And never, ever cut a deal with a dragon.
>Chummer 5: https://github.com/chummer5a/chummer5a/releases
>Issue tracker: https://github.com/chummer5a/chummer5a/issues
>Witty OP discussion topic
Holy goddamn fucking shit what do I have to do to stat the Friz as a runner
Has TwoDee moved on? Will we ever see the rumored storytime sequel? Am I a fool for holding out hope?
I can't speak for TwoDee, but I have a friend writing up what's probably going to be a longer (by wordcount) story of the game we played.
Quality of storytime might be debatable, but it turned like four dudes who had never heard of shadowrun (and one of whom had never RPed before) into diehard fans of the system and setting.
He's like.... 10-15% done with it? He wanted to make sure it was at least halfway there before he started posting snips and shit. Anyway, in terms of overall tones and Shenanigan count it's comparable to the shit TwoDee posted and it'll probably start getting posted before summer starts.
You could make a case.
So /tg/, I wanted to throw together a little guide to building a run, for newbie GMs and a general reference for the rest of us.
Basically, I was planning it as a two part thing: First one being a sort of checklist of things a run needs and how to put together a coherent location, and the second one being a semi interchangeable bit based on the edition in question for specific bits related to rules/fluff changes between rulesets.
I figured /srg/ was the best place to throw this idea out there, see if anyone wanted to help.
So like, step one would be figuring out the basic premise of the run (theft, for instance), step two would be in managing other details (Who the Johnson is, the object of the theft following the earlier example), Possible complications (changed security layout, other team making a go for the same object) etc.
The end result hopefully being that you could throw any sort of idea at the wall from 'bank heist' to 'I wanna do a cool car chase' and figuring out all the little details that'll turn it into a solid, memorable run.
So basically, drown me in ideas here so I have as much to work with as possible. Anything from different types of runs (like the difference between theft and extraction), to little details you think are important (like security camera placement).
Anything. Types of runs, ways of setting up a good and dramatic Johnson double cross, advice you'd give to a first time GM, mistakes you made that you'd want to watch out for, anything.
Part of the idea, yeah. Basically, the part I'm working on right now is technically devoid of mechanics, and is to serve as a guide for shit like 'useful ways to keep track of initiative', 'basic run construction', 'why get the mage first is on the top ten tips list nine times'. Anything from fluff to good rules of thumb for police response times in a given location, to appropriate degrees of escalation as the run goes progressively further south.
The crunch side of things like 'this is how you build a matrix defense grid for the hacker/decker to beat their head against' would be more system specific than I'm going for here. But I plan on at least doing a 4e version of the crunch guidelines, and leaving the field open for anyone who wants to talk about other versions (I just say 4e for me because it's my preferred version and I know it the best).
Sounds like a good companion piece/add on to what I've got here. I'm anxious to see what you put together
Black Market Pipeline
During character creation, the player chooses one existing individual contact and a single category of merchandise (e.g., vehicles, weapons, electronics, armor, etc.).
The selected contact can always buy or sell goods in that category through the black market with better-than-normal rates for the character. Purchases through this contact get a ten percent price reduction and a +2 dice pool modifier for the Availability Test.
At some point in your wide travels and extra-legal activities, you met someone who has access to retail vehicles, and your connection means that you get vehicles at a discount. When selecting this quality, pick a class of vehicle (ground craft, watercraft, aircraft, or drones). Each time you purchase a vehicle of that class, you receive ten percent off the price. The discount is taken after the gamemaster makes adjustment to the price based on Availability. This quality may be taken up to four times, once for each class of vehicle.
Speaking of junkyard jaw, what's a good/amusing/mildly embarrassing way for a NPC street sam now nicknamed Biter to have lost his original jaw as a random backstory detail? My current fallback is he bit (not voluntarily) a monofilament whip and got very, very lucky, but I'm open to suggestions. "Biting" a troll fist seems like a more mundane and plausible reason, too.
One could advocate the Black Market Pipeline could be used with item acquired on the black market, and Dealer Connection would apply to items acquired legally. But personally I would let them stack if the contact linked to them is supposed to have access to non-registered retail vehicles.
Yeah, I wound up saying fuck it and just doing the code for it to support both.
I'm running a game for some friends and currently in 5e it seems that gunshots that don't injure knock the players out really easy. Am I doing combat and damage wrong?
What i'm doing is roll player or enemy attack and opposed defense. Then net hits plus weapon damage is compared to armour to see if physical or stun. Either damage type is resisted then applied. Is that right?
>when a basic security guard rolls 7 hits on 8 dice and deals 14 damage with a shitty light pistol
>and brings someone from full health down to 1 physical box
>in the first pass of combat
You mean in the priority system?
I think mages and mystic adepts are pretty even. Sure, the MA can learn more things, but he has to invest karma like he's on his way to nirvana to be half as competent as a dedicated mage or adept.
Hey guys, I'm revising an initiative tracker google spreadsheet a guy made to be a sort of "all in one" combat tracker, what should be there for easy access?
So far I've got each thing with values of:
>init values calced for the first 6 passes (presumably you'll never need more)
>Penalties from these
>Ammo for primary/secondary weapon
>Attack roll for primary/secondary weapon
>Damage/AP for primary/secondary weapon
Eh, I wouldn't go for that specific thing, but I might do that if someone's backstory was that they had an accident and ended up having to get ware. However, most of my ware characters would willingly become a brain in a jar while laughing maniacally, so it doesn't come up much.
No, because it is. Locksmithing is in theory for those throwback locks really old-fashioned or really paranoid people use, but I don't remember the last time anyone's mentioned encountering such a thing.
>Locksmithing is in theory for those throwback locks really old-fashioned or really paranoid people use
Locksmithing/Lockpicks in SR work on electronic locks just fine.
When you don't have a decker/the decker is busy with other shit it is useful, but otherwise the decker could probably do it.
By 5e, not any more. Locksmithing is also explicitly for maglocks.
It's a good solution for infiltration adepts, who must operate solo from time to time and cannot invest in actual decking.
