Balance of Power? What the hell! Edition
Please kill Vandus.
Why do people keep posting this goddamn Mattel toy like I'm supposed to be jealous of its quality and drop AoS to run to my nearest weeb outlet mall ninja shop and bring it home to put on my mantle with my Naruto headband and pocky stick collection
Your waifu is shit, anon, and I don't want to see her anymore
Maybe you should go and play with your barbies then, if that's what you call good and fun to use.
It's nice to finally be on the other end of this:
I think you're on the wrong board, you're looking for /toy/
Nah, I don't actually like Ms. Weeaboo McWeeb, I just hate AoS more.
Now, painting up some Marines from Warlord, that's something I could get behind.
It's very simple.
1. Get a bunch of dominoes, number them all individually, then set them up in a big room.
2. Have everyone in the company spitball ideas and choose a number for each of their ideas.
3. Have everyone take a laser pointer, stand around the dominoes, then release a kitten into the room. Whichever dominoes get knocked over within a minute are the ideas that make up GW's business strategy for the next fiscal year.
I know I'm a little late on this, but has anybody else read the call of chaos short stories from the advent calendar? Some of them are pretty bland but generally they have been pretty good so far. I particularly liked the "Prodigal" Nurgle one
Reminder that every sibgle update stars the Sigmarines, their Chaos enemy, and a special guest appearance.
To be fair, the Stormcast are leading the revolution against the tyranny of Chaos from the forefront, so it's logical you will see more of them. The other Order, Death, and Destruction forces are in their hidy spots and strongholds. Their efforts to fight against Chaos are disorganized and pitiful.
It's up to the Stormcast to find them and rally them against the forces of Chaos before the legions of Varanspire mobilize in full force to crush them all.
On a side note, the next book will have Vandus HAMMERHAND vs Archaon Everchosen the Grand Marshall of
Place your bets, gentlemen.
>Archaon prepares to land the killing blow
>The Slayer of Kings is intercepted by a Reality Splitting Axe
>Archaon : What is the meaning of this?!
>Khorgos Khul : He is not yours to kill, Everchosen.
>Another CLANG resounds across the battlefield as both daemon blessed weapons crash against each other again.
>The shockwave sends both combatants back
>Khorgos Khul back flips to Vandus's side
>Khorgos Khul : Rise up, Hammerhand. You will not die today.
>Vandus rises on his feet and picks up his hammer
>Vandus Hammerhand : W..why are you doing this, Khul?
>Khorgos Khul : Ask not a question you already know the answer for, Hammerhand. After we finish with him, we will settle things between us once and for all.
>Archaon : How amusing. Come Warriors of Order and Chaos. Come and meet your deaths.
>Khorgos Khul and Vandus Hammerhand nod at each other and charge the Everchosen
Cue Hype ANIME fight music
And this is why I love AoS.
The art's a bit all over the place. Some of it's damn good (pic related is as good as anything GW's done, IMO), some is average and cartoony (a trend that started before the end times, admittedly), and some is goddamn derpy. Consequences of using third-party artists, I suppose.
>TFW Archaon went from the best model GW ever made to something that actually hurts to look at
>TFW the greatest character for the Sigmarine is literally Sailor Sigmar
The skulls and heads of the Stormcast Eternals represent Archaon's victims that he feed to Drogthar.
They will forever exist in torment within the daemonic abomination, forced to be witnesses to Archaon's unspeakable atrocities. Their cries of anguish barely heard over Archaon's dark laughter and the foot falls of the Chaos legions marching on to more conquests.
It's SO FREAKING METAL. But I guess plebs gotta pleb.
yeah its like forge world whose best seller is a $2000 warlord titan
Only because I couldn't think of an anime that does that.
Archaon is like the commander and chief of the "Fuck You" Hell dimension. By having the soul bound skulls and helmets of his victims in full display for all to see, he is sending a message.
"Woe to the conquered. Woe for you, for you are next!"
"FUCK YOU FOR ALL ETERNITY. THIS IS WHAT YOU GET FOR CHALLENGING THE RED EYED KING".
It's very fitting and METAL. I like it!
But that's completely over the top and silly, and not that scary to be honest. It's like it's trying way too hard to be menacing, and it's not actually that menacing. Not to mention it's a shitty model that'll break in a stiff breeze.
Over the top and silly are not bad things. In fact, It's what Warhammer is made off. That's the thing about AoS. It has taken everything and turned the dials up to eleven. That's why AoS as a whole is more Warhammer than WHFB ever was.
I want things to go more over the top. I wants thing to get more ridiculous and extreme. AoS is here to deliver. I am at the edge waiting for the next threshold they are going to break. It's thrilling!
This might to be your cup of tea, and it's understandable. You are free to move over to more grounded settings like....40K.
If you have a WHFB group, go ahead and do it. Every time you play WHFB you're defying GW, which is a good thing in my book.
However, if you don't have a WHFB group, don't do it. Stay away from AoS at all costs.
Metal is more obvious when reliant on the concept, and vague only when shit doesn't matter. That looks like he's got skull warts.
See this? This is metal.
That's like goth glam.
That's the thing, 40K is the popular game around me, I don't know anyone who plays WHFB or AOS. Only recently I became interested in Fantasy despite being a 40K player for a decade. It just never really appealed to me but something just clicked earlier this month and suddenly I became interested. Maybe I'll just get some minis to paint.
Metal revels in its ludicrousness. Metal is about adrenaline, movement, rage, jubilation, mourning, glee, and the hypocrasy of others on display.
That's just posing for a picture. Its like My Chemical Romance, its pop punk that doesn't amount to anything but tune and noise.
Having skulls randomly poking out of flesh is not the way to pass any sense of importance to the thing.
They do not appear as focal points and pass as bland fillers rather than symbolic details.
If the souls of the devoured that-have-no body-but-must-scream had to appear somewhere, it should have been as barely noticeable shadows forming a texture on the membranes of the wings, with the extended digits representing both the rays of the chaos star and the beams of a cage, as further immediatly recognized trophy, banner and crown of the everchosen and the slaved and submitted wills of his legions.
They should leave the stupid skulls to the stupid khorne stuff, that's a way more fitting place for over the top, supposedly metal, retardation and concept lazyness.
>But DBZ has likable characters, and a understandable human element. Nobody told us to just make the story up.
It's just like you haven't read any AoS novel or campaign book.
AoS has a developing storyline and plenty of likeable characters who keep getting character development as the setting progresses.
