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/edhg/ - MTG Commander General
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You are currently reading a thread in /tg/ - Traditional Games

Thread replies: 369
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Ya'll are lazy fucks so here's a shitty OP edition

>See what others are playing with your commander
edhrec.com

>Figure out your manabase
manabasecrafter.com

>Complaints about OP
kleenex.com
>>
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Today's Topics:

>You can only play one of your commander decks for the rest of your days. Who do you play, and why is it your favorite?

>If the "banned as general" list came back, who would you throw in there?

And my personal plug question: what am I missing in this Sidisi deck?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mimeoplasm-giggles/

Already adding in Genesis, just not in the list yet.
>>
>>45070010
>You can only play one of your commander decks for the rest of your days. Who do you play, and why is it your favorite?
One commander or one deck? If commander, Cromat, since he's a solid creature and the deck could be anything. Currently I'm playing him as voltron.
If deck, Memnarch. Artifacts and theft are fun, what more can I say?

>If the "banned as general" list came back, who would you throw in there?
Derevi.
>>
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Any really obvious thing I'm missing from my Duel Commander Ezuri list?

>inb4 Prime Time is banned
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>>45070475
Mycoloth
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>>45070530
Heeeehhh, maybe. But it's kind of durdly and slow.
>>
>>45070475
>prophet of kruphix

And here I was thinking duel commander was better balanced
>>
>>45070618
You don't untap three times before your turn. And you know, no fast mana, so you can't do as much.
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>>45070475
Cytoplast Manipulator
>>
This may sound like a stupid question, but is there any reason for the commander to be limited to just [legendary] creatures aside from fluff/tradition?

Are there any non-legendary creature or even non-creature cards that would be grossly unbalanced if allowed as a general?
>>
>>45070674
It's shit though.

>>45070530
Nevermind. Actually tested it just now, and lol. Holy shit.
>>
>>45070618
In duel commander Prophet is a five mana creature that dies to bolt. It's just not that good. I mean, it's okay, and if you get to untap with it even once it may have given you enough gas to win the game, but that's what five mana threats should do in duel commander.
>>
>>45070475
Prophet of kruphix is banned.
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>>45070865
>it's shit though
Have you even tried it? Literally drop counters on it so you have a chump blocker, then put a +1 on anything you wanna steal, and steal it. This shit isn't hard, and it's excellent for its cost.
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>>45070914
I tested it. But in a previous version of the deck which ran much less aggro and creatures. I'm going to test it again.
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>>45070010
>You can only play one of your commander decks for the rest of your days. Who do you play, and why is it your favorite?

Probably Shu Yun or Zurgo Helmsmasher. I like playing decks focused around the general, and both offer enough damage and interaction with the board to keep things interesting each time I play them.

>If the "banned as general" list came back, who would you throw in there?
I don't see enough generals to really comment on who should be banned.
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>>45070010
Derevi for sure.
I've got a friend who plays her and he's like
>it's not that bad, I'm just untapping things
but it's just such consistent value that is hardly even taxed on, considering that you can untap a mana rock or a guild karoo land you've paid for half her cost anyway. Then you get hit with a couple of evasive 1/1's and their mana position is the same as before they activated derevi but without any loss of card advantage. It just generates insane value and is hard to deal with outside of constant removal or direct resource denial which aren't necessarily decks I want to play.
I run ghost quarter and strip mine when I can but you can't kill every karoo in a 4 player game.
>>
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Hey, I recently completed my Mazirek deck, and I realized how dumb he was with two persist creatures and a free sac outlet. Anyone else accidentally make an infinite combo?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mazirek-voltron-fun-times/

>>45070010
I would probably play either Mazirek or Rith, sorry I don't have a list for him online, but a huge recommendation for most token decks is Sigil Captian, all those 1/1s just got a lot scarier. Hell Rider, two red and two generic for a 3/3 haste that deals 1 to a player when ever you declare an attacker, and Champion of Lambolt, a 1/1 for two green and a generic, a 1/1 that gets a + 1/+1 counter when a creature enters and stops your opponents from blocking with creatures with less power than her. These have won me games before
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>>45071183
>>45070914
Well, turns out I only played against Zurgo the games I drew it, so you know, it was pretty awful. And I really don't like the fact that it has to stay alive a whole turn to start doing something. AND that the creatures needs to have a counter on it. Back to Yisan or something.
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>>45071511
What kind of meta are you playing in that Xira Arien goes undeafeated?
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>>45071934
The trick is to dump the counters on her, pass, then give the +1 on the first threat to come in and immediately pay a blue and take it. Until then, she's a nice vanilla blocker that's usually buff. But hey, that's just me. Do you, anon.
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>>45071982
It's just Jund Stax.
Xira Arien is to provide card advantage when resources have been spent by the opposition.
We're in a pretty control heavy meta and stax happens to grind out slightly better.
I've also only played a half dozen games with her, so it's technically true but perhaps a bit misleading. I'll update when the time comes.
>>
>>45072063
I understand, but... I dunno, it's just... Well, I'll give it another spin, cuz I mostly win my game by stealing shit (or comboing with Sage of Hours) at critical junctures, but heh.
>>
It's one of those cards on the fence because it
>tends to draw removal
>boosts the enemy's creatures if you're stupid with it
>gives the boosted creatures back as soon as she dies
So I can see someone not adding it - it's kind of risky.
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>>45071544
You only need one. you control the triggers, so you simply have the mazirek trigger come after the creature returns with the -1/-1 counter.
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Hey guys, Narset Voltron player here. What's the best way to stop nasty sac effects from cards like Sheoldred? I'm running ~7 counterspells and 7 board wipes right now.
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>>45072601
Assault suit and token generation.
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>>45070010
Pic related for sure. It's my most powerful and most consistent deck.

>If you could ban a legendary as a commander
Purphoros.
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>>45070010
I would play Narset because you can build her in so many different ways. WUR is such a versatile color combination.

>banning a general
I really haven't played enough to hate any commander in particular. I've had trouble with Progenitus in the past but that's about as close as it gets.
>>
>>45072756

Why does purph cause so much butthurt?
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>>45073030
I dunno, you'd think someone would hate Krenko more. I know I do
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>>45073086
>Getting mad about a 3/3 with no inherent protection in the weakest colors for protection
>>
I want to start my next deck themed around metalcraft and mirrodin/artifact nonsense. I'd rather not have Blightsteel or Eldrazi as wincons, and I'm thinking Muzzio as my commander.

Thoughts?
>>
Am I the only person that thinks that New Kozilek is better than Old Kozilek?

I think that Menace and card draw is better than Annihilator.
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>>45074494
Old Kozilek had much better card draw though. Dumping him on the battlefield and grabbing 4 cards while leaving a 12/12 annihilator 4 monster to deal with is a huge threat. Just kinda looms there, like an Eldrazi Titan is supposed to do.
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>>45074439
Jor Kadeen is absurd aggro
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>>45074439
Jor Kadeen my nigga.
Run swords, myr battlesphere, some good artifact ramp and the thopter producers from origins.
Pia and Kiran Nalaan almost turn on metalcraft on their own and 4/1 flyers is nothing to be sneezed at.
>>
Currently building Thelon fungus for casual EDH play. Any advice on stuff to include?
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>>45075473
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mushrums/
What I have so far. Havent bothered with lands yet.
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>>45075473
Proliferate is your friend.
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>>45071511
Please post sydri list, I really like her design and currently play glissa eggs/stax
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>>45073030
>a god so its indestructible
>doesn't need to be a creature to be useful
>costs only 4 mana
Not to mention its more or less the same deck everytime.

"I'm going to pump out tokens. If the burn damage doesn't kill you, they will."

And since Purph is the commander, he's going to come back repeatedly of course. So spot removal isn't even a guarantee. Even as 1 o the 99 he's retarded.
>>
>>45076101
>Kruphix facilitates bullshit
>Karametra facilitates bullshit
>Purphoros does damage in monored
>>
>>45076101
>hurr durr this deck plays the same way everytime

It's called a strategy dillweed. If you want to play different strategies build different decks
>>
Finish the sentence /EDH/

What the fuck was Wizards thinking when they made *insert card name here*
>>
>>45076581
What the fuck was Wizards thinking when they made Island
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>>45070010
Marath. It's my main deck, and I love it because it's versatile without being fully degenerate.
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>>45076581
Narset hexproof.
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>>45070911
Idiot.
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>>45076581
Derevi.
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>>45074640
I just built a colorless deck that could easily use any of the Titans, and honestly New Koz is the best fit.

