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So my DM just announced that we're doing...
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So my DM just announced that we're doing a 60 point buy for our next d&d 3.5 game.

But not a regular point buy. We start at 0, and the stats are one for one.

In other words, I can do 10 points in all stats, or go a bit crazy.

Thoughts on how I should build my rogue with this system?
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>>45233622
18, 18, 15, 3, 3, 3 or go home

>3.5
>rogue
don't, go full caster - CoDzilla for permanent wildshape ideally.
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>>45233651
I already decided to go rogue, sadly.

How badly am I fucked with stats that low?
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>>45233622
Jesus Christ, that's going to kick martials in the dick.
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First question; how open is your selection?
Second question; GM's oppinion on exotic races?

If you aren't forced to core and 'tolkien esque' selection, then look into a race with no constitution; such as a Ghost or a construct, and instead enjoy a baseline of 12, 12, 12, 12, 11. Second, a ghost with incorporeal touch attacks for sneak attack? Hilarious.
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>>45233721
I fucked up ; 5 x 12
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>>45233721
>First question; how open is your selection?
Of what?

>Second question; GM's oppinion on exotic races?

No ECL. Base races only.
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Str 6
Dex 30
Con 6
Int 6
Wis 6
Cha 6
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>>45233756
Selection of books and such, I mean to imply "Do you have access to more than just core rulebooks"

Also, that sucks man,. I am sure it's doable but I can't say I adore it.
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>>45233760
Can't go above 18
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>>45233774
All official rulebooks

So far I'm thinking 18 dex human, dump cha/str, feats 2 handed fighting and weapon fineness.
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>>45233822
How many days do you have until you need this character done?
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>>45233941
Next thursday
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>>45233951
I would suggest honestly taking this to a more linear forum that enjoys these brainchallenges and would not delete the thread after a day or so. This seems like it could be fun to fart about with.

If it wasn't for the fact that you set your class already, I'd say a 'rogue-like' caster class that has something like Alter Self on it's spell list to cover for stats
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Pump Dex/Wis; these are the most common types of saves you will worry about, Dex will cover your ranged/finesse attacks and make you a sneaky git, so we'll keep this as the primary stat. Unfortunately Int and Wis both help you in terms of observational awareness and general cunning, so you might need some MAD here.

Don't bother with being a charming fuck or a not!bard. You're a professional, and your profession involves making that guy over there stop breathing without any of his friends knowing what happened, opening the door he was guarding without tripping the trap and getting the gold before anyone knows it's got. You don't need charm, you're not in the business of getting caught and having to shmooze your way out of trouble.

Focus on abilities, magic items, and multiclassing/PrCs that make you pretty much as invisible as possible, you should be relying on a 50% miss chance more than a +2 to AC and a bonus on being unnoticed enough to bypass defenses instead of a bonus to attack in order to overpower them.

Consider a race with an innate DEX boost so you can pump up your secondary stats with less penalty and something with low-light vision or darkvision.
>>
>>45233622

>Stuck in Rogue.

Welp, that sucks. Rogues are crazy MAD, seriously one of the worst, and the overall 'heft' of your stats is going to SUCK (15, 13, 12, 11, 10, 8 is the "standard array" IIRC and you can't even get close to that). If I had this from the beginning I'd probably go half-orc Barbarian with preracial 3's in Int and Cha, maybe a shit wisdom too. Int can't go under 3, so half orc becomes free strength. But for getting a playable rogue out of this, you'll need some work. You can go straight stabmaster, or you can go skillmonkey/face. The latter is harder, but I think I'd get the better results out of it.

Intelligence: Int is good for rogues, but it's not THAT good. You still get 8 skills at max ranks with a +0 Int. You need Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, Disarm Trap, and Sleight of Hand to use your class. If you want to go diplo you need Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive rounding out a full eight. If you don't want to face, you take 0-3 of Climb, Tumble, Use Rope, and Jump for more movement options. Human gets you an extra skill.

Either way, dump Str and take Weapon Finesse or ranged feats. But sneak attack is retardedly easier in melee, so weapon finesse is great.. A good reason to go Charisma is the Force of Personality feat from Complete Adventurer that lets you use Cha instead of Wis for will saves. You could suffer no mechanical penalties to anything other than Sense Motive checks if you take that feat, as long as you have at least a 13 Cha. Being able to sell down a stat that you'd normally need sufficency in THAT low is more than worth it.

Human
6 Str so you aren't encumbered by super basic gear
10 Con
18 Dex. Huzzah for maximum stat.
10 Int
3 Wis. 0 Common Sense.
13 Cha. Enough to qualify for Force of Personality.

