Hi there /tg/. I'm working on a personal project from 40k and I need some help with the fluff
Essentially I'm writing a battle right now in which two Chapters of Space Marines, one being my ORIGINEL CONTENT DONUT STEEL, the other being a loyalist chapter of future choice.
Essentially the OC Chapter is barely considered "loyal" by some in the Inquisition, because of their unorthodox pratices.
In the particular scenario I'm stuck with, the OC chapter and the existing chapter are fighting together in a Hive World, helped by Guardsmen regiments, against a Chaos cult that worships Khorne.
The setpiece I'm trying to work is that the OC Chapter had, without the existing chapter's previous knowledge, had dismantled a sacred vehicle and installed its weapons on the building they were defending, but I can't really choose a vehicle.
It has to be both powerful enough to justify attempting to take maximum advantage of its weapon systems and "holy" enough to come off as a massive shock. I originally thought Baneblade, because of it being said to be an ancient design, but I think a Baneblade is "common" enough that this kind of modification wouldn't come as too shocking.
What do you suggest?
>but I think a Baneblade is "common" enough that this kind of modification wouldn't come as too shocking.
Falchion or Fellblade.
Though that might be too far in the other direction.
Upon further investigation, the variant I was going to recommend would be the Stormlord. Vulcan Mega-Bolters in the turret, on top of standard secondary armament. Very useful against infantry and light vehicles.
Hypothetical question: Would the loyalist chapter, especially if it was a superduper Wardian chapter like the Ultramarines or the Grey Knights feel compelled to purge and purify the OC Chapter on the spot for this, even in the face of a Bloodthirster?
The OC Chapter that I'm making has two big genetic defects: They can't train through psychoindocrination and they produce geneseed slower than other chapters. So they became much more pragmatic, because following the Codex Astartes to the letter would have meant dying out.
They also have access to some advanced technology, so having a Fellblade in hand wouldn't feel too out-of-place, I guess. They could dissasemble it in ours and take years to put it back together.
What I'm going for is a non-retarded version of the Knights Inductor. Essentially an extremely pragmatic chapter that doesn't see the Codex Astartes as law, with most of the senseless bullcrap like attempting to minimize enemy deaths, friendly daemonettes, pacified Hive Fleets and Ork allies thrown out the fucking window.
Essentially, they became as they are by necessity. Their chapter got 3/4 wiped out very early on and were forced to adapt or die. They are characterized by extremely assimetrical warfare, training and deploying alongside Imperial Regiments, willingness to jury rig xeno tech in limited quantities to compensate for their lack of resources, and also advocate the interpretation of the Codex that allows limited cooperation or even integration of xenos that prove themselves friendly and trustworthy (note that these are VERY FEW in numbers. This isn't reasonable Marines/Knights Inductor bullshit where they have so many they can create xeno-only teams).
Vehicle could have been a hull/ engine room kill and been blown out, so the weapons systems could be cannibalized into fixed fortifications.
Seems pragmatic without being too stupid.
>Vehicle could have been a hull/ engine room kill and been blown out, so the weapons systems could be cannibalized into fixed fortifications.
This is sounding an awful lot like tech-heresy.
>Seems pragmatic without being too stupid.
Does this describe anything in 40k?
>Seems pragmatic without being too stupid.
Most guardsmen and lower-level individuals are quite pragmatic, actually. Also, what makes the 40K universe so crazy is the galaxy itself, and the fact that crazy people are the only ones who survive.
Is the battle is hard and vehicle had to be cannibalized because of damage then even orthodox AdMechs will understand (although they will demand the holy weapons to be handed over after the battle). You wanna go for a shock and insult - use xenotech.
>This is sounding an awful lot like tech-heresy.
Not really, no.
>40k is exclusively loldumb shit
No damage was done. Both Chapters were holed up in their last possible, fighting servants of Khorne led by a Bloodthirster, and they needed to install a weapon system in the building in question to buy themselves enough time against the Bloodthirster to kill it, so they dismantled a fully functional holy vehicle in their possession (streets were too crowded for it to be of any use as it were, the BT would just stomp over it) and jury-rigged its weapon systems as a stationary turret of sorts.
