How do we fight the Eldrazi Menace?
Four weeks until triple modern GP weekend, what are you prepping and how do you expect to combat the meta?
>No hope in grinding out drafts until I can afford good cards?
you don't get tix for winning drafts anymore.
basically if you didn't grind drafts or $20 red deck into a real deck winning tix last year it isn't worth playing constructed on modo because the wizard funbux you get for winning are not tradeable and thus cannot be used to buy cards for constructed.
>How do we fight the Eldrazi Menace?
By rolling over for a standard season and getting the heart and soul of their deck banned because wizard's doesn't print hate to combat the boogiemen decks because the hate cards are inevitably "too strong for standard."
I meant modern season. You get the idea. WotC likes their ban hammer. Once they've stopped selling gatewatch packs, they'll feel no hesitation to ban the fuck out of everything the eldrazi ever loved.
Probably a Twin or two in the Top 8, but I still believe that the Eldrazi was a carefully crafted and designed deck, after all were dealing with the pros of the pros here. Even if there was no Twin ban, we would still see a lot of Eldrazi
the ban that allowed the eldrazi deck to win wasn't twin, it was the bans like seething song
eldrazi is a deck with almost no interaction at all, it wins because the faster decks that are supposed to punish that kind of strategy were all banned out of the format
those fast combo decks were in turn supposed to be balanced by control decks, but since the combo decks were banned and there aren't enough cantrips and counters for a control deck both are missing and you get modern as you know it
Is it just me, or does this work in reverse in legacy? I play Storm, and my best matchups are midrange/control decks and my worst are delver decks.
Before you say Miracles, its possible to grind them out playing ANT so I don't consider it a horrible matchup. Actually pretty even.
pretty much this
>WotC decided everyone has to share their fetish for creatures
>print way better/faster/stronger/resilient creatures than removal
>ban every combo deck - control's natural prey - from the format because it feels bad to lose because you did nothing but vomit your hand on the battlefield
>praise diversity despite all combo decks being banned and no one with a brain showing up with control
pod was combo
twin was combo
control cards in modern are reprints of real control cards with enormous drawbacks to make them "fair" - "fair" in the sense of: the one trying to control has to have a drawback
I won't be playing modern for a while I guess
this 33%Affinity/33%Burn/33%Eldrazi bullshit is just stupid
You're looking at one side of the globe and saying it's dark.
If there are faster, more fragile combo decks out there that can trounce aggro, then aggro has a bad matchup. They have to run more interactive cards. Furthermore, the decks that prey upon the aggro decks are in turn preyed upon by slower control decks.
Its a triangle. Without one side, you just have a line. When one side of the line beats the other side of the line, there's no reason to play something other than the side of the line that wins
Reminder to run 4 of these in every deck forever.
This only works if combo decks are both slow enough that control gets their time to do shit, while linear enough that they fold against disruption. Making combo faster is a dangerous proposition.
Dismemberment was only the second-worst Phyrexian mana fuckup to come out of that block. Pic related.
And the reason Phyrexian mana is so busted is because it was only thought up late in development to replace an utterly retarded mechanic Ken Nagle was trying to force in.
MM was a worse card, but in my opinion in a way that's better because its banned in every format except vintage, where it actually makes the format really interesting.
Dismember isn't strong enough to ever get banned, but strong enough to always be playable
That makes sense. To be fair, the phyrexian mana creatures are probably the most completely garbage. Even the ones that see play feel pretty terrible. Except porcelain legionaire, who totally deserves to be played in vintage.
Dismember is necessary because it's removal for any color, does more than a bolt, doesn't ramp them like path, and gets around indestructable. But I don't think dismember is too good so much as modern has no exceptionally good creature removal. Removal's been fine for a while since creatures stayed relatively on curve before eldrazi - you wouldn't see that many 5 toughness guys on turn two, and if you did it was because they were being cheated out so killing them ended up gaining you card advantage. Now though we're seeing dismember become more and more mandatory in every deck since it's the only thing that can deal with these massive fatties coming out super quick.
Oh yeah she's pretty good. I meant the really shitty ones, like the green one or slash panther.
