MTG Modern General

>>45087190
I expect dank memes and nothing less.
>what would surprise you?
If modern somehow isn't fucking garbage now

>>45087190
>What do you expect to see?
tron vs aggro, I hope you like your Tron vs aggro because we are 100% Tron vs aggro all the time.

>What would surprise you?
A viable Control deck, reasonable prices.

>>45087190
>what do you expect to see?
A top 8 full of "diversity": affinity, burn, infect, merfolk, elves, ad nauseam

>what would surprise you?
URx decks in the top8 apart from delver

>expect
Tron or two without Emrakul and 2-3 spellskites mb, loads of braindead burn, some memedrazi, maybe Ad Nauseam or similar solitaire combo
>surprise
Lantern Control takes the whole thing after dodging burn altogether.

>>45087190
>What do you expect to see?
goldfishing
>What would surprise you?
interaction

>>45087190
>What do you expect to see?

80% caveman aggro and 20% Tron

>What would surprise you?

Any combo list doing well.

>What would cause your brain to fucking explode?

Any control list at all showing up

>>45087209
You know, I'm honestly confused. If you play standard, casual is garbage. If you play modern, standard is garbage. But now modern is garbage now? Is legacy the "non-garbage" option here? Or is just Magic in general doomed to garbagedom?

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>What do you expect to see?
few memetwin decks with kiki
lot of affinity and tron
lot of forced eldrazi in every deck

>What would surprise you?
any control
any combo
any basic land
anything fun ever

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>>45087190
Expecting:
Neckbeards, burn, affinity, infect.

Suprised:
If a lady won the tournament.

Wishes:
Troll worship wins the all thing.

>>45087837
Modern was pretty fine by me for awhile but the Twin ban just kinda tells me Wizards doesn't know what the fuck they doing. It was one of the only fair interactive decks. In addition they are scared as fuck to unban anything even though it's extremely likely that it wouldn't affect anything.

Legacy is in a better place. Decks are interactive and there is some good diversity between aggro, combo, and control (2 of those barely exist in modern). Also most importantly it's not on the pro-tour so WotC doesn't have to barge in the door and fuck up the format by doing something stupid like banning force of will.

>>45087858

most of all i want to see mono colored controls with basic lands

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wizards are like "we want to make a good story bla bla planeswalkers bla bla" and all we get is put the best creature you can every turn meme meta

>>45087899
>Twin
>fair
Stop talking about shit you don't understand.

>>45087190
>What do you expect to see?
The same decks as always just no Twin.

>What would surprise you?
Eldrazi making it to top8

Mistakenly posted in earlier thread:
Has anyone tried Coalition Victory Control? That seems to be an on-the-spot win.
You need Prismatic Omen, Fist of Suns, and that Golem that has all colors or a Progenitus.

>>45087939
twin was fair,every deck is fair because everyone can play the same cards,unban everything and let people play 1 tournament and see what happens,the only thing i can see is a interesting tournament not just turning creatures sideways

>>45087939
How wasn't it fair?

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Make this tier 1.

Turn 5 infinite damage and life gain.

+ stuffy doll

>>45087837
The worst thing that can happen to any format is wizards caring about it. The healthiest formats are ones where they ignore

>>45087997
We've already talked about this, anon.

>>45087997
>tier 1
That's a lot of cards to ban...

>>45088091
we have? archive plox

I fully expect an Eldrazi list featuring no Processors to do well. Similar to Jordan Boisvert's list.

Honestly, Urborg is about to rise even higher. I would snatch a few before it's too late, but my store is out of stock. Buylist is pretty high, too.

>>45088131
why do you think so ?
i might get one today at fnm

>>45088068
This

They care about standard a lot so now it's hitting each other with wet noodles. I mean fuck lightning strike was "too good" for standard.

Putting Modern on the pro tour is a death sentence.

>>45088142
Thought-Nazi is a crazy card in this deck. The one flaw the Eldrazi deck has is its overreliance on bad cards to make ok cards work. Once you go full goodstuff, you have a great deck.

It is also the current fair deck of choice. Urborg, Eye and Temple are all musts and the latter two already spiked high enough. Urborg still has potential to go bigger.

>>45087899
But I assume legacy is even pricier than modern is?

>>45087997
>Turn 5
You're a turn too late, anon.

>>45088189
Limited is fucking shit because they dumbed it down so much. Time spiral limited or original mm limited showed how great it can be. Compair it to khans/fate/khans garbage

Again, because wizards cares too much about it

>>45088334
It is pricier in general but honestly not by that much anymore

>>45088334
Tier 1 legacy is most expensive but modern decks can be significantly more expensive than legacy decks.
Modern jund is more expensive than say 4 horsemen, belcher, storm

I've been playing a lot of aura hexproof lately and it's been absolutely shitting on everything. Regular turn 4 kills and easily out races burn even without lifelink.

My only concern is lily, but I figure sideboarding out spirit dancers and putting in more hexproof would help.

Seal of primordium for chalice in sideboard and run 3 suppression bonds mainboard

>>45087190
>what do you expect
Tron vs aggro vs linear combo. Maybe ascendancy combo will be good as tron is a bye for it.

>What would surprise you?
If wizard's realized their mistake and emergency unbanned twin after the pro tour.

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You scrubs will eat shit from red the greatest color!
Everyone is forgetting thy one that will replace goblin guide when he sees the bannammer.

Hoarde it while it's low!!

>>45087190
>What do you expect to see?
R/G Tron
>What would surprise you?
Literally anything else.

turn 3 wurmcoil fucks any aggro deck, turn 3 karn fucks any midrange deck, plus 8-12 pyroclasms to ensure that nothing touches karn before restarting the game. Getting the turn 3 tron set is virtually free, and when they're on the play it's faster than any possible hatecard save ghost quarter, which most decks can't afford to run.

>>45088729
This. All this. This anon with this

Will ascendancy combo rise out of tier 3 in this post twin meta?

>>45089041
Yes :) it will rise in rank to tier 4

>>45089041
Why would it?

