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LAN Virtual Tabletop
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You are currently reading a thread in /tg/ - Traditional Games

Thread replies: 114
Thread images: 22
Greetings /tg/,

I am working on a virtual tabletop setup/map builder and I am looking for feedback/input as to what you would want to see in something like this.

I know there are plenty out there, but none of them had decent map making/control schemes that I enjoyed.

Current Features:
**LAN networking between GM host (controls entire board) and player clients (can request player movements)
**Full line of sight system for as many player characters as wanted
**Lightmap rendering and baking - this makes the light casting static, but renderable on low-end machines (including my Note II android)
**moving and rotating of PCs and baddies

Most likely, I'll just end up releasing it for chump change (enough to cover web hosting) but without DRM, so that means free for you. Arr!

In any case, let me know what you think/what you would like to see in a virtual tabletop. This is mostly for play over a LAN system and merely used to display complicated maps rather than have to constantly put together those cardboard squares.

~Ronaldo
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>>45279342
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>>45279342
More...
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>>45279342
Final.
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>>45279342
Also, works cross platform. So, the players can play on an Android tablet/iPad whatever and the DM can control from laptop.
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>>45279342
Im guessing the scope doesn't include isotropic view? How do you differentiate height levels? Is it possible to code in which squares can be travelled/attacked?
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This looks nice, tell me more about it. Shadows look better than r20.

Why not make it browser-based?
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>>45279532
It is purely top-down - I didn't want to complicate the rendering with isometric. Much more computing. And yes - disabling squares is already working - currently it's only enabled on other unit tokens.

>>45279546
It can run via browser, but it's difficult to program for WebGL and work with all browsers/version. So, it'll take a lot of tinkering to get it to work via browser, but definitely workable. (see attached for the lovely webGL glitches)
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>>45279342
>In any case, let me know what you think/what you would like to see in a virtual tabletop. This is mostly for play over a LAN system and merely used to display complicated maps rather than have to constantly put together those cardboard squares.
I'd like to know whether you'll test it extensively over Hamachi. RPTool is kind of punishing and doesn't look even remotely as good, so this would be quite relevant to my interests.
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>>45279647
Have not extensively tested over Hamachi...the real purpose isn't to allow distance play - just to have a nice complex map to work with in person (and nice touch screen controls so that the players can move their tokens).

That said...it should work just fine over Hamachi. You can always port forward as well.
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>>45279342
Just Bumping with a list of planned features that I could think of off the top of my head:
*Import custom tokens
*Import custom map placeables (also able to attach lighting walls to them)
*Import custom terrain textures and paint onto background
*Save maps and share with your friends/online
*Export maps to a .png image that can be printed or used with your own Virtual Tabletop system
*Area of effect casters that interact with walls like the lighting does so you can test area of effect spells (circles, cones, rays, etc)
*Chat system for long-distance play.
*Damage monitoring for units so players can tell at a glance how much damage they've accumulated to each baddie
*baddies with larger 2x2, 3x3, etc bases
*interactive objects like:
*****doors that open/close
*****chests that open close
*****levers/traps that are invisible until activated
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>>45279342
Animation showing the lighting/moving in action
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>>45279342
>He doesn't know Roll20 already exists.
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>>45280593
second'ed
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>>45280593
Have tried roll 20 - not impressed. I'll give it's an impressive toolkit, but it doesn't fit my needs and I'm guessing a lot of other people's. Two biggest reasons for me:

1) the map making in r20 is non-existent. You must rely on outside sources to build/steal maps.
2) there is no light baking/automatic line of sight generation
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>>45280773
>Both of these

Allright mang you got good intentions

I mostly just use free drawing to do maps, it would be nice if you could keep that in there so quick edits can be made on the fly

I understand your desire for a tool with more design elements, Most of my DMing has been done with a tablet and laptop infront of a table and this sounds like it would help.

Best of luck!
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Roll 20 does have line of sight though.
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Physics-based dice rolling, where you can roll 3D dice on top of the map to get a result.

