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Fantasy Craft
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Lets talk about one of the best systems out there!
>Whatcha playin?
>What'cher character?
>Whatcha killin?
>Whatcha building?
>>
>>45200320
I play a rip-and-tear, no-armor soldier/barbarian. Greatsword, tough hide, pretty sick. We're tooling around in an airship, in the midst of a dragon-powered chinese war trying to stop the war and getting really worried because it sounds like the gods themselves are getting involved in it. (And we're trying to stop it. And people don't usually win when arguing with gods.)

Very fun, very straightforward, very killy. Having to social shit as someone who would prefer to solve things with her sword is a lot of fun. Probably wouldn't have the patience for this, but family is involved and both of the gods involved in the conflict are fairly prominent in her life.
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>>45200320
>Oh, and here's the copypasta, OP. For real.

Fantasy Craft is a d20 P&P RPG using the OGL. It's geared towards cinematic play where every character can contribute, with solid mechanics designed to give groups lots of flexibility to tailor games to individual preferences. Rather than just a set of bolt-on additions to the OGL d20 system, Fantasy Craft tears it all down and rebuilds from the ground up, steering clear of the major pitfalls of other OGL games and aiming for a more cinematic, narrative-focused style.

Noteworthy points:
>Drastically reined-in magic system putting casters on equal footing with non-casters
>Classes and the game as a whole designed to ensure everyone can contribute in a wide range of circumstances, even outside their primary niche
>Separate cash and Reputation economies keep mundane gear relevant and magic items special
>Custom monster and NPC design is a breeze
>Optional Campaign Qualities tweak mechanics to suit your preferred style and tone


>If you have the money and want to support the game
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/63884/Fantasy-Craft-Second-Printing
>If you want to try before you buy
http://www.mediafire.com/download/rscnai437ptu23k/FantasyCraft.torrent
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/nzs6xsnzbid4t/Fantasy_Craft

Other useful links:
>Errata & accessories
http://www.crafty-games.com/node/851

>Web NPC builder
http://www.meadicus.plus.com/craftygames/npc-builder/NPCBuilder.html

>Custom PC Species creation guides
http://www.crafty-games.com/index.php?q=content/species-and-talent-creation
http://sletchweb.wikidot.com/fc-origin-creation

>Species feat creation guide & reference spreadsheet
http://www.crafty-games.com/content/blankbeards-unofficial-guide-creating-species-feats
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1016700/species%20feats.xls

>Class design guidelines
http://www.crafty-games.com/node/691
>>
>Whatcha playin?
Four magnificent characters.

>Human Fighter Burglar in a caveman game.
He's honestly the more levelheaded of the group but also the weirder one, mostly in the eye of the Martial Artist who thinks being noticed is the most important thing in the world. Also very snarky.

>Dwarven Musketeer Soldier in a colonial game.
He's the gundorf, you need something shot he's your vertically challenged humaniod. He's got enough gun to arm the party by himself and he's also the only not-asshole in the group.

>Human Fighter Runeknight in a Sigil game.
He's the man who can take the damage and deal some of it. Raised on a world where everyone were adept magician as a weak mundane he managed to raise some magical talent before he got flung into Sigil by a baby protection spell. He's also the interdimensional mailman of the group.

>Human Gladiator Soldier in a generic fantasy game.
Strong, talkative, and handsome. He's got what the ladies like, he thinks. Focused on taking hits and punishing misses with some Charge feats to be added to him as he levels.
>>
>>45200320
I'm currently running a game with my friends on IRC, they are members of a guild, doing jobs weekly while trying to improve their guild influence and standing, gain guild members, get rich, and get famous.

So far in 3 sessions they've captured a minor crime lord, captured a cockatrice, killed a rat in a basement, performed in a show/fought a bitter magician in a fancy lounge/restaurant, rescued a kidnapped professor before he was virgin sacrificed, and a few minor tasks.

Players: Edwin, Human Captain 6, focuses on a brace of pistols and battlefield control.

Ida, Oni (fire brave Ogre) Martial Artist (CON focus) 6, uses Dim Mak feats, unarmed with massive Athletics, building up an edge use build with Dim Mak and Force of Will. Usually is disguised as a human girl.

Sanan: Human (Saurian-blooded, Jungle Clutch) Burglar 4, Deadeye 2. Uses an Arbalest that we homebrew tweaked, as well as a bow. Focused on sniping and crit fishing a one shot kill.

Barnabus: Unborn (Clockwork) Keeper 6, craftsman robot. Not very combat ready, but very skilled, taking magic item feats.


Giovanni, Human Courtier 6, uses martial arts (CHA) and an item that gives them Divine unarmed damage, has extremely high appearance and uses fixation in combat to good use, as well as poisons. Tons of skills.

Pepper Miller, Human Personal Lieutenant of Edwin: Knife tree, ghost
tree, battle maid who uses sneak attack out the ass. Glass cannon.
>>
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So, as a long time fan of D&D, and a new fan of Shadow of the Demon Lord, what does Fantasy Craft bring that I don't already have? What do you love about it?
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>>45203693
Good question, though I have no idea what shadow of the demon lord is.

>It has an economy that isn't psychotic like D&D
You know how at 7th level, your average PC has enough wealth on their person in various magic items to buy a small town and every able-bodied individual in it? No more of that. Or less of that. No more +1 sword being 2x the cost of a warhorse, and a warhorse's price (or a night's stay at an inn) being completely irrelevant after 3rd level.

>Martials are good.
Pathfinder or D&D are balanced around full BAB progression. FC is balanced around 3/4ths. So the classes with full BAB are actually really, really good at what they do. They They also get a minimum of 4 skill points/level (and the skill list is much smaller, so that's pretty significant) which makes it easier for them to contribute outside of combat.

Further, there's a lot of different things you can do in combat; Sometimes I'm just "attack, attack" twice in one turn, but it's not like I don't have options. Tricks allow you to do funky things with your attacks. My soldier has the option to knock people back 5 ft per hit, and again, optionally take a step up after them to keep it going. That's not even a feat, that's just a trick you get with a proficiency. You can start with that at first level.

Oh, and weapon training. That's probably the thing that makes it the absolute hardest for me to go back to pathfinder/d&d.
Weapons are grouped in very broad categories. "Edged weapons". "Black powder weapons." "Blunt Weapons." "Ranged." etc. (That might be all.)
You get 2-6 proficiencies at 1st level, and then another one every level or three, depending on your class? You spend one proficiency to become trained in 75% of the weapons in X category.
You spend a second point to get trained in the rest ('exotic' ones, require special trianing, whatever) and get Weapon Focus (from D&D or Pathfinder) with all of them. If you don't feel like more proficiencies/fortes, get a trick.
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>>45203693
Nigga you can play a DRAGON!
>>
Rolled 2 (1d12)

>>45204760
>>
What does this game offer my group of old grognards who want to relive our 3.5 days but without having to use 3.5?
>>
>>45204963
Balance play. No dead levels. The power to be awesome from level 1.
>>
>>45204963
Solid rewards for single-classing paying off at level 14 instead of 20.
>>
>>45204963
Fun noncombat options, tool-box system for unique games, sexy sexy combat
>>
anyone gave the adventurer's companion pdf? link is broken.
>>
>>45204963
What I like best about it, in a nutshell, is that it scratches the same sort of detailed character-building itch that 3.5 does, without the need to agonize over optimization to get a nonstandard concept (or even some standard ones, for that matter, the way 3.5 is sometimes) to pull its weight. There's ample support to let you play a viable character no matter what weapon you want to use (well, except crossbows, they still suck unfortunately), what class you want to play (even noncombatant classes, of which there are several), what race you want to be (including all manner of exotic/monstrous races), etc. No hoops to jump through, no combing through lists of options to scrape together enough to make it work, just intuitively pick some stuff and there you go. You really have to TRY to make a character that can't pull his weight.

I also like how dynamic and engaging combat is. Even from level 1, everyone has a variety of options in how to deal with enemies. Not only are there more special combat actions than in 3.5, all you need to be good at them is just to put ranks in the skill it uses (they're all opposed skill checks) -- which you were probably going to do anyway. No more sinking half your feats just into being able to do one thing in combat that's not "hit something with your sword". And then there's the way feats are designed (not only meatier than 3.5 feats, but also more focused on neat tactical options rather than just stacking up incremental numeric boosts), and tricks adding various neat add-ons to your attacks. Plus the standard/special NPC differentiation letting you be the big damn hero who mows down hordes of cannon fodder on the way to the big, tough leader.
>>
>>45204094 said all that shit and all you had to say was >>45204760
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>>45206273
I can't play a dragon until 14th level tho.
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>>45206461
Drake is a race option, homie. Make that hotline bling.
>>
>>45206461
That's because you're playing a half-dragon that will one day be able to turn into a full dragon.

Which sadly is much weaker as a gamebreaker than it rightly should be. Shame, that.
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>>45204908
Why do I keep seeing stuff from Spellbound Preview but not Spellbound itself? Looks like the preview came out in 2011. Something happen?
>>
Rolled 36 (1d46)

>>45206519
It's on its way. It'll be here...soon.

Also so far we have a Dwarf
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>>45206519
Expect it around spring 2015
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>>45206484
Yah.
>>45206501
Yah.
It's okay, I absolutely murder in human form.

>tfw mother you've never known is not only alive, but disowned royalty
>tfw less than a hundred miles from her, but in the middle of a nigh-apocalyptic war and don't have time to go haring off to confront her
>tfw she might die before I ever get to see her
>tfw have to stop the war that I'd normally be eager to fight in for honor and glory, because it's being orchestrated by a true enemy to weaken two entities it fears
>tfw game is going too slowly and I've been sitting on the edge of my seat for the past month

work work work
>>
>>45206519
Spellbound was way, way too ambitious a project for Crafty to manage with their extremely limited manpower and resources. They've actually come right out and admitted that it never should've gotten greenlit, because it's just not something they can afford to focus on to the degree necessary to make sure it comes out right. It takes a lot of work to make sure such a big batch of content is properly balanced, and they can't really afford to make it the priority it needs to be to get done because Fantasy Craft is by no means their bread-and-butter line.

On the plus side, they're really demonstrating their dedication to making a balanced, quality game.

On the other hand, it means that it's moving along at a pace that snails would laugh at, since they can only work on it in fits and starts whenever all the other stuff they have to do to keep the company afloat lets up. My guess would be earliest that we might see it would probably be Christmas season this year, after the more pressing projects they have in the works get released.
>>
>>45204963
>3.5
>old grognards

Maybe in another 10 years, kids.
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>>45206670
As a veteran of 3.5 who's used to getting three to five books per month that weren't worth the paper they were printed on, I can definitely respect that. Don't get it done, get it done right.
>>
Spellbound is a joke and crafty is a joke with how they're handling it.