>but not in a stupid way.
I'll just politely disagree in the strongest possible manner, and say that in my own perspective Dragonball Z is Sonic the Hedgehog tier.
>It's what Warhammer is made off. That's the thing about AoS. It has taken everything and turned the dials up to eleven. That's why AoS as a whole is more Warhammer than WHFB ever was.
Objectively wrong, the actual creator of the game said the point was a historical wargame with Fantasy elements plus humor.
Age of Sigmar is humorless. There's nothing charming, satirical, or humorous about it. Its 100% played straight.
Gardus, Vandus, Tarus, and Thostos. These are swell characters that I genuinely like and root for despite me being a diehard Chaosfag.
You would too, if you read or listened to the audiobooks/novels. Start by lisyening to the Mannfred and Stormcast team-up audiobooks. Do it now!
Why is the AoS community in so many places actively hostile to the whole concept of balance?
I have lost count of the number of times anybody who actually wants to have a vaguely fair game that is played to win for fun has been branded a WAAC powergamer.
When from what I have seen IRL those are the people most drawn to AoS.
I don't care about those characters, Sigmarines look like shit and have 0% appeal to me.
I want to read about MY factions, the ones I invested about $800 each in. The ones who's jobs are to be the offscreen sidekicks to that garbage.
When someone is pissed Ultramarines get all the attention, you don't tell them its their fault for not reading about the Ultramarines and finding them to be fascinating.
Threadly reminder that this year is Age of Sigmars first Gamesday, and there aren't enough people playing it to show up and make it happen.
Are you ready to see less Age players than The Hobbit players?
What is your faction?
Fyreslayers got their story collection.
The Undead characters (Nagash, Mannfred, and Arkan) featured in the audiobook series. Also the Tomb Kings will have AoS stories written about them.
>That's the only time he's ever been defeated, period. In the billions of years now he's been around.
>SUCH a Sue.
It's said to be one of the few times he's lost in the mortal realms. That implies that there are more.
Because a wargame should be fair, and this fairness should be quantifiable by some metric, such as gentlemen's agreement and historical limitations (Black Powder for example) or a points system.
Crushing your opponent on turn 3 for no reason other than you both eyeballed it wrong is not 'fun' for anybody with a hint of sportsmanship.
Because contrary to the inane ramblings of GW fanboys balanced and competitive rules are objectively a good thing even for the fluffiest of hobby gamers. Poor rules do not make things more fun or more 'narrative'.
>Yfw The entire Skaven race became Chaos bottom bitch irrelevant jobbers.
Our named heroes are gone, just like everyone's soon enough.
WE BEASTMEN NAOW
You still have Thanquol... (probably) and the Verminlords.
But talking to your opponent about what would make a fair game IS a gentleman's agreement. Why don't you do that?
Don't fool yourself, GW rules have never been good. At least this way I can use more than the FOTM netlist that ignores 3/4ths of an army (and some armies entirely).
Because AoS is a fantasy game, not a historical one. If it was Black Powder, a block of riflemen are pretty much identical to another block of riflemen (same for cavalry), so me and my opponent could agree to bring 4 blocks of riflemen, 2 lines of cavalry, and 2 cannons, and we'd end up with a fairly balanced force. Or we could agree to recreate an historical battle.
AoS has infantry that can make stuff blow up, become invisible, or shoot mind bullets. So without a points system it's near impossible to balance.
And how does that work for game night at the LGS? Its not even remotely practical for many people to bring their entire collection and spend time negotiating beforehand. Especially since people have wildly varying and often incompatible views about how powerful things are.
And pretending AoS only hurts netlisters is just dishonest and stupid.
High Elves who aren't the faggot twins.
All factions that got the axe.
I won't read extensively about the only faction getting attention because there's nothing else.
I'm not paying for a book that has at best a fucking single chapter about another faction.
FUCK Sigmarines, FUCK Khorne, FUCK Nurgle, FUCK fireSkavenDwarves, and FUCK Nagash.
Nigga Skaven are in the exact same boat
>only exist to serve and build up Chaos warriors
>all their characters and shit gone
>all clans downplayed and essentially removed with no place in the mortal realms
Strigoi is essentially Clan Moulder tier right about now, but GW seems to love Manfred and Isabella so you have some hope. No one gives two shits about Throt and the like
...These guys went nowhere. They featured in the novels and BTs. The Lizardmen BT had a big battle between them and a horde of Slaaneshi daemons.
Ogors featured in the fluff (Call of Archaon series, for example). Wait for your faction BT to get your sub-faction.
Same thing here.
>High Elves who aren't the faggot twins.
The dwarfs got their stories with their BT. Just wait your turn. Tyrion and Teclis barely featured in anything yet.
Stop being impatient and buy the current novels to familiarize yourself with the setting so we don't get posts like "AoS doesn't have any characters!".
>Archaon faces Thostos, Vandus and Bael
>Archaon is wounded but strikes down Vandus, destroying his soul with the Slayer of Kings
>He swats the other two aside as they attempt to shield Vandus' broken body
>The Celestant-Prime arrives and he and Archaon engage in a furious duel
>Archaon drives the Prime to his knees and brings down the Slayer of Kings as the Prime raises his sceptre
>The Sceptre shatters but the resultant force unmakes the Slayer of Kings and knocks the Crown of Domination from Archaon's head.
>With the last of his strength and taking advantage of Archaon's blindness the Celestant-Prime rises up and obliterates Archaon's head with Ghal Maraz.
>The Prime dies, his purpose done.
>A thunderous laugh resounds across the battlefield, and from the black sky of the Eight Points descends Be'lakor, the Dark Master
>He takes up the Crown of Domination for himself and announces that the true age of Chaos is now and the reign of darkness has come.
>But in far away Sigmarion, Sigmar sits upon his throne and gazes down upon a spot where suddenly lightning strikes.
>A tortured, emaciated form lays sprawled there.
>Sigmar is quite for a moment but then stands.
>"Diederick Kastner, we have work to do."
Pestlins featured a lot in the stories. I say in nearly all BTs and campaign books there were battles against Pestlins Skaven.
There is a warlord Skaven clan in the Josh Reyonlds series. I haven't read it thoroughly so I can't give a lot details.
>Busy working. (I'm a storyboard artist for an animation studio). Little to no time to do things.
>Have my White Dwarf near my work station. Mom picks it up. She knows I like the hobby.
>'Anon, what's this? He looks pretty cool. Whoa, this guy's badass, though this dragon's doing all the work. He's not doing shit.'
