imperium if you had to be a servitor or Administratum drone instead of a fancy noble or Inquisitor.
>>45299999 Yes it is. Only people who praise communism are spoiled caviar-socialist who never lived under it. It never worked, and never will. Unless you will lobotomize entire population so everybody would be happy with begin equally poor.
>>45317644 >Kroot have served the Tau for centuries with unanimous success. One of their oldest military allies, never treated better then simple merc's, already lost favor with the introduction of Vespids, the mind controlled race.
>>45317878 >The Tau aren't stupid enough to exterminate a loyal population they can use to raise billions of loyal soldiers and workers from.
"The Poctroon are the first sentient race to join the empire, though within a few generations the unfortunate aliens have fallen to a terrible plague...the Tau are immune...inherit the aliens' now abandoned world as the prime planet of the Bork'an Sept.
>Nowhere in there is the world equality. This, more people need to realize that equality isn't part of the bargain with the Tau.
>>45321306 >This is the reason they are targetting Imperial hiveworlds and relocating portions of their potions to the Tau coreworlds.
Their expanding for one main reason, their systems are clustered closer together then what is normal for the rest of the galaxy. A supernovae, astral catastrophe, etc. would wipe them out, thus the underlying need to expand out.
>>45299999 Not really. It was just a fairly radical market policy, it had it's advantages and disadvantages. Heck it isn't even mutually exclusive with democracy. The real problem with it was external saboteurs, expensive wars, nepotism, oligarchism and the fact that Russia got massively fucked up by Germany and lost their industries in the war, not gaining GDP from WWII. As for China it's more just an excuse for dynastic nobility and totalitarianism.
It could work in a society, just would need a lot of safeguards, no enemies, a generally intelligent working class and a lot of entertainment.
Oh, so it's literally just a buzzword at this moment in time? The current "Social Justice Warriors" have been conquered by absolute retards. The Tau are not SJW at all, but instead an empire that uses its individual inhabitants to their strengths. The blue bastards aren't good at melee combat? Kroot will supplement that. The NEO-SQUATS are better than them at making technology? Use that for the betterment of the entire empire. It's literally strength through diversity and an actual acceptance of differences that doesn't try to muddle everything together.
>>45322045 >Also, all the fa/tg/uys with conservative leanings need to stop treating 40K like a validation of their real-life political beliefs How could this even be a thing? 40K is just Space Nazis, Space Huns, Space Zombies, Space Robot Zombies, Space Elves, Space Demons, and Space Chinese fucking each other up. If any part of the setting reminds you of any wide-spread conservative beliefs, it says less about those beliefs than it does about you.
Which faction do you think most accurately represents conservatism, just curious? Think carefully before you say the Imperium, a xenophobic, fascist theocracy. It may be similar to liberal strawmen of conservatives, but I challenge you to find anyone who isn't a Trumpling shitposter who legitimately believes Exterminatus has a few good points.
>>45324839 I mean, all societies fail eventually. But no, free market states, anarchies, and socialist democracies can prosper (in theory) with enemies. Although, I honestly can't think of a successful socialist democracy that has enemies in the same way that the Soviets had enemies.
>>45326326 They're more like the people who live in reality and apply facts to their decision-making, going by the absolute insanity of their sworn enemies. Nowadays, politically incorrect is the new politically correct, and its preachers are just as dogmatic as their propaganda accuses their enemies of being.
>>45326888 Because demanding that children be given the right to cut their own dicks off and scream "I'm a girl" be considered completely normal is what people who live in reality and apply facts to their decision making do right?
>>45326924 According to medical science, yes, acknowledging diagnosable physical disorders and treating them in ways proven to reduce a person's mental stress is an example of "living in reality and applying facts to their decision-making".
On the other hand, some people will deny what medical science learns either out of spite, or because of their very narrow and simple definitions of certain terms which they selected out of spite, disregarding the objective, practical reality of what's actually happening and how it actually affects people.
>>45327020 Medical science does not support the concept that because one believes they are not in the right body that they should be allowed to mutilate it to match the form in their head This is backed up by nearly 50% suicide rate of those who go through with the operation to "change sexes" If you think this is a suitable solution when so many take their lives due to stupid fucking crusaders of "equality" telling them it's the right thing to do then you do not live in our reality
>>45327109 Medical science has observed people's brain structures and found that some people's brains are of a gender that doesn't match their body, in objectively measurable ways.
