What would a sci-fi setting based on Eastern instead of Western

Is this just going to be a weekly question from now on?

>>45269651
implying eastern culture would ever reach the stars on its own.

Having lived in Commieland (and ex-Commieland) for a good portion of my life and now living in Canada, I will tell you this: not much different. Travel enough, and you eventually realize that "culture" is not a big deal.

Martials turn into Psychics at high levels.
There are probably other details to the setting, but maybe there aren't.
(I haven't checked)
That's all I've got.

>>45269674
Are you jelly you can't make popular threads like me? I was thinking of making it a general, maybe starting a Twitter so people will know when the next one comes up, I dunno

le every day til you like it

stay mad fag

>>45269651
Depends on how far east you're talking about. Because we've got Dune for all our space-Ottoman needs.

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>>45269791

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>>45269786
>Martials turn into Psychics at high levels
this
think tokusatsu series like Kamen Rider and Guyver, which have armors and guns powered by the fighting spirit of the users (besides of a good dose of alien/demon tech)

>>45269781
>Travel enough, and you eventually realize that "culture" is not a big deal.

If you wander about like a shallow tourist in a bubble, perhaps. Once you get involved with local people, it's apparent that humans are diverse, not homogeneous. Cultural coevolution is a thing.

>>45270268
>Cultural coevolution is a thing

So are slavery and cannibalism or, as freshman sociologists put it, rich cultural diversity. Ex:

SciFi based on Eastern "culture" would look bankrupt, threadbare, desperate and smell of cabbage and vodka. tl;dr:

Stanisław Lem

>>45270870
What about East Asia and/or India?

>>45270890
The same, but it would smell like curry and shit instead of cabbage and vodka.

>>45270890
You mean that Hindu mythology isn't sci-fi as it is? What with deities fighting each other with nuclear weapons, UFOs and shit?

>>45271477
Not to mention shitting in actual toilets sometimes.

>>45270090 I was more thinking of WuXia and XianXia stories, but that works too.

>>45269651
If it was written by an American it would be Star Wars with lightkatanas made out of glorious nippon crystals and more samurai and bushido.

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The Elder Scrolls is basically a sci-fi Hindu universe. It just looks vaguely European on the surface, in certain places.

>>45269818
nice /v/ meme

>>45271912
>>45270964
>>45269739
i love the /pol/ memes

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>>45269651

I think there is a company currently making this. They were on here a few moths back talking about it. Infinite Odyssey I think it was. At least part of the game was all about eastern shit, didn't seem very anime styled either. Wonder what happened to them?

>>45270890
India… well, I dare say castes systems in space. Not unlikely, given almost any theoretical model of a colony ship's length of transit and the right conditions. The cultural model is a very stable one, even if monstrously unfair.

Lessee, let's say an Easern culture, such as India since they are one of the largest and could be, if economies shift a little (accident, war, collapse, what have you) one of the wealthiest nations on Earth. India has and will continue to have a HUUUGE population problem, even given any scenario where the planetary population is reduced by natural means, India still probably has two tenths of the total. India /is/ still legally a democracy, and they really do try, it's just that nearly, what, three-bordering-four thousand years of a religiously and politically dominant upper social class doesn't just go away.

>>45269651
The Mandate, features a space Russian Empire.

>ITT Commie culture is Eastern
This triggers my vodka.

OT: it would not differ much from Western. Difference in culture comes from difference in context of life - technology level, economic situation, climate et cetera. Space conquest implies a certain technological and economical level of society, which will reflect greatly on culture. Basically what >45269739 said but with less /pol: a star-faring Eastern culture would be inevitable Westernized. Not because teh "white powah", but simply because Westernization is the simple outcome of adoption of certain technologies and means of production and the cultural shift that follows. Can't have rickshaws when available motorized transport. Can't have a culture of craftsmen when mass production. Can't have cutesy paper lanterns when electricity.

But if you want more flavor then well, go read Dune.

>>45269651
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Soviet_science_fiction_films
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Chinese_science_fiction_films
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_fiction_films_in_India
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Japanese_science_fiction_films

>>45276661
>Eastern culture
>Soviet_science_fiction_films
STOP WITH THIS SHIT YOU FAGGOTS WE FUCKING INVENTED SPACEFLIGHT YOU DON'T GET TO PILE US UP WITH POOINALOO AND SLANTEYES

>>45269651
If Russian, space communism and vodka.

