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Is it possible to play a Lawful Good Rogue?
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Is it possible to play a Lawful Good Rogue?
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Absolutely, so long as you're willing to swallow the "alignment is subjective" pill. I would say that under that context, the Operative from Serenity was a perfect example of a Lawful Good rogue.
>>
Yeah why wouldn't you be able to?
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>>45032830

I think you mean Lawful Evil. He systematically murdered all of Mal's friends so the crew would have nowhere to run.
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>>45032796
Rogue is a servant of the temple of pelor.
He's in charge of recovering lost/stolen holy items from thieves and tombs. Easily lg.

Doesn't kill needlessly, doesn't steal, turns bad guys into authorities if warranted. Gives extra coin to the needy. Helps others when he can.
>>
Lawful Good Scout? Yes.
Lawful Good Hunter? Yes
Lawful Good Spy? Yes
Lawful Good Rogue? Meh, the most you can do is make him Patriotic.
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>>45032796
Yeah, let's say a treasure hunter who searches ruins and dungeons to find relics for the kingdom's museum, and so has a decent knowledge of disarming traps and the like.
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>>45032907
He considered his actions necessary to improve the world, kind of a greater good type thing. I don't think a person who considers themselves evil would do that.
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>>45032796
>still using alignment
>not having detective rogues
>no "white-hat" spies who are actually decent people
>not even a sniper

Put your thinking cap on. It's not hard to make these concepts.
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>>45032796

Rogues don't have to be thieves.

Shit thread about something that is obvious.
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>>45032796
Yes. Just base them loosely on Indiana Jones.
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>>45032957
He also considers himself a monster unworthy to live in the perfect world he's creating, and admits he's doing the wrong things for the right reason. He's Lawful Evil, at least until he sees the real error of his ways at the end and lets the Serenity Crew leave without more problems.
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>class AND alignment systems
Can you be more of a plebian?
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>>45033162
>bends over to sniff his own farts
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>>45032796
yes
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As long as you realize that Rogue the class isn't tied to any particular character concept.
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>>45032796
A Lawful Good Rogue is just a spy in service of the state.
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>>45032796
Thiefcatcher.
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>>45032796
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>>45033256
Bond is chaotic for sure. He's always flaunting regulations and getting dirty.
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Of course. The rogue gets a warrant to search your home, you just don't know he has it yet.
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Planescape actually has a class dedicated to that. It's called Slayer of Domiel.
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Avenger
>>45033933
Isn't that BoED?
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>>45032907
So kind of like a Paladin? In fact yeah, he's basically a Paladin.
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>>45032796
IT BELONGS IN A MUSEUM
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Rogue != theif
So yes.
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>>45032796


Something like this!
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>>45036223
uh
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>>45034558
>>>45032796 (OP)
> IT BELONGS IN A MUSEUM

This guy nails it. Indiana Jones is a Lawful Good rogue, through and through.
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>>45032796
Monks are usually lawful because they follow an internal ruleset super intensely. Play a Good Rogue with one of those kinds of things.

It's relatively important that your internal rules look good next to standard fantasy world laws, but they don't have to be the same.
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Solid Snake might count in MGS 1
MGS3 Naked Snake definitely would
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>>45036338
Only Last Crusade Indy. Raiders Indy starts out as lawful neutral at best. The other two movies don't exist.
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Class in DnD is just a collection of mechanical concepts. Nobody actually says "I am a rogue" or "I am a fighter".

As long as you have an explanation for how you sometimes do a bunch of extra damage to enemies, and how you're good at detecting and disarming traps, you're whatever alignment you want.

Maybe you're a robot with tools and an environment-scanner, and your sneak attack is you using your laser sights to target a weak spot.
Perfectly valid rogue.
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>ctrl+f Bilbo Baggins
>0 results

seriously?
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>>45032796

Yep. It's just a skillset after all, it's what you do with those skills that counts.