Literally said basically everything is done.
They could've beta-released it apparently at least a year ago and just had the community do their "editing."
And then they still intend to drip-feed the content.
>>
>>45206702
Dude, it over 15 years ago. It qualifies.
>>
>>45206745
The day Pathfinder is marketed as a retroclone is the day you kids can call yourselves "old grognards."
>>
Why haven't you sent in your dollar-a-year-man application to Crafty yet?
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>>45206702
Bitch please, 2nd ed players were calling themselves grognards in 2001. Sit down before you break a hip.
>>
What of the homebrew stuff would you recommend, /tg/?
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>>45207052
>tfw there is an amazing, complete, and balanced homebrew expansion out there full of base, expert, master classes, feats, tricks, paths, campaign qualities, and innovative new options
>tfw not allowed to show anyone

I'm god damed blessed I get to see it, it's fucking amazing.
>>
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>>45207052
I like some of the more sharply produced species some people have made.
>>
>>45207089
If you mean the "bag of holding" pdf, that's hardly balanced, and it's both been released on the forums and it's all stuff taken from the forums anyways.
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>>45207138
No, not that. The creators don't want it shared for personal reasons, but it's pretty amazing. Here's one of the class arts for it
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>>45207089
>guys there's a soooper seekrit book full of super awesome stuff that's super secret and only I got to see but I can't tell you anything about it because it's SUPER SECRET!
>really guys it's totally real!

Were you that kid who told everyone his dad worked at Nintendo?
>>
Question: I see that dragons, giants and ents are core classes for the game. Does this balance well when the rest of the party are playing humanoids of standard adventurer size? Is there any reasonable way for combat encounters to be written to account for the fact that your party consists of a human, a dwarf, an elf, and a fucking huge tree person?
>>
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>>45207353
It's real man. It's awesome.
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>>45207408
So you were that kid.
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>>45207408
Then share it you twat.
>>
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>>45207089
We all believe you and think you're cool.
>>
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>>45207438
Not trying to be cool, man. It's just really neat.
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>>45207404
no seriously I'm really curious about this. Let's say I have a party of three dwarves and then one of my players wants to play a literal giant or a fucking dragon, what do I do to built encounters at all
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>>45207593
Well if it is an issue for you, just don't allow those races. for me, I those races are part of the "old" world so they fit in most ruins and such, but have trouble in the cities and towns.
>>
>>45207593
the mechanical difference between them is fairly small.

a giant has more "wounds" (health points based on size and constitution) and is able to lift and carry things better, but as far as fighting goes he doesnt get +20 strength or whatever over a dwarf
>>
>>45207721
>but as far as fighting goes he doesnt get +20 strength or whatever over a dwarf
Which is kind of weird, but whatever.
>>
>>45207760
Also
>Want to make fighty drake
>can't afford armor of any kind at low levels
>no natural armor from being a fucking dragon
a-at least I get an extra 7 wounds, right guys?
>>
>>45201869
The first Mediafire link (the torrent) doesn't seem to work. No one's seeding, at least.

Before I get invested in looking into this game, does it still have the godforsaken Vancian magic system? I've been trying to pull my group away from D&D and into something that's actually fun, but they haven't bitten yet; Fantasy Craft seems to be the closest thing to D&D that isn't shit so far. But Vancian magic (or any of the other spell slot shit) is a dealbreaker.
>>
>>45207862
No, it uses spellpoints.
>>45207838
Take some classes/feats that allow for greater defense mod/other ways to avoid damage? Or just kill things with ranged breath weapon attacks from the air before they can even reach you.
>>
>>45207760
Giants can be massively tall and super skinny, senpai.
>>
>>45207862
Spell Points: An arcane caster invokes spells by spending
spell points, which he gains from a number of sources (primarily
class). He pays spell points equal to a spell’s level each time he
tries to cast it (and doesn’t regain them even if his Spellcasting
check fails). Spell points are fully recovered at the start of each
scene with one exception: if any of the caster’s spells with a
Duration other than Permanent are still in effect from a previous
scene, those spell points are not recovered, even if the spell’s
Duration ends during the current scene.
>>
>>45207890
Going with a lancer and hoping I'll someday be able to afford it.

Breath weapons seem really hard to optimize around. Maximum of 4d6AP 4 fire damage, doesn't count as any existant attack type so you can't even get a forte in it, and it's a full round attack. Drake dex is -2 too.
>>
>>45207898
>>45207890
That's... even better than I expected. Fantastic. I'll have to take a look at it after all, then.
>>
>>45207862
Spellpoints, homie. Think mana bar.
>>
>>45207937
You think thats cool? How about the faith based magic. Magic users that cast miracles don't use spellpoints or need to make spellcasting checks, but their spell choices are limited by their alignment. The GM gets to make the alignment, choose the paths the alignment has, opposing alignments, and avatar for the alignment. It's fucking amazing.
>>
>>45207838
There is a species feat that gives you DR and I think improves your breath attack.

Also, if you take Martial Arts, you can vastly improve your natural attacks (+2 damage, +1 critical threat range), while it also lets you use your choice of attribute for Defense and unarmed attack.
>>
>>45207932
Lancer isn't a great pick for a fighty drake, unless you convinced your GM to houserule the bonus Melee Combat feats to Basic or Unarmed. Given that you can't use melee weapons and all.

Breath weapon definitely isn't something you can really build around too much without homebrew (or ruling certain existing feats to allow it that might not immediately seem so intuitively; I'd definitely allow Charging Mastery to do strafing runs, and Blackened Sky for multiple uses in one turn -- maybe even allow Angry Hornet for it, given that a drake can't use any other ranged attacks). But it's not quite as bad as you seem to be making it out to be either. Even the baseline damage of 2d6+Con isn't bad at all by Fantasy Craft standards, given that it's an area attack with an exotic damage type (and fire is pretty scary stuff), and you can add 3 more dice with Mighty Breath and Dragon Lord. The Dex penalty drakes get isn't too big a deal if you're going a high-BAB class, because high-BAB classes hit so reliably that one or two points of attack bonus isn't going to be too big a deal. You can even afford to dump some Bullseye in for a bit of extra damage.
>>
>>45207932

Before you go knocking out, go check out what fire damage does, in Alternate Damage Types in the combat section. Damage in Fantasy craft isn't just color coded.
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>>45207484
Uh huh.
>>
>>45208146
Draconic Heritage doesn't improve breath attacks; it lets you ignore the need for a mage's pouch (so more for the mage types). The thick hide alone is well worth it for a fighty drake though, plus it's a prereq for Dragon Lord which is also great for a fighty drake in the higher levels.

And yeah, Martial Arts/Master's Art is a must have for a fighty drake. Key your unarmed attack and damage, Defense, and Initiative all to Con, and focus on bumping your Con up to boost your breath weapon damage and save DC. Fun stuff.
>>
>>45208216
Honestly, even Soldier isn't awful for a Drake. You get free DR and some cost reduction for armour, which is really useful of you're trying to armour a dragon, your feats can be Basic or Unarmed Combat so you're not getting locked out of useful stuff, and you can even get mostly useful options from Weapon Mastery. It isn't ideal like Martial Artist, but it's far from terrible.
>>
>>45208412
Soldier isn't just "not awful", it's really great for a drake combatant. I don't know that it's really any less ideal than Martial Artist; the Martial Artist is great too, but not all that markedly greater than the Soldier.

Martial Artist lets you focus Con more by ignoring the prereqs for Martial Arts, which helps your breath weapon, but on the other hand the Soldier can still take Martial Arts if he meets the 13 Str and 13 Dex, and can get Weapon Specialist benefits with his breath weapon. Martial Artist gets the always-wonderful Master's Touch, which is definitely nice for drakes due to expanding the range of tricks you can use, but it's not really as good for drakes as it is for non-drakes since the Melee Combat feats you'd need to get the really juicy tricks are mostly wasted on a drake. Likewise, Wuxia is mostly wasted on a drake since you can just fly.

On the other hand, the only thing the Soldier has that a drake can't make full use of is some of the Weapon Specialist options. But two of the best ones (Killer Instinct and Most Deadly) still work for you, Certainty isn't too exciting but it's still functional, and One Step Ahead is an option you can get some value out of as well (you can even sink proficiencies into weapons you can't use just to get the Defense & DR, if you really want). That puts you at level 18 before you're stuck with a Weapon Specialist slot you can't get any use out of, which many campaigns won't even reach. And for those that do, you can always do a little multiclassing after your gamebreaker if you really want to avoid that dead Weapon Specialist slot -- or perhaps convince your GM to consider Decisive Attack to be worded "Once per round, you may make a free attack with a weapon in which you're proficient against a standard character" rather than "Once per round, WHEN HOLDING a weapon in which you're proficient..." Since really that one only seems like a technicality of wording rather than intended not to work unarmed.
>>
>>45208863
Even with Decisive Attack disallowed, you can still get some mileage out of the discount on weapon costs if you buy for your friends.
>>
>>45208912
True. And that would go hand in hand with getting more value out of One Step Ahead.
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>>45208995
Really, they did a fantastic job with the classes. There isn't a single Base class in Core that would actually be unplayable for a Drake (though Keeper loses a lot of its usefulness without hands), and of the other Base Classes, I think only Crusader is a genuinely poor fit. The Expert Classes are more of a mixed bag, but even there there's a lot that Drake can look into. It's some really solid design.
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>>45207089
>>45207408
it's not THAT great, CJ. it's definitely not balanced all that well, either... Also,
>Complete
ONLY IF YOU FINISH THE FUCKING ART, YOU MANLET
>>
>>45208863
That's actually pretty impressive, though saccing DEX and STR to pump CON as high as I can sounds kinda.... gamey.
Eh.

Also, if I'm going to be a martial artist, it'd seem like being able to properly grapple would be nice- but that's based off of athletics, and that's off of Strength, right? Any way to shift its basis like with Martial Arts?
>>
We're about to start a fantasy craft game with a focus on reliability and long term gaming. I'm the DM and looking forward to it.

Any pitfalls or concerns from fellow fantasy craft DMs?
>>
>>45209351
There's the Determined Grab trick in the Adventure Companion that let's you substitute your CON for your STR modifier, but you'd need at least 13 STR to get it.
>>
>>45209393
Crud. Thanks.
>>
>>45209351
Eh, Martial Arts is pretty much obligatory for any unarmed combatant anyway, and the particulars of how the attribute substitution work are pretty abstract. And you wouldn't be dumping Str and Dex down to nothing, just keeping them a bit on the lower end than you otherwise might for a combatant. Fantasy Craft doesn't push nearly so specialized attribute spreads as 3.PF, so even a fairly single-attribute-focused build is still going to be decently well-rounded. You *could* manage a starting Con of 18 if you dumped Str down to 10 and Dex down to 8, but as really Con-focused point-buys for a drake go you'd be a lot better off going Str 12/Dex 10/Con 17/Int 14/Wis 12/Cha 10 or something like that.

As for grappling, there's a Determined Grab trick that lets you use Con for Grapple, though it does require Str 13+. But, like I said, it's not like you'd really want to dump Str and Dex by too huge a margin for such a build anyway and the way NPC skills are handled you're still going to be plenty competent at grappling and other such combat maneuvers just by maxing out the relevant skills. Having a higher associated attribute certainly helps, of course, but it's not like in 3.PF where you need to really try to eke out every last point of bonus you can just to have a prayer of pulling off the check more than once in a blue moon.
>>
>>45209505
also, adding on to this guy --
being a Drake makes you a large character, which means you get a +2 bonus to grappling medium characters, +4 against small, and so on. If your strength is only 14, that's still as effective as a medium character with a strength of 18!
That bonus only applies, however, to *maintaining* a grapple, and is actually inverted when initiating a grapple. It's harder for the bigger character to take hold, but easier for them to keep the grip if they catch it. If you take the Mix-Up: Grapple trick, however, your first grapple can get a +3 bonus, which will help compensate when you initiate a grapple.
>>
>>45207256
And you REALLY DO have a Canadian girlfriend right?
>>
I apologize for nothing.