The more I think, the more of them are either good in Shops, or have been played in Shops
Ken Nagle's baby Phyrexian mechanic was one where you put cards into your opponent's deck. He called it 'Pwnage' because he is Ken Nagle.
He spent so long trying to force this blatantly infeasible mechanic that when they scrapped it they didn't have much time to find a replacement one, hence Phyrexian Mana.
Yeah, I can understand that. Just saying that it's compounded by the fact that not only does it fit in every deck, but it's MANDATORY in every deck right now since Wizards refuses to let any non-creature heavy deck be viable.
The whole point of Phyrexian mana was to show that the Phyrexians can break the colors using life instead.
It's not 1 mana, it's also 4 life. That can make or break a game in a lot of situations.
Because gA has no thread and there is no legacy thread either, I ask you guys something about a confusing card: Humility
1. Humility is on board, I have a manland (e.g. Treetop Village). Activated manland won't be 1/1, but 3/3 because Humilitys time stamp is before the lands, right?
2. Same as above goes with planeswalkers who turn into creatures, like Sarkhan Dragonspeaker?
3. I know, that ETB-effects stifle with humility. But what is about Cascade and Clone-effects?
4. Are only creatures in play affected by Humility or creatures in my hand and in my library, too? (Could be related to 3.)
1 and 2: correct
3: cascade is a trigger on cast, so it is unaffected. Clones still work, they have the name and mana cost of any other creature. They're just 1/1s and will never stop, even if humility leaves play
4. Only creatures in play. Not sure about this one
>madness coming back
maybe we'll get this? i dont think it will help anyone but it seems cool. lets hope psychatogs live on innistrad as well
This is true.
I ran into this question when it came to Bludgeon Brawl and Godo, Bandit Warlord.
When Godo enters the field you get to go tutor up an equipment. Bludgeon Brawl makes all artifacts equipments.
I'm sure you can understand my disappointment.
On the subject, we all know that magic has infinite combos, but is there ever a way to turn it into a countable vs uncountable infinities fight? Or a "some infinities are larger than others" fight
>How do we fight the Eldrazi Menace?
When 9% of an already uninteractive field crushes the PT, I don't think playing reactively is the solution. Eldrazi is simply the logical conclusion of Modern deckbuilding: be faster. If you want to beat Eldrazi, win faster than them. Now YOU are the problem deck and to beat you we need to make a faster deck.
this card could actually fit into what we can expect for SoI
also, I like it
all that looting in UR makes my cock diamonds even without it generating card advantage
Depends on the combo. Because you can't actually have "infinite" of something in magic. You CAN do an action an "infinite" amount of times, but the value that is being changed from that action does have to end on a set number.
You can't just say "I now have infinite life." You have to choose a set amount. The next infinite combo (like damage for instance) would just have to be one number higher than whatever the life total chosen was.
Well let's say that we can each make infinite mana with some viridian joiner combo, but for every mana you make I make 2. I have some way to turn 1mana into 1 damage, you can turn 1 damage into one life. Do I win the fight.
yeah i saw that too, maybe it was speculation for this, it seemed incredibly random however it is a whiteborder modern card with an effect that wizards will never print again with their "babys first card game" attitude they have now
Is it possible to make an Eggs list which doesn't so much focus on the infinite damage kill as much as it focuses on cycling a Ghost Quarter to destroy their opponent's land? It seems like a much easier prospect to loop 3-5 times rather than try and loop one specific artifact 20 times.
Depends on the triggers and what I'm using to turn the damage into life. Also how you're using the 1 mana to do 1 damage.
And am I having to pay 1 mana to turn the 1 damage into 1 life?
To elaborate, standard will be 4 sets out of the last 6. The most recent block is always legal, the last two switch off at random. So it could be SOI/FR/ORI/DTK, SOI/DTK/FR/KTK or whatever.
Instead of random card bannings in modern, random blocks rotate. When SOI comes out, maybe we lose scars block and gain onslaught block.
A more unstable rotation format harms speculators, as holding onto a card that might just not be legal in a month doesn't seem like a winning proposition
I noticed that a few of those Eldrazi decks were playing Wastes for the last few land slots instead of something like Seagate Wreckage.
Is there a reason for this? Seems like a deck that's as eager to vomit out it's hand as Eldrazi Aggro would benefit from a way to possibly draw a card or two if the game stalls.