Because fuck you guys, I like seeing dice roll.
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>>45279342
>>45280398
>>45280593
>>45280773
>Maptool actually does do all of this, except exporting as .png instead of a maptool file.
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Maptool is shit and has never worked.
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http://pyromancers.com/dungeon-painter-online/

This is probably the most intuitive dungeon mapper I've found and you should definitely crib from it.

Being able to draw walls as lines (and have them seamlessly connect) is a must.
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>>45280858
What I mean is that it must be hand drawn on - with mine, you place the tiles/map assets and the line of sight walls are automatically generated. You can obviously edit these after they are generated in case you want to manually change it.

>>45280836
Thanks - I'll probably include a whiteboard like feature so that the DM can draw on the map for the players to see. Also, the map assets can be added on the fly as well. here's the baddie adding ui currently.

>>45280897
I'm intending to supplement an in-person game. Don't really want to replace that.

>>45280907
See >>45280937

>>45280965
Yeah - this is going to be my base for actually building the map. Of all the toolkits, this was my favorite. But it still lacked a lot in the department of generating lighting for the map.
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>>45281001
>I'm intending to supplement an in-person game. Don't really want to replace that.

Fair enough.

Could you add an option to view cover as well as line of sight? Maybe a toggle or something. Basically, the d20/5E rule where you draw lines from a corner to see how much cover a creature has.
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>>45281001
>>45279342
Preview of terrain painting
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>>45281121
This is one of the things that I think I will definitely include. That and an area of effect stamp that gives each tile a % of cover calculation. Still not entirely sure how I'll do some of those calculations, but I'm sure I can figure it out.
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>>45281166
You had my interest, but now you have my attention.
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What about elevation differences? Seems hard to do with top-down.
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>>45281166
Alright you have something now.
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>>45281354
Yeah - this is outside of the scope of the toolkit. Had an idea to do isometric, but I couldn't do decent light rendering that works on all platforms. That and, I'm kinda oldschool and like the top down grid. Pic attached was my isometric attempt that I gave up on. It was also nuts dealing with players behind high altitude bits of terrain.
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>>45281433
Will there be layers and an option for showing/hiding layers? That's all I'd need for elevation.

Layer effects (transparency, shadow) would be nice too.
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>>45281634
Hmm - layers could work. Conceptually I can parent all the objects/tiles to a parent layer and adjust rendering based on that. That's a potential.

As far as transparency, and shadows, yes, of course.
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>>45279342
Also - current look at the map editor. It's still a work in progress, but the goal is really easy to use and quick to actually create maps. Still working on importing this into the current map renderer, so it looks a bit different, but this is how it'll work for generating maps.
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>>45282083
Dude, thats pretty sexy.
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>>45282083
That seems snazzy.

So you can draw stuff out then remove parts of it, and It Just Works?

I like to do a lot of map-making by reduction, but most of these tools only let you delete the whole room, the whole wall, whatever. It's one of the big problems with Pyromancers.
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>>45282147 >>45282118
Thanks. And yes; I couldn't stand the fact that all the map editors didn't work intuitively. For every tool, left click adds and right click subtracts. So, here, you can just left click to add a room square, right click to remove a square. Then, when you're set on what it should look like, you move to the wall edit tool and add/subtract walls a grid-line at a time. Hold shift and right click and you can knock out an entire wall segment. When I finish integrating this sucker, you'll be able to draw polygonal rooms as well and knock out grid size sections of that.
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>>45282238
That sounds great.

How about randomized tiles as well as repeating ones? The Pyromancers Dungeon Painter does something like this.

Also these assets look nice. Please team up with Dyson or Mike Schley or someone. I'd pay good money (well, SOME money) for an asset pack that lets me do maps in their style.
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>>45282238
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>>45279342
This is fucking sweet and I need it in my life.

How much dev work is left in it would you reckon? It looks pretty solid and Id love to have it myself
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>>45282804
Few months before an alpha with all core functions; a solid 6 mo after alpha to polish it for beta. Then another couple months to polish for release.

