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Pathfinder General /pfg/
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Pathfinder General /pfg/

Why is Tears to Wine the best spell ever created?

Unified /pfg/ link repository: http://pastebin.com/53QiHfcU

Old Thread: >>45075729
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>>45084999
Because after I'm done crying I have something to drink to help forget, obviously.
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>>45084999
First for ENDLESS 9 and homebrew magic items.

Saif al-Shaqa
Price: 12,375 gp
Caster Level: 10
Aura: Faint Necromancy

Extending from the crossguard of this +1 Cruel Falchion with a wicked curve is a black blade inscribed with the words of an old Orcish battle prayer, disparaging the weakness of their enemies and praising the Prophet of the Black Sun. The jagged, blocky script of the prayer glows with a sick red hue, giving off light equivalent to a candle when drawn from its scabbard. On a successful hit, the target must make a Will Save with a DC that scales off the wielder’s Initiator Level and Initiation Modifier (10+1/2 IL + IM). Failing this save results in a Curse that lasts for 40 days and 40 nights, imposing a Strength Penalty of 1d4+1 for the Curse’s Duration. Those Cursed may end the effect prematurely by partaking in the heart-flesh of the one who inflicted it upon them, taking the courage of the warrior they have slain.
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Do unattended, nonmagic objects ever get a saving throw against effects targeting them?
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I've been considering switching from 4E to Pathfinder, what strengths does the system have over 4E in your opinion and what might I have a hard time adjusting to?
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/pfg/, in my autism I might have tried to make a primalist crossblooded spelleater destined abberant bloodrager
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>>45085049
No.
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>>45085050
Very little. Seriously, stick to 4e, it's an actually well-made game (past the early MMs).

Strengths: imbalance, sheer options, casters are OP as fuck.
Weaknesses: imbalance, sheer bloat, casters are OP as fuck.
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>>45085030
That Falchion will be excellent for anyone who wants to be a melee debuffer. If you can get shaken on you can throw sickened and any hit gets a chance for that curse.
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>>45085049
if the saving throw line has (object) in it, I believe?
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>>45085049
>>45085098
I'm an idiot, no they don't.
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>>45085019
Granting the Eiremians the ability to transfer negative energy with a touch seems like a logical ability they should get.

I notice that a big chunk of Ethumion racial features tends to radiate to their surroundings.
Contagious Enthusiasm, Minor Telekinesis, and Wellspring of Life prove that.

While by contrast, Eiremians racial features tend to draw inwards like an inner strength.
Empty Serenity, Solipsistic Endurance and Void Child are examples.

I just think an Eiremian who bottles up all that negative energy would be very unhealthy for them. They know its bad but they keep it because it keeps them calm and collected.
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>>45085089
But I've heard a few people say Pathfinder is a bit deeper, where 4E is meant to be more beginner friendly
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>>45085130
4e is a well-designed, functional dungeon crawling game. It's got a massive amount of options to use, and can easily be refluffed to fit a variety of genres, so long as combat is still a focus.

Pathfinder isn't really that deep. It's wide. You know how people complain about 4e classes supposedly playing the same because of how they use the same powers system?

Pathfinder is actually like that.

You have the casters: 9 tiers of spells, most of which are worthless, and many of which are overpowered. Minimal class features. Spells break the game for them though. Mostly plays the same, with some occasional differences in details, but not much appreciable difference in playstyle.

You have the noncasters: they move and full attack (effectively 1-4 basic attacks), or stand still and ranged full attack. That's about it; all their utility tends to come from either pretending to be a caster (skillmonkeys with Use Magic Device) or hitting things harder/faster. Very little utility or versatility in or out of combat, because skills get outpaced by spells quickly, then useless.

You have the few decently-balanced classes: 4-6 levels of spells, class features that actually do things, and tends to still spend some time basic attacking.

Combat is universally rocket tag, generally lasting 3-4 rounds at most (maybe 5 if things go wrong).

Despite this, it's fun if you bring in some of the good third-party options, or play with a good group. A good group makes anything fun, though; it's in spite of the system, not because of it.
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Don't hide it from me, /pfg/
Tell me about your suggestions and wishlists
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>>45085126
> I notice that a big chunk of Ethumion racial features tends to radiate to their surroundings.
> While by contrast, Eiremians racial features tend to draw inwards like an inner strength.

Well...yeah. That's what positive and negative energy /are/.

Positive energy is, at its heart /go/. Everything else it is draws back to its nature as the impelling and animating force. It's most famous as the fundament for life, but it's more accurately described as the foundation for /animacy/. Without positive energy, nothing could move, shed light, have color, experience vibrancy, or otherwise /be/.

Negative energy, on the other hand, is /stop/. It is most famous as death, but it's also quiet, peace, stillness, silence, and absence. Without negative energy nothing could cease to be or halt its motion.

Sound & silence. Of course one radiates while the other points inwards. How can it not?

> I just think an Eiremian who bottles up all that negative energy would be very unhealthy for them. They know its bad but they keep it because it keeps them calm and collected.

They don't really do it on purpose. It's just that some part of an eiremian is /absence/. There's a piece of that person that literally /is not/, and it's not something missing because it's supposed to, well, not be there, but it's definitely something different from all these people around them that seem so 100% /is/ all the time by comparison. It's why they're so organized; they have this need to know that things have a place and are in that place, because if they /are/ in a place, then they can't /not be/. That need to reference their environment is because there's this nagging perception that they themselves aren't there, which is also the foundation of their difficulties with self-expression and self-projection. Every now and again eiremians get up in the morning and have to figure out how to be a /presence/ again, because they forgot what it's like to be the main character in their own life.
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>>45085240
My biggest wish is to not die next sesh.
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>>45085240
Ways to get around poison immunity that aren't such a pain in the ass.
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Is marrying a dvati considered to be polygamous?
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>>45085244
But Gareth, Negative Energy is not like light or heat - The absence of positive energy is not negative energy. It is its own expanding force.

Surely there must be /some/ Eiremians who realize that they can lash out instead of bottling it up inside? Its a harmful and maybe self-destructive way to express themselves, but its a valid method, right?

Or am I mistaking how negative energy affects a person? Does it cause a sense of lethargy and depression rather than rage?
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>>45085240
Right now, I'm kinda living the dream regarding wishlisting stuff. I just put the finishing touches on things for the next wave of the Occult playtest, I've had chances to do interesting concepts outside of it, and when I had an idea for a race it literally went from concept to playtest teaser in two days.

Actual wishlisting though: I wish I had more time to DM.
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>>45085266
No, marriage is mind-affecting.
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>>45085240
I wish for a PoW Discipline all about being omniprescent and very mobile in a battlefield. Maybe even have some form of mounted maneuvers or a greater focus on charging and moving around erratically to cause as much chaos to enemy lines.
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Can you stack blur and displacement?
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>>45085274
Even in undead negative energy is a draining force, anon. It's not something that wells or grows on its own; it grows because the destruction it wreaks creates more absence, which in turn causes more destruction. Eiremians aren't overflowing with /death/; they're not /overflowing/ at all. There's nothing to vent - there's just a bit there that's intentionally empty, a hollow space where in someone else, /something/ oughta be, but in an eiremian is a part of themselves the way their memories or their hobbies are.

That said, the idea of a kineticist or other neg-related archetype has our attention; I just want to address the idea that eiremians are internalizing power that they could be dealing with in a way more healthy for themselves. They aren't. This is just them, how they are, and they didn't ask for it and neither did anyone else. It's not like being doomed to die is anything special; just about everyone is doomed to die. It's not something to be more afraid of, just somethin' to deal with.

It should also be noted that we're dealing in a non-Golarion interpretation of the negative energy plane; Golarion fluff is not OGL and in this case is also a massive disservice to the concept in favor of MUH UNDEAD, MUH EVIL, MUH ANNIHILATION, ISN'T DEATH AWFUL GUYS, NOT THAT I'M FUCKING BITTER and is not available for our use.
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>>45085240
I home-rule this anyway, but it should be an official rule that wizards HAVE to pick a specialization school and can then cast only spells from that school. Magic manifests in many ways, and learning a certain style is almost akin to learning an art style. Some people are better at realistic art, some people are better at anime-style art. Some people are better at illusion, some people are better at throwing fireballs.

It does alot to fight the whole "casters can do everything" problem and creates interesting play because they think more about how to use the tools they have instead of having a perfect tool for everything.

