I am working on a virtual tabletop setup/map builder and I am looking for feedback/input as to what you would want to see in something like this.
I know there are plenty out there, but none of them had decent map making/control schemes that I enjoyed.
**LAN networking between GM host (controls entire board) and player clients (can request player movements)
**Full line of sight system for as many player characters as wanted
**Lightmap rendering and baking - this makes the light casting static, but renderable on low-end machines (including my Note II android)
**moving and rotating of PCs and baddies
Most likely, I'll just end up releasing it for chump change (enough to cover web hosting) but without DRM, so that means free for you. Arr!
In any case, let me know what you think/what you would like to see in a virtual tabletop. This is mostly for play over a LAN system and merely used to display complicated maps rather than have to constantly put together those cardboard squares.
It is purely top-down - I didn't want to complicate the rendering with isometric. Much more computing. And yes - disabling squares is already working - currently it's only enabled on other unit tokens.
It can run via browser, but it's difficult to program for WebGL and work with all browsers/version. So, it'll take a lot of tinkering to get it to work via browser, but definitely workable. (see attached for the lovely webGL glitches)
>In any case, let me know what you think/what you would like to see in a virtual tabletop. This is mostly for play over a LAN system and merely used to display complicated maps rather than have to constantly put together those cardboard squares.
I'd like to know whether you'll test it extensively over Hamachi. RPTool is kind of punishing and doesn't look even remotely as good, so this would be quite relevant to my interests.
Have not extensively tested over Hamachi...the real purpose isn't to allow distance play - just to have a nice complex map to work with in person (and nice touch screen controls so that the players can move their tokens).
That said...it should work just fine over Hamachi. You can always port forward as well.
Just Bumping with a list of planned features that I could think of off the top of my head:
*Import custom tokens
*Import custom map placeables (also able to attach lighting walls to them)
*Import custom terrain textures and paint onto background
*Save maps and share with your friends/online
*Export maps to a .png image that can be printed or used with your own Virtual Tabletop system
*Area of effect casters that interact with walls like the lighting does so you can test area of effect spells (circles, cones, rays, etc)
*Chat system for long-distance play.
*Damage monitoring for units so players can tell at a glance how much damage they've accumulated to each baddie
*baddies with larger 2x2, 3x3, etc bases
*interactive objects like:
*****doors that open/close
*****chests that open close
*****levers/traps that are invisible until activated
Animation showing the lighting/moving in action
>He doesn't know Roll20 already exists.
Have tried roll 20 - not impressed. I'll give it's an impressive toolkit, but it doesn't fit my needs and I'm guessing a lot of other people's. Two biggest reasons for me:
1) the map making in r20 is non-existent. You must rely on outside sources to build/steal maps.
2) there is no light baking/automatic line of sight generation
>Both of these
Allright mang you got good intentions
I mostly just use free drawing to do maps, it would be nice if you could keep that in there so quick edits can be made on the fly
I understand your desire for a tool with more design elements, Most of my DMing has been done with a tablet and laptop infront of a table and this sounds like it would help.
Best of luck!
This is probably the most intuitive dungeon mapper I've found and you should definitely crib from it.
Being able to draw walls as lines (and have them seamlessly connect) is a must.
What I mean is that it must be hand drawn on - with mine, you place the tiles/map assets and the line of sight walls are automatically generated. You can obviously edit these after they are generated in case you want to manually change it.
Thanks - I'll probably include a whiteboard like feature so that the DM can draw on the map for the players to see. Also, the map assets can be added on the fly as well. here's the baddie adding ui currently.
I'm intending to supplement an in-person game. Don't really want to replace that.
Yeah - this is going to be my base for actually building the map. Of all the toolkits, this was my favorite. But it still lacked a lot in the department of generating lighting for the map.
>I'm intending to supplement an in-person game. Don't really want to replace that.
Could you add an option to view cover as well as line of sight? Maybe a toggle or something. Basically, the d20/5E rule where you draw lines from a corner to see how much cover a creature has.
Preview of terrain painting
This is one of the things that I think I will definitely include. That and an area of effect stamp that gives each tile a % of cover calculation. Still not entirely sure how I'll do some of those calculations, but I'm sure I can figure it out.
You had my interest, but now you have my attention.
Yeah - this is outside of the scope of the toolkit. Had an idea to do isometric, but I couldn't do decent light rendering that works on all platforms. That and, I'm kinda oldschool and like the top down grid. Pic attached was my isometric attempt that I gave up on. It was also nuts dealing with players behind high altitude bits of terrain.