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>>45087997
so it's Lucky Charms with 8 cards instead of 3 or 4?

you are fucking stupid.

>>45089188

Cause it can be shut down with 2 cards. Chalice and Red Eidolon

Is ad nauseam the most resilient combo in modern?

>>45089612
At this point, sure.

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>>45089345
properly built ascendancy combo will wish for abrupt decay out of the board to deal with either of these cards.

it's like you've never actually played against a competent fatestitcher ascendancy pilot.

>>45089297
So how does this work? I think I'm missing the big combo here.

>>45090156
I think there is no combo, and it's just a bunch of decent cards slammed together like what a true
memer would do

>>45089297
1/10, no Rev for 15 or pumas, apply yourself next time

>>45090156
Boros Reckoner in play.

Cast Boros Charm for Indestructible.
Cast Azorius Charm for Lifelink.
Cast Izzet Charm for Shock the Reckoner.
Trigger Reckoner, target itself.
Infinite life.

It's shit.

>>45090156
Boros Charm makes the Reckoner indestructable, Azorius Charm gives him lifelink. Shock him with Izzet Charm and keep redirecting the damage to himself for infinite life.

Question : Can I discard a card in response to me discarding it.

Example : I have Pack Rat on the table, Raven's Crime in the yard and a single Swamp in hand.
Can I, in response to me discarding the Swamp to retrace Raven's Crime, Discard the Swamp to Pack Rat and still have both effects trigger ?

>>45090156
Boros Charm makes Boros Reckoner Indestructible.
Azorius Charm gives Boros Reckoner Lifelink.
Izzet Charm deals 2 damage to your Indestructible Lifelinked Boros Reckoner, Boros Reckoner triggers, targets itself, deals 2 damage to itself, you gain 2 life, triggers, targets itself, you gain 2 life, repeating until you have an arbitrarily high lifetotal, then it deals damage to something else and the cycle ends.

You don't even have to use Izzet Charm. You can use Boros and Azorius as a combat trick if they declare blocks with a creature that has 1 or greater power.

>>45089860
>>45089345
To be fair burn is a horrendous matchup for the deck. Eidolon is a huge problem. Chalice is a joke though. Comboing out through it is not even that hard, and you can just wish for abrupt decay. Combo-control version has an easier time vs Eidolon but a worse time vs chalice. Both can beat either though.

>>45090271
No

>>45090271
No. You're paying a cost for an effect. You can't cast Lava Spike and use that same red mana for a Lightning Bolt in response, same thing applies here.

>>45087997
Go away Saffron. This deck clearly doesn't work and you proved it yourself.

I expect to see Storm played by the Channel Fireball Pantheon guys.

It would surprise me to see anything other than Burn, Tron, Affinity, BGx, and shitty sub-par commentary/coverage.

>>45090309
Oh, I see.
Thanks for the tip.

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Does this kill the Tron?

>>45090255
>>45090272
>>45090265
>>45090265
Oh, I got it now. Seems like a pretty fun combo to pull off.

>>45090427
No, they can still pound your bootyhole with Karn, Ugin, and Eldrazi.

>>45090427
wow you are able to destroy their 1 mana artifacts with 2 mana spells? what a disaster for them

>>45090499
>>45090515
wat do

>>45090595
Outspeed them

>>45090595
Play burn, beat everyone.

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Who /readytomeme/ here?

>>45090689
So this is the new list without processors?
4 Thought knot
4 Mimic
4 Reality Smasher
I guess you can cut the relic out too

>>45087190
Id be surprised if Tron or Eldrazi won. I think it's just going to be more aggro

>>45090371
BGx won't be there.
Nobody wants to lose that badly

>>45090689
I'm still gonna play Wasteland Strangler, Relic and oblivion sower with the new guys
Its pretty easy to process if you have surgical extraction also

>>45091301
Strangler is so much weaker than TKS.
There's basically no reason whatsoever to run processor builds anymore

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>>45090427
No, this kills the tron.

>>45091343
oblivion sower's still perfectly fine

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>>45091343
I wanna run tks, smasher, strangler and bearer of silence
I like the thought of cheap removal that are dudes
tks exiles, you can play strangler right after, kill thier dude, get a 3/2 for like 2 mana

>>45091418
If you want to ramp, sure
But there's no reason when you could be swinging for 18 damage on turn 3 instead

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>>45091447
Then what about conduit of ruin?
Your creatures become cheaper and you get ulamog

>>45091493
I like him a lot more than sower for exactly the reasons you listed.

>>45090689
>this and tron
>suddenly Ghost Quarter is no2 format staple behind LB

people are shitting their pants so hard

we will see so many fucking Ghost Quarters maindeck next PT

For the heck of it, I looked up all keyword mechanics that always involved +1/+1 counters. Here they are.

Amplify (Onslaught Block)
Modular (Mirrodin Block)
Bloodthirst (Ravnica: City of Guilds Block)
Graft (Ravnica: City of Guilds Block)
Reinforce (Lorwyn-Shadowmoor Block)
Devour (Shards of Alara Block)
Undying (Innistrad Block)
Unleash (Return to Ravnica Block)
Scavenge (Return to Ravnica Block)
Evolve (Return to Ravnica Block)
Monstrosity (Theros Block)
Tribute (Theros Block)
Outlast (Khans of Tarkir Block)
Bolster (Khans of Tarkir Block)
Renown (Magic Origins)
Awaken (Battle for Zendikar Block)
Support (Battle for Zendikar Block)

>what do I expect to see
Tron and a bunch of aggro decks playing chicken with how big they can go without losing to tron.
>what do I want to see
Some busted new secret combo tech.
Storm putting up a decent posting.
>what would surprise me
A fun modern format.

>all of those counters in the recent blocks

Kill me

>>45091648
Post this to MaRo's tumblr and watch him squirm.

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>>45091720

>>45091720
>>45091648
Did he get assmad about +1/+1 counters?