Also, in the topic of Xenotech, would Terminator Squads equipped with an experimental cloaking module fit the MAXIMUM HERESY profile or would it be one of those things that could be ignored in the face of a Bloodthirster? Essentially, how far can I bend dudes like the Grey Knights or Ultramarines before they break?
Edit: it was done under the excuse that the holy parts they were using out of necessity would have a better chance of surviving if kept safe, and deploying the vehicle would just result in it blowing up and being unfixable, instead of merely out of commission for a few decades while being rebuild (in truth, the OC chapter doesn't really give a shit, but they've gotten good at fanciful excuses with the Inquisition always on their tail).
>, and they needed to install a weapon system in the building in question to buy themselves enough time against the Bloodthirster to kill it, so they dismantled a fully functional holy vehicle in their possession
Why not just use the intact vehicle then?
>streets were too crowded for it to be of any use as it were
If they could drag the turret there they would have little trouble dragging the whole tank. Maybe widen the street just a bit with explosives.
>the BT would just stomp over it
But it can't stomp over a stationary turret? I mean, tank is literally a mobile turret on tracks, there is no advantage to be gained from moving a turret from a chassis onto a bunker, from a technical standpoint. You're just confining it to be used in only one place, as opposed to being able to maneuver it wherever the need is pressing. It would certainly insult them Ultramarines - as it's a pretty retarded decision.
>Also, in the topic of Xenotech, would Terminator Squads equipped with an experimental cloaking module fit the MAXIMUM HERESY profile or would it be one of those things that could be ignored in the face of a Bloodthirster
if it's a straight-out Necron or Tau device beyond the understanding of Techmarines with some strange side effects - they would not "break", but get ROYALLY pissed and furiously demand explanations. It would probably fit your needs just well.
So, the scenario is like this:
The Marines are holed up in a Palace that is their last defensible position. The area around the palace is also being defended by regiments of Imperial Guardsmen and other surviving vehicles. There are only 3 potential exits through the streets.
The OC chapter dismantled a [placeholder] Fellblade Accelerator cannon and put it inside the Palace itself, clearing out most of the second and third floor with controlled detonations previously to make room for it. Not only is the cannon at the ideal height to attack the Thirster's more vulnerable points as it is in the defensible position itself. If the Palace falls, they fall, period. The cannon is installed at the last possible point they can hold. Think it's more stupid than pragmatic? I'll admit the idea doesn't sound so good when I say it compared to when I wrote it.
I'm thinking about using both, really. The Cloaked Terminators, fluff wise, are an OC-exclusive unit that was "created" by them by jury-rigging Tau creations because most of their advanced equipment like Teleporters and shit got BTFO early on in their history, and, isolated from most of the remaining universe by Warp Storms, had to REALLY stretch the limits of the Codex Astartes to remain alive and find replacements for most of their tech.
>clearing out most of the second and third floor with controlled detonations previously to make room for it
Why not just park the whole [placeholder] in there? It can still shoot wherever they need and if the shit goes south on that position or the firepower is needed elsewhere, it can drive off. That's what all the mechanized armies are doing now. Ditching the chassis makes sense if they got FUBAR or you're low on fuel but don't want to leave the firepower behind.
>Think it's more stupid than pragmatic
>I'm thinking about using both, really
Stealth would be enough, I think.
> jury-rigging Tau creations
Definitely enough. Codex can be stretched far and wide, but to trust your lives (that belong to the Emperor) and the course of battle to xeno creations is to approach the forbidden a bit too closely. AdMechs would go rather apeshit, codex-respecting marines would demand trial and penance on your ass, which is where your chapter master, techmarines and chaplains get a chance shine in their rhetoric and play some politics.
Strapping a superheavys guns to s building is silly, a superheavys armor will be stronger than any building save one designed as a fortress and a fortress would have its own guns.
But if the problem is that the vehicle can't be used because narrow areas and getting stomped by bloodthirsters, you can more easily cannibalize the weapons of a Land Raider to make makeshift turrets or emplacements and spread them out.