Have registered rpgmapbuilder.com if you wanna follow for later. No website yet, but it'll be up whenever I get around to it.
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>>45282924
I'll look forward to being able to get it and give you my money, good sir.
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>>45283004
Much obliged. Good to know there's at least some support for actually finishing this as a viable product. Price is definitely going to be low - thinking like $5-10 for a permanent license to all future versions and for each platform (pc, android, iOS). No DRM, so if you're strapped for cash, there will always be a pirated version somewhere as well.
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>>45279342
Don't fucking waste a single second on voice protocal. Jesus christ, just don't bother devoting even one minute to any audio input or output other than a bleep for the gui. No audio. No voice. Don't do it. It's a gigantic waste of your time, and they all sink resources into it, and then every uses skype and teamspeak anyhow. You've got mp3 streaming? Wow, because I forgot that I have a fucking computer.
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>>45283148
Sound out man. Im hoping to have finally found stable employment by then so I'll set aside part of a paycheck for that.

Either way, Im looking forward to seeing how it works out. Godpseed man
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>>45283209
Roger. Never intended to include that. Probably will include minimal audio feedback for the GUI interactions, but nothing other than that.

>>45283244
Cheers.
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How do those 3D pillars work, exactly? Will there be 3D objects?
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>>45283346
Nothing is 3d. I want as many devices to be able to run this sucker; that and 2d art is so much easier to create. I wanted something ordinary Joes would be able to add their own content to.

As far as how they work, they are just a circular shadow caster. This shit was fun to program. I learned about and then utilized Thales theorem to calculate the shadow casting angles...but that's probably not what you're asking.
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>>45283427
>Stripped down, 2d, multi-platform, non-browser based tabletop
If you tell me it's not in Java? You'll be my hero.
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>>45283469
Using GM:S IDE, so it compiles in C++. gtfo with that java bullshit.
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Nice to see someone developing a software like that. I've often thought about doing something similar myself too, but always ended up against it, because I don't really play online anyway.

Do you have a website for your stuff? Keep it up!
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>>45283543
I dunno what GM:S IDE is, but I like the part where java makes you angry.
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>>45283543
>GM

As in, Game Maker?

Man, that program has come a long way.
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>>45283548
rpgmapbuilder.com - nothing up yet, but soon to be

I never play online - don't like the player-player player-dm interactions. This tool is to supplement my in-person game sessions - I'm currently using it to run Sunless citadel. I DM from my laptop and control the baddies; the players play on an android tablet and move their player tokens via the touchscreen.

We also project the player's screen on a 30 in tv so it's easier to see the play screen.

So far, the feedback has been all good.

>>45283570
Never got much into Java because of the poor graphics driver integration - everything "looked" like it was programmed in java and that made me rage quit to another language.

>>45283658
Yeah - it's GM:Studio now. They even have their YYC which compiles everything in C++. Shit is blazing fast and compiles on every platform.
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>>45279342
Doors added. Light isn't updated real-time so that it works well on tablets and lower end devices.
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Goddamn this thing is pretty neat, have you considered adding hexes in the future?
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>>45285055
Would require reworking the map editor a good deal, but it's not off the table - perhaps a later version, yeah.
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>>45285134
I'm sure that's the case, and could be awesome, overworld maps could be interesting with your editor
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>>45279342

Sadness it's not hex

>>45281433

So elevation isn't a thing, at least not depicted

Could you put in a tac overlay, basically a colored tint to ID what's higher or lower?

Another idea: the GM can adjust the lightlevels for characters individually. So someone is someone is blinded the can't see anything, or if someone has dark vision the GM can lessen shadows.
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>>45285160 >>45285258
hard coded in some hex stuff to show the hex people some love and to show how flexible the system is.

Some sort of overlay wouldn't be hard to do - could even cash shadows on lower elevation to help with the look of it.
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>>45285591
Goddamn senpai, that looks so hot. Good job so far
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>>45285591
Here's a question. Will there be/is there a print function for people who want to transfer things to and from pencil-and-paper to digital? I mean, besides just hitting PrintScreen and pasting it into whatever.
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>>45286448
Yeah, a scale + png export function would be nice.
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>>45281166
>>45282083
mmmmm, sweet

>>45284918
don't forget door-triggered traps!

And, I suppose, traps that you can set off with 10 foot pole/thrown items.