Casters are still one of the strongest classes even with these rules in place... but it helps.
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>>45085315
No, both are essentially the same type of bonus (concealment), so only the highest bonus counts. Mirror image and Displacement however, do stack, and will guaranteed make you untouchable.
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Trying to think of a somewhat interesting story tie-in for a Half-elf Bloodrager, draconic bloodline. Any story suggestions?
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>>45085344
>bloodrager can cast mirror image on the start of a rage for free, sans the actual spell slot
>can cast displacement on himself for 11 rounds at that point
>"I'M FUCKING INVINCIBLE"
In all seriousness, thanks for the help. I'm trying to make the most brutally overpowered bloodrager I can, at the moment, I think I'm doing pretty good. Funny thing is, it's PFS legal, since I don't actually use Primalist for anything, I could just scrap it.
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>>45085351
What kind of setting etc?
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>>45085351
>half-elf bloodrager
Are you me, anon? I was literally (literally) thinking of that just a few hours ago, until I realized I really needed a bonus feat at the start and went human.
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>>45085373
Remember you can get different stacking sources of strength bonuses: arcane (Bull's Strength), alchemy (Mutagen), morale (Rage) and size (Enlarge Person).
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>>45085385
You get a free exotic weapon proficiency, that's a lot like a bonus feat.
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>>45085375
Being made for Rise of the Runelords. >>45085385
No Anon, I am not you, been thinking of making this for some time and am finally getting the opportunity to do so.
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>>45085240
Get my material published.
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>>45085403
I'm going full-on panzerker for this character, nothing exotic would help me since I'm only going to be using shields as weapons in the first place. My bonus feat gives me a tumor.
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>>45085276
New kineticist when?
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So an elan cryptic with the Pattern Wielder and Brutal Disruptor archetypes and Branding Pattern adds twice their Intelligence on every attack with a manufactured weapon plus the full damage of their Disrupt Pattern, doubtless modified by feats. Non-manufactured weapons (like the kind you get from Major Metamorphosis) still add their Intelligence and Disrupt Pattern.

lol maneuvers

What are some good uses for Hurl Tattoo? Ranged touch attack within 10 feet, force target to activate the psionic tattoo you just threw at them. Psionic tattoos are any power up to third level that targets one or more creatures, and automatically set target to "creature activating the tattoo," with all other choices controlled by you. Mythic Scribe Tattoo lets you use powers of any level. The advantage of Hurl Tattoo over just using the power is that you can force an enemy to use a normally-Personal psionic power to theoretically fuck themselves in an unusual way.

So far all I can really think of is shrinking monsters with Minor Metamorphosis, though. It turns out there aren't a lot of debilitating Personal-range spells.

I guess you can use it to manifest as many powers a round as you can use ranged touch attacks, including hitting your allies with personal powers, but if you're not mythic that's "only" buffs up to 3rd level and if you are mythic that's probably pretty expensive, right? Power level x manifester level x 50 per tattoo, and you generally won't skimp on manifester level. Unless...well, I guess spending 150-300 GP to spend a single round tagging three people with Force Screen is pretty good.

Actually it seems like targeting allies is a lot better than targeting enemies. PERHAPS TOO GOOD?
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>>45085341
I'm all for trying to even things out, but I think that's too far. That produces parties that just don't have the tools to deal with a lot of problems, and would be too restricted to be fun for me.
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>>45085451
Unchained Kineticist 2016
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>Greater Bloodrage (Su)
>Upon entering a bloodrage, the bloodrager can apply the effects a bloodrager spell he knows of 2nd level or lower to himself.
>If the spell's duration is greater than 1 round, it instead lasts for the duration of the bloodrage.

If, say, a bloodrager used mirror image and created 1d4 + 3 clones at level 11, would they last throughout the entirety of the bloodrage even if hit? If not, what would their effect be?
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>>45085513

The clones will last until the bloodrage ends...unless they are hit, in which case they shatter as normal. If you run out of clones, you run out, as normal.
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>>45085483
>I guess you can use it to manifest as many powers a round as you can use ranged touch attacks, including hitting your allies with personal powers

Wait, is this real? Where the fuck is Pattern Wielder from? What the fuck do you mean ONLY up to third level?
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>>45085486
Casters still have tools, lots and lots of tools. They just don't have ALL the tools. Restrictive? The Transmutation Wizard can still turn into a cariety animals and use those forms for everything from stealth to scouting to combat to survival. An Enchantment wizard is still a better charisma-whore than a bard. An Conjurationist has a plethora of pokemon at his command or the ability to break reality via teleportation.

Not sure what you mean by "restrictive". They still have tons of options, it just takes a bit more thought now and doesn't allow a wizard to render the rest of the party obsolete. They have to pick a FEW amazing things to do now instead of ALL the amazing things.
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>>45085300
That's pretty much Veiled Moon + Shattered Mirror. Maybe with some Eternal Guardian mixed in.
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Are the Ethumions and Eiremians the only two new races, or does DSP have other new races being cooked up?
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I'm rolling up a third level gestalt wizard/rogue who has craft wondrous item. The GM said that in addition to the 5000 gold we're starting with, we have a separate pool of 3750 gold to spend on any single item, but we can't keep any change from that pool. Crafting prices count, so I can theoretically get craft a wondrous item worth up to 7500 gold.

Any suggestions?
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>>45085240
Goatfolk as a race. Or maybe something like Satyrs and Fauns.
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>>45085240
I just want a game I can play in. I'll play fucking PbP man, if I can just /play/.
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>>45085586
Honestly, if you have some change left over, make a set of boots with featherfall (or any item really, it doesn't have to be boots).

Even if it's just a single use per day, I've found it have saved my characters' lives sooo many times in the early-game. It's also a good trump-card in a chase if you have somewhere high to jump from. Generally your pursuer won't keep up the chase unless they have some kind of flight ability, which isn't too common at the lower levels.
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>>45085586
I don't know the price but I highly recommend Ring Gates.
The most abused wondrous item in our games.

But since you guys are still at 5th level and you're a crafter wizard. Get a heavy cart and horse. Build a workshop going on so that you get multiple bonuses to your craft and a place to store your loot.
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>>45085621
If that's the case, just get a snapleaf instead.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/snapleaf
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>>45085568
I want Piercing Thunder on a horse. What the fuck do you even do with it now? Make line attacks, or just get the dual-wield greatsword stance and ignore the entire discipline to go Thrashing Dragon?

>>45085586
Is this even a real question? A folding boat, obviously. You will 100% use it on a regular basis and every use will be a campaign highlight. Alternatively make a pile of tree feather tokens, and some other tokens because your DM is going to take them away from you once he understands what it truly means to have instantaneous access to a 5-foot diameter 60-foot height 40-foot top diameter oak tree.
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>>45085639
Damn... that almost looks overpowered for the crafting price, especially if it' re-useable. I wasn't even allowed to have re-useable invisibility items in the last game I played, just vanish potions.
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>>45085664
It is not reusable.

>I wasn't even allowed to have
Gut your DM with a carving knife.
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>>45085664
They're consummables. But damn if they aren't incredibly useful. Its two spells with an immediate action to activate after all.
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>>45085586
If you're travelling alot, make a re-useable charm with the "mount" spell, always have a horse sitting just an item-use away.
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>>45085639
Wait, immediate action invisibility?
That is fucking OP. Its a fucking Cheat-Death-once-per-encounter item.
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>>45085586
>>45085621
>>45085679

This, if you're making enchanted items, make them utility spells so you won't need to use your spell slots on those spells. Stuff like water breathing, monkeyfish, alarm wards, Foe's Measure (if your GM allows third-party content), ect.

Sheer utility will help you more than a single powerful item... except for maybe a staff if you're relying on magic as your main form of combat... and even that's sorta iffy since it takes an extra feat to craft and also doesn't allow the use of meta-magic feats.
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>>45085671
who said that?
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>>45085621
>>45085734
No change, and it's only a single item. It's more of a voucher for any single item up to 3750g rather than the actual gold.
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>>45085586
Whatever item you make, put the "Returning Weapon" property on it if it's a weapon. Even if you're not throwing the weapon, it means if you get disarmed you can use the Withdraw action to pull away from the opponent and then have your weapon be back in your hand at the start of your next turn.
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>>45084999
Why must you continue to tease me with a book that I cant get my hands on?
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>>45085886
Can't do arms and armor at third level. Only crafting feats are Scribe Scroll, Brew Potion, and Craft Wondrous Items.

I'm pretty much just looking to get the best bang for my buck in wondrous items.
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>>45085916
Why take Brew Potion when you can just make Wondrous Items that do the same things and then tell your allies the activation words? It seems like a waste of a feat. Yeah, potions are cheaper, but only by like 25gp.
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How good is 51 AC + 90% chance for enemy to hit wrong target + 20% to miss even if it hits the right target?
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>>45085980
At what level?
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>>45086067
13. I think I might even be lowballing it, but I'm too hazy to think straight. I've spent too many damn hours minmaxing.
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>>45085980
Would be unhittable except for all the shit that can just see right through your % based miss chances.
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>>45085980
Generally unhittable, depending on where you're getting those numbers and what you're applying it to, but MinMaxing AC is pretty useless against even a minorly competent GM.
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>>45085980
Dude, why?
If your DM can't hit your AC, he'll be targetting your saves instead.
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>>45086098
>10 base
>9 mithral full plate
>3 dex bonus
>2 from mithral heavy spiked shield 1
>2 from mithral heavy spiked shield 2
>2 from the first shield's defending enhancement bonus
>2 from the second shield's defending enhancement bonus
>3 from fated bloodrager
>1 from fate's favored
>4 from shield spell
>2 from ablative barrier
>5 from blood armor
>6 from ironskin
A-Am I doing it right, /pfg/?
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>>45086146
>2 shields
what the fuck
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>>45086146
Go the shield master feat tree and dual shield it all day.
>>45086153
Its not farfetched to me, made a build around dual shielding since Shield Master is hillarious with two shields.
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>>45086146
Shield bonuses do not stack at all.
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>>45086146
Enhancement bonuses do not stack.
Shield bonuses do not stack. You have WAY less AC than you think you do.
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>>45086146
>>45086168
ANY bonuses that share the same name don't stack. Shields, Armor, Dodge, whatever. Sorry man.
>>
What would it take to upgrade an eversmoking bottle to emit something like tear gas or some manner of chemical weapon (chlorine, phosgene, hydrogen cyanide) instead of just smoke?
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>>45086146
You are stacking too many things that don't stack. You get to add a single Shield modifier, a single Enhancement to your Shield, a single Armor modifier and a single Enhancement to your armor.

