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Warmahordes General
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File: Skorne-BE_Post.jpg (86 KB, 520x669) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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Tasty Skorne Tears Edition

Warmachine/Hordes Books, No Quarter, & IKRPG
>textuploader <dot> com / 5f980
PP Youtube (gameplay tutorials, tournament coverage, and announcements)
>https://www.youtube.com/user/PrivateerPressPrime
List building at
>https://www.forwardkommander.com
>http://schlaf.github.io/whac_online/whac.html
Latest Errata
>http://privateerpress.com/files/WM%20MKII%20Rules%20Errata%20Jan%202016.pdf
Steamroller Rules
>http://privateerpress.com/organized-play/steamroller-tournaments
The Giant List of Podcasts and Blogs
>http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?76379-Warmachine-Hordes-related-blogs-websites-and-forums
Table of contents for all NQ issues
>http://www.privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?4313-Table-Of-Contents-For-All-No-Quarter-Issu
Your Dudes
>http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-2-3-2014
Abridged Lore
>gargantuans abridged:http://pastebin.com/XPKMKYUc
>hordes abridged:http://pastebin.com/6D1fwSgv

Lexicanum Iron Kingdoms Lore wiki:
>http://warmachine.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page
>>
Anybody play gators? I'm just getting in to them. Looking for any tips
>>
>>45203445
Acquire three units of Posse and two units of Croaks
>>
>>45203651
>>45203445

And a sacral vault
>>
I gave Makeda a wash ~~
>>
>>45203875
Oh god I hadn't checked the picture before uploading. That looks fucking hideous with my camera.
>>
>>45203912
Good, realizing your mistake is the first step to correcting it.
>>
>>45203961
What if it's too late? What if I've already sent a large portion of my tank force towards the Eastern Front in an attempt to take Moscow before the winter hits?
>>
My FLGS has a Spell Draft tourney coming up.

Normally I treat these as simply fun and go pure casual mode (last one I ran Vayl + 1 pot, 2 Shepherd, and 18 lessers)

But there's this one WaaC-asshole that's coming to this one. He almost single handedly destroyed our meta a while back by being a general jackass to every new player.

I want to go with the best option I have for this thing. Hopefully to shit on his parade.

He plays Cryx, I have play Legion and Khador.
>>
>>45204088
Make sure neither you nor any of your allies start shit with another country that isn't directly involved yet.
And when you run into serious resistance along the way, don't bother breaking through at all costs, just bypass it focus on your main goal.
>>
Is anyone else here going to the Las Vegas Open?
>>
My FLGS is doing a Who's the Boss Tourney. Bring a caster with a 25 point army, and you get someone else random caster. i am not going because I am new, but have anyone else ever done something like that? Was it any fun?

Here is another question: How many war gaming tables does your gamestore have? Mine only has three, and one you could possibly play two games on. Most nights, within the 6-10 warmahordes night, I only get about one game in, maybe two. Should i find somewhere new?
>>
>>45204498
>Bring CoC army with almost all vectors
>laugh when you get Butcher and have MAT 9 vectors
>>
>>45204498
>Bring eMorghoul and a solid list that doesn't need him
>Randomly get eMorghoul

fug :-DDD
>>
>>45204498
It would be cool to see the reverse of that. Build a 25 point army and bring a Warcaster. Then trade armies in a pool.
>>
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>>45193547
Gotta be ruin. I'm a sucker for Khadoran warjacks, but Ruin's rules, fluff, and model itself are just awesome. Big scary death robot who's "malevolently aware" a la Terminator and just as scary on the table as he is in fluff? Sign me up.
>>
>>45204498
My store does one of these every 2-3 months, except it's 50 points. Draw two casters, pick one, and you can't get a caster from your faction. It's usually good fun. Last time I got EGrissel in Mercs, and spent every game trying to shove a Dash-buffed Savio Acosta down their caster's throats.
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>>45204546
I always main coc in who's the boss. Harby is hilarious
>>
>>45205558
I mean, the 10 focus is nice, but MAT 3 and RAT 1?
>>
>>45204498
Depending on the size tables you need for the game it changes, but when playing Warmhordes on 4x4s my local run at least 16 tables.

I haven't played Who's the Boss, but it sounds fun.
>>
>>45205640
I was about to say harby hits automatically and has no gun, but then I realised CoC is made out of unicorns and glitter fairies so Harby would be no bueno
>>
>>45206061
There are 4 4x4 tables.
>>
>>45204211
legion

either play vayl 2 and get all the cost 3 or 4 destruction spells asap

or abby 2/ thagrosh 2 and go all out to get synergy
>>
>>45205640
That's why she's hilarious.

It's funny how CoC makes bad casters amazing and amazing casters bad.
>>
>>45207841
Harkevich is a fucking terror in CoC.
>>
>>45207601
>either play vayl 2 and get all the cost 3 or 4 destruction spells asap
That's one of the things I was thinking of doing. Just a basic self-sufficient Legion list (probably just her theme list) and go for max dakka with the spells.

My other thought was Butcher3 and try to get the movement spells like Wind Rush and Cyclone.

>or abby 2/ thagrosh 2 and go all out to get synergy
That was my goal with the lesser spam with my last list. I found out after the day was over and we all compared spells that synergy wasn't even in the pool.
>>
>>45208357

>synergy wasn't even in the pool

well that's disappointing lol maximum dakka is what I recommend then. people usually draft Nuke spells last so you can get them all
>>
>>45203071

>Skorne has no gods, only erratas edition
>>
>>45208392
The PG had like 20-something card packs, and we only had 8 people. It may have been in one of the packs that wasn't being drafted.
>>
>>45207885
And Menoth, 4 shots from a Reckoner on feat turn is pretty amazing.
>>
How bad would a feora/thyra pair be.
Both are pretty _fun, and it would be a fluffy combination
>>
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We always talk about what's shit, so let's do something different. I want you to make a list of only models you like. Fuck the meta, forget what's best. Give me your 50pt shits and giggles lists.

Artificer General Nemo (+3pts)
Thunderhead (12pts)
Storm Tower (2pts)
Storm Tower (2pts)
Stormblade Infantry (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Stormblade Infantry Officer & Standard (3pts)
3 Stormblade Infantry Storm Gunner (3pts)
Stormguard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (9pts)
Storm Strider (9pts)
Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator (1pts)
Stormblade Captain (2pts)
Stormblade Captain (2pts)
Stormsmith Stormcaller (1pts)
Stormsmith Stormcaller (1pts)
Stormsmith Stormcaller (1pts)

LIGHTNING FOR EVERYONE
>>
>>45207885
>broadsides accel and cascade AND feat

And also based karchev.
>>
>>45209335
Depends on the lists and which version of Feora?
>>
>>45204211
Don't get on his level. If he's being a dick to everyone, tell him to fuck off. If he's merely bringing strong lists, man the fuck up.
>>
>>45204498
>I am not going because I am new
Go anyway. 25 points sound like the perfect beginner event.
>>
>>45205444
He's a cool big dude, I agree, and even cooler with that warpwolf skin on its shoulder. He totally has a "Who's next?" attitude too.
>>
>>45207885
Ashlynn is boss in CoC, dat MAT 8 RAT 7.
>>
>>45209389
Karchev is scarier in hordes, especially factions like Legion or Circle which can circumvent his major weaknesses.

Karchev in coc is basically concentrated syntherion, pretty same-o same-o
>>
>>45209335
Feeling a bit of redundancy despite the fact that they do it differently.
kill tarpits, check
threaten casters, check
both demand pathfinder check
no denial or control element, check
>>
I just got a unit of Idrians and their UA for $20. I don't play Brotectorate, but I've been thinking of picking them up as my second WM faction and $20 seemed like a good deal. Which casters do they work best with? And what else should I get besides the staples like the vassal, choir, reckoner etc.?
>>
>>45210961
The High Reclaimer likes them for assassination shennanigans.
>>
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I just got this as a new project. I used Cryx years ago but usually played pGaspy, any tips on how to wreck faces with eDeneghra?
I know the banes are absolutely horrifying. The Riders are also a new addition (they didn't even exist when I used to play Cryx) I don't know much about.
How would you advance toward the 50p stretch goal? I guess Tartarus and a skarlock thrall is two solid options, but what else?
>>
>>45209335
Not too good.
They are both focus starved and want the same and/or similar models and both play a similar game.
The main difference is that Thyra will use daughters, can use an arc node and drops against hordes, whilst feora will drop against warmachine.