>>45091648
>3 in RtR alone

I noticed that my favorite blocks do not appear on this list.

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>>45091343
>There's basically no reason whatsoever to run processor builds anymore.

This pleases me.

I have an idea that very well could be one of the worst ideas ever. What if we had 2 different modern formats? One like it is now, and one that has rotation or only goes back a certain number of sets.

>>45091869
Why do they always use the wording
>he or she

Couldn't they just say they, or that player

>>45091882
It was called extended anon

>>45091950
It's internal templating. Also, there's only two genders :)

>>45091950
Rosewater gave some very convoluted reason for it on his blog, pretty much what >>45091965 said.

>>45089612
i don't think it could resist a ban

>>45090617
>>45090623
okay

4 Spark Elemental
2 Frenzied Goblin
4 Hellspark Elemental
3 Foundry Street Denizen
1 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
16 Mountain
3 Forest
1 Cinder Glade
1 Titan Strength
1 Giant Growth
2 Gruul Charm
1 Spite of Mogis
1 Hammerhand
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Flame Javelin
3 Searing Blood
4 Burst Lightning
4 Searing Spear
SB
3 Ash Zealot
2 Ghor-Glan Rampager
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Destructive Revelry
1 Phytoburst
1 Madcap SKills
1 Skarrg Guildmage
1 Ball Lightning

How's this looking so far? I'm probably going to end up swapping the creature buffs for Searing Blazes. I have no idea how to sideboard.

>>45091648
They're all out of ideas, aren't they?

>>45092082
You clearly don't play modern. Why do you care how you beat Tron?

>>45092082

Nice meme, needs Vexing Devil though.

>>45091648
>One each in Onslaught and Mirrodin
>Two in Ravnica
>One each in Lorwyn, Shards, and Innistrad
>Three in RtR
>Two in every block since
>Even the two-set block
Awaken was kind of new and different, but I feel like they've definitely been phoning their mechanical designs in since RtR and this kind of confirms it.

>>45091669
>Tron and a bunch of aggro decks playing chicken with how big they can go without losing to tron.
This is precisely what I expect as well, and the answer is probably "not very big".

>>45092130
what makes you say that?

>>45091648
To expand on this, I left out Sunburst (Mirrodin Block) because every instance of Sunburst could not result in +1/+1 counters. Some resulted in charge counters. I left out Heroic (Theros Block) because it's an ability word, not a keyword. But so many instances of Heroic involved +1/+1 counters that I have to mention it here. I left out Megamorph (Khans of Tarkir Block) because it's way too similar to Morph to count as a separate mechanic.

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How would /tg/ change this?

>>45092641
How many of these decks require goyfs, and how many of these require Snapcaster?

>>45092641
ban everything that isnt interactive and fair

>>45092641
>fair - unfair
had a laugh

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>>45092641
blank template

build me a meme /tg/

>>45092641
Move boggles down to fair and raise infect up to where boggles is.

>>45092757
Put U-Tron and Skred on it

>>45092783
Boggles is more fair, but I would say it's also more linear.

>>45092641
remove twin and amulet bloom

Will there be spoilers for SoI?

>>45092918
What do you mean? They're going to reveal cards before release like every set.

>>45092810
Now that I think about it, you're right. Infect is marginally more interactive.

>>45092934
I mean at the pro tour.

So /tg/, why aren't you playing one of the best spot removal spells in an aggressive metagame?

Its Condemn

>>45093048
Because now I can't remove non-attacking problems like Grim Lavamancer, Dark Confidant, Kiki-Jiki, etc.

>>45093109
You play condemn alongside your path to exiles anon

>>45093048
I play esper with 4 paths. The extra land doesn't matter on turn 9

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>>45092918
>>45092934
>>45092974
Spoilers don't happen anymore as punishment for the leak ;_;

>>45092802
Skred is completely fair and interactive

>>45093128
This is my take on Esper

http://deckstats.net/deck-8960396-fbcc68a22d19a566bc1523fc78a07925.html

>>45093184
It's fair because it's bad.

>>45092641
Add ad nauseam combo the chart. Probably very far in unfair and linear.

>>45093216
It's really not though. It's a solid deck and only bad players or those who haven't played it themselves would say otherwise.

It's not pick up and play easy

>>45093125
Conditional removal, worse than bolt.

>>45093301
Bolt can't kill zombie fish

>>45093352
No but there's plenty of removal that can. Doomblade, or victim of the night to name a few

>>45093632
>Doom Blade
>on Gurmag

>>45093632
Read doom blade

>>45093632
Need to be more subtle bruh.

>>45093632

Neither of those work on gurmag

>>45093632

>Want to kill Black Zombie creature
>Names removal that can't remove black and can't remove zombies

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Am I going to regret not buying a playset of these while they're only 12-13 bucks

>>45093745
I don't know why they're that high to be honest, the print run for OGW huge and they're only rares

>>45093352
Bolt can kill mana dorks, kiki-jiki, anafenza, fauna shaman and other combo piece creatures. You can kill. Creatures the turn they come into play rather than waiting a turn. They get to wait until they have countermagic up, you have to waste mana leaving it up, you can't use it to push damage through.

>>45093668
>>45093684
>>45093718
>>45093720
I remember the days when newfags lurked more and didn't bite every piece of bait that floated their way

>>45092641
Affinity and twin need their y-axis swapped

Building Naya Zoo on a budget. Would it be I correct to assume Naya Panorama isn't worth running, given that most of what I'm going to be running outside of Flinthoof Boar doesn't use generic mana?

>>45092641
>tfw almost done building Grishoalbrand
Can't wait to play Solitaire in front of all those mouth breathing Tron players.

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>yfw a niche card you been meaning to pick up happens to be in a sideboard and gets bought out with a 200% price increase even though it had no significant play.

>>45093884
Yeah man, your deck is so much depper

>>45093745

TFW got my playset at prerelease for 3$ each.

Thanks casuals

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Ok guys let's do this right. Where should your deck be and why? Why is your deck shit? I'll start taking suggestions.