>Christmas rolls around. Didn't ask for much, at that time where I'm pretty much satisfied with a game, some replacement clothes.
>See this box.
I got mad because she didn't have to spend that money. But it has grown on me. It has a spot for me. Thing's fucking massive too. I just gotta green stuff the small gaps.
Well I don't see golden-clad orangutan wizards, or rocket launchers that actually launch hammers, or chaos hounds with steampunk chainsaws in their mouths.
I don't see anything that suggests GW is trying to make a self-consciously silly and over-the-top product rather than a ridiculous attempt at a serious one.
They take themselves fucking seriously, and either do not realize how ridiculous they look in the process, or they do and just assume their playerbase will let them get away with it.
>Be'lakor, the Dark Master
>>He takes up the Crown of Domination for himself and announces that the true age of Chaos is now and the reign of darkness has come.
B A S E D
>golden-clad orangutan wizards, or rocket launchers that actually launch hammers, or chaos hounds with steampunk chainsaws in their mouths
What the hell are you on about? When did those happen?
Oh please, Beast men got split into two factions and one unit was put in the generic Monsters of Chaos faction.
Skaven got 6 armies, 5 of the representing 5 skaven clan traditions/ethnicites while the last one is the equivalent of the Everchosen.
Skaven players got way too many toys with AoS and will receive a lot more units when their races get the BT upgrade.
This. AoS needed to draw in all the OG players fast as fuck, it failed and it shows as the game is barely played anywhere.
Still shellshocked they hamfisted Space marines into the fantasy world, it's like they were actively trying to piss off everyone and make their game hated
For High-elves we just need to wait for the Aelf time to shine, that's all.
Ogres Maneaters should be the Gutburster tribe if I'm not wrong.
There are the Soulblight Vampires faction that will come, also the good guy vampire monks that turn into Varghulfs from the Nagash audiobooks.
Slaanesh Daemons are stuffed into Hosts of Slaanesh army.
They don't even look that bad with their helmets off. Even passable as Bret peasant build.
Include a human male head, an elf head, a human female head, an orc head, and an undead head with the standard packs and shown alongside standard troops and we'd be shrugging.
But that army of samefags helmet look was the worst possible way to advertise it.
The problem is every faction will get their lore only when the Stormcast or Khornates or Nagash-whatevers are there to bring the edge of the spotlight to them.
Everyone who isn't Sigmar, Nagash, or Khorne/Nurgle is a sidekick now. Not to mention Fyreslayers rape lore worse than Blizzard did to Warcraft.
No, he used an hyperbole to show which direction AOS should go to look like they're actually, intentionally trying to make an over-the-top, silly product that should be enjoyed for its over-the-top silliness.
And to be honest, WH40k has Joakero and marines with drills for fists, so it's not that far away.
how do they rape lore when there is no lore to rape?
>Skaven got 6 armies, 5 of the representing 5 skaven clan traditions/ethnicites while the last one is the equivalent of the Everchosen.
Are we playing the game game m8?
First of all are you really trying to compare the Masterclan skaven to the Everchosen's formations and units? All fucking 3 models, 2 of them being unique heroes
And what armies are these pray tell. You know the new chaos book has one Skryre formation and it's dogshit because it's just forcing you to purchase a box of Stormfiends for each division.
>Skaven players got way too many toys with AoS
Fucking laughable you consider losing our special characters as getting new toys. Alright, that's enough.
I don't know who you're trying to shill too or what crazy alternate dimension you fell in from but you'll have little luck convincing Skaven players with this babble. We know the score, whereas you don't seem to have any idea what you are talking about.
Anon , he could have said AOS doesn't have those things without actually implying old fantasy or 40k have them instead. I can't see anywhere in that post him saying fantasy was only about being silly.
It's Age of Sigmar, started by Sigmar sending the Stormcast down. They are a bit central to the development of the Realmgate Wars series. As the plot passes the Realmgate Wars and more armies begin to appear this should be significantly lesser.
ONE YEAR, ONE FACTION.
YEAR TWO, 90% OF THAT FACTION.
When Ogres were introduced, they didn't star every fucking story. When Undead split, it wasn't a setting-shattering event.
Most of us were sick of the Stormcast Eternals when we first saw them, all but a few are sick of them now.
>First of all are you really trying to compare the Masterclan skaven to the Everchosen's formations and units? All fucking 3 models, 2 of them being unique heroes
Both the Masterclan and the Everchosen are composed of elite units representing the core of their army. Masterclan has Thanquol and Skreech as unique characters, Grey Seers, Verminlords and the Screaming Bell.
>And what armies are these pray tell. You know the new chaos book has one Skryre formation and it's dogshit because it's just forcing you to purchase a box of Stormfiends for each division.
I think you're confusing battalions and armies. The new chaos book has 5 skaven factions/armies, besides the Masterclan, each representing a tradition that a Skaven clan might follow. Veminus are warlord clans of old, while the 4 great clans have been split into several clans.
>Fucking laughable you consider losing our special characters as getting new toys.
Special characters are boring when they are supposed to represent generic heroes. I like Warpfang much better.
The ogres were never the protagonists or the starting faction of an entire setting.
I don't particularly favour the Stormcast Eternals and I'm eagerly waiting for something better, but I certainly understand why they are doing stuff like this and not the way you describe it.
Yeah, exactly. Age of Sigmar is full of supposed synergy and options (Hurr USE ANYTHING GUYS), but it's all done to push sales and force you into certain playstyles.
Want your Skeletons to be worth using over Grave-gaurd? Fuck you
unless of course you field a 30+ block and have a -Deathrattle- hero stand beside them! Yess, purchase that wight king you little goyim.
Want your weapon teams to survive at all? Haha, get fucked.
Unless of course you field the ever popular Verminus Clawpack! You'll need 3 units of Clanrats have to buy a few extra teams though. Gee that Skaven battleforce sure looks tempting, Mm?
Want that Black orc formation don't you? Yeah, put those old school models to use you savvy old 'ard boy you.
Oh by the way you'll need a Giant. what the fuck do giants have to do with Black orcs? Nothing at all! but we need to get 'em off the shelves somehow
I was just waiting for you to pull the 'Verminlords are Masterclan' out your arse. This is like implying Nurgle got 4 new units in AoS just because Pestilens happen to have the Nurgle keyword. also notice the three pure Masterclan units are huge semi-unique models just awkwardly on their own. not at all comaprable to the Varangard or the 'undivided' style battalions.