And it would be double-heresy because a Land Raider is a venerable machine that's carried hundreds of marines into battle without complaint. It's a lot more like shooting the family dog than a Fellblade, which would be a half-forgotten relic.
> you can more easily cannibalize the weapons of a Land Raider to make makeshift turrets or emplacements and spread them out
...or you place devastators squads with their own weapons there, eliminating the need for fucking lascannon emplacements.
>And it would be double-heresy because a Land Raider is a venerable machine that's carried hundreds of marines into battle without complaint. It's a lot more like shooting the family dog than a Fellblade, which would be a half-forgotten relic.
Seeing that LR variants can be (and constantly are) converted into one anoher by changing their armament - I don't fucking see how dismantling it's lasguns make a "double heresy". I mean for a Fellblade you'd have to take the turret off. But LRs have no turret. It's just side sponsons, guuns can be dismantled without taking anything from the vehicle itself.
If you're low on manpower, or just need more dakka, making emplacements is a good idea. Sort of like Tarantula Turrets, but a bit more cobbled together. Firepower + firepower = more firepower.
And OP clearly stated that the vehicle was getting dismantled - it wasn't just losing its weapons, its auto-senses and parts were being cannibalized to make turrets.
A FUCKING EMPEROR TITAN
DO IT FAGGOT
I made this masterpiece of better explain my point. Take in mind that the cannon can rotate up and down, left and right a bit, and the Bloodthirster will come through the middle entrance. The red lines are Imperial Guard entrenchments and the blue dots are Artilery emplacements. No Marines of any chapter are considered.
They wanted a powerful weapon that could fire in most directions, so the Accelerator Cannon had to point up and down, to hit both a Bloodthirster's head for example and regular ground-dwelling Chaos cultists and Bloodletters, something the Fellblade alone cannot do.
Land Raiders are torn apart and built anew every other story, anon. They have more modifications than there are Primarchs, so I really don't see how ripping one apart would count much to "Shock factor".
Plus, you're disconsidering the fact the OP's objective was to give pause to a Greater Daemon of Khorne, something the armament of one miserable Land Raider probably wouldn't do
>something the Fellblade alone cannot do
Or can it? If your whole problem is it's vertical aiming angles just pile up a small ramp of debris under it's rear.
See anon, that's why you gotta respect the %%field manual%% Codex Astartes - it has such basic shit covered.
Thing is, that is wildly impratical when I might want to fire at the ground and at an elevation in a short period of time. Constantly lifting a multi-ton vehicle to pile debris and then removing it, while the techpriests work their best to reload the damned weapon so you all don't die a painful, Khorne-hatred-filled death is not very pratical compared to just taking the gun out and installing it in a rotational platform, not to mention it would compromise much less the integrity of the building (Remember anon, second and third floor - the whole Fellblade instead of just its upper half would occupy much more space).
A thing that I forgot to explain is that the Knights of Terra had days to prepare for this. Their whole plan was to delay the Chaos forces' advance long enough to lure a pissed-off Bloodthirster, denied the glory of respectable combat, into a perfect killzone. They're the kind of meticulate bastards that want to make sure they can control everything in the battlefield, and that includes not to shit away any precision they might have when aiming by forcing them to use "pile of rubble A" as their measurement unit.
Most Land Raider variants' strenght comes from their armor and resilience. What the OP wants here, from what I can gather, is a weapon with enough WOMFPH to stagger a Greater Daemon, something very few variants of Land Raider can do, much less be as identifiable as an Accelerator Cannon from a Fellblade
>Thing is, that is wildly impratical when I might want to fire at the ground and at an elevation in a short period of time
Just park it on the ramp and be done with it. Fellblade turret can aim pretty high up. I also don't see how putting the very same turret with the very same elevation mechanism on a bunker solves this. It would have the same vertical aiming angles.
> and that includes not to shit away any precision they might have when aiming by forcing them to use "pile of rubble A" as their measurement unit
Hat's not how it works. Tank would just remain stationary, it's chassis tilted forward. It can aim using it's own usual auto-senses and auspecii, which are adding the tilt against horizon into ballistic calculations anyway (I honestly don't think that Fellblade lacks basic WWII-era technology).