>Loli (Human Talent)
You are an adorable little girl.
>Size: Small
>Attributes: +2 Dex or Cha, -2 Con
>Base Speed: 30 ft.
>Charming: Once per session, you may improve the Disposition of any 1 non-adversary NPC by 5.
>Cute N' Cuddly: You gain the Cute N' Cuddly feat.
>Sharp Mind: You gain 1 additional skill point per level.
>>
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5dkzgw3cn842eyw/AACivEvWTEODXQgsjBPsHv8wa?dl=0

Dropbox, as a gift to you for talking about my favorite system.

Everything's here!
>>
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>>45206670
Yeah, I don't think they realized what they were promising when they first released their plans.

Pat and Alex are great guys but they are maaaybe not the best planners.
>>
>>45207760
Strength score is relative to size, since everything else size would affect is covered... by size. A giant doesn't need to be +2 Str or whatever, because for the stuff that cares about size he's effectively bigger than Large. A Giant's carrying capacity is like +10 over his normal Strength. Not to mention they can literally Trample tinier things underfoot, giving them an attack option that's almost wholly unique.

Also, free proficiency in Hurled means you can build a giant whose specialty is ROCK
>>
>>45207256
>>45207408
>>45207089
well if that's true you should tell the creators that they are a bunch of assholes for not sharing it, seriously it's just homebrew, they have no legitimate reason not to share it
>>
>>45209550
Fun fact - through abusing the Explorer's Flawless Athletics, I built an Ogre Explorer who could reliably win a wrestling match with the Tarrasque. The only tricky part would be actually starting it. But if the Tarrasque grappled him, this Fire Brave could, barring an Error, kill the Tarrasque entirely by putting him in an unescapable Pin and Coup De Gracing him to death with his horn, butt-ass naked.
>>
>>45204963
For the DM?

Never having to worry about picking out a monster that accidentally slaughtered the entire party because the Monster Manual folks couldn't do math

Thanks, sliding Threat Level scale!
>>
>>45206670
Honestly, I wish they would kickstarter it or something.

I want to give them my money, but I don't care about any of their stuff other than Fantasy Craft.
>>
>>45211115
Why don't you ask him yourself?
One of them is right here, >>45209260
>>
Did Fantasy Craft ever come out in dead tree format? Or is it solely a pdf that I'm gonna have to print myself?
>>
>>45212720
I'm in the same boat. People keep recommending I read the Mistborn series, and I actively resist because I resent the time the system takes away from FC. Hopefully the new Spy Craft will appeal to me, because Crafty deserve my dosh.
>>
>>45212985
I have all the books as physical copies.

They are not even that hard to find, man. Learn to google.
>>
>>45212985
They do everything as dead tree + pdf

Although I think Spellbound is going to be PDF only for the foreseeable future... whenever it finally comes out. I could be wrong, but I think they've said they're going to wait to release Spellbound in print until they can print it as one big tome.
>>
>>45211846
By RAW, you can't grapple things more than one size category larger than you.

Plus, I sort of doubt the tarrasque can't get higher than 40 on its Athletics. You know Flawless Athletics doesn't also add your Athletics mod, right?
>>
>>45213245
You can't initiate a grapple with something more than one size category larger than you, but there's nothing to say it can't grapple you and you can't then respond.

There were other factors involved, including Enlightened Athletics, that helped guarantee the Ogre's victory in the grapple (or at least, put him high enough that he'd win the vast majority of the time)

I'd have to re-build the character, but I ran the math and the character consistently won. The Flawless Athletics was just a safety net (since the Tarrasque's average result actually is below 40)
>>
Honestly I think the best part of fantasy craft is the DM side of things. It's just nice to have sliding scale enemies, and the campaign tags are awesome.
>>
>>45213300
Yeah, it's nice to have baked-in houserules with listed names so you can just be like

'Here's how shit works, now you know what the game's gonna play like, let's fucking rock'

The GM section in general is great and gives a good beginner's guide to game prep and worldbuilding which is super useful.
>>
>>45211000
I think they're better now, but back when FC first came out?

Yeah, they still had a lot to learn.
>>
>>45212720
Kickstarter wouldn't really help. What they have is an issue of manpower, and high-level trusted manpower at that. They don't want to pawn this off on some greenhorn freelancer hired with KS money, they want one of their experienced team members to be scrutinizing it to make sure it all meshes with their established standards for the system. It's a job that requires a lot of familiarity with Crafty practices and design philosophy, and the folks they have who could do that already have full plates with projects that are much more important to the continued survival of the company. And there's no way a Spellbound Kickstarter would be wildly successful enough in the long term to supplant the need for maintaining those other lines.
>>
>>45213241
The current release plan for Spellbound is to wait until they have it all completed to where they could release it in one big tome, but instead they're going to release it one chunk at a time, putting out an installment for each school of magic every week, and then one for general magic-related content like campaign qualities and the like. Which is pretty dumb, since you'd figure the point of the gradual release plan would be to buy them time to polish off the later-released one so they don't need to wait until the whole kit & kaboodle is finished to start releasing, but whatever.

They won't be doing a conventional print run of hardcopy versions of it, but they will be using DriveThruRPG's print-on-demand so you can still get a hardcopy.
>>
>>45214255
Is the print on demand nice and hard-covered like the core book?
>>
>>45214351
I imagine there probably will be a hardcover option for the big Omnibus version, likely not for the individual releases though. I've never bought anything print-on-demand from DTRPG, but from what I hear the binding quality is decent, but not fantastic. Probably won't be quite as nice as the core book, but hardcover will likely be a possibility.
>>
>>45214117
Yes, and there is also the issue that Kickstarters cost time and money in-and-of themselves.

I just want to give them money for things I will actually use.
>>
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>Whatcha playin?
Never ever, the only people I know who have any interest in the game are busy with PTU.
>What'cher character?
I made like 6, not that I'll ever get to use them
>Whatcha killin?
>Whatcha building?
Kill me, build a nice gravestone that says "Anon: Scarcely got to play FC"
>>
>>45200320
I've never gotten a chance to play, but I've GM'd several one-shots for various groups using pre-made characters over the past several months. One group, a bunch of non-gamer friends I ran The Cleansing of Black Spur for a couple months ago, liked it enough that we're going to be playing again this weekend. And hopefully a few more times in coming months afterward.

Feels good, man.
>>
>>45209260
Hey, show us your shit or fuck off about it.
>>
So if you get a Personal Lieutenant, do you have to equip them out of your own pocket?
Or are you allowed to (hopefully within reason) equip them like the GM would an NPC, aka without having to pay for equipment?
>>
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>>45209260
ITS PRETTY FUCKING GREAT, OK.
LET ME FANBOY.
>>
>>45216522
You can pay with exp.
>>
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>>45216522
Page 239
>>
>>45216733
It's not anything because it's not real.
>>
>>45216733
If you do not show something to the world, can you really claim it's anything?
>>
>>45209260
Man, half of those classes are just from LtI anyway. Bet you the same goes for the Specialties and feats too.

Why all the secrecy?
>>
>>45217290
It's just not my decision on whether it gets shared or not.
>>
>>45217395
I had that PDF, but trashed it because it was really not very good. Some of the classes from LtI are all screwed up, too. The Scoundrel is an unbalanced joke compared to the LtI original. The Feral Heart is the same, I think... but the Broker is messed up some. Almost as bad as the Scoundrel is the Tactician. It's based on the sad class idea that LtI turned into the Opportunist - which is tons better.
>>
>>45213042
>People keep recommending I read the Mistborn series, and I actively resist because I resent the time the system takes away from FC
same here
>>
>>45217416
So you were that one kid in school who brought up how his dad worked at Nintendo and you could play all the coolest new games, and when others wanted to play as well, you said "Nuh uh, you can't. I can."

I always wondered, what drives this kind of behavior? Why bring up something just to gloat it over our heads?
>>
>>45218720
The realization that they are basically without value and don't deserve the attention they want.
>>
>>45218720
Nintendo Scion

Your Dad totally work at Nintendo, guys, and he lets you playtest the games, and you're, like, really good at it, your reflexes are the best. Like, you beat Battletoads too fast, so they had to make it harder, seriously. No, other people can't play the old version, which you totally still have, for real.

>Size: Small
>Attributes: +2 Dex or Int, -2 Cha
>Base Speed: 30 ft.
>Split Decision: As a full action, you may simultaneously take 2 Ready actions, each with separate triggers and reactions. After the first trigger occurs, the other Ready action is lost.
>Enlightened Bluff: Your maximum Bluff rank increases to your Career Level + 5. Only the highest bonus from any single enlightened ability may apply to each skill.
>Celebrated: Your Legend increases by 2.
>Double Boost (Dex): You may spend and roll 2 action dice to boost Dex-based skill checks.
>Aloof: Your error range increases by 2 when making Impress and Sense Motive checks targeting characters of other species
>Reviled: The Dispositions of non-Nintendo Scions decrease by 10.
>>
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>>45219359
>>
>>45218720
You're right, I've been lying. Sorry.
>>
So enough circle jerk over Nintendo Chan. What are some situations that suck in most d20 systems that are fun in fantasy craft?
>>
>>45224422
Grappling.
>>
>>45224422
Being a Fighter

Soldiers rule the school.
>>
>>45224560
Soldier is an absolute blast.
Also: playing a muhfuggin dragon.
Subdual damage is slightly less crazy from how I recall it being in 3.x, but I might be wrong.

Picking a single class and sticking with it.
Freeform magic on the DM's part.
>>
>>45224697
Oh, and I forgot- downtime, multiple conflicts in a single day, and the economy. I got really frustrated in D&D/Pathfinder, because at 7th or 8th level, every random encounter had to have a few thousand gold on them if I was intending to keep the party at expected-wealth-by-level.
>>
>>45224697
Subdual damage looks less crazy until you play club-and-shield Orc Gladiator Soldier and proceed to do infinity subdual damage.
>>
>>45224783
I said slightly.
>>
Does anyone want another player for an online game?
I'm lonely.
>>
>>45225219
>Asking someone to GM FantasyCraft for you

Man good luck it's like you haven't heard of THE CURSE

My last GM got hit by a car
>>
>>45225277
I was DMing for a year and a half, but my players wanna play other games.
I need a decade long break from DMing.
>>
>>45225277
I'll bite. What's THE CURSE?
>>
>>45225371
FantasyCraft GMs seem to be plagued by the most awful circumstances.

I know the last time a rash of games started up, one guy got hit by a car, another guy had his laptop hard drive melt, I think another guy had to stop running a game when his chronic illness suddenly worsened...
>>
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>>45225405
Nothing bad has happened to me yet, how long do I have?
>>
>>45225405
Interesting. Is this a widely known phenomenon or /tg/ centric?
>>
>>45225449
Invisible hands are turning ethereal gears. It has already begun.
>>
>>45225491
Then, anonymous was hit by an anvil.
>>
>>45225525
>>45225491
Nah I'll be fine I'm in Total De
>>
>>45225548
BUT WHO WAS POST?!
>>
>>45225466
Entirely a /tg/ thing. It came about during the time when we were having pretty much continuously ongoing FC generals.
>>
>>45218720
You have to wonder what it was like for the children of actual Nintendo employees. Half the time their parent would be, like, an accountant or someone from marketing, or some other non-cool job, and the few kids whose parents actually designed video games still wouldn't get to see them bring any home because stuff under development is, of course, trade secrets and confidential. And then they run into jackasses who pretend to have the insider scoop on games and get everyone pissed of at people whose "dad works at Nintendo".