You bringing up Verminus or Masterclan and pretending they are entire armies on their own is stupid. This is exactly how i know you don't even play Skaven, who the fuck just says 'I'm going to field only clanrats and stormvermin guys because Verminus' no one does this, and if you think people do then once again Limitation =/= more 'toys'
Finally, you couldn't miss the point of a special character any harder if you think a guy with a unique name, role, ability's, place in the world and backstory are all intended to result in 'Yeah this guy? he has one more wound than [generic hero] aaaand nothing much else'
Verminlord Warpseer and Skreech are specifically listed as Masterclan units. The other Verminlords seem to be the same indirectly.
Just because they have a few units right now doesn't mean they will maintain that same amount of units forever. By listing the skaven clan types as different factions they pretty much indicates they want to add more units to it. Adding 6 factions and considering the average size of a new armies to be around the same size as Fyreslayers, we can predict that there will likely be 16 different skaven units in the future.
Except some of these were used to replace the Generic Hero, like Skrolk and the Eternity Warden guy. And I don't see the Great Horned Rat intentionally keeping Skaven special characters immortal after the End Times(except Thanquol which TGH clearly favours for some reason).
The fucking StormCast are more metal than this piece of shit.
As a tomb king player, I have like 5 tomb princes and kings from fantasy. Why would I buy one? And if someone's new, they'd need an hq anyways, generally a lot less than in fantasy. Gw isn't Jewish because if this was fantasy he'd need to spend 200 dollars to field 1 block of 50 skeletons for them to be effective, as with aos you need only one character compared to the banner and hero and maybe Lord in fantasy. (unless you're making some op dearhstar blob that has a billion attacks and auto hits and wounds on 2, cough cough lizardmen) Aos is about making all units work in coherency, which is why every unit can go from okay to good with one character unit, while fantasy was about babysitting blocks of infantry with heroes and Lords and careful buff and item management
And 16 bucks for a character is cheap man, at least we don't spend 30 like the other guys
Good catch XD
Aelf highborn, aelf exile, aelf wanderer.
All new pointy ears!?
>fantasy was about babysitting blocks of infantry
It is tactics!
She's like 30cm tall. What are you going to use her for?
She also comes painted and costs about as much as varanguard. Sasuga GW.
And if AoS looked like this maybe some people would actually buy it.
Right, lets lets set this thread to more dwarvish standards.
ive got 10 longbears, 10 ironbreakers, 2 organ guns/cannons (interchangable barrels) and 16 warriros. how best to set up some or all of them, formation style for maximum efficiency?
the artillery close to cover so as to get 3+ saves on both the cannon and crew is a given.
but the rest?
Guess what? Quality IS objective.
Example: this art >>45068512 is worse than this >>45081022 and this >>45071107
It's not that you're not allowed to like these models >>45071129 >>45072109, but their design is bad. The animu sigmarine looks like (=is) just another copy of the same digital model, posed weirdly, covered in inscriptions to make it 'oh so detailed', floating over a whirlwind of blocky spaghetti.
Look at this fucker's horse >>45071129 Tzeentch head and try to tell me it's good. Not to mention the other equally stupid and derpy heads, its blocky anatomy, its ridiculous pose, these z-shaped wing digits, the skulls that drib randomly from its skin ... It's bad, the design of the heads is bad, the fucking 'smooth but with atomized weirdly placed details and stupid transitions' surface is bad, the pose is bad.
Compare with pic related and tell me again that's a quality worth of the most ichonic piece of Chaos, if not of the whole setting (considering that the other worthy ones have been squatted).
I usually use hws on Warriors in small groups. Going for the +1 to wound with GW isn't effective if they all get killed before piling in. The Longbeards should be held in reserve so they can buff. I usually give them GW and have them charge in where they're needed most.
Ironbreakers ofc protect your war machines. In this force they'll be your biggest damage dealer.
>Implying AOS design is not objectively bad
sounds good, ive been thinking of formations, i can imagine an inverse V to work well for minimising the attacks against you while maximasing your own attacks, are there more usefull shaapes? (i can immagine an ironbreaker blob filled with longbeards in the middle might work for obvius reasons)
so who's been updating the big book of rules? I see a 2.2 with StormCast battleplans, do you plan on adding the ones from the Khorne Bloodbound, Seraphon, and Everchosen tomes?
A lot of people seem to be enjoying Clash Comp., & are looking forward to SCGT's FWIW . . .
Very basic stuff
-Generally, any time your models can reach the enemy, the enemy can reach you. Attacks with >1" range and shooting break this so watch out for that.
-Think less about formation(shape) and more about location.
-You want to screen your weaker or important units with fodder and plan engagements that give you a numerical advantage dice or models wise.
-Make weaker models fight against your stronger models on a small frontage to deny them attacks and vice versa; Don't let your Mobs get bottlenecked by superior troops.
-Use terrain to your advantage. Both for the cover save and for the special rules.
-Mobs can use damned terrain to sacrifice a couple weak models to gain advantage.
-Camping in deadly terrain makes enemy units take mortal wounds for charging you.
-Impassible terrain is great to block for artillery and bottleneck opponents and terrain that blocks line of sight is great for Grudge Throwers and other units that don't need los.
>though this dragon's doing all the work. He's not doing shit.
Still alive, still abducted by Elfbros Inc., and beaten to give up the elves. Still being sought by its followers. We don't know what's coming next, so we'll have to see. I for one am beginning to dread it, as I don't want skaven special char treatment for my elves - especially Alith Anar, that shooting reroll is too good to lose.
>Still alive, still abducted by Elfbros Inc
>We don't know what's coming next, so we'll have to see.
Do you know when we'll know what will happen next? :curious:
> I for one am beginning to dread it
I would as well.
This is a leak from the next update, links to it all is in the start of the thread somewhere.
It doesn't mean shit since we know the Slaaneshi are split in a civil war between loyalists and traitors who want to be the new Slaanesh so it could just be traitor legions (neither possible pun intended).
>This is a leak from the next update, links to it all is in the start of the thread somewhere.
Thank you for this sir and I would like to point out that it is quite rare that I end up at this page so I usually just ask the question (that I've previously asked) and then get out of the thread (because there is usually no answer to it).
>It doesn't mean shit since we know the Slaaneshi are split in a civil war between loyalists and traitors who want to be the new Slaanesh so it could just be traitor legions (neither possible pun intended).