How about a titan? They're viewed as far more holy by the admech than any mere tank, and some of the rarer variants would really have 'shock' value. I'd recommend an Imperator but I wouldn't want to rip off Dawn of War so maybe just make it a Warlord, their guns are plenty killy and you can even add in fluff about the marines jury-rigging the fallen god machine's void shields to bolster the building's defenses?
>Marines had problems with supply lines, so they just casually reverse engineered some Xeno tech for which they have no supply lines
>Xeno integration within the Chapter
>muh Marines are the bestest ever because they don't act like retards
>Marines have days to maneuver a fully functional tank into a perfect killzone position, but they will rather somehow dismantle this ancient technology so they can then jurry rig the whole fucking turret somewhere else
>whole thing smells like OP is forcing his Chapter to have an argument with an established Chapter for the sole reason of proving how 40k is retarded, his intellect is unmatched and his Chapter is the best ever
OP you wank over how pragmatic and awesome your Marines are, but the example of their tactics you gave us makes them complete and utter retards.
Personally I find your Chapter to be complete Mary Sue faggotry, but it's your OC so do whatever the fuck you want. But seriously, dismantling a fully functioning tank because it supposedly can't aim up or down enough so it can be used as a fixed turret, is pants on head retarded. Space Marines doing it to a Fellblade makes it even worse.
But that's not the point. They don't "casually reverse engineer" xeno tech, it was a process that took hundreds or thousands of years to get any result. They have supply lines to that tech because they are the ones who built it. They understand the basics of how it works, at least.
Also, there really is no "proving 40k is retarded". If it's Ultramarines, it'll just be a way to show they're good diplomats, and if it's Grey Knights it'll serve as a demonstration of what a Space Marine Chapter made solely of Pariahs can do to psykers. I'm not intending to go around screaming how stupid everyone else is, and there are stories where their tactics fail them.
Also, they dismantle the Fellblade for two reasons:
>1.They rarely use Armored Vehicles of such size, being a chapter based on stealth and subversion
>2. They don't want to risk losing the Fellblade as a whole.
Think about it: they dissasemble the cannon turret and mount it and its lascannons into a more mobile but stationary emplacement. If the Palace survives, which is the minimum possible objective that ensures any of them get out of there alive, so does the Fellblade, and they can just put it back together, even if it takes a few years or decades. If they deploy it alongside the Imperial Guard Regiments or other artillery pieces, it's much easy for a Bloodthirster to destroy it, losing the precious artifact.
They also aren't dismantling the tank on the field. I won't say why because I'm on my phone but let's just say they compensate for their lack of resources with some unique versatility. The Accelerator Cannon arrives by means of supply drop already dismantled and ready to be built into a stationary tower
That would be going too far on the opposite direction IMO. That's the kind of thing that could motivate a chapter to not even give them the chance to speak and cut them down on the spot, and the Knights of Terra lose in a straight fight against anyone but Librarians and Grey Knights, even with superior numbers.
>They rarely use Armored Vehicles of such size, being a chapter based on stealth and subversion
> They don't want to risk losing the Fellblade as a whole
If they fail so much at using a Fellblade they should return it to Mars.
>a Space Marine Chapter made solely of Pariahs
>not a mary sue chapter
Where the fuck would you even find that many Pariahs? There are as few pariahs compared to psykers as there are psykers to normal humans. The grey knights had to recruit from all over the galaxy to get all their psykers, with the help of the inquisition. You aren't going to get a Space Marine chapter to find 10,000 pariahs to lose 9000 in training by any sodding means. How the fuck do they even get around? The one hundred pariahs on a company Battle Barge would kill all the navigators and astropaths onboard.
True Mary Sues aren't created deliberately, OP. You have made some.
Your fluffpiece does not actually make sense and is not a good fit for a source of conflict.
Space marines are, BY FAR the loyalists that re the most likely to scrounge, dismantle or improvise technology because they both maintain their own vehicles and use their own vehicles.