>>45093994
i'll take grishoalbrand at A1

>>45093994
Ad nauseam at A1. Instant speed combo is hilarious and catches so many people off guard despite not being as fast as other combos. Being extremely linear is self explanatory, you don't care what your opponent is doing thanks to cards like angel's grace and phyrexian unlife which act as effective time walks against most decks when they aren't being used as combo pieces.

>>45093994
>fair
>unfair
>interactive
Nobody here knows what these words mean

My deck takes all the skill, has crazy hard decision trees and your deck is braindead and unfair

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So whats the Eldrazi deck lists looking like now with the addition of OGW? Anybody got any links? I'm hearing processor is dead.

>>45093895
I've been rocking Consume the Meek in my sbs since forever. It'd be really weird if one person did well with it and it suddenly became expensive.

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>>45093994
Tron sits roughly where its placed on the original chart. The opening plays are a linear march to assemble tron but there is a modest amount of interaction in Pyroclasm and Oblivion Stone. Once the engine is online, there is a decent amount of interaction with the board and your opponents hand.

Ramping out Karn and friends is low on the fair scale.

>>45093994
stompy at A7

>>45094202
So about F3.

Best sideboard cards against Eldrazi deck?

Should I build Naya or Mardu burn?

>>45094290
Naya hands down. I've been blown out too many times to recommend another build. That shit works.

>>45094287
Doom Blade, funnily enough

Would chalice affinity be a good place to start modern? I like how affinity works but the sheer ammount of hate scares me.

>>45094170
Anybody?

>>45094387
Affinity has been Tier 1 since the beginning of the format. Man up and fight through the hate.

>>45094424
I mean if you don't suck at affinity, you should have a dude equipped with plating threatening lethal before any kind of hate comes down anyway.

>>45094170
>>45094413

Wait a week for the PT.

It's honestly too early to say anything for sure right now, and the people who have good info is keeping it close to their chest.

>>45094116

Fair - shit like junk or jund, you tap lands to get normal amount of mana

Unfair - T3 karn/T2 infect win and alike.

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The chart so far

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I'd like to get back into collecting MtG cards again. Is there going to be any big releases (like core sets) soon? New editions to look out for?

>>45094554
Also, does a cutout of one of the decks staple cards make the deck identifiable enough? Or should I put the name below it.

>>45094554
>>45094581
Well I can't tell what the deck in the lower left corner is supposed to be

>>45094578
I believe there are no more core sets. The newest set released was OGW, or Oath of the Gatewatch.

The next set is SOI, or Shadows over Innistrad.

There are rumors of an eternal masters supplemental release - although it's 100% unconfirmed.

>>45094554
I'm not sure where I'd put "extra turns" I wanna say it's interactive but I don't know about fair...

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>>45094554
Fucking dumb goy.

>>45094591
stompy

>>45094591
Yeah I figured as much, I couldn't either. It's mono-green stompy.

>>45094646
The only interaction is has is in terms of counterspells, but only so it can get to play solitaire.

>>45094581
Looks good man. The pics work for me but it might still be a good idea to identify them a bit more.

meant
>>45094726
for
>>45094643

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>>45094554

>>45094857
I guess it might be helpful to define the origin so we all have a frame of reference. So /tg/ what's the deck that's just unfair enough and just interactive enough to be the origin of this chart?

>>45094857
tfw storm isnt "linear" or "interactive", its a skill intensive combo deck.

>>45094941
Burn?

>>45094941
Twin?

>>45094116
Fairness is based around how much a deck exploits interactions that were not necessarily intended. For example, when Groundswell was printed, I doubt the designers considered infect. Likewise, when Phyrexian Unlife was designed, the intent didn't consider Ad Nauseum. When the Tron lands were printed, the likes of Karn didn't exist.

On the other hand, when Goblin Guide was printed, it obvious as to what it's purpose would be.

As for interactivity, decks that eschew creatures to nerf removal are less interactive. Decks that aren't particularly concerned with the opponent's gameplan because they have a very linear gameplan are less interactive.

That's why Bloom Titan was considered both unfair and not interactive. It sought to abuse certain interactions and it didn't really care what the opponent was doing. Game were fairly linear and predictable.

OTOH, something like Jund is more about using efficient cards than exploiting card interactions. And it's interactive because it's decision trees are based very much on what the opponent is doing.

>>45094941
>>45094978
I second burn. Its linear as fuck though.

>>45094941
It might be a good idea to identify the metrics by which we define these perimeters.

>>45089860
If it doesn't run at least 2 sprout swarms in the 75 you can take your lame shit and go to weenie hut jr

>>45091415
It kills tron yes, BUT you have to find a way to slam it turn 2, or be able to answer whatever they cast the turn before your crumble - which isn't always easy. And if they're playing warping wail, you're fucked.

>>45095025
True, but there's a few creatures that you might Bolt, like Scavenging Ooze

>>45095025
Yeah, I feel burn far too linear to be the origin.

>>45094978
burn is too interactive, and it can on ocassion, draw so well as to be construed as unfair.
>>45094979
technically not a deck anymore, but the fact that it can just randomly win on turn 4 makes it unfair.

>>45094554
Where would Eldrazi lie on the chart?

>>45095025
I'd be more satisfied if jund or junk was at the origin. A midrange deck is usually not unfair and often its game plan is linear, but it also has to interact with what the opponent is doing.

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Hey MTG.
Would you buy this?
I'm not sure anymore...

>>45095128
>Broken sol lands that only apply to it
>land that tutors (so it's essentially a free tutor)
>turn 4 10/10 that exiles on cast
yeah that ain't fair at all. Its probably more unfair than tron but more linear.

>>45095154
Nope, I wouldn't.

>>45092641

>Elves
>Fair

That deck is borderline combo deck, just mirror its position in the X axis

>>45095128
I'm gonna guess about here or here. That's the non-processor build by the way.

>>45095154
No because those are blatantly fakes and if someone was to do that to the real cards, they'd be killed on sight.