Your total AC is 11 higher than it should be, unless your GM is allowing you special privileges.

That being said, your actual total AC of 41 is admirable for your level.
You are forgetting to apply a penalty of 2 for your Bloodraging though.
So, 39 most of the time.

If I'm doing my math right, anyway. It's late and I've had a vicodin.
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>>45086197
*10 higher, not 11. That wasn't even bad math, just a typo.
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>>45086153
All right, here's why. I never knew you could stack archetypes until earlier today. When I did, I decided to see if I could manage to make the most out of it with my favorite class. So I made a Primalist Crossblooded Spelleater Bloodrager with Destined and Aberrant bloodlines. Those two have the best mix of bloodline spells and feats, and powers in general. I realized early on that I could get ridiculous amounts of survivability through spelleater's fast healing + fast healer + sheer incapability to be hit. So I decided to see what I could do to make that last one count.

I found that with the aberrant bloodline, I'm allowed a feat called the aberrant tumor, which gives me a tumor for a familiar. This in turn lets me give it the protector archetype, taking half of whatever damage I receive. Since it has fast healing 5 by default, it can take whatever hits rarely come my way.

Now I need to minmax my armor. I get a mithral full plate to plod around in since bloodrager has fast movement, best ac. For spells I get Shield, Blur, Line in the Sand, Ablative Barrier, Ironskin, Blood Armor, Mirror Image -- anything that can max out my AC or ability to not take hits. Then I get shields -- not only for the AC, but because aberrant gives you reach. Five feet of reach + Enlarge Person + Long Arm makes it so that practically everything is in range to take an attack of opportunity. With the Shield Master feat tree + Stand Still + 20' reach, I have possibly the greatest battlefield control by any martial without PoW. Anything moves, threatens my team, I bullrush them out.

Once level 12, I also get Defy Death, which means as long as I pass a fort DC of 20, I will not die, to anything.

Am I doing this right, /pfg/?
>>
>>45086197
>>45086205
Good to know, I also forgot about the bloodraging penalty and was too tired to realize a few things didn't stack. Thanks for the help.
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>>45086186
This isn't quite true, dodge bonuses do stack, but your point still stands.
>>
>>45086153
>>45086226
I just realized I didn't explain why I got two shields, only that I got one for AC. It's mostly to make AoO shield slams and bull rush any enemy out of my threatened area.
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>>45086226
>For spells I get Shield, Blur, Line in the Sand, Ablative Barrier, Ironskin, Blood Armor, Mirror Image -- anything that can max out my AC or ability to not take hits.
Shield = shield bonus (doesn't stack with a shield)
Blur = concealment
Ablative Barrier = armor bonus (doesn't stack with armor)
Ironskin = enhancement bonus (doesn't stack with armor enchantment)
Blood Armor = enhancement bonus (doesn't stack with magic armor)

I think you need to go back and actually read what magic works on what.
>>
>>45086257
Just a precision for other anons: Enhancement bonus on an armor or shield actually enhance the enchanted item's armor / shield bonus. They do not work on the same variable, this is why they "stack".

Ironskin actually enhance the natural armor bonus. It doesn't stack with an amulet of natural armor but stack with enhancements on armors / shield.

Ablative barrier is indeed useless.

Blood Armor is quite explicit that it doesn't work on armor which already have an enchantment. It is still a very nice spell when you have to borrow an armor from a guard.
>>
I was wondering, who's got the most utility-focused spell list among the 6/9 casters?
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>>45086098
>against a GM
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>>45086111
>implying not having ac will help his saves.
>>
>>45085341
>conjuration
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>>45085615
Did flying pirates game even start?
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>>45085886
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/returning

...Where exactly does it say it automatically returns to you if you withdraw?
>>
>>45086735

It never took off, in fact it crashed and burned in a most spectacular fashion
>>
I am being retarded and becoming a Bladecaster because I'm stupid. Dervish Defender using a quarterstaff (has to be a double weapon so i can free action take one hand off to cast) only taking 1 level in warder, 6 in wizard then Bladecaster.
Which disciplines should i take? I can get Eternal Guardian or Riven Hourglass, maybe trade Broken Blade for Cursed Razor to go with Guardian so i can fuck up saving throws for my spells?
>>
Weird character ideas that worked?
Weird character ideas that worked.

>Antipaladin
>Roll well, get 18 dex, give him +2 to it due to human
>Get point blank shot and rapid shot
>level 5 starting for campaign
>10,500 starting gold due to estimated character wealth
>buy leaf armor, composite longbow +1 for 16 strength (I have 17 strength) with flaming
>pick the fiendish animal companion choice for level 4, grab a Fiendish Auroch
>For the level 3 ability, I chose Sickening
>I am now an antipaladin who thinks he is a ranger
>>
>>45086918
Its not exactly weird, but Goliath Druid Unchained Monk, transform into a giant and do kung fu. Shillelaigh with Flurry of Bows under Enlarge Person was the low level version of it.

The only weird part was i played an Obitu so i was a skeleton man, meaning basically when i wild shaped into a giant i was growing flesh out of my bones.
>>
>>45086889
What about Downtime God's Wolfenstein-inspired game?
>>
>>45087050
Castle Ulfenstein is currently being worked on, it's just on the backburner because he's dealing with two Gestalt games and alcoholism.
>>
>>45085483
this is like the tenth time in the last month someone somewhere has had a 'cute' trick for DSP that is actually complete 100% unplayable bullshit.

here is my honest question: why is this considered better than Paizo, really? Paizo has a fuckle of broken garbage, but they also errata ruthlessly, or at least TRY. every time something breaks because infinite healing or infinite teleports or apparently now free mass quickening spell-share, there's just a tide of "well at least it's not Paizo."

at what point will it finally become clear that 4th tier and under is the only fucking way to run the game that nobody designs this wanton bullshit to ruin? i am tired of ripping up sheets because someone slipped something in just to be an asshole. i just want to play without the goddamn overpowered faggotry everyone keeps screaming is fine.
>>
>>45087065
Wow anon, you seem angry, did someone deal damage in a game you're in?
>>
>>45087065
Then play 5e.

Pathfinder will never be good for low-power games unless you throw out about 80% of its content.
And by that point you might as well not be playing Pathfinder.
>>
>>45086908
>I am being retarded
Well, at least you're off to an honest start.

>Which disciplines should I take?
It has been universal across all editions of D&D that if something is in ANY WAY related to time, you should take it, because it will vastly outperform comparable options. Oh look, Riven Hourglass does exactly that, especially for a spellcaster. Swift action attacks are great for when you're not casting swift action spells.

Cursed Razor for saves, maybe, but it's traditionally a Discipline that basically wants you to whiteknuckle all-in tunnel vision it because everything in it works with everything else in it and aside from the awkward synergy with Eternal Guardian it works with nothing else.

Shattered Mirror is the Discipline that hard-scales with how competent your opponents are, so use your judgment. The smarter your DM plays antagonists, the more effective it becomes, since their buffs are your buffs and their clever positioning gambits are your decisive tactical upsets.

Don't trade Broken Blade. It's still broken (blade) until errata, which let's be honest, is not coming until the very small team completely burns out on cool new ideas (that correlated directly to financial success, you know, the thing that matters) but not so much that they don't feel like slogging through shit they've already done to tune it to be less crap. If you don't have a dedicated errata team, errata is a shitty business. It's like you're in heat and want to make babies, but your strong orc husband tells you you have to go back and mutilate the babies you've already made because they're fucking deformed. Anyway, Broken Blade is really strong and I think quarterstaffs work with it? I don't know. Probably.

But mostly you just want Thrashing Dragon strikes, Riven Hourglass boosts, a mix of stances from both, and counters from every fucking place you can get them. Extended Defense is too good not to favor.
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Behold, apallie player race, v3: http://pastebin.com/LWHRCBLh

Now with natural attacks added in and a round of clarifications so people don't have to look up polymorph rules all the time.