A friend of mine might be running a 5th ed game sometime in the future. Her long time boyfriend likes to play females, (he's playing a female wood elf in my 5th ed D&D game), so I thought this would be a good time for me, as a man, to play my first female character among friends who wouldn't be weirded out by cross gender role playing. The character I want to play? A BTL porn star who becomes a shadowrunner to bring more danger and excitement into her life. She would be the face of the party, well versed in corporate decorum and quite wealthy from an entertainer's income. Probably an elf with a genetically "enhanced" body, a sex acrobat of sorts but not strong or martially inclined.
My question to you is this: how creepy is this idea? She's pretty much a slut and uses her sexuality as a weapon when negotiating payment or gathering information. Does this go over the line into fetish territory?
It comes close. Depends on the maturity level of the group. If you're really concerned, you could drop the porn star angle and run her as just a junkie who's watched a lot of "Real Housewives of Renraku" or whatever for her style.
Could be neat if she has to slot a personachip to even interact on any level above zombie. I think there was a negative quality for that, blank slate?
Most of my experience is with 3rd ed, so you're referencing fluff I'm not familiar with. I'll look it up, but she's one of those "I always wanted to do this" kind of characters. Think it might be fun to fuck everyone but the PCs.
Anything else you guys think I would need?
Once I'm done I'll post an empty version that you guys can make copies of.
In this world, though, wouldn't it make more sense to have mechanical locks and other physical barriers rather than relying on electronic ones? If you're trying to keep runners from sneaking into your shit, the odds they have a good drill are lower than the odds they have a decker. Deckers are everywhere and computer locks are so ubiquitous that they're all most runners think about preparing to bypass. Sure, they probably have a SS who could ram down anything short of a super-heavy vault door, but that would make a ton of noise. It could also set off some nice old-fashioned mechanical alarms. You could even have a vault door with a mechanical time lock inside that only opens at predetermined times of day, probably in broad daylight when the security presence in the area is highest.
Is it just a convention of the genre that absolutely everything is connected to a computer network even though it would be more secure unplugged?
The thing is electronic locks require expensive equipment to defeat, so even if a decker can get through them, the average street ganger can't. Meanwhile, with mechanical locks, you don't need an overly expensive laptop to open it up.
>If you're trying to keep runners from sneaking into your shit,
You are trying to keep SINless/vandals from breaking in and making a mess, and keeping up the appearance of being secure to your clients/workers/people walking by while still being convenient enough for work to get done.
Now imagine this: You're a corporate suit and you're designing the security budget, are you going to splurge for mechanical locks that need a specific key (and any time it fucks up you need to call a rare and expensive locksmith) or are you going to get the cheap, functional maglocks that can be easily reset, locked, or opened by Steve the Spider?
Deckers are only common on runner teams, and runner teams are not the primary threat to security mainly because they are rare.
Anywhere juicy enough to be targeted by runners enough to make it an actual problem will be able to afford a dedicated spider anyway.
The ability to control and supervise the locks easily is nothing people are willing to give up just so. A high-quality decker is also actually rare as all fuck.
Um. Also what all the other people had said while I was typing.
My friends want to do a Shadowrun 5th ed campaign. What books do i need to read to understand the system? I heard its really dense compared to other systems.
Security is more about looking secure than actually being secure.
For example, the company that I work at has a system where we need to do a draw for a potential lottery winner.
The lotteries want us to
>Record the draw via screencapture
>Have a physical recording of the room
>Have the computer running the draw not be hooked up to the internet, instead have it stream DVI out to another computer which streams the DVI out to the internet
and a bunch of other shit
but nobody checks the actual program we use to generate the numbers.
We've also got a big gate/cage around the front door area that looks really secure with a big bulky lock, but the lock isn't actually even part of the mechanism, the gate is always open.
>(and any time it fucks up you need to call a rare and expensive locksmith)
Pro tip: Don't call locksmiths for your cheaper locks. They'll just smash the lock and demand you pay them for breaking your stuff.
The core book. Your spalt book (maybe). Also some drugs to get through the self-contradicting writing.
But actually you'll mostly need core and a fuckton of fanmade reference works and rule explanations. Unless you're GM.
To understand the system you need to read the corebook. Just the base rules, not the entire thing. Then you need to read the section on whatever archetype you're interested in. If you want cool bonus shit, then you can go read the splatbook for your archetype too.
>Everyone knows how to use them
>Quick to use (swipe a card or just walk by with an RFID)
>Can monitor them (who entered where when etc)
>Can remote lock them, open them, reset them in case of fuckup, all remotely
>Cheap because everyone uses them
>Slow to use (need to fish out a key and insert it)
>Cannot be monitored
>Cannot be remotely opened/locked/etc
>Repair requires someone out of house (unless you've got a dedicated locksmith)
>Probably more expensive due to rarity
If you can remotely open it electronically, then an enemy decker can as well.
Unless you mean a Wile E. Coyote esque contraption made of gears, levers, and pulleys in which case I suppose you are correct.
I did think of something more akin to the door openers you sometimes find in hopsitals and the like. In this case the corresponding switch being placed in the central security room, or the spiders office or something.
Oh, so just wired stuff.
Yeah, that's generally the "We are wary about digital threats so lets wire things that are super important" way to do it, with maglocks that have wireless off.
>Anywhere juicy enough to be targeted by runners enough to make it an actual problem will be able to afford a dedicated spider anyway.
Because spiders are so useful and not just another minor hurdle on the decker's way to hacking everything wide open.
I had a problem with my party's decker soloing everything when I tried to give places plausible levels of security for their function. So I started including bits of architecture designed just to fuck with them, though they could be explained in-game as kludges and relics of incomplete remodeling. My favorite was a door that led nowhere, embedded in the wall. The PCs were dead certain that it was an important door because it wasn't grouped with all the other locks on the building's network. When they checked blueprints of the building and saw nothing on the other side of the door, they were convinced that someone had doctored the blueprints to hide this super-important room. They fucked around with it all night and failed the mission.
>Because spiders are so useful and not just another minor hurdle on the decker's way to hacking everything wide open.
Dedicated spiders to places that expect shadowrunners or worse would be a lot less than a "minor hurdle".