It must have been rough.
>>
>Crafty site is kill
RIP Spellbound
>>
>>45207898
Does this mean you can cast 0 level spells at no cost?
>>
>>45228210
How can there be a level zero? Are they like basement spells or something?
>>
>>45228210
Yes, level 0 spells are free to cast.
>>
>>45227624
Man, and they just got over a big attack just a few months ago.

Somebody must really have it in for the poor guys.
>>
>>45200320
I'm incredibly interested in this system but the torrent linked isn't being seeded, does anyone else have another link?
>>
>>45228937

>>45210983
Dropbox 'ere.
>>
>>45228987
Holy shit I missed that, thank you comrade.
>>
>>45228330
Yeah, it's really sucked. Knocked a lot of useful FantasyCraft stuff offline while they rebuilt the site.

The hell is the point of taking out a tiny games publisher like Craft?
>>
Barmp
>>
>>45231221
We just don't have the momentum we used to. It's a shame.

I'm working on a campaign setting right now that is, I won't deny it, pretty fuckin' weeb. Should be fun though. Drawing from stuff like MML, the Grandia games, and Soul Nomad for a game that really focuses on exploration and mystery and bitchin' airships
>>
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>>45225405

I... uh... I was deployed to eastern europe three months after I started up a game of fantasy craft with my friends in camp lejeune.

I've been thinking of running another game. Should I be worried?
>>
>>45231885
I say go for it. The curse can't get us all. Plus, deployment is boring as shit from what I gathered, and better you play a good game than more Pathfinder.
>>
>>45225405
Started up a game with some fa/tg/uys last week, I'm counting down the days till the curse specter shows his hand.

Game is set in muh original setting of high-magical faux India with psychic bugs and dream-dimensions. Currently the party is helping play a harmless prank on a mad scientist
>>
>>45232633
>Currently the party is helping play a harmless prank on a mad scientist
Well, THERE'S something that's never ended poorly....
>>
>>45232703
Where would adventurers be if they played it safe?

Having a lot of fun putting together an India-inspired homeland for my Ogres. Because an ogre with an appropriately sized shamshir is a terrifying thing to have to deal with.
>>
>>45234604
Mother of god. I use a normal sized shamshir and I'm scary enough.
>>
Post your characters
Pic related. PROGRESS!
>>
>>45235863
He's almost looking sort of tolerable now. True progress!
>>
>>45235863
Oh hey, one of the guys in QQ Anon's group. That you Shmeeb?
>>
>>45235886
You mean Quest Quest?
>>
>>45235975
That's the one. Quest Quest guy is also in a FantasyCraft game. He's got a fairly distinctive artstyle.
>>
>>45236008
Yep, thats me!
>>
>>45235676
Ogres have basically become enormous lion-men. Picture a nine foot tall, impossibly buff bronze-skinned dude with a mane and devil horns, decked in robes that they usually leave open at the chest and accessorized with assorted jewelry and rare stones. Some of them are single-horned oni as well, and those guys can shapeshift.

Meanwhile, their ladies basically look like this, but with bronze-to-red skin.

They all live under a volcano and they use ancient technology to draw magic from it as part of their religion.
>>
>>45225219
Hey, you're not alone. I also would love to play, but you know how it goes. Either you man up and start to GM yourself or live forever without a game.
>>
>>45236721
Sounds rad as hell. Volcano people are always cool in my books.
>>
>>45237268
Thankfully through perseverance (and a small amount of nagging) I've managed to net myself four games, still itchin' for a fifth though.
>>
>>45237366
G-give me one
>>
>>45237412
I really wish I could, but it's only one that realisticly have space, and the busta in charge doesn't seem to be looking. That and GMT is a rare timezone for gaems.
>>
>>45237454
I'll just make a new game, where I'm the DM AND the players!
>>
>>45237529
That's dedication, I wish you the best of luck.
>>
>>45237529
That's called writing a story.
>>
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>>45212720
>>45214117
>>RE: Spellbound Kickstarter

They sort-of did have a Kickstarter for it, before Kickstarter was a thing. They took preorders back in August of 2011. I think it was originally supposed to come out at GenCon that year.

If you see Alex Flagg, tell that nigga he owe me thirty dollars.
>>
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>>45236721
Neat. I always thought a fantastical India aesthetic would be really cool to use.

>>45235863
contribootan
>tfw drawfriend misspells your name
>>
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Bump I suppose.
>>
>>45237765

If you preordered it, you have access to the giant spell preview. Post that thing!
>>
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>>45240474
>>If you preordered it, you have access to the giant spell preview. Post that thing!

I am a river to my people:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7JqPtKRnUBYTkF0YlYxNllQN0hXY0V2c01xa1QzWGd6OF9J/view?usp=sharing

Goddamn, that's a lot of spells, though.

So who is going to make an excel sheet of every FC spell so I can view them sorted by level and school? I'm calling "not it" on that one.
>>
>>45241518
You a busta. Thanks!
>>
>>45241518
This made my day. I thought we'd never get to lay eyes on this relic
>>
>>45241518

I'm totally Stunned for 1d6 rounds.

Wow. I mean... wow. I never thought this would get leaked.

Thanks. Really. Thanks.
>>
>>45241518
>>45241751
>>45242337
>>45242487


Truly we are blessed this day.
>>
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>>45241518
>>
>Map of Juu'gley
This marvelous map shifts its display, allowing users to focus in on an area for more detail, and when asked can inform the user of the ideal route to reach a desired destination.

>Base item: Detailed map (durable & masterwork upgrades)
>Greater Essence: Feat (Depth of Study - 5 Studies on geographical regions)
>Greater Charm: Spell Effect (Find the Path)
>>
>>45203693
It's like the Pathfinder of Pathfinder.
>>
>>45247644
It's not really like Pathfinder at all. Pathfinder is as derivative as it can safely be, designed to be a safe experience for 3.5 fans. Fantasy craft doesn't want to be a 3.anything - it's 'what can we do within the OGL that actually works' and the end result is verrry different from 3.X as a whole when you look at actual design philosophy.
>>
How does FantasyCraft compare to True20?
>>
>>45248779
From what little I've just read of True20 FC is a lot more rules-heavy and 'simulationist' (for lack of a better word), whereas T20 seems to be more streamlined in a manner FATE and Mini-Six combined.
>>
How much would you cost an ability for a GM to grant a special NPC 1-5 temporary steps on a Path, expiring at the end of the scene?
>>
Ok, here's to hoping the curse doesn't come down on me. I'm starting up a Fantasy Craft game with 3 of my close friends. The idea is to make this game extremely stable and durable, lasting for years. Characters will live, fight, and die, changing the story and world.

I've got a Rootwalker Sage who's a master artisan...who works with wood. He takes the corpses of his fallen brothers and turns them into beautiful works of art as a form of honoring them.

He's accompanied by Orc Druid Soldier who believes that all weapons possess souls. He met his soulmate, which was a greatsword, and his tribe warlord took it from him. He left the tribe, met this weird tree who shares his belief ( he thinks, he doesn't talk much), and they've been travelling in search of a great weapon.

Along the they way they are going to meet a young, neurotic gnome from a quaint and quiet village. A evil wizard moved in one day, built a tower, and made a simple demand for apprentices. sure, the apprentices usually never come back, but it was a minor request all things considered. This particular gnome did come back...with the wizard's magic tomes and a dead wizard. Even the mighty can fall prey to a wet floor and a hard counter.

So...how screwed am I, /tg/?
>>
>>45251034
That gnome's backstory made me laugh like an idiot. That player's a keeper for sure.
>>
>>45252103
Yeah he's a keeper!
>>
>>45241518
How is this the first time I'm seeing this?
I have the class preview for Spellbound, but never seen a huge list of spells.
Well, thanks kind Anon!
>>
>>45241518
Bless you anon

These Lichdom rules are entirely legit.
>>
>>45252595
Willing to spread the love with the classes like the others?
>>
>>45231885
>WW3 caused by anon starting up a game of FC.
Do it.
>>
>>45250989
I'd say at least 3 action die.
>>
>>45250989
Like, floating Path Steps akin to the floating feats several classes get?

Given that the floating feat class abilities aren't listed as an option for NPCs, my guess would be that if a GM wants to do such a thing, he should just swap out the relevant entries in the statblock between appearances of the NPC. Most NPCs aren't meant to show up more than once anyway, and even those that are recurring characters aren't present continuously, but rather cross the players' path only from time to time. This more limited role of NPCs means they aren't rated so much on versatility as the players are, so the ability to swap out details of the statblock between appearances isn't really factored as a relevant piece of the XP value.

Or if you don't feel comfortable doing that, give it Shapeshifter II and only have it take "other" forms that are identical to it's "normal" form but for the specific Path Steps it has.
>>
>>45252103
>>45252185
No, I think he's a Mage.
>>
>>45253485
It's in the MF folder here >>45201869.
>>
For setting objects on fire, should that be based on the object failing a damage save against the fire damage (like how characters make a Reflex save, but using the damage save since objects don't have other save bonuses), or is it more of a GM discretion thing?
>>
>>45257263
Fantasy Craft is a toolbox. The object damage saves are there if the GM feels they need it, but ultimately it's up to the GM what happens. If it makes the game more interesting, catch shit on fire. If it's a player trying to set something on fire, and you would prefer to make it a challenge, use the damage saves. I'd keep in mind how flammable the object it for any bonuses/penalties to the damage save.
>>
So when you grapple someone, can you do anything on the first round of grapple? Do you get a benefit (pin, disarm, re-position, deal damage) the first grapple check? or do you have to pin them first, then move on to the other things?
>>
>>45257693
The way the book words it implies you can preform a Grapple Benefit or Pin immediately after a successful grapple check.
>>
>>45257893
Nah, that's from a grapple check in an already-ongoing grapple -- regardless of whether you or the victim initiated the check.

There are three key points in the rules that define what happens in a grapple:

The first paragraph of the Grapple action description on page 219 describes initiating the grapple. Here, it simply says that if you win the check, you initiate the grapple and the opponent is held.

The second paragraph then explains what happens *once a grapple is already in progress*. It is here that you see how you can gain a Grapple benefit:
>the only non-free action any grapple participant may take is an opposed full-action Athletics check, with the bigger character gaining a +2 bonus per Size category of difference. The winner of this check may pin the opponent or choose 1 Grapple benefit.

This is referring only to grapple checks made *after you're already in the grapple*. It is entirely distinct from the initial check to begin the grapple. Thus, you do NOT gain a pin or grapple benefit on the initiation of the grapple. (However, you CAN gain such a benefit when you beat an opponent's attempt to escape on his turn.)

Notice I say "the opponent's attempt to ESCAPE". Don't the grapple rules allow them to just fight back and gain a grapple benefit against the one who initiated the grapple, rather than just trying to escape? Well, the main Grapple rules on p. 219 do seem to imply that, yes, but look at the held condition on p. 213:
>The character is flat-footed and may take no non-free actions except an opposed Athletics check TO ESCAPE THE HOLD.
A held character's options are more limited than those of a character who is involved in the grapple but not held. The only benefit they're allowed to shoot for on their turn is escaping.