I'm pretty happy with how this turned out, considering it's my first time converting a bestiary creature. Now to look into the Celedon to satisfy my friend's warforged fetish...
>>
Does the game catch fire if I let a Magus have a feature where he adds Str to spell damage he deals without using Spellstrike? Just like his amazing magical muscles somehow put more oomph into his Fireball and shit?
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>>45087125
no, i'm angry because you can manifest all your best buffs across your whole party as a ranged touch attack. there's a distinct fucking difference between that and damage, although three times intelligence plus a bunch of d6s and like +10 more damage on every attack you make is also pretty close to the "fighters that kill a thing once a round are tier 3" thought exercise. you know what? maybe they are. you know what they're not? any fucking fun, holy shit.
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>>45087214
There was a 3.5 prestige class that could do the same thing.
It ain't a big deal, man.
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>>45087183
Doesn't sound like it'd break much. A Crossblooded Orc/Dragon dip adds like 6x the damage he'd get from adding STR to spelldamage.
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>>45087183
It sounds like you want to do homosex things with the magus, Anon. You should talk to the magus' player if about it, he might let you touch his dick while doing some ERP or something.

Also no, a bit more damage probably won't break anything. A magus still shouldn't be dealing as much damage as a barbarian, even with a free STR bonus to damage with spells. I'm not entirely sure why you want to give him that, though.
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>>45086908
It doesn't matter a lot. The reason why Path of War gishes are retarded when Tome of Battle gishes were not is because swift actions were late-step in 3.5, so quickening spells was a free action and everything else was either free, passive, move, or standard. There wasn't any real competition for using a boost or counter.

In Pathfinder, even NOT PLAYING PATH OF WAR you are gonna have a lot of things that want your swift/immediate and since Path of War is like three times as powerful as Tome of Battle its boosts and counters are things you really, really want to do. It's easiest to just focus on that and not dilute your build with shit that's going to be so hard to use.

Strikes should be your primary thing you're looking at. Counters are great when you can use them. Don't bother with boosts much and don't bother with Eternal Guardian or Cursed Razor - they want you to do combat setup you don't have the action economy to do and still justify being a bladecaster.
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>>45087284
there was a 3.5 feat called Divine Metamagic that let you fuck the expected action economy of buffing. it was a pretty big deal.

three buffs/round for no power point cost and ignoring range personal restrictions seems like it's the kind of thing that puts ultimate psionics in the garbage tbqfh.
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>>45084999
Handily enough someone's posted the fulltext of Tears to Wine here:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ta3v

So not only does it have a few dozen lewd applications, it's actually also a really good spell.
Definitely going to have my alchemist add this to her book next chance she gets.
>>
Reposting hexcrafting Alchemist because fuck yea.

WHAT YOU LOSE OR GET LESS OF:
>Poison. Everything related to poison goes out the window.
>You only get HALF your level as a bonus to your alchemy skill
>Say goodbye to Persistant Mutagen and Instant Alchemy
>you no longer have proficiency with light armor, sucker
>maybe also drop down to 2+Int mod skills/level, and trade sleight of hand and disable device for Knowledge: (Religion, Planes)

WHAT YOU GAIN:
>Can trade discoveries for hexes at level 4, you can get major hexes at level 12, but you DO NOT GAIN GRAND HEXES AT ALL; alternatively, you may only pick ONE grand hex, AT LEVEL 20
>You can now use the same cantrips as a witch, with the same cantrip progression as a witch
>tying into the previous boost, you add curse spells to your class spell list, and may prepare and cast them (as well as certain other alchemist "spells") as arcane spells using extract slots as long as it is one level lower than your highest level extract
>have archetype specific discoveries, including one that allows you to gain equal casting and access to a few Witch spells

>"anon what the fuck is this"
Reposting the archetype again before I sequester it to my shitty homebrew folder that will never see the light of day
>"why doesn't it replace bombs/mutagen/*insert feature here*?"
The anon who originally suggested it wanted it to stack with the Promethean Alchemist. I liked that idea, so here we are.
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>>45087301
>Don't bother with boosts much

Nigga, boosts + full attack is how you one-turn-kill enemies with Path of War.
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>>45087340
Why do you need skill monkeys when you can have Tears to Wine?
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Hey /pfg/, the party I'm DMing for will fight a sadistic fey later on tonight. I'll need some dark spoopy music for that and don't have anything related in my playlist. Can you help a fellow ForeverDM out?
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>>45087408
I think that's what he's complaining about. He's suggesting boosts are too good when the focus should be on strikes instead.
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>>45087175
What?
Im never going to get Extended Defense. I have 1 level in Warder and will never take another. Did you forget I'm a bladecaster halfway through your post?
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>>45087318
There was literally a 3.5 prestige class that allowed you to buff int mod people with int mod buffs as a quickened action, including turning touch buffs into close ranged buffs.
What part of not even new, original, or actually a problem have you missed, unless you think the ability to rapidly, at cost, buff a party is bad?
Divine Metamagic was a problem because otherwise, turn attempts were absolutely useless for anything else.
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>>45087284
>3.5 let you do it
>This is apparently evidence of balance.
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>>45087065
I've never had your experience. Its trivially easy to bring encounters up to these power levels by adding an extra zombie giant or two. What is next to impossible is tuning down to the level of tier 4 characters, because any monster with special abilities or with abnormally high damage just annhilates tier 4 characters with nothing they can ever do about it except suck the T1s dicks until they get rid of it for them.

Fuck you, Paizo has NEVER erratad anything broken, they always Errata martial tricks whilst leaving everyone else overpowered as fuck. Crane wing, swashbuckler feats/archetypes, monks using natural attacks all these things recieved hard nerfs but SLEEP AND COLOR SPRAY ARE UNMOLESTED.

There will NEVER be a case for "Paizo erratas out broken tricks" whilst Fabricate, Create Demiplane, Simulacrum, Planar Binding and hundreds of other fucking spells are in the game unmolested and unnerfed. They will never see a single piece of errata or change.
Paizo's Errata has been to the DETRIMENT of pathfinder and has pushed the game HIGHER in tier focus, not lower as its invalidated all the lower tier builds.
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>>45085898
>>45084999
Your tear is delicious. Thanks for the buff.
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>>45085686
You thinks it's OP? What if I tell you people used to treat it as an infinite use magic item instead of consumable?
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>>45087730
Well, it's obviously consumable RAI, but the RAW is pretty clear and has no indication whatsoever that it's single use.
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>>45087340
>>45087689
Never accept a free drink from spell caster.
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>>45087065
Not to mention what the fuck do you mean infinite teleports? Infinite teleports isn't a broken trick, most of the fucking monsters in the game can infinitely teleport anywhere within a given plane as a standard fucking action. Infinite healing is just making the game fair for martials as they aren't completely fucked over unless they expend half their WBL or suck casters dicks. You have no concept of pathfinder balance.
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>>45087797
>most of the fucking monsters in the game can infinitely teleport anywhere within a given plane as a standard fucking action
a)it's not "most of the monsters", it's pretty much just outsiders
b)monsters having certain ability doesn't mean it would be balanced on the hands of the PCs. Unless they run away, monsters that face PCs have life expectancy measured in rounds, so whether their ability is a at will or 3/day makes pretty much no difference.
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How do I play Anti-Paladin without being an edgelord?
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>>45087774
What if she's cute?
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>>45087886
That just means she's a sorcerer, which means she's got something to prove and is even more dangerous.
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>>45087883
Cheerful nihilism.
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Hey /pfg/, I was offered to partecipate in a semi-gestalt game, the semi being that I can only gestalt if I play a tier 3 or below class.
I have this concept in mind of a paladin of Shelyn, which is a concept that appeals me very much for a good aligned adventurer, gestalting bard/paladin, and since I know the table favours optimizing, I was wondering whether it's a good combo and how to make it a worthwhile party member.
I was considering taking the arcane duelist and knight disciple archetypes, mainly so I can wear medium/heavy armor and use two handed weapons while casting, all while having sweet sweet maneuvers instead of shitty paladin spells, but I'm open to suggestions.
Is this a good class combo? Am I fucking up my action economy? Am I ignoring better options here?
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>>45087883
Antipaladins of NE gods can be bros. Norgorber's antipaladins are just Men in Black, working in the shadows to keep the common man docile and ignorant.
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>>45087850
Most monsters in the game are outsiders but almost all magical beasts and undead after level 8 have it too.

The attitude that players and monsters are totally different is a bullshit one to begin with and is deeply rooted in an anti-roleplaying, anti-consistency and anti-game design viewpoint. Even if you somehow accept this ridiculous assertion to be true, movement options are never one of these as they are something the players cannot compete against without having it themselves. If the players wish to chase a teleporting monster, they must teleport just as they must fly to chase flying monsters. DMs can of course simply self nerf, but at that point game design isn't even in the question. Infinite healing is the same issue, all encounters face a foe at full resources, even those were the foe has less than bestiary resources they have simply been designed as such and are at full intended fighting capacity. The idea that players should begin every fight at a variable disadvantage is horseshit and terrible design.
>>
Can a level 1 character reliably hit as high as 44 damage without using any 3rd party content?

Hard mode: Core only
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>>45088000
>If the players wish to chase a teleporting monster, they must teleport
Or, you know, prevent it from teleporting
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Could someone post that Mask feat from AA that makes you nameless or whatever? It'd be greatly appreciated.
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>>45088049
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>>45087947
I'm playing a Bard/Pally gestalt right now (whos a pally of Shelyn!)