You could try it. Throw down some lists. Let's get dirty.
>>
>>45211791
Mechanithralls are pretty much always good from what I hear.
>>
>>45212008
With a surgeon that is. And preferably a living unit like Satyxis, though that is optional.

>>45211791
It's kind of hard to find any tournament lists for Denny2 that are not B+S. She suffered from massive loss of popularity after her (much needed) nerf.
>>
>>45212044
your opponent often brings living units, those are sufficient.
>>
>>45212069
Like I said. It's neat if you bring your own.


Here's a list from WTC2015 that is NOT B+S:

Deneghra 2 [Effigy of Valor]
Deneghra 2 -6
Nightmare +10
Deathripper +4
Satyxis Raiders (max) +8
Satyxis Sea Witch +2
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (max) +10
Aiakos +3
Stalker +4
Warwitch Siren +2
Satyxis Raider Captain +2
Gorman di Wulfe +2
Wrong Eye & Snapjaw +9

So I guess anything in this list will work with her, though I don't understand the Stalker on Aiakos.
>>
>>45212088
You could put just about any WJ on aiakos, or not even bother and just use him as a power solo.
He's that good. Much better than any other journeyman caster.
As usual.
>>
Do lesser warlocks get to use the animus of any beast in their battlegroup? MK2 doesn't seem to cover lesser warlocks at all.
>>
>>45212469
Yet another question that could be easily answered by opening up a rulebook.

Primal p. 78, "A model with the Battlegroup Commander and Fury Manipulation abilities can tap the animus of a warbeast in its battlegroup that is in its control area and cast it as if it were a spell of its own."

Every lesser warlock card: "lesser Warlock – This model is not a warlock
but has the following warlock special rules: Battlegroup Commander, Control Area, Damage Transference, Forcing, Fury
Manipulation, Healing, and Spellcaster."
>>
>>45212530
Well then this is yet another case of the rulebook being a poorly organized piece of shit. I checked the part that says a warlock can use the animus of any beast under its control, but apparently was looking in the wrong place to find out if a lesser warlock could use the animus of any beast under its control.
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>>45212544
it does say so on the card.

However, the rulebook is a bit odd, it's getting on a bit now. It reads like law.
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>>45212567
>Implying I have the card yet
I only put my order in at my LGS yesterday.
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>>45212544
The rule I quoted is right under a big ol' heading that says, "Spells and Animi".
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>>45212581
The one I looked at was under, "Animus".
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>>45212449
>You could put just about any WJ on aiakos
But the stalker is kind of weird, as it already has Grievous Wounds.
>>
>>45212567
>It reads like law
And that is a good thing. It is basically the game's law.
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>>45212632
I don't think he was complimenting law.
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>>45212639
I am though.
>>
>>45212626
>as it already has Grievous Wounds.
All that means is Aiakos doesn't need to blow focus to cast it.
Stalkers are killy as fuck for their points if they can get a focus load and they can murder the shit out of casters if they get there, that's really all there is to it.
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>>45212667
>A convoluted mess
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>>45209353
no stormclad?
>>
>>45212741
>meaningless greentext
The rulebook reads like a law text. That is good because it serves a similar purpose as law texts. Are you really too stupid to understand that?
>>
>textuploader <dot> com / 5f980
Wtf? What this mean?
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>>45212808
It's a fucking url.

4chan thinks it's spam if you put in the url normally, so you have to do it weird. Replace the <dot> with a . and get rid of the spaces.
>>
>>45203651
>>45203730
What warlock?
>>
>>45212530
What's also important to remember here, is that lesser warlocks came after Primal. So, of course it won't mention them explicitly since they weren't a thing when it was printed.
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>>45213140
Lesser Warlocks have been a thing since Mk1. Brun, Dahlia, Wrong Eye, and Rorsh premiered in Metamorphosis.
>>
>>45213457
Ah yeah, forgot about them. My mistake.
>>
>>45212449
Hey, Gastonne is really good too. Two magical pow 12 boostable shots is gold and he gets to run away too. Plus there's the 4 point Vanguards.
>>
>>45212685
yep. and ext ctrl range, so aiakos can be 16" away from it. Safe.
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>>45213751
True, but still not quite as good as the cryx one.
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>>45213805
Ha.

Haha.

Alright man.
>>
>>45213805
Nah, I'd argue that he's better. Shooting and scooting keeps him way safer than stealth. It's gonna be hard to get Aikos' points back before he just gets killed in melee, or set on fire, or something that ignores stealth.
>>
>>45213133
Rask is objectively most competitive. Personally I prefer Barnabas.
>>
Not the same guy asking earlier but I'm brand new to the game and I'm trying to pick a faction. I was leaning towards Cryx but I saw Gatormen and I'm really digging it. Would it be a horrible army to start with?
>>
>>45214752
I'd stick with a main faction and get one of the all in one army boxes. They're very good starting places to the game.
>>
>Naaresh has tough

HAHAHA

I NEED TO DO THIS
>>
Anyone try puppet masters yet? They seem like fun.
>>
>>45214752
Any faction is going to be good, there's a learning curve for all of them as you learn both how the game works and how your unique faction can handle it all.

That said, mercs and minions are smaller sub-factions and whilst good will not always have the answers to every question or scenario in the game. It isn't that they're not viable, far from it, gators are in a very good position currently, it's just that the model range is a little smaller so your options are as well.

If you do go gators, try not to limit yourself just to the crocs. Their force includes croaks and bogtrogs plenty. I have a friend who is playing them, and wants a pure only-croc force and his options for the game basically come down to 1 infantry block and 3 warbeasts and then he complains when people can tailor lists to deal with him. Don't be like that guy, guy.
>>
So fill me in on how Minions work. Does each Minions unit have its own unique list of factions that it'll work for, and I can just casually slot as many accepted Minions as I like into my list up to their UA?
>>
>>45217626
With minions you pick a contract or theme list, which determines what units you can take. With minions it boils down to farrow or gators
>>
>>45217626
Mercenary and Minion models/units will each have a list of factions that they can work for.

Mercenary or Minion armies have to be made according to a Theme Force or a Contract/Pact which will define which Mercenary/Minion models may be taken in the army.
>>
>>45217626
Mercs and Minions are composed of several smaller factions. Their individual units will work for other factions on a case-by-case basis (the unit entry will list who is able to take it in a list) and then they work almost just like an in-faction unit. They don't count as in-faction, so certain spells and affects don't work on them when taken like this. Then you have the warcasters/warlocks. If you take these, you're running an exclusively merc/minion list.

Minions are divided into two armies currently. The Thornfall Alliance, Farrow led by Lord Carver, and the Blindwater Congregation, swamp beasts led by Bloody Barnabus.

Every minion model will be divided roughly along these two lines. They have their own infantry, beasts and casters that won't work for the other half of minions.
>>
Last night I had my first week Journeyman games. 1 Win, 1 loss. The win was a much more fun guy to play against, and a very close game. It's got me excited for next week, but I'm trying to think ahead because I'm painting everything before it hits the table.

I'm running Nemo1 at the moment, with his Centurion and Defender. This coming week we hit 15 points and I'm looking at a Journeyman Warcaster to add to the roster. After that I'm not too sure, 25 points opens a lot of options so I'm thinking something like...

Nemo1
-Centurion
Journeyman Warcaster
-Defender
Cpt Arlan Strangewayes
Alexia1 w/9 grunts
Stormsmith Stormcaller
Stormsmith Stormcaller
Stormsmith Stormcaller

My reasoning is to get some repair and some bodies in there that'll also buff Nemo's arcane accumulator. Then the Stormsmiths fill in some points and give me some more options for picking off nasty solo's and support models or just more disruption. Am I making any big mistakes? Anything I should be looking at instead? I considered the TAC but wasn't sure I'd use them right with all their abilities and Alexia has a nicer model to paint.
>>
>>45217592
While I still have no idea what kind of list I'm going to make (or even how to make it) I'd not stick to JUST Gatormen. Like the Croak Raiders look awesome as hell!
>>
>>45209542
>Don't get on his level. If he's being a dick to everyone, tell him to fuck off. If he's merely bringing strong lists, man the fuck up.

You obviously lack reading comprehension.

Last time I brought a casual list, this time I'm planning on a strong list.

This guy fudges constantly (such as nudging his models an extra inch after movement), and also flat out cheats by attempting to activate a model more than once per turn or attempting to distract players so they forget to activate models.