If China, space communism and kung fu.

If India, space caste system and curry.

If Japan, space samurai and mechs.

>>45269651
>Eastern
Could you be more specific?
Much, much more specific?
There's a whole shitload of East.

>>45276692
>WE FUCKING INVENTED SPACEFLIGHT
Are you Nazi Germany?

>>45277558
Nazis never got into orbit.

>>45277717
They did however invent all of the tech needed for it, america just stole some of their best scientists and engineers in that area and threw money at them to get to the moon. Not to undermine the achievements of Americans, just that you did not create space-flight, just stole it from others.

A additional point Russians got something into orbit first. Therefore by your standards they created space-flight.

>>45269651
Gundam.

>>45271945
So, Star Wars

>>45277540
Oh come on. Asia can't be much bigger than Texas

>>45277962
Also the Nazis got the first man made object into space. Admittedly by accident.

V2 rocket went wrong and went straight upwards.

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>>45277962
>A additional point Russians got something into orbit first. Therefore by your standards they created space-flight.
Which is my entire point.

Never mind that Soviet sci-fi literature (Lem, Strugatsky brothers,Tolstoy, Belyaev, Efremov) is very close to Western sci-fi overall, except maybe a bit more anthropocentric. So there's no point in making a distinction between the two.

It's also pretty damn good. You should definitely read Lem and Strugatsky brothers if you're into sci-fi.

>>45278182
>maybe a bit more anthropocentric
What do you mean by that exactly?

It would have a heavier basis in science rather than high adventures of the west, at least on the surface and what most people would think of.

A massive sprawling bureaucracy that can accomplish great feats of science haphazardly and with occasional explosive flaws.

>>45272923
Are you familiar with this thing called "reality?"

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>>45278194
It could be said that the classic writers of Western sci-fi like Wells, Clarke, Asimov, Niven or Heinlein generally focused their works more on the scientific aspect in their fiction, anticipating technology and the setting it would bring the humanity into (ofc there are exceptions like Le Guin and Dick).

Meanwhile most of the Soviet classics use science fiction more like a background for philosophical argument on human nature, with new technologies, discoveries and marvels from beyond serving as mere means of uncovering the core of some conflict in our existence.

I guess it could be said that this makes Soviet sci-fi a bit more Eastern in nature, but the overall style and context in pretty much inseparable from Western works, since the two seeped into each other a lot through the XX century.

>>45277076
>If India, space caste system and curry.

For a change,but not setting based on the current reppublic? Considering Indian Repblic is basically what EU is but in Asia.(Look it up, each state has it's own language and culture).

>>45278410
>but not setting

*why not setting

>>45276661
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_fiction_films_in_India

Wish India had developed it's own flavor than copying capeshit from western /co/mics .

>>45276692
>east = asia
>east can't into space flight

So much denial going on here.

What was that fairly recent Chinese sci-fi novel that came up last time this was discussed?

>>45278514
Right after Hollywood stops taking foreign films, replacing all the characters with white ones and setting them in America.

>>45274005
>Can't have rickshaws when available motorized transport. Can't have a culture of craftsmen when mass production. Can't have cutesy paper lanterns when electricity.

All those things exist and are used in Western societies, though.

>>45278608
>All those things exist and are used in Western societies
Only as small exception for the cute of it, not en masse.

>>45274005
>Westernization is the simple outcome of adoption of certain technologies and means of production and the cultural shift that follows.

How western is China? Because they're sending shit to the moon while US has to hitch a ride from Russia to get into orbit? Or how about Japan? East is dominated by collectivist ideologies. Not all of it, but especially Asian countries have much more group mentality than the west. And that has nothing to do with their level of technology.

Thinking that you need to be western to go into space is the same sort of thinking that led people to believe that white man must be the center of the universe because we got boats and guns and no one else does.

>>45270870
>Not knowing the future soviets envisioned after Gagarin's flight.
Come on now.

>>45274005
They could hold on to more traditional things because they are not western. You saw this argument coming about a century earlier through toys of all things, with films trying to hold up traditional Chinese toys over factory-made western style ones.

>>45278732
>How western is China
It's quite conflicted at the moment.