Arcane Duelist / Chosen One

I mean its Gestalt, you're gonna be action gated pretty fucking bad. But its honestly hard to fuck up, inspire courage, use your auras, and just be a strong central pivot for the party.
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>>45087883
I was always the Anti-paladin of the little evil. I didn't define my life by slaughters, betrayal and rampant destruction, but by corruption.
I taught children how to fight and gave them poisoned knives. I showed the homeless the time of day and route merchant's wives took to get home. I spread poison and disease into food that would not kill, but would cause diarrhea, light fevers and other distress. I payed for everything in the smallest units of currency possible and i always, ALWAYS made sure to bring back some dry branches from every adventure to pile up in the backalleys near important buildings to increase the risk of something catching fire.

Make the world a worse place with every action you take, bring a little darkness with every step and sap a little bit of hope and goodness from the world. Even if its just telling a child santa isn't real or leaving caltrops on a busy merchant road, that's the Antipaladin way.
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>>45088055

Much obliged anon.
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>>45087883
Be a Saturday morning cartoon villain? Your evil plan are harmless or bring good result to others.
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>>45088074

Anon you're a fucking piece of shit and I'm totally stealing that.
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>>45088015
Human Wizard 1 with 18 STR, Material Mastery for Cold Iron, Colorspray enemy and CdG with a CI Scythe for 8d4+28 damage, averaging exactly 44 damage.
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>>45088021
Its a standard action, unless they have specifically readied counterspell, dimensional anchor, or a ranged attacker to shoot them when they cast it they can just move away then teleport. I don't even know if you can counterspell SLAs, but the point is all of those abilities have a far greater cost and amount of planning involved (some of them even involve permanent investment on the part of your character) than what the monster can do, which is just casually use an ability that is perfectly reasonable for anyone to have.
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>>45088093
Remember the goal isn't to just be evil, its to SPREAD evil. That's why you don't just kill the children. That would be more evil than giving them knives yes, but a child who accidentally murders another kid or has his friend die or whatever is pretty fucking likely to go down the path of evil himself. As is somebody who's really fucking angry because all the food as diarrhea, he has to sort through 4000 bronze coins in the morning and who had to put down his horse after it broke its leg in a fall caused by caltrops.
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>>45088021
And how are you supposed to prevent a creature from sla teleporting, especially at low levels, and with no caster?
I was in this exact situation, fighting a succubus the party had rooted out, and it escaped, because there was literally nothing I could do to prevent it as a martial.
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I'm bored. Time to post things that people don't care about.
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>>45088099
*Nvm, Ancestral Weapon trait isn't core anyways, and it's a +1 to hit, not damage. Still 40 average damage, though.
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>>45088000
>Most monsters in the game are outsiders but almost all magical beasts and undead after level 8 have it too.
Bullshit.

>The attitude that players and monsters are totally different is a bullshit one to begin with and is deeply rooted in an anti-roleplaying, anti-consistency and anti-game design viewpoint.
They aren't totally different, but they aren't identical either. Asserting that something is totally okay for PCs to have because there's a monster with that ability is idiotic, plain and simple. There are monsters that get wish as a spell-like ability, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be broken in the hands of a PC. Similarly, regeneration of any kind wouid make PCs de facto immortal against majority of monsters.

>Even if you somehow accept this ridiculous assertion to be true, movement options are never one of these as they are something the players cannot compete against without having it themselves. If the players wish to chase a teleporting monster, they must teleport just as they must fly to chase flying monsters.
This is the only legitimate argument you have.
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>>45088154

Do you have the Songs of the Linnorm Kings one?
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>>45088099

what?

Could you break that down a bit more for us?
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>>45088154
And things that some of you might care about.
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>>45088000
>almost all magical beasts and undead after level 8 have it too.
What the fuck are you talking about?
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>>45088104
Why, yes, the players shouldn't expect to be able to steamroll any and all encounters with no difficulties, preparations or knowledge of the enemy. That's a GOOD thing, anon.
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>>45088177
The spellbook?

SONGS OF THE LINNORM KINGS (MEDITATION BOOK, LEVEL 5 SKALD)

This book’s cover is made of scales that are warm to the touch.

Value 180 gp (440 gp with the preparation ritual)

SPELLS

2nd—marching chant, path of glory, scare
1st—cure light wounds, heightened awareness, remove fear
0 (at will)—dancing lights, ghost sound, lullaby, mage hand, mending, resistance

MEDITATION RITUAL
Storied Spell Lore (Su) When you use this meditation ritual, choose a spell of 2nd level or lower in this meditation book. Whenever you cast a bard or skald conjuration spell, you can spend this boon as a swift action to add the chosen spell to your list of bard or skald spells known for 1 round.
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>>45088179
>gets arcane discoveries
>gets easier access to the most powerful PrC in PF
>gets spells from other spell lists

Arcanist came out of this book laughing like a madman.
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>>45088178
Alright, Human Wizard with 18 Strength, and you pick up a Scythe. Nonproficiency doesn't matter here. You use Color Spray on an enemy, he'll fail his save because the average enemies you'll be facing at CR 1 have their Will save at -1 or 0, move up to him, and next turn you Coup de Grace. Critical Autonconfirms, and the weapon has a x4 modifier, so 2d4*4=8d4, and +6*4=+24. 8d4 averages to 2.5*8=20 damage, plus 24 makes it 44.
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>>45088209
No, it means that unless you CAN steamroll the encounter, a reasonably intelligent creature with sla teleport can't functionally be defeated without casters.
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>>45087883
You could play the anti-paladin-by-necessity.

Maybe your god and your order fell, leaving you and your loved ones defenseless. You were surrounded by your enemies when something reached out to you, offered you salvation...and you accepted. Now that you've made a pact with the devil, you're the thing you used to fight. You're looking for a way out, but if you don't uphold your end of the bargain, your new master will destroy everyone and everything you ever loved.

Just don't go full emo. You're an honor-bound warrior, not a whiny bitch.
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>>45088249

Got that for the most part. Whats with the Cold Iron and Material Mastery? The only material mastery I found was an alchemist discovery that doesn't seem to link at all.
>>
Is it possible to get racial weapon familiarity without being that race, and if so, what are the ways to do that?
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>>45088272
>gave in to a devil after your god or order fell
>not fighting till the last breath

Yes. Yes you are a whiny bitch who knows nothing of honor.
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>>45088260
I hate to be the one to tell you this, anon, but without casters(or 3pp material) you should probably not expect to do very well against very many mid-level encounters without either superb preparation or the GM deliberately playing the monsters below their intelligence. Paizo sucks at balance, we all know this.
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>>45088296
By being half that race.
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>>45088296
Cracked Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone.
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>>45088174
For an individual ability maybe, but for abilities like teleport or infinite healing, abilities possessed NEAR UNIVERSALLY by monsters it is absolutely as reasonable to say its fair for PCs as it would be to say monsters have melee attacks so PCs should get them.

Very few monsters have wish as SLAs and PCs already can do better than Wish as an SLA because they have fabricate so costs mean nothing. Not, "they have fancy fabricate tricks that combine 3 books in some way the devs never intended" they just have Fabricate. Comparing that to what i was talking about is disingenuous. Also any monster can slay something with regeneration by slapping it a handful of times then placing a rag on its face and peeing on it, even just skipping that and sitting on its face.

You misunderstand what i mean about the game deisgn thing anyway, because its not only an argument against this kind of player design, It is also an argument against monster design. Monsters should not be designed with abilities in mind that are not okay for a player to have. Not that monsters cant be more powerful or different to players, but monsters with any ability it would never be okay for a player to have no matter how powerful should not have those abilities.
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>>45088315
>sacrifice your life and your loved ones' for the sake of meaningless honor and nothing else whatsoever
Some selfishness you got there dude. Very un-paladin-like.
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>>45088288
Messed up the trait name, namely Ancestral Weapon, it gives you +1 to attack rolls with a weapon material you choose. Had confused it in both name and thought it added to damage rather than to attack rolls. You still deal 44 reliable damage without it.
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>>45088288
Weapon Master's Handbook stuff. It's not up in the SRD yet, I believe.
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>>45088325
>>45088260
It could be functionally defeated without casters though if the non-casters were allowed to have at will teleports.
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>>45088339
>for abilities like teleport or infinite healing, abilities possessed NEAR UNIVERSALLY by monsters it is absolutely as reasonable to say its fair for PCs as it would be to say monsters have melee attacks so PCs should get them.
Why? Support this claim. Monsters are balanced differently than PCs so the expectations are different.
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>>45088315
You sacrificed your soul for your loved ones. That's honorable, if not moral or wise.
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>>45088353
Someone say weapon Master's Handbook?
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>>45088339
Can someone explain to me how the Fabricate/Wish bullshit is supposed to work?
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>>45088349
>giving your life to protect your home is not selfish and meaningless

