Post D&D Alignment Questions

>>45100365
It's lawful whatever it is. I guess it could be pulled off by LG in a very specific circumstance but most likely LN or LE, maybe CE.

>>45100365
Depends on the intention and the statues in question.

If you're destroying evidences of the past in order to glorify your own cause and rewrite history in your favor, that's Evil.

>>45100365
Are they evil statues?

>>45100365
I don't know, I'd judge any action morally based on the intent of the actor.

If an action is made with malice or selfishness, then it is evil. If it's motivated by altruism, then it's good. If neither, then neutral.

A lot of people would then use this to justify all kinds of stupid shit, "But my paladin can kill all these orc babies because he really means well!" Fuck 'em. It's impossible to commit an evil act for completely good reasons. It's quite possible to commit a stupid one, but everyone who's ever committed an evil act knew deep down it was wrong.

>>45100440

And if you just destroy them because you don't like statues but it offers you no selfish benefit whatsoever?

>>45100523
Chaotic Neutral

>>45100365
Its not evil or good in and of itself.

Speculation on it without info, is stupid.

>>45100365

Neutral.

>>45100365
nice job anon.

Clearly lawful.

>>45100523
Still probably evil.
Someone worked to make them and someone went to the trouble of preserving them. Destroying a thing just because you don't like it is the same as stealing a thing because you want it. It's acting drasticly one personal impulse or desire without consideration for how it might effect others.

>>45100887

What if everyone who did all that is dead now?

Alternatively, if they were in fact preserved by someone, what if the people who were preserving it were in fact thieves who took other people's statues and then took care of them as if they were their own, though they were not?

>>45100365

Important question. Is post a verb or is it post as in post-modernism? Because I thought it was the latter at first. But now it looks like it may have been the former.

>>45100440
They destroy them because they think the statues might one day be worshiped as gods. The statues are just normal statues.

>>45100967

I meant that people could post other non-standard alignment questions.

Is tagging a wall evil? Is cleaning said tag evil if it was for a good cause?

so on a related note i found out how to do anything you want without falling or /tg/ calling you out

make your character a shitskin

i can only imagine the things you could get away with if you make a female shitskin...

>>45100365
Last one didn't even break

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>>45101328
>insist that your character wear a Burqa
>get a constant +10 Disguise bonus and +5 to Hide checks
>can smuggle all of the other PC's weapons in to the King's banquet

>>45100935
Then those thieves obviously cared deeply about those statues or what they represented if they went to such trouble to take care of them. And the fact that those people are breaking them makes the argument even worse - sure, there's no one to return it to, but in that case you should leave it with the thieves or return it to the people with the most legitimate claim.

>>45100365

t's a fucking piece of rock, anon.
A fucking piece of rock that some heretic hammered a face on a thousand years ago.
It's not important.
Unfortunately, some people think it IS important, so you smash it to make sure they have no heritage to go back to but the Prophet.

Personally I think it's genius to destroy the museums. To leave the idolatry of other civilizations standing is a form of moral cowardice; like saying you don't truly believe in the final perfection of your own civilization.
10/10, cultural genocide best genocide.

Once again, it's a fucking rock.

>>45102138
Chaotic Evil Indentified

>>45100468
I value your sage opinion.

>>45102138
Hey Big Brother, glad to know you've got a head start on rewriting history as needed.

What alignment is crucifixion, specifically the crucifixion of someone who actually did some bad.

>>45100365
I see wanton destruction under any context as chaotic evil

But I also play LG unless plot

>>45102138

I think it's stupid because if they conquer Saudi Arabia, then eventually the Russians will go into Mecca and destroy the Kaaba.

Russia's had its eye on the whole Arabian peninsula, bit is stymied by Americans being allied with the Saudis on one hand, and Islamic radicalism on the other. ISIS is clearing away the first, and bulldozing Mecca shatters the second. Between terrorism, religious intolerance, and desecration of historical and religious artifacts, they're building the case for turnabout being fair play.

Not that the world community won't bitch and moan. But they won't do anything else, especially if the oil keeps flowing cheaply. Privately, many world leaders will heave a sigh of relief.