>You'll never be in a futuristic biker gang, zooming through the night of Neo-Tokyo.
Feels bad man.
> You'll never be a great dragon's favorite drake, enforcing his will as a living extension of it.
Why even live.
So who is your favourite runner, anon? Are there any chars of you or your friends that left a lasting impression?
A special place in my heart is reserverd for the first runner of my brother. He tried to build himself, resulting in a 80 something old decker that was awesome at programming but really awkward around people. He died of asthma while trying to run from a pack of hellhounds on our 5th run...
Hey /srg/, I made a google spreadsheet to keep track of most combat things, like initiative, ammo, etc
If you want to use it yourself, go to File->Make a Copy
Oh, yeah, I agree.
Imagine getting in a car accident and you wake up with a leg that isn't yours, made out of metal, walks kinda funny and has no warmth.
Maybe not so much in 2077, but in earlier times when ware was the be all end all of limb replacement I can see it happening more often.
I had a random join one of my games who got auged to the gills because he identified as an F-22 Raptor-kin, does that count?
>Chrome fetishists who are creepy and dehumanizing
I believe somewhere in the books or somewhere a character had an addiction to ware, or maybe some other quality, but that is definitely a thing, and I could see someone becoming psychologically dependent on constantly improving themselves via ware.
I look forward to seeing it, anon. I love reading about other people's campaigns. It's really fun to see the stories that other GMs come up with given the same materials, you know?
Just think about the possibilities.
For your first female character good God fucking hell Christ no.
You just went full autist anon. Take the same face concept and tone the sex part down. It makes it sound like you barely interact with normal females.
Is there a way for riggers to use a drone without points consumptions for augmented vision for better criticals?
Just standing at the top of the battlefield and giving you more infrmations about the enemy
I love shit like this.
> be GM
> group decides to do a bank heist
> group consists of physical Adept focusing on melee, Decker / Sammy ork, dwarf Rigger and human Face
> get into basement using explosives, blowing up a weakened wall in an unused vault, bypassing security measures inside that vault
> guard and spirit of earth easily dealt with
> just then a different team of runners goes in through the hole made by our team, tripping the alarms and legging it
> blow open three vaults and open another one with stuff they got through legwork
> meanwhile spirit of fire has been summoned by the upstairs mage and comes down into the basement
> destroying sprinkler leads to water everywhere, fire spirit is weakened
> upstairs mage summons bad-fucking-ass spirit of beast and comes down into the basement
> Adept grabs the mage by the feet and smacks him into the spirit of fire, killing him and the spirit instantly
> spirit of beast free, runs amok upstairs, runners hear horrible sounds and decide to NOPE out of there
> one single mundane guard with average points in everything remaining in the basement
> almost instakills Face with a lucky shot, player has to burn Edge and get stabilized by trauma patch
> beast spirit arrives in the basement, runners loot as much as they can while rescuing Face and legging it through the sewer entrance
> guard gets beast spirit down to one health with barely a scratch
> this is a human with no armor to speak of, a heavy pistol and some standard ammo, 3's in his attributes and maybe 4's in his weapon skill, vs a level 7 spirit of beast
> ended up looting everything in the basement. Literally everything.
> this includes human-sized mannequins with expensive dresses that they had to go back and forth for several times WHILE THE SPIRIT OF BEAST WAS STILL FIGHTING THE GUARD
> got around 100k in loot, some nice guns, a cyberarm with augs and electronics to sell off
Man, I've been reading stories on SUPTG too much recently, I spent about a minute reading this and backreading trying to figure out how this was related to a Dark Heresy storytime.
Magic works poorly on advanced mundane technology, which probably rules out blending the two in practice (though cybermancy is an advancement in that direction, and it's not fundamentally impossible, just hard enough to be impractical in most cases). There's no fundamental rule against applying magic like technology and thus "magic technology", but the SR setting isn't even a century into the mana up-cycle and a point is constantly made that the only rule is don't trust the rules, so in the setting as it is, it's not going to happen. Give it another century or three, maybe.
I've been using this. Most of the dependent stats are automatically calculated. I also like to do chargen on this (last sheet), with formulae telling me how many points are left.
File > Make a copy... if you want it too. Best if you keep a blank copy in your drive and make copies of that for any characters.
Yes and no: We know the original design plans for Earthdawn and Shadowrun had a third game that took place during the third magic cycle, which had NANOMACHINES, SON kinda tech that was inherently awakened.
At the same time, nobody (at least in the last fluff bits I read) had any idea on how to make it work in the SR, since high tech is a 'new' thing with the sixth world stuff and nobody other than some Dragons and Harlequin has one percent the magic knowledge at a point in the cycles where magic isn't that strong yet.
Think of it like this: People knew explosions pushed things back in medieval times. People knew birds could fly because wings. From an outside perspective, the idea of building an internal combustion engine to power an aircraft doesn't seem impossible. But from the inside they're literally centuries away from making all the puzzle pieces to build it out of. By comparison, you're asking about when King Arther is going to get off his ass and colonize the moon.
>Yes and no: We know the original design plans for Earthdawn and Shadowrun had a third game that took place during the third magic cycle, which had NANOMACHINES, SON kinda tech that was inherently awakened.
Third or second? Aren't the odd-numbered ones the low periods?
Technically the Second age was the first magic cycle, and the fourth was the second which Earthdawn took place at the tail end of.
The sixth Age/World, Shadowrun's setting, is the third magic cycle that we know of setting wise. The fourth cycle, two eras from 'now' is where this third game took place.
I wish I could remember the name of it, it came up in a prior /srg/.
Just wrapped up some surveillance on my next run and had a little question for y'all.
Would it be wise to bag some corp. drones on the job, assuming I'm thorough enough to wipe the things of RFID tags/trackers? The only thing Mr. Johnson wants is the mark unharmed and the package re-sellable, what's a few rigger toys going to do.
Not completely derp on your part, I did phrase it poorly.
Wise? No. Everything you plan to nick on the way out the door means one more thing you need to carry out, and don't try to hide behind the technicalities on drones carrying themselves.
There's also the risk of you not wiping them through enough, or even if you do getting recognized for having their property on a later run.