Hmm - layers could work. Conceptually I can parent all the objects/tiles to a parent layer and adjust rendering based on that. That's a potential.
As far as transparency, and shadows, yes, of course.
Also - current look at the map editor. It's still a work in progress, but the goal is really easy to use and quick to actually create maps. Still working on importing this into the current map renderer, so it looks a bit different, but this is how it'll work for generating maps.
That seems snazzy.
So you can draw stuff out then remove parts of it, and It Just Works?
I like to do a lot of map-making by reduction, but most of these tools only let you delete the whole room, the whole wall, whatever. It's one of the big problems with Pyromancers.
Thanks. And yes; I couldn't stand the fact that all the map editors didn't work intuitively. For every tool, left click adds and right click subtracts. So, here, you can just left click to add a room square, right click to remove a square. Then, when you're set on what it should look like, you move to the wall edit tool and add/subtract walls a grid-line at a time. Hold shift and right click and you can knock out an entire wall segment. When I finish integrating this sucker, you'll be able to draw polygonal rooms as well and knock out grid size sections of that.
That sounds great.
How about randomized tiles as well as repeating ones? The Pyromancers Dungeon Painter does something like this.
Also these assets look nice. Please team up with Dyson or Mike Schley or someone. I'd pay good money (well, SOME money) for an asset pack that lets me do maps in their style.
Few months before an alpha with all core functions; a solid 6 mo after alpha to polish it for beta. Then another couple months to polish for release.
Have registered rpgmapbuilder.com if you wanna follow for later. No website yet, but it'll be up whenever I get around to it.
Much obliged. Good to know there's at least some support for actually finishing this as a viable product. Price is definitely going to be low - thinking like $5-10 for a permanent license to all future versions and for each platform (pc, android, iOS). No DRM, so if you're strapped for cash, there will always be a pirated version somewhere as well.
Don't fucking waste a single second on voice protocal. Jesus christ, just don't bother devoting even one minute to any audio input or output other than a bleep for the gui. No audio. No voice. Don't do it. It's a gigantic waste of your time, and they all sink resources into it, and then every uses skype and teamspeak anyhow. You've got mp3 streaming? Wow, because I forgot that I have a fucking computer.
Sound out man. Im hoping to have finally found stable employment by then so I'll set aside part of a paycheck for that.
Either way, Im looking forward to seeing how it works out. Godpseed man
Nothing is 3d. I want as many devices to be able to run this sucker; that and 2d art is so much easier to create. I wanted something ordinary Joes would be able to add their own content to.
As far as how they work, they are just a circular shadow caster. This shit was fun to program. I learned about and then utilized Thales theorem to calculate the shadow casting angles...but that's probably not what you're asking.
Nice to see someone developing a software like that. I've often thought about doing something similar myself too, but always ended up against it, because I don't really play online anyway.
Do you have a website for your stuff? Keep it up!
As in, Game Maker?
Man, that program has come a long way.
rpgmapbuilder.com - nothing up yet, but soon to be
I never play online - don't like the player-player player-dm interactions. This tool is to supplement my in-person game sessions - I'm currently using it to run Sunless citadel. I DM from my laptop and control the baddies; the players play on an android tablet and move their player tokens via the touchscreen.
We also project the player's screen on a 30 in tv so it's easier to see the play screen.
So far, the feedback has been all good.
Never got much into Java because of the poor graphics driver integration - everything "looked" like it was programmed in java and that made me rage quit to another language.
Yeah - it's GM:Studio now. They even have their YYC which compiles everything in C++. Shit is blazing fast and compiles on every platform.
Doors added. Light isn't updated real-time so that it works well on tablets and lower end devices.
Sadness it's not hex
So elevation isn't a thing, at least not depicted
Could you put in a tac overlay, basically a colored tint to ID what's higher or lower?
Another idea: the GM can adjust the lightlevels for characters individually. So someone is someone is blinded the can't see anything, or if someone has dark vision the GM can lessen shadows.
hard coded in some hex stuff to show the hex people some love and to show how flexible the system is.
Some sort of overlay wouldn't be hard to do - could even cash shadows on lower elevation to help with the look of it.
Here's a question. Will there be/is there a print function for people who want to transfer things to and from pencil-and-paper to digital? I mean, besides just hitting PrintScreen and pasting it into whatever.