>Because they're sending shit to the moon while US has to hitch a ride from Russia to get into orbit
All their rocket shit is adopted Russian tech with changed names though, and the effort is only made for the sake of national prestige of which the US has a plenty, so NASA sticks to the cheaper option. You don't have to prove anything to anyone in space - we've done a plenty of proving to each other in the last 50 years. China is just ready to flush down money to feel all grown up and in da club with all the kewl kids.

>Or how about Japan
Definitely Western. How they bow and how they eat doesn't matter shit when their economy is ran entirely by international capital.

>East is dominated by collectivist ideologies
We Russians are very much collectivists, yet still definitely Western in anything but political opposition to the current united West.

>Thinking that you need to be western to go into space
I didn't say that "you need to be western to go into space". Only that going to space requires a certain level of technology, and implementing said technology leaves very little of the traditional culture of any kind, replacing it with the model that is called Western for no other reasons than West adopting it first.

>>45278826
>They could hold on to more traditional things
No they couldn't. Economy > ideology. The basic requirements of survival in the contemporary capitalistic society completely steamroll any traditions and cultural differences beyond minor quirks, replacing them with values that are more or less universal for today's world.

>>45278402
More people shit in toilets in India than live in the UK. They're a nuclear armed state, and have an active space program.

>>45269651
What do you mean by Eastern? Your picture features Russia, which is still white, European and Christian, and just about the closest thing to the West on this planet. Surely it would be a more interesting conversation if it was about nations like China?

>>45279034
Probably more than live in the USA.

>>45278922
>You don't have to prove anything to anyone

Well why is Russia trying to be a cool guy again? You already were on top, who are you trying to impress? Just lay low and let smaller nations waste their resources being cool instead.

>Definitely Western. How they bow and how they eat doesn't matter shit when their economy is ran entirely by international capital.

Capitalism is not a culture nor a way of life.

>definitely Western

I want you to travel past the Urals and still claim you're in the west.

>I didn't say that "you need to be western to go into space". Only that going to space requires a certain level of technology, and implementing said technology leaves very little of the traditional culture of any kind, replacing it with the model that is called Western for no other reasons than West adopting it first.

Ever think that maybe west used and developed the technology in a way that suited their needs and way of life, rather than the technology turning their world into what we now know as the west?

Gunpowder didn't cause China or Japan to become similar to (late) medieval Europe. Several nations have had wooden boats with sails, but they'd used them in their own ways and made them in their own style. If the technology needed for making big wooden ships with sails and cannons, or gunpowder and muskets, did not lead to two nations on the opposite sides of the world to become more uniformal, why would space technology?

Hell, you'd think that with space exploration and long isolation in inhospitable environment, more eastern, collectivist way of life and group being more important than the individual would be more prevalent than western individualism.

>>45279034
>More people shit in toilets in India than live in the UK.

And how many more shit on the streets?

>They're a nuclear armed state

So's North Korea. So they're at least as good as North Korea.

>>45279385
>And how many more shit on the streets?
More than you can imagine, but you couldn't imagine a hundred million either.

>So's North Korea. So they're at least as good as North Korea.
Korea has nuclear devices worse than the nuclear devices America had in the fucking late 50s. They don't have a total megaton yield between all their weapons exceeding 0.5. India has modern ICBMs. It's not really the same thing.

>>45269651
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LucBfR1w6Y

Romance of the Three Kingdoms, in space

The Celestial Bureaucracy is made up of nigh immortal techno gods who've taken special potions and augmentations to draw sustenance from the universe and can be replaced by a worthy human every now and again.

Wondering drunks who hitch a ride on freighters and teach people their kung-fu and wondering hero swordsmen with blades made out of star metals.

>>45279367
>Well why is Russia trying to be a cool guy again?
To try and stay relevant.

>Capitalism is not a culture nor a way of life.
Right. Its a broad economic system that defines the very context for any culture or way of life. What is possible under pre-capitalist system is impossible under capitalism, and vice-versa.

>I want you to travel past the Urals and still claim you're in the west.
Novosibirsk-kun reporting in, kek. We're not any less Western culturally just because of some geography.

> Ever think that maybe west used and developed the technology in a way that suited their needs and way of life, rather than the technology turning their world into what we now know as the west?
As per Adam Smith, David Ricardo and Karl Motherfucking Marx, the means of production dictate the social formations, not vice versa.