>>45095154
They stuck on or painted on ?

>>45095154
>$12k
>damaged power
1/10 made me laugh.

I have 2 NM/M Inkmoth Nexuses I want to sell. SCG is out of stock and doesn't update their price until they restock. How much should I be charging? My local BST group does 'SCG 1:1', but doesn't acount for conversion rate which is approx 1:1.5.

>>45095132
GBx is highly fair and interactive. Nearly every decision you make involves what your opponent is doing

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>>45095179
whoops

All i want is for good old golgari grave troll to crush someone in the feature match area during the pro tour

>>45095154
HA HA FUCK NO

>>45095167
Tron has those last 2, but also fucking Ugin

>>45095199
UWR midrange would be in the fair and interactive quadrant and as a bonus it's also fun

>>45095184
Painted on.

>>45094606
>>45094578
so are sets smaller in their releases nowadays?

>>45095010
>Karn
You think they didn't know what they were doing when they made him cost 7?

>>45095257
maybe for like $12 to give to a guy i play with who hates the whole pony thing

Eldrazi at ~D2

>>45095154
>tfw thats one of my lgs

I need to verify this bullshit

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Did I inadvertently inherit this project? I don't have enough time to properly fill this out!

>>45095239
So about here?

>>45094857
"linear/interactive" isn't really the right scale, should be more like "linear/varying", for decks that can do a few things at once, for which skill and practice are required to execute properly. Amulet Bloom springs to mind as a deck that's very hard to play correctly, and can win in one of several ways, despite being hilariously unfair.

>>45095372
I'm still here

>>45095339
Not even close.

>>45095383
we could just add a z axis for "(in)consistency"

>>45095105
>technically not a deck anymore, but the fact that it can just randomly win on turn 4 makes it unfair.
This is NOT what unfair means, unfair is not "I don't like this deck"

>>45095372
yeah , thats good , too bad its not even tier 1.5 anymore

Then again the lack of good non-delver control lists are the reason (i think) that modern is such a terrible format idea , sideboards with 15 cards of hate doesn't lead to a healthy format and there no deck to keep them in check , no more cheeky 1 of tech pieces in modern decks these days , they should just bring back extended after the new set structure is prevalent

>>45094554
>>45094857
Put in Elves at B6

>>45095426
You could, sure, but that's not my point. "Fairness" is basically a measure of how much your opponent can do to stop you from winning, which is the exact definition of interactivity.
If anything, your axes would best represent every deck through "linear/nonlinear" and "interactive/uninteractive"

>>45095389
How can I drop you a psd for the sake of consistency?

>>45095517
what is "unfair" then? I get that it isn't "win on turn 2" that's probably what unfair is but winning a turn later isn't exactly "fair"

>>45095530
>sideboards with 15 cards of hate doesn't lead to a healthy format and there no deck to keep them in check
Call him.
Drive him from the abyss.
Raise your arm and yell proudly.
Dredge is the hero memedern needs.

>>45095154
Ehh. I won't pay that much just to have my power in black-border. If it were at, say, $8000, I'd do it.

>>45095154
I would offer $20 for the set because they're not legal for tournament play.

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Added infect, UWx control and eldrazi.
>>45095587
I was thinking the same thing, it would be horrible if the font size/colors got messed up. Any ideas?

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>>45092757
>le meme builder
Fair/Unfair rating was based on "Was the deck using cards designed how they were all intended?"
Interactive/Linear rating was based on "How much do I care about what my opponent is doing?"
All placements are approximate with respect to the axes and absolute compared to other data points.

meme my shit, bro.

>>45087899
>twin
>fair
>twin
>interactive
what the fuck am I reading

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>>45095661
Lemme sign up for mediafire and I'll drop a link in a bit.

>>45095707
Why the fuck is B/W Eldrazi under "fair"? Shit's not fair, yo

>>45095661

https://www.mediafire.com/?1hfb6c5a2pkdd45

>>45094581
Yea its fine for the decks on the list so far. It might be harder for fairer midrange decks though without an iconic card that doesn't also exist in other decks.

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Everyone excited for Shadows over Innistrad?

>>45095804
Why is it not fair? It play creatures and attack with them, no infinite combos and doesn't cheat anything into play.
If it wasn't for it's fancy manabase it would be as fair as Junk/jund, but it's still no Tron lands that's for sure.

>go to sell my jaces because ogw standard looks gay af
>thinking scapeshift because its the closest thing to a creatureless control deck inb4 lanternfags
>scapeshifts are 50 bucks
what do with ~200 bucks and playsets of khans fetches

>>45095804
Thy're using cheap cards to exile in the early game to feed their midgame processors, before dropping big bombs late. The cards are being used almost exactly as intended, (the only notable exception being relic) so it's labeled "fair" for the purposes of the chart.

>>45095804
It's literally attacking with creatures paid for with mana acquired from lands that were played once a turn in regular fashion

Just because the creatures are stupidly large doesn't make it unfair. Goyf is fair no matter how stupid.

>>45095709
see this is why these terms are being misused.
On all these graphs, "linear/interactive" is a scale of how much that deck interacts with the opponent's, and "fair/unfair" is more or less a measure of how much a potential opponent could disrupt that deck. The terms are stupid and could easily be more descriptive terms.

Linear/interactING makes more sense, since interactive actually means "allowing a TWO-WAY interaction"
"Fair/unfair" is subjective, but something like "easy to disrupt/difficult to disrupt" not only gets the point across but does so in a way that forgoes these arguments about subjective definitions.

>>45095896
The interaction between eye/temples is inherently unfair, you're almost "cheating" your creatures out. It's abusing lands, much like tron, and is casting huge threats many turns before they "fairly" should be able to.

>>45095872
Unless we get some crazy Flashback shenanigans, not really.
While I love the idea of Suicide Black as a concept, this is too weak for non-rotating formats and I don't expect WotC to print enough other playable stuff to make it considerable for standard.
Still a bomb for Limited.

