I feel blue edition
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First Question: Why are Trollkin so cute?
Better Question: A shop near me if have a sale on it's on Trollbloods stuff. What would better to get? The new Kriel Warriors box set (Comes with 10 warriors, plus 2 of those pillar throwing guys) or a box 3 Long Riders (I already have one from a blister pack, so I would need one more to make a full set.)
Rök resculpt incoming in March.
So, new player here. I like defense armies - they're sorta my thing, in every game I play. Armies that are a frustration to kill, ala Mei Feng's crew in Malifaux or Necrons in 40k. My friends suggested Convergence for me, specifically Lucant, so this is what I'm looking into buying - is this smart for doing what I want to do?
Optifex Directive: 2
10 Obstructors: 6
6 Reciprocators: 9
Enigma Foundry: 3
Should I go in on this, or should I go for a different army for what I'm looking to do?
Honestly, If you've played Necrons I'd avoid Convergence. Yes they're similar, and yes they're probably a team that fits what you're asking for but also you're basically just playing the Warmahordes version of Necrons.
There's other defensive armies, that are more fleshed out.
You definitely have the right caster for what you are trying to do. Your list also sounds good. To focus more on the retaliatory aspect you could replace the Cipher+Inverter (and 1 more point from somewhere) with a Prime Axiom. There are few models that can kill it in a single turn and when they try, you repair it, turn it's armor up to 24 and smash whatever they sent in.
Your list is however very viable regardless.
But 40k and Warmachine are entirely different games. That alone should make for enough of a difference.
Reposting this list for more critique and some advice for bringing it up to 50.
Max Errants + UA
x2 Vassals of Menoth
Might add a judicator and go from there. Thoughs?
>you could replace the Cipher+Inverter (and 1 more point from somewhere) with a Prime Axiom
Wouldn't it be better to have more models, because of Shield Guard? Also, the Cipher allows me to throw out Flare, which seems sort of important?
I completely don't mind Necrons 2: Electric Boogaloo. That said, who would you suggest for 'other defensive armies'? Also, how would I flesh the one I have there out to 50, if I was going to?
>Wouldn't it be better to have more models, because of Shield Guard? Also, the Cipher allows me to throw out Flare, which seems sort of important?
It's a trade-off. Both options are viable. You lose a Shield Guard, the Flare and your Watcher moves, but gain threat range, durability and servitor utility.
>other defensive armies
Ugh, no. Don't like how they look at all.
> You lose a Shield Guard, the Flare and your Watcher moves, but gain threat range, durability and servitor utility.I'll think about it. For now, since I'm just getting in, I'm thinking having more models is a bigger deal because it allows for more mistakes.
First army? Probably Khador. Merc are too restrictive with all those contracts. Rhulic jacks only with Rhulic casters. Cephalyx pretty much another mini-faction within a faction with most of the stuff unusable outside of it. And most of units and solos being FA:C.
Oh, just make sure you're not choosing Khador because you like having the biggest, stompiest robots. A lot of people go for Khadaor because of the 'jacks and are disappointed to find out that they rarely run more than one in a list.
So the most recent Primecast ended with:
"Thunderhead is looking amazing with that resculpt"
"Wouldn't it be awesome if they did something for Khador, or Protectorate, or even Cryx?"
"We better shut up now before we get fired"
Anyone else care to join me in the front carriage of tHE HYPE TRAIN!?!
A new-ish player is coming from infinity and would like to try a city based map. I think it might be fun to try something different so I offered to play him in a 25 point game with 15+ pieces of terrain. I know the game isn't ballenced for this but I think it will be a fun experiment. anyone here have any similar stories?
You're in the right faction and using the right caster. List looks fine at a glance, I would replace the obstructirs with a minimum unit of reductors, as they can hide behind the recips and spray through to kill whatever they're jammed with. I can talk a lot more about this later if you're around, strats and tactics and the like.
Dense terrain maps are my favorite with WMH. It causes a lot of usually useless units to suddenly get fun to play with because of weird rules interactions, and the strategy of being able to be above or below things in a significant way totally changes how you move a lot of your faster models.