>>45283689
bookmarked
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>>45280398
For larger baddies, it is possible to split them into "components" that get destroyed as you damage them, or enable them to grow new ones that change their size?

Although I suppose for the standard "mutate into a giant", you can just replace the token with a bigger one.
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>>45286448
Yes - hence the export to .png function I mentioned. I really love printing so some nice 11x17 pages to cut together for my players. So this is a must.

>>45289373
I've never used something this complicated in all of my tabletop experience. Perhaps that's something outside of the DnD/Pathfinder universe. No plans for this.
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>>45291622
I wasn't trying to complicate things. At it's base, it's just a matter of making positioning a dynamic mechanic.
>2x2 creature
>All outer surfaces resist physical damage
>If you destroy one "fourth" of the creature, it is removed from the model, revealing the sides that are vulnerable to physical damage.

or

>A 4x1 wall creature is now a 3x1 creature, allowing you to run past it before it crushes you into the end of the hall
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>>45291743
Best represented by 4 individual tokens
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Give me programmable dice rolls and you have my attention. And my devotion if the dice roll format is lisp based.
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>>45291806
I guess so, assuming token shapes can be changed to look "attached" to other tokens.

I just don't think it's alright to be content with "improvised" setups so early in the game.
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Any plans for assignable Attributes for individual square/hex tiles? Trap/ trigger/ impassable/ slowing/ LoS blocking, etc?
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>>45292186
There are DM visible objects, yes.
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>>45291919
I think it's more important that he focus on essential features, rather than wasting time on a feature that only you are going to use.
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>>45281001
> Balsag
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>>45292474
The Sunless Citadel.
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>>45291919
That's not even improvised, that sounds like the all around best way to do what you described.
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>>45283209
This, if anything make it so it can support gif tokens if possible. The only thing I want out of roll20 is being able to have custom token animations that are linked to macros. Right now they only do it for built in fireball effects.
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>>45279342

Firstly, having used and abused pretty much every available digital map making tool, and run several games over skype through maptool and roll20 and anything else I could find because they all suck dick, I can't wait to see how this project develops.

Secondly as a developer myself, I know how much work goes into building a tool like this, so I fucking salute you. Good luck you glorious bastard.
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>>45283427
>something ordinary Joes would be able to add their own content to.

Are you telling me that you can add custom art for tiles and walls?
Your system looks really dynamic, with how the walls connect automatically, is it simple to make stuff for that?
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>>45279342
checked out this whole thread and I gotta say this is looking to be exactly what I have wanted to see in a virtual tabletop.
Will you be updating here often or is there another site we can keep an eye out for you on?
Perhaps where you will be releasing it?
I'd love to follow the project and would kill to get it as soon as you have it out for sale.
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>>45295862
He already mentioned a (soon-to-be) website here:
>>45283689
>rpgmapbuilder.com
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>>45296009
Ah shit thanks man you're a lifesaver. I feel like a fool.
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So, here's a way you could implement elevation. Hexographer has a feature where you can set the elevation of a hex, and the hex gets a border where half of it is a shade lighter, and the other half is a shade darker. You could do something similar, and have a tooltip that shows the elevation if you hover and hold a certain key.
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>>45296858
I think the main problem is how it affects vision and light levels.
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>>45295548
Gif tokens already supported - had an idea for allowing animation sets, but that would be a v2.0 kinda thing. Something along the lines of 'triggers' that cause certain animations to play.

>>45295706
Thanks bud - I'm finding the hardest part is developing an intuitive GUI...I'm putting my GUI development classes to good use, though.

>>45295790
Yeah - the importing of textures is easy. For the rooms, all they will have to import is a repeatable wall texture, a wall cap for corners, and a single (or multiple for variations) ground texture. For terrains it's just a single texture.

>>45295862
rpgmapbuilder.com - the site will be incoming. Bookmark that shit and check back in a few weeks. I'll keep reposting here as I make strides towards alpha/beta. I'll be needing testers.

>>45296858
I'll look into it - definitely not on the top of my list as key map features. But I would definitely like to be able to use a good terrain elevation system in my games, so I'll definitely be looking into it.