He does this while being an absolute rules Nazi. He demands people to be absolutely perfect in knowledge of the rules, while he himself attempts to bend them. He has outright said that he doesn't consider it cheating unless he gets caught.
>>
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>tfw I buy into a journeyman league with the Khador starter box and actually like the game
>tfw I eventually get Widowmakers, WGDS, eSorcha and am planning on getting Aiyanna and Holt
>tfw I could have saved roughly $60 and got two amazing 'jacks that weren't the Juggy and Destroyer with the All In One Army Box for Khador
>>
>>45218177
Slap him with a rulebook.
What, do you expect to have fun with this person? Ignore him, tell your friends to do the same, report him to whoever organizes tournaments, and see if he will change his ways or not.
>>
got trolls for pretty cheap. coming from legion her's my first 35 point list how does it look?

Madrak Ironhide, World Ender (*5pts)
* Troll Axer (6pts)
* Dire Troll Mauler (9pts)
* Mulg the Ancient (12pts)
Kriel Warriors (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Kriel Warrior Standard Bearer & Piper (2pts)
Krielstone Bearer and 5 Stone Scribes (4pts)
* Krielstone Stone Scribe Elder (1pts)
>>
>>45218261
Our TO didn't care last time he got caught cheating.

Our local group only consists of ~6 people. He's impossible to not run in to.

Myself and another have already refused to play any games with him, but the other 3 keep playing with him just out of necessity. Not every place has dozens of players available for a specific mini game.
>>
>>45218431
Well, that sounds bad.
What is the penalty for cheating on these tournaments? Would he be kicked out, lose the game, or something else?
>>
>>45218431
Or is the organizer entirely not going to give a fuck even if the jackass gets caught in a tournament game?
>>
>>45218543
>>45218520

Last game I played against him was in a tournament.

I called him on cheating and called the TO over. The TO just shrugged and told him to promise not to do it again.
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>>45218679
Damn. Unfortunately I don't have enough expertise in this game and that tournament mode to offer any tips, but you have my best wishes.
Show him the staggering spirit of real Warmahorders, and waste his smug ass!
>>
>>45218679
Oh, and every time he seems to be trying one of his obnoxious tricks, give him your most judgemental stare and say "Jeez, at least TRY to play like you've got a pair!"
>>
>>45218543
>>45218520
Call him out loudly on the slightest fudge on his part.
Video it and post it
if it comes to the worst and he is fudging: you do it too.
don't mark damage
measure from front of base to back of base
roll an extra dice
forget to "spend" focus/fury

if he's being a dick, show him how shit the game is.
>>
>>45218679
Your TO seems almost as much as a dick as the dickhead himself, but I can't entirely blame him if he has to work with a playerbase of 6 people.
>>
>>45218679
Can the store don't do something and just ban the player? Cheating can't be good for business
>>
>>45222262
If they've only got 6 players banning one is going to screw them over potentially more than him being a dick
>>
>>45222004
Our TO isn't a dick, he's just apathetic.

We had a fairly large player base at one point, but it was mostly new people and the TO(who's also our PG) wouldn't show up to the league nights he scheduled. This lead to Douchebag McGee to mercilessly pubstomp the new players just in order to get another win.

Yes, I realize an experienced player will usually win against a new player. But there is such a thing as being a "sore winner" and making the entire match just miserable.

People moved on to other games played in our FLGS that either had a larger population so they could dodge the assholes, or that didn't have a rampant asshole. As a result Malifaux and X-wing took off while Warmachine dwindled.
>>
r8, h8, masterb8 my new baby. Am looking for feedback/ I just want to talk about my new list

Lich Lord Asphyxious (*6pts)
* Deathripper (4pts)
* Helldiver (3pts)
Bane Knights (Leader and 9 Grunts) (10pts)
Bane Knights (Leader and 9 Grunts) (10pts)
Bane Thralls (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Bile Thralls (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Satyxis Blood Witches (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Satyxis Blood Hag (2pts)
The Withershadow Combine (5pts)
Bane Lord Tartarus (4pts)
Saxon Orrik (2pts)
>>
>>45222647
Looks like every other Asphyxious 2 list.
>>
R8 ma mercz Plz,
Ok, so i've faced my first terminus with a giant thrall and his rampaging against my bartolo list with a lot of infantry models... suffice to say, it wasn't pretty. I'm doing a secondary list compromising some more jack heavy list using Ashlyn. Here's the list:

Ashlynn D'Elyse
-Nomad
-Nomad
-Talon
Taryn di la Rovissi, Llaelese Gun mage
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios
Gastone Crosse
-Vanguard
-Vanguard
Arcane Tempest GUn mage Pistoleers
-Arcane tempest Gun Mage Officer
10 Precursor Knights
-Precursor Knight Officer & Standard

I'm planning on just pumping out a lot of magical attacks, cuz fuck you incorporeals, and lower living model counts to add a bunch of jacks to run and charge.

Any idea how i shoul learn this apart from the knights tanking and gun mages dakkaing? while jacks going in to wreck stuff?

thanks
>>
>>45222773
uh exsqueeze me. This one has two units of bane knights and min thralls w/ no UA. Its a radical-ish departure from the norm
>>
Post your favorite Warnoun's feat songs
>>
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>>45223257
Could it really have been anything else?
https://youtu.be/SiOE7FvnK3s
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>>45222925
Banez are Banez. It's not radical enough to notice.
>>
Just got my first set.

What tools do you guys use?

Like, a specific brand? What's unnecessary?

I imagine all I need is cutters, knife, glue, tweezers, and maybe a file?

Army Painter seems to have a decent set.
>>
>>45223257
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJk6gZuPKRE
>>
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>>45223257
https://youtu.be/ldziKLeSroU
just keep forcing those warbeasts

>>45225870
I havent heard this song in forever holy shit
>>
>>45225854
Xacto blade, a good glue (zap a gap is a good one), any type of cutters, and a file.

So yeah, you had it right the first time. You'll need paints too, but there are so many out there that you'll need to experiment to find what you like. P3 works well enough, although their metallics are hit or miss - GW's can fill that gap.
>>
>>45225986
Cheers.
>>
>>45210557
He's more focused on range then syntherion which is some CoC really doesn't have. Mother is to a degree but not like broadside.

Also Kraye in CoC is hilarious.
>>
>>45226976
I'm talking about Karchev
>>
how's madrak 2? what's a good list for him in general? I know he wants kriel warriors
>>
>>45227639
Very good.

Basically any in-faction stuff outside of Runeshapers are good with him.

I'm more of a fennblade fan than krielwarriers with him, but that's a personal choice.

you want burrowers really strongly.
>>
>>45222905
Ashlynn does not run warjacks well, too focus hungry herself. Furthermore, jack heavy with melee jacks in an army with no focus multipliers (typically battlegroup spells) using jacks that max out at P&S 17 is not a threat to any sort of armour skew list in the slightest. I play both mercs and cryx and Ash and Big T are my 2 favourite casters. I'd drop Terminus into that list witout hesitation, as long as at least 1 sacrificial pawn target is alive he'll be basically invincible. In the meantime you have too few attacks to chew through all those tough undead before you get eaten.
>>
>>45227713

I actually don't have any pygs. why do I want burrowers?

also would grim1 be a good pairing?
>>
>>45227734
because burrowers have point blank which means they shoot slug guns at pow 14 as a melee attack. With blood fury, you get a pow 14 weaponmaster attack on a unit that's only 6 pts and can go anywhere unmolested.

As for your second question, it entirely depends on the build. Trolls, outside of tier lists really don't have an obvious build path. If Grim's your infantry killer, Madrak does do a great job at killing armor. I personally don't build pairings like that anymore, but it's a valid way of doing things.
>>
>>45227799

wow I hadn't even thought of that. but since they're using a ranged weapon, they wouldn't get the charge bonus right? so it'd still just be 3 dice at pow 14. still don a bad deal

I like picking 2 casters to learn the faction with that compliment each other and since the lot I got came with madrak 1 and 2, grim 1, and doomie 1 and 2, I figured I'd go ahead and start with what I have.
>>
>>45227853
You don't get the charge bonus, but you get that with the pow 8 pick axe. So you get a 6 pt unit that gets to be mat 6 with fellcaller, mat 8 if set up by chronicler with charge of the trolls.

The pickaxe will hit at pow 8 with 4 dice of damage at charge. The pow 14 is still impressive without the charge bonus.

Only issue is that you don't get to use the slug gun as melee during Madrak's feat since pointblank only works for activation.
>>
>>45227718
ah i see your point yeah i played convergence before so the concept of lacking focus is still hard for me.

what do you run for jacks in ashlyn? better off with mules?
>>
>>45228827
Rocinante is a good bet with Ashlynn, he's a good switch-hitter and makes her harder to kill just by standing there. Never have more than one jack on her, she doesn't have enough focus.