Is it just because of Ghost Quarter and Fulminator Mage?
Well, because of how the stack works we would just go back and forth until one of us quits, or the game time runs out.
Lets just assume that for every 1 mana I make, you make 2. We can both do the action of creating mana an infinite amount of times. You have an ability, that for 1 mana you can deal 1 damage to a player. You can do this an infinite amount of times. I have an ability that for 1 mana I gain 1 life. I can do this an infinite amount of times.
It would play out as follows;
You generate 2 mana, use 1 to hit me for 1.
You pass priority to me.
In response I generate 1 mana, and use it to gain 1 life.
The stack resolves, I have gained one life and then lost one life. My life remains unchanged, you have 1 mana in your pool.
You use 1 mana to deal 1 damage to me.
In response I generate 1 mana and use it to gain 1 life.
Stack resolves, my life remains unchanged and you have no mana in your pool.
In the end nothing has changed. We can do this any number of times we want. My life total could no go higher, as you would just damage me back down. But it cannot go lower as I will just heal myself back up.
Depending on exactly how we're generating the mana, we could put the abilities on the stack as many times as we wanted too. But in response the opposing player would be able to undo what the other had done.
So either the game would end in a draw, or both players would choose to ignore those infinite combos, or prior conditions would determine the winner.
Now this is all assuming that we can each generate mana as many times as we want at instant speed.
For once we have a chance to not fuck up
Let's list all cards that might end up being busted buyout targets if they print strong enough Madness cards
rares preferably, something like Faithless Looting has just too much supply to actually matter
I'll start with
Not really, no. Because like I said there really is no "my infinity is bigger than your infinity."
Because there is no infinity and players do have to choose a set number on things.
Which means that so long as both players are truly able to do an action an infinite amount of times, they are equal.
Modern has a banlist based rotation. Generally, whatever deck won the last pro tour becomes banned. Occasionally other things do as well. Is generallybeing able to predict which decks are going to take a nosedive before each pro tour really going to make a big difference.
You can't say every time you Y, I X, while they say every time you X, I Y?
In the case that you can, it is mathematically possible for one person to be able to generate a larger infinity than the other in the case I described, assuming they were both going
what about flip Lily
she is right now a flip walker for like 15 bucks
it would require some work to get her to flip, but form then on it is
>+2 value for me, discard for you
yeah.. and I just now realized LotV does the same without her needing to flip and being better overall...
forget what I wrote
Guess Jace is once again the only one gaining even more $$$
Well, honestly we shouldn't even be using the word infinity to refer to any number within the game. Because infinity is not a number, but an idea.
You can at no point in the game have true infinity.
You will always have a SET number. Be it (3), or (1,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999).
TURN 1 PLAY FOREST CAST WILD NACATAL
TURN 2 PLAY FOREST CAST EXPLORE >PLAY FOREST CAST NACATL SWING 1 DMG
TURN 3 CAST SCAPESHIFT >TUTOR PLAINS AND MOUNTAIN
I do get what you're saying though.
It's like looking at something like,
X vs X+1.
The equation (X+1) is obviously bigger than just (X).
And if we can generate these equations as many times as we want, the person generating (X+1) will have a higher end number.
But again, X HAS to be a number. In this case X cannot be ∞.
You may think, "But anon, I can generate (X+1) an infinite amount of times! And if you can generate only (X) an infinite amount of times, my "infinite X value" will be bigger."
And that's wrong because you actually cannot generate your (X+1) an infinite amount of times. The game would time out. You'd go to rounds. You'd pass out from lack of water/food. You'd die before you did an action an infinite amount of times. Most likely though I'd just call a judge and call you on slowplay.
So we're left with the fact that you did an action a set number of times before becoming unable to repeat that action. Which means you did not reach infinity.
The game has built in rules that do not allow true infinity. Slow play, having to pass priority, etc.
Here are some of the things I'm thinking about or that fast infinite mana combo:
4 Judge Familiar
4 Bloom Tender
4 Freed from the Real
4 Pact of Negation
you guys can chip in from here if you want, I just want to brew against the Eldrazi
So, my store likes to do tournaments with a theme to them from time to time, and this time they are doing a modern tournament without the banlist.