If you want to commit the additional theft 'safely', steal some, clean them up as best you can, then sell them 'used' at a reduced price via your black market contacts. You'll take a small cut in overall pay, but risk mitigation is worth your weight in gold.
I wouldn't. Remember, they released 5th to regress the overall tech levels and retcon nano-machines into 'always evil no exceptions'. Suddenly remembering fun AND getting it published is about as likely as me shitting out a unicorn and then riding happily into the sunset.
There is already quite alot, Quicksilver Camaras/Mortis Optigrams, Mage Cuffs, Lucifer Lamps, and FAB, which powers the cuffs and lamps, and also works as a WMD.
Also a number of security oriented magical plants exist, most of which were altered via selective breeding and/or genetic engineering to improve their usefulness or practicality.
IC, fortunately. Guy was weird though.
Er, wanna try explaining what you want that one again? There aren't really any rules for drones assisting you with a Teamwork test for shooting or shit like that.
I still don't get all the fapping behind that.
>it doesn't play nice with custom stuff
What did you have in mind?
My friend really wants to run Shadowrun, he loves the world and everything about it, but he says the mechanics are really hard and that it takes over an hour to make a character sheet or npc.
This was an older edition, we're talking about here, but is this true and are newer editions better?
The mechanics aren't particularly difficult in most cases, but yes, it does take a while to make a character.
The priorities can be.. interesting, but if you could give me an example of what you wanted to do I could probably fab up a custom file.
He's adamant on not running it, which is a bummer because I'm positive he'd be a great GM.
He's saying he wants to use GURPS or another cyberpunk rpg and just set it in the Shadowrun setting.
If you're trying to make your game realistic, fucking with deckers is easy. Restrict accessrights by access point and make a hierarchy of virtual networks. 90% of players are dumbstruck when anything isn't directly linked to the matrix anyway.
Quick question, since I've never seen an answer to this: Can you build a drone out of Cyberware?
I ask because I know about the whole 'brain in jar' full body replacements, and I figured nabbing one of those as my home node and pretending to be human would be fun character. Just replace the part that would be meat with my own CPU.
Maybe I just don't 'get' cyborg/drone rules, but they seem horribly sub optimal compared to what a 'normal' person with some augs can do. In my head, robot arm equals robot arm, so building a man-shaped drone out of cyberware seems doable from a tech perspective, but I don't see any sorts of rules for how one would go about doing that. even in the homebrew side of things.
So why have a decker at all then? The problem with making the Matrix realistic is that you'e then got an archetype that can't do anything except brick shit.
Okay, that's actually fairly easy. This example file will add a Dwarf to priority E without any metavariants. To get what you want, you'd essentially just copy-paste the <metatype> key that has the race you want and dump it into the <metatypes> key for the priority. The <value> key is how many special points you get, <karma> is how much karma you gain or lose to take it.
My entire problem is that I want to avoid doing that EXACT thing.
As far as I can tell, drones all use vehicle modification rules, and have a laughable percentage of the power and functionality of cyborg limbs. How is it that my robot body, which is the same size and shape as a human, has roughly ten percent the capacity for upgrades/enhancements as a normal person's cyberware? When I don't have to worry about shit like a digestive system, or lungs. Even if that shit was replaced by batteries, I should, at minimum, be able to contain just as many retractable knives in my person as the average street sam.
If I have a dramatic misunderstanding of the rules, then I would love a correction, but from what I've seen I would have more room for built in weapons and combat options it I were to bolt a high quality cyberarm to a segway then to just live in a straight up combat droid allegedly designed for murder.
Besides which, part of the appeal is the idea for passing as human. If I have a standard issue cyberarm like anybody else, I could go to the same doctors/mechanics as anybody else for help without arousing suspicion. Crunch and fluff heavily implies that the difference between auged up dude and robot wrapped in synth-skin is obvious from across the room to anybody familiar with the subject as well, which is another pitfall I was trying to avoid.
When you make accessing a network hard it becomes a team effort. The infiltrator puts a wireless connector in a port wit access rights, the face gets the decryption code via blackmail the decker evades the spider till the paydata is secured and the street Sam does all the actual work since everyone else will mess things up.
Alright /srg/, Tell me your favorite and most "cinematic" places you've held runs. I need ideas for set pieces. Racing along highways, and inside nightclubs, abandoned warehouses, and back alleys don't count.
Okay, so you've now got a decker who's completely helpless without a team to back him up for anything more than knocking over mom-and-pop stores or people that leave their Wi-Fi set to the default password. While it's a creative method of ensuring that the team has another reason to work together, it still nullifies the archetype quite a bit.
Nah, I only recommend using override files to ensure that if I push an update it doesn't break your stuff. Override files are only special in that they attach a prefix to the document. So You could do override_racialshenanigans_priorities.xml and it'd work fine. The only important part is that it starts with override and ends with the file you're changing. The code looks up the name of the xmlnode and compares it to the override file node's name. If they match, the override gets to go in instead.
If true that's cool, but if that's stated anywhere I've either missed it or it was worded as confusingly as hell. Extrapolating from there, having a custom 'cyberware' body or an off the shelf drone thing you're talking about would be pretty much just cosmetic.
I'm gonna go back and see if I can get a more solid answer out of the rule-books on that note, especially 4th.
I'll be honest and say I'm biased, and so grain of salt and all that. But maybe, just maybe, I would be more inclined to trust Catalyst and play 5e if it wasn't such an obvious and deliberate 'fuck you' to anyone who enjoyed 4th.
Cyberware seems like it would require a much more complex control setup than drone bits, even humanoid ones, just because they're designed specifically to be controlled by a meat brain.
It's in the nightlies, proper release is delayed for reasons that mostly involve me being lazy.
Nil desperandum, omae.
If anything that's a point in my favor as far as the 'why is android shit compared to cyborg' complaint. Which, admittedly, I might be wrong about, and am researching further now.
Speaking as somebody with an engineering background, X being superior to Y when X is riddled with problems and limitations that Y does away with by virtue of existing struck me as.... odd.