A Mule marshaled to Gun Mages is a good way to get a second jack on the board if you want.
>>
>>45228871
ah ok. so ashlynn is more unit buffer with her feat and spells?
>>
>>45228827
Ashlynn can run Rocinante, Gallant (w Versh) or a Mule pretty good.

I started playing her with Roci but recently switched to a mule for the more powerfull gun and added crit devastation and scenario sillyness.

I had her warjack usually hung back with her acting as a gun platform/mobile shield anyway so I felt that the mule might fit that role better. And who needs guard dog if you aren't ever going to see close combat?
>>
>>45228892
Ash has a great spell list and feat. If only she was FOC 7..

I'm not exactly an expert player only having recently started playing warmahordes but what I learned about ashlynn so far:

>She has little focus.Take things that make her focus stretch further. Sylys and the Gobber Spectator are must-haves for me. Same for a bokur because he can guard her and fight without needing focus even if he is much less durable than a vanguard.
>Don't plan on cycling quicken. Just put it on that one unit and have it stay that way. I tried cycling between nyss and forge guard. Usually you'll need the focus somehwere else.
>Take high def units. Feat + distraction.
>Ashlynn is actually pretty good at range w 2 boostable hand-canon shots + 1 boostable sylysed-up gallows (pow13) per activation.
>Gallows is great
>Distraction is great
>:3
>>
How good is a Bellows Crew for Skorne? Feels like giving it +5sp with pMakeda or something and having it run forward and drop a cloud is exactly what Skorne needs to stop them getting shot to pieces before reaching the front line.
>>
>>45230180
Have a spare point? Take them.
>>
>>45230262
Yeah that's another super nice thing about them. Instead of bumping my handlers up from 4 to 6 to eat that extra point, I can bring a nice little unit that covers one of Skorne's main weaknesses; being melee.
>>
>>45227611
Woops.
>>
>>45222325
You need to remove that kebab.
You might be down one player, but it will be so much better afterwards.
Get together, and refuse to play him. Explain nicely that he's a douchebag cuntwad, and he can kindly fuck himself elsewhere.
Tell him to go play KoW of AoS.
>>
>>45222647
wow check this OC lest plz no steal !
>It's the same old gaspy2 list. No, I'm not sorry, but you've made minor alterations to the same old theme.

Post asphyxious2 with loads of WJs, or uncommon units, and maybe you'll have something interesting to talk about.

Just imagine, I'm not even our resident sourpuss that pisses on everything!
>>
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The Croakening has begun and oh God everything is on fire

Calandra Truthsayer, Oracle of the Glimmerwood - WB: +5
- Trollkin Runebearer
- Glacier King - PC: 18
- Troll Impaler - PC: 5

Viktor Pendrake - PC: 2

Croak Raiders - Leader & 9 Grunts: 8
Croak Raiders - Leader & 9 Grunts: 8
Dhunian Knot - Leader & 2 Grunts: 3
Northkin Fire Eaters - Leader, Grunt, and Pyg Buddy: 4
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 5 Grunts: 4
- Stone Scribe Elder - Elder 1
>>
>>45222905
You know, I've seen something similar to this and it works really well. Oh actually, it isn't so much like your list.

Ashlynn, 2 Nomads
gunmages with marshalled mule
full kayazi
aiyanna and holt
gorman, eiryss
rorsch n brine
wrongeye n snapjaw

something like that. It jams solid, it has 2 heavies and can run them.
Nomads, if nothing else, are cheap, so they can be bait, contest, jam whatever.

Don't you want reinholdt with ashlynn for that second hand cannon shot?
>>
>>45233184
Yep get ready for fire fucking everywhere. Feora will reign supreme in the coming meta.
>>
>>45233254
>Krielstone
I laugh at your puny fire.
>>
>>45233230
If you''re going the super durability route, why not go all in and get Galleon? Ashlynn can gallows enemies out of formation for the Galleon to reel them in the rest of the way (though she'd have to be off to one side to do so rather than hiding behind the Galleon, so maybe with Gastonne and a vanguard?)

Also, you can't use Kayazi or Wrongeye with Ashlynn, they don't work for Highborne and she won't work for anything else. It's a shame, because Bull Snapper Animus would be great for Ashlynn's Galleon, and Ashlynn's quicken would be great on the Kayazi. Oh well, guess it's up to Rag Man and Nyss.
>>
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This guy was pretty fun to paint
>>
>>45233316
>implying that there are no tools to remove a krielstone.
>>
>>45234219
Neat!
>>
>>45233541
looks like i got mixed up in the lists there.
That was a damiano? list a caster with a spell that prevents shooting when you're within 5" of the target unit. Which just happens to be kayazi.
>>
>>45234306
>caster with a spell that prevents shooting when you're within 5"
That's MacBain
>>
>>45234219
looking good.
The bane of frogs has arrived
>>
>>45234362
argh. yes that's the one.
The nomads were bait mostly, rorsh and brine do work before they go down, and wrong eye n snapjaw are really dangerous.
Kell bailoch is in the list too.

So much for ashlynn list advice !!
>>
>>45234266
>Trivially removing seven tough models that are in the back of an army
>In Menoth

Ha, ok anon. Good luck with that.
>>
>>45234219
Did you do any mods to his stance or body? He looks like he's standing up straighter
>>
>>45234910
Not really, just had to keep reattaching his stupid right leg and I think I accidentally improved it.
>>
>>45235451
That's good. I want to get him but was a little worried, all the official pictures make it look like it's a squatting mk1 jack
>>
>>45235494
I thought the same thing. I think the banners make it look like his head is in his crotch, not to mention the fucking giganto-pauldrons.
>>
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>>45234219
Very nice anon. I like it.

Painting related side note, just ordered me an airbrush. Should making painting the new Stormwall much easier.
>>
>>45203912
In general, you want more even, softer lighting. I also suggest taking the photo from closer to level with the miniature, instead of so much above.
>>
What's the regulation with models in tournaments? do all models ahve to be PP miniatures? or can i just get the bases and use GW stuff (hammerers looks nicer than the merc dwarves)...
>>
>>45240458
http://privateerpress.com/organized-play/tournament-conversion-policy
>>
>>45240570
>http://privateerpress.com/organized-play/tournament-conversion-policy

shame :(
>>
I need an aradus sentinel guys. Like, my cyclops raider arrived but only now do I realise how good that animus is on a sentinel. I also need a swamp gobber for stupid reasons.
>>
>>45241106
Why dont you already have gobbers?
>>
So what's the over/under on Vladmir actually going traitor in the future? Still looking at a Winterguard army but considering how I could customize it a little. Are there any modeling guidelines for Umbrey or Llael?
>>
>>45242210
Why would Vlad go traitor?
>>
>>45242210
I'm more interested in Cryx getting the Anthac back desu.
>>
>>45242759
Blood of kings, people wanting to take his family's wealth, to fulfill whatever destiny the hag showed him, to protect Umbrey/declare its independence. I admit I'm still learning the lore but there's like a half dozen reasons he could, but not necessarily because he wants to.
>>
Hey my only pp model is a woldwrath and I would like to use it. What other minis should I buy to go with this in a list?
>>
>>45243887
Eh... Cassius?

Woldwrath is pretty bad.
>>
>>45243880
The Empress has given him the entirety of Umbrey so long as he swears service and has generally stepped back from any meddling in his affairs since then. The act is generally considered smart, because he's been a poster boy for loyalty since then and she gets to appear generous and kind to the rest of populace (whilst sending Zerkova to deal with nobility that think her weak).