>Dump hand full of mana rocks
>cast Koz
>Full hand with mana rocks and shit
>counter shit with mana rocks
>commander dies
>repeat

It isn't difficult to draw a full grip with New Koz. I think the old Titans are better in the 99 because of the shuffle clause. The annihilater is nice, which is a good reason to use one of the older ones at the head, but I think having the utility of the new ones outweighs that.
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>>45076171
Karametra is pretty underwhelming most of the time to be honest. its a excellent good stuff general but lacks focus really
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>>45073030
I have to partially agree with >>45076101

Overall I don't think Purph is a huge problem, but he's annoying as fuck. I don't think he's ban worthy, but he is definitely on my list of "I would rather not deal with this bullshit." I think the main qualm is that if the Purph player is smart they sit on a indestructible enchantment that is always available and just pokes the shit out of you, which is really hard to deal with. Again it's not broken, and I don't personally believe it to be bannable, but it is irritating to face.
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>>45076736
I recently put together a marath list. I went for general token strat than anything combo based. Only noticed a nice interaction with new Omnath since Marath and his tokens are elementals.
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>>45078436
I made the switch from captain sisay to Karametra and don't regret it. Its weenies and landfall goodstuff. Lategame feels like a combo deck (chaining landfall triggers to draw cards make tokens)

Of course your mileage may vary, I'm playing in a pretty casual meta
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>>45076736
>degenerate
But are you fully retarded?
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>>45079259
Just a buzzword around here, you'll get used to it.
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Eldrazi or artifact themed? Now that a colorless manabase won't be a nightmare to assemble, I'm looking into building a colorless deck. The kinds of interactions you can do with Karn look fun but Kozilek's counter ability looks pretty sweet too, not to mention I do have a fair bit of the new eldrazi stuff. Opinions?
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>>45070010
>You can only play one of your commander decks for the rest of your days. Who do you play, and why is it your favorite?
Jhoira. The deck is just crazy and I'm always finding new and crazy synergies and half assed combos. It's not my favourite, but every game feels different so it wins for sheer longevity.

>If the "banned as general" list came back, who would you throw in there?
Derevi. Powerful as hell and unfun as hell to play against is a horrible combo.
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>>45070010

Only one commander? That is difficult, but right now I think I'd go with Liliana. I've been having so much fun with her because unlike most mono black decks, she doesn't win with combos or big black mana. In fact, there isn't a single infinite combo in the deck, and I'm kind of proud of that. It's interactive with other decks and has a lot of internal synergy as well. Stupid shit like sacrificing Viscera Seer to itself to flip Liliana, then bringing the Seer back with a -1 makes me smile.

As for the banned as a commander, I think Derevi, Braids, and Purph could easily sit there.
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>>45076033
This is a slightly old list but I'm forever taking cards out and putting them back in without updating my online stuff.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/sydri-of-the-confusing-convoluted-combo-deck/
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>>45070475
>prophet
Bad news guy...

And you have Sage of Hours, you don't need anything else
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>>45070010
>If I could only play one
Nekusar. Consistent, strong, but with a clear-ish weakness so I wouldn't have to hear casuals whine forever.

>Banned as general
Derevi because who the actual fuck made that card? She facilitates way too much bullshit AND bypasses the commander tax.

Prossh because the combo potential with him is just too much. Not to mention said combo potential has little to no actual counterplay.

>If you get rid of Prossh I just sack the tokens for shenanigans and get more later because hurr on cast durr
>If you ignore Prossh to deal with the shenanigans I just feed the tokens to her and one shot you
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>>45079395
Why not mash them together and make a coin flip to decide who's at the helm?
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>>45070010
>You can only play one of your commander decks for the rest of your days. Who do you play, and why is it your favorite?
Thromok. Go big or go home.

>If the "banned as general" list came back, who would you throw in there?
Derevi.
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>>45078859
>play New Omnath with Marath out
>trigger his ability for X=0 infinite times

Wow, how did I miss that?
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>>45081086
because x can't be 0
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>>45080775
DUEL COMMANDER
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>>45070475
I've gotten great use out of Master of the Wild Hunt. Free experience plus free fight, which is good. Especially with how big you can make wolves. But I put a premium on reusable removal, as I run Newzuri in a four-man pod and removal can run dry pretty quick if you aren't careful.
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>>45081086
>trigger his ability for X=0 infinite times
They errata'd that the day he was released. X can't be zero, check his gatherer page.
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>>45072067
>>45071511
Xira decklist please? Been looking at her as a general for a "serious table" jund deck.
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So is pic related really as simple to play as "sac shit and one shot an opponent"? What are some staples and tips for building ?
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>>45082292

Grave Pact, Goblin Bombardment, Doubling Season...

Fuck man the deck just plays itself it's so boring
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>>45081040
I assumed having them both would pull the deck in too many different directions but the more I think about it, the more feasible it seems.
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>>45082324
Purphorus, and i personally like running blood artist/zulaport cutthroat

you could go bold and run in the web of war and ogre battledriver but most of the time it's unnecessary
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>>45070010
>You can only play one of your commander decks for the rest of your days. Who do you play, and why is it your favorite?
Aurelia. It's probably my blandest deck mechanically but for some reason, playing it just never gets old.
>If the "banned as general" list came back, who would you throw in there?
You know exactly what shitbird is going on that list. Please Sheldon, free us from that fucking shitbird.
>>
>>45082292
Coat of arms is pretty much the go to card as well. And Mana Echoes with something like Fireball, you can one shot people pretty easily with both of those methods.
>>
>>45082292

goblin bombardment
xenagod
fecundity

prossh is the strongest commander in multiplayer in my opinion

derevi stax and others can be more oppressive 1v1, but in multiplayer, midrange combo prossh is an absolute monster
>>
>Read up on Lin Sivvi and start building up for it
>Deck is complete and all that's needed is my Commander
>LGS doesn't have Lin Sivvi
>Check PucaTrade
>Trade Rate: On average this card is traded 1.3 times per month
>Don't have access to credit/debit card currently to buy from TCGPlayer

Fucking kill me please.
>>
>>45070475
Saprazzan Heir is fun secret tech in my Newzuri. Make it huge, they either block it and you score sweet card advantage or they let it through and take a big hit. Worst-case-scenario, it eats a removal spell and clears the way for more serious threats. Not bad for a 2cmc investment.
>>
>>45082898
Bruh, how is the actual commander something you don't pick up asap, if not first? Sorry to hear that tho
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>>45082898
What's your mailing address, anon? I'll buy it for you.
>>
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What would be a good commander for RWB/Mardu Goodstuff?

I was thinking either Zurgo or that Angel that can spit out Angels, Demons and Dragons.
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>>45082898
Lin Sivi is honestly one of my favorite EDH decks I've ever made. It can do a lot of work, and most people underestimate it because it's mono white. Good taste sir.

>>45082964
Good on you anon, I wanted to do this but my cards have been acting up recently.
>>
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Is there anyone at all interested in building Linvala? I guess I like the idea of a commander who you don't have to build around. Who is an emergency button rather than a focus.
>>
>>45083154
"Mono white goodstuff" sounds about as weak as a deck idea can get. Could be fun, though.
>>
i want to build a phyrexian theme edh, but dont have any ideas on colors and who will lead. thoughts?
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>>45083154

I'm going to be rebuilding Radiant. She'll go in there, that's about it.
>>
>>45083186
What do you mean by weak? Boring or actually weak? I like mini white.
>>
Anyone here watch StarCityJews' Commander VS stuff? Picked it up recently, and it's some great shit to have going on on my second screen while I code or blank cards for proxies.

>Who do you like most as a deckbuilder?

>How frequently do you watch?

>Would you be interested in a series where the opponents rotate, mostly with games from the local university's Magic club? (faggoty plug here, sorry yo).
>>
>>45083027
Kaalia isn't an angel.
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>>45083190
Volrath, monoblack, lots of recursion, go for Voltron damage.
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>>45083305
i like stephen green. mostly because as a large southern man in a room of manlets and nerds who can only mock my accent because there's nothing else to insult, I can relate to him.

I watched every week when they were doing it weekly, idk if they've started up again yet tho. haven't watched in a while

depends on the set up, there's so much going on at the commander table it's hard to capture it all with one camera in a neat and concise way. the SCG series just barely pulls it off, and sometimes I wish I could just zoom in a bit to read some of the cards.
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>>45082292
>>45082849
>>45082818
>>45082324
>not just putting in Food Chain and a ton of tutors, mana dorks, artifact ramp, and reanimation or recursion
If you really want to make Prossh as strong as it can be, you have to build him Food Chain Prossh.

It wins T3-4, is pretty resilient, and plays in strong disruption colors.

It's not exactly fun for more casual metas, but in a top-tier meta, it's a pretty solid deck. Definitely beats the gimmicky 5C Hermit Druid which is the boogeyman of the format despite being a paper tiger. I'd like to play against it more with my own strong lists.
>>
>>45083305
Actually started watching it yesterday.
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>>45083305
I think it's ok now, but it was better with David McDarby.
>>
I have complete edh block. I have only omnath of rage built, and beyond that I'm stuck. I think about it all day at work and come up with nothing.
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>>45084230
Sygg River Guide.

DO IT
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>>45084230
Mageta
>>
Anyone know know of any artifact tutors in mono red? Other then based hoarding dragon
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>>45084387
Gamble
Planar Portal
Kuldotha Forgemaster
Eye of Ugin for artifact creatures
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>>45084433
>>45084387
Ring of Three Wishes > Planar Portal

Never ended up tutoring 3 times without winning.
>>
Holy fuck why is Crucible Suddenly $70?
>>
I play a degenerate The Mimeoplasm deck capable of T1 kills (In 1v1) and basically wins by turn 5 every game.