>giving it to a devil who makes you his bitch isn't
>>
>hurr durr infinite teleport
World of difference between teleporting Movement speed to an area you need to see. And teleporting 200 feet to an area you don't need to see and or across the planet.
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>>45088393
Nah, it's gay and dumb
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>>45088358
Or if the nature of the game is different.
>>45088376
It's the argument going that some creatures MUST be countered by casters, at times casters that have the direct silver bullet to stop shenanigans.
At will teleporting, for example, requires either 3pp or spells to stop, period. You couldn't even grapple a creature, or use anti-caster feats due to the arbitrary difference between SLAs and spells.
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>>45088439
>You couldn't even grapple a creature, or use anti-caster feats due to the arbitrary difference between SLAs and spells.
Eh? SLAs still require concentration checks, do they not?
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>>45088420
>World of difference between teleporting Movement speed to an area you need to see. And teleporting 200 feet to an area you don't need to see and or across the planet.
This.
I remember using ToB and the teleport line in the book, and the dm gave me grief about it.
I told him to point out any creature who has at will teleporting limited to:
Literally line of sight. Not line of effects, line of sight.
50' distance, and no more.
I basically used it to get out of grapples.
>>45088451
Iirc, slas are mentally activated, no rolls applicalble.
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>>45088405
>giving your life to protect your home is not selfish and meaningless
It is if you fail and you had alternatives to sacrificing yourself. Especially if you ignored those because you'd rather keep your reputation sterling than keep yourself and your loved ones alive.
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>>45088202
Any monster that can cast or has caster levels like liches, vampires, dragons etc.
Smoke Haunts, Thrasfyr, Unicorn, Tzizimitl, Julungalli, Ankou, Deathhand, Neothelid and a bunch of others. Admittedly saying level 8 wasn't accurate, it was closer to 14+ and much more weighted to fey, which i didn't think of because i don't deal with them much. Tons of monsters have the ability to either teleport constantly or teleport from one side of the world to the other as a standard action.
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>>45088439
>It's the argument going that some creatures MUST be countered by casters, at times casters that have the direct silver bullet to stop shenanigans.

What are you doing in a Pathfinder thread? It's very clearly not the right game for you.
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>>45088469
>Iirc, slas are mentally activated, no rolls applicalble.

No, I'm pretty sure they provoke.
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>>45088469
> . A grappled character who attempts to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level), or lose the spell. Grappled creatures cannot make attacks of opportunity.

SLA is called out in there.
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>>45088395
You can craft anything within a few minutes for the cost of its raw materials. A lot of objects in the world are worth a lot more than their raw materials and are very hard to make. Fabricate eliminates pesky issues like time so you can just grab some raw materials and shit out high value goods to earn thousands of gold to pay for your future wishes.

Even if you say that raw materials are always 1/3 final products cost, making Adamantine Full Plate in less than two minutes is going to turn you into a very rich man and its not like you have to worry about oversaturating the market much because with the amount of skill points a wizard gets its trivial to pick up more than one crafting skill and each skill can potentially cover a massive range of goods, not counting any that aren't "high degree of craftsmanship" which you can do without a check.
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>>45085240
I just wish to have the self-confidence to actually look for a game.
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Trading away too much?
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>>45088593
No deep marshal is great.
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>>45088469
Being mentally activated should makes it even more vulnerable to concentration check.
The fact that SLA has the same DC to concentrate as normal spell is an insult to all the Psychic.

And yes, you still needs to concentrate. Because..
> In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.
>>
>>45088593
Not at all, assuming you use one of the listed weapons. Necromancy is the only one of the forbidden schools that's a big loss, but you're getting more than enough new spells added in. Beyond that, you lose one arcana and a feat-equivalent of arcane pool capacity, but get back many feats worth of caster level boosts from miner's focus.
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>>45088629
Banning 3 school of magic is a pretty harsh trade for a few spells.
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>>45085244

That Ethumion is not flushed with nearly as much positive energy as she should, Gareth.

Needs more hips n' tits.
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>>45088683
You lose ~40 spells across all three of those schools on the magus list. You gain 70+ from the wizard's abjurations alone. The size disparity between 6-level and 9-level caster lists can't be overstated.
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>>45088744
>>>/r9k/
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>>45088772
How many of those are variant of Protection from X?
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>>45088832
Looking at just level 1 spells

4/17
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>>45088832
About a dozen, maybe sixteen if you count Protection from Arrows/Energy/Technology.

>>45088861
About as many as the magus has useless shit like Bed of Iron and Phantom Blood.
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>>45088901
But it made your armor as soft as silk anon. Don't you want to sleep on a silk bed?
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>>45088861
>>45088901
Except you neglect to mention the fact that most of the 1st level wizard abjurations that aren't on the magus list already are shiiiiiiiiiit.
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>>45088593
>stacks with hexcrafter
>you do not gain any of the hexcrafters spells
>you still get hexes

Worth?
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>>45088213
Can I have the Runes of Wealth spellbook?
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>>45088960
Same could be said about enchantment, illusion, and necromancy. Other than color spray and vanish, none of their 1st-level spells are even worth considering.
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>>45089003
And sleep and silent image and disguise self and charm person?
I wish necromancy had more useful low-level spells though.
>>
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>>45089049
>sleep/disguise self/charm person
>magus
>>
If the Galtian Cookbook isn't filled with ill-concieved boomy spells, I'd be disappointed.
>>
>>45088996
Sorry. It's pretty late here and I have to get up early tomorrow.
>>
>>45089090
I thought we were talking about wizard spells here.
>>
>>45089104
Alright, sleep well.
>>
>>45089090
>illiteracy
Read the archetype, cum-gargler.
>>
>>45089106
We're talking about a magus that loses access to its enchantment illusion and necromany spells to get access to the wizard abjuration spell list.
>>
>>45089106
We're talking about an archetype that trades the magus' enchanment/illusion/necromancy spells for all the wizard's 0th-6th abjurations, plus some assorted dorf stuff like fabricate.
>>
>>45089106
We talk about a magus archetype that gains all 0-6th level wizard abjuration spells but loses necromancy, illusion and enchantment on the magus list.
>>
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>>45087180
And I'm back, because I have nothing better to do with my mornings. Here's the celedon, a divine-oriented construct race: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1u5SaOhRXEQPA1-hpYq2WFVdJO1ID_sby_w7KCe37DLI/edit?usp=sharing
>>
>>45088420
Or infinite healing, where the infinite healing really only works outside of combat. I'm not sure why PoW having access to infinite self-healing even matters when you can make a dirt cheap magical item that gets you fast healing 1 regardless.

It's a fucking stupid argument. I'd much rather have a PoW martial with teleport maneuvers than a caster with three uses of dimension door, because the PoW teleports can't trivialize the world.
>>
>>45089327
Homebrew race man make me a race with no hands that works as a player race for core classes and is themed on the noble giraffe.

Great Race style "not hands" are allowed where its boneless manipulators sticking out the end of limbs, but the more inventive you get in solving the issue of tool use the better.
>>
>>45089406
Chosen One//Story Summoner
>>
Has anyone posted the full Agents of Evil pdf yet?
>>
>>45089337
Infinite self-healing is also an issue, since it means if you aren't completely dead after one encounter you're able to walk around as if that encounter never happened. So for any fight to actually be a challenge you need to have everything be boss fight levels of difficult, which just becomes dumb after a while.

Infinite healing is just "balanced" because you can get it with 1pp, which doesn't make it existing at all any better.
>>
Can you intentionally craft cracked/flawed ioun stones?
>>
>>45089686
I don't see why not.
>>
>>45089681
In my experience, that's a good thing for the game. Attrition-based gameplay sucks ass, and encounters should only really come up when they matter (or when RP leads to it).
>>
>>45089686
Probably. Just fluff it as you bought it that way.
>>
>>45089681
>Infinite healing is just "balanced" because you can get it with 1pp, which doesn't make it existing at all any better.
If the only way you can make a fight challenging is with resource drain, you've already failed simply by virtue of the number of ways casters can tell game logic to go fuck itself.
>but casters aren't part of the argument, everyone knows they're OP
They're still a core part of the game, regardless of them being OP. The presence of 1-6+ spellcasters invalidates game logic much of the time.