At the moment, it looks like the biggest threats are issues with Cygnar, Cryx, Protectorate or even Llael attacking Khador and having to go through his lands and people, which would just harden him against invaders rather than turn him against his queen now.
>>
>>45244215
well that sucks, although I didn't pay for it so it is not that big of a deal. I was thinking troll bloods before, is there anything you would suggest for them?
>>
>>45244545

I would recommend picking one or two models you want to play with and then we can give you advice. as it is all we can do is tell you what not to buy.

if you want to use the woldwrath you totally can and only be a little worse off in most casual scenarios. my advice is pick a faction you like the look of and the fluff and go from there.

for instance if you choose trollbloods, look through the list of their casters and pick two you like (a good source for getting a very general feel for caster's playstyle is battlecollege. but don't take everything you read there to heart) and then figure out what you want to use with those casters.
>>
>>45244545
If you're looking to get into TB, I've got a a lot with some of the staples that I'm tryng to push.
>>
Who's the best caster if I want to take Bathroom?
>>
>>45249392
Honestly Mortenebrah, then again she does work with every jack. I could see potential of future of certain assassination runs being possible with counter charge setting up the turn after, but seems unlikely.
>>
Are any of the warcaster jobs in Kings, Nations, and Gods better than the warcaster in the main book? Also, what are some good secondary jobs to take with warcaster?
>>
>>45249568
>Are any of the warcaster jobs in Kings, Nations, and Gods better than the warcaster in the main book
They are more fluff-fitting for the nation they come from. They gain good spells and lose good spells equally. So no there is no "Best career variant". Build for concept in IKRPG, every PC is ridiculously strong anyways.
>>
>>45249692
>every PC is ridiculously strong anyways

The group I'm playing with almost got bodied by a gorax last campaign and only survived with a little bit of gm fiat. Hopefully another pc will help prevent that sort of thing.
>>
>>45249820
What are you all playing Intellectual archetype?
>>
>>45249820
IKRPG I treat as high-risk/high-reward. You will be great at what you build yourself to do, but so will your opponents. It does get better as you learn the mechanics, and even better again as you learn to work with your group as a team and play off one another for combos. You are still a good crit or two away from losing your head though, just like your foes.
>>
>>45249829
I have no idea what they were playing, but I'm thinking I'll try Khadoran warcaster+Menite Priest/some kind of sorcerer.
>>
>>45243887
Epic Morvhana actually likes it a decent amount to use as a transfer target and to use its animus to bost her sunder spirits.
>>
>>45250042
Thats like saying pSevvy, denny or vlad like thing.
Of course they do, its their job to turd polish
>>
Tell me why this list is shit:

Points: 50/50
High Exemplar Kreoss (*5pts)
* Devout (5pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
Captain Sam MacHorne & the Devil Dogs (Sam and 9 Grunts) (7pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Daughters of the Flame (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Holy Zealots (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Holy Zealot Monolith Bearer (2pts)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4pts)
Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & 2 Honor Guard (4pts)
Initiate Tristan Durant (3pts)
* Redeemer (6pts)
The Wrack (3 wracks) (1pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)
>>
>>45249851
Actually dying in IKRP is difficult/bad luck. You have a 1/8 chance of death/losing a limb. The other 14 possible results are mostly inconvenient "seek treatment soon" or "You got badass scars or have a valid reason to wear an eyepatch now".

So unless your party lacks anyone with the medicine skill death should be pretty rare. And if you don't have someone with medicine well... that's something to fix.
>>
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>Glacier Queen
>>
>>45250366
But does it have a Great Rack?
>>
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>>45250366
>>
>>45250088
He said hed like to use it so I was suggesting the most competitive thing to do with it.
>>
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>>45250366
>dare you enter my glacial realm?
>>
>>45250117
It looks fun, therefore will get curbstomped by any tournament list.

>I'd play it.
>>
>>45252485

fun lists can be competative

for instance

Pthags
bright blinger
carnivean
warspears+ua
warspears+ua
succubus
pot
feralgeist

I have so much fun playing this list
>>
>>45244355
Okay. I only had the Forces of Khador book to go by, which didn't have that version of his character. So is there painting guidelines for Llael? Was thinking about an improvised resistance group using winter guard models, and it sounds like every faction is in Western Llael anyway.
>>
>>45252562
You'll enjoy it when someone drops 8 splatter boars.
>>
>>45253014

haven't played against that list yet what are splatter boars stats again?
>>
Legion newbie here.
I was wondering, how effective can Raeks be for caster assassination with Absylonia2? Threatening 16'' with conferred rage, 18'' with a slipstream, 5' of which' being a leap, it's hard to hide from these things, but they lack some punch.
>>
>>45253073
More than their stats you have to worry about their thrown potion that can force you a treshold check. IF they hit your beast, mind you, which isn't a given even with gargantuans.
>>
>>45253248

they are a good headbutt delivery system for setting up the assassination. especially since they can give themselves parry and gain flight on feat turn
>>
>>45253259
what's the range on the potion?
>>
>>45253285
RNG 12, AoE 3

"Psychoactive Gas – This attack is a gas effect
and causes no damage. Models/units hit must pass a command check or flee. Enemy warbeasts hit must pass a THR check or frenzy."
>>
>>45253285
Ehh, sorry, I can't remember and the only source I have handy is BattleCollege, which says "good range"
>>
>>45253360
So that's one gargantuan that does nothing, every turn except turn1.
Nice to see that Minions are going to be top faction against Hordes.
Croak raiders AND splatter boars
>>
>>45253360

that's pretty good. The range is enough that I would have to run my warspears to engage or change my list to have a shepherd instead of a feralgeist. fortunately the closest minion player is hours away.

I'd probably drop something else into it desu but I haven't decided what to pair with this list
>>
>>45253397
>So that's one gargantuan that does nothing, every turn except turn1.

Unless it passes its threshold test.
>>
>>45253488
Or, you know, slaughter the fucking pigs. Sure it's pissy to not use fury because a piece of bacon could randomly make you frenzy.
>>
>>45253516

the blight bringer doesn't need to use fury most turns. the best target for the splatter boars is the carni.

spatter boars are what speed 4? so they need to start 16 away from the bb? guess what, if you're 16 away for the bb, you're closer to the warspears which are lobbing pow 15-19 spears at your pork flanks. how many pow 19's does it take to kill a light on average?
>>
>>45253600
That's a lot of kebab.
>>
>>45253623

pork kebabs yum

add some roasted garlic and and onion...
>>
>>45249392
Denny3 can pump his def up to rediculous levels
>>
>>45249392
(What is Bathroom?)
>>
>>45253397
My favorite is that I can take them in Cryx
>>
>>45253710
New character jack for Cryx, named Barathrum

>>45253741
Kit is too expensive for what it does in Cryx. It's pretty much too expensive in anything but Minions and maybe Skorne.
>>
>>45230180
pretty sure Savagery is friendly faction only, friendo.
>>
>>45253994
Part of my would wrarher pay 19pts for Rorch + 2 splatters over the 18 to get sprint
>>
Dead Thread
Dead Cryx
>>
Poor photo I know, but I finished my Extoller Soulward, /tg/!
>>
I have about $60 to spend right now and want to build up my Khador force. The only casters I'm missing are Zerk1, Starkhov, and Harkebich, but don't really want any those. Which of these would be the best?
>Ternion
>2nd Doomie +UA
>Ulhans
>Kayayzy Ass + UA
>Rifle Corp
>2nd Clam Jack Kit
>Koldun Lord
Only the Ulhans go past my budget but I would only buy those and not anything else.
>>
Points: 33/35
Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane (*5pts)
* Hammersmith (8pts)
* Squire (2pts)
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts)
* Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer (2pts)
* * Defender (9pts)
Captain Arlan Strangewayes (2pts)
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios (3pts)
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts)
Journeyman Warcaster (3pts)
Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator (1pts)

Looking for options for filling out this list. The options are as following:
Gun Mage Captain Adept
Taeryn
Trencher Chain Gun
Stormblade Captain
Stormsmiths x2
Lanyssa Ryssyl (for hammersmith shenanigans)

Changing the Hammersmith to an Old Rowdy and taking a Stormsmith. Really enjoy the double hammers though.

What does tg think? What 2 point option from cygnar don't people wanna see?
>>
>>45255431
2nd Doomies would allow you to play Butcher2s theme, one of the coolest themes, in my opinion.

Also, the Koldon Lords powerbooster is really nice, especially if you are running more than one jack.
>>
>>45255431
How do you not have Kayazy&UA yet? They're one of Khador's best units
>>
>>45256158
because I have DeathStar, Doomies, and 2 IFP (one BD). I have a big force and got the basic staples before getting anything else.
>>
>>45253623
>>45253642
>pork kebab

Americans, right?
>>
>>45256937
I thought Farrow were declared soulless by Menothians and thus halal.
>>
Any streams of the LVO going on?
>>
>>45257515
>Menites
>>
Holy shit the Krea's animus also gives enemies within 2" get -2def. God damn get in muh Morghoul list I want to be attacking with 10mat.
>>
>>45253698
I'd rather use any WJ rather than Bathroom.
The model looks fucking ass.
The rules are meh.
and the concept is totally stupid. Since when did Terminus crave/need/want a heavy WJ that burrows into the ground? Oh yeah cos that's his style? Oh wait, no it fucking isn't.
>>
>>45253516
>>45253488
>>45253600
MAXIMUM DAMAGE CONTROL
>>
>>45255431
Kayazi+ua
You can't go wrong with those little fuckers.
>>
>>45259202
You're a retard.
>>
>>45259174
I don't understand why they would make him Terminus's character jack and not give him an afinity.