But my meta is SUPER cut throat competitive. Ad Nauseum Storm, R/B Storm, Elfball Combo, Food Chain Combo, Stax, etc. all running around my store.

It started a few years back when the LGS began hosting EDH tournaments. I showed up with a Dredge/Reanimator list and forced everyone to step their game up.
>>
>>45086017
The currently popularity of Modern - or rather, buying Modern cards - hurts a hell of a lot. Wish I'd gotten a lot more back in December than I did.
>>
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/24-01-16-karador-edh/

Should I replace Necrotic Ooze with Nighthowler? I don't really have the activated abilities to justify it and I can't really count on my opponents having them either.
>>
>>45084278
Oh fuck, I tried to make a deck with him.
3/10
>>
>>45086133
>ruined his own meta

Congratulations, I guess?
>>
I was thinking of making a morph deck using Roon of the Hidden Realm, would that be a fun commander to do it with? Would his ability allow me to flip morph cards over or would they come back as morphed 2/2 creatures still?
>>
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Would this be a good card for commander?
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>>45086821
In a serious deck?

It's not too bad but you'll quickly notice the best cards in the format dump insane value in the form of multiple large creatures from a single non-creature source. The ability to steal a single creature especially in a multiplayer format isn't all that great.

In the silliest jank one man can possibly manage?

All those {U} Something something. Untap target creature spells read "Destroy target creature." which is pretty funny.
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>>45086929
Thanks for the reply!
Me and my friends dont take things too seriously, so its for a annoying fun deck idea.

More to piss people off than to actually win.
>>
>>45086929
I also really like that idea of getting untap cards to spam kill big creatures.

Since shes 3 different colors it gives me a lot of choices.
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>>45086968
Stealing creatures is among the best hate fuel, especially in casual circles.

>>45086990
It's unfortunate that black has almost nothing, but white has a bunch of blanket untap all creatures you control effects that I use in Noyan Dar.
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>>45079395
I've built a colorless Kozi deck that's been performing surprisingly well, better than I thought it would.

http://playtest.tappedout.net/kozilek-and-the-funky-bunch/

No infinite combos, just a little bit of synergy and a whole lot of smashing faces with big creatures.

Thoughts?
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>>45087016
Fuck, wrong link.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/kozilek-and-the-funky-bunch/
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>>45086990
Pemmins Aura and Freed From the Real would be 'U: destroy target creature' on her. Slap on some infinite mana and you got free constant board wipes. Or, just have a Phyrexian Altar out so you can steal a creature, sac it for U, untap her, go again. All at instant speed and Phyrexian Altar doesnt use the stack cause its a mana ability.
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>>45087016
What could you possibly need Chromatic Lantern for?
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>>45087054
It's a mana rock and there's a little bit of chaos in the meta at my shop, which could land me with creatures with activated abilities.

There is also the off chance that I manage to restart a game with Karn. It's in there as a "Just in case"
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>>45087071
That's dumb fuck you.
>>
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>>45072853
This. I would only keep my Narset deck because WUR is my favorite color combo. The deck does the things I enjoy the most: Board control, some nice artifact for a stax effect, and some MLD.

>banning a general
I don't think I would add one to the list. If I had to, it would probably be Deveri
>>
>>45087079
Hey, every mana rock helps accelerate.
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>>45083254
Mono white in EDH suffers from the 2 most important things in this formate. Ramp and card draw.
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>>45086929
Freed from the Real, friend. As your commander, she's a better, faster machine gun of murder than some crap like Visara the Dreadful or Mangara of Corondor and gives you access to three colors to boot. Yeah she's a 1/1 but the way removal goes in EDH people don't run much that can kill 1 toughness but not 5 so she's not really any more fragile than any other commander without hexproof or indestructible. Run her with Tainted Aether, Smokestack, Descent into Madness, Rule of Law/Arcane Lab, and so on. Cripple your opponent's ability to fight back. You're in white-blue-black, you've got the tech.
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>>45072853
>narset is his commander and waifu
Autism
u
t
i
s
m
She's like sonic the hedgehog for magic. You like her and you're probably chrischan tier
>>
>>45087102
>>45087040
I love you guys.
I was just on mtginfo looking for good combos.
This will definitely make it easier for me to build a deck around.
>>
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>playing last night
>me and the guy sitting next to me get beaten twice by the two guys on the other side of the table
>they suggest a couple two headed giant games, surely confident they can crush us
>guy next to me smiles as i suggest he pull out his tuned 1v1 Radha deck
>pull out my Maelstrom Wanderer deck
>he destroys lands and spot kills creatures as I Dack Fayden a Nevinyrral's Disk and we pound their faces in
>they are visibly upset as we start game 2
>more of the same, he denies the guy running RUG his blue mana sources as I cascade into BBE off of Wanderer and slap down a Thassa
>they are almost visibly shaking as one of the guys pouts and asks me why I haven't stopped playing Wanderer
>smile and pull out Meren
>we crush them for two more games as they aren't allowed to keep creatures on the board and I drain them with Gray Merchant
>all confidence in their game is lost
>too salty to even look at us

Felt like justice small sons.
>>
>>45087350
>tfw Anafenza gets countered 3 times by New Kozilek
>Cyclonic Rift hits the board once she sticks
>play her from hand, she gets countered
>>
>>45087350
Maybe its just me, but I usually dont feel this good if I stomp someone that much. Its no fun if theres not a bit of back and forth or a fight so it just feels like a shitty victory even if it is a victory.

Stomping someone when theyre being smug is fun. Like once, maybe twice, but not four times in a row.
>>
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>>45086176
>be a poorfag
>want more cards
>can't afford them
>mfw watching more and more cards steadily climb even higher in price

I can't wait to have an income
>>
>>45083154
im throwing her in my Treva deck for a test.
Might be ok...
its a deck that likes warm bodies.
Side note, new avacyn works well in that deck so shitty will find homes in at least SOME deck.
>>
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>>45086821
I also found some fun cards to screw with emrakul.
>>
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>>45088397
>Be me in High school
>Plan to use money from summer job to buy snapcasters
>price triples
>Oh well, I'll just buy some Aurok champions for my modern deck
>Triples as well
>Ok, will buy fetches instead, they are cheap
>Fetches double in price
>Fine, I'll just buy some other staples I have been looking for, like blood moon, crucible of worlds, some elves for my EDH deck and...
>All prices double or triple
>mrw
>>
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Pic related was my first general.
Now I got like 15 edh decks.
>>
>>45088511
>Fun cards to screw with a banned card
>>
>>45077835
I run ulamog (old one) as my commander, and in 1v1 he's impossibly strong. Anything more than 1v1 I'm trying running new koz as the commander simply because he's less threatening than old ulamog. Old ulamog would generally be focused in 3-4 player matches by turn 4, due to the sheer amount of mana rocks in the deck. The plan is to simply play my hand by turn 4 or 5, cast new koz (doesn't matter if resolves or not) draw 7, hopefully pull at least 1 other huge eldrazi in that pull and splurge the rest of my hand onthe field to rinse and repeat casting koz forthe draw and pressure. From what I've found, new koz is simply less threatening to a moderately competitive playgroup compared to old ulamog. (Keep in mind regardless which you are running, an eldrazi titan in the command zone is nervewracking)
>>
>>45089165

That's sort of my thoughts, too. However. Newlamog is very tempting just to have the removal there. We'll see how it goes. I do like being able to use Bauble and friends now.

How do you feel about surveyors scope? I'm on the fence about it, but early on, it seems frighteningly good at powering out a titan, even in a 4 player game.
>>
>>45084230
D O I T
O

I
T
>>
>>45087016
SCORCHED RUINS
>>
>>45083190
Sheoldred, go stax and watch everyone cry.
>>
>>45089208
The scope seems solid, I'm not running it, but if you cut a 3 drop mana rock for it you'd be in good shape. Some Allstars in my ula deck would be blinkmoth urn, venifact bottle, metalworker, and I personally love scorched ruins, even though it's dangerous. And don't fall into the newlamog trap unless you play a lot of 1v1. He's OK In multiplayer, much better in 1v1. Old ulamog can easily cripple the player winning for 3 or 4 turns in a 4 player match simply because annihilator 4 two turns in a row plus his size is crazy difficult to handle unlessyou are a token deck. If you take anything away from me, put my OG WORLDSLAYER in the deck if you run old ula. That shit makes the table wince every time it gets equipped to ula as he swings at the player with the least Permanents.
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I run Xiahou Dun stax with a small voltron package. Dooper kool
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Anyone here play this as a commander , if so is it just bigblueandredspells.dek or is there sweet tech you have that you think is pretty cool?
>>
>>45089503
My friend runs her, bigredspells withXcmc.deck
>>
>>45087844

I guess it's one of those things where you have to know the playgroup to understand why I was so smug.

They literally thought we were going to get stomped because they won FFAs in which they assisted each other the entire time and got insanely butt devastated when we worked together and shitstomped them.