It's not that ISIS hasn't thought it through. They just can't believe that they can lose. And they think, "if the Russians dare, we will go at them with all our might". Except that they're already doing that. Destroying Mecca would shatter Islam into a million screaming factions blaming each other.

If you're a Muslim and haven't done so yet, you should do the Hajj while you still can.

Yes, it is certainly. I recently had my players go through some ancient ruins where bandits were destroying statues and technology just to obtain the scrap metal that made that shit up.

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>>45102138

Sad that once Muslims take over the world, their people won't even be able to look at the past and wonder how much better the world could have been. To me, that is what is most scary about that religion, look at what they did in Afghanistan and to the pagans in the Arabian peninsula.

If you could create a spell that forced everyone in the universe to turn good, and follow it up with a spell that killed everyone in the universe before they had a chance to turn back to evil, would combining the two be an evil act?

>>45102937
>forced everyone in the universe to turn good,
That in and of itself is inherently evil.

Is it a good deed to kill a defenseless creature if they, by nature, say an orc or a drow, are considered evil?

>>45103037
Does that make them innocent?

>>45103180
They were grabbed from the woods, as far as you know, they haven't done anything wrong. But being inherently evil, it can be assumed they've done wrong things in the past.

>>45102881
>once Muslims take over the world
You're hilarious.

>>45103231
Well, I ask them if they've done anything wrong. If they have, the goodliest good deed I could do is let the law deal with them instead of an instant execution. If they're innocent, I should let them go.

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>>45103037

>>45101783
I'd eat her raw, if you know what I'm saying.

Oral sex. I'm talking about oral sex.

/tg/, you are way too morally relativistic.

>>45103339
I find it odd how the LG guy would execute or imprison the enemy, and the NG guy would just let them free. The former doesn't seem like particularly good behavior, more neutral, and the latter seems like the most pansy kind of good that you'd expect from a paladin afraid to fall.

>>45103389
>/tg/, you are way too morally relativistic.

no its just that /tg/ is now reddit and youre only allowed to call white people evil or wrong

>>45103389
So you're saying that we disagree? Considering that we're all a bunch of different people from different cultures, that makes sense.

>>45103491
I'm not convinced.

>>45103503
Sorry, where did I say that? If anything, you guys agree too much.

>>45100398
wtf no, destruction of history is never lawful.

This is chaotic neutral at best, more likely evil

>>45103402

Lawful Good can be an incredibly dangerous alignment, given the right circumstances. Adherence to the absolute letter of the law doesn't leave much room for mercy. The greater good, and all that.

>>45103548
>I'm not convinced.

ask /tg/ if a bunch of white people burning books is evil and see what sort of answer you get

half of this board is now nigger lovers

>>45103592
inb4 back in my day

>>45103548
Google is not helping me understand moral relativism. Sorry.

>>45103611
what is your post even supposed to mean? that you agree with me and you like it?

>>45103491
>>45103592

I take it from your posts that you had an argument with a total stranger on a board about traditional games about a subject that had nothing or little to do with traditional games, and from that totally irrelevant and utterly inconsequential duel of wits you decided that an entire section of an anonymous image board has made the horrifying and woeful decision to subscribe to a set of beliefs in direct opposition to your own?

Because /tg/ is one person?

You twat waffle?

>>45103669
>You twat waffle?

shit reddit is breaking out the big guns

>>45103613
Don't be sorry.

Viewing things in terms of moral perspective, rather than right or wrong.

This certainly has its place in society, but now more than ever I feel like it is supplanting moral values than humanity has spent many years and many lives putting into place.

>>45103710
Well, morality is a bit more general and all-encompassing, and right or wrong is more a matter of law and specific situations, and can be a bit of a gut instinct, at least as far as I understand.

So when asking questions about alignment, shouldn't we have to take a moral viewpoint, especially when part of the question is a question of what is good or evil, and we have to think critically about this?

>>45103766
But what is good and evil isn't a question, in this case. D&D had guidelines on what makes up absolute good and evil.