HOWEVER, a held character CAN gain a Grapple benefit against their attacker if the attacker fails his check on his turn, because the held condition only restricts what they can gain by their own actions on their turn.
>>
>>45257693
I believe when you initiate a grapple check, you're doing a full round check to make the opponent "held." After that, if you're still holding the opponent on your next round, you can do another full round athletics check to either gain a grapple benefit or pin the opponent. It is only on the third round that you can do benefits that require the opponent to be pinned.

Grappling can be pretty slow. Effective, but slow.
>>
There are only two things i dislike about FC.

1) sliding scaling. I'm sorry but it makes all the big threats seem pathetic when they adjust to your level and can kill them at level one.

2) the lack of magic and spellbound taking forever as one writer died and the company has an attention span of squirrels. I'm not asking for wizard broken spells, but more would be nice.
>>
>>45206519

The head writer died.
>>
>>45258411
>when they adjust to your level and you can kill them at level 1

I'd be real fucking impressed with a level 1 party managing to kill a TL1 Brain Fiend or Red Dragon. The numbers might adjust, but higher-XP enemies more than make up for it with their special abilities and access to some really nasty qualities.

In general, I find scaling tends to make lower-level threats stay relevant more often than it makes higher-level threats less deadly.

>lack of spells
Fair, although that guy just posted a preview of Spellbound with 168 pages of spells, which is a pretty big step up.
>>
>>45258411
If you want the big threats to be big threats, just adjust their threat level accordingly. The Menace system takes care of that.
>>
>>45258411
>1) sliding scaling. I'm sorry but it makes all the big threats seem pathetic when they adjust to your level and can kill them at level one.
The scaling isn't really an exact one-for-one "equal degree of threat at all levels." Shit's way tougher at level 1 than it is at level 20, even if it is scaled to you, because there are a lot of very important elements of character power that TL scaling DOESN'T address -- and that's by design. The TL scaling is more a way to make statblocks *elastic* enough to be usable at any level so you don't need 15 different bestiary entries that are entirely redundant except for level.

And if even that is not to your taste, well, the Non-Scaling NPCs campaign quality is literally made precisely for you.

Spellbound, though, that's certainly a fair point. I feel the core spells are adequate for most spellcaster concepts, but only just barely, and more arcane casting content would be a huge boon.
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>>45258411
>one writer died
>>45258439
>The head writer died.

Wait, what? Are you just talking about Scott Gearin leaving the company, or did someone literally die?
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>>45258582
Yeah, the thing is, PCs change a LOT over their levels even if you cut out numbers entirely.

Fantasy Craft is a game where lateral advances in terms of new options are much more important than the vertical advances of bigger numbers as a general rule.

That's a big part of the reason that despite Vitality bloat being a real thing, it's really not an issue - by the levels where Vitality is big enough to be an issue, pretty much any PC is going to have tools for combat that don't even touch Vitality (or else touch Vitality VERY hard, in the case of gunners/knife boys/other massive damage fishers)
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>>45259812
And even as far as numbers go, two very important numbers for combat do not scale in NPC statblocks: Save DCs, and attack damage.

A fire dragon's bite is 2d12+6 damage, at any TL. Even if the dragon's not using any of its other attacks (it also has two talons, two wing slams, and a tail slap, and can bring them all to bear with a full action flurry), that's a mighty scary chunk of damage for any level 1 character, who's working with relatively little vitality. Even a pretty tanky level 1 PC can be one-shotted just by a single dragon bite if the dragon gets a high damage roll (and/or boosts damage with an action die, if the GM is feeling especially cruel). But a higher-level PC has much more vitality to absorb the dragon's hits, which still deal just as much damage as at TL 1. (Though even a high-level PC is going to need to play mighty cautiously in fighting a dragon, since the dragon still has very considerable damage output even for a high-level vitality total to bear, to say nothing of its high chance to crit between numerous attacks, large threat ranges, and Treacherous quality.)

Similarly, the dragon's Fearsome ability is a DC 20 Will save, no matter the dragon's TL. At level 1, even a character really built for a high Will save (a high Will class, high Wis, Iron Will, and benefiting from spiced comfort food) is still looking at only a 50/50 chance of resisting. More conventional characters are even worse off at low level, failing the save more often than not, and any low-level character who fails the save is similarly going to have some trouble hitting the DC 20 Resolve check to shake the frightened condition (another non-scaling DC). As you go up in level, people's Will save and Resolve bonuses will improve, but the DCs will stay the same, making it more and more manageable with increasing level.

So, both in terms of the numbers and the non-quantitative factors of horizontal progression, TL scaling only does so much.
>>
Anyone wanna story time their campaigns?
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>>45263243
I would, but I usually do, and this time I'm right on a cliffhanger.

It'd also take a lot of explaining the context. tl;dr: Pandering to a PC's backstory is super effective.
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>>45266850
*cough*Leyton*cough*
*cough*Ruirdon*cough*
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>>45268043
que?
>>
Haven't had the chance to play it, but I and a friend have been poking at the system and agree that it's pretty interesting and has a lot of meat.

I'd heard in the past that the socially-focused classes are often pretty important and powerful, especially in the long run. Anyone have any prime examples so I can convince potential players to try them out without being afraid of getting a raw deal by way of having little combat ability? People I've GM'd for before would probably trust me that they'd be relevant, but I can probably expect a couple of fresh faces should I start a game.
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>>45268588
The main way Courtiers and other noncombatant types pull their weight in combat is with skill-based actions.

You've got Threaten, Intimidate vs. Resolve to deal 1d6 stress to an enemy within 30 ft. Note that most NPCs do not have Resolve, so most of the time this will be virtually guaranteed to work. Since stress damage always works on the basis of prompting saves, it doesn't really matter that you're only dealing 1d6 per Threaten; even 1 point of stress damage is enough to give you a decent shot at dropping a standard or slapping a grade of shaken on a special. I haven't yet had anyone relying primarily on Threaten in my games yet, but I have had Mages use it to tremendous effect to round out their turns with the action(s) remaining after casting a spell.

The other major help they can provide is crowd-control, using the Beguiling ability and/or the Fan Service feat to entrance enemies with social skills.

It's also not outside the realm of possibility for a noncombatant to pick up Acrobatics and/or Athletics as Origin skills, expanding the range of special maneuvers they can use to fuck with enemies in combat. You could also take Coordinated feats to help teammates fight better.

Outside of combat, Courtiers just plain dominate social challenges, and are absolutely swimming in money and connections to make sure the party always has plenty of nice things to help them out. This is not 3.PF where everyone follows a certain scaling wealth-by-level guideline together; your resources depend heavily on what kind of characters you have in the party, and with a Courtier you'll never be lacking for resources.

The Keeper's main strength is Crafting (which they do better than any other class), which fills a similar "keep the party supplied with good shit" role as the Courtier, though it's a bit dependent on having lots of downtime. But even if the campaign isn't so crafting-friendly, Keepers make great party faces and are generally great all-around skillmonkeys.
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>>45224697
>Picking a single class and sticking with it.
Honestly, not a huge fan of this. I feel like I'm exchanging performance for fun, when I take an expert class.
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>>45269213
Eh. It's more about refining your niche, I think. The Base classes are better generalists than the Expert classes, but the expert classes tend to do fewer things really well. And some of them are pretty crazy; the Gallant's No More Games is nuts, for example, and easily comparable to the capstone you'd get for sticking to a Base class.
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>>45269291
I suppose, but again, they don't feel like they get enough, to make up for it a lot of the time. While the generalists are "General", it feels like most of their tools are broadly applicable, and very efficient at making you better, while most Expert classes(At least the ones I've seen that make me want to play them), mostly just throw on a smattering of random abilities that fit a specific theme, without much though to how useful they might be.

Random example: The one Expert class that makes you part elemental, and gives you an elemental path? If you choose fire for your path, that class, throughout the course of it, gives you 3 different methods to replace your attack damage with fire damage, that don't stack, or provide any other bonus.
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>>45269213
I mean like, you don't have to take 3 levels of this, 2 levels of anther class, one of a third, to be effective.
I guess you could multiclass to eke every last iota of ability out of each level, but it seems much less productive and much less necessary in FC. When I did it in Pathfinder I felt like I was doing something wrong.
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>>45269213
>>45269410
Honestly, with the possible exception of Edgemaster, I've never felt that any Expert class falls substantially short of what a straight base class gives you.

Like, your Force of Nature example, for one thing you're only looking at two elements out of more than a dozen that have that problem; it's more an artifact of the unified class structure not working out quite as well for those couple of elements compared to others. Furthermore, it's not actually as redundant as you're making it out to be; those options are not in fact identical. There's overlap, but there is a clear progression:
>Elemental Heritage: Convert unarmed damage to fire without -4 attack penalty (but still 1/2 damage)
>Fire II: Adds ability to convert melee damage to fire with full penalties
>Wrath of Nature: Convert unarmed and melee damage to fire at no penalties when in Berserk stance

That's not all that redundant. Granted, it's kind of dumb that Elemental Heritage and Fire II don't waive the conversion penalties in full, and I personally houserule that -- played THAT way you get redundancy. But as-written, not really redundant at all.

And consider what all else the class gives you. A full Path without Alignment baggage is a big deal, and the benefits it provides are pretty hefty. You get an area attack dealing (usually) an exotic damage type, which is pretty nice, and at higher level it also inflicts a condition. You get Elemental Legacy (the only way to get it if you're not a human, giant, or drake!), Turning with more uses than most Turning abilities allow (essentially rendering elementals a total non-threat), and a big chunk of elemental damage resistance FOR THE WHOLE TEAM. It's a very solid suite of benefits, easily comparable to the effectiveness a base class could pull off.
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>>45269213
Expert Classes aren't about raw performance, they're about theme. You could easily make the case that Base Classes are better, unless you want something super specific. That goes triple for Master Classes.
You take Soldier when you want to kill things with hilarious efficiency, you take Swashbuckler when you want an acrobatic socialite swordsman and gunslinger with perky elven tits.
>>
Does anyone have a character builders guide? Like a step by step guide for new players. Looking to run this with my friends
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>>45269824
There's a breakdown of PC creation in the Dropbox, in the 'Assistants' folder.
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>>45208412

The only thing I feel missing from a Drake is something like a Legendary Drake Master class. I've seen homebrew of the other master classes along those lines and it looks pretty neat.

Amongst other things, given them some fucking innate DR.
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>>45272055
You can always take 'draconic heritage'.

I think they could use a higher fly speed though. 40 ft is kinda meh; humanoids who take draconic legacy get 60 ft.

Is a measure of your full-round move, or is that a half-round move action's distance?
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>>45272483
Speed (of any mode) is always your distance for a Standard Move with that mode.

And 40 ft fly speed just from Species alone is quite nice. Remember, in order to get that 60 ft fly from Draconic Legacy, you need to invest 2 feats (one of which can only be taken at level 1, which is a big deal if you're starting from low level) AND reduce your starting action dice by 1. Reduced starting action dice is a very big deal -- not only do the obvious of reducing the number of action dice you have available each session, but it also nerfs everything that keys off of starting action dice (such as Charging Basics, Surge of Speed, Spell Power for a caster, etc).

Consider, a drake can take Draconic Heritage (same as a human), then where a human takes Draconic Legacy (gaining fire breath which a drake already has, and giving up a starting action die for 60 ft fly speed), the drake can use the same feat slot for Fast Flyer instead, upgrading his 40 ft. fly to 80 ft., and gaining a dodge bonus to offset the effective size increase for Defense in flight.
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>>45272483

Dragonic Heritage is indeed one way of doing it.