...now I kind of want to play a LG Rogue diplomat, talk my way through what I can and resort to tricks and nonlethal takedowns when I can't.
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>>45036744
>ctrl+f robin hood
>0 results
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A rogue is simply a skill set. It gives you an idea of what they can do, what they're capable of, what they specialise in

I don't see how you couldn't roll any alignment variation with almost any class or subclass, given enough thought.
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>>45036949
Nah, Robin Hood's chaotic good. Hell, I'm pretty sure some explanations of character alignment specifically call him out as an example of chaotic good.
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>>45032994
But can I pickpocket as any of those?
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>>45032796
Yeah, be Batman
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>>45037336
Only if those character alignment explanations were written by pervidious Frenchmen.
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>>45036949

But he clearly wasn't lawful...so you are dumb.
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>>45037388
>can I pickpocket as any of those?

Do you really need my approval to do so?
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>>45036620
Temple of Doom could be a lot better, but it's tremendous as an inspiration for adventure design. Even over the others, as they have the protagonists going through more only-one-solution problems.
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>>45032957

In point of fact, the Operative outright SAYS that who he is and what he does are abhorrent and evil. So even were morality a matter of self-image (it isn't), even were alignment synonymous with morality (it isn't), then the Operative still wouldn't be LG by a long shot.
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>>45032796

> actually using alignment

D&D players, everyone! The most base form of roleplayer, who roleplay based on the character design of Harry Potter.

Try RPing actual human motivations and you will quickly see how childish and inane alignment is. But of course you never will because of sunk cost fallacy, which is the only reason anyone with more than 4 years of RPG experience still plays D&D.
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I'm not sure why Lawful Good sneaky guy is any less possible than Lawful Good warrior that kills people for a living. That being said, alignment is dumb and you should probably avoid it as much as possible. Make characters and then assign alignments to them afterwards if you must.
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>>45038756
>I used alignment wrong once and now I base all my opinions off of it
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>>45033577
there are no beginnings to the Wheel of Time... but it was A beginning...
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>>45038298
Really depends on the historical context. And remember all those versions where king John is the 'usurper', and Robin is loyal to Richard?
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>>45036223
see paladin
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>>45032796
Ye, by removing alignments from the system.

>>45032830
>"alignment is subjective"
>there are literally planes and creatures made of literal, physical Good and Evil

baka desu senpai
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one of my NPCs is a Detective Rogue working in the city guard
Less sleight of hand more perception, insight and investigation
Look less at the class name and more at the types of skills
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>>45032796
Someone once put up the idea of a Locksmith-turned-adventurer, hired to pick locks in a dungeon. A perfectly legitimate tradesman, who happens to know how to take apart locks as part of his business.
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>>45033790
>License to Kill
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>>45033746
>lawful good
>post image from the game where sam is a full blown rogue agent in the name of good
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>>45039747
license to kill essentially is giving an agent carte balnche to act outside of the constraints of the state and morality, aka being given permission to act outside of the law and to do evil in the name of good. privateers have letters of marque, but that doesn't make them lawful good
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>>45032941
Indiana Jones!
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>>45039747
Just because you're allowed to do something, doesn't mean you should.
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>>45040003
The older Harrison Ford gets, the more hilarious
>It belongs in a museum!

>So do you!
becomes.
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>>45032796
He's a perfectly normal locksmith who just happened to join an adventuring company. If you want to toss trapping in there, make some shit up about a famine and trapping vermin or something.
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>>45039485
Your mistake is playing in the settings that aren't Eberron.

Well, Planescape is cool. It's just tied to a system that has nothing to do with its ideas and themes.
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>>45032796
Sherlock Holmes, or any other good private eye.
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>>45037388
No need. Detain them and pat down for evidence.
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>>45040331
perfectly normal would imply True Neutral or Neutral Good though. What makes this particular locksmith Lawful Good?
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>>45040948
Neutral isn't one iota more "normal" than Lawful Good.