So, could /tg/ help me on building the most absurdly broken deck on modern?
How far can you make it into this article without wanting to vomit?
What the fuck is this? Overnight jump from 5 to 60? Where's the star city games article driving another price spike?
people are guessing that prison is the way to beat eldrazi since you cant really play any kind of removal or counter game against it and racing it is too hard
worship is hard for the deck to answer, harder than artifact prison like ensnaring bridge because of the affinity hate
but you still need to have a creature with a but bigger than
>6 to avoid Dismember
>7 to avoid Dismember+GutShot
or you have to play Worship + Gladecover/Bogle
how you plan to get to 4 mana and find a 4 off in your deck against Eldrazi on the other hand...
Should I try martyrproc? It already plays Ghostly Prison, Wraths, Ghost Quarters? Surviving the early flurry should be doable with the lifegain? Playing paths in the main is normalas well. Kami of False hope is played. No good targets for Eldrazi Obligator to steal either. Mana Tithe is possible.
There's multiple enchantement tutors available in modern but I'm pretty sure the cheapest of those starts at 3 CMC which means that by the time you assemble your fortress you're already dead.
Also that for some reason something being conditional makes it more interesting. I was really hoping that SOI would be interesting so I could start playing standard and not be bored out of my skull. Apparently not.
Eldrazi is going to make an impact in Legacy. That is not a neutered deck. Considering how close Affinity is to its Legacy counterpart and how Eldrazi has no problems dispatching that deck, I think we might have a problem on ours hands. I'm willing to bet the 3 copies of Tasigur I own that the metagame cannot stop Eldrazi.
>play midrange bant of my own creation
>new opponents never sure what to expect
>drop pic related and watch them panic as I counter all their removal because they know that it'll be over in 2 turns, maybe even sooner
Noble, GoST, VoR, little Ajani, Elspeth 1.0,...
I love this deck. Obviously it´s no tournament calibre but it's doing well enough for me to enjoy playing it and it's fun to throw something at Spikes that they don't expect.
Legacy affinity is pretty crappy. It's not the format where your uninteractive beater deck is going to shine.
Consider this: turn 2 you're making a guy. Turn 2 infect can kill you. Storm can kill you. Reanimator can make a guy that's better than your entire deck. Miracles can set up some more. Shardless is casting a Lilliana.
The eldrazi deck isn't ahead of the curve. Its a little behind.
In testing, URdrazi had an 80% preboard win rate against Twin. Post board on the draw it dropped to 50%. On the play it went back up to 80%.
This Pro Tour, nothing else stood a chance.
Look at other no banlist tournies.
I don't know why this wasn't the first advice given to you.
I made this B/W chalice a while ago (actual list on another computer made this from memory), also people tend to overrate combo towards the beginning so you might have to prepare for more of it than usual.
Eldrazi stompy 12-post probably wouldn't be that bad hilariously enough.
Turn 1 Thorn might give you a chance. Chalice is very beatable. You're trying to say that a deck that can't run card selection has any chance of somehow being the best deck in the format.
The reason why MUD is so underrepresented is because it mulligans itself to death more times than you would like.
>without realizing that (delver) wasn't the actual problem card in the deck
>and to a lesser extent Gitaxian Probe and Mana Leak
So the color pie for wizards is Blue:aggro red:aggro green:midrange black:midrange and white:aggro/midrange?
As someone who's been on that deck since Gavin Verhey's article about it.
It has absolutely no chance. At all.
They Chalice on 1 turn 1. You're fucked.
They have Dismember in their opener. You're fucked.
Same with Gut Shot.
They can Ghost Quarter your land in your upkeep to stop you casting the Weird, even, if that's necessary. There are too many ways to lose.
I haven't played MTG since Zendikar/Innistrad blocks, only payed attention again due to the current block returning to that Plane.
I noticed a lot of my old dual sac lands and certain cards like Liliana of the Veil are at a pretty spiked value.
I was debating selling some off to get some seed money to get back into the game.