While you're being honest, I should probably point out that cybermancy is in that section, and has been confirmed for a later book or pdf.
I haven't been a massive fan of the way CGL is handling 5e either, with cybermancy and brainjars coming in a separate release just adding to the pile of reasons not to fork out money for their products.
You know, just sounding off on the whole 'android/full body Cyborg' thing here too: How exactly do you determine the 'drone's' physical stats? I mean shit like the strength score.
In 4e at least, haven't played fifth, as far as I can tell there's JUST rules for drones as a vehicle. But like, if I were playing a people shaped robot wielding a sword, and strength is used to determine damage, but robots have no listed strength score or obvious way of determining one, how the fuck does that work out?
Admittedly, I mostly play awakened characters, so I don't know that much about the augmentation part of the rules. But it's very non-obvious at least in 4e.
Shadowrun's rules are something of a poorly written clusterfuck.
In other breaking news, there's a giant bright orb of fire flying across the sky, and shockingly nobody seems alarmed.
I actually have that as a thing in my Shadowrun games. Various Johnsons, fixers, and their affiliated corporations and criminal syndicates have a fund the channel money into, which pays personable and talented runners to show rookies the ropes until they've lost a bit of their green.
It's a nice compromise that allows them to keep the talent pool for 'independent/deniable assets' skilled and full while still killing anybody who they catch trespassing on a run.
It's a great way to break new players into the system, since having a prime runner preventing them from making OBVIOUS mistakes and then leaving when they no longer need the training wheels eases them in, and the lucrative paycheck for dealing with n00bs keeps the arrangement from breaking the suspension of disbelief even in the most lethal and cynical interpretations of the setting.
It's also a good way to incite drama; a half assed trainer not preparing the team (yours or someone else's) properly is a classic example.
A couple runs ago my group (Basically a KE penal shadow squad, because why not) smashed our Roadmaster into a corporate airfield to physically block a small private jet before it left the country. Had a lot of discussion beforehand on whether or not we should take it straight through the glass lobby to get to the tarmac. Rigger fishtailed it into two security guards and covered one side with a linked AR mounted in the trunk ceiling. The rest of the team blew the jet door clean off, popped a Neuro-Stun gas grenade inside, and extracted our mark (Some AZT goon, I think).
We managed to run off, but when we stopped off in a posh suburban neighborhood to pick up a valued informant on our way back to the safe house. She made it halfway across her yard before we got jumped by a half a dozen nuts ass butts ass razorboy assassins from every direction.
We tend to be loud, I guess.
Shadow run has always had a problem keeping the whole team involved simultaneously and more-or-less equally, and the decker is the worst offender here. You need to crack down hard on the decker's tendency to monopolize everyone's time at the table. Adepts and faces run into this, too, but it's not quite as bad for them. As written, the decker spends way too much time faffing around alone with all the stuff that's plugged into the matrix for no good reason, while everyone else stands around and waits for him to finish.
Hey guys, I'd like to GM a shadowrun game with some close friends soon. In terms of d20 systems we've basically only done D&D (2nd-5th over two decades) they're basically all "those guys" in terms of power gaming, heckling, and rule-skirting. I was thinking of running a 4e with limited rulebooks concerning evolved and other...semi-gamebreaking shenanigans. Should I do 5e instead? I was planning on doing food fight and then letting them make their own power-snowflakes if they want. What do you all think - 4e abridged, or 5e houserules? Sorry in advance if this sparks an edition war.
That was kinda my impression; I want to let them have snowflake capabilities to draw them into the world (I'm the only one who's semi-familiar with it) but I want to limit it away from whatever super-cheesy builds they might be able to cobble together. What books do you think I should bar? They don't do super-grimdark things or hard-core rape fantasies or anything, but they definitely will spend several dozen hours to max/min their build to prioritize their desires. One is a dedicated tank, one always bitches if anything impinges on his damage capabilities, one does dedicates mage, and the perma-DM usually just does supporting roles. I've been trying to figure out the right mixture of roleplaying and powergaming to draw them in. We'd primarily be doing pink mohawk jobs I'd guess. Any suggestions?
>A hole in the wall net cafe during a sick matrix-speed rap battle
>An hastily abandoned town in the NAN, in the fog (also there's ghosts)
>In one character's auto shop, beating the soy out of some dumbass ganger for interrupting Coke and Sex Night
>Chasing an accidental bioweapon out of a medical clinic and down the feggin street
Point out to them that because of party splits, over specialization will hurt them badly. You can get 40 dice to longarms, but if you roll 1 die on etiquette, you're boned. The game rewards a level of generalization.
Also, a 1 in an attribute isn't a baseline, it's the equivalent of a 3 in an ability score. 3 is human average.
I'd start with something a little easier. It's real crunch heavy, and if you don't have a sense of how the rules work, as well as a real in depth knowledge of the setting, you're gonna have a bad time.
Once you get one system under your belt, it's a great second though.
OK... Yeah I think that'd help with them. I know that the general consensus is that each char. can fill 2 roles, so I'll try to stress that and hope that someone doesn't end up as decker/face. I think food fight will help with that, but I suppose I will need to police for that. Thanks chummer.
You might love it. But like the other guy said, be prepared for a lot of reading. If you get into it, you can find a lot of old Shadowrun novels around to get a good sense of the flavor. Some were pretty good.
5e because limits and lower power level overall.
Don't worry too much about minmaxing because you can maybe dump one or two stats without completely gimping yourself. One or two out of nine (or 10 for Awakened characters).
You know you can just put a time limit on the job and have the decker do his work while the team is infiltrating the site. It all runs off the same inititive system. If the matrix works like it is presented in the books ie. All matrix connected and not some insane labrinth of systems within systems then the decker should be progressing though at the same spead as the rest of the party. AR decking is a thing after all.
A thing to remember is how rare deckers are, sure there is a heap of scrip tweakers but full on deckers are rare. Take seattle for instance; of it population there is at best 1% of its population activly shadowrunning ; half of which are above street level; a 10th of which are deckers (because decks are super expensive and hard to use) and half again are whom has found a team to run with. That leave us with 0.0025% in a city with a population of multiples of millions. There is proberly triple that number in spiders and GOD agents (lets face it corp life is secure) and triple that is IC.