You'll just need to decide if Pathfinder works on buildings, which lets a lot of critters wind up just walking through everything. I'd recommend not.
as a legion player who doesn't try to make people hate me, I'm going to say no pathfinder over buildings lol arcing fire counts building as models for the purpose of ignoring them. buildings cannot be entered but can be stood on and destroyed. I'm not sure what scenario I would use yet. maybe a capture the city square one?
Please do. I was considering the Obstructors just because they have shield wall and a slight armour buff - The idea was to overwhelm the opponent with high-armour options, and diluting that is questionable to me.
Sadly no. My current Retribution collection is as so:
Garryth, Ravyn, Kaelyssa, Ossyan, Thyron, Rahn.
Hyperion, Imperatus, Hypnos, Vyre pinned, Shyeel pinned, Chimera.
Elara, Sylys, MHA, Magister, Arcanist, pEiryss, AFG.
Electromancers, Aiyana & Holt, MHI &3iryss, MHSF & UA, & Stormfalls.
I know I need to pick up some Halbs and an Arcanist. They are probably my next purchases. I also wanna grab a Voidtracer (love the model)
Just finished building my converted minimum Choir. Lots cheaper than buying a new box of six. Opinions?
I personally don't care for Judicator with Sevvy. I find Eye of Menoth does more work with more models on the board. Avatar is great with Vision on him, Zealots are fantastic under Eye, and Aiyana and Holt help crank your Errant/Zealot damage a little further.
the rules haven't been release yet. I bet it's gonna bet as a set with an electro caster or some electro infantry then they wont get another release for years.
this thing + syntherion modulator spam could be really fun
Thematically Cryx are a bit closer to Necrons. They're also gunmetal and spooky green in colours. The only thing Convergence has in common with Necrons is that most of them are robots.
I honestly don't care that much about the thematics - to quote a friend of mine, I'm not playing the fluff. I'm mostly worried about the mechanics of being nearly unkillable, or at least a pain in the arse to take down.
I'd be happy with almost anything at this point. But a new caster would definitely give the most bang-for-buck so to speak. I mean it's been almost three years since the faction came out and we haven't had anything new.
The issue with terrain in warmahordes is that its just a mechanism for slowing down non pathfinder models, granting cover or obscuring LOS. The issue is that there are entire factions based around ignoring this and then there are factions who are completely at the mercy of it.
It's not like Infinity where the terrain is an active part of the fun.
This. I think DJ got the best sculpt of the original run of Character/Unique Jacks. Avatar was easily the worst. It was short, scrawny, and just used banners/tabards to make up for its lack of real size. Thing was meant to be a walking church and just looked like a well dressed anorexic crusader with WoW shoulderpads.
since we are both going into it with the number of terrain involved, I expect it will just adjust the usefullnes of certain models. for instance, I don't plan on bringing a ravagore at all but a carnivean might not be overcosted anymore
Then Convergence are closer than Cryx is most senses. They've got a lot of stuff that repair other models, and can put killed models back into play etc. Plus they can be durable as fuck, unlike Cryx who are closer to being a glass cannon faction with stupid-powerful Warcasters.
Its all metal and his hands are stupid big. I bet he weighs more than Terminus.
I mean, convergance is just very limited as a faction, plus the modles SUCK to assemble/paint. If you want something tanky i guess skorne is a good bet, cryx can be hard to kill just because of stealth/incorp/tough/facetank casters, trolls can also be beefy but im not sure if Meat Mountian is in a good place, beast brick is still fine
The Behemoth is pretty bad too, though not as.
The biggest, heaviest non-colossal warjack ever constructed should not be standing in a mid-stride pose. Especially not one where it looks he is slipping on a banana peel.
Definitely. The behemoth's big problem is the pose.
If I played Khador I would have honestly picked up the extreme sculpt and converted a behemoth on that chassis. Then taken the Behemoth body and converted it into Karchev.
I could dig it. Maybe do another forge master like the one who built the modulator. Could also be Orion since it looks like he's got some energy based weapon.
My friend had a neat idea for a caster unit, like the twins, that were built around magnetism.
Ok, so now I can type and lay some stuff out.
First and foremost, I'm talking competitive here. It's how I play, it's how I build my lists, so keep that in mind when I'm saying certain things are good or bad.
So, Obstructors. First and foremost: Shield Wall can be a trap. It's a rule that can absolutely lose you the game if you don't know when to not use it, and having a huge portion of your list depend on it defensively makes an already slow caster even slower.