One guy even said 'Wow anon why don't you just play his deck!' to me. About my THG partner.
>>
>>45070475
Simic Charm is a very versatile card that's useful nearly every game , i would recommend it to any u/g deck , the hexproof has save me many a time
>>
>>45083305
I really don't like how its setup and the atmosphere now , it used to feel more fun with Danny west and David McDarby , like they were there because they wanted to be and they got on really well , the new guys just don't capture the spirit of the format for me , like how the old pair used to have jokes and there was a back and forth going in every episode with inside jokes and shit , now it just feels that the players are mainly playing to win or to spite each other , might just be me who sees it like that though
>>
>>45086669
this , also fuck edh tournaments unless its french rules , everyone just shows up with some lame combo deck since there is a prize on the line, i've seen people play exarch twin at an edh fnm on turn 4 , thats just not what the formats about , at least in my opinion
>>
>>45087185
You could also use crab umbra , a bit more expensive to use the untap but has the added bonus of totem armor which is never a bad thing
>>
Guys, I usually play with 3 other people and games seem to go on forever because the table gets wiped every fucking time. How can I punish them? I was thinking of working with a Red commander.
>>
I have a copy of Imperial Seal. Am I a dick for using it? Would I be a dick if I got a proxy of it and played with the proxy?
>>
>>45090357
You want games to go fast?

Heartless Hidetsugu.
>>
>>45089431

I still need to get a Xiahou for Liliana. Maybe it'll be my next "big" purchase. My last purchase was Newzilek, Diabolic Intent, and a bunch of Warping Wails.

>>45089384

Do you use Spatial Contortion? I threw it in because it's a quick and dirty bit of spot removal for annoyances like Animar.
>>
>>45090388
That's mono red, so it sorta sucks. It would punish them for dragging the games, though. Maybe add it to the 99?
>>
>>45090428
What colors are you looking for?
What kind of punishment do you want to hand out?
What's your play style?
>>
Any cool new tech for Daretti out of OGW?

I keep stopping on good value cards like Thought-Knot Seer, getting excited, then immediately remembering it's not an artifact.
>>
>>45090357
Daretti is good if you want to actually punish their boardwipes. Purph is even better if you want to end the game quicker.
>>
>>45090452
I was thinking of not using Blue, and maybe not Black, but I'm fine with it if it can't be avoided.
I mostly play long games, with a combo or two to end it if necessary. A counter or two to not let stupid bullshit enter the table. I have Sharuum, Mimeoplasm, Ghave and Jalira as my decks. It's kind of my fault the table gets wiped so much ;_;

I want to punish them for cleaning the table all the time, every turn it's Wrath, Oblivion, Cometstorm, Innundate, things like that. Seriously, most games end with recursion + Windfall effects from Mimeoplasm.
>>
>>45090428
Non mono red? Then go Zurgo or Tariel and throw in academy rector with havoc festival too
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>>45090547
Have you considered just trying to beat them at their own game?

Look into Oloro Pillow Fort
>>
>>45090570
Zurgo is 99wraths.dec, that's exactly what I DON'T want. Tariel could be interesting, but she doesn't really punish a lot of wrath effects.
>>
>>45090393
Get the shiny judge foil which is much cheaper than the P3K. He is totally worth it, being able to recur things like Innocent blood, barter in blood or (specially) Living Death is really fun and effective. Also things like, Tutors, Temporal Extortion, and Praetor's Grasp (Stealing someone else Coffers is huge).
>>
>>45090357

Go creatureless nigga

Easiest way to shit on a wrath obsessed metagame
>>
>>45090357
Play Narset. She lives everything.

>>45090367
I want an Imperial Seal. How did you get one?
>>
>>45090367

I don't think so

It's actually a perk to playing with you if anything, get to see a super rare or two

I can't say the same about every expensive card (fuck mana drain) but imperial seal is fine, it has cool art and its from a cool set

I'd totally let you proxy it to use in multiple decks at once
>>
>>45089431
>Xiahou Dun
best black good stuff mander out there.
and people still run erabos tisk tisk.
also that alter is goooood
>>
I was taking a look at legendaries. Rakdos sounds interesting because he can cheat big creatures on the table while others ramp, Hidetsugu is interesting since he can force 20+ damage when he taps the first time, and there's also Kaervek to deal some damage if they cast a wrath effect.

>>45090715
Wouldn't that be a combo deck?

>>45090603
I don't want to drag games even more, and it uses the 3 colors I use in all my decks.
>>
>>45089503

My friend just takes all the turns ever

Reiterate on time stretch and other shit like that
>>
>>45088511
>>45086968
You think my friends care if hes banned when playing for shits?
>>
>>45070010
>Only one commander
Shit, I don't know. Most of the fun for me comes in building janky as fuck commander decks and testing them, not repeatedly playing. Maybe this is because I have to work during my LGS's EDH night, but whatever.

>Banned as commander
Derevi in a heartbeat. Other commanders can be dealt with, and become harder to cast for being dealt with. Prossh is a bitch, but all you need to do is wipe; Narset's hexproof, but there are ways to get around that; even Purphoros can be outdone with enough removal. Derevi doesn't give a shit about how many times you remove it, and it's constant value whenever you play it. Without tuck, there's no real way to check it. THAT is why it is terrible.
>>
>>45090786

Xiahou dun is good but not as good as Erebos, sorry friend
>>
>>45083190
Sheoldred, Whispering One.
Watch casuals cry a salty river
????
Profit
>>
>>45090792

Would a creatureless deck be a combo deck? I guess so

Every deck is a combo deck or a bad deck

Not every combo is infinite, but if you don't have some sort of synergy of cards that wins you the game, your deck blows
>>
>>45090851
>you now wonder why the fuck they changed the fuck rule
>>
>>45090393
I would, but personally not a huge fan of the card. I feel like it wastes a spot in the deck. If I want something gone I'll just ramp into an ulamog or all is dust
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>>45090905
*tuck

Fucking auto correct.
>>
>>45090609
Mageta the lion
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>>45090901
Alright. What do you suggest then? A creatureless commander sounds pretty interesting.

>>45090939
p-please
>>
>>45084230
Keranos. Tell me how it goes. Build cantrips.dek and ping the shit out of everything. Isn't there something that gives you stuff for casting spells under a certain cost in UR? I could be hallucinating, but...
>>
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>>45090792
What about Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre as the commander? Indestructible and Annihilator seem good for a wrath heavy playgroup. Purphoros, God of the Forge seems like a good option too. Or Avacyn, Angel of Hope.

>>45090786
You know it my nig. He is so underrated.
>>
>>45089235
Lord is a legit badass commander. Cheap regeneration is good survivability, and he's in good colors for the control elements needed to get that 10 power for 4 mana across the table. Having to sac two creatures hurts, but you're in black you can work something out I'm sure.

Don't get me wrong, he's not top tier but he can still be hellua fun.

Pro tips: Ways to increase his power by 1 so he 2-shots
Ways to give him double strike for the 1-shot
Ways to give him haste.
Sleep/Turnabout/Cryptic Command
>>
>>45090388
>>45090428

Hidetsugu + Furnace of Rath = Even life totals are dead.
Ping effects = Evens/odds are yours to command (at least until you resolve Furnace)
>>
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>>45090973
His "opponent draws 2" clause is also really effective for politics and alliances.

>>45090871
>mfw
>>
>>45090949
Child of alara will set those fuckers in place
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>>45090357
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mogis-full-life-consequences/ This is a prototype list for my "fuck you" Mogis deck before I tuned it a little bit. It makes games pretty quick. It's also relatively fair and can be low powered if you ignore tutoring for Havoc Fest/Wound Reflection


On another note, I need critique for my Boatmmander deck. -1/-1 and charge counter theme. Any auto includes that I'm missing?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/im-on-a-boat-2/
>>
>>45090765
I traded into it years ago.

>>45090776
Would you change your mind knowing what deck I'm playing it in?

Help me cut 4 from the list.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/oloro-the-lazy-dick/

Don't know if I should just cut 4 basics, or cut some enchants. Would very much appreciate help.
>>
>>45090792
For real, run a god. I'd say erebos/ or selesnya one
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>>45091028
Lifelink is really good with him too and Grafted Exoskeleton for the kamikaze kill (Unless you have a Platinum Angel)
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>>45091209
Did someone say platinum angel
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>>45090905
I never wondered that, I always knew why: because the RC is a bunch of retards who can't deal with interaction and just want everyone to be able to masturbate on the table in their EDH hugbox.
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>>45091226
that hurts my heart
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>>45091226
>>
>>45090963
>>45091028
I'm really considering one of these two, or...

>>45091170
>>45091198
One of these. Thanks for the help guys!
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>>45091246
The repair job will hurt it more.
I bought it for .99c, decided to use my girlfriends paints to "fix" it.

The look on the opponents faces when this fucking plat angel is keeping my ulamog deck alive well under 0 life.
>>
>>45090707

Absolutely. My deck is more toolbox, but it brings back tutors, is extra protection for Corpse Dance, brings back enchantments, ect.