For larger baddies, it is possible to split them into "components" that get destroyed as you damage them, or enable them to grow new ones that change their size?
Although I suppose for the standard "mutate into a giant", you can just replace the token with a bigger one.
Yes - hence the export to .png function I mentioned. I really love printing so some nice 11x17 pages to cut together for my players. So this is a must.
I've never used something this complicated in all of my tabletop experience. Perhaps that's something outside of the DnD/Pathfinder universe. No plans for this.
I wasn't trying to complicate things. At it's base, it's just a matter of making positioning a dynamic mechanic.
>All outer surfaces resist physical damage
>If you destroy one "fourth" of the creature, it is removed from the model, revealing the sides that are vulnerable to physical damage.
>A 4x1 wall creature is now a 3x1 creature, allowing you to run past it before it crushes you into the end of the hall
This, if anything make it so it can support gif tokens if possible. The only thing I want out of roll20 is being able to have custom token animations that are linked to macros. Right now they only do it for built in fireball effects.
Firstly, having used and abused pretty much every available digital map making tool, and run several games over skype through maptool and roll20 and anything else I could find because they all suck dick, I can't wait to see how this project develops.
Secondly as a developer myself, I know how much work goes into building a tool like this, so I fucking salute you. Good luck you glorious bastard.
>something ordinary Joes would be able to add their own content to.
Are you telling me that you can add custom art for tiles and walls?
Your system looks really dynamic, with how the walls connect automatically, is it simple to make stuff for that?
checked out this whole thread and I gotta say this is looking to be exactly what I have wanted to see in a virtual tabletop.
Will you be updating here often or is there another site we can keep an eye out for you on?
Perhaps where you will be releasing it?
I'd love to follow the project and would kill to get it as soon as you have it out for sale.
He already mentioned a (soon-to-be) website here:
So, here's a way you could implement elevation. Hexographer has a feature where you can set the elevation of a hex, and the hex gets a border where half of it is a shade lighter, and the other half is a shade darker. You could do something similar, and have a tooltip that shows the elevation if you hover and hold a certain key.
Gif tokens already supported - had an idea for allowing animation sets, but that would be a v2.0 kinda thing. Something along the lines of 'triggers' that cause certain animations to play.
Thanks bud - I'm finding the hardest part is developing an intuitive GUI...I'm putting my GUI development classes to good use, though.
Yeah - the importing of textures is easy. For the rooms, all they will have to import is a repeatable wall texture, a wall cap for corners, and a single (or multiple for variations) ground texture. For terrains it's just a single texture.
rpgmapbuilder.com - the site will be incoming. Bookmark that shit and check back in a few weeks. I'll keep reposting here as I make strides towards alpha/beta. I'll be needing testers.
I'll look into it - definitely not on the top of my list as key map features. But I would definitely like to be able to use a good terrain elevation system in my games, so I'll definitely be looking into it.
Thanks for the support, all. You've definitely reinvigorated development. I can't wait to get a website up and get this thing closer to alpha for testing. That'll be pretty big since I need to make sure it runs well on all sorts of devices.
Bonus screenie - Room 7 from Sunless Citadel. (D&D 3.0) Now I'm off to work to keep the electricity on.
Easy networking i.e. no manual IP entry or whatever, simple like steam's "Join game" option
Custom sheets with scripts (HTML and JS would make excellent candidates)
Character detail saved in an easily modifiable non-binary formated like JSON or XML.
Easy asset importing and pen tools to draw things with like roll20
Some kind of youtube/soundcloud asset integration would be nice but nonessential. Music IS pretty key on the whole I find.
>Easy networking i.e. no manual IP entry or whatever, simple like steam's "Join game" option
This would require a central-server, which in and of itself isn't a big problem, but I'm curious to ask on why you seem to think that "manual IP entry or whatever" is hard? Is it always console-gaming kiddies that want the central-servers?
>open source would be freakin' sick
Since he's using GM, he may not have a choice on that matter.
One of the reasons I use r20 over maptool despite better functionality of the latter is browser integration which makes things much easier, cleaner and by the virtue of www standards avoided bloated interface mtool sports.
>huge pain in the ass to deal with ports and suchlike
I honestly don't understand this. I've been visiting LAN-parties since the late 90's and I've never had "huge pains". You guys must be doing something fundamentally wrong.