In addition to that, Obstructors don't make their money by being unkillable with Shield Wall. They make their money by being hard to kill with Shield Wall and having 6 of them brought back a turn with the Engimas.
Recips, on the other hand, make their money being unkillable. So your list has two units both doing the same thing, and you're losing offensive potential for it. You're also overstressing your Engima Foundries, because they want to cover both units, but can really only support one.
This is why Reductors are better for pairing with the Recips. They let the medium base unit take it to the face, and then they can kill whatever hit them, before the Recips activate and walk forward again.
So, Colossal vs heavies issue. You are correct in that you get an extra shield guard with the heavies, and some extra utility, but the Prime Axiom also provides utility(it can pop out the servitors to do various jobs, for example, such as flare bots), it has some immunities that regular heavies don't, and it gives Lucant's Positive Charge spell more bang for it's buck. Both lists are entirely valid, they just do different things. Which one I choose is heavily based on what I need Lucant to do and what I'm pairing him with.
Ok, so let's talk some Bullshit. Lucant is already considered by some to be an absolute bullshit caster(I tourneys, my general goal with Lucant is to force them to lose by time, which pisses some people off), and Lucant has an amazing amount of defensive mechanics to fuck with an opponent. Some of them are pretty obvious(Shield Guard, Feat), but let's talk about Watcher.
So, Warmachine is rules as written, with very tight descriptions(most of the time). This means that spells do exactly what they say they do, and only that. So, Watcher let's you move a jack in your battlegroup, and then let you choose to make an attack. Fine and dandy, but the important thing is the wording on the ending of the spell. Notably, Watcher only ends when you make that attack. So if you move a model and don't attack, Watcher is still going.
Say your opponent charges your heavy with his heavy? Walk him out of range, and then do nothing. Sure, you still take the freestrike, but it does the same damage as the charge attack(and even less, at times) and then he's hanging out in the open, getting to do nothing, and Watcher is still going. So if he does it again? Walk away some more.
Now, say he send something in on your caster. At this point, you walk your Inverter up to his thing and punch with that knockdown penis analog. And now his big thing he wanted to do big things with is sitting there, on the ground, right in front of your hard hitting caster.
Watcher is an incredibly frustrating spell for your opponents if you know what you're doing, because you will simply refuse to let him make contact with your already hard to kill shit. It takes a lot of finesse and practice to do this, but if you can manage it right, certain armies are just going to pull their hair out.
Well it is though. The helmet is different, the smoke stacks are updated and better, and the pose actually makes sense. If you spin the model around you can see the robe's sleeves actually make sense now. It's not a huge update, sure, but the techniques used are much better.
Well, my point was that it might further imbalance things in the arcing fire's direction, placing a much greater value on the arcing fire model than would normally be. I think the normal rules for it would probably be fine.
Back again with the 50. How does this look?
Max Errants + UA
x2 Vassals of Menoth
Again I am pretty new to list building and wargaming in general. I have yet to try pSevvy, but I have the basic idea that I want to blast the shit out of everything.
Looks pretty decent, you just have to keep Sevvy covered since he is so squishy. You might want Rhupert as well to give your errants tough. I went in a little different direction with my pSevvy list, due to models available mostly.
Max Errants + UA
x2 Vassals of Menoth
The idea being that four 4" fire templates and the errants fully supported with the seneschal, gravus, rhupert and book can kill any amount of troops, while the Avatar and vanquishers for backup handle the heavies. It has worked out pretty well for me.
About twenty years or so, I started when I was really small. Got hooked on the plastic crack when I was about 10. Most of those models are painted to a high tabletop standard, I would say, I haven't broken into a lot of advanced techniques but I do alright. This guy is one of the ones I'm more proud of, even though the picture reveals a few spots I messed up on.
That was really easy, I just clipped off the chain where I wanted it, clipped off the ball, and used a drill to hollow out the spot where the chain meets it so it would fit inside and look nice. Hot water was then used to reshape it how I wanted. This guy is the permanent vanquisher, the other is magnetized so I didn't do a whole lot for the pose.
I've played for a bit, just need something fresh, and those are the least played at my lgs
Sevvy is one of my favorite casters. Though in my list, he's pretty much a Eye of Menoth and focus battery. He supports his army really well though, but I find he's generally more effective against warmachine armies than hordes. For my hordes drop I was working on Durst, though I'm still not sure how to build his lists. I have been trying out his theme list at tier 4.