>Gunpowder didn't cause China or Japan to become similar to medieval Europe
In fact Sengoku Jidai Japan was pretty similar to Europe of feudal fragmentation.

>Several nations have had wooden boats with sails, but they'd used them in their own ways and made them in their own style
Style was different, yes. Use? Not so much. Does fish behave itself much different in Yellow and Black seas, so that it must be caught in different way?

>If the technology needed for making big wooden ships with sails and cannons
Eastern nations did not posses the technology for manufacturing efficient artillery until much, MUCH later.

>in inhospitable environment, more eastern, collectivist way of life and group being more important than the individual would be more prevalent than western individualism.
On the first stages of space conquest - yes, of course. That is why said first stages were conducted under the of military leadership of US and SU, and not by private enterprise or corporate interest. And similarly will be conducted a plenty more. Aldo it's the reason Soviets won the start of the space race.

>>45279729
>To try and stay relevant
More like because Putin wants to bring back the cold war when he had great party times as kgb agent

ITT, an American argues with a Russian about what Russian culture is like in a 100% unironic way

I love my country its so adorable

>>45269674
Or was like two weeks ago, I think.

Anyway, I like this thread, it's fun to look through the culture lense.

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>>45269651
You ever played Asura's Wrath?

>>45279892
>Dat art

Dick status : Full

>>45279824
Putin can have great party times as it is - he's unchallenged in power here. But he also understands that global power > world's oldest gas station, so he tries to keep Motherland at least somewhat of a former. It also doesn't really boil down to him and his ambitions - there is a lot of that collectivist angle here that may be hard for you to grasp.

>>45279857
Be proud of it - this sort of willful ignorance is part of what made your people what you are today, and that is not something to fuck with.

>>45278408
Heinlin and Aasimov was all about sociology and philosophy.

iRobot was a bunch of philosophical questions posed as logic gate arguments.

>>45280013
*world's COLDEST gas station

>>45280026
>Heinlin and Aasimov was all about sociology and philosophy
Yes, but theirs is a philosophy of what transcends man, not focuses on him. Dick would be a better example, if he had less drugs in his writing.

>>45280013
Oh I am kind of proud of it. that's just so America though. It's cute

Why do we have to fight Russia senpai why can't we just hold hands and burn arabs like old times

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>>45269651
Here's something that might help.

>>45279892
No

>>45280065
It's been years since I read them, so I'll go back to compare.

TPS reports for you in the morning.

>>45280082
Kebab is weak. We are the only worthy opponents for each other. In opposing one another our peoples define themselves and grow stronger. Without this conflict we forget who we are and grow decadent, and there lies oblivion.

>>45280162
What about Canada

We could always fight Canada instead

Or invade mexico

>>45280162
This is sith ideology in its pure.

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>>45280223
Certainly. And how much of jedi could you be without an Evil Empire to oppose? Case in point: the Republic in prequels.

Russians are grim, suspicious, dour, rugged and industrious. They are also very squat. They are dwarves

Americans are ambitious, sometimes stupid and lazy, exemplary, and individualistic. They are humans

Western Europes are advanced, much ancient history, bygone glory, lush lands, perhaps decadent and corrupt. they are elves, being invades by outsiders

Africans are Orks. Do not argue. Darfur.

What are the Arabs though. Devils maybe because le but that is silly. What is organized race of religious fanatics.

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>>45280402
Arabs are drow. We are orcs. Do not argue that.

>>45278514
>capeshit
Go back to Tumblr with your buzzwords.

>>45279619
rendezvous with rama

>>45280013
What's with his antigay thing, is that Russian et al, or is it a smaller group pushing that angle?

What about Belarus and Chechnia? Last I heard Russia still wanted to be only slavs, with Ukrainian buffer zone + testing ground.

>>45280133
Nigga go fucking play it now

>>45284518
>What's with his antigay thing, is that Russian et al, or is it a smaller group pushing that angle
Most Russians plainly don't care about homosexuality in general, but the disdain towards the Pride movement is damn universal. And meanwhile a small number of government freaks tries to go full apeshit on gays - like member of Petersburg duma Vitaliy Milonov. That one is straight out insane about his proposals - like, they START at "Make homosexuality a heavy crime". Probably does it mostly for scandalous exposure though.