Indeed. I am curious though because I have played that particular gods armies before (to clarify my position, in fantasy), and I admit I should have looked closer at OPs post if it is there.
It isn't in OP, someone posted it further in the thread.
Here ya go.
We've mostly been complaining about how nothing happens onscreen unless Sigmar, Archaon, or Nagash is involved.
>It isn't in OP, someone posted it further in the thread.
>Here ya go.
>We've mostly been complaining about how nothing happens onscreen unless Sigmar, Archaon, or Nagash is involved.
Hopefully the answer is soon here then. I don't even play Sigmar but I am curious in what direction they will take the game.
Again, thank you.
I hate everything about Age of Sigmar but I still check out the battletomes, novels, and audio dramas. Help.
>I hate everything about Age of Sigmar but I still check out the battletomes, novels, and audio dramas. Help.
You are not alo-... No, you are sadly alone. Personally there are some, small, particular things that I am curious about in a "morbid" fashion. For instance, what happened to Slaanesh. Besides that though I really have no interest.
I never mention it though, I just did (?), and in the end I am happy really happy for people that enjoy "neo-Warhammer".
>Not him, but I'm watching because when/if Fantasy comes back it'll probably be the sequel to this.
Personally, sadly I don't think it will come back my friend. It is a bit sad isn't it? Even if it would, it would probably be a vastly different thing from the game that we grew up with (just see the name of the units these days (Sigmarines and Khorne whatever)).
>They're not getting my money for any if it though.
They should not and they will not get my money either. In the end though we are sadly the minority in this case. Warhammer Fantasy is sadly dead.
That's fluffy. The Grimwrath Berserkers are Fyreslayers but they don't coordinate with them once a battle starts and their runes activate. They are consumed by the force of Grimnir's spirit.
Reminder that there is giant rats larger than the Chaos Gods between the Realms.
One day, very soon, there will be a picture of an over-designed new Keeper of Secrets on the GW homepage. He will have eight tits and a giant erection and the caption right under the boner will say
>SLAANESH IS COMING
Oh, its an autistic representation all right.
But in all seriousness, Skaven now apparently outnumber bacteria and greenskins thanks to Skavenblight existing on and between all planes.
At this point, they have a Skaven ecosystem where rats are Squigs.
Those giant rats are not alive, they're just what clouds look like in Age of Sigmar.
"Rat dick in morning, sailors take warning. Rat dick at night, Slaanesh's delight."
>Exalted Hero of Chaos
This'll go down well.
Nice to see the familiars back though, always thought they were neat.
Just about legible version from the book's preview page.
Most people here don't, we're spurned Fantasy fans following the lore like watching a train crash montage, 40k fans who are worried about GW direction, and the odd interested individual.
Only a few actually like and play AoS, and most are the bitchy and overly defensive minority.
>Exalted Hero of Chaos
Hey, Undivided is canon again. Or all characters other than Archaon are generic, to be painted in the colors of theur master.
Oh, and at least there's still Slambo. He comes with a retinue.
He didn't say he was buying AoS models, I'd bet he's buying Fantasy secondhand.
Not him, but the new Nurgles are good and I really liked the Mortarchs even if their mount was silly. Nagash was okay, not very fitting but not a bad model.
Also, you forgot the shitty Archaon.
Tried a few games, find the game fun. This is basically the main reason.
Can use my old models. I also like the way the models look on round bases.
Can build new armies without worrying about restrictions (i.e having to paint (and it's the painting that's a problem more than the money) more core than I want to).
It's what my local club plays for fantasy.
Haven't yet been persuaded by any competitors
>Warmahordes models don't press my buttons, (big bodies on little legs,) and the childish competitive drive (pic related) turns me off.
>Kings of War seems to favour the bullshit that annoyed me in old fantasy with manipulating exact angles - maybe it's more "tactical" but armies don't work like that, it feels like playing the game system rather than the scenario. The effective lack of a setting doesn't appeal either. Also with all the kickstarters Mantic run I can only assume they're either utterly incompetent with money or taking the piss.
>I'm waiting on 9th Age because it's still in flux, wouldn't want to build models a certain way then have the rules change on me.
>X-Wing (yeah, it's not fantasy but seems to come up a lot as a game people move to) just...doesn't seem that cheap. A single x-wing or tie fighter in the local store is £13.50. A flight of 3 is therefore around £40, and squadron is over £100. Maybe I've misunderstood the normal battle sizes, but I'm going on typical sizes from the old x-wing/tie fighter games.
>The one that I do want to get into is dystopian wars, specifically the naval stuff. But no-one near me plays it. :'(
Dude, X-Wing is only like 3 ships unless you're running a TIE, Scyk, or Headhunter swarm.
Starter set+X-Wing single pack+Millenium Falcon=legit force.
Or Starter+Rebel Aces+any other ship.
The thing is, once you get your three you start eyeballing other ships, just because they're neat, and end up with like half the ships out.
But with self control? Game is like $100 for everything you'll need, and competitive.
>>Totes not Sanguinary Guard
I happen to like the Sanguinary Guard too. My personal favourite Stormcast is the Lord-Castellant
>>Naked Jewish Dwarves
Not such a fan of the Fyreslayers, but then I never really like Slayers of Dwarf models in general.
>>Blood(_____) and Gore(_____)
Naming conventions don't diminish a model's quality in my eyes. The Blood Warriors look very Khorne, which I dig, and the Bloodreavers are awesome and what I always wanted Marauders to be updated to be.
My biggest complaint against AoS miniatures is the up-size in scale, not bad in and of itself but still.
The average game size in X-Wing is 100 points, anything above that is a whole different ruleset.
The average ship is 22 points, then you factor in upgrades.
You barely buy anything.
Check 1d4, its the best guide available and is one of the best articles the site has.
Why not historicals? Dozens of rule sets, all with varying engagement and mini scales+cheap minis that are produced by everybody and their mother. And if you don't have any players in your area, it's an easy sell.
Also, X-Wing is cheap as hell.
Eh. I dunno. Like I say, maybe I'm stuck in thinking of the numbers of fighters you'd have in an average mission in the vidya, but 4-5 ships per side going at each other doesn't feel like a space battle in my mind.
The most expensive the basic game gets is a TIE swarm, 8 ships.
That's if you buy online, it's a bit more buying from a FLGS.
But still, the most popular wargame on the market with >$150 entry.
Plus GW is salty as fuck about it, at an investors meeting someone suggested prepainted minis to compete with X-Wing and their head guy said "We sell models, not toys."