They guy asked 'what casters can run Bathroom the best', so I suggested Denny3 because she does have *some* synergy with him. Its not an endorsement, though he would probably be better off without running it at all.
>>
>>45233175
>post a tried and true list
wow same old shit this is boring post something interesting
>post a new and original list
wow you fucking noob don't you know anything about the meta? get fuckin good
>>
>>45259791
The second is because people put zero thoughts and explain very little for their list
>>
Points: 50/50
Master Tormentor Morghoul (*7pts)
* Basilisk Krea (4pts)
* Cyclops Brute (5pts)
* Cyclops Raider (5pts)
* Aradus Sentinel (8pts)
* Titan Gladiator (8pts)
Cataphract Incindiarii (Leader and 5 Grunts) (9pts)
Nihilators (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 5 Grunts) (3pts)
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew (Leader and 1 Grunt) (1pts)
Agonizer (2pts)
Bloodrunner Master Tormentor (2pts)
Mortitheurge Willbreaker (2pts)

Here's what I want to do:
1) Vomit stupidly long range sentinel shots twice per turn
2) Be able to use Morghoul offensively through such nifty buffs as various animii and the bellows cloud bumping him all the way up to 19def
3) At some point throw the master tormentor with the gladiator who lands on her feet because of safeguard, whips around her to slay infantry, then runs away, hopefully through some frontline nihilators

Am I trying to be too cute? I'm sure the aradus sentinel dunking acid from the other side of the map twice a turn is pretty legit.
>>
>>45259791
As a newbie I have often posted my flawed and completely meta-blind lists and I have only received positive criticism, tips and encouragements. Maybe I've been lucky and have met only excellent /tg/ers, but your bitter reaction seems a little out of place to me.
>>
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>>45203071
So I think that mercenaries serving with the Protectorate should wear proper attires.

So I made Gorman di Pope.
>>
>>45262425
The tormentor is probably too cute. There's a good chance he just dies to the throw.
Morghoul and the beast handlers can give anyone a melee game, but your ranged game is weak to non-living. I'd try swapping the gladiator for a second sentinel, dropping the agonizer and tormenor, and going min beast handlers and inciniarii to add a second mortitheurge and a unit of slingers. Between four poison AOEs, four fire AOEs, and the slingers corroding and helping your cryx game, you destroy pretty much every light infantry model in the game.
>>
So, today was the day when the LGS had a Warmahordes going on. I tried a demo game and I was only one round from winning so I enjoyed it well enough but everything seems SO complicated. I have some of the (very) basics in my head but is there anywhere I can go to see smaller games played for newer players?
>>
>>45266236
Watch these.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxirCgRSzhA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En7dqerjSJM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0BP1J4mE-M
>>
>>45265005
I fucking love mercs converted to look in-faction. All hail Bomb-Pope!
>>
>>45266281
I mean, I've watched those. I've got a grasp on the rules but with so much going on and you having a time limit just seems like there's so much you need to do.
>>
>>45267346
There's only a time limit in tournament games. It's not a concern in casual play.

Faster play will come with practice. The best way to improve is just to play the game.
>>
>>45233175
My Asphyxious tinkering is basically done until the Sepulcher is released, where I may run something like this:

Lich Lord Asphyxious (*6pts)
* Deathripper (4pts)
* Sepulcher (18pts)
Bane Thralls (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Bile Thralls (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Mechanithralls (Leader and 5 Grunts) (3pts)
Mechanithralls (Leader and 5 Grunts) (3pts)
Necrosurgeon & 3 Stitch Thralls (2pts)
Necrosurgeon & 3 Stitch Thralls (2pts)
Satyxis Blood Witches (Leader and 5 Grunts) (4pts)
* Satyxis Blood Hag (2pts)
The Withershadow Combine (5pts)
Necrotech & 1 Scrap Thrall (1pts)
Saxon Orrik (2pts)

But I posted the other one because I wanted to hear what people thought about double knights since there aren't very many cryx players in my meta.
>>
>>45223257
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jTuKHKIT4w

>tfw 3 full units of battle mages and magisters opening up on feat turn

Also, which caster is most deserving of a new version and why is it pic related?
>>
>>45270366
>Also, which caster is most deserving of a new version
I think any new version of him will just be a disappointment.

His prime version is just so concise in theme and execution.
>>
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>>45270366
Anon, I think you've made a mistake. That's not a picture of Karchev.
>>
>>45270366
I'd like a Shae that does more than one thing well.
>>
>>45270366
>Which caster is most deserving of a new version?
I don't know about most deserving but that re-sculpt of Ashlynn should have been an epic. Would be too perfect to have eIrusk with his banner on one side and eAsh with hers on the opposite.

>>45270542
I don't foresee Karchev, Harbinger, or Terminus ever getting epics. They are pretty much static in theme. Darius is the exception for the large-base casters from Apotheosis only because we could see a version of him in normal warcaster armor someday.
>>
>>45270842
Epics don't need new weapons or loadouts. I mean, the Butcher has had three versions, each with the same loadout.

And even disregarding that it would be easy enough to just give Karchev an upgraded body. Hell, he probably needs one after all the shit he's been through.
>>
>>45271623
Epic Karchev is a fucking waste of a design space. The faction would be improved by making Karchev good rather than getting a different karchev.

Less the faction's strength lies on the caster, the better it is for the faction.
>>
>>45271623
>implying I said anything about their gear at all
I said static themes. They don't change as characters. Epic casters are thematic/storyline based.
>>
>>45270842
I just wish Terminus would get a resculpt. I love the art that he, denny2 and gaspy2 have from Apotheosis. The new denny2 sculpt, while being better, just doesnt capture "it"
>>
>>45272413
Agreed. Terminus model is a nightmare to assemble and really needs to be as cool on the table as he is in the artwork. With this recent rash of resculpts for Apotheosis models maybe we'll get one.
>>
>>45272341
Except that they've shown they won't change casters that much.

I mean, look at Zerkova. Everyone wanted her buffed, and they just released a new version of her instead.
>>
>>45272368
>Epic casters are thematic/storyline based.

And Karchev has been through a fuck ton in the storyline.
>>
>>45272578
>and they just released a new version of her instead.
>implying implications about the groilar
zerkova will be viable now
>>
>>45272593
>And Karchev has been through a fuck ton in the storyline.
And none of it has changed him as a person. He's still a cripple in a t in can who's a massive rage-magic fueled berzerker. Characters need to have growth to warrant epics. Karchev, Harbinger, & Terminus do not grow as "people".
>>
>>45272677
>Characters need to have growth to warrant epics

What was Zerkova's character growth? Or Kreoss'? Or Severius'? Or Doomshaper's?

And who's to say Karchev isn't changed? His time in Cryxian hands could have hardened him even futher. His already steely resolve may have been further strengthened. Hell, there was a whole thing in Reckoning right before he went nuclear in the Necrofactorium about him flashing back to the Dragon's Tongue and how he managed to control the power this time instead of letting it overtake him. So, yeah, plenty of possibility for character growth.
>>
>>45272617
How the fuck does the grolar make Zerkova1 viable? It's a nice Watcher target, but that doesn't solve her issues.
>>
>>45272856
>What was Zerkova's character growth?
Captured a god. Lost said god pretty quickly and learned that her hubris leads her to underestimate her foes. She got a promotion. Then got tasked by the Empress to root out nobles who are causing problems.

>Or Kreoss'?
He worked with non-believers for his 3rd epic. Holding out against the Cryx with Mercenaries and enemies of the Northern Crusade. This is something most Menite casters wouldn't really do unless they had no choice. Not only that but he actually learned to respect some of those enemies.

>Or Severius'?
He literally became the fucking Heirarch! He captured a city without any open battle. He was influential before but now he leads an entire faith. He has to grow to fill those shoes.