>>45100365
CE tending towards NE because they have an agenda

>>45103854
I guess the problem then is that most people think that those are up to interpretation, or that the current interpretation is flawed.

>>45100365
In the area of CN-CE-NE.

>>45103572
I hate to break this to you, but random statues are not History in some physical sense. You can derive history from them, sometimes, but never conclusively and they aren't history in and of themselves.

Most statues are gaudy pop-art that say little to nothing about events or contexts. And they can always -- always -- be recreated. Don't fetishize marble, anon. It's not healthy.

ITT

>tryhard first semester college students trying too hard to be deep and supportive of anything brown people do

>>45104022
There at 300 million of them and they think declaring war on these cultures (the descended from those that made these statues, or that like them) is a good idea and they support it.

>>45104022
Some of those statues are irreplacable though, and can tell us a lot. For instance, for a while it took the Babylonians a while to make a proper three-dimensional winged lion that was correct from all sides, so they had three legs to make an optical illusion of the creature having four from most angles.

>>45103572
Their law code (Hannabi) is very strict vis a vis idolatry.

What they're doing is following the law to the goddamn letter.
The question is then, are you willing to declare that the law is not lawful?

>>45103581
That'd be Lawful neutral anon.

>>45104224
>Hannabi

I meant Hanbali.
I don't even know how I fucked that one up.

>>45100365
In a Muslim universe? Lawful Good: those statues are idols, and idols are to be cast down, because the prophet said so (and so their destruction is Lawful) and because idols cause men to sin and risk damning them to Hell (and so their destruction is Good).

I'm not terribly educated in ancient Middle-East history or much of today's political climate, but this shit rises a tremendous fire in me and I can't articulate why.

>>45106068
>I can't articulate why

because youre an evil white racist and dont give enough money to brown people for dem programs

>>45100365
They obviously see it as good. I see it as stabbings-worthy

>>45106068
Because it was made this way. It's called propaganda.

>>45100365
Yes, but it depends on your culture

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>>45102881
>once Muslims take over the world

>>45100365
Obviously everything depends on motivation and context.

>>45103366
Ease off Muhammad, she's just a kid.

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>>45100365

>>45100365
Fun fact: a good part of the statue and other antiques aren't destroyed but sold to finance daesh.

>>45100365
Yes, that's an Evil act.

It's the senseless destruction of artifacts that serve as a connection to the past.

>>45102881
>Sad that once Muslims take over the world

Want to hear the bad news?

If Muslims ever become the majority population in the West, they're going to get secularized, keeping the culture but losing the spirit behind it.

>>45103572
>destruction of history is never lawful
It is when you follow an evil law like Islam.

They're not destroying the statues for lulz (which would be chaotic evil), they're destroying them because the statues violate the rules of their villainous death cult.

>>45106068
Because they're trying to destroy humanity's collective past?

>>45107872
You say that like it's a bad thing.

>>45103366
>six, maybe seven years old?

>>45106068
It's because ancient relics are irreplaceable.

When ISIS kills random Arab peasants, it's unfortunate, but it doesn't really change anything. The thing about people is that we just keep making more of them. A generation after ISIS is gone, those lands will still be full of people more or less identical to the ones ISIS is killing, and it will be almost like nothing ever happened at all.

But when art is destroyed, it's gone forever. You can't just order a replacement idol from a Babylonian sculptor, because Babylon is gone. What we've got in museums is all we'll ever have of these things, and each time one of them is destroyed, the cultural legacy of our entire species gets a little bit poorer in a lasting way.

>>45100365
it's a chaotic act (destruction of the property of others, destruction of historically important items, vandalism) but not itself evil, I think. I'd have to know the motivations and intent of their actions.

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Let's steer clear from this /pol/fest and ignore OP's very baity post.

Instead. Align them, /tg/.

>>45108164
LG and NG, with ideologies at odds.
Javert took falling very seriously. Shame about the Foley work in the movie.

>>45108164
>>45108297

I'd say LN and CG.