Tempted to make the class, thought FC isn't my forte and I'd need an idea for a gamechanger. I thought about doing something like "While Drake's are technically bastard dragons, so why not make them into full [baby] dragons with the game changer?"

That could be done by just changing the capstone of Dragon Lord though.
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>>45272055
>>45272633
Honestly, a "Legendary Drake" is really just the Dragon Lord class. Like, that's pretty much exactly what the Dragon Lord class is for (well, that and the flip side of making non-drakes even more half-dragony; it's a neatly versatile little class like that).

All it really needs is an adjustment/replacement for Draconic Legacy on a drake (since drakes gain nothing from the fire breath and don't really care for the trade of an action die for just 20 ft. faster fly speed), and maybe buffing the gamebreaker a bit (which is something that all Dragon Lords need, though drakes less so than others since being able to have hands and fit through doors is a pretty major paradigm shift).
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>>45269881
Which link is it under. Looked in the megashare folder couldnt find it. Also any of the links leading back to crafty are broken now as well
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>>45272937
The Dropbox, not the Mediafire. In this post >>45210983.
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>>45269722
>with the possible exception of Edgemaster

Surge of speed, Deadly Blow, Swagger.
Become an action dice battery or a multiattacking monster (if you combine with extra attacks using action dice abilities).
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>>45272819

>have hands
>fit through doors

Are... Are you shunning the gift of your forefathers?
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>>45273118
Surge of Speed doesn't help with Deadly Blow. 1 round =/= 1 full action.

Does help with Swagger, though the per-session limit on Surge of Speed means it's not something you can really rely on too hugely.

Mostly I just think the Edgemaster is a bit unfocused and a lot of its abilities are subpar. It requires a feat whose main benefit wants you to have 2 free hands, but the class's abilities all deal with melee weapons. Carve is a neat concept, but it's rendered useless against anything with even a moderate amount of DR. Display of Arms is easily the weakest expert class level 2/7 ability, by far; each grade of it is less than even a full feat's worth in value, where normally abilities in that slot of an expert class are closer to 1.5x the value of a feat (often literally being a feat + some extra, like Renown or an Enlightened skill). Blade Dance is super wimpy. Deadly Blow is pretty rad in concept, but super limited due to how long it takes to set up, and how easy it is for that investment of your time and actions to go to waste if you miss or simply if the opponent just moves out of reach.

The rest of the class's abilities are solid enough: Swordplay is neat and effective, 1000 Blades is maybe a bit oddly limited but has neat synergy with Master's Touch and has the advantage of being a free action (which floating feats below level 10 usually aren't). Study the Stance is somewhat modest, but expert class level 4 abilities often are, and being a whole-team buff it's not too bad. Swagger is pretty legit as bonus AD abilities go. And Master's Touch I is of course wicked awesome, and the gamebreaker is mighty sweet too (especially with All-Out Attack, which you have from the prereqs).

But nearly half the class's ability slots are notably below average. It has some pretty sweet stuff, but I'd much rather go straight Martial Artist even for the particular character concept (flashy, showoff, special-action-happy combatant) that the Edgemaster is meant for.
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>>45273506
Well, surge of speed essentially doubles your starting action dice, when fighting standard characters. Wrestling requirement is indeed stupid. Carve can be combined perfectly with instant-tire or mass-taunts, mainly to reproc death saves for standards. Display of arms has very limited use, mainly in combos, but i can see where you are coming from. Blade dance is a good idea, but the bonus is too small. Deadly blow combos well, very well actually, against standard characters.

All in all, i believe the character's focus is portrayed well (though requires a few tweaks, removing the wrestling req and buffing the blade dance bonus to +4/+8) as being a "mook" killer and party support at the same time (through maneuvers and action dice handing), and on high levels this +4 threat range can mean a lot against enemies with bulks of hp, especially if combined with other threat range increasing abilites.
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>>45274488
>Carve can be combined perfectly with instant-tire or mass-taunts, mainly to reproc death saves for standards.
Only standards with no/nearly-no DR. The issue with Carve is that it only deals 2, maybe 3 points of damage if you really made the effort for a bit higher Cha, and being regular old lethal damage it's subject to DR. I guess the prevalence of DR kind of depends a bit on the campaign, but in my experience most things you fight have at least 2 DR, which makes Carve pretty useless against most enemies.

>Deadly blow combos well, very well actually, against standard characters.
Deadly Blow is just a big fat wasted turn if the enemy sees you winding up the big fat wallop and simply takes a 5-ft step back. It's a really nice bonus, to be sure, but between the 1-round setup and the "can't move before the attack" restriction it requires such a huge amount of finagling to actually pull off that it's barely worth it.
Granted, it comes at expert class level 6, so some limitations are expected, but it's really not something you can count on pulling off terribly regularly.

That said, it is definitely the most acceptable of the abilities I'm complaining about, given that if you *can* work out a way to use it more than once in a blue moon (maybe have a teammate who's good at grappling to hold the guy for you or something) it's really, really nice -- plus it just oozes with style, so that makes up for some of the lack of usefulness. Just saying, it is definitely one among quite a few weak points in the class. I'd probably be fine with it if that were the only weak spot, but when it comes alongside Carve being basically useless against most enemies and Display of Arms and Blade Dance both coming in well below the power curve for their slots, I'm definitely going to cite it as one of the reasons why the class is notably inferior to most other options.
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>>45274819
There's one big way to work around the Wrestling issue - specialize in knives.

After all, a Knife user doesn't need to be occupying his hands in order to be armed with a melee weapon, thanks to Knife Basics.

Wrestling Basics/Knife Basics/Fluid Style is a really good combo, since you can take advantage of Open Stance to drop people who approach you and set them up for a nice big Wicked Dance or even Deadly Blow.

Admittedly that's pretty niche, but it does work, and it's even something 1,000 Blades can help you do.
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First time peering into a Fantasycraft thread and seeing what it's all about, and I've got to say this looks really promising as something to ween my group off of 3.5 stagnation. Curious though, as someone who usually likes to do their own worldbuilding, how heavily tied in is the system with the official campaign setting?
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>>45277978
Not at all, since the core book has none. There are a trio in the Adventure Companion but they are more tied to the system than the system being tied to it.
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>>45278065
Also worth mentioning that the book pretty much walks you through world building and the things to consider.
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>>45241518
Holy shit. It's like the half life 3 of pdf's.
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>>45278065
>>45278085
Nice, thanks. Definitely going to check this out now.
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>>45263243
We had this great idea, let put the menace to five while we make journey to the big city. The trip was going to take 1 week it took us 5 months.
>My character was a jewel clan dwarf wizard with the merchant background. named Hoshi.
>Had a wagon and filled it with sake and fireworks the plan was to sell these at the next cities festival make maximum profit.
>Party sets out on the road and is stopped by Kappa's on a bridge.
>I stupidly refuse to turn and take the long way around and cut our profits.
>Combat ensues.
>Solider ends up in the river nearly getting drowned by a Kappa our monk is wrestling another on the bridge.
>Last Kappa jumps up onto my wagon and while trying to get out of melee with it my leg gets caught on the reigns of my donkeys.
>Kappa beats the shit out of my character and farts on him until the monk saves me and the solider manged not to drown.
>Bruised and humiliated we trudge on the next evening things went really tits up.
>Our npc friend a Saurian spots these lantern spirits, not being ready to fight ghost our party starts to flee all of us other than the solider getting on my cart.
>Solider bails on the party and leaves us in the dust on his warhorse.
>Lantern spirits end up lighting my cart on fire and the fireworks and sake in the back end up causing an explosion as we round a bend.
>The entire wagon and it's occupants are sent in all directions.
>Hewn limbs is in play.
>Npc bro flies heads first into a tree granting him brain damage.
>Monk apparently rolls well and gets off with just a broken arm.
>My wizard however as divine punishment for his greed, would know true suffering.
>Caught on fire he flies into the same tree as the our npc breaking his right arm.
>He then falls down and breaks his left leg.
>Laying there dazed and burning hitpoints about to hit 0 he manages to not fizzle spell casting check to put out the fire.
>The donkeys pulling my cart are now a smear on the ground.
>To be continued.
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>>45278893
The three settings that do exist are pretty loose, too. They're well defined but things like significant NPCs and the like are left up to the GM so there's still a lot of room for on-the-fly interpretation of things.
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So, say you want to sway someone to give Fantasy Craft a shot: what would be the thing you tell them about to convince them it's pretty cool?
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>>45284218
low magic high fantasy where everything actually works
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>>45284218
If they're a 3.x grog, I usually run them through a few builds. Let them see what the system lets you do, especially in terms of competent and exciting martials.

If they're new to RPGs, it's more about the basic concepts.
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>>45284218
Kind of depends on what they like in a system, but some hooks you could try based on what would appeal to the one you're trying to persuade:

>You can play a motherfucking dragon

>You can play an badass warrior who truly lives up to the primary combatant role without jumping through umpteen charop hoops to pull it off

>Different weapon choices actually lead to different kinds of fighting styles, with no one weapon being objectively superior to the rest

>Combat is smooth, dynamic and exciting, even at low levels

>No dead levels. No feat taxes. No trap feats.

>You can play a silver-tongued party face focusing on social skills, money, and connections over conventional combat abilities, and actually pull your weight -- even in combat!

>Social mechanics more nuanced and robust than just making a single pass/fail Diplomacy roll to make people do whatever you want

>Character power is not vitally dependent on having a certain level of gear, and the economy keeps mundane gear important and relevant while magic items remain rare and exciting

>You can run low-magic, or even no-magic campaigns without needing oodles of homebrew to keep it from falling apart

>Custom-building NPCs and monsters to fit your campaign is effortless

>It's a flexible toolkit that hands you several dozen official optional/variant rules right out of the box to tweak the preferred tone and playstyle for your campaign

>Races are designed according to a strict point-buy system, which has been reverse-engineered by the fans, so it's easy to modify or homebrew races to suit your campaign world and be confident that it's not unbalanced
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>>45284571
>>45284218

>If they're new to RPGs, it's more about the basic concepts.
That's pretty true.
I've gotten a 3.X player and newbie pretty excited for a possible campaign just by showing them the race options and racial feats.

The 3.X guy also really appreciated the way defenses worked.

Personally, what got me most excited were the Origins and base class Core Abilities.
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>>45284571
>If they're new to RPGs, it's more about the basic concepts.
For someone new to RPGs, you pretty much convince them to try it the same basic way you'd convince someone to try any RPG in general. Talk about the fun of stepping into the shoes of the hero in a fantasy adventure and playing out a story in a fundamentally flexible and open-ended way.

I've run several Fantasy Craft one-shots for people totally new to RPGs, giving them a range of premade characters to choose from (the form-fillable PDF character sheets are a godsend) and kind of walking them through gameplay, advising them what their options are at each point. Everyone's picked it up pretty easily, and had an absolute blast with it. I've even got one group of non-gamer friends who liked it so much we're going to be doing another session here in a couple weeks (it was actually supposed to be yesterday, but life got in the way), probably make a bit of a light, episodic campaign out of it.
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>>45284748
Oh, derp--meant Specialty, not Origin.
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>>45284748
Yeah, if I had to pick one feature that really stands out to me, it's Specialties and how Origins in general work.