What cards from these blocks have good trade/sell value aside from what I have below:
Creeping Tar Pit
Raging Ravine (Premium)
Sorin Markov (Premium, Zendikar)
Sorin Markov (M12)
Iona, Shield of Emeria
I don't have any Goblin Guide or the other sac lands. Any non-obvious ones I should look out for?
Control sucks and I can't play cool Extended type combo decks, this format sucks. It's all powercreeped creature BS.
Kill off Modern and create a new format w no rotation and is able to use the lesser half of Legacys card pool.
>Invasion/Onslaught/Oddesey/7th plus everything after
All the fun combo decks come back that wizards weirdly printed tons of hate for when no one was playing it and control gets to shit on all the slow midrange creature decks Wizards ruined standard with.
My thought is to sideboard in land hate. Molten Rain and Fulminator Mage are the only conceivable answers to Eldrazi. It slows them enough to prevent turn 3 kills, provided you live that long.
The only deck that's fast enough to race Eldrazi is Affinity and, well, we all saw what happened. I'm a burn player and even I feel like burn is not a good choice in this meta. Eldrazi is simply too fast.
>To be fair, if the top8 is any indication of the format, that might be a good call
You know what, i'll concede that point. Perhaps additional copies of Torpor Orb should be run in decks that aren't playing Colourless Eldrazi
They already won by turn 3.
Turn 2 even.
Face it, this match is complete ass for Burn
>Can't cast 1-drops
>Can't attack on the ground
>Eidolons don't do shit
>Creatures too hueg to bolt or blaze
I have Grixis control and burn, with Ad Nauseam slowly coming together. Control is too slow against the Eldrazi onslaught and Bolt is basically a dead card. Ad Nauseam is plausible because of instant wins, but since it can't go off before turn 4, it's still not good enough.
Tezzeret, AoB in an Affinity shell with Ensnaring Bridge? Some MB Ancient Grudge against the Chalice on 0 and we are good to go.
But seriously, it seems like Eldrazi cannot be hosed like my Robots with some SB slots. I think we currently are on the way to either play Eldrazi or play to beat eldrazi, which would warrant a ban.
100%. There is no way this card is staying at $60. It will not be as cheap as it was for a long time, but it will probably settle at $5-10 bucks. Worse comes to worse and it keeps rising, you still made $59 per copy.
>sac Noble Hierarch, grab Progenitus
Eat shit, Eldrazi
yes, actually. It is still possible to destroy a Karn with several different popular spells. Only
wraths can destroy Progenitus, and very few modern decks are running supreme verdict and
I do have merfolk finished.I guess I should start playing some number of sea's claim mainboard.
What do you think is the correct number?
Its either -2 Phantasmal Image, +2 Sea's claim, or -2 image, -2 merrow, +4 Sea's claim.
is this even enough to stop this stupid deck, or am I better off using my vials in legacy?
Would this be a good reprint? Gives white some more answers and it's good land destruction.
If you're going to just make a new format for fun why not just eliminate the powercreeped creatures in general?
All creatures printed in the modern border get -1/-1 or -1/-0 if they only have 1 toughness.
I mean, if you hate modern magic so much you could also just make something like 93/94 magic except actually good and not elitist as fuck (Mirage through Lorwyn is a decent range, though there are tons of acceptable ones).
I'll actually be making more than that because those are US prices, converting to Aus prices which stores and some people do here when buying/selling i'm looking to make about $85 a piece per copy of Worship
This is how you cull the eldrazi menace.
Unban dread return
Gobbels, master necromancer 5BB
Delirium: as long this is in your exile or graveyard, your cards cannot be exiled from graveyards.
Just bitch to these guys if you want to change modern
Is it just me or is Troll Worship really well poised in the new meta?
It seems like none of these Eldrazi lists run Ulamog anymore, so what can they do to you if you get Worship down on turn 3?
I guess you still have to watch out for Inkmoth, but the deck runs ghost quarters for that.
While maro did point someone else in R&D as the dredgehater, maro himself dislikes it since he made it and it was a "horrible mistake", just so you get the idea it isn't even on the storm list. That's how bad dredge is. Reserved to the level 14.88.
Reminder he said "I-it is a mistake because you get to loop cards!!1" when that's literally buyback.
Lmao, the kike at it again.