Any mention of the tech level? I assume it's just a few steps above our commercial spaceflight currently that gets people to and from orbital habs and the moon/mars.
Also are aliens in the sixth world or are we still alone in the universe?
the 1 ~ 3 that the other anon gave would help quite a bit in my game... I hope. I realize it's not quite a 1-to-1 relation but it's hard to build equivalency between a d6 and a d20 system.
Help a chummer out, /srg/. Remember seeing a build a month or so ago for a Shadowrun cowboy. I want to say it was a Street Sam rather than a gunslinging adept, more or less entirely built on having fuckheug revolvers that were manually reloaded. I don't suppose anyone is familiar with that build?
I was mostly just looking for help in the arsenal and general 'do this and don't fucking do this' parts of the build. Shadowrun virgin as far as the tabletop goes, but I finally managed to get myself a group. More or less just looking to play a human or ork cowboy-styled runner. Fuckheug revolvers, longarms optional, armored duster required.
CBEDA or CAEDB For an ork Gunslinger.
BAEDC or BCEDA For an ork Gunlinger with some Edge.
DBECA for a Boring human gunslinger.
Buy attribute and Initiative boosting Augments, Maybe some armour augs too. Get good at Pistols, Perception, Sneaking, Con + Anything else you want (Shoot, See, Sneak, Speak).
Buy the Lined coat for flavour. Take distinctive style. Wear a ballistic Cowboy themed mask. Buy a Ruger Super Warhawk. Fill in the blanks.
The critical difference between Shadowrun and D&D has nothing to do with the type dice, and everything to do with Dice Pools.
Saying X stat equals Y Stat in another system isn't bad math, it's completely meaningless.
For example: In most cases of D&D, you can't crit-fail a skill check. So that means the minimum number you can roll in a skill check is going to be skill level+Attribute Bonus+1. Every time that number goes up, your result RANGE stays consistent, but the minimum competency is always trending upwards. it's also a complete shot in the dark as to which result on the 1-20 range in going to grace your dice.
Shadowrun meanwhile, has a constantly growing RANGE of possibilities, but with competence trending towards the median and up. Every given roll is more predictable, and the extremes are more of a statistical outlier.
The core mechanical difference, by utilizing a dicepool instead of a flat roll, means it takes an entirely different approach to probability.
Grab a smartlink (I'm a fan of the external smartlink personally), Concealed quickdraw holster and maybe a gecko grip so they'll have trouble ripping it from your cold dead hands.
Alternatively, make it a throwback revolver that was actually used in that era, maybe make it your emotional attachment or something. Go nuts.
This is what you do with a Warhawk. Get the Large firerate mod to make it automatic, slap an expanded cylinder on it, and carry four. Don't reload, cause you shouldn't need to after four short bursts.
>Assuming you meant sell
It's the best handgun in the game. Period. Sure there are other guns that are more concealable, or do slightly more damage, but that's not the point.
It's damage is solid, it's compatible with pretty much any mod in the game (unlike the warhawk, for instance, which as a revolver can't reload as fast, has less ammo per load, can't be silenced/suppressed, etc) and it's cheap enough that even after you've blinged it to an embarrassing degree it's still cheap as hell. It is to the shadows what the AK-47 is to third world militia: It's high quality, easy to maintain, and fucking everywhere. Getting a license, fake or real is as easy as breathing, and it's just GOOD.
Sure it's not going to be as good as a sniper rifle or a shotgun in a prolonged firefight, but there's no reason not to carry three of them everywhere and swapping and dropping weapons is faster than reloading ESPECIALLY if you sprung for a better holster.
It just occupies the most optimal choice slot in the gun rules: Good enough in every way that matters, with no real weaknesses.
It's honestly the one gun I say everyone should have. Sure, get any and all guns you want, just make damn sure a Predator is one of them. Been my sidearm of choice since my first run well over a decade ago and I've never had cause to regret it.
Hi /srg/, guest from /v/. Has any of you played the recent Shadowrun Returns video games series (any of the 3)? What did you think of it in terms of setting / mechanics / lore - was it a fair treatment?
As someone whose closest encounter with SR was Never Deal With a Dragon (like a millennia ago), I fucking loved it, it really made me want to find a group and get a game going, despite not having played a real-life RPG since D&D 2nd edition.
Man, I wish I were getting paid. They could pay me in Predators. I would happily accept.
There are a lot of guns that are on a 1-1 better than a Predator: You get better range from rifles, better damage from shotguns, etc.
There is just no reason to NOT have them AND a Predator. There just isn't. And please note, I was specifically asked to SELL someone on the gun. Of COURSE I'm going to talk it up when I love it and someone asks me to explain why.
I played the first two, and largely yes. A lot of mechanics sadly don't translate to vidya well, but the writing was decent in Returns and Excellent in Dragonfall.
I'm gonna go on record and say that it's the best Video Game(s) that SR has gotten.
The only (minor) complaint that I have is that they all take place 'early' in the setting. SR4-5 are the most popular right now, and it's 2070+ while the games take place like 20 years earlier. So like, if you wanted to join a game, you'd need to deal with the fact that we elected a Dragon president; broke the internet AGAIN, and finally installed WiFi since those stories happened.
Is there a book in 5e that has a lot of preset corpsec NPCs like 4e had? Planning a run for a group that has a mage thay loves to mind control his way out of problems so I need to plan ahead much more than usual.
This gun was not the Predator, which incidentally is the only Ares product I back without hesitation.
I judge these things on a case to case basis: if something is good, I will praise it and buy it. If something is bad, I will condemn and mock it.
>but the writing was decent
The writing in Dragonfall (and later in Hong-Kong) really was great; but I have to say, I expected a little more cheese ("chummer", "ganger", "never make a deal with a dragon") which wasn't really there - I don't know if the RPG is also played tongue-in-cheek like that, or if that lingo is really just a caricature of the SR talk.
Yes and no?
The thing is, Shadowrun first came out in the 80's, and was therefore subject to whatever brand of madness thought that dressing like you were a colorblind skittle and making David Hasslehoff famous were good ideas.