>>45090922
Well, sure. Sometimes you really need a cheap early kill spell, though. That's a lesson I learned a long time ago in my meta.
>>
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>>45091299
Your call man! Whatever happens, best of luck with your colorless deck! Don't forget worldslayer
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>>45091282
You even rewrote the flavor text, that's true dedication right there 10/10
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>>45091244
>waaahhh I blame casuals!

Some interactions are bullshit and you know it.
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>>45091396
Here's another shot of it. And yeah, I thought it deserved the "immortal" treatment. Thanks man ! It doesn't get many compliments haha
>>
>>45091441
Yeah, like the interaction where you remove the Prossh or Derevi or Maelstrom Wanderer and it only ends up helping your opponent because they're more than happy to recast it every time.

The removal of tuck dissuades interacting with enemy commanders and just makes goldfish strategies even better: if interacting isn't beneficial enough, you're incentivized to just be bigger or faster than your opponents. Games become masturbatory.
>>
>>45091244
If you care so much about getting rid of a commander permanently then do this

>gain control of your victim commander of choice.
>cast a creature with phasing.
>make a token copy of your creature with phasing, or enchant a token with [[Vanishing]].
>Cast [[Liquimetal Coating]] to make the commander an artifact, if it isn't already, and something like [[Song of the Dryads]] to make it a non-creature. (be sure to make it an artifact last, so that other type-changing effects don't override it).
>Cast [[Bludgeon Brawl]] to turn that artifact into an Equipment.
>Attach the Legendary Artifact to your token with phasing.
>Let the token phase out.

When the a creature phases out, all Auras, Equipment, etc. attached to it phase out as well. Also, when a token phases out, it vanished. Normally, permanents attached to phased-out creatures phase back in when the creature does. But the token is gone and never phases in.
>>
>>45091562
Instead of assembling all that shit, I could just assemble a combo and win.
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>>45091614
thus making the necessity of tucking a commander pointless anyways.
>>
>>45091631
That's some real retarded "logic" you have there.
>>
>>45091562
how about instead you just mindslaver your opponent then just hit the commander with an exile effect and choose not to use the replacement to command zone?
>>
>>45091282
That's not even the worst looking alter I've seen. Good for you.
>>
>>45091372
If one of the Ulas were my commander, then yea, I totally would. As it stands, I don't think I will. Maybe.
>>
When you're starting to spend 8+ mana and multiple cards to find permanent answers to commanders, it sort of becomes obvious that trying to permanently answer commanders is no longer worthwhile. Just go bigger. Play more cards and bigger threats and flashier combos. Enjoy your battlecruiser Magic where everyone gets to play their deck to full capacity with no restraint and without ever playing around anything, and if you try to interact with your opponents, you're the bad guy.

Or just play MLD, but that is also badwrongfun apparently.
>>
>>45091735

Just because trying to permanently remove commanders is a losing battle doesn't mean interaction is gone, quite the opposite if your commander facilitates interaction
>>
>>45091667
k how so? If you are assembling a combo in a competitive environment as fast as you can tucking their commander would only slow you down.
>>
>>45091713
Hey thanks man! My girlfriend does alters, so my one looks like shit in comparison. Sorry for Tumblr link and shameless plug.
>>
>>45091769
Interaction isn't gone, it just got worse, and it's going to be a losing proposition in many matchups (let me know how the game goes when you try to counter / remove a Maelstrom Wanderer every turn or when you repeatedly blow removal on Derevi). Thus, you're incentivized to fine tune your own game plan and play a more goldfish-like strategy while only keeping cheap removal and answers as "panic buttons".

Interaction got worse in the format with the removal of tuck and there is objectively, literally, no denying that.
>>
>>45091733
Try it once in sideboard. Once it goes off you'll never take it out.
>>
>>45091802
That's... Kind of awesome, I'm digging it. I would be curious to see more of her work.

Although I'm curious why you didn't just have HER paint your plat angel to fix it up.
>>
>>45091801
How can you even be this dense. First, no one said anything about competitive environments, stop moving the goalposts. Second, the entire fucking issue is that people are more drawn to goldfish combo decks since blowing removal on enemy commanders is a losing proposition if the game goes long, particularly against commanders that provide value on cast. Can you follow this? If tuck doesn't work, you play a strategy that doesn't lean on tucking. Your answer to that is "Well if you're playing that strategy then why do you need to tuck hurr durr". GENIUS.
>>
>>45091850
She was disgusted at the angel haha, and i wantedit to be my "project". Well you can follow the link I'll post to her Tumblr if you'd like. She's currently working on a melek commission, and she has a person that wants dictate of erebos extended. Her Tumblr is: www.customcrystalcrafts.tumblr.com
She's pretty new in the extended borders industry, but is having a lot of fun doing her best and getting compliments.
>>
>>45091942
>haha
>>
>>45091850
I'm on mobile, sorry if my link doesn't bring you there. Type what she watermarked at the bottom of her extended borders in and you should get there :)
>>
>>45091976
I know I know, "haha". I'm a troglodyte what do you want from me
>>
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>>45091874
First, you seem upset. Secondly, It's not that much of an issue, if the game goes that long and they are still able to cast their "goldfish" commander then you deserve to lose. "If tuck doesn't work, you play a strategy that doesn't lean on tucking" then fucking do so
>>
>>45092043
You're missing the point pretty fucking hard here. If interaction gets worse, formats get less interactive. It's science. That's how it works, no opinions involved.

People are decrying that EDH got less interactive with the removal of tuck. If you like uninteractive games of battlecruiser Magic, or goldfish combo racing, then good for you, the RC is on your side, you win. You are exactly the type of casual the RC likes to cater to, you can be proud of yourself, but don't gloat about it.
>>
>>45083305
I was watching for a while, but I would turn it off every time they made some critically retarded game state or rule error that fucked up how the game was supposed to progress. After realizing that I had never watched a full game I just gave up. Same reason I stopped watching Marshall Sutcliffe draft on CFB, just too frustrating to watch someone simultaneously opinionated and terrible.
>>
>>45092178
part of the fun is insulting them for their mistakes in the comments.
>>
>>45092178
Danny West and David McDarby didn't fuck up nearly as often as the new crew, their games were actually interesting.

Whereas I still can't get over Stephen Green losing a game he would have won easily had he just fucking read what his own Steel Hellkite does.
>>
>>45087093
White has Land Tax, three creatures that can tutor lands, and that sorcery from the previous commander that lets you tutor for plains.
>>
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>>45092099
Tucking commanders made games very uninteractive, EDH is a format where the commander, while not always, is the center piece of the deck. If you are in colors like red then good fucking luck having an answer to a tuck spell. "You are exactly the type of casual the RC likes to cater to" that's exactly why I mentioned the competitive environment in the comboing out comment, anyways since you are a hardcore pro-tour mlg pro and the change of tucking made it that much harder for you to win then you should just stop playing edh and stick to other sanctioned formats.
>>
>>45091813

I Can see why you think it's so simple

But for me, when I'm playing Azami, the fact that people can't permanently tuck her means I am more likely to have her available, which means more resources in hand which means more interaction from me

I would never try to interact with maelstrom wanderer himself, I'd just focus on drawing board wipes for the situation he creates

Derevi can't be countered so I focus on countering the things that will truly end the game with Derevi like winter orb
>>
>>45092275
I don't think he was saying that white had no ramp and draw, he was just saying that the color sucks at it. Which it does. It's not the worst when it comes to either of these things but the combo of being sort of bad in both makes it so that monowhite struggles in the format. It has excellent answers however so that makes it a fantastic support color, and plenty of MLD which is clean healthy fun for the whole family.
>>
>>45087093
In a wenie voltron deck you have mentor of the meek, and puresteel paladin. Plus equipment tutors.
>>
>>45092281
>interacting made games uninteractive
You're going to have to explain that to me. Did you just stop playing when your commander got tucked? Is that the issue here?
>>
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>>45070010
>You can only play one of your commander decks for the rest of your days. Who do you play, and why is it your favorite?
In all honesty, probably Brago. Deck's pretty complicated and fun as all hell to play.
>If the "banned as general" list came back, who would you throw in there?
Derevi, Oloro
>>
>>45092319

Mono white can be really good you just have to base your whole deck around ameliorating the lack of ramp and card draw, whereas other color combinations just build themselves
>>
>>45088397
There are budget decks that are quite effective. My Bruna deck is fantastic with alpha strikes, and it ran me under $100
>>
>>45092367
Monowhite can be good but it's still going to be worse than other monocolored decks that had the same amount of thought and effort put into them. For me it's not that monowhite is bad, I actually enjoy monowhite, it's just the worst of the five colors on its own. Worst does not mean bad or unplayable, it just means everything else is better.
>>
>>45092407

I'm not sure mono red is better but otherwise

Ya
>>
>>45088511
So stifle and trickbind are targeting the ability, but not the creature? Nevermore, and Declaration of Naught would work here too.
>>
>>45092367
A-are you not running the mono color ramp suite?
>Solemn Simulacrum
>Burnished Hart
>Wayfarer's Bauble
>Extraplanar Lens
>Gauntlet of Power
>Caged Sun