Temple Flameguard full
It's worked pretty well, Durst and battlegroup except for the sanctifier to one side, the flameguard and sanctifier to another. Paladins get advance move, generally away from enemy magical weapons. I'll have to play it more to see if it pans out.
I like ashlynn because she puts people on tilt and crit fishing is funny, but damiano is really funny. The thing that might make or break the choice for me is that I'm not a huge fan of colossals
Well Durgen turns up the Earthbreaker assassination to 11. It's not strictly necessary, but it's really really good. If you don't want to go for the assassination that turn it also has really good utility with the knockdown or rough terrain 4" aoes.
Ossrum is good with the earthbreaker because of snipe, but other than that is kinda boring. That's why I love Durgen so much. He has plenty of ranged game himself, and you never need to allocate more than one focus to the Earthbreaker. The feat is all about the blast damage, but too much takes a lot of time so it's generally limited to him and the earthbreaker. Primed is honestly his best spell, and it's really funny to watch your opponent try and deal with them. I generally cast it on fast troops, maybe steelheads, or my favorite is Kayazy Assassins. You just have to watch out for enemy ranged threats. I also take Alexia and the Risen, there is a slight skornergy with the primed spell rfp'ing the target, but you still get the corpses for whatever they kill and other troops. Then later game primed goes on the huge skeleton squad, and that's just hilarious.
All in one boxes were a limited release. If you find one you want, grab it. The cephalyx one is good, but keep in mind that they are just one contract to mercs and you might want to expand into other armies, that would require pretty much completely separate models since they do not share models between the puppet masters contract and others. Mercs can be pretty expensive.
The cephalyx are one subfaction of a larger faction.
while most all in one boxes have a lot of good models for their faction, the cephalyx box only has good cephalyx models and no other models for the other subfactions in the faction. so you will have to buy a completely new army if you wanted to expand.
compare this to the other boxes where almost everything you get is useful across your entire faction and it seems like a nesbie trap.
the box is still a great deal though
I've always been a fan of Cephalyx and was really tempted to buy into them as I already have a fairly large amount of Mercenaries but alas I've moved to mainly playing Retribution & Gators and want to focus my limited $ on those currently.
Someday I really wanna get some psychic slavers though. I love their fluff and aesthetics.
If you already have a bunch of mercs and can find an AiO, go for it!
no the thing about it is you will litterally only have one army. most tournaments require you to have 2 lists. and while it is possible to have 2 lists using only cephalyx, you wont be able to cover all of your bases as well as if you had say a dwarf army to go with them. and as I'm sure you can guess, that will be expensive.
If I buy the Legion of Everblight AiO, all i need to buy is a new caster and maybe a few more models. I don't need another 200 dollars worth of models to be competative.
if you aren't worried about money of being competative, get whatever army you want. cephalyx are cool
Just ordered my Winter Guard Death Star at my FLGS and it'll be here by Friday.
What kind of shenanigans can I anticipate out of this? I'm a bit new to Khador and Warmahordes in general.
Can't swap out my warcaster due to the rules of the Journeyman League at the moment. We have to use the caster that came in our main battle box (pSorcha). Would the Fog of War ability do as a "good enough"?
And yea, I've got the whole deal on the way, Kovnik Joe with Officer & Standard in addition to the Infantry and some
so Right now I am Building a Cygnar army which currently only consists of
Siege Brisbane as my warcaster,
and a squad of Stormguard.
I plan to get a journeyman warcaster to either dole-out Arcane shield as needed or give focus to the charger, still working that out.
after that a squad of gun mages, plus colonel attachment and a hunter attachment to the colonel.
however what I'm wondering is after that what to go with....
I was thinking commandos, seems like Anatomical precision is a pretty neat way to get rid of single wound models with a lot of armor.
I don't know, what advice does the warmahordes players of /tg/ have?
Siege's feat lets you get rid of single wound models with a lot of armor, so there's little point in doing that.
You're better off looking for something that can hit decently hard, so as to make the best use of his feat. I'm trying to think of a relative newbie answer for this question, but I don't know Cyngar so well. I know everyone and their mother runs a Stormwall with him, but I don't want to suggest that to you right off the bat. Just not Commandos.