Somewhere down the decades Lawful Good has degenerated into perfect ubermensch who makes no bad decisions, and Neutral has degenerated into joe schmoe normal person. LG can be found in the most humble and ordinary of folk.
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>>45040638
There's no reason to have 'subjective alignment' when alignment is, per definition, what cosmic forces you are aligned with. Its like having what race you are be subjective (its actually conceivable to have a setting where there are, say, what amount to elves, halflings, dwarves and giants, all of which are considered human, incidentally).
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>>45039910
Not at all, a privateer is essentially the default operation of about 99% or more of D&D paladins and adventurers in general. They are roving bands of rough violent people who make snap judgments about who to rob, who to put down, who to spare and who to save.

Privateers are definitely not always lawful good, but the normal operation of a paladin is indeed to journey to the Caves of Chaos and put the enemies of civilization and justice to the sword.
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>>45032796
Its increasingly easy to have a Lawful Good rogue. Just have a rouge that is good natured, and have serious compunctions about breaking the law.
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Being a rogue is good for breaking the law.
Also rogue skills are probably the easiest way to catch a rogue.
Its also the most relevant to most remotely modern militaries (and I mean mentally, not tech level) -- fighters are only really relevant to very archaic formation fighting etcetera.
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>>45036223
Literally a paladin
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>>45041141
Better yet, play a rogue what is basically good and defend whatever interpretation of "lawful" supports your character concept, at least until everyone agrees to stop worrying about alignments.
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>>45036223
seems like a chaotic evil fighter cleric, or more likely an avenger or holy slayer. The Iscariot are not remotely good by the standards of their own religion and blatantly act against the way Christians in general and Catholics are supposed to act due to them believing that, like Iscariot, fulfilling what they imagine to be the will of God may require taking action that would damn them.

There's no trace of paladin style behavior -- no restricting violence to evil targets, or to hostile targets, or fighting fairly, or protecting the innocent, just huge amounts of savage murder meted out arbitrarily for any and all reasons, up to and including someone worshiping your God in slightly the wrong fashion (when, afterall, they themselves by their own admission also worship God in the wrong fashion).

Heretic/10
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>>45038874

Every use of alignment is wrong, because it is a wrong mechanic. It literally provides no roleplaying value.
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>>45041701
>literally no roleplaying value

Literally none? Bullshit. It gets you to sometimes play characters in different ways than you otherwise would and engages people all the time.

Not that I find it a very GOOD roleplaying tool but to say it has literally no value is BS.
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>>45041701
>It literally provides no roleplaying value.
>having assigned roles
>having no vale in roleplaying which is literally "playing roles"
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>>45041742
>>45041767

It is based off of unrealistic concepts of what motivates humans and thus results in unrealistic characters.

Also saying you wouldn't do something because "my character's CN" is fucking retarded as shit. An alignment is not a real human motivator.
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>Is it possible to play a [class] of [whatever alignment]
The answer is always yes
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>>45042086
Is it possible to play a lawful barbarian? A Chaotic Evil Paladin? A Non-neutral druid?
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>>45042153
In 5th edition? Absolutely!
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>>45042153
>Chaotic Evil Paladin

Basically a Sith Lord. A champion of dark gods and an avatar of violence

>Lawful Barbarian

Religious Zealot or "Noble Savage" who is fueled by rage, but lives by a code. I've actually played this.

>Non-Neutral Druid

The biggest bullshit alignment restriction aside from chaotic only bards. If a Druid can be LN or NG what's to stop them from being LG?
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>>45042248
>sith
>CE
Depends on the Sith and how batshit they are. The sane(r) ones tend to fall towards lawful or neutral evil.
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>>45042027
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>>45042153
You can't play an evil Paladin, because by definition they're good. Evil would be an anti-paladin, dark knight, whatever.
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Is Captain Flint from Black Sails (in seasons 1 and 2 at least) a lawful good pirate?
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>>45032796
I like to play my rogues as expert treasure hunters, dungeoneers, and explorers. So yes
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>>45042480
That's fair I guess, but you get what I'm saying.