>>45095566
See , i would always look at it slightly differently , a deck is "fair" when it is relatively easy to interact with , for example a deck with 20 lands and 40 bears is fair but not interactive as it has no way of dealing with other decks

Slightly similar would be zoo , which just consists of lazily playing the best creatures on curve and hopefully (albeit consistently) winning (i hate zoo decks), it does run lightning bolts and paths that give it that element of interactivity but its alot less interactive than say an old teachings control deck , which was all interactivity but little "fairness" in how it went about it , not all decks get the opportunity to tutor for an answer at will with flashback #

But those decks are long dead since modern is such an aggressive and "practically solved" format now

>>45095872
yeah because emrakul fucking quit zendikar to fuck sorin's shit up after he stopped giving a fuck, forcing him to give a fuck

>>45095872
I really want Madness to come back, It's something I wanted to play way back.

>>45095745
Ascendancy combo at C3. Has some interaction with glittering wish but beyond that it just tries to combo off. Can win on turn 2 although this is inconsistent. What really makes it unfair is the fact that it takes 10-15 minutes to combo off if you don't concede (which you won't want to because the combo doesn't always work).

>>45095966
Which is why it's at the border of fair and unfair, but it really shouldn't cross that border into the unfair decks untill those land combos gets better.
It's still a mostly fair midrange deck with some decent ramp. Tron has crossed the line where its ramp is fast enough to be considered unfair.

>>45095936
But that's not even what fair means

The best description of fair is to image MaRo, Forsythe and Nagle standing in a half circle behind you while you play against a player who's brought a tier 3 aggro to his first modern event. The dirtier a look they give you when your win condition is unveiled, the less fair your deck probably is.

>>45087190
I'm legitimately excited to see just how shit Modern will be at the PT. Maybe this was Wizards' plan all along; turn Modern into a trainwreck that no one can turn their eyes away from.

>>45095183

>No because those are blatantly fakes and if someone was to do that to the real cards, they'd be killed on sight.

hhhehehehehe

>>45096067
Then most combo decks would be A1 rather than just combos that do really unfair things and tron would be as fair as jund and UWR control.

>>45087939
Twin was the fairest deck in Modern because it kept the unfair decks in check. It actively made Modern a better place. Twin LITERALLY died for our sins.

>>45095607
I'm actually relying on the pros to not let me down for the millionth time in a row and bring golgari grave troll to the forefront of the modern metagame

>>45095971
What about a deck like ad nauseam where its only forms of "interaction" are meant to prevent any interaction at all, (angel's grace, phyrexian unlife, pacts of negation, sideboard ethereal hazes.)

>>45096117
Yeah I know but I can't think of a better way to explain "the more your deck looks like 'normal' magic the fairer it is" to the people who for whatever reason fail to get it.

>>45096118
you seem to be confusing fair with interactive.

>>45096141
Affinity and Burn can and will be bringing 4 copies of Rest in Peace to the PT. Like, sideboards are so useless at this point that you might as well. What, Firewalkers/Dragon's Claws for Burn? Stony Silence for Affinity? Spellskite for everything else? There's basically nothing more you need in Modern.

>>45096141
>Pro player wins pro tour with based jew slayer dredge
>Maro has a fucking aneurysm
>Magic is saved

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>>45096001
And with that, I must leave. I hope this chart gets filled out more. Props to anon for starting this.

Updated psd:
https://www.mediafire.com/?1hfb6c5a2pkdd45

>>45096175
That's more interactive than a deck without those sort of cards, like belcher.

Belcher is probably the best example of a fully uninteractive deck. It just wants to do its thing without caring about what you play.

Are oath of gatewatch cards modern legal yet?

>>45095991
>forcing him to give a fuck
>Emrakulio fucks up Innistrad
>Sorin goes fucking nuclear
>Sorin, the vindicator 2WBR
>plus +1 is vindicate

>>45096234
>Tron
>Interactive

Why? Because you have to look at your opponent's board to see how big Ugin's -X has to be? Fuck off is Tron interactive; it literally aims to jam a turn 3 Karn and ride it to victory.

>>45096258
They've been legal for a week now

>>45096118
nah , i agree that twin did keep other decks in check but i believe it also put a really low ceiling on the format and encouraged a "can't beat twin , why would i play it" kind of attitude , it was good because of other unfair decks will probably run rampant without it threatening them but that doesn't make it fair

Not all unfair decks make their respective formats worse though , they can open doorways to new ideas themselves, and by that i don't mean "im gonna put a playset of tarmogoyfs in my twin deck" kinda crap , that's just greed, but decks integrating core parts of other decks is what makes formats fun

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>>45095621

>they're not legal for tournament play.

They are though.

Unless the paint makes them noticeably heavy or thick they do not go against the rules of what is allowed for altered cards.

The names, manacost and text are clearly visible, the art is recognizable and they're not "offensive" in a way that Wizards cares about.

Pic related.

http://blogs.magicjudges.org/rulestips/2013/06/tournament-tuesday-card-alters-and-you/
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/articles/15307-alterations-guide

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>>45096262
>avacyn tries to do something
>she does nothing

>>45096282
Yeah Tron seems just barely on the interaction side of that axis. What does it have for interaction beyond walker abilities?

>>45096282
Can't allow hurt feelings to muddy what is meant to be objective categorization, anon.

If you want to create a graph detailing how butthurt decks make you, be my guest.

>>45096367
Oblivion stones, pyroclasms, and ulamog.

>>45096203
It seems like alot of the pro's i've paid any attention too are most worried about running into tron, burn ........ and worship , if you are worried about that then suffice to say there is not alot to be threatened by, in a variety sense anyway , some poor schmuck is gonna have a playoff run that involves only playing tron or only playing burn decks though i bet , and it'll probably be sam black he tends to get those kinda runs

>>45096313
by that logic, both the lotus and the mox pearl are unplayable. The mox emeral might also be not legal. In any case the resale on this is so much worse because all alters ,must be listed as "damaged". Finally you can't tell the thickness of the pain on the cards from this picture but other images of these cards exists and it sure looks thick.