This, if left untreated, is known to cause distress throughout a person's life.
Some people hate these facts and choose to crusade against them, considering it an act of war that they're true. And since some people are living proof of these "war facts", they are considered "warriors" for existing and constantly harassed. This same insanity then denies that harassment is even a thing, despite people literally dying from it, and people literally doing it specifically so that others die from it; they deal with this inconvenient fact by hating it and thinking of that as an adequate response.
It's not. Practically every faction to some extent or the other can have the first two bits of that post applied to them.
Humanity believes everyone should worship the God Emperor or die Chaos says everyone should worship chaos or die Orks say everyone should fight and die (or die) Really only the Eldar are the only ones I can see not giving a shit about the other races enough to try to force their own beliefs on them.
>>45327421 >Really only the Eldar are the only ones I can see not giving a shit about the other races enough to try to force their own beliefs on them. Eldar believe that everyone should get off their property or die.
>>45300435 >Its a pretty big red flag that all of the actions that the Imperium has taken to 'prevent the spread of Chaos' has made their society the most perfect target for Chaos cults that anyone could ever ask for.
The Imperium is in the business of justifying it's existence, Not protecting humanity.
The way it does this is through perpetual war and conflict. The whole Imperium is constructed in such a way as to make it noting but a farm for Chaos to reap.
Pic related, Everyone knows these are the most dangerous villains in the setting. Why else would they be mentioned in nearly ever piece of 40k fluff I have ever read? AND WHY THE FUCK COULDN'T GW HAVE GIVEN THEM A FUCKING ROCKET LAUNCHER!
Eh that one's a bit more iffy since they aren't exactly invading their old worlds and killing people for inhabiting them they are just pissy about it and do occasional raids to keep people from sacred spots.
It's no where near daily life in the Imperium though.
The Eldar arent Elves in Space. Well, they are, but not just that. They're also The Fair Folk in space, and incredibly dangerous. Even if they "favor" you.
Maybe the Eldar decide to "help" the Tau by directing a Black Crusade into the heart of Tau space, or opening a temporary terror in the warp that allows forces of the ruinious powers to pour out. After all, the young Tau they favor need to learn of the warp, its dangers, and how to combat it.
Sure, your civilization is smashed, with trillions dying or worse, and entire worlds burning. But it really is help. The imperium thinks you're destroyed and forgets about you. The lifeless worlds deter a passing hivefleet for more biomass fertile areas. You'll recover quickly, in only a 1000 years or so, and now you know how to fight chaos, and fight it well! This lesson is our gift to you.
>>45327288 >Medical science has observed people's brain structures and found that some people's brains are of a gender that doesn't match their body, in objectively measurable ways.
This, if left untreated, is known to cause distress throughout a person's life.
Medical science has observed people's brain structures and found that some people who identify as other genders have brains that do not match the brains of other people of the same genetic sex. It was never found that they literally have brains of the opposite gender.
It's not terribly surprising that people with a mental abnormality have abnormal brains. The real question is how to treat the obvious distress this leads to. Letting them go through with their desire to change their appearance and mannerisms etc. to be a member of the opposite sex is widely popular these days, but it doesn't appear to have any positive effect at keeping them from killing themselves at a ludicrous rate compared to the general populace, so it would stand to reason that some alternative treatment should be tried out.
But just try proposing that and see where that gets you.
>>45322799 >never treated better then simple merc's Depends on the Sept (Sa'cea treats Kroot very well, and respect them a great deal), but I agree that the Tau don't treat the Kroot very well in general.
>>45330210 Just kill them and be done with it. Better do it professionally and quick, than wait for them to do it themselves and cost the state and everyone money until that point. Also it'd be less messy.
>>45330596 you're right greentextfag, the Imperium is always open to new ideas and welcomes different interpretations of The Emperor ( God Emperor if you feel so inclined friend! But no pressure:] ) and scoffs at the idea of having an organization so sophisticated that it has multiple branches dedicated to hunting down different kinds of dissidents.
>>45330892 >implying corruption and carelessness isn't what kills empires
Lives are expendable anyway. Also, why are you so invested in fictional space peasants? They ain't real and they won't suck your dick because you whitknighted for them on a Bhutanese shadow theater message board.