>>45042519
Only because the easily ignored rules say so. If you want to get technical, Paladins can only be Christian. Open your mind a little, anon. Alignment should serve as a guideline and and inspiratio
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>>45032796
As the Rogue class is just skill user plus able to exploit openings in battle, absolutely.
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>>45032927
>>45032939
>>45038795
I don't think it works that way
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It's called a spy.
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>>45044567
But spies break the law and do illegal, immoral shit all the time.
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>>45032796
Samuel Vimes.
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>>45044858
How is Vimes a rogue? I see him more as a fighter.
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>>45032796
Silly question. In most systems, stealing and such aren't even necessary parts of roguery. Just be a lithe warrior good at scouting and finding traps.
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>>45032796
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>>45045018
Batman is chaotic good as fuck.
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>>45045083
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>>45040948
LG is equally common as TN according to RAW

This is just a guy who's good with machinery. He's punctual, disciplined and as reliable as any of the locks he makes. It's funny actually, he didn't want to go into locksmithing when he was younger (IIRC he wanted to run off and join the Knights of St Augustus fighting the vampires in the East or something) but of course it's the family business and he was always an obedient boy, always respected family and listened to his elder, so when his father said he was to be a locksmith well then he was going to be the best damn locksmith around and make his family proud. In the end I think he realised the business suited him, the precision and all that.
Nice guy too. Always attends church and I hear he gives generously to the almshouse. A bit rude, a bit set in his ways and he can be a judgemental bastard - don't bring up gypsies when he's around that's for sure - but he sure can be trusted.
>>
Wasn't Imoen Lawful Good?
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>>45046049
Nope, she was neutral good.
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>>45032796
Obviously. Rogue represents a skill set without moral content.
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>>45037336
Yeah, but they're based on poor interpretations of things, Anon.

Supporting the rightful king against a heinous usurper is the definition of Lawful.

Hell, even saying the words "rightful King" unironically probably kicks you a step towards Lawful.
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>>45033256
>Daniel Craig
>Lawful
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>>45046570
...and /thread

>>45046582

It's almost like he's a mythical/folk loric hero whose story has been told dozens of different ways or something!
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>>45046700
The point was not "Daniel Craig is lawful". It was "James Bond is lawful".
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>>45046761
Oh please. Almost every single characterization of Bond in the movies has a different alignment.
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>>45032830
>>45032957
>>
>>45033577
>>45039134

I am among my people
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>>45040948
I known modern locksmiths have to pass multiple background checks and go through a long apprenticeship to get their license while the master gauges whether or not the new guy is the sort to use his new skills to commit crime.

I am a property manager, and always have to come along when our locksmith opens doors for us. I would describe him as lawful good.
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>>45046807

If it must be done, it isn't evil. If the only way to derail a train that will poison an ocean for eternity is to have it hit a fat guy, then murdering a fat guy is by definition a good act.
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>>45047671
The Operative clearly disagrees (he seems to be a virtue ethicist rather than a consequentialist).
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>>45033180
Yeah I sniffed them and they are ok. It is what happens when you are not a cheeto muncher lardmonster, but a healthy adult who can tell what is bad for him. Like I know D&D is bad.
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>>45033577
Or a professional locksmith /trap expert who is called in to rescue people caught in vaults and whatnot. Also: EOD specialist.
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>>45047671
I'm not sure why some people have difficulty parsing the notion that killing the fat guy is still evil, even if not doing so would create a far worse scenario.

It's okay to regret and honor the sacrifice even when necessary.

Are you allergic to guilt or something?
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>>45048240
It's neutral at worst.
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>>45032796
Legally sanctioned burglary targeting corrupt officials.
>>
I don't see any reason you couldn't have one.

As long as they only pick locks/ remove traps that are in places they are legally allowed/supposed to get into by the higher authorities, there's no issue.

(Like being hired to kill a necromancer who lives on the kings land.)
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>>45033577
>Being a snitch
>No honor among thieves
Rogue falls.
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>>45048275
Fat boy had a family, hopes, dreams. In the hypothetical, he does not consent to his death, he is used to achieve our aims (noble though they may be), he is pushed.