Mono-colored decks have access to some stupid levels of mana generation brah.
>>
>>45092281
This. Taking away tuck is the only way to even the playing field, short of completely decimating the color pie. Mono-red for instance has exactly 1 tuck spell, 1 unreliable tutor, and I think 2 premodern counterspells. Maybe there's more I don't know of, but this should still demonstrate how rough red would have it against say blue or black where tutors and counters make it almost easier to recur the commander than the command zone.
>>
>>45092422
Norin, Krenko.
>>
>>45090388
I have him in the other 99 in my Kaervek spite deck.
>>
>>45092422
The two colors are very close when it comes to overall power level in the format but monored has better commanders so that puts it on top.
>>45092440
Burnished Hart is painfully slow but I still like that card, I only rarely play it however. When I do get to stick and activate it, maybe even reanimate it a few times, it feels great.
>mfw Séance and Burnished Hart in Ephara control after a wrath
>>
>>45092445
That's a problem with the color pie being a little harsh for Commander rather than the tuck rule itself.
>>
>>45092343
The problem is that the "interaction" of tucking made colors without access to counterpells and tutors ultimately be unable to interact with it. being able to completely warp and rend decks useless for very cheap was very bullshit.
>>
>>45091244

>muh interaction
>I can't hinder the mono white players commander anymore, which he had no way of interacting with and no recourse when it happened

Fuck you

Fucking disgusting little shit eating fagboy
>>
>>45092497
Burnished Hart is just such an amazing card.
>>
>>45092445
But that's wrong. Removal of tuck makes the top commanders better, and the effect of "balancing the color pie" is drastically exaggerated by the RC and everyone who swallows their idiotic rhetoric.

We could also remove all counterspells, or all land destruction, because most colors only have a very small handful of them. Would that balance the format? Following your logic, it would, so I guess we should!
>>
>>45092461

Norin isn't even good as a commander

Like it's playable, but you're just handicapping yourself compared to purphoros or krenko or Kiki jiki
>>
>>45092501
Strange how fixing tucked just magically made it all better then, huh?
I think it's easier to ban derevi and never print retarded shit like that again than to completely shut out roughly 2/5 of the game.
I'd be willing to bet the RC will never ban her because they're worried no one will buy her precon. It's still on the shelves where I live and probably will be for years.
>>
>>45092512
>completely warp and rend decks useless
A deck has 100 cards in it. What did you do with the other 99?
>>45092513
Like I'd blow a tuck spell on a monowhite commander. Tucking went towards things like Prossh, Derevi, Maelstrom Wanderer, it answered huge value engines that could not be answered profitably through other means. If you were dumb enough to play a monowhite voltron deck with no backup threats then sure, maybe once in a while I'd tuck the commander and leave you completely helpless, but that would be your fault for building a deck that relies entirely on one card. Rest of the time, regular removal would suffice.
>>
>>45092550

Omg the pro-tuck people are always insufferable fucking faggots

They always use this phrase when they straw man:

>according to your logic
>>
>>45092614
The RC doesn't care about precon sales, they're not affiliated to WotC.
>>
>>45092550
Counterspells don't completely nullify 2/5 of the game. If a commander is overpowered blame the card not the game.
>>
>>45092553
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
This? This right here? This is the post of someone who has no fucking clue what they're talking about. Oh man. Go play against a well built Norin deck, and you'll see what I mean. Norin is probably the best Monored commander honestly.
>>
>>45092636
>I have no valid arguments so here's an ad hominem
>>
>>45092664

You're dumb

You can't honestly believe norin is the best mono red commander when purphoros exists

Show me this amazing well built norin deck
>>
>>45092550
We should also remove targeted exile from white and ramp from green while we are at it, right? Sure, It might makes those commanders slightly better, but the removal of tuck also made other not very viable commanders strategies much much better and in line with those. Now that, is much more balanced.
>>
>>45092664
>it's a meme post
Someone let the shu yun and scarred puma guys know
>>
>>45092667

Pointing out that you're making a straw man isn't an argument?

Also just because a person uses an insult doesn't make what they are saying an ad hominem

If the conclusion implies the insult, no fallacy has been made, it's when the insult implies the conclusion, that's a fallacy

I'm saying you're a smug little retard because you don't even bother trying to understand the nuances of the issue, you have your stupid argument you think is air tight and just straw man everybody else and declare yourself the winner when they get tired of talking to you
>>
>>45092695
If I had the list I would.
>>
>>45092649
>Counterspells don't completely nullify 2/5 of the game.
Neither does tuck unless you're completely shit at deckbuilding. I'm not implying you are, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here and just assuming you didn't actually stop to think about the real impact the rules change had.
>>
>>45092720
Still strawmanning I see.
Tuck still exists for the 99, just not the commander. Is it that terrible for you that someone can actually play their commander in EDH? Maybe if you hate EDH so much you should find another less casual format.
>>
>>45092738
How can you type a post like that and then call someone smug?
>don't bother trying to understand the nuances of the issue
I have looked at the nuances of the issue, I'm assuming you haven't.
>>
>>45092747
Tell me how not being shit at deckbuilding would keep a monored deck safe from tuck.
I spent hours on this before the rule change. If you can somehow spot something I missed, please let me know, I'd be very grateful.
>>
>>45092747
For fuck sakes, counterspells don't completely nullify colors that have no acces to answers. and before you say "that's a problem with the colours" then sure, some colors are better than other for edh, but getting rid of being able to tuck such a centerpiece of the deck is an attempt at balancing out the colors so there is more variance in the format.
>>
>>45092744
>>45092695
Here we are.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/217201-norin-the-wary-heads-i-win-tails-you-lose
>>
Killing Tuck made some combo BS harder to disrupt. It didn't turn EDH into 'Battlecruiser Magic'. if EDH is Battlecruiser Magic now, it was already.

Play more Stax.
>>
>>45092815
Having a deck that can work without its commander is the first and most important thing and something you should always have been doing before and even after the rules change.

Second, playing around tuck spells. Don't cast your commander into hinder mana, don't attack into a condemn, learn to live with the rest and accept that interactive games means that sometimes, your commander can get answered, and that's a fine and healthy thing for the format even if it hurts your feelings when it happens.
>>
>>45092789

What is smug about that? Telling you you're wrong is smug?

My understanding of smug is deliberately misunderstanding other people's arguments and acting like they are stupid because you have attributed this nonsense straw man to them
>>
>>45092848
Similar principle, buddies list runs more ramp and doubling ala >>45092440
and he runs some stuff like Codex Shredder which isn't on this list.
>>
>>45092762
dude did you read what I said? that first bit is sarcasm, I'm against tucking commanders...
>>
>>45092848

I've already read that primer before

Norin is only the "best" commander if your criteria is like the writer of that primer, where efficacy is not important, but "mixing it up" and "keeping things fresh and so random lol" is your goal
>>
>>45092907
>don't play your commander in commander
See this is what I'm talking about, this is the kind of bullshit taking away tuck fixed.
If you don't build for your commander, what's the point?
Then the other paragraph is
>shhh just let it happen
No way, it's complete bullshit to let one side have that much power over the other.
>>
>>45092958
Of course he didn't, anti-tuck posters don't appear to be reading much in this thread.
>>
>>45092973
I guarantee you that deck will beat Purph and Kiki and Krenko any day of the week in the hands of a pilot that knows what they're doing.
>>
>>45092907

>only Derevi players should be allowed to build around their commander
>>
>>45092720
Poe's Law got me. I didn't check who you were replying to, and you did a great job imitating that other dude. Then again his argument is so silly it couldn't have been that hard.
>>
>>45093009

You're incorrect

But furthermore, that's not the point

If you want to build a mono red deck that has the best possible matchup 1v1 vs other mono red, then that's one thing

That wouldn't necessarily make it the best deck overall in the multiplayer metagame
>>
>>45092987
Everything you say applies just as well to any other form of disruption. Playing around things doesn't mean not playing your commander. Learning to cope with losing your commander doesn't mean bending over and taking it. You're not entitled to keeping your commander every game: cards can get answered, game plans can get disrupted, and that's a good thing. That's what makes interactive games. Removing tuck made games less interactive and if you think that's a good thing, then fine, I won't be able to change your mind on that, I'll just keep thinking you're retarded.
>>
>>45093009

So what the purph and krenko players don't know what they are doing?