It doesn't matter what your network is, because everything always comes down to "port forwarding". Something which, in my opinion, hasn't been an issue for the past 15-20 years. I honestly don't get it? Kiddies speak of "just joining" and "having lobbies", and I'm always baffled by their problems.
I will have a simple LAN games lobby that lists local games, but see >>45301437 for why that's beyond the scope of this project. As I've stated, the project was mainly meant to supplement in-person games.
Character sheets are not within the scope either - I'm really trying to focus on a great virtual map rather than an entire communications system. That said, it might be functionality down the road. And I would definitely use something like JSON or XML to save character/monster index data.
Not doing youtube/soundcloud integration.
It's not going to be open source. If down the road it looks like a lot can be done to improve it and I don't want to do it, I'll likely release the GM source. (Which would require whoever wants to work on it to actually own a copy of GM:S). Also..."making it render isometric" isn't a moddable feature...that would require reprogramming the whole thing and at that point my source code is roughly useless.
Would there be an option to output a single combined view of all the players? They could have all their individual devices, but something like a spectator mode or something. We were considering a projector or TV built into a table, so that everyone could see where they were all at once. The lines of sight would be weird, probably would need to combine all of them, but you would have each individual's device to find out what they could actually see.
I like yall a lot, so I've uploaded a demo to mess with. I'm sure it has plenty of bugs, but the LAN should work and it demos the line of sight system and the baked lighting system.
It's just uploaded as a zip on the main website directory here: http://rpgmapbuilder.com/
If anyone wants to test it out and let me know if the networking works, please do. It auto-connects to 127.0.0.1, so it's just LAN. Also, if you notice any graphical errors with the lighting let me know. Yes, I know the lighting disappears if you minimize it because I don't have any surface saving when the video ram loads something else - you can re-render it for now by just moving the players.
Also, the GM normally wouldn't have the player line of sight, but I left it in just in case the client doesn't connect with the host.
Don't yell at me for bugs. I've got too many to count in my head already.
http://rpgmapbuilder.com/ then just download the zip in the main directory.
I also notice there's no pathing yet for moving across tiles, which is important for traps.
But if you don't want to code in pathing, you could probably just allow sequential movement before requiring GM approval, right?
Download the demo from the website and let me know what you think/whether the networking is working: http://rpgmapbuilder.com/
No, you're mistaken. There's definitely no light baking (the cool lighting effects you see here) and the line of sight in the premium edition must be added by hand. My engine generates the shadowcasters but still allows the DM to adjust them.
I had this in an earlier version using a cone for vision. It's as simple as using a different sprite for the player character's vision caster. But, this was stupidly aggravating for combat. I'll probably just leave it open as a changeable texture so if your DM wants to use it, he can just upload a cone texture to use for vision.
Pathing is something I've been hesitant to add...I really wanted to emulate the pick up the token/place it. But, now that I've got the whole lighting system I'm thinking it might be pretty nice to have. I know how to program a solid A* pathing system, so this won't be too difficult to add.
Like I said $5-$10 - just enough to keep the website rolling.
If the thread dies, you can always email me to get updates until the website is up: [email protected]
so is this only going to come pre-packed with fantasy tokens and tiles or will you also have some sci-fi and cyberpunk style tokens and tiles too?
I know that's probably a "later down the line" thing to ask and would probably mean more work but I'm curious to see what you plan to have for the user "out of the box" in terms of variety
I'll be providing free updates as I develop artwork for it. Though, likely the initial release will just be fantasy. That said, the import functions will allow you to use whatever textures you want, so you would just need to find them elsewhere to import. I know there are tons of talented artists making tokens in other genres.
>talented artists making tokens in other genres
Can you name some of these projects? I wrote earlier in this thread, that I've occasionally mused about creating a similar kind of software, but one of the problems I'd face is the graphics.
Now, a popular project would probably encourage art-people to join, but to become popular, you kinda need graphics to begin with...
See immortal nights as an example.
I did have a plan for this. My idea was to have an online database of tokens created by users that could be downloaded by the map client. No plan on making it an actual market; just free stuff. Then I could pay artists with whatever profits I make from the software to make some cool token packs to upload. That way there's no cost to the user and everyone gets high quality tokens and textures. Thoughts?
I main as a graphics artist, so I can definitely create some cool tokens.
Yeah. So allow user submissions and have some sort of "like" or point system so the good assets can be filtered to the top. And then I'll commission some professional stuff from the profits of the map tool and put those on the asset database for free.