>>45096367

See >>45094202

>>45096412
I suppose that's not too shabby.

Still, given how ridiculously resistant their gameplan is to opposing interaction (play blood moon/crumple or fuck off) I want to say that they're still closer to the axis than they are there.

>>45096469
On second thought I guess it only means anything relative to what's around it so whatever.

>>45096214
Yeah , I get that Maro is basically the face of magic and he has designed some of the most thematic blocks , but when he voices his opinions in interviews and the god forsaken land of his blog , he just sounds a moron or like he thinks everyone playing magic now is a moron saying things like "X would have been too good" or "X is way too complex for new players"

When in reality the only kind of complex things we run into are Trinispheres and Chains of Mephistopheles (which isnt even difficult , just that whoever typed out the text AND errata was drunk) , and i also feel that trample is basically the hardest mechanic in the game , it interacts with some things in unintuitive ways

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I'm planning to build my first Modern deck.
I want to win sometimes and I really like white creatures. Any tips? I'm thinking on making Abzan Company so that I can fetch some cards from Duel Decks.

>>45096314
>Gets tentacled raped

>>45096685
soul sisters is always the go-to white deck. You could also try white weenie but I don't think there's a real "list" for that one.

>>45096314
>avacyn tries to do something
she falls into a helvault again , this time with mad garruk

>>45096304
PVDDR nailed the problem in his recent article about the banning. In it, he compared the card Splinter Twin to Force of Will. You see, Force of Will, just like Splinter Twin, is a really really shit card. Like, having to ditch gas from your hand is a really bad thing, it's literally 2 for 1ing yourself, no one wants to do it. But you HAVE to do it to beat the unfair decks. Force of Will preys on unfair decks that rely too much on a single card to win, but loses to fair decks like BUG that don't really care about any individual card. In exactly the same manner, no one wants to run Splinter Twin because it's an enchantment aura. You literally risk being 2 for 1'd by playing it. First you have to run a shit creature, Deceiver Exarch, then you have to put an enchantment aura on it. Any resolved piece of removal ABRUPT DECAY kills this outright and effectively wins you the game on the spot. Just like how Force of Will works in legacy, Twin preys on the unfair decks by being able to hold them off via Remand/Mana Leak just long enough to vomit the combo onto the table, while losing to the fair decks such as Abzan/Jund. Admittedly this is mostly due to the existence of Abrupt Decay as no other fair decks really existed in Modern before the ban that don't still exist now, but you get the general idea.

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>>45096685

>>45096685
Play Death and Taxes. You can build mono White for cheap, but if you have the cash Wg is better.

>>45095293
I seriously doubt they were thinking about Modern.

>>45096792
She's not swinging it, she's leading a procession into or out the city and holding it aloft, probably shouting a rally cry. It'd be easier to hold it that way for that purpose.

I mean come on there's so much to bitch about in the last few sets, that's not really something bad.

>>45096067
That's actually not the worst yardstick. Casuals typically react to unfair decks as if you're cheating. The more mad they get, the higher the likelihood that you're playing an unfair deck.

>>45095293
>Think you they didn't know what they were doing when they made him cost 6? Tron mana is EXACTLY enough to cast Karn then cycle a star into Ancient Stirrings for a backup Karn!
Yeah how about fuck off. 7 mana is the point at which a card is considered a late game bomb, that's all.

>>45096941
That's not how you quote someone.

>>45096648
>he thinks everyone playing magic now is a moron
That's a lot of the landscape, though.

>>45097032
I miss being new to this site. 10 years goes by too fast.

>>45096933
>play against a casual
>play UG budget infect
>they freak out and have a temper tantrum because "there was nothing he could do to stop it and that it won too fast"
>play a much more casual UR Burning Vengeance deck
>they freak out and have a temper tantrum because it removed too many of his creatures and it made his removal cards useless
>play an extremely casual myr deck
>they freak out and have a temper tantrum because the deck is too consistent
I haven't even played anything genuinely unfair against them like GR tron or Ad nauseam. Casuals get mad at literally any deck that beats them before turn 10.

>>45097065
>I you miss being a faggot and I've been here for 9 years. That's EXACTLY how long this site has existed!

That's not how you fucking quote someone.

>>45097157
>I haven't even played anything genuinely unfair against them like GR tron or Ad nauseam. Casuals get mad at literally any deck that beats them before turn 10.
Not all casuals are quite that bad, but I get your point.

>>45095966
Yes, ramp is inherently broken. Always has been.
Nut up and throw down some Kodama's Reach

>>45097195
I wasn't quoting you, I was making a mockery of your point. It's like you think Wizards couldn't come to the conclusion that a powerful planeswalker should cost 7 mana through any other means than the Tron lands. Or should Karn have been some generic 3/4 mana walker that doesn't pass the Bolt test and is shit?

>>45096768
The force of will comparison is pretty spot on , if it wasnt in the format people would be getting beltchered and sneak/showed every other game

I wouldn't say it was AS necessary as force but twin did force (buhdumtiss) people to realise that when you need to play spot removal in basically all your decks, sometimes bolt just wont always get the job done ,even if you need to take the goodstuff down a notch.

By being in the format twin helped tune the decks that surrounded it making them more competitive (except tron , but tron is dumb) but many people feel that wizards just cut out a piece of the format , whereas I believe that other decks will hopefully flourish in its absence

So while i feel twins game plan is unfair , as personally even though i don't really like 2 card wins and i like the even less when one of the cards has flash, it was both unfair and healthy for the format , whether or not the impact it made on modern will last now that its gone has yet to be seen , but i personally hope that this isn't the pinnacle of the format and if it is , they need to bring back extended with semi-regular rotations and appropriate banned lists , as a side-note , unbans could work at that stage too (Looking at you sword of the meek).