Javert isn't Good, he doesn't believe that criminals can repent or sins can be forgiven. That's why he falls. But he isn't evil either as he doesn't use law as an excuse for more crimes. To him, the Law is the word of God and everyone has to live by it and failure to do so is a mortal sin.

Valjean is Chaotic Good. He keeps breaking the Law, but to do the greater good. He jumps in the middle of the Barricade to save his daughter's boyfriend from dying, but lets everyone else behind.

The real question is what class are they. Paladins?

>>45103402
Gary Gygax would expect the Paladin to put the Law before himself, and if a prisoner that was let free went and did evil, he'd probably make the paladin fall.

>>45108468
Gary Gygax was shit DM no less

>>45104224
Except they are also selling the more valuable pieces on the black market.

>>45100468
>hitler did nothing wrong because he thinks so
>hitler did things wrong because we think so

it is all a matter of perspective , no matter what "universal morality"-fags say

>>45107899
Drow and Orcs are listed as Chaotic Evil, yet their religion says murder elves and vandalize shit.
Either you are being PC, or just simply oblivious to how alignment is supposed to work.

>>45108164

>asking questions is bait

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what alignment would be an actual inquisitor be compared to a white knight paladin

>>45111785

Lawful Good. The Inquisition never burned or tortured people and invented the concept of innocent until proven guilty.

>>45111857
what about the spanish inquisition

>>45111900

Those are who I was talking about.

>>45111934
what would be the stats of a spanish inquisitor

i want to play one

>>45104022
Subtle isis posting

>>45100365
In no way conceivable is that an Evil act according to D&D alignments, unless they're some type of magic ward being destroyed to let evil loose upon the world.
>>45100468
Paladins can, according to Gary Gygax, absolutely slaughter orc children in the name of Good.

>>45109573

No, their religions glorify violence, but they're not following a strict code or procedure in the carrying out of such violent acts.

Also, he's being PC? What the hell does that have to do with alignments?

Anyways, random destruction is CE; destruction of specific items which your religious code instructs you to destroy is LE.

Now, are Daesh LE or CE? Neither, because the real world doesn't work on RPG rules.

>>45100398
Just a lawful mob going around smashing valuable statues for fun.

>>45103572
Destruction of history is lawful if the law says it is.

>>45107827
Is that evil though? I mean is the act of smashing those statues themselves hurting anyone?

What's a character's alignment if he's working towards a fundamentally good ideal, but stops at nothing to accomplish it?

I also don't understand the differences between CG and CN, and NE and TN. They seem to represent the same types of characters.

Can you ever be chaotic anything if you have a clear plan and objective you're working towards?

>>45113944

Yeah, I'd say so. A secessionist group might be considered chaotic.

>>45100935
The fact you tortured the caretaker and executed him when he didn't tell you where he'd hidden artifacts so you couldn't destroy them makes you CE, whatever your other intentions or motivations, and this includes your co-durkas.

>>45108164
>>45108387
Never saw the movie.
Javert is LG, he follow the Law because he believe it is Good and Right. He also believes that once a criminal, always a crimina. When he realize the error of his way, he kill himself because his world his shattered and he doesn't know how to deal with it.
Jean Valjean is CG, or LG in a way. He doesn't follow the Law and only follow his heart, but he also follow the word of God.

>>45109033
Well, his frame of reference was heavily grounded in the medieval, and his style was pretty much *the* style when everything began.

I prefer the way things are now, but I get it, y'know?

>>45113836
Bump

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>>45102138

Lets get rid of this worthless rock

>>45116894

ISIS actually does want to destroy it. It's been done in the past.

>>45114283
How can a chaotic behavior and a clear goal coexist though?

>>45117271

Who said anybody would have a clear goal in mind? The goals would probably be more like general feelings.

>>45100365
Maybe I'm the only one but for me "evil" means aggressive while "good" is deffensive. Example: if you start a war you are evil, and whoever you attack is good.

While "lawful" means "that obeys laws" whichever they are, even if they are evil. "Chaotic" means that follows no orders.

So for me, they are lawful evil.

>>45119154

That is idiotic, sorry.