Like, original Shadowrun had some VERY dumb fluff, like Orcs giving birth in litters and Elves living in magically grown trees and being incapable of digesting meat or some bullshit.
The derp was filtered out over later editions, and the setting ended up changing dramatically with 4e becoming more modern cyberpunk instead of 80's future-land.
The Shadowrun Returns line is largely what 1st edition shit should have been, from a modern perspective: As much of the 'retro/cool' shit as they could stuff in, without allowing the 'Jesus Christ this is dumb' aspects in.
I'm going to be completely honest here: I've never been in a situation where a full-auto sidearm was smart, much less optimal. All sorts of rifles, and on one memorable occasion a Rocket launcher, but never a handgun.
Thanks, but I was looking for a larger variation like the 4e books had like the one on Mercenaries and the like. The 5e rulebook examples are functional, but a bit barebones for my liking. Still, they'll work alright for this run.
It's pretty accurate to the time period, however, SRR takes place in the 2050s, and the most current editions (4e, 5e, good luck finding a group for anything else) are all set in the 2070s.
4e does have a 2050 splatbook, but generally the differences are
>The matrix broke again
>Bioware and lots of it
>Everything is wireless
>Cyberdecks are no longer skateboards, they are ipads.
New GM here, trying to figure out how competent to make the NPCs. (5e)
In my head, a grunt ganger could probably not afford the cost of WR 1, but at the same time a ganger with 6 + 1d6 doesn't seem to pose much of a threat. Am I just underestimating the lethality of a dicepool of 6-9 with one initiative pass?
Also, have your gangers/mall cops use a modicum of tactics. Even gangers can be pretty scary in numbers if they make good use of suppressing fire from their otherwise dinky SMGs and throw a couple of flash-bangs.
Cram is even cheaper and it gets you high for HOURS. Also the bonus is not as good as you'll have with jazz. Jazz should be a combat stimulant of choice for the prepared people while Cram is something you do when synthalcohol gets boring.
Easier to get your hands on. Gangers definitely don't give the slightest fuck about legality, but they need the connections to get the good stuff.
Frags, higher-end guns and basic cyberware is the step above 'average gangbanger/street scum/mall cop'.
Got a question. When can I take an immediate action e.g. full defense? Can I do it as someone else is taking their turn, say the DM says "the ganger shoots his gun at you" can you say "I subtract 10 initiative and make a full defense maneuver"?
Oh, cool. At what point can I not do it? Say, the DM has rolled the shooting dice but not rolled for damage- can I do it then? Can I do it after the damage is rolled? (I figure that's probably not allowed but good to be sure)
Quick question about technomancers in 4e
Can they thread Activesofts and Knowsofts? If so, do they require Biowires echo to do so? I'm very hazy on the rules here and wondering if there's RAW for it and where I have missed it.
What's a good code of honor in the current books for an ork who's all about the whole "warrior spirit, respect worthy foes, slay your enemies, protect your allies" sort of thing?
Got a player who's making something new and her concept would really work best with a Code of Honor.
Code of Honor doesn't specifically lock you into the books codes of honor, you can make up your own.
A warriors code would probably be
>Respect your opponents
>Kill your enemies
>Protect your friends
I know that (I just don't have the books on-hand), but is there something similar already in the books in Run Faster?
She likes to use world-specific stuff so she can fit in with the setting better if at all possible.
This sounds more like what you're looking for.
>Cyberdecks are no longer skateboards, they are ipads
This is disappointing. That's like telling me Santa Claus these days delivers his gifs from the back of a transit. I know reindeer and sled isn't functional but it's part of the charm.
I JUST NOW saw it too. My gut reaction was "Fuck, they just released this game and they're ALREADY selling fucking DLC?!", but then I saw it was for free for all existing customers and the full edition is 50% off, so my hat off to them. This is great news, I was aching for more SR gameplay of any kind.
My one complaint about the game (and I do mean my one and only serious complaint, here), is that it's far too easy for my taste. I had to play on Hard and I still mostly breezed through combat.
Hey, and it comes with 1.5 hours of dev commentary! Cool cool cool. If anyone's having doubts, if you like turn-based combat and the SR setting, get this game. You will be doing lots and lots of reading but the writing is phenomenally good.
Yeah, I wasn't expecting anything that deep at all, the dialogue with Gaichu also caught me by surprise. They're actually more interesting characters than your main group (Gobbet, Is0bel).
Is0bel is pretty shit
Gobbet is nice in a "Older sister who fucks with you" way
But yeah, Racter and Gaichu both had some really nice philosophical discussions.
I really liked Gaichu's box of trinkets.
Hey there chummers, my decker's deck is fried. It's my first game, so I wasn't careful enough in regards to GOD. In addition to the fact that next session I'm getting hunted down
by this entirely broken organization designed to eliminate the viability of a character archetype, I now have no deck. Should I just ask the GM if I can scrub the character? Tough it out, take out loans, and try to buy a deck on credit or something?
How the fuck did you accumulte enough points for GOD to even notice you? It takes like 50 to summon them in a meaningful format and you can restart your deck (or brain if you're a techno) to get rid of them
Sounds like either your GM is a dick, or has some storyline up his sleeve that's being put into action the wrong way. You should have had no OS from those actions. Talk to them and see what's up. They might just have the matrix rules wrong
Hrm. An accessory would probably do it; what're the actual rules for it?
hi /tg/, d&d dm here
I was hoping to get into this game and taking a glance at the rulebook. A friend of mine is trying to learn the rules and I've decided I'd try to help him out by reading along the 5e shadowrun core book with him.
Took a quick look at 1d4chan about it, and read this:
>Consensus is that Catalyst Game Labs cannot into editing and the line editor is allergic to both errata and criticism. Every book has slapdash organization, with game rules scattered throughout fluff sections rather than being collected into a single chapter for simple reference. Important Matrix info like rules for encryption and decryption aren't in the core book, instead promised in a later Matrix-focused book that took about two years to hit the shelves. The writers are also Third Edition grognards who brought the priority system back as the default character generation method and continue to uphold the katana as the most awesome melee weapon evar. And the trillions of granular rules and redundant skills for every little occasion combine all the ballast and scuttle of every previous edition, with little effort made to modernize.