As the result - media is full of clowning around the issue, government has thrown out the "No Gay Propaganda Law" (forbidding bright displays of homosexuality in public places) and most of the populace just doesn't care as there are more pressing issues - like the damn trade sanctions WHERE'S MY FUCKING CHEESE I WANT MY FRENCH CHEESE SOOKA BLYAT and ruble plummeting down, but they are glad that "Oy now that we have this law there will be no more damn homo parades".

>What about Belarus and Chechnia
Belarus is our one strategic and military ally. Lukashenko is THE exemplar dictator in the world ATM, dancing with all the Europe and playing referee about the whole Ukraine issue. But as long as he remains in power Belarus will remain adamantly pro-Russian in it's policies, and that will be quite a long time still.

>Chechnia
It's currently an all-but-in-name Monarchy of Ramzan Kadyrov, the kebab whom Putin bough back in Yeltsin times to betray Johar Dudaev and remove all the separatist Ichkerian kebab. He's Putin's #1 loyal lapdog, and for that Putin gives him Chechnya to rule unchallenged, plus hefty financial aid from Moscow. "Son of a bitch, but our son of a bitch". As the result, all the Ichkeryan swine kebab was REMOVED with extreme prejudice, and Chechnya population is nearly 100% supportive of Putin policy on the federal level.

>>45284518
(cont)
> Last I heard Russia still wanted to be only slavs
Russia never was purely slavs. Not since XI century at least. It's only about 80% slav at the moment. The only guys harping on about "Russia for Russians" and "Russian national state" are literal neo-nazis, and Putin's policy is VERY strongly against them, with displays of racism towards the non-slavic peoples of Russia easily landing people in prison for quite awhile (the infamous Article 282 of the Criminal Code of Russian Federation).

>>45284933
Informative. But I get this nagging feeling that collectivism is really just being used to promote Russian homogeneity.

Don't get me wrong, the Scandinavians and Finna do similar to Muslims, and are more than a little behind the curb with LGBT issues. That or the US is just so far ahead the rest of the world looks behind, even Thailand.

Still I'm tied, I've been told Russia wants to seem diverse, but they don't seem to be doing anything that would show it.

How's their treatment of non Muslims Africans going, I remember a long time ago watching something on a Russian native black running for a high office, maybe even Putin's chair.

Does the cosmodrome see any civil science use these days?

>>45285109
Missed this post, guess that answers

>How's their treatment of non Muslims Africans going, I remember a long time ago watching something on a Russian native black running for a high office, maybe even Putin's chair

>>45285224
>But I get this nagging feeling that collectivism is really just being used to promote Russian homogeneity
That certainly one of it's main uses, sure. We had two quite bloody wars with kebab within our own damn borders just two decades ago, so any separatist ideas are not even opposition - they are the cancer to be burned out with any means necessary, as far as Kremlin is concerned.

>Still I'm tied, I've been told Russia wants to seem diverse, but they don't seem to be doing anything that would show it
It simply IS quite diverse ethnically. but obviously we do not welcome much diversity in ideology. Quoting State Duma speaker B. Gryzlov:
>"Parliament is no place for discussions!"
We want people of all colors marching together in neat lines for the Motherland, like it was during Soviets. It has very little alike with all the SWEDEN YES assclowning about respecting teh cultural differences. If it's useful for Kremlin like Chechnyan pro-Russian Islamists - it's good, if it's potentially dangerous for Kremlin - it won't live for long.

>How's their treatment of non Muslims Africans going
They are ultra rare. We're very used to (and mixed with) Mongoloids and Middle-Easterns, but black people still make pedestrians turn around and stare. Too cold, I assume.

>Does the cosmodrome see any civil science use these days
We're finishing building a new one, for use together with Baikonur - the Vostochny.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vostochny_Cosmodrome
Lots of investments. Putin puts a lot of chips on our space program, clearly unwilling to share the market with Elon Musk and the like.

>>45269651
Neudaiz

>bump

So, culturally xenophobic, more straight laced appearing, utilitarian society. Open displays of individuality, are seen as disruptive and not tollerated, but the flip side is those that would violently opress minorities in the population are tollerated even less.

The designs of machines are rugged, simple, and usually built arround 1 or 2 major pieces of tech, the rest being auxillery pieces of hydrolics and electronic systems held together by the strongest cheapest metal that could be mass produced easily.