Force of Personality and Weapon Finesse feats

At Max Ranks: Hide, Move Silently, Tumble, Open Lock, Disarm Trap, Sleight of Hand, Bluff, Diplomacy, Sense Motive
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Half Orc War Hulking hurler
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>>45234191
>A good reason to go Charisma is the Force of Personality feat from Complete Adventurer that lets you use Cha instead of Wis for will saves.

I see people mention this so much that they seem to forget that Force of Personality only applies to Will saves against Mind-Affecting spells and abilities.
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>>45233622
Punch your DM and leave.
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>>45234712
To be fair, most things that require Will saves are mind-affecting. There are a couple effects you miss out on protection from, but it'll give you fair odds against way more than that.
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>>45234867
True enough. But it's painful when people generalize the feat when it explicitly states that you lose out on the benefit against particularly dangerous spells like Baleful Polymorph and Imprison Soul.
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>>45233622
tell your gm you aren't playing unless this is a npc class only game.
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>>45233622
Shit idea
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>>45233622
Why stuck in Rouge OP? Is your DM hellbent on non-changable class choices or some shit?


Rogue is one of the weakest 3.5 classes, although I still love them. This point buy system your DM is using is going to make them much weaker than they normally are.


If you're super stuck with le rouge. I guess munchkining DPS hard as fuck is your best bet.

Take the first posters advice, although maybe with a little less dex for some int, and so you can speak. Play human. Fuck sneaking, Jump/tumble behind people and backstab their asses with a greatsword. Work on Weapon focus and power attack.
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>>45233622
Your DM is running a bad game even worse than normal. Why are you going along with it?
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>>45233622
That's a really stupid system. Do you at the very least have some boundaries? Like, can't go below, dunno, 7 in any stat?
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>>45233721
One thing is exotic races, one thing is allowing to play a ghost or a golem. Jeez, it should pretty evident how many good reasons there are to not alow such creatures as PCs.
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>>45239260
Honestly, considering the stats 3.5 assumes you have, being able to go below 7 in this is kind of required for anything that wants more than one good stat (aka anything other than wizard/cleric/sorceror/druid)
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>>45233622
>3.5
>rogue

Ugh, at least be a beguiler or a swordsage or something.
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>>45239337
Honestly, if this party mixes casters and martial classes or skill monkeys, the non-casters are going to be at least twice as useless as usual, and the game will be a disaster of 1 or 2 people carrying the party on their backs at a higher than usual power level for their character level, and everyone else being much weaker than usual.
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>>45239429
RIGHT!?

Beguiler could do great with this. Swordsage too, although they need other stats a little more.
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>>45239437
>>45234801
>>45233689
These are completely accurate.
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>>45239337
That's one of the reasons I said it's a stupid system. Anyway, allowing players to dump stats below certain values is ... well, it isn't going to go well. It is first of all horrible, leading to "I am as smart as a chestnut because I needed those two extra points in Constitution" scenes.
Yes, martials would be super-screwed, pure casters would be horribly advantaged (even more than they already are) and Paladins would cry napalm in desperation.
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>>45233721
>race with no constitution

Necropolitan template. LA +0 template that basically just turns you undead and gives you turn resistance. Also not an evil-by-default thing, they're just kind of creepy and reclusive and don't allow immigrants to their underground city unless you become a necropolitan.

>>45239566
Also completely accurate.
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>>45233622
Thinking about it more, you could do an alternative take on rogue, pump your INT to 16, dump everything else slightly, except either DEX or CHA. Fuck it, you'll be shit in combat anyway. Take every skill. Put all your feats into skill-monkeying harder. Get some UMD and other tricks.

Straight up bail on combat scenes until you get some useful UMD shit.

Anyone complains blame the DM.
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>>45233760
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Well, you're fucked. Take your first level in rogue and look into a caster class, like Unseen Seer, Arcane Trickster, Magelord, or the like. Magelord, by the way, has a typo in the prerequisites - it requires 4th level spells, not 5th. Consider also a level of Spelldancer so you can Persist Schemas for all day buffing via UMD, but this requires level 12 so it's probably not happening. You aren't going to rogue well with this layout, and you aren't ever going to rogue well by taking levels in rogue to begin with, so your best option is to theurge into full casting, or at least learn to play pretend and abuse UMD. Remember, UMD does let you pretend to be other races, classes, and alignments, so if you get those nfity horseshoes, those might be on the table.
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