What's the point of qualifying that the norin player "knows what he's doing" ??
>>
>>45093026
You do realize Derevi was one of the biggest targets of tucking, and one of the main reasons people say tuck should have stayed? It's like you're trying to defeat your own argument on purpose.
>>
>>45092987
It's not "Don't play your commander" it's "Don't play stupid with your commander". Having to take into account what your opponent does or can do is good gameplay. If you could play optimally with a brick wall between you and your opponent, hiding all information about his/her plays, that's a problem.
>>
>>45093074

Removing one kind of interaction does not, especially one that is difficult to interact with like tuck, does not necessarily mean the overall metagame is less interactive

Why is that so hard for you to understand? Interaction cannot be so simply defined has merely the sum of all possible "ways" to deal with a commander
>>
>>45093039
No, it was actually really obvious, you just happen to be retarded.
>>
>>45093081
Cause the deck has a comparatively complicated decision tree compared to PKK. But all against each other in a multiplayer game, in the hands of people who know what they're doing, the Norin deck will come out on top.
>>
>>45093113

You missed the point

When tuck is a thing, only decks with lots of tutors and/or an uninteractable commander can build around having the commander available

Tuck is literally not missed at all besides the fact that it was the one loophole left to us to deal with the broken design of Derevi and to a lesser extent prossh

In my mind, those are not points in favor of the tuck rule, those are points in favor of banning Derevi and prossh

Tuck hurts fair decks significantly more than it hurts bullshit precon top tier decks, so if you're argument is that we need it to deal with the bullshit precon top tier decks, I'm not convinced
>>
>>45093136
No anon, you're the one who's not even trying to understand. Read that sentence as many times as you need until it sinks in. Tuck was one of the main ways, possibly even the best way, to interact profitably with a large portion of this format's top commanders.

There are still ways to interact with them but none as efficient or profitable as tuck. With tuck gone, interaction got worse. This is a fact. This is undeniable. Stop being dense on purpose please, I want to believe you have the capacity to understand such simple concepts.
>>
>>45093151

There's no evidence for that assertion though, just hopes

It would be poetic and beautiful for the unassuming norin, who doesn't do really anything, to be the mono red commander that comes out on top over obviously broken design like purphoros

But life doesn't always turn out how you want it
>>
>>45093206
>Tuck hurts fair decks significantly more than it hurts bullshit precon top tier decks
But that's wrong. Literally wrong. It's like you're too focused on your own experience of feeling bad and sad when your commander got tucked to be able to see the bigger picture.
>>
>>45093227

No dude, I'm truly trying my hardest to make you understand

Removing the most "efficient" and "profitable" way of interacting with certain commanders does not mean that in the grand scheme of the metagame, interaction itself is now worse off as a strategy

Can you see how there might be room for those two things to differ? The strength of interaction as a strategy, disrupting your opponents game plan, and the list of all the viable cards that do this, those two things are separate and a change to one does not mean a 1:1 to change for the other

Can you grasp that?
>>
>>45093240
One can argue that Daretti is the best red commander, actually. Does more damage than Purphoros and is more resilient.
>>
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>>45093039
Fair enough lol. And yeah imitating this monkey wasn't hard at all.
>>
>>45093314

You stupid fucking piece of shit

You are wrong, "literally" wrong even, you fucking embarrassing little faggot
>>
>>45093323
>removing the best interaction does not mean interaction got worse
Alright, thanks a lot, I understand now.
>>
>>45093227
>interaction got worse
This isn't a real point to me. I fail to see why it's so important
, especially since some decks just aren't interactive. And it seems like what you count as "interactive" just happens to be whatever helps your argument the most.
Here's what I do care about - taking away tuck evens the playing field and makes many more commanders and strategies actually playable. The fact that blue can't completely dominate and dictate every game can only be a positive thing.
>>
>>45093326

I actually probably agree with you, but it's close

And I didn't think of daretti cuz he's more mono brown than mono red
>>
>>45093341
No need to get so angry anon, it's not like I tucked your commander or anything.
>>
>>45093355

>I can't stop strawmanning for even a single post

Thanks for that clarification you shit eating faggot
>>
>>45093377
Not like you can anyways, you faggot.
>>
>>45093364
Whether you like interactive games or not is a matter of personal preference but overall, I feel that better interaction was important to the health and diversity of the format because of two main points. 1. EDH, being a multiplayer format, encourages less interaction since it is much harder to trade profitably when you have three opponents, and some of your opponents may not even be trying to interact, putting a much larger burden on you individually to "control the board".

And 2. Commanders can just get recast, some of the best ones provide value on cast, so blowing removal on commanders was putting you down on cards and at best just slightly delaying opponents without really impairing their game plan.

This led to cards like tuck, that could answer a commander for more than one turn or at the very least force an opponent to have a tutor and blow it, being extremely valuable and an actual incentive to play more interactive strategies rather than just playing out your own deck as quickly as possible to overpower opponents through superior "muh board presence" or faster combos.
>>
>>45093377

So clever

Damn I wish I was as cool as the pro-tuck hipsters

Internet points to you my friend
>>
>>45093409
That's what you said though. At least try to own up to your own posts.
>>
strawpoll.me/6674726
Vote for tuck.
>>
>>45093479

You make it sound like control is not viable

Control is still the most powerful deck archetype in edh, in spite of the "hit" it took when it lost the ability to tuck the generals of inferior strategies
>>
>>45093523

Obviously I said more than that, and I said it differently, the text is there for all to read, you're not fooling anybody

Will you own up to being willfully ignorant and strawmanning? I doubt it
>>
>>45093555
>Control is still the most powerful deck archetype
Alright, I'm out.
>>
>>45093585
Yes, you did. You added a lot more words around the idea of "making interaction worse does not mean interacting is worse" like that would somehow hide the blatant falsehood of the statement.

If the best interaction is removed, interaction gets worse.
If interaction gets worse, interaction itself is worse off as a strategy.

Please. This isn't rocket science.
>>
>>45093479
Sounds like problems that could be mitigated with better deck building. Maybe you shouldn't plan your strategies around being able to always remove your opponents commanders. :^)
>>
>>45092319
The Weathered Wayfarer is one of the better ramp cards. It lets you keep up with the green decks, and lets you fetch any land. I have one in any of my decks that runs white.
>>
>>45093712
Already changed it, I now play goldfish combo decks or hurr durr value train UGx deck so I don't have to even pretend I have opponents at the table. Thanks Sheldor! :^)
>>
>>45093672

Tucks are only the best interaction for commanders

Interaction has merely been shifted, now you need to focus on interacting with the 99, and guess what, that plan still works even better than ever
>>
>>45093790
I have a hard time calling it "ramp" and I don't really see how it lets you keep up with green decks, given that green decks are unlikely to only drop one land a turn.

I do however like it when paired with MLD. Anything that puts more lands in my hand is going to be great when played next to an Armageddon, as long as I get to fill up my hand a bit before blowing up the lands.
>>
>>45093831
I know you're being insincere, but that's still better than tuck to me. Infinitely better. Now you actually have to rely on more than one spell to win, and you're open to removal. UG isn't even that scary since PoK got the axe.
>>
The frothy tuck ragers amuse me because my group still plays with tuck. The first thing that happened after the change was one guy very openly hating the change getting his commander hindered with no way to get it back. Other than that, tuck has been a non issue. In fact, I've cut my Hinders/Crumples for dissipate/Trickery because THEY DEAL WITH THE ACTUAL THREATS PERMANENTLY. Who the fuck cares if you hinder a commander? The ones worth tucking are in colors suited to get them back anyway except Purph.

>>45092299

This guy has the right idea. Hit the enablers and the problems.
>>
Tucks are not the only way of dealing with problematic commanders. There's what, three different denial cards in u and w. G and w have a bunch of enchantments that can nerf creatures too. Or you can just steal them with b or u enchantments.
>>
>>45093841
>works even better than ever
haha
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>>45093831
I'm surprised you are not whining and bitching about the prophet banning too, fagget
>>
>>45093900
>but that's still better than tuck to me. Infinitely better.
Then we have irreconcilable opinions and I'm really fucking glad I have no one like you in my meta. I'll assume the feeling's mutual.
>>45093909
No one implied tuck was the only way, it was just one of the most efficient and readily available ways.
>>
>>45094000
Get your strawmen straight, I'm actually happy about the prophet banning. Though I will concede that it probably wasn't necessary, I'm happy to see it gone, it's a net positive for overall format balance.
>>
>>45094003
>I'm really fucking glad I have no one like you in my meta
The feeling is mutual. I can't imagine how awful it must be to never actually play.
>>
>>45094023
And as a player with a UG deck so am I. PoK was absolutely bonkers. Sure it probably wasn't necessary but it gave such an immense advantage for a mere 5 mana.
>>
>>45094101
I can't imagine how awful it must be to have literally no other playable card but your commander in your deck.
>>
>Prophet of Kruphix
>Arcanis, the Omnipotent
>Survival of the Fittest
Yeah fuck everyone.
>>
>>45094104
The days of my friends Riku of bouncy castle creatures have passed.