Thanks for the support, all. You've definitely reinvigorated development. I can't wait to get a website up and get this thing closer to alpha for testing. That'll be pretty big since I need to make sure it runs well on all sorts of devices.

Bonus screenie - Room 7 from Sunless Citadel. (D&D 3.0) Now I'm off to work to keep the electricity on.
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>>45279342
Easy networking i.e. no manual IP entry or whatever, simple like steam's "Join game" option

Custom sheets with scripts (HTML and JS would make excellent candidates)

Character detail saved in an easily modifiable non-binary formated like JSON or XML.

Easy asset importing and pen tools to draw things with like roll20

Some kind of youtube/soundcloud asset integration would be nice but nonessential. Music IS pretty key on the whole I find.
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>>45301248
I doubt you'll want to do this sadly, but open source would be freakin' sick. If you can't implement an isometric renderer well I'm sure someone can.
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>>45301248
>Easy networking i.e. no manual IP entry or whatever, simple like steam's "Join game" option
This would require a central-server, which in and of itself isn't a big problem, but I'm curious to ask on why you seem to think that "manual IP entry or whatever" is hard? Is it always console-gaming kiddies that want the central-servers?

>>45301292
>open source would be freakin' sick
Since he's using GM, he may not have a choice on that matter.
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>>45301437
No, it's just a huge pain in the ass to deal with ports and suchlike without using a VLAN solution. And even then it's unreliable.
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>>45279643
One of the reasons I use r20 over maptool despite better functionality of the latter is browser integration which makes things much easier, cleaner and by the virtue of www standards avoided bloated interface mtool sports.
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>>45301584
Accessibility is key. I'm reasonably sure it's part of the reason rpgtools aren't really used.
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>>45301490
>huge pain in the ass to deal with ports and suchlike
I honestly don't understand this. I've been visiting LAN-parties since the late 90's and I've never had "huge pains". You guys must be doing something fundamentally wrong.
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>>45301711
Because on LAN, you don't need to worry about port forwarding bs because you're all on the same network
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>>45301759
It doesn't matter what your network is, because everything always comes down to "port forwarding". Something which, in my opinion, hasn't been an issue for the past 15-20 years. I honestly don't get it? Kiddies speak of "just joining" and "having lobbies", and I'm always baffled by their problems.
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Have any of you guys tried Google SketchUp? Or was it autodesk? Can't remember. Anyways, awesome and easy tool. Ven for 3D maps and shit.
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>>45301914
nothing wrong with lobbies m8, great invention

and you don't need to port forward on LAN. it doesn't work like that

ease of use = why roll20 is used over everything else
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>>45301248 >>45301490
I will have a simple LAN games lobby that lists local games, but see >>45301437 for why that's beyond the scope of this project. As I've stated, the project was mainly meant to supplement in-person games.

Character sheets are not within the scope either - I'm really trying to focus on a great virtual map rather than an entire communications system. That said, it might be functionality down the road. And I would definitely use something like JSON or XML to save character/monster index data.

Not doing youtube/soundcloud integration.

>>45301292>>45301437
It's not going to be open source. If down the road it looks like a lot can be done to improve it and I don't want to do it, I'll likely release the GM source. (Which would require whoever wants to work on it to actually own a copy of GM:S). Also..."making it render isometric" isn't a moddable feature...that would require reprogramming the whole thing and at that point my source code is roughly useless.
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>>45279342
It looks so good after the disappointment GMmapcrafter was. Don't hurt me like they did.
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Would there be an option to output a single combined view of all the players? They could have all their individual devices, but something like a spectator mode or something. We were considering a projector or TV built into a table, so that everyone could see where they were all at once. The lines of sight would be weird, probably would need to combine all of them, but you would have each individual's device to find out what they could actually see.
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>>45279342
Where the fuck is a trial website I can bookmark, you glorious fucker.
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>>45311011
For the umpteenth time, no website built yet but it will be later
>rpgmapbuilder.com
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>>45279342
>>45311540
>>45311011
>>45308996
>>45306496
I like yall a lot, so I've uploaded a demo to mess with. I'm sure it has plenty of bugs, but the LAN should work and it demos the line of sight system and the baked lighting system.