The techmarines are still warriors and don't put the sanctity of the tools above the sanctity of the task.
90% of all land raider modifications, for instance, came about because some techmarine said
>Fuck this noise, we're not waiting on the imperial guard or pulling back, we need some heavy siege tanks STAT, so I'm gonna put some fucking demolisher cannons on some Land Raiders, and we're gonna roll up and blow that rebel scum to pieces. And then I'm gonna share the blueprints with some other space marine chapters, because they might need to do the same thing some day.
After which the Adeptus Mechanicus more or less goes
>Oh shit they started finicking with another venerable old holy STC design, what is this, their 10th Land Raider variant?. Okay, here's what we're going to do. We'll act like nothing because we can't fucking censor a loyalist chapter without a massive shitstorm, and we don't want to be in the doghouse in case we need Space Marine muscle for some shady AdMech business or defending some random secret lab that always ends up attracting eldar or raiders. And if someone brings it up in a meeting, we'll just pretend like it's a newly discovered STC variant blueprint and pretend that it's totally kosher, got it? -Yes arch magos.
Space marines would not start fighting because someone dismantled a BaneBlade. They have tinkered with literally every one of their own vehicle patterns at one point or another.
>all the speshul faggotry I posted above
>they are also all Pariahs
Nigger that is Mary Sue on so many levels it's not even hilarious. Every novel about Inquisitors employing a single Pariah in their retinue constantly stresses how hard it was to find that Pariah. The Culexus Temple scours the whole galaxy to find them and they take pretty much anyone. You Chapter has to find a Pariah (already ultra fucking rare) who is a young boy compatible with their geneseed. And that boy then has to survive both the training and implementation of the geneseed. They'd get like 1 Marine every 100 years that way. Again it's your OC and you can do whatever you want, like handwave it as some DAoT tech planet that produces a shitload of Pariahs, but that's Mary Sue as fuck.
You don't get it. If a Chapter is relying on non standard Imperial tech, let alone Xeno tech, that is implemented into standard Imperial tech it needs two reliable supply lines. One for the Imperial tech, one for Xeno tech. Lose only one of those and you have a hard time resupplying your Marines.
And you are still stupid about the turret. You say they have days to prepare. Why can't they deploy the Fellblade normally, blow it a passage to the palace and reinforce the area where it would be. Again, dismantling a tank cupola to use it as a jurry rigged turret is stupid. In 40k it's beyond retarded. If the Palace fails, it could still try to retreat. Not to mention that even if they manage to get the cupola operational, the chasis they put it on has to be carefully made to be able to withstand the pressure of firing.
Furthermore, why do they even need the Fellblade? They are a Chapter of fucking Pariahs. Bum rush the Daemon, stab it in the knee to down it and then stab it once again in the head. The Daemon is dragged screaming back to the Warp because they are fucking Pariahs
First, for the Pariah comment (I know it doesn't help my cause, just bear with me)
Second, for the scenario: Yeah, on retrospective it's fucking stupid. I wrote it at night when I couldn't sleep because I was trying to find a ground to fit this scene:
>Knights of Terra and Grey Knights both respond to a distress call from a planet to aid from Daemons
>Knights of Terra MO is described. The actual plan is more than just "LEWLZ RIP APART A FELLBLADE" which I admit sounds fucking retarded when I say it
>They defeat the Greater Daemon leading the incursion
>Grey Knights insist on purging the Imperial Guardsmen who helped the defense
>Seargent-Scout catches a bullet meant for the Garrison Leader, and the Silencer-Captain orders his men to go apeshit on the Greys.
>Ends with hint that even a Silencer is vulnerable to the influence of Khorne
What would you suggest that could integrate this?
And for Third, I don't think they're Mary Sues really. The only chapter they have any advantage over in a straight fight are the Grey Knights, they emit an aura of scorn and unease, most of their tech is a result of juryrigging out of necessity. "Having a bad time ressuplying your Marines" is the fucking point. Their reinforcement rates are brutally low. They either use every dirty trick in the book or they die.