No longer will prophet hold sway over gaming table.
>>
>>45094146
Isn't that the point of commander?
Oh right, you want it to be indistinguishable from 100 card vintage singleton where only the best strategies are viable and commanders don't exist.
>>
>>45094169
>Survival of the Fittest still isn't banned
To be perfectly honest, I enjoy playing with the card and I'd be sad to see it go, but goddamn it seems absurd that it's legal. Not as absurd as Sol Ring but still, pretty absurd.
>>
>>45094196
Actually, I want to have a good commander with 99 other cards that synergize well with that commander, and also between themselves. I want to be able to often play with that commander, but I also want to be able to play without it if the situation requires it. You could say I want to build decks that aren't completely centered around one vulnerable gimmick and completely fall apart without it. What about you?
>>
>>45094245
The exact same, except in my scenario my removal is just as effective as yours.
>>
>>45094328
>as ineffective
Fixed that for you.
>>
>>45094245
You might want to consider Scion of the Ur Dragon.
>>
>>45094596
I don't even know what you're trying to imply here.
>>
>>45094860
He is implying that you might want to consider Scion of the Ur Dragon.
>>
>>45094921
But is it some passive-aggressive "Why don't you play scion of the hermit druid" comment, or just some anon who genuinely enjoys scion dragons.dek?
>>
>>45095055
I'm not part of the conversation but why do people run Scion as the general in Hermit druid decks? Surely one of the other 5 colour generals would be better than a 4/4 flier for 5.
>>
Opinions of intet as a commander for a dragon tribal deck?
>>
>>45095137
Scion himself can run some very compact combos if the hermit druid plan fails. I don't remember them perfectly but I think there was something with a double-strike dragon and firebreathing killing with commander damage.
>>
>>45095055
It was some passive-aggressive "Why don't you play scion of the hermit druid" comment.
>>
>>45094561
Being a pessimist doesn't improve your argument. It does reinforce the idea that you're an insufferable cunt though.
>>
>>45095307
I thought that but when I checked out a few "competetive" lists a while ago they didn't include any dragons at all in the deck, it was all dedicated to the hermit combo.

>>45095245
I run it, it's good fun.
>>
>>45095347
It's what I thought but it was so dumb and baseless I wanted to believe it was something else. Because it's just sad to think that to this anon, anything that isn't all-in on its commander is Scion Hermit.
>>
>>45095433
the guy who originally brewed the hermit druid combo on MTGS had shit like dragon tyrant and nicol bolas to fuck people as a backup win. over time the combo changed and the back up was cut but people just continued using scion for no particular reason.
>>
>>45095433
Then I guess it just sort of became a tradition. If they're never casting their commander, there's no difference between running Scion or Atogatog, so they're going with the one that gave the deck its name.
>>
>>45095503
Ah that makes sense, thanks. It's been bugging me for a while
>>
>>45095433
The primer still uses Dragon Tyrant and Nicol Bolas at minimum.
>>
>>45070010
>>You can only play one of your commander decks for the rest of your days. Who do you play, and why is it your favorite?

I'm quite new to the format and only got an Oloro and Teferi, Temporal Archmage deck.
Also played a friends Rafiq and Omnath, Locus of Rage deck. For now it is between oloro and Rafiq but next week I'll be building my Scion of the Ur dragon deck and he seems just so versatile and fun to use.
>>
>>45095569
here, I went and found the MTGS post in particular.

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/forum-1-vs-1-traditional/206207-scion-of-the-ur-dragon-hermit-druid-combo

He explains that copying nicol bolas does 7 cmd damage and dumps their hand, the next turn you swing as dragon tyrant and pump his power by 1 for 14 cmd damage, 21 total, you win. keep in mind this was intended for duel commander (1v1) so it was a pretty solid back up. the combo was cut for multiplayer lists that aim to kill the entire table rather than one person.
>>
>>45095656
I will never understand the appeal of these decks. I guess I'd play them in a setting where there's cash prizes or store credit on the line (like that anon who earned enough for a Ravages of War playing EDH at some SCG event), but when you're playing casually? It's just not interesting and it encourages opponents to adopt a similar strategy of just going turbo-goldfish to remain competitive.

We need a word that's neither casual nor competitive to describe metas where people play cutthroat lists and play to win but while still trying to foster a friendly and fun environment. The kind of place where you will play MLD or stax or tuned UGx list but where people will hate you out if you show up with Derevi or Scion Hermit.
>>
>>45095821
I wish I could play MLD or Stax.

Instead I just fuck people with my goodstuff.
>>
>>45095955
I try to stay away from MLD or stax decks if I feel that I can have interesting games without them. But when I'm playing at a table where everyone's some flavor of UGx ramp or other type of deck with a huge curve that's going to kick Rites or entwine T&N at some point, then I'll bring out the stax / MLD decks.

It's not that I enjoy it. It's that these people need to be punished.
>>
I need to make 3 cuts, can anyone help?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/14-01-16-pjr-mishra/
>>
>>45094201

This confuses me, too. It's a stupid fucking card. At least Fauna Shaman has to tap.
>>
>>45094245

That's what the command tax is for
>>
>>45096354
I'm playing it in a very fair deck (Anafenza Hatebears) but even there, I can't remember how often I found myself in a situation where if I drew it, I won straight away. I also don't remember losing many games where I had it, barring some very very poor plays on my part.

I much prefer Evolutionary Leap as a "fair" alternative. It's not even a third of SotF's power and utility but it still manages to be really good, that's saying a lot.
>>
>>45096488
The commander tax is just a tax, not an answer. It takes multiple removal spells for the commander tax to become prohibitively expensive and even then, some decks simply don't care. I've cast Maelstrom Wanderer for 18+ mana before in particularly grindy games (or just any game where I had Food Chain or an infinite mana combo). Last time I played it, I had the aforementioned Food Chain which I managed to slip under my opponent's counterspells, went crazy on turn 5 and my opponents just conceded when I was a third of the way through my deck, one of them revealing a completely useless Hinder in hand.
>>
>>45090826
Its pretty cool that she works with buyback , gives me an opportunity to play with whispers of the muse and mystic speculation, as a side note, i feel mystic speculation could have been an instant , sure it would have been good but not busted
>>
>>45090922
>wastes a spot
nice pun , glad to see the new basics are going over well
>>
>>45082963
Late reply, but I went to the LGS store and made a huge list of the cards I needed for the deck since I was doing it from scratch. After waiting about an hour for the cards to get collected, they didn't have it I was bummed.

>>45082964
Also really late. Thanks for the offer dude, but my friend also heard my plea and happened to find a local seller who happens to have it. I just need to wait until tomorrow to get the card.
>>
Until a minute ago I was very statisfied with my build here, but now i feel like I should put in 2 or 3 more lands, but I'm not sure.
I also wouldn't know what to cut from it.
Can I get some opinions please? Am I I panicking for no reason?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/narsets-enlightened-assault/#
>>
>>45096638

Well food chain is broken, it could be banned

The commander tax is an answer in many cases, it just takes multiple cards, a concerted effort, rather than one tuck

Coupled with mana denial or can even be permanent
>>
>>45097054
Is this the same list you played before the mulligan rules change? If it is, and you suddenly feel like you need more lands, it's probably a good instinct and you should add a couple. Card selection from mulligans took a hit, a lot of decks now require a few more lands to be as consistent as before.
>>
>>45097087

It can even be permanent
>>
>>45096638

You got to 18 mana

And the problem here is the tuck rule?

18 mana should be enough to win the game no matter what deck you're playing
>>
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So I bought the Orzhov Precon EDH deck a bit ago and it's just been laying around since. I want to do something with it, but don't really know where to go with it. I'll be using Daxos as the commander, what do you guys think of this list?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/daxos-the-enchantment-whore/
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>>45097087
Instead of banning everything, maybe we could acknowledge that tuck was a valuable pressure valve keeping many of the most potentially problematic elements of the format in check. Just a thought.
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>>45097146
Food Chain, any mana doublers, cascading into ramp or something like Turnabout, Dream Halls paying for everything but the commander tax, etc. There are many ways to cast an 18 mana Maelstrom Wanderer, and the best answer to that was always to tuck the MW so the player can stop cascading like a madman, then deal with what's left over.
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>>45096553

It being a sac outlet pushes it higher, too.
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>>45097107
Well I haven't played the deck yet, just constructed it since I'm buying cards over the weekend.
Yes, it's partly because of the new mulligan rules, but also because I was thinking 34 lands might be too little although I don't really need the mana except for casting my commander.
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>>45097257
Which problematic elements?
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Does anybody here have a Sliver EDH? I've always enjoyed them but the stupidly high price of the legendaries has always scared me away.
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>>45097608
Any commander that provides value on cast and goes infinite / near infinite with any altar or food chain type card. UGx decks in general, particularly those with commanders that provide card advantage of any kind, since they are very comfortable recasting their commanders over and over again. Specific commanders like Prossh and Derevi, obviously.

I mean, this post is a complete waste of time because people who thought being able to interact profitably and efficiently with commanders was a bad thing will never change their mind. Their position apparently comes from a sense of entitlement, where they feel like they deserve to have their commander and keep it and protect it every game and disrupting that is bad for the format, and they rationalize their position by pretending the change was better for the overall health of the format because of the color pie or something. Sheldor's article on the subject was so full of holes it was sort of sad, but people who already agreed with him just nodded their head and went "Yes you're right this sure is balancing the format and fixing color pie issues, thanks for everything." Even though the decision never had anything to do with balance and was entirely motivated by "spirit of the format" concerns and avoiding "feelbad" moments of having your commander tucked.
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