It's weird that that little background package makes such a BIG change from standard race+class, but the number of options opened up by Specialty packages (and Talents, for humans) is huuuuge.
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>>45284854
Really just the general customizability of characters beyond simply your class is a huge pro for the system. Not only from Specialty (though that's absolutely a big role), but feats as well. Your choice of feats makes a tremendous impact on your character's theme and role.

Like, you can make literally any base class that isn't specifically a sneaky, underhanded type or noncombatant into a classic, divinely-empowered knight-in-shining-armor paladin type just by taking the right Specialty and feats. Even a Mage can be made into a quite admirable paladin type with the righ selection of self-buff and otherwise cleric-type spells, fluffed as divine magic more than your conventional wizardly style.
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>>45284952
Burglars are one of my favorite classes because of how flexible they are, honestly. And that's to say nothing of Sages and their ability to literally do a bit of everything, but Burglars especially make a good lead in to, like, a billion classes. Including Deadeye, which I love love love.
>>
What class should be used for a Gunslinger? Or master class, assuming it started with a burglar?
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>>45287284
Deadeye is pretty much the go-to class for gunners. It has pretty much all the core benefits, if you want guns to be the focus of how your character fights.

You could also go for a Skirmisher for a survivalist sniper kinda vibe or basically any class that has plenty to do on its not-shooting turns.
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>>45287284
Depends what you want to do. Personally, I like the swashbuckler angle, sword and gun, but honestly just straight burglar would work fine, or almost any of the base classes, really, since they're quite general and the "gunslinger" aspect would mostly be feats/tricks you'd take.

There is also Deadeye which has a focus on bows/blackpowder weapons, but to me seems more sniper like, not that it couldn't be used effectively as a gunslinger.
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>>45287284
>>45287429
It's tough to do an Old West style gunslinger in FC, given that the only guns available are slow-firing muzzle loaders. About the only way to do anything resembling rapid-fire is to carry a whole brace of pistols to draw-and-drop.

So, to that end, Deadeye definitely plays most to guns' strengths. It is more sniper-oriented, but that fits because the slow-firing, high-damage nature of guns in FC (both sidearms and long arms) naturally inclines them toward that role. It can still work quite well for a more conventional gunslinger, though. It increases your range, but there's nothing about it that necessarily requires you to go for the whole sniper-style "hide in the weeds and pick off a guy from far away". It's all about hitting flat-footed targets extremely hard, which of course fits with the sniper role, but also works well for a more dueling-type gunslinger focused on fast-draw and fakeouts.

(Rune Knight also works well, though obviously for gunmage types rather than mundane gunslingers.)
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>>45287942
I prefer Flaying Rune Knight with a Hykosian Katana with Keen upgrade Burying the Blade for 32 keen.

Because it's silly. I'm pretty sure a level 14 Rune Knight could bisect a medieval knight with a simple vertical slash.
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>>45288102
How does Keen and shit work anyway?

In fact, how do normal attacks send someone to the Table of Ouch? I'm not seeing a particularly feasible way of dealing 25+ damage in one hit. I mean, a 12 on a greatsword die, +5 from a particularly high Strength score, +6 from an All Out Attack... It just doesn't seem possible.
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>>45288511
Keen is just 'pretend you did this much extra damage to objects/for whether or not you hit critical injury damage'

As to how you get into the Table of Ouch? Action dice. Sneak attacks can also help.
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>>45288102
You don't even have to be a Rune Knight for that.

Keen H̶y̶k̶o̶s̶i̶a̶n̶ GRORIOUS NIPPON steel katana, wielded with both hands: 1d10+1 base damage, keen 12
+4 dmg (Str mod)
+1 dmg (Crunch! from Specialty)
+3 dmg (Martial Spirit stance, Sword Basics)
+10 keen (Bury the Blade)
+2 dmg (Sword Supremacy, minimum bonus if you get Bury the Blade off)
+1d4 dmg (Edged Master)
+2 dmg (Killer Instinct)
+4 keen (Ferocity Supremacy)

That gives you 1d10+1d4+13 damage, keen 26. Average result of 47, so if you roll high on your damage roll (and/or attack roll, thanks to Sword Supremacy), you'll be in Massive Damage territory against an unarmored target.

And this is without adding in more potential damage from All-Out Attack, sneak attack from whatever feats, etc., which you'll easily have the slots to pick up by level 14 as a Soldier.
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>>45288687
Rune Knight gets you Flaying Rune for an extra 10 Keen, though.

That's way more consistent.
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>>45288511
Keen is "virtual" damage applied only for determining critical injuries and death by massive damage. It adds to your damage total for determining if you even trigger a save against injury/death to begin with, as well as for determining the DC of that save (if you do clear the threshold) and what you add to the roll on the Table of Ouch to determine the kind of injury. But it isn't actual damage, so it doesn't make a standard NPC's damage save against the hit any harder, or take off any vitality/wounds from a special.

Hitting the Table of Ouch is generally not something that happens with ordinary attacks unless you either build for massive damage (which usually entails stacking up lots of keen and/or sneak attack) or just get lucky with an action die boost to the damage roll.
Unless the Hewn Limbs quality is in play, anyway. Then it gets a lot more feasible.
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>>45288777
Thank you.

I keep hearing talk of vitality bloat making normal combat tedious at higher levels, and how most people will find a way to bypass it- either stress or subdual or critphishing or what have you- and I haven't actually gotten around to building anything like that, so I'm worried my soldier's 'do damage' abilities are going to trail off.
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>>45288842
I mean, Vitality gets high, but not impossibly so.

You can build a Soldier who just chips folks down okay. Especially with the multi-attack feats - thanks to defenses being balanced around 3/4ths as default progression, a Soldier feels the -2/-5 from the 'extra attacks' feats a lot less than anyone else.

Crits are generally a bit more effective, but even then, a lot of the same monsters that see big vitality bloat also have Tough in order to eat a few crits.
>>
>>45288748
Rune Knight isn't capable of pulling off Bury the Blade as reliably as a Soldier is (lower BAB), can't afford to invest quite as much in Str (you also have casting stats to worry about, right?), and doesn't have the feat slots to get as much support toward it.

Plus, the Soldier can do this all day, whereas the Rune Knight does need to invest a spell point each time he wants to Flay. The Soldier also comes online as a massive damage dealer earlier, since the Flaying Rune keys off of Rune Knight class level but the Soldier is able to pick up the feats (and attack bonus) to consistently hit Table of Ouch (and even, with some luck, instant death) at a fairly early level. I actually had a player in a one-shot doing exactly that, a Soldier built for massive damage with a katana, and he consistently hit 35+ damage on the Table of Ouch, and could with a bit of luck (and/or action dice) get to instant death territory using All-Out Attack and popping a use of Combat Focus. This at level 6; I don't think a Rune Knight at that level could compare for massive damage.

Not saying the Rune Knight can't do it at higher levels, and do it well, but it's really not substantially better at it than the Soldier.
>>
>>45288842
You can also always just make yourself a solid niche as a mook-sweeper. Especially if you're using a greatsword (as >>45288511 seems to possibly suggest?), you're well positioned to be able to cut down silly numbers of standards in a single round. Vitality bloat only comes into play for specials, but specials are a distinct minority among things that you'll fight (or they're supposed to be). With Spiral Cutter and the Cleave chain, plus maybe Darting/Flashing Weapon, Contempt, and Decisive Attack for good measure, you will be an absolute blender on the battlefield. When facing down a bad guy and his

And if you take Darting/Flashing Weapon, those extra attacks will help you get crits against specials to boot, since you're rolling more often and thus having more chances to get in the threat range.
>>
After briefly churning through the rulebook I am a bit concerned about the crunchiness. Stuff like Panache and down-time rules seem unnecessarily complex and crunchy.
>>
>>45290295
It's definitely dense but all that stuff serves a purpose.

Lifestyle and the down-time rules, for example, are a big part of what makes the economy of the game hold up, in that it gives a consistent return on *adventuring* over anything else while still letting crafting be viable since you can potentially get a ton of value out of crafting (and investing your mid-adventure cash) over waiting until the end of the adventure (when Prudence is going to trim your profits a bit)

This is a game where party composition will make a significant difference to party wealth. No WBL here aside from a pittance. You need to go earn your gear.

That's supported, though, by the fact that mundane gear is actually good and worthwhile to have.
>>
>>45290474

I see. How does the overall crunchiness/ease of use compare with D&D?
>>
>>45290596
There are a lot of little rules, so it's definitely about as crunchy as 3.5

But most of the rules kind of stand on their own (it's a very modular system) so you don't have to cross-reference things all the time.

The book is laid out very poorly, but once you learn the system I've found it flows a lot more neatly than 3.5 because there's fewer ambiguous situations (and the answer to the few that remain is explicitly 'ask your DM' because they tend to be yes/no questions)

In terms of ease of use, I'd say it's NOTABLY easier on the DM side of things thanks to sliding scale monsters, a really robust world and adventure building guide, and a generally more narrative, cinematic flow that gives you a lot more wiggle room than 3.5 without having to worry about whether the system will hold up.

As a player, I'd say it's about as complex in play, but a lot easier in terms of character creation - character creation is just as complex, maybe more since there's lots of different choices, but none of them are trap options, so you don't have to agonize over character optimization to the degree you do in 3.X (although if that's your ballgame, you can go nuts)
>>
>>45290729
There are a few things that make playing it simpler though
1. The death of Vancian means lots less book-keeping for mages. This is a godsend, since wizards trying to plan out their day eats a lot of time in my experience.

2. Two-half actions is a much simpler action economy, so even though martials have more actions, they can generally make their decisions quicker.

3. Lots of weird one-off rules like Pathfinder's CMB/CMD or 3.5's original grapple rules are replaced with simple opposed skill checks. In fact, basically every weird outlier situation 3.X was fond of is now just 'hey, opposed skill chceck'
>>
>>45290596
It's honestly a significantly less complex and crunchy system than 3.x, IMO. There are rules covering more things (Lifestyle, Disposition, and Reputation/Renown/Prizes being the biggest ones), but the rules themselves are pretty simple and straightforward, and the whole thing comes together in a fairly sleek and streamlined whole, as rules-heavy systems go. The rules FC has to cover the things games usually cover are pretty simple and elegant for any given thing, none of the fiddly super-detailed stuff with loads of caveats and tweaks like its 3.x ancestors have. Everything's concise and to the point, leaving corner cases and complex interactions up to the GM to decide on a case-by-case basis rather than spelling out every last eventuality. Plus rules of a given type follow consistent patterns amongst themselves, making them easy to remember. For instance, save DCs for effects added on to an attack are nearly always just equal to the damage dealt by the attack, and barring that save DCs nearly always follow the formula 10 + <# of feats in particular relevant category> + attribute mod.

It's certainly on about the same general order of magnitude as 3.x for crunchiness, but overall a lot sleeker and more elegant.
>>
>>45290729
>As a player, I'd say it's about as complex in play, but a lot easier in terms of character creation - character creation is just as complex, maybe more since there's lots of different choices, but none of them are trap options, so you don't have to agonize over character optimization to the degree you do in 3.X (although if that's your ballgame, you can go nuts)

In my experience, the system creates more clutter for the players due to the wealth of options, and particularly the various conditional bonuses or actions that can come up in combat. Figuring out which stances to activate and when, which maneuvers to use and which of your passive bonuses apply to each particular situation has made combat very slow for my group.