Looks pretty grim. Should I go back to previous editions of shadowrun instead?
I'm not quite sure why you would look at 1d4chan desu.
Shadowrun 5 has a lot of problems, in particular the editing, as mentioned, but it is still very servicable, especially if you haven't played 4th.
Seems like you need the skillsoft you want to use and the Biowire echo. Then you have to emulate (Unwired p.149) the skillsoft into a usable complex form. This complex Form has the same rating as the original skillsoft and can be learned with (Rating+Program Option Rating) Karma
The editing is pretty shit tier, but that isn't new for SR. The only book I find basically I can't use sections of is Street Grimoire, which is the worst. I don't like Data Trails either but that is at least for mechanics reasons vs. 'oh god what the fuck is even happening here'.
rigger 5 is a poorly-edited piece of shit
you fucks included gyro stabilization on three of the motorcycle statblocks, mentioned it in the fluff for two more but those two don't have it in stats for some fucking reason, and there's no fucking rules for it
and smart tires aren't explained anywhere either
What is the most evil thing someone has ever done in one of your games /srg/? Shadowrunners tend toward the moral grey at best, but I'm sure some of you have done some real messed up stuff.
A solid case could be made for playing fourth instead, entirely on the grounds that the 20th anniversary edition rule book is the best formatted and written SR rule book ever made. Which, in all honesty, is kinda damning with faint praise.
Honestly, the bit you should worry about isn't the basic rules, because those have cheat sheets and mnemonics to help you figure them out.
No, the part you should worry about is how to create a run. Arguably the most critical part of the game, and the one part to so thoroughly receive no explanation or tutorial either first or third party it reeks of deliberate spite.
The total lack of an explanation is made worse by how complex the rules can be, and how fucking impossible eye-balling an appropriate challenge rating can be for people who don't know the system. Combine that with the fact that Shadowrun isn't so much a game as it is three largely unrelated rulesets crudely bolted together, and you've got a clusterfuck of truly epic proportions.
Murdered my entire running team.
There was this guy who was a blood mage, acting like edgy McEdgerson, and was killing a lot of homeless people and orphans to fuel some kind of super-long term blood ritual he was conducting.
Party tracked him down, on a vague lead from a Johnson that someone was causing a rukus, and we stumbled into some heavy shit.
We get into his sanctum, and the party starts arguing with him instead of shooting, while my hacker immediately decides to blow the bad juju all to hell and starts planting bombs everywhere. Eventually the conversation takes a turn for the civil, and my party decides to help the guy.
At which point, I very calmly went outside and hit the detonator, to everyone's apparent shock.
After the dust had settled, I went back into the wreckage to make sure EVERYONE was dead. The GM, maybe giving me a chance to change my mind had me come across one of my party members, slowing digging their way out and asking me 'why'. I executed him gangland style. Then I called the cops, told the EXACTLY what went down, and called the Johnson to tell him the problems we had to deal with.
The group basically ended on the spot, but first everyone was angrily demanding why I did something so blatantly backstabby. At which point I found out nobody except the GM had done more than skim the fluff, so they didn't know about the Always Chaotic evil Blood Mage alignment, or how it's how you commit acts of cybermancy, or how every Dragon hated it and hunted them ruthlessly, or the massive outstanding bounty, or etc.
I was promptly ejected from the group, for not understanding 'what Shadowrun was all about'. Because, you know, it isn't about being a runner being a mercenary of sorts in a messed up world, it's all down to how badly you want to destroy Seattle via Dragon war.
I was going to kill PCs and a couple of escaped test subjects for a hmhvv cure after acquiring the research on said cure by blowing them up along with the research facility in exchange for a job at SK.
But the group fell apart right before the run due to new found jobs.
Thank you for reminding me this existed. It's getting its own special section in the Pastebin, as too many people come here not knowing what to do when faced with a scary new group. It'll be good to have some solid advice pre-written to give people when they ask what they should do as a new GM.
>20th anniversary edition rule book is the best formatted and written SR rule book ever made
Doesn't do anything for the poor mechanics, though.
Truth is, the best edition of SR is the one you kludge together into a satisfactory functional mess yourself.
I did mention the 'faint praise' and how it was kinda 'damning'.
I mean, look at how things worked out before: 3rd edition you could roll literally millions of dice.
4th edition had some power-creep issues and lawnchair hackers ruled the world.
5th edition I can't comment on, as even as a veteran of the shadows and poorly written systems, I cannot decipher what they were smoking, much less how they shat out a book that poorly presented. Multiple times.
Are there injecitble rounds? Basic needle from gun stuff like we have irl to tranqulize animals and shit? I'm sure there are, but do you need a special gun to work with them or has Ares once more paved the way to a brighter future by inventing injectible ammo that works with guns of many types?
What do you mean by "lawnchair hackers" and what was so broken about them?
There are injection darts in the 4e main book and capsule rounds in 4e's arsenal. No idea about 5e.
Since they break open I guess that they don't unless you mix it with DMSO which I personally would rule means a reduced dose. If you want to use injection poisons use the DMSO Super Soaker (Ares S-III Super Squirt)
Ehhh, with it all based on range there's no real presentable way to do it. I could push some extra detail into the range labels I guess? How would you want to see it?
>What do you mean by "lawnchair hackers" and what was so broken about them?
tl;dr everyone could be a hacker, because the only real cost was nuyen. You didn't need a lot of skill, you just needed a decent link and some agents to do the heavy lifting for you. The general complaint is that it made deckers redundant.
Shadows of Hong Kong is pretty neat so far.
>There are injection darts in the 4e main book and capsule rounds in 4e's arsenal. No idea about 5e.
How much did they cost? I'm sure updating them to 5e is pretty straighforward since they'd just carry a dose of whatever you load it with.
You could fab one up, I guess. Mine's got all the 'nice' choices made as an elf whip decker, I could upload it somewhere.
>Cyberware above gangers
>What are boostergangs