>>45331064 >it's not real I don't understand why you'd think it was real, we aren't talking about it being real. We're talking about the comparisons of the Imperium's brutality and the Tau Empire's brutality.
>>45331417 That's kind of what i'm getting at. Judge Dredd was murderous but not every crime was punished with death. But then herp derp turn up to 11 shoot jaywalkers and shit that 40k likes to do to its source material.
>>45331088 Actually, not this guy, but this whole thing started because someone said the Tau were chill, and I said they're not actually good because they conquer other species and force them into their religion/political philosophy. How that turned into "lol at least they're better than theocratic space nazis lol" I don't know.
But morality isn't relative. The Tau are bad guys, period. They're just the only faction that doesn't take their dickery to almost comical levels. We can actually relate to the Tau, because many human groups have done and still do basically what they do, unfortunately.
>>45307201 >The rest of the anons have filled you in pretty well. Just keep in mind that in the time it took man kind to start making hand cannons, they are already using plasma weaponry. They are expanding rather slow, but they arent weak. However, being young, nothing too bad for the imperium.
THEY ALSO HAVE FUCKING AWESOME BATTLEMECHS 9 RAPETIDES HAHAHAAH
>>45331480 >not actually good because they conquer other species and force them into their religion/political philosophy That doesn't even qualify them as bad guys on Earth. Are we stuck with anarchy as our only moral form of government?
>>45310620 DESU, your right. Lots of grey area. LOTS OF IT. Imperium is pretty fucking brutal if you get to it. But then again, so are the Tau. If you dont respect them or whatever, lol your whole planets gone. They aren't complete communist, but borderline at least, and there is the ethereal mind-control theroy...
>>45331480 Uhh bro that shit you just said doesn't remotely qualify them as bad guys even on Earth.
What they do is this thing called "civilization". Sure, they are imposing their civilization on other people, but how is that any different from say a gambling hall being shut down due to a new law being passed that outlaws gambling in a city? Both are imposed forms of civilization, and yes both are held together at gunpoint.
>>45331743 >>45331680 What we know about the Golden Throne is that it keeps the Emperor's body in a hellish state of limbo between death and life thus keeping his spirit...or at least a fraction of it anyway, intact enough to be the great beacon of Terra. This beacon would have long failed without the constant feeding of 1000 psykers that were deemed completely unusable (as in they would never have completed their training and been deemed "safe").
If the Emperor is anything resembling conscious we can assume he is in a constant sate of absolute agony.
>>45323183 >The Tau are not SJW at all >SJW >Subjugate anyone who do not buy into their doctrine. >Preach about equality >Treat those who are more "privileged" (you aint one of us niggah) like absolute shit.
>>45331991 >wew, are you gonna mention roads next? Thing is that we have precedent for anarchist societies. >Areas controlled by the Black Army in the Russian Civil War >Aragonian Anarchists that betrayed the Republican faction >post dynasty China All of those examples ended in failure, there isn't even a period of success before collapse like the soviet union, they just failed to defend, maintain, or improve their holdings. Anarchy is a failure because it tries to provide products of unity without actually achieving unity; its like when atheism or agnosticism is pushed to replace organized religion without the mythologized or 'spiritual' component.
>>45332199 >when atheism or agnosticism is pushed to replace organized religion without the mythologized or 'spiritual' component.
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hopes of reward after death." --Albert Einstein
>>45332912 I think you mistook where my bias is. I'm talking North Korean esque political/social domination via rewritten history as their mythology and hero worship of the Kim dynasty for their almost-deity.
Traditional religion obviously isn't where you find cutting edge ethics anyway, but its not the same fusion of political power and social control as it used to be.
Tau are still at 1/5th the speed of Imperium ships going by battlefleet gothic
The advantage of the Tau is the speed at which they build vehicles
Because of the constant inconsistencies In the Tau Codices the Tau have the fast construction speed of any race in 40k.
the Custodian Class was only built when the Tau made engines that allowed them to travel FTL, In 3rd ed lore the Tau had FTL slightly before the 2nd sphere Expansion, so the Custodian class gets made before the 2nd sphere, However in the new codices Tau don't get FTL engines until the 3rd sphere 997.M41 and thats when all the Custodian class ships get made... the Tau manage to shit out thousand of these ships within a span of a few years..