That said, we adore the freedom imparted to character creation, and we can spend days building a single character to tweak it exactly how we want it. We've also made several characters we never played, just to try out concepts and optimize different builds.

So it's both a quality and a detriment in my opinion, and for my group it means we only play low- to mid-level characters so we can have some of the customization without accumulating too much crunch. Even at level 6 it was hard to fit everything on the character sheets. If this were a video game with a computer taking care of crunching your numbers and giving you a clean list of options, it would be fantastic.
>>
>>45291708
>and which of your passive bonuses apply to each particular situation
This is kind of odd to me, since in my experience FC is way, way better than 3.PF as far as adding up lots of fiddly circumstantial bonuses. I can see the point about deciding what actions to take, since you do have a lot more options at your disposal between tricks and the various skill-based actions (though really I haven't seen too much in the way of characters having lots of stances unless they're specifically aiming for just that, and the situations where it's good to use them tend to be pretty obvious). But the combat math is a lot simpler and easier to keep track of than 3.PF in my experience.

And it is worth noting that the option paralysis issue is sort of the flip side of one of FC's major strengths -- namely, that combat is more dynamic and interesting than just spamming full attacks round after round.
>>
>>45291920
Absolutely, and unlike D&D4, it doesn't do it by making every class some weird magic user that can only do each trick once per fight for whatever reason.

Having a Baldur's Gate-like video game using FC as a system really would be phenomenal, though, now that I think about it. I can't imagine how many hours I would spend making a party.
>>
>>45259812

Vitality bloat concerned me to the point where I was considering using fragile heroes. Is such a thing needed?
>>
>>45292241
I wonder what it would cost to license FantasyCraft for a game.

I'd have to be decent at making video games first.

And figure out which setting to use. Sunchaser, probably. Widest variety of character options baked into the setting.

Could also put together a homebrew setting using every race just to have the full suite of options.
>>
>>45295291
IDK. I've only played using fragile heroes.
But my DM came from D&D and Pathfinder before it, and I'm not sure he's actually playing by the same rules, standard/special characters, etc.

As a PC I haven't noticed any problems with Fragile Heroes.
>>
>>45295371
For me default seems pretty high, but that might be that one of my players is a soldier with a good constitution in articulated plate.
>>
>>45295431
how on earth did he afford that
OH, I thought you meant at low levels.
Maybe? Based on advice above I made a drake with decent constitution for a whopping 25 wounds and 45 Vitality at 3rd level. That feels pretty obscene. I'm not sure my 8th level Fragile Heroes soldier has that much.
>>
>>45295475
I wonder how you could max out Wounds.

Probably some kind of Large-sized Bloodsworn. Any way to stack Rock Solid in there?
>>
>>45295565
Giant Blooded Svelte Human with going Bloodsworn could work.
>>
>>45295593
It makes you Large but I don't think it actually changes wounds calculation.

Wouldn't be the first time - Unborn have one Species Feat option that gives Large, and another that gives 1.5x Wound calculation.

I think the best you can do is Ogre (for +4 Con) Martial Artist (for Con-based fighting to make it easier to focus Con) into Bloodsworn (for those extra 10 wounds)

Well, a Rock Solid human probably wins eventually. But the Ogre's got a lot easier time pumping CON and has a big lead out the gate thanks to the 1.5x
>>
>>45295686
Anything that shifts size also changes wounds accordingly unless it specifies otherwise (as the Hulking Frame option of Custom Construction does).

Giant-Blooded would work.
>>
>>45295711
Ah. Then yeah, it basically comes down to 'are you willing to pay for an 18 instead of a 14 with a +4'
>>
>>45295800
Particularly given that the Giant-Blooded human ultimately catches up and then some with Rock Solid, yeah.

The ogre gets a total of +6 wounds over the human right from the start with the same points invested in Con, but the human gets +1 wound per level, so past level 6 the human has more wounds. (The ogre would be more durable in other respects though, thanks to the higher vitality from Con bonus, plus No Pain and Unbreakable.)
>>
While I do hate the inane crunchiness that pops up from time to time, the thing I love about FC is the balance.

...Well, it seems more balanced than 5e.

Anyway, the amount of numbers and tables with magic item creation makes my eye roll. Any hints on building an uber fencing blade that is only uber when one handed.

Doing that to dissuade the Giant Fencer Soldier in the party to get Two-Weapon Fighting & Co since enough people in the party have it already.

I dunno, I can be a control freak at times.
>>
>>45298192
You could just point out Flashing Weapon and how it gives him basically the same advantages without having to buy a second weapon.

Or you could just let him TWF with a rapier and main gauche
>>
>>45298192
>>45298419
If the weapon is going to be magical to begin with, why not just add the Flashing Weapon feat to the it?
>>
>>45295869
Yeah, No Pain and Unbreakable are pretty good (although you can get No Pain from a couple Specialties so the Human could potentially pick them up - but then, the Ogre doesn't have to)

Either one is going to end up being a real thick lad. Tenacious Spirit is an obvious target from Specialty just to stack on even more survivability.

The Ogre *does* have the option of going troll for Regeneration on top of his massive health pool, which is pretty solid, although trolls come with some hefty costs.
>>
Just a rules clarification, for mooks stress damage can cause them to die/faint/whatever right? Its basically subdual vs non-special dudes?
>>
>>45299144
Yeah, all forms of damage are just 'damage' for standards, and a failed damage save takes them out of the fight in whatever method seems appropriate.
>>
>>45299175
Heh, my fearmancer build would have worked then!
It was a really spooky assassin ogre that caused everyone in the room to constantly take stress damage.
>>
I first played fantasycraft some time ago and was drawn in by a lot of it but the devs basically didn't give a shit at all about it. Have the devs released anything new or do they still just shill for mistborn?
>>
>>45299450
They put out a batch of new classes recently (although by recently I mean several months ago)

And it's less 'don't give a shit about it' and more 'the market for OGL-based games is shrinking rapidly and Pathfinder has its grips firmly around the shaft anyway, so in order to NOT GO BANKRUPT, we're making other products to keep ourselves afloat while we write an enormous sourcebook using only two people'
>>
>>45299483
Uhuh. Is mistborn any good?
>>
>>45298419
>>45298854
True. One thing though, why are Flashing/Darting Weapon Melee feats and TWF and TWS Basic Combat feats? Seems weird.
>>
>>45299842
Mostly for balance reasons, honestly. If they weren't in Basic Combat, then that group would be more empty and less enticing, even with all the tricks that key off of BASIC and not MELEE combat.
>>
>>45300191
It also means you can use TWF with ranged or hurled weapons.
>>
>>45300254
Oh hell yes
>>
If you use Martial/Master's Art to move unarmed damage off of Str, do you still get Crunch!/Tiger Nation/etc benefits to your Unarmed damage?

I'm thinking about playing a Tiger elf going Martial Artist into Edgemaster, and it seems like Wisdom is an easy pick for Martial/Master's Art thanks to the big plus elves get there, but Tiger Nation elves get pseudo-Crunch! which seems really handy.
>>
>>45217416
Then you should probably just shut up about it
>>
>>45300595
Nope, Crunch! does exactly what it says: Increases STRENGTH-based damage rolls.
Your damage isn't based on Str? No Crunch! for you.

Them's the breaks.
>>
>>45301013
Ah well. Guess I'll just bite the bullet.

I guess I can just skimp on Wis and use the extra points to have better Str than your average weedy elf.
>>
>>45295300
Well, you can just sort of do it as long as it doesn't reference product identity aspects like the name or book titles or prepackaged setting things: the rules are 100% OGC outside of that.
>>
>>45301801
Yeah, but I kind of like the idea of getting to kick Crafty some bucks and publicity.

Make it clear that Fantasy Craft is still a viable product, too.
>>
>>45301933
Now a-days a good way to kickstart interest in an rpg is to have some known nerdperson run a game of it via stream or youtube videos.
>>
>>45302022
I guess I could hassle Ironicus. He's relatively well known and has tried a lot of game systems.

It might not be in his wheelhouse though, he tends to stick to lighter stuff in the DW/13th Age vein.
>>
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Vabo.png
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Hey, I'm working again on the Snid race, what do you think of these abilities for the Master Class?

Level 4: Crab Battle
When you force an opponent to move, they take X damage for every 5 feet they travel, where X is a number that I'm not quite sure of. 3? You may also spend one action die when moving a target to boost their distance traveled by the result.

Example: Jick uses the shove trick to move his foe 5 feet. He spends a d4 action die and rolls a 2, so the target moves an additional 10 feet. After the movement, they take 9 damage.
Is that too good though?

Gamebreaker: Laws of the Wild
You can initiate a grapple against targets of any size up as long as they are weigh n ore than a heavy load for you. In addition, your Strength is considered 15 higher for the purpose of carrying capacity.

Give thoughts. I have no sense of scale, so this might be too strong.
>>
>>45302252

The Gamebreaker is really, really weak. It should be a level 10-tier ability, and change it to "You count as (2-3) sizes larger for the purposes of initiating and resisting grapple and bull rush checks". Also, your strength is considered 4 higher for carrying capacity.

Level 20 equiv: "You may initiate grapples and bull rushes against characters of any size. You take no penalties for being smaller than your target, and your target gains no bonuses for being larger. Also, you are no longer limited by carrying capacity."

The movement thing is extremely powerful. A good bull rush can move people like 30 feet. That's an easy 18 points of damage right there. Also, by the time you enter a Master Class, your Ad is going to be like d8
>>
>>45302378
I just figured that with Vitality Bloat, by the time you get that ability (level 15) 18 damage is nothing. Maybe add a bit that says "this damage cannot trigger injury or massive damage"?
>>
>>45302411
Remember that vitality bloat simply does not come into play for at least 80% of the things you fight. Special characters are the exception, not the rule, and for standards a big chunk of damage is a big deal, at any level.
>>
>>45302604
Point taken, but you can only bull rush one standard each round, and very few effects move whole swathes of enemies.

Another idea I had was "You add the number of damage that you have dealt in the round to your Intimidation checks and stress damage rolls." How does that sound?
>>
>>45302411
18 damage in addition to the effects of the bull rush, and in addition to the damage bull rush can do when you impact things, and the possible damage from various tricks.
>>
>>45302750
Nobody is going to keep track of the exact amount of damage they've done.

How about, increase threat range on Threaten by 2, +2 damage against anybody you've damaged this round.
>>
Holy shit. We actually filled an entire thread, for once. Hot damn.
>>
>>45304253
Time for a new one? This time with the proper OP links and Dropbox?

We're on page 9 and falling off, after all.
>>
>>45304393
Make it so.
>>
>>45304446
Are you saying we should stat the crew of the TNG Enterprise as a band of NPC explorers on a sailing ship?
>>
>>45304668
MAKE
>>
>>45304757
IT
>>
>>45304776
SO
>>
>>45304253
I haven't looked for an FC thread in months and was surprised to find one when I did last night. Have they been continuing regularly or was I just very lucky? It seemed that they tapered off after Spellbound didn't come out last year.
>>
>>45304668
Not really. I noticed that discussing home brew tends to kill the thread pretty quickly, because outsiders think it's just homebrew discussion, and nobody really gives a shit about homebrew except the person who designed it, and anybody who wanted the specific thing they were designing.
>>
>>45304883
You're lucky. I have my extension set up to pseudo-pin any FC thread to the top of my page and there are very few.
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