>>45096768
And then he goes on to say ban something from all top decks. He has no clue what he's talking about

>>45096846
For fuck sakes, karn is in the art for the tower

>>45097387
At this point you pretty much have to ban something from all decks if you aren't going to unban Twin and a slew of other cards.

Is Maro legitimatley retarded?

>>45097407
It's almost as if there's some kind of connection between Urza and Karn.

>>45097439
That or soulless.

>>45097462
Almost as if karn's mana cost isn't coincidence and fits with the Urza lands

>>45097387
Personally i havent read this article but I assume it has the usual complaints and some barely related solutions to the original problem , "unban ancestral visions" or "more sideboard slots" and the like.

And here i am hoping i get to play sword of the meek in modern thopter funtimes with spy networks and stuff at some point before i lose interest in modern all together

>>45097321
>It's like you think Wizards couldn't come to the conclusion that a powerful planeswalker should cost 7 mana through any other means than the Tron lands

No, but they WERE aware of it. I would not be surprised if it was part of their criteria for his design.

>>45097490
Do I need to pull up every 7 mana colourless card printed after the Tron lands were printed? You have literally zero evidence to back up your entirely irrelevant claim. Like, dude no one gives a fuck either way. Just have your little headcanon and gasp in awe at how amazing Wizards are at design.

>>45097545
>being this buttmad over nothing

>>45097545
Why does this upset you so much?

Quick question for the two-headed giant format. If a spell effect says "each Creature you control" does that also count your partner's creatures?

>>45097589
no.

>>45097601
Thanks.

>>45097545
Okay, and Ugin totally isn't Urza and the 7's in his card doesn't display that.

>>45097625
>tfw urza's spark is part of karn, and so is venser's

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>>45097407
>For fuck sakes, karn is in the art for the tower
Yeah... I can see the artist request for that one:

>A tower with Karn nearby, because in 8 years we're going to print Karn as a planeswalker and give him a cc of 7.

>>45097680
Other way around dumb shit.
>Oh remember how karn was there and a modern deck plays Urza lands. Maybe we can tie them together.

Is it so farfetched to think they might have come up with a simple throwback and synergy?

>>45097053
But the morons are the people who pick up the game for a few months than lose interest and the ones he is doing the interview for , the people who watch them are people who are somewhat familiar with how that game works , and also bestow was one of the more complex abilities interactively that has come out in ages, and when he says stuff like "madness (or whatever else) wont be back, its too difficult for new players to understand" or some other nonsense it just feels disingenuous

>>45096439
Worse case scenario, a judge will make you a proxy

>tfw store meta hasn't changed

Only 1 guy played twin and he was awful anyway.
No new Tron players. Only the stinky 40 year old autist with void winnowers in the deck so he can say, can't even

>>45097793
Yeah , there's a guy in my lgs that thinks the "cant even" thing is the funniest think ever , when he said it once i may have smirked but now, it's grating on me man , its only been a week

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Again - supposed to be an objective graph of current modern decks. If anyone would like to call me a faggot and yell at me for why I misplaced their deck - please go ahead, I'm looking to improve based on feedback.

>Decks that should be added off the top of my head
>Burn, Affinity, Jund, Junk
Any suggestions?

>>45095367
Well, your lgs has at least one MAJOR faggot right there...
Who da fuck thought that was a good idea? Fuck! They better be fake

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>>45098085
>Control all alone in the interactive/fair quadrant.
I fight the good fight every Friday night.

>>45093824
Man naya panorama was considered shit for standard,why would you consider it when you can fetch+ shock?

>>45098184
I salute you.

Do you think Sphinx's Revelation is an appropriate icon for the deck? Or do you want something else?

>>45098184
I really like Yuuya Watanabes UW control list. Have you seen it? Any opinions on it? I was thinking of building it.

>>45098184
>4 Spell Snare
Jesus , your meta must be awful or there is 75 cards there and i guessed wrong also any man who runs cat sun's zenith is a champion in my books , you're a top bloke

>>45098085

Burn is somewhat interactive, but close to the middle, and also somewhat fair, but close to the middle

Affinity is unfair and linear, but close to the middle on the linear axis

June is interactive and fair like uw control

>>45088534
>>45088334
Legacy Burn is like 200 dollars cheaper than Modern burn

New bread.

>>45098400
>>45098400
>>45098400

I hope affinity does really poorly in the pro tour so it doesn't get banned.

Or they just ban Ravager so i don't have to buy it and the deck is still sorta functional

>>45098085
You spelled Ad Nauseam and Jeskai wrong.

>>45098184
How does this deck beat burn, affinity, zoo, infect?

>>45098085
How in the world is eldrazi less fair than Tron

>>45098432

Honestly he cranial plating is scarier to me

>>45098516

Spell snare the eidolons, ravagers, cranial plates, blighted agents

>>45098681
Have you ever had a thought-knot seer come in turn 2 against you?

Also unfair decks are decks that do more on a turn then is generally allowed. Ie, really fast ramp, cheating in creatures, storm, dredge. Unfair decks attempt to win before you can stabilize, and fair decks try to win by stabilizing and then winning. Because of this unfair decks tend to trade stability for power, and fair decks do the opposite.

>>45098259
Sphinx's Rev is definitely the best icon. It differentiates the deck frm UWx midrange and appears in the UW, UWR, and Esper control decks, unlike, say, Esper Charm. It should also be immediately recognizable to anybody who played during RTR Standard.

>>45098261
I've seen Yuuya's UW decks before. The more tap-out superfriends style control decks should be great now that Twin is gone and there's aggro everywhere. Tron will make you cry though.

>>45098294
Spell Snare is the best way to gain tempo against Modern's aggressive strategies, period. It has some dead matchups, but I would never run less than 3 in Esper.

>>45098918
Not him but you're delusional if you think thoughtseize on a stick turn 2 is unfair.

>>45093778
>I-i was only pretending to be retarded!

>>45096439
The original art on both the lotus and mox pearl are easily recognisable, what are you talking about? None of them even cover one word of the text.

>>45099793
What other 4/4 with an ability do you normally drop t2?