>>45335403 Tau ships should, hypothetically, be absolutely terrible compared to the rest of 40k's battleships. The lack of a Void Shield and smaller size would ensure that Macrocannons would eat through them without much trouble at all, not to mention that despite the poor quality of maintenance, most technologies that go into proper battlefleet vessels are very advanced, some of them completely outclassing Tau counterparts.
To counteract this, the Tau have the ability to shit out a hundred optimised ships where the size-counterpart of the Mechanicum would make a dozen.
So, once again, the Tau take the middle ground between quality and quantity compared to the Imperium's spam and Mechanicum's ridiculously OP toys.
>>45335679 Depends on the Forge World, some of them are advanced enough to build the larger ships in a far shorter timespan, though these are admittedly rare.
Deflectors also function in a different way to Void Shields, and an inherently less advanced and effective way, at that. They're still Macrocannon-chow for now, but this would probably change if you gave them another 500 years.
>>45335559 Tau ships are glass cannons, and they're easily produced. Tau weaponry is not on par with the Imperium's, but it's close enough to warrant some respect. Not to mention the fact that the Tau benefit from being one of the only races to hire merc vessels (which again won't compare when going toe-to-toe with the Imperial Navy, but it's enough of a threat to warrant some concern).
>>45303642 I've been wondering for some time now: what kind of mental conditioning gets people to play races other than human anyway? It doesn't make evolutionary sense to pretend not to be your own species.
>>45336867 Because Humans are capable of introspection and a greater deviancy from raw instinct. While this has helped give us what could be considered the greatest advantage any recorded fauna has ever had, it's kinda shit in some ways. We're not a species that does what "makes sense," on an evolutionary scale anymore, or at least not entirely.
didn't the Tau conquer a planet that was pretty ripe with Psykers, but whenever someone complained about them, or even a psyker sought help, they basically made fun of their little fantasies until the warp bled over heavily and took over the planet?
>>45336920 With the potential exception of Ethereals, the Tau have virtually no idea of what lies beyond, even Farsight and his Enclaves are pretty blind to it. This is one of their major weaknesses and something that will be tremendously difficult to overcome.
They'd probably try to develop a new physics-based weapon or something to counter Daemons then flip out when the effect is basically the same as every other one they've got.
>>45336949 Farsight is a bit of an odd one. He's lived longer than a normal Tau, due to his blade being warp-ish, but has he never felt any sort of pull from the warp? I know that Tau has a low presence in the warp, but still - he commands a lot of forces, and you'd think a demon or two would go "hey, I could use this guy to further my own ambition!".
>>45336966 Haven't read all of Farsight's lore myself, but it would stand to reason that he's developed a connection to the Immaterium obvious enough for him to notice it. Whether full-blown Daemonic whispers or that odd feeling of being a lesser part of something greater.
At the same time, the Tau seem to have superior space tactics partially because they have to minimize risks instead of relying on brute force approaches.
This is why every single time the Imperium even HEARS the word "Tyranids", what follows is a list of heroic sacrifices and last stands amid terrible losses... and the Tau just fire lots and lots of missiles at the problem from extreme range and whittle the Tyranid splinter fleet down to nothing without ever letting the nids get to a planet or close enough to fight back.
The Imperium has never faced a splinter fleet without suffering heavy losses, but the Air Caste has a recorded win of "we didn't lose anything but the shots we fired".
Most people seem to think the blade he has is Necrontyr in origin, though. Not confirmed, obviously, because 40k has yet to 'confirm' the existence of Grey Knights, but it fits the facts more than the other possibilities.
The alternative would actually be kind of funny, though. If that thing is a demon weapon and Farsight still isn't feeling any influence from it, then it is either the world's shittiest demon or the Tau really are nigh impossible to corrupt by Chaos.
>>45336988 >the Tau seem to have superior space tactics Mainly because the completely irrelevant enemies the navy takes out behind the shed are never really mentioned, while (comparatively) minuscule engagements are noteworthy to the tau.
>>45315814 >Question their rule? In the Tau Empire, you might get off with a warning, or be required to take some lessons over a few weeks to see if you improve. a) no. See Farsight sympathisers disappearing. b) What you say is how the Warsaw Pact countries did things usually. Still was repressive as fuck.
But GW doesn't know that. Everything in the entry says that the Ultramarines got their shit wrecked and very nearly lost everything, only barely surviving. The popular definition of Decimation, not the actual one.
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