Pretty evil, Anon, justified or not.
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>>45045083
>>
>>45032796
>Is it possible to play a Lawful Good Rogue?
in theory, yes.

in practice, might require some clever storytelling to make it coherent.
>>
>>45032796
someone dig up the 'catchphrases' post
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>>45044940
A Rogue/Barbarian multiclass. His Rogue side has proficiency in many Charisma and Intelligence based skills, like Intimidate and Investigation; his Barbarian side is self-explanatory.

"WHERE'S MY COW?"
>>
A black-ops type. A spy. A detective. Rogue is just a skillset.
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>>45032796
>alignment systems a shit: the thread
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>>45047671
>If it must be done, it isn't evil

Absolutely not. The lesser of two evils is still evil.

>then murdering a fat guy is by definition a good act.

No, saving the world is a good act. Murdering the fat guy is an evil act. This situation has aspects of both, but they don't "cancel each other out". You perform both good and evil, and ultimately your good act might outweigh your evil act, but that doesn't change that you still committed an evil act.
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>>45049808
See, people say this, but honestly some of the best philosophical and ethical discussions I've ever had where over the alignment system and the nuances therein. Certainly it's made me more thoughtful on the subject of good and evil and law and chaos than anything in the Bible or other holy text.
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>>45049522
>barbarian/rogue

What a wacky and original character concept
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>>45049808
>I hate thinking too hard
ftfy
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>>45036949
So let me get this straight; You rob from the rich?
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>>45039179
I suppose from one point of view it was "Robin Hood and his band of complete lunatics."
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>>45048379
He dies to save the world and is sanctified.
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>>45049973
Not the rich explicitly, that's just how the plebs see it.

Actually, I'm an aristocrat who hates another aristocrat because my alliances with a third aristocrat caused his faction to screw me over. Now because I disagree with the governance of the usurper John (the head of that faction) I've rallied a populist movement around me so that I can fight a partisan guerrilla war against his lackeys in Nottingham.

Since I rely on the people for protection and shelter, I periodically throw around fistfuls of their own tax money that I've stolen back from the Sheriff's collectors to convince them that I mean them well, when in fact this protracted conflict has only hurt them as the Sheriff terrorizes them looking for me and raises taxes to cover the damages I cause.

The rich, which is to say, other aristocrats, are generally speaking safe from me, because they are part of the same political class that I am, and I have no intention of bringing them down or of disrupting their lives--I just want my faction to return to power. At the end of the day the pleb is still going to be the pleb, and I am still going to be a Baron.
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>>45050002
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>>45032796
I don't know man, but if that picture's a LG rogue I need more LG rogues in my media.
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>>45049916
To my knowledge, only Conan and Vimes have truly done this right.
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>>45032796
Yeah. By stealing back stuff other rogues stole and giving it back to the people that had their shit stolen. And done so in a secretive way so that people won't mistake you for the actual thief.
>>
rogue
rōɡ/
noun
1.
a dishonest or unprincipled man.
"you are a rogue and an embezzler"
synonyms: scoundrel, villain, miscreant, reprobate, rascal, good-for-nothing, ne'er-do-well, wretch; informalrat, dog, louse, crook; datedcad; archaicblackguard, picaroon, knave
"a rogue without ethics"
2.
an elephant or other large wild animal driven away or living apart from the herd and having savage or destructive tendencies.
"a rogue elephant"
verb
1.
remove inferior or defective plants or seedlings from (a crop).
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>>45044802
But they usually break the law in foreign countries so who cares? As far as their bosses are concerned out of sight, out of mind.
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>>45041563
It is shown that Alexander is against the massacre of London and primarily kill vampires. Chaotic Evil does not fit.
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>>45051697
Rogue: (n) A lightly armored, skill and finesse based class in the Dungeons and Dragons role playing games.

Nice bait, though.
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>>45050105

Just wanted to say I like this interpretation of Robin Hood.
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>>45034558
Fuck, beat me to it.
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>>45033065
Actually doesn't that make him Chaotic Good?
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>>45036223
Guys, Clerics were basically invented to play Van Helsing-type undead slayers.
He's a Cleric, not a paladin
>>
>>45052138
Silence you louse!
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