>Or Doomshaper's?
I don't know recent Trollkin story yet so I can't speak for Doomy.
>>
>>45273025
>Captured a god. Lost said god pretty quickly and learned that her hubris leads her to underestimate her foes. She got a promotion. Then got tasked by the Empress to root out nobles who are causing problems.
>He literally became the fucking Heirarch! He captured a city without any open battle. He was influential before but now he leads an entire faith

That's not character growth. Those are just things that happened. If you're counting that as character growth, how does Karchev being captured by Cryx, resisting torture and all sorts of Cryxian magic mindfuckery, and then fighting his way out hooked up to a kludged together jack and nuking half the base with sheer determination not qualify?
>>
>>45273025
So she got nothing done
Kreoss literally just got on a fucking horse

>>45272578
Zerkova got significantly changed. I don't even understand what you are on about. Caster change is also completely irrelevant to whether caster change or non-caster change is better for the faction.
>>
>>45273025
You do realize that most epics anymore have nothing to do with character growth, right?

Hell, Denny3 doesn't even feature in the fluff until the very last minute to fly off on her new dragon. She doesn't have any fucking reason to have a dragon, and there sure as shit wasn't any growth.

She only went epic because Haley went epic.
>>
>>45273180
Yea, Epic Zerkova did. The point was that they didn't do anything to buff pZerkova, which is what people were asking for, they just released a new version of her.

Which means they've pretty goddamn unlikely to do anything to buff Karchev, instead just releasing a new version of him.
>>
>>45273191
Most insulting epic change is Gaspy.

>Orchestrate a 4 way bloodbath to fuel soul cage of epic proportions to open a portal to the heavens. Use Jesus to do it, killed his boss before, and kicked his rival out for an extended time so his work could be done in piece.
>Goes to version 2.

>Turns his stick into a sword
>Goes to version 3.
>>
>>45273207
I'm not asking for statistical likelyhood. Pay attention to what's actually being said. I'm saying what's good or bad. Epic Karchev is bad for Khador.
>>
>>45273146
>That's not character growth
You clearly don't understand what that means. yes they are things that happened because events are what shape a characters growth. You'll note I actually directly pointed out HOW the character was forced to grow by some of those events.
>learned that her hubris leads her to underestimate her foes
>learned to respect some of those enemies.
>has to grow to fill those shoes.
Maybe stop cherry picking.

Now for Karchev:
>Captured by Cryx, resisting torture and all sorts of Cryxian magic mindfuckery
He was already tough. We knew that. Nothing new there.
>fighting his way out hooked up to a kludged together jack and nuking half the base with sheer determination.
Impressive it is but it's still nothing new for him. He has been living inside a jack for like a century.
.>he managed to control the power this time instead of letting it overtake him.
This is the most actual growth he's had. He learned some control over his rage-nuking. So if they follow this up with more plot that shows him changing then sure he could warrant an epic but I don't see it being enough.

>>45273191
More recent ones perhaps but the examples he asked about, especially Kreoss did have legitimate growth.
>>
>>45273294
Kreoss literally just got on a fucking horse. He grew 5 ft. that's it.
>>
>>45273294
>learned that her hubris leads her to underestimate her foes
When was that ever established?

>learned to respect some of those enemies.
Okay, so that's Kreoss3. What about Kreoss2?

>has to grow to fill those shoes.
And where was it established that he's undergone character growth for that? I mean, he was already a leader and accomplished demagogue as head of the scrutators.

>So if they follow this up with more plot that shows him changing then sure he could warrant an epic but I don't see it being enough.
You're full of shit. "Character growth" isn't a requirement for epics.
>>
>>45273306
He could have turned on those he defended with and taken that castle once the Cryx were beaten back. Instead he left. With respect for those who were his enemies before, and went home for the day. So no he didn't "literally" just get on a horse.
>>
>>45273369
You know Kreoss has been one of the most even of the Menites since the very first book, right?

He's always been about being the reasonable dude when dealing with non-Menites.
>>
>>45273369
Kreoss was always honorable should've-been-a-paladin-but-joined-the-exemplars-because-he-was-edgy-as-a-kid
>>
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>>45273366
You're a manchild.

You asked for example and you got the. You cherry picked and got called on it. So now you just try to backpedal and tell me growth doesn't matter after all of it.
>>
>>45273369
That's nothing new for Kreoss, though.

It's been part of his character since forever that he's fairly lenient and merciful as far as the Protectorate goes. Hell, there's even a section about that very aspect of his character in his Kreoss2 fluff entry.

>While he does his duty without hesitation, he is not above questioning the actions of the church. Kreoss is a courageous and fearsome warrior but does not possess the ruthlessness common to the Menite hierarchy. This may, in fact, be one of his greatest strengths, and it has already made him a hero to the common people of the Protectorate.
>>
>>45273404
Fuck off. You literally said it yourself here >>45273294 that recent epics haven't been linked to character growth.

Your'e full of shit.
>>
>>45273411
>Your'e full of shit.
You need a new line m80
>>
>>45273404
>You asked for example and you got the.

You never actually gave me examples of real character growth. You gave me examples of shit that happened to people, much as I gave you examples of shit that happened to Karchev.
>>
What's even funnier is that the fluff for Kreoss3 is that his promotion was entirely political, to give Kreoss the power to maintain the PoM when Sevvy dies.
>>
>>45273436
Better than Reznik's promotion.

>Hey Reznik, get on the chariot
>Won't this make me more vulnerable in melee, I mean I'm already medium based? I still have no defensive tech and i've basically lost all my witch hunting abilities. Are you sure-
>Are you questioning my focus 10?
>N-no....
>>
>>45273426
You need to call a septic tank maintenance service because this is you right now.
>>
>>45273462
Holy fuck, where is that picture from?
>>
>>45273461
Hey, there's been some talk of the new Colossal making R2 actually a lot better.
>>
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>>45273431
>>45273462
I've lost my point amidst all this nonsense. Just stop with your damage control and shit flinging.

Point is. Karchev, Terminus, & Harbinger are static characters. They don't really ever change. They'll likely be what they are until they "die". More than that the Apotheosis casters are supposed to be big iconic characters for their factions. Changing them goes against that purpose.
>>
Decided to quit 40k. Idk if I should pick Warmahordes or infinity. I like the models and the fluff as I like playing. I heard that even though warmachine had great rules, it is more a game with minis that a complete hobby. Is that true ?
>>
>>45273509
I'm not understanding your question. Pick what the local group is playing and try out couple of games.
>>
>>45273509
>Decided to quit 40k
First step to recovery.

I'm not sue what you mean about a 'complete hobby' but it is less conversion friendly than GW stuff.
>>
>>45273502
>Karchev, Terminus, & Harbinger are static characters. They don't really ever change.

No, they're not, and yes, they can. Just because you're too dense to realize that doesn't mean it's not true. And just because you're too dense to realize that character growth isn't a necessary requirement for going epic doesn't mean that's not true, either.

You're so full of shit that even the most invasive of enemas could never clean you out.
>>
>>45273509
I guess I don't know what you mean.

I will tell you that Warmahordes is a very rules driven game, which can often turn people off. It's explicitly rules as written, so stuff does exactly what it says it does. Takes a little bit to figure out the lingo, but yea.

>>45273531
They've gotten better with the conversion rules. The new ones are actually pretty lenient. 50% of any PP model base, and then just the weapon stuff.
>>
>>45273548
I saw the recent conversion rules change. That's a nice change of pace. I recently got a 2nd metal Mule that I'm debating converting into a Rover (since I don't have one yet).
>>
>>45273522
>>45273531
>>45273548
Sorry if I wasn't clear. My local group only used to play 40k, so I guess they will start the same game as me. I was wondering if Warmahordes was a very competition driven game with no immersive fluff or great modeling options.
>>
>>45250366
Why does she still have a frost beard?
>>
>>45273665
You get what you put into it. Both Infinity and WMH are competition driven games. Infinity is definitely stronger on the modeling front, but the fluff is pretty basic.
>>
>>45273665
The fluff for Warmahordes is great. It's probably my favorite part of the game honestly. I enjoy the game itself but with the competitive bullshit from 1 player in my local meta and the online community I'd likely have quit if not for the RPG and fluff.
>>
>>45273665
>I was wondering if Warmahordes was a very competition driven game with no immersive fluff or great modeling options.

There is a lot of emphasis on the competitive side of the game in some areas of the playerbase, but the game is really what you make of it.

There's plenty of stuff out there for people looking for more casual or fluff driven play. In fact, I'd say PP puts out more stuff for that side of the game than they do for the competitive side with the yearly leagues, the various fluff and hobby centric articles, etc.
>>
>>45273665
Community wise, it tends to be driven pretty competitively. Metas vary from place to place, but the bigger ones are usually focused on the competitive side of the game in one way or another. It's not the sole aspect of the game, of course, but often the most talked about one.