Attrition is a poor way of making fights difficult, as it defies normal player logic. It is much more logical then, to place realistic constraints on fights such as being time-sensitive, the need for stealth, or just high lethality in general. There are far more creative and interesting ways to do it than just throwing enemies at them until they run out magic missile.
>>
>>45089686
Yes.
You obviously aren't going to say that you made a flawless one then broke it, but you can say 'you used inferior cheap materials that you knew wouldn't hold together perfectly'.
>>
>>45089681
Why does it become dumb after a while to face well designed and unique encounters (bosses) instead of same old same old?
Why are the only fights where your players are at risk boss level? Are you purposefully allowing them to easily win everything other than bosses?
Why do you think HP is the only long term resource people expend? If it is the only resource that's expended, why is it justified to turn HP into a long term resource when that is clearly at odds with resource design in pathfinder?
Pathfinder monsters that are below maximum HP are reduced in CR, because they are below the expected strength. If you are trying to attrition players, you are reducing their effective APL and would have to reward them additional XP and treasure every time they had a fight under the effects of attrition.
>>
>>45088436
Also known as "honorable". Seriously, take a look some time at the various systems of honor from throughout history and around the world. They're all about convincing the little guy to sabotage the crap out of himself so the elites can more easily clobber him if he steps out of line. Two things none of them have ever really been about are morality and effectiveness.
>>
>>45090037
>you are reducing their effective APL and would have to reward them additional XP and treasure every time they had a fight under the effects of attrition

That's not how XP works in PF, and it's NEVER been how treasure or WBL worked in any system I've seen. One of the best made parts of 3.5 was the XP system(by which I do NOT mean CR ratings, but how they were used to award experience). Paizo ditched it because it's not OGL.
>>
>>45089475

This can already be done, but sadly only with materials based on the Cartoon Show Which Must Not Be Named.
>>
>>45090254
Caillou has a kid without hands now?
>>
>>45090315

The other CSWMNBN. The one with a main cast that resembles giraffes more closely than it resembles humans.
>>
>>45090374
I don't see why you're so afraid of the Backyardigans.
>>
>>45090374
Honestly given the choice between MLP or Caillou I would take MLP every single time. I hate that whiny little shit.
>>
>>45090400
I have watched more MLP than I care to admit--but then I have two daughters under 4 years old--and I STILL prefer it to Caillou. And so do they.
>>
>>45090471
Oh don't worry, I'm in a similar boat, I've got a six year old niece that I babysit. I actually got her to watch MLP the first time just because I knew there were so many episodes I wouldn't have to deal with Caillou for awhile. Totes worth it to get away from that awful show.
>>
>>45090400
Don't try to justify your degenrate furshit show.
>>
>>45090512
This is how I know you've never seen Caillou.
>>
>>45090512
Anyone forget that Ponyfinder is a thing?
>>
>>45090582
I'm doing my best, but you keep reminding me.
>>
>>45085451
Now.


It's been another three weeks, so we've got another set of Occult Psionics playtest materials for you all to peruse.

>The Ectoplasmic Artist, a kineticist archetype that partially shields their body from the ill effects of burn using psionic power, and manifests the remainder of their power in the form of an ectoplasmic guardian. We've also written up some new feats for kineticists.
Archetype: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19y_V3-_cKBzTYiFwt5M3Tij7ahQoPPt9XLTE1wreV68/edit#heading=h.d6k8i1ul1jjg
Feats: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19y_V3-_cKBzTYiFwt5M3Tij7ahQoPPt9XLTE1wreV68/edit#heading=h.7v1mbt7g9d13

>The Shadow Aspect, a wilder fueled by emptiness and neglect. Rather than getting standard wild surges, they gain a special type of phantom.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hP2rqjm2129K0doNLwlIk9-z2Wk-tLh6DjXGYVNQUPg/edit?usp=sharing

>Psionic discipline occultist implements; one each for athanatism, clairsentience, metacreativity, psychokinesis, psychometabolism, psychoportation, and telepathy. Any occultist with the psionic subtype may learn to use these implements, allowing a spellcasting occultist to cross over into uncharted territory, or a Shattered Mind occultist to focus entirely on psionics.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RzrGU81xkZUwavvnoTEfpLa-z9ElnkzWbNb_r2r9GJs/edit#heading=h.256f214d264o

>A set of psionic Skill Unlocks and several related feats, as well as rules for using occult skill unlocks as a psionic character.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YcE6T2piHuQYSVcF3BUPkF0eWwvtAS_heH8ZcOQHUHI/edit?usp=sharing
>>
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>>45090582
>mfw a potential player wanted to use this shit, and the GM didn't immediately veto it
>when the group was thinking of going through a Paizo AP
>his stipulation was that the player has to have the PDFs for it and share them with the group so everyone could check it
>vetoed it down the line anyway because the player took too fucking long, and apparently didn't even have the books
>mfw the player instead played their "Original Character, do not steal" vamp-I mean, "Dhampir"

Dodged one bullet only to get hit with a different one.
>>
>>45090763
What's wrong with dhampir?
>>
>>45090498

I dunno. I enjoyed his fight with the Sea King.
>>
>>45090153
>One of the best made parts of 3.5 was the XP system(by which I do NOT mean CR ratings, but how they were used to award experience). Paizo ditched it because it's not OGL.
I suppose it's in DMG1?
>>
>>45090671
Mecha Aegis when?
>>
>>45090153
No, its not hard written on the page. It's just repeatedly pointed out throughout all the designed modules and throughout the monster building sections that a weakened/low resource version of a monster is worth less and it immediately logically follows if you screw over the players the same way then the encounter is up a CR, same as if the terrain was against them etc.
>>
>>45090828
I'm pretty sure Ssalarn stuck one in Arcforge, but I could be wrong. It's been a while since I looked.
>>
>>45090801
Yes. Basically you get XP according based on both the CR and your ECL, so even if you have PCs who for one reason or another are lower level, they'll catch up eventually because they're gaining more XP from the same challenges. I think it's a more elegant solution compared to the XP requirements to level up scaling up exponentially.
>>
>>45090671
Why do wilder archetypes that trade away wild surge even exist? Its like a sorceror archetype that trades away spontaneous casting, JUST MAKE IT A WIZARD ARCHETYPE.
>>
>>45090830
The encounter being effectively higher CR is different from the party being effectively lower APL. Just because the PCs are weaker for some reason(whether attrition, being badly prepared, or just being badly optimized) doesn't mean that the encounters are of higher CR.
>>
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>>45090855
He said he would, but that was months ago.
He said it was in the works a few weeks ago.

We told him to show us what he had and we could help, after he told us setting up an archetype for Aegis is tough due to how much freedom it normally has.

But the subject was quickly changed...
>>
>>45087531
how can you be so retarded
yes, 3.5 is broken
yes, DSP material is broken
you should not use either
that's the fucking point
>>
>>45091059
Paizo material is broken too
>>
>>45091059
Though neither as broken as Pathfinder RPG Core.
>>
>>45091049
I'll send a reminder his way. We're in a bit of a bottleneck lately because we're trying to get PoW:E, Akasha, Steelforge and other stuff through layout and into PDF. So that's been the focus the past week or two.
>>
>>45091077
3.5 core is broken more than paizo core. At least paizo got rid of infinite wish loops.
>>
>>45090671
You made a stand kineticist.
I don't know how to respond to this.
>>
>>45088220

What PrC is this?
>>
>>45087464
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGaM07Pc-nI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKpp1S9JpCk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OBrWYWurU0
>>
>>45090773
The same problem Tieflings, Aasimar, Drow, and other similar races have to deal with. Dhampir have excellent flavor, and they're a personal favorite of mine simply because I love pariah races, but they are Mary Sue and special snowflake bait to the extreme.
>but they ARE special snowflakes
okay, but all adventurers are special snowflakes, including the ones that aren't, ESPECIALLY the ones that aren't. What I'm talking about specifically is the "I've had such a tragic past, woe is me, I'm going to go brood in the corner now, everyone has to treat me nice or I'm going to whine about it" type.
>>
>>45091096
>paizo got rid of infinite wish loops.
Candles of Invocation still exist.
>>
>>45090795
What about that one time he banged Android 18?

Also she's a cyborg, not an android.
>>
>>45091181
Wish can't make magic items anymore.
>>
>>45091181
Yes, but you can't use wish for magic items anymore, so you can't wish for more candles of invocations.
>>
>>45091182
>tfw level 100 fighter
>>
>>45091195
No, but you can create simulacrums that can grant wishes for free, and use one of those wishes to create a simulacrum that can grant more wishes.
>>
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Who are better pathfinder gishes?
Arcane or Divine, full- or half-casters. 1pp only
>>
>>45091224
Wishing for magic items was one of the more broken uses of wish, though.
>>
>>45090773
It's not so much dhampir as the player picking them because they were the most vampire-y race they could get away with playing. It's also partly the player causing my autism to flare.

>Extremely short, bratty Dhampir Witch that thinks she's so much better than everyone else because of her age
>is apparently focused on healing, despite the presence of an Alchemist and an inquisitor, also has moderately high CHA despite having no skills that use it
>the dhampir's player wanted to use fucking ponyfinder in a Paizo AP

>>45091165
Also this. Though I don't think they've actually done more than skim the "woe is me" part.

incidentally, every time I find out someone is a fan of mlp, their character has high CHA despite it being completely worthless to them.
>>
>>45091227
The best example of a gish is the magus, who makes excessive use of fightan magic rather than just fightan and also using magic.
>>
Does a common to other language translator exist for pathfinder? Or examples of say demonic or infernal words and their popular meanings?

I am looking for words to incorporate into my characters speech. Kinda a mix-mash of things like demonic curse words, infernal oaths, celestial praises, that sort of thing.
>>
>>45091253
>incidentally, every time I find out someone is a fan of mlp, their character has high CHA despite it being completely worthless to them.
Okay but to be fair, I don't give a fuck about MLP but I still try to keep at least neutral charisma. I sure do love being given 20 PB, and then being punished when I inevitably have to dump a fucking stat because I'm not playing a wizard.
>>
>>45091138
He called the Monk feat "Ripple"

I can't even
>>
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>>45091256
Magus is class, made to be gish. But is he better gish than other classes\combinations?
>>
>>45091346
Yes.
>>
>>45090671
>Forrest
>>45091138
>>45091325
It doesn't even make sense considering Akasha is already Ripple/Hamon with Vizier being based on Zepelli, Guru on Jonathan, Joseph and Caesar (though Sineater doesn't seem to fit) and Daevics being pseudo pillar men.
>>
>>45091283
I'm not saying "they didn't dump CHA", I myself like to avoid dumping cha and sometimes even bump it up for giggles, I'm saying "why the fuck does your witch with no social skills need 16+ CHA? You're not even utilizing UMD or leadership!"