It's just uploaded as a zip on the main website directory here: http://rpgmapbuilder.com/

If anyone wants to test it out and let me know if the networking works, please do. It auto-connects to 127.0.0.1, so it's just LAN. Also, if you notice any graphical errors with the lighting let me know. Yes, I know the lighting disappears if you minimize it because I don't have any surface saving when the video ram loads something else - you can re-render it for now by just moving the players.

Also, the GM normally wouldn't have the player line of sight, but I left it in just in case the client doesn't connect with the host.

Don't yell at me for bugs. I've got too many to count in my head already.

http://rpgmapbuilder.com/ then just download the zip in the main directory.
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>>45315064
Nice, i'll have to check this out
>>
Dude holy shit this is awesome, How can I help you test this?
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>>45280773
>2) there is no light baking/automatic line of sight generation
If you pay per month, there is. Only the DM needs to pay for it to be enabled.
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>>45315064
Hmm, so facing doesn't affect line of sight? Should it?
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>>45315064
I also notice there's no pathing yet for moving across tiles, which is important for traps.

But if you don't want to code in pathing, you could probably just allow sequential movement before requiring GM approval, right?
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>>45283148

Keep it below $15 and you've got a sale here.

Does cross platform include linux as the GM host?
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>>45316142
Download the demo from the website and let me know what you think/whether the networking is working: http://rpgmapbuilder.com/

>>45316276
No, you're mistaken. There's definitely no light baking (the cool lighting effects you see here) and the line of sight in the premium edition must be added by hand. My engine generates the shadowcasters but still allows the DM to adjust them.

>>45316840
I had this in an earlier version using a cone for vision. It's as simple as using a different sprite for the player character's vision caster. But, this was stupidly aggravating for combat. I'll probably just leave it open as a changeable texture so if your DM wants to use it, he can just upload a cone texture to use for vision.

>>45316867
Pathing is something I've been hesitant to add...I really wanted to emulate the pick up the token/place it. But, now that I've got the whole lighting system I'm thinking it might be pretty nice to have. I know how to program a solid A* pathing system, so this won't be too difficult to add.

>>45317873
Like I said $5-$10 - just enough to keep the website rolling.

If the thread dies, you can always email me to get updates until the website is up: [email protected]
>>
so is this only going to come pre-packed with fantasy tokens and tiles or will you also have some sci-fi and cyberpunk style tokens and tiles too?

I know that's probably a "later down the line" thing to ask and would probably mean more work but I'm curious to see what you plan to have for the user "out of the box" in terms of variety
>>
>>45319741
I'll be providing free updates as I develop artwork for it. Though, likely the initial release will just be fantasy. That said, the import functions will allow you to use whatever textures you want, so you would just need to find them elsewhere to import. I know there are tons of talented artists making tokens in other genres.
>>
File: 1425276726859.jpg (5 MB, 1500x2883) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1425276726859.jpg
5 MB, 1500x2883
>>45320475
>talented artists making tokens in other genres
Can you name some of these projects? I wrote earlier in this thread, that I've occasionally mused about creating a similar kind of software, but one of the problems I'd face is the graphics.

Now, a popular project would probably encourage art-people to join, but to become popular, you kinda need graphics to begin with...
>>
>>45320680
>>45320680
See immortal nights as an example.

I did have a plan for this. My idea was to have an online database of tokens created by users that could be downloaded by the map client. No plan on making it an actual market; just free stuff. Then I could pay artists with whatever profits I make from the software to make some cool token packs to upload. That way there's no cost to the user and everyone gets high quality tokens and textures. Thoughts?

I main as a graphics artist, so I can definitely create some cool tokens.
>>
>>45321180
so something like a middle ground between something like steam workshop and something like the roll20 market?

user/artist submitted resources are always nice.
>>
>>45321384
Yeah. So allow user submissions and have some sort of "like" or point system so the good assets can be filtered to the top. And then I'll commission some professional stuff from the profits of the map tool and put those on the asset database for free.
>>
>>45321501

Good idea
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