There's a shitload of fluff for Warmahordes. The base setting is in fact an old RPG setting, so if you go looking there's a shitload of interesting stuff to read about. Faction fluff isn't bad, and the books are story driven, with an ongoing story that moves forward from book to book. The actual book fluff tends to vary quite wildly in quality though, with a lot of it towards the lower end.

The one thing Warmahordes isn't is more of a "Your dudes" kind of game. Your army commanders are always established characters, and there are character models that are often unique and provide very important things to factions that nothing else does. You can refluff it of course(there's an old article from PP about doing this), but you're still working from a base template.

Modeling wise, it's gotten better, and they like to do contests, but there's a bit more restrictions than from 40k. Weapons, for example, need to be explictly modeled. Axes need to be axes, swords need to be swords, etc, etc. This is especially important when dealing with the warjacks, because often times several jacks are built on the exact same chassis, and only the weapons tell them apart, so having the right weapons is important.
>>
>>45273509
Modelling is harder than with GW stuff because you don't get huge infantry kits with tons of extra sprue or things meant to be interchangeable or reposeable; some kits come with options to assemble one model rather than another (some heavy beasts or jacks that share the same basic 'body' but have different arms and head, for example), but that's not the same thing. So, conversions and modifications take more effort. (*)

It is quite competitive, since every faction has many layers of synergies between its units and learning how to exploit them and how to use some rules makes a huge difference in how you play. On the bright side, unlike 40k, you have many ways to be competitive, instead of just one or two for each faction (and not really each faction). Here, you can pick any caster (and every faction has 13-17 of them!) and build a good list around it, and good lists aren't that strict.

* You'll likely find the same problem with Infinity I assume. They're all mono-pose kits with incredible detail, so modifying a piece wouldn't be easy at all. I can't speak about its gameplay since I don't really know much about it.
>>
>>45271623
>>45270842
Come to think of it...
Karchev just got saved from Cryx and needs a new Warjack body. And Terminus just got smashed by Stryker and is out of the fight for a while until he's rebuilt.

These seem like perfect times for the Apotheosis casters to go epic. I know PP have said they never will, but that was back in MK1. And Harbinger and Darius don't have any similar reasons yet.

Other than Reznik making an impression on her and we get a more vengeful Harbinger.
>>
>>45273461
I think Reznik had the chariot made on his own accord. The Harbinger just gave him a new title at the same time, she didn't give him it.
>>
>>45274294
They don't have to go epic at the same time. I'm still waiting for Feora3, Mortenebra2 or Coven2, Kraye2 and Sorscha3. Oh, and Ashlynn2 and Magnus3.
And Madrak3 and Barnabas2 and....

Not to mention epic Journeyman Warcasters / Lesser Warlocks.
>>
>>45274824
Lich Lord Mortenebra is mentioned in the quote at the top of Bloat Thrall Overseer Mobius page in the NQ. #dreamscometrue
>>
>>45275017
I know. Still, it might not be in the same book, just a tease for the future.
>>
Hello, a Legion noob is back. I still haven't had any occasion to test my beasts on the field and I'm still meddling with possible army lists (at 35 pts).

What I'm sure about for now is:
>Absylonia 2
>Scythean
>Scythean or Angelius (got both, got to try both, probably more sold on the Scythean)
>Seraph
>Raek
>2x Deathstalker
>Shredder

This leaves 4 points and the whole issue of fury management to take care of. I am a little torn, since:
>The Forsaken can leech at an amazing range AND use that fury to blow things up, but doesn't extend CTRL
>Shepherds extend CTRL wonderfully but have lackluster range for leeching, and the list is built to have the beasts go ridiculously fast.
>Two Sheperds and a Forsaken are horribly redundant.
>A Forsaken for leeching and a Shepherd for CTRL extension would be nice, but I haven't anything to fill the 1 point gap (spell martyrs don't look that interesting for Absy2).
>Absy would love another Shredder, I suppose.

You people have already helped me a lot in previous thread, and any more suggestions and/or critics will be very welcome.

(On a side note: I'm beginning to consider how to build a second list, for double-list tournaments and the like. I was thinking of Thagrosh1 for a list that can handle attrition, since armies that can take my alpha and still manage an attrition game seem to be the worst matchup for Absylonia's list...)
>>
>>45273665
Go for warmachine.
It has fluff, modelling, painting, the works.
Check any No quarter magazine.

However take anything you see in these threads with a large dose of salt because at least one anon here is a know it all cunt (I think it's someone from chain attack) and will shit on anything.

Warmachine is as competitive as you want it to be. It isn't a competitive game; it's a game that can be used for competition.

Not the same thing.
>>
Anybody have good matches lately?
>>
>>45273734
I would add that that isn't exactly true.
In all metas you will have competitive and not competitive players.
Competitive players don't have much to talk about, whilst the others have lots of fun
>>
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>>45223257
It just so happens my favorite warlock LITERALLY has a feat song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1cRGVaJF7Y

The guy even looks like Grim.
>>
>>45276359
Absy2 is awesome !
a forsaken is good, 2 forsaken is better.
>>
>>45276397
oh hell yes.
Testing the new SR2016 scenarios.
One player takes khador Vlad1 with assault kommandos, nyss and winterguard, drago and 1juggernaut.
Opponent has doomy3, mulg, rok, EBDT, axer, bouncer, full stone, janissa, whelps.

Khador can't even touch that list.
Trollbloods ignore the khador army and rush straight for vlad. they get him in the back corner of the board.
Vlad casts blood of kings, moves behind a wall.
Only EBDT can walk into range of Vlad. behind that wall with the wardog and BoK, vlad is Def22.
misses. Vlad is like "problem troll?"
Khador then wins the game because in the meantime, Nyss removed the trollblood objective and Eiryss2 has been sat capturing a flag for several turns.

So what looked like an obvious win for trolls turns into utter defeat because scenario.
>>
>>45276495
wut?
>>
Parcelforce hasn't arrived with my computer yet so I keep painting models out of boredom. Send help.
>>
>>45274294
Harbinger likes Vilmon.
harbinger and vilmon sitting in a tree k i s s i n g
Harbinger loses her divinity.
Vilmon is broken, but menoth grants him power for his unyielding faith.

New warcaster + attachement:
Vilmon the fallen paladin and ex-harbinger
>>
>>45276501
What about 1 forsaken and another Shredder? Two flying P+S 12, charge 13+Reach flesh missles with two all-boosted attacks each on feat turn seem rather appealing to me ...! But on the other hand, I don't know if I can handle all the fury with just one forsaken
>>
>>45276594
Did you listen to the song or watch the video?
Grim's mechanics and abilities were quite literally based off of this song.
His gun is named headhunter, the name of the song.
Lyrics Time
>One: you lock the target.
Lock the target was his signature spell for many years
>Two: you bait the line.
Bait the line is the special ability on his gun. I think it is still unique to him
>Three: you slowly spread the net
"Spread the Net" is the name of Grim's feat.
>4: you catch the man
In mkI he also had a spell called Man Trap.

The song is about a bounty hunter chasing his quarry. Grim is an infamous bounty hunter. The guy's in the video have shaved heads and big shiny goggles like Grim does. PP has a weird sense of humor. Or they used to. There are other things like this sprinkled throughout the game.
>>
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Used to be my favorite warlock.
>>
>>45276577
pretty sweet.
>>
>>45276577
Nice.

(What is EBDT?)
>>
>>45276409
Don't take our word for it though. Go to a local game store and see what the scene is like yourself.

Some of us will tell you that there is only comp, some of us say there are some casual players. The common thread is Comp players are a constant and can get pretty grating to play against depending on your propensity for frustration as this game can induce it in a myriad of ways.
>>
>>45277102
Earthborn Dire Troll
>>
>>45274294
>I know PP have said they never will

That's not what they said. They said they had no plans for them to go epic at the time.
>>
>>45273191
She had a weirdly intimate moment with gaspy, but that was it
>>
>>45273502
Witch Coven also came out in apotheosis and I wouldnt consider them big or iconic. They're just Terminus's Deneghra: full house edition.
>>
>>45278655
The entire book was oddly focused on romance.
sorscha and vlad meet again.
irusk smiles at karchev sempai.
Denny and gaspy stare at eachother bit too long.
Morty : industries industries industries Cyphon : preserve preserve preserve
Both: preserve industries? Preserve industries.
kreoss is obviously in love with Durst's justice.
>>
>>45279603
>irusk smiles at karchev sempai.
Not
>Strakhov desperately tries to get sempai to notice him
>>
>>45279603
Haven't read Reckoning yet but I liked Kara Sloan romance bits in Vengeance.
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