It provides very little roleplay benefit, and almost negative mechanical benefit. I'm not going to demand people stop doing it, it just looks dumb.
>>
>>45090671
>>45091384
Woops, forgot to actually write anything in my reply to forest.
Why does Shared Surge not count as Wild Surge for the purposes of feats and prestige prereqs? I can understand Volvanic Mind with Shadow Enervation counts as Enervation would be insane but the Surge augmenting feats should work with this archetype.
>>
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What are the top (3) things I need to know about Downtime, or economics in general, to become the ultimate merchant prince?
>>
>>45091550
You can only sell what you make.

People can only buy what they can afford.

Go on my child and seek riches.
>>
>>45091550
gardens
horn of plenty
>>
>>45091384
Something tells me the name was just for the theme, since it's also a Grateful Dead reference.
>>
>>45091550
>You can only sell what you make.

But sensei, is it not possible to become wealthy through buying low and selling high, such as sending caravans from Avistan to Tian Xia and back again?

Does this also cover the production of raw goods into fine ones, such as buying raw stone and selling jewelry?
>>
is there any way to mass produce weapons with a spell? Like make a bunch of swords?
>>
>>45091897
Fabricate.
>>
>>45091897
Fabricate
>>
One day, one day... I hope for an Unchained Magus that allows me to use Spell Combat with a two-handed weapon. None of this namby-pamby one handed 'acts like two weapon fighting' bs.
>>
>>45091932
>>45091936
Fabricate only lets you make one item so it's balanced :^^^^)))))
>>
>>45091550
Access to markets where there is demand for your goods. So permanent teleportation circles are very useful for expanding your sales base once you can make that investment.

Limit your production of specific goods to prevent flooding the market and dropping prices.

Make use of local labor through out the process in different areas once their is high enough demand for non-magical goods. Amazing Tools of Manufacturer allow a group of 24 master-apprentice pairs to produce staggering amounts of mundane goods each day. Magical goods are best done via a centralized location due to lower demand.
>>
>>45091834
I'm just pointing out that Akashic Mysteries is heavily jojo inspired, i know nothing about music or kineticists except that both suck.
>>
>>45091963
Take two levels of Alchemist for Vestigial Arm?
>>
>>45091936
>>45091932
word i was looking for something like that

i'm a little annoyed that 'Create Armaments' in the new book is so shit for what it should be.

Why can i not summon swords and use telekinesis to become ARCHA
>>
>>45092021
You'll want the psychic armory soulknife for that.
>>
>>45091964
Well, it doesn't help that normal crafting is god awful.
>>
>>45091993
I would prefer to not be a mutant freak.
>>
>>45092045
i wonder if i can brew up a cool spell for it
>>
>>45092090
Sonic thrust already is a spell.
>>
>>45092057
>not being a mutant freak
Pleb detected.
>>
>>45092108
no i mean for mass producing short term weapons

Makem out of like, quicksilver and they only last for a few rounds
>>
>>45092057
Play an Ethumion with the alternate racial feature that gives you a telekinetic 3rd hand?
>>
>>45092142
but that's what psychic armory soulknife already does?
>>
>>45092157
>implying i can convince my whore of a GM to allow 3pp classes
>>
>>45091094
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/19y_V3-_cKBzTYiFwt5M3Tij7ahQoPPt9XLTE1wreV68/edit#heading=h.d6k8i1ul1jjg

Have you considered enslaving your art direction guy?
>>
>>45090671

Enrico Pucci time magician when?
>>
>>45091979

What would you consider the best markets to exploit in Golarion? I'm stuck between the Successor Kingdoms and Minkai as the best markets to acquire goods for Avistan, but there's also Qadira, Osirion and Taldor to consider.
>>
>>45092172
Oh, damn. My sympathies.

Then yeah, make a spell that 'memorizes' x number of different swords, and then when cast again, manifests them and lets you use them telekinetically for x rounds before they explode or something.

...I can't believe I'm recommending crafting a spell to duplicate a class's main feature, but here we are.
>>
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Any tips for new Pathfinder GMs?

My experience with the system is limited to a campaign that lasted about 6 sessions before it kind of petered out, but my group is wanting to give it another shot.
>>
>>45091963
Elemental Flux. Bladecaster. Bladecaster with Flux.
>>
>>45092222
welcome to my hell.
>>
>>45092227
Get away from Pathfinder while you still can.
>>
>>45091986
I'm still trying to figure out Akhasa= hamon myself.
>>
>>45092264
I would have gone 5e if we didn't already have a 5e game going on.

Players have their characters statted though, so I'm kind of obligated to see this through.
>>
My GM's doing a commoner start in a no magic setting.
The party failed at hunting a deer the healthiest of us almost died to a boar.
Then we botched heal checks and opened his wound twice.
The hunter is still alive but he's on bad terms with the pottery apprentice.

How do I use pottery in a useful way.
>>
>>45092334
make it fun

Whats the party like. Seriously. Tell us the makeup of classes and such
>>
>>45092349
take a very sharp shard of ceramic and use it to slit your own throat to escape that shit game.
>>
>>45092349

Pottery is best used for rhymes.
>>
>>45091986
>Akasha = JoJo
I don't see it.
>>
>>45092351
So far we've got a LE Grippli Investigator (though he's considering doing something else besides Investigator), a CN Tiefling Warpriest of Calistra, an LN Aasimar Wizard, and the remaining player hasn't settled on what he wants yet.

I'm glad they've picked an interesting mix of races. It's especially interesting with an Aasimar and Tiefling in the same party.
>>
>>45092563
alright you'll be fine. They're all choosing decent classes.

Shits ez.
>>
Is there any good one-size-fits-all bandaid fix to make initiators reasonable at low level? Just like a temp fix until say level 4, they're fine after.
>>
>>45092758
Don't play in rusty dagger shanktown.
Don't mix initiators with paizo martials.
>>
>>45092758
Start at level 4
>>
>>45092758
>playing earlier than level 5-6
Don't do this.
>>
>>45092758
>playing rusty dagger shanktown
y tho?
>>
>>45092758
>wanting to play rusty dagger shanktown

??
>>
>>45091963
Mindblade does that.
>>
New thread:
>>45093166
>>45093166
>>45093166
>>45093166
>>45093166
>>
Need some GM advice. My players are in between adventures, and currently spending a months worth of downtime in a major city. Since it is a Sengoku style setting, they are such things as samurai, monks, ninjas, and various themed spell casters. The kitsune arcane archer has decided to forge a katana for the ninja as a pick me up (he got his ass cursed by a witch). he has expressed a desire to visit the city foundries, which are quite famous, and would like a mini adventure based around settling some sort of dispute there, preferably with the local Kami. My only problem is that I cannot think of a proper dispute or issue between Forge spirits that could readily be solved or mitigated by a level six wizard/ranger. I'm just run out of ideas.

Tldr; I am running mini adventures for my players during their downtime. The wizard wants to get involved with forge spirits while crafting a masterworks sword. What is a problem I can have him help with, and what would be a great way to reward him? The party, especially the wizard, is severely under wealth by level.
>>
I heard WMH had an option for getting weapon training back on a fighter for if you have an archetype that trades it away.
Can anyone tell me about it or where I can find it?
Also does it work on the brawler?
>>
>>45092758
Please tell you're playing a AP
>>
>>45092294
>>45092406
Hamon is mostly in the Guru, Akasha is generally Jojo, with the Vizier being the least Jojo. Daevic is pretty much ACDC+Cars men with its shapeshifting, blood powers, focus on heavy emotion and being your own weapon. Gentle Touch simulates Hamon's devastating effect against the undead and its (generally) harmless nature against organics. The Vayist literally becomes a bola thrower who uses positioning and targeting tricks with a dizzying array of debuffs available to him through chakra disruption and stunning fist. It's as Joseph as you can get. Sineater is Jonathan with its focus on heavy defense, unarmed combat, big single attacks against abberations or undead based on emptying yourself of energy and the most jonathan thing of all, Atonement.
Akasin could be argued to be Straight or whatever he was called but i don't know much about him.

Many feats of hamon users are easily replicated in veils, with Lavawalkers Boots, Hand Cannons/Riven Darts is more or less Zepelli's wine cutter, Stormcaller's Band might as well be the various bubble abilities caesar had.

You could argue Black Templar (which is already related to vampires) is jojo themed as well with its zone of defilement not being much different to the freezing and its ability to poison someone's hamon until they "squeeze it out" but i think this one is stretching it. Circlet of Brass lets you steal laser eyes sort of, though its not a pressure cutter and Infernal Blood is obvious.

tl;dr It all falls into place when you realize Guru's Gentle Touch and derivative abilities literally work like hamon. Its not a 1 to 1 but crossover is huge.
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