Look mate, as I've said do what ever you want with your OC. That's the point of 40k. I find it Mary Sue, but that doesn't mean shit really now does it.
Grey Knights don't always kill the Guardsmen. Armaggedon was an exception, because there is no way the Imperium would allow the knowledge of Daemon Primarchs to get out. Normally they just use their powers to mindwipe them during the celebration gathering or something like that. Even if that happens, slaughtering an entire squad of GK is a bad thing. Dark Angels and Space Wolves could get away with it because they are first founding and only killed the captain or were a pain in the ass to them.
I'm also pretty sure that Blanks can't be influenced by Khorne. Pariahs even more so. IIRC there was some possessed Blank in some novel, but that was a clone or something. And if your Marines emit an aura of unease, that makes them Blanks. Pariahs are pretty much a death sentence to Psykers, because they have a negative Warp presence and really fuck with non psykers too. Blanks lack a Warp presence and that registers as distaste or outright hate for them, depending on their power level. Pariah Marines could casually stroll through a Daemon world, shooting every motherfucker in the head. That would be enough for banishment.
As for their jurryrigged equipment, that would force them to throw supply lines completely out of the window. Looting and scavenging tech, making their weaponry completely unrecognizable in a few years. You can't reliably do that for centuries. If they also integrate Xeno tech that makes it pretty much impossible in the long run. Just say that most of their tech is slightly modified and some of their special toys are integrated with Xeno tech.
Basically you want to write a story that hints that your commander isn't as infallible as he thinks. As I've said, I'm pretty sure Khorne whispering to him is impossible. Maybe this?
>KoT are saving some Imperial planet
>Inquisitor arrives to do some shady stuff
>Inquisitor does the shady stuff that is actually completely OK and not some heretical shit
>in the process finds some damning stuff about the KoT
>KoT realize this
>commander knows for a fact that only the Inquisitor is aware of that, hasn't told anyone in his retinue and it's possible that he won't betray them at all
>lies to his squad that everyone knows and that they must take action before the Inquisitor could use an Astropath to damn them for ever
>KoT proceed to slaughter everyone in the Inquisitors retinue
>KoT know they did a bad thing, but also know that it was the only way to go
>only the commander knows it wasn't necessary for everyone to die, possibly it wasn't even necessary to kill the Inquisitor
Yeah, that was it, I was using the general term Pariah to describe both Pariah and Blanks because both have the pariah gene.
The Marines are blanks, and the Silencers are Pariahs that learn to control the Null Energies they emmit and weaponize it.
And yeah, they pretty much don't have supply lines, or much of worlds. They have a big fleet with a old Gionora-class Battleship, the Aurora of Dawn, serving as their makeshift homeworld, being stripped of most weapons to support a civilian population and a compact Forge, much like a very-mini-Craftworld. They still recruit from a few planets but they are always low on resources and are constantly jury-rigging everything they can find to create the semblance of a working army.
This is good, it's actually similar to something I have already.
It's about an Inquisitor assigned to an Imperial Regiment the KoT were helping, who suspects of heresy. He goes scooping around, finds little because the Knights are good at hiding this type of shit, and just barely manages to find the Imperial Eldar (Long story short, an Eldar that was adopted and trained from birth by the Knights, loyal to a fault to the Emperor and the Imperium), but Captain Hectus, who trained her and sees her as a daughter decides its not worth the trouble and turns the Imperial Guard against the Inquisitor, executing him and recruiting the Regiment into the Knights.
It's part of a planned arc where the Eldar ends up having to kill the Captain because he got corrupted and was at risk of becoming a Null Knight.
Also, having an onboard Forge allows them to, through mining and resource scavenging, for their equipment to remain fairly standard. Things like the Cloaked Terminator squads that I mentioned are proven designs that can already be reproduced in very small scale thanks to millenia of constant study.
Their most recent deviation of design is the Juggernaut, a Dreadnought that was so banged up they had to fix using Wraithguard parts. The result was a Comtemptor-like creation, less powerful than it, of course, but specializing in anti-armor destruction