Silver bullets are such shit for game play. Let's see how the meta goes and then expect a ban after OT Dub packs are off of store shelves
>just so you get the idea it isn't even on the storm list. That's how bad dredge is.
I mean, 11 is on the scale if he really hated dredge that much he'd just make it 12.
>Reminder he said "I-it is a mistake because you get to loop cards
Link? Also he he might consider buyback a mistake as well considering it's a 6 on the scale. Also buyback doesn't prevent you from drawing new cards, which is why loam pox in modern is so fucking boring (legacy loam pox/lands is better as it has more targets for loam, intuition lands is one of the most fun decks I've ever played but it can be a problem)
Just realized that if you take the knot turn 2 you're fucked but still it seems like at least an even matchup
Wow, never thought my favorite meme card would be taken seriously
>'drazi dominates the format
>netdeckers unload all their tier 2-3 decks to get the flavor of the season
>buy up their cheap cards
>laugh when netdeckers get buttravaged by DCI 'drazi bans
Is this a good plan?
Not that they were too complicated, they required too much tracking. Suspend has a trigger every turn and threshold forces people to count the graveyard too often (their words not mine)
Things important to keep in mind as well.
but its like playing the lottery! buy a box so you can get one and then trade it in for another box! its fun and totally risk free because you were going to buy a box anyway and its fun!
Cheap creatures with good effects and mad sizes with multiple ways to rush them out, including two lands that are worth 2 mana (and come in untapped), one of which can easily be turned into a Mishra's Workshop.
The final game of the Pro-Tour saw one player cast 5 mana worth of creature spells TURN 1.
Something tells me you bought BFZ in droves like a good goy.
Other then the fact it's a sales gimmick to move packs. Wizards also apparently think that expeditions are suitable reprints, and they can sit on their hands for an actual needed reprints of those cards.
Well its an added bonus that didn't need to be there. They didn't take anything worthwhile out of the set to fit room for them in, they just added them on top.
I don't even like them and havn't opened a pack since fate reforged but for some people theyre neat
Because Control keeps Combo in check. Without Control, there can be no good Combo decks, because they fucking obliterate your anus unchecked, making bans necessary.
So, if Control is dead and you keep banning Combo, there's only Aggro left. So, in the long run, a healthy format needs all three elements you prancing la-la homo man.
They are still mad about Lorwyn//Shadowmoor-Alara Standard still. And the refusal to print a 1 cmc faerie that isn't complete ass. Turn 2 Spellstutter that can counter a 2cmc spell would be great. Also Abrupt Decay.
Its time for control to shine,countering eldrazi is easy,they are fast and strong but fragile and anything can kill them
6 from the mimics and 4 from dismember. Does path work for blanking the triggers? With dismember it makes the smasher a 0/0 before the check resolves, but does killing it mean the same thing?
its a motherfucking Starter Deck Rare.
is this the first time ever, a Starter Deck Rare is the ultimate card in a Pro Tour winning deck?
my problem with all this Alien Shenanigans is that it was obvious something was up with the design.
Thought-Knot and Reality Smasher are more pushed than the "colored" eldrazi variety, at cost and ABOVE their cost.
Oath has a slew of unplayable rare Eldrazi but it just so happens the (C) Eldrazi are all fucking great pretty much.
smells of a forced push for modern inclusion.
i see it.
ETB effects from the Mimics go on the Stack, then Dismember on Top, resolves first, kills the Smasher by making it 0/0, and then the effects resolve allowing the player to chose if the mimics go 0/0 or stay 2/1.
Magic rules are complicated...
Personally I'm over the moon that we got a mass of eternal playables. What I'm not happy about is how they thoroughly wrecked everything else and we won't be allowed to keep them or rather their enablers.
>around 400 euros to complete a colorless eldrazi deck already having eyes, temples and all the eldrazi
Yeah..I think I'll just play on Xmage
Do some playtesting.
If it's actually good against these decks, I wager it will go up.
If it isn't, then you don't need it.
I imagine that you'll either want to buy it now or never buy it ever.
I think it will work to some degree to slow down eldrazi for 1, maybe 2 turns if the eldrazi player doesn't have Dismember or Warping Wail.
You also have to consider how it will dilute whatever you're playing as well, and that's the biggest consideration.