Everything is done according to budget, sometimes at the cost of efficiency, and a little more often than american or western europe, safety. Bold saccrifice for your people, and perserverance being highly valued things.

>>45280013
>Be proud of it - this sort of willful ignorance is part of what made your people what you are today, and that is not something to fuck with.

Y'know, as backhanded compliments go, that's pretty damn nice. You Russkies are alright. Just don't try to get to Mars or Titan before us, this eagle's gotta fly.

>>45280179
>Mexico
>Russia wanting to annex a country even MORE corrupt and decrepit than they are.

>>45285535
Jesus, you make Russia sound like my native Montana, just with less cowboys and even MORE bears.

I am a Snek

>>45278172
Actually, the V2 rocket was an American invention. The man who made it was called a mad scientist, arrested, and had his blueprints and inventions sold off. Germany bought the plans to the V2 rockets.

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>>45293449
here snek this is for you

>>45273796
Lord of Light?

>>45279892
Fucking this.

>>45276692

It's your fault for not identifying yourself as Western even though by all means you are! And when you finally accept it, we can stop arguing and threatening each other like idiots and go after the real enemy!

>>45269739
Go back to POL you shit eating faggot.

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>>45293449

>>45293449
No you are telling lie. I don't believe what you said,snek.

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>>45269651
why not both?

>>45278402
>>45279385
i love the /pol/ memes

>>45296410
>TFW they take your love, take your land, and take you where you cannot stand.

Vera is best raifu

>>45269651
Not that different.

Designs of alien life would be pretty much the same deal as everywhere else, when tasked with making a new race, you start from what you know. So, there would be just people, people with animal traits, pairs of races with humanity between and so on. And overgrown animals as cosmic fauna.

As for civilisations clashing it would be similar too, maybe with praising whatever doctrine it's stemming from. socialism, honor and ancestors, glory of PRC and so on.

>>45269781
Hey, honest question?

What was commieland like to live in? As bad as we're told in the west? Worse? Better?

Were there any bits you miss? Any you're REALLY glad are gone?

Judging from Beijing? Extremely similar to sci-FO settings based on Western culture, but with occasional glimpses of Asian design, and a lot of pollution.

>>45279892
What is it about?

Gundam.

>>45301552
Commie here, it was worse in worst situations, not that noticeable for majority of people. Everyone was very effectively kept in informational isolation...now post commie 90's is a hell hole, nothing will ever describe the fear of living in a city where mafia, stealing and killing was glamurous to everyone and often the only way to survive. Tons of my friends died in that time, it was even worse for those who were not teens. That shot was so bad that the "black" or thieves or gop culture is still a thing.

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*cough* *cough* Zelazny *cough*

>>45305354
is that jack kirby art?

>>45305915
yup.
I would love to see a movie (animated or not) done in Kirby stylin.
http://www.heavymetal.com/news/jack-kirby-poster-preview-check-out-these-8-black-light-beauties-available-soon/

>>45303029
Buddhist Demigods and Gods fighting corruption and other things using giant spaceships and robots powered by faith

Could be wrong but thats what i remember off the top

>>45301552
Another commie here. It was... somewhat different in the commie times (though grandparents told that Khrushchev's Thaw and forth is like the ultra-light version of commieland compared to what it was under Stalin) - lots of things worse, but lots of things also better.

Then we somehow believed that free market solves everything, but in reality it only sent everything to hell. So the 90s happened. Sufficient to say that any Western ideas of how "90s sucked" don't even begin to compare to how they sucked here. That is the reason why many people here are pretty bitter about capitalism, nostalgic about Soviet times and supportive of anything that is not "the Western way", like dictatorships of all sorts.

>Were there any bits you miss
Definitely.
>Any you're REALLY glad are gone
Lots of those too.

>>45305354
Jack fucking Kirby did illustrations for a Roger Zelazny work?

Well, blow me sideways with pinfeather.

>>45285224
>Don't get me wrong, the Scandinavians and Finna do similar to Muslims, and are more than a little behind the curb with LGBT issues. That or the US is just so far ahead the rest of the world looks behind, even Thailand.
Are you implying that there is a "forward" and a "backward," something other than "selective advantage at this location and time?"