I'm kind of curious if they're going to bring back human realms, like the Empire or Bretonnia, or is this just gonna be Herohammer 2.0
Well, lets say you want to play an Epic game.
You get the starter, the really big ship for your faction, a regular big ship, and three more fighters (as much as was ever on the screen at once even in Return).
That's less than $200.
If you get fancy as fuck and buy a printed magnetized game mat, that's about $220. The entry price for the cheap Warhammer Fantasy armies.
You may see them next year, assisting the Sigmarines against Khorne. Sigmarines win, barely, but Chaos is content they'll win in the end.
Then, only plots about how Chaos is beating them offscreen.
Oh, and ALL characters will be renamed "Hero Of Mortals".
There's "armies of Azyrheim", who have been said to march out after the stormcasts struck. But, we know basically nothing about them yet.
There are tiny human realms clinging on, or rebuilding as chaos gets pushed back, but probably nothing coherent enough to make an army out of.
Depends, your choices on what to use matter more. "Fat" builds are just two ships, and all three factions can do them.
The aberage Rebel ship is worth more points, but only enough to mean maybe one or two less upgrades for them.
See, every ship has multiple pilots. So a stock TIE can range from 17 to 25 points without upgrades.
My list two Force Awakens TIE Fighters from the Starter Set and two single packs.
Traitors ain't got shit on me.
Araby was destroyed by Skaven, along with every other human nation in the west plus Nippon.
Daemons destroyed Ind.
Ogres and greenskins united under Grimgor, who rampaged Cathay.
A large chunk of Cathay in the north made it to the final day though.
You know I was sad to see Empire, Bretonnia and all the other human kingdoms go, but seeing what AoS has become, maybe for the best.
Honestly, if they did bring back the Empire/Bretonnia, they just stuck kissing the ass of the Sigmarines. Which is annoying, because what I liked about WHFB is that the humans didn't have a group of super human demi-gods to help them out. It was up to them alone who held back the darkness.
Now the only role normal humans play in AoS is to be killed by Chaos or turned into Sigmarines.
Dead, they just kinda got killed off screen.
Someone mentioned a while back that Arkhan had an accent.
There is also Barrascuna a kingdom that resisted the Age of Chaos that is not!mediterranean country, from Chaos advent stories.
Neferata is probably just a pale like, you know, a vampire.
Because nobody likes PC names due to the fact they're fucking long.
Wanna know why nobody actually says "African American"? Because black is one syllable.
Han is the exception, because everyone is so used to typing Asian on the computer.
It is magic, necrophiliac one.
>There's "armies of Azyrheim", who have been said to march out after the stormcasts struck
Most of them are combat engineers, work under Lord-Castellant to build fortification, wizards and magma jetting rod involved.
In Hysh, there are Tyrion worshipping state, wearing peacock like color, and have a warmachine call "Luminark".
You mean Stormcast wearing black armour?
And THIS shit has gotta be a mistake!?
>This kit contains sixteen Finecast Chaos Warriors, armed with Chaos hand weapons, halberds or greatblades. Supplied with sixteen Citadel 32mm Round bases.
They made the warriors finecast? I mean, they throw in halberds and greatweapons, love it, but failcast? Shit man...
The damage SJW will cause doesn't have to be recognized by them.
Its to public perception.
Most people aren't aware of Warhammer, or Age of Sigmar. Making playing Games Workshop games socially unacceptable can really hurt their business, as the kids they seem to be marketing to won't be able to ask mum for a starter set.
Looks like GW mean business with AoS. Clearing out old minis means they're going to be replacing them with something. So... I wonder what.
Also, I was reading Firedorf book, and it had one of those stupid "insult the model you're fighting to get a bonus" thing on one of the models, which was odd as fuck. Plus the 'big' formation had a 'make up an oath and say it to your opponent', but the opponent can literally go "nah" over and over, meaning you're fucked. In short, it's a terrible formation with no benefit unless you're going to play multiple battles.
Jesus Christ GW.
Also, why the fuck does it go "If your models are equipped with throwing axes", what do you mean 'if'? Why wouldn't they be? They aren't a weapon variant, I'm just going to say they're equipped with it and be done with it. There is no modelling required. I just go "yup, they have them". Why is an option given when the option to take them costs nothing?
Unless the option to equip them WILL cost something. That's the odd thing. WHFB 1st Edition didn't have points iirc, 2nd didn't either. 3rd was the first 'proper' book.
Do you think GW might be making it seem 'fun' so people buy models, then go "lol nope, you gotta work out points and shit now" in a 2nd edition? Which then follows with more rules and shit?
I'm seeing this more and more to be WHFB for the 21st century.
Skaven always outnumbered the Greenkin, you pleb.
It says so in their old WHFB army books. The most numrous race on the Old World.
Why do you people have a poor knowledge of the basics of fluff?
‘How so?’ Perun removed his helmet and shook out a mane of dreadlocks. His skin was dark brown, eyes a piercing green. A native of some desert land, overthrown like all the others.
>Lord-Celestant Thostos Bladestorm
Thostos removed his helmet. Underneath was a face framed by blond hair and a beard, square jawed and heavily featured beyond the norms of mortal men. His eyes alone seemed completely human, and only they had remained unchanged during his remaking. They were the same eyes that had once beheld Amcarsh in its dying days. But neither his eyes nor the sweat and dirt streaking his skin could hide the god-gifted power crackling within him
>listen to the audiobook
>Khornates are Russian accented
>Tzeentchian are Swedish accented
>Nurglites are Swedish and hill billy accented
>Undead are English
What is GW trying to say?
But the Brets and Warriors never took Albion, so that accent shouldn't exist.
Unless the Dorfs are Englishmen, and Nef learned it from the Dorfs she slaughtered in the Old World and made it a fad.
All things considered, it seems like Nagash is the best possible faction to end up in.
Chaos fucking destroyed Arkhan and Nagash but both are back. Meaning Chaos can't actually beat them.
You get true immortality, and Nagash isn't so bad a ruler either.
I think he beats out Nurgle.
>do the warriors there have halberds/great weapons like they do in the new box?
woah they added the halberds and great weapons to the standard warrior set? Are they resin bits or plastic? They still sell those weapons seperate on the GW site.
Nagash is cruel beyond measure.Outside of vampires, your only future is a mindless undead. Even vampires know that if Nagash wins, he will erase their free will that's why they always plot against him.
Also Nagash (un)lives as long as his realm endures. Archaon ultimate goal which is very close to complete ting is to drag all the realms into Realm of Chaos. There he will rule over them forever.
That's exactly what's going to happen. In order to coax him to lead their armies again. the Chaos Gods promised him that anything he conquered in the Mortal Realms will belong solely to him. They failed to foresee and comprehend Archaon's monstrous ambition. Archaon won't carve a petty kingdom from the bits and pieces of the Mortal Realms. He will have it all.
The Chaos Gods know better than break their promise to Archaon. He would make their lives a living hell.
the description says 'This kit contains sixteen Finecast Chaos Warriors, armed with Chaos hand weapons, halberds or greatblades. ', bu I don't see any halberds or great weapons on the sprues. In fact, the sprues seem to be the old plastic as well
>Again, Archaon knows better than this.
Dude, if you didn't read the fluff, don't comment on it. I tell you something that's right there in the fluff and your response is that i"it's not true"?
The Chaos Gods kept their promises to Archaon and when they don't, he takes what he was promised by force. He has the power to flip the Great Game of Chaos over their heads if he choices it.
By marshalling his daemonic and mortal legions to war against the Chaos Gods, like he did in the Age of Myth. He was as much their enemy as he was their ally.
Fuck, I'm arguing with carnac, aren't I? I have read the fluff, but there's no point arguing with mr selective memory. I'm out.
"Archaon can beat all the chaos gods put together." HA HA HA HA HA. You stupid twat.
You are arguing with somebody who is right and you have no argument.
Remember that the Chaos Gods have failed to destroy Archaon in the Age of Myth and that Archaon warred against the Chaos Gods in that time.
If you read that fluff, then you wouldn't be asking stupid questions.
>Archaon, Destroyer of Worlds. During the Age of Myth, Archaon waged wars across countless realities. He fought both for and against all four Chaos Gods, desecrating worlds in their name before slaughtering the champions sent to kill him. To the Chaos Gods he was both a powerful asset and a monstrous inconvenience, the very embodiment of Chaos.
The White Dwarf that came out during the Everchosen pre-prder. See the quote above.
Seriously, would be swell to have a conversation with people knowledgeable of the lore. But I guess it's too much to ask.
>The most successful and ruthless commander of the Age of Chaos was Archaon, the Everchosen. Known to many as the Three-Eyed King, he was the greatest of the mortal champions of the Dark Gods. Enemy armies fell before him like wheat before the scythe.
>Before the Daemon Wars – when the Chaos powers turned upon themselves – each of the Dark Gods demanded Archaon’s sole patronage. In refusing to choose a single deity, the Everchosen was forced to overcome each of the Chaos Gods’ wrath. Each power felt that if Archaon did not submit solely to them, then he must be destroyed lest he be lured into serving one of their brother-gods instead.
>Archaon overcame each of these trials, emerging stronger than ever. Tribes flocked to him, and from amongst them he plucked his champions. Archaon remained the foremost leader of mortal men – a master of countless hordes, and a commander of colossal beasts and monsters. Before his iron-armoured onslaught, the last bastions of the Realm of Light were swept away. It was Archaon who cast down the living idol that led the orruks of the Wildplains, and he that slaughtered the darkling beastfolk in the Realm ofShadow.
>In his wake, the Everchosen still planted the banners of each of the Chaos Gods, save only the Horned Rat, whom he disdained as unworthy. Archaon never doubted his vision of Chaos triumphant, of the Eight Realms merged into the Realm of Chaos, with himself as its overlord. It was his right.
>Ever fickle, the Chaos Gods eventually ceased in their efforts to slay Archaon. Khorne saw a warrior unbowed, a killer unmoved by politics or plotting. Nurgle saw a gifted corrupter – the swathes of destruction left by Archaon were fertile grounds for new plagues. Tzeentch – more suspicious than his brothers – saw in Archaon perhaps more than he had ever suspected. New gifts were bestowed upon Archaon, the Dark Gods once more anointing him Everchosen, demigod of Chaos.
>None stand above Archaon in the hierarchy of Chaos save the Dark Gods themselves. Under his upraised blade the minions of Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch, and Slaanesh bow low, the multitudinous legions of Chaos united into a single terrifying entity intent on the destruction of the Mortal Realms.
>A dark vision of martial majesty and brutal strength. Archaon commands every creature of Chaos to walk, slither, or fly across the Mortal Realms. He is the Exalted Grand Marshal of the Apocalypse, a title bestowed upon him by the Dark Gods themselves. More than this, he is the Everchosen, the champion who bears the mark of all four gods combined and who, by his very existence, does what even they cannot: unite the armies of Chaos. Such is the ture and terrible power of this champion of champions.
>Archaon embodies not just the might of a single god, but all four. In him, the servants of each of the powers see their paragon. He is the blood-drenched axe of Khorne that harvests the skulls of empires. He is the perpetual plague of Nurgle, which infects the realms with its rampant corruption. He is the impossible grand scheme of Tzeentch, which twists and turns in upon itself. He is the murderous excess of Slaanesh that drives men into fits of terrifying madness and homicidal ecstasy.
If people aren't going to read the lore, then I guess I have to drag it here.
>‘Here is a man who defies his own god, even while he serves him,’ it whispered. ‘Here is a man who is dedicated to Chaos, but to serve his own ends.’ The Many-Eyed Servant made a hideous sound which served it for laughter. ‘How Archaon will adore this one! How alike they are!’
>‘No one, and someone. I am the herald of Archaon. Go to him, fight for him. He will reward you. You hate the Lord of War. This is your chance to fight for something greater than a god.’
>I desire only revenge, thought Mir. I fight to live, so that I might become great in the eyes of Khorne and come into his presence. There I will offer up true worship, I will smite him down.
>‘As you wish, Ushkar Mir. Go to Archaon, in Shyish he awaits! Go toward the rising sun, there you shall find a gate amid the Arman Forests. It will take you to the Realm of Death! Go!’
Bits from "Call of Archaon".
Archaon is greater than any god!
>He would make their lives a living hell
>he takes what he was promised by force.
>He has the power to flip the Great Game of Chaos over their heads if he choices it.
Nothing in your quotes says this. He's warred against the chaos gods, yes. Nothing in what you've quoted says he can win.
But he has won.
The Chaos Gods failed to destroy him. They fear that if he threw himself and his legions into the Great Game of Chaos, he would devastate the balance and flip it over.
Who is the one with the selective reading now?
>Still better than what everyone else offers.
Why select a heartless tyrant when you can live as a freeman under any other god of Order?
You might as well sell yourself to Chaos while at it. At least they are not as much tyrannical as Nagash.
You cannot boot a Chaos God at out the Great Game. If it was easy, then the Chaos Gods, Khorne foremost, would have flung Slaanesh out a long time ago.
Also It wouldn't stop Archaon from ruining their game.
Now you're just making things up.
>They fear that if he threw himself and his legions into the Great Game of Chaos, he would devastate the balance and flip it over.
I re-read your four posts of lore. There is nothing in any of your quotes that suggest they fear him in terms of disrupting the great game or that he could flip the balance (whatever that even means). They fear him dedicating himself to one god, true, but at that point he's not the everchosen any more and he doesn't command the united legions any more, so it's pretty moot. I'm not accusing you of selective reading here, you're literally coming up with stuff not said in your own quotes.
I get it. You like Archaon. I'm not denying that he's basically the biggest badass in the setting, he absolutely is. But he's still not all you make him out to be.
>but at that point he's not the everchosen any more and he doesn't command the united legions any more, so it's pretty moot. I'm not accusing you of selective reading here, you're literally coming up with stuff not said in your own quotes.
What does Varanspire legions, all of those multitudes of Chaos warriors and daemons follow above all? Archaon. They are loyal yo him above all. How do you think it was possible for him to war against the Chaos Gods with their own servants it it wasn't the case?
Also he dedicating himself and his legions towards one god over all overs would flip the Great Game. The armies of opposing Chaos Gods would be utterly crushed and the Chaos God will reign supreme..
It's the same deal with Abaddon in 40K (see picture related)
Also if the Chaos Gods wanted him destroyed or punished for his transgressions, why didn't they simply withdraw their powers from him like they did with Be'lakor?
This implies inability on their part.
Because Order loses and Archaon is a cunt. A bigger one than Nagash, who at least has ambition rather than being an edgemaster because reasons.
Nagash is Napoleon, Archaon is Pol Pot.
Archaon doesn't want to reduce all existence into a grey wasteland where the only will that exists is Archaon's.
Nagash is Darkseod looking for the Anti-Life Equation. Archaon is a an evil version Conan who desires a daemonic multiversal empire from his Empty Throne.
Archaon by fault is less a dick than Nagash by the virture that he doesn't desire to extinguish the freewill of his followers. You can be yourself under Archaon's rule. Under Nagash? You are just an extension of his will.
Nagash wants to rule, Archaon destroyed entire universes "because".
Genocide is worse than conquering.
Only the strongest survive under Archaon, and let's face it; if you're on 4chan, that isn't you.
>Only the strongest survive under Archaon, and let's face it; if you're on 4chan, that isn't you.
I rather live as myself under Archain even for a short while, than serve Nagash forever as a mindless husk.
>X-Wing is cheap, because you only play 3 ships
No... Just no. >>45097679, you're absolutely right so don't listen to this man! X-Wing is the game of the most expensive, and hellish marketing system I have ever seen! Having said that, I have been playing GW for more than 20+ years, and GW market division looks like friendly folks when compared to Fantasy Flights elite economy division!
Heres how it works.
>Get ship A, but ship A is only good with cards from ship B and C. Buy those two ships as well, because ship C is also quite good, but you need duplicate cards from ship A, and two other cards from ship D. And to fix your fleet you also want ship E, but that takes cards from ship F and C.
This, basically is their marketing strategy, and it fucking works! Trust me, I gave X-wing a go, with a "ill try it on", and the players in this game are unreal! They will go through any length to maximize their fleet, and if you meet them without good load-up, you're fucked. You have to remember that this is a tournament game at its core, and many players play it just like that!
Dude, you're in an AoS thread. GW constructed AoS for kids, so they would have a good entryway in to the world of miniature wargaming. Besides, Warmahordes is a pretty fucking good game if you play it as intended (as a tournament game). Lots of tactics, and lots of list building.
I'm with you on this. Seems like a good contender for the players who wanted square bases and keep on playing Warhammer. But thats just my problem, why not just keep rocking the edition of Warhammer you liked the most?
I ain't shifted nothing. This has been the crux the of the debate.
Slaves with their minds and wills mostly intact. They can choose for themselves.
Too bad you lack the ability to appropriate it
There is no free will in a Warhammer.
Unless you are a player in the Great Game, and are thus retarded, you are a slave or are doomed.
Nagash gives absolute immortality, but the rare few have free will.
Nurgle gives near immortality, but you lose all physical pleasures and are even more his slave if you end up on top.
Archaon offers the same as Khorne but short term since you're just another shmuck in his horde on his personal quest to give the finger to everything and everyone.
I'm siding with Carnac on this one, mostly. I don't think the chaos gods fear him destroying them or their "balance". More they either don't want him to follow a single God or rebel against them for fear of being a pain in the ass to deal with, at least that's what the all sacred lore says. I actually kind of like where Archaon's motivations may be head though. If Archaon's wants a world ruled by men, no gods, no kings, then it would make sense to bring the Mortal Realms into the realm of Chaos. The chaos gods won't keep their promise, Archaon knows that, but what he can do with the Mortal Realms united with Chaos, is wage war on the gods from the heart of Chaos itself, thus creating a world ruled by mortal men.
No its not. There are, like in any board games, do´s and don'ts', and X-wing concentrate on equipment, pilots and loadout to make the buck. Tactics is a great part of it, but the loadout can greatly change the outcome of a game, and real players know this.
You are clearly a retard for suggesting this in the first place, but most likely you're just one of those posers roaming /tg/ trying to engage in conversations regarding games you never actually play. So stop being a troll.
>make a troll comment
>"yea well I'm like the guy who won that thing with the stuff you know, so you better watch it!"
gtfo you poser, you clearly haven't a clue on what your on about.
X-wing has a lot of skills in it, but to say thats everything just proves my point, you're a troll, and a bad one to boot.
Unless someone posts the balance of power book I won't accept this bullshit - all the previous books show the truth that archaon is even more a cocksucker than that piece of shit bel'afail
Are you unable to read? This, yet again, proves you must be a complete tard when it comes to this hobby. As you clearly haven't red my posts at all. I said nothing about skill not being a factor, in fact, I press that skill is indeed a factor, and that their marketing strategy lies in loadout of the ships.
Now you just look like a fail strawman, as you didn't even get the straws you picked right. So again, stop being a troll.