Also, when you're talking about a Unit Attachment, best thing to do is just call it a UA.
Just say Gun Mages + UA and everyone will know what you're talking about.
>You're better off looking for something that can hit decently hard, so as to make the best use of his feat
the Hammersmith Has quite a wallop...
My only reluctance is that I've already got 4 jacks in this list and I'm concerned about it becoming too much of a focus strain.
As far as jacks go, get a Stormclad. With the Stormguard, it gets a focus for free, which is nice.
Considering the Lancer: Does Siege have any spells he really wants Arced? Lancers are expensive, paying for that node, and if you don't have a major use for it, it's unlikely to be worth it.
I don't know if I'd say to immediately drop it(I assume you're working on BB, based on your stuff), but it's something to look at phasing out if that node isn't doing a lot of work for you.
Once again, I only play the faction across the table, so I can't claim to be an expert, but I will tell you that like 90% of your faction infantry is generally considered pretty bad. Long Gunners are bad, Trenchers are bad, most of the Storm Units aren't totally bad, but require work to do what they want, and the other stuff is all situational.
Since we're on the topic of Cygnar...
Taking Nemo1 battlegroup to an upcoming journeyman league and no idea how to expand after the first 2 weeks.
Once we start 15pts, I think I'll jump straight to
How's the generic journeyman warcaster compare to the named one? Anything I absolutely must have or must avoid in Cygnar? Can Nemo run 2 heavies on his own? I'd love to bring Dynamo or a Stormclad.
I cam into this game to make heavies and colossals punch each other. Outside of the journeyman league, is there anyone else in Cygnar I should be looking at for this?
Generic journeyman is better for a Defender. Arcane Shield can be slapped on whatever and he has exactly 2 Focus left over after upkeeping to feed the Heavy Barrel.
Jakes (The character Journeyman) is not bad but I feel like she is best served by a Charger.
I'm an Everblight newbie and I'm trying to build a list for my first game (not urgent, since it will be in more than a month).
I put togheter this thing, suggestions and criticism is very welcome.
35 pts; caster - Absylonia 2 (love her model and rules)
Also I have a stupid question: can I Teleport Absylonia after attacking? The rules seem to suggest so but I just want to be sure, since this possibility would be half the reason I'm bringing the Seraph (charge palatable infantry with Absylonia, kill, trigger Conferred Rage, pop back and slipstream further back seems temptingly sweet to me)
Another request: I'm desperately trying to figure out a nice painting scheme. I have some decent experience at painting having 'practiced' with Warhammer and Hell Dorado, so I'm not afraid of complex schemes. If you have any pictures of paint schemes for Legion you find interesting and you would like to share, I'd be really grateful. I was aiming to something similar to pic related for warbeasts' flesh and skin, but I'm not certain for the carapace/armor parts; I would love them to be darker but the only option that seems to work in my head is black, and I don't know how to make that interesting.
THanks in advance!
Personally, I'd trade out the Strider Rangers for 2 Deathstalkers then either a Harrier or another Shredder.
>can I Teleport Absylonia after attacking
Yes, and like you noted, it's amazing for conferred rage. Only stipulation with Teleport is that your activation ends as soon as you move from it
>love her model and rules
Good taste. Absylonia is probably my second favorite Legion 'lock. Vayle is my favorite cuz I'm a sucker for an ice queen character.
As for your suggestion, I'll consider it! Probably I'd go for another Shredder since I think they work particularly nicely with Absy's free charges, but I'd also like to keep one relatively safe for Tenacity (Absylonia, Angelius and Seraph all have enough DEF to make good use of it I think).
I like Vayl's model too, so she's on my to-buy list. Also she seems really interesting fluff-wise, for what little fluff I have read thus far.
DO YOU WANT TO BUILD A DRAGONSPAWN
COME ON LET'S GO AND SLAY
WE NEVER BITCH UP ANYMORE
COME OUT THE DOOR
-ARCHANGEL'S NOT THAT BAD!-
WE USED TO FIGHT A LOT
AND NOW WE DON'T
I WISH YOU COULD TELL ME WHY!
DO YOU WANNA BUILD A DRAGONSPAWN?
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE LIKE KALL-
[i]-Go away Saeryn!-[/i]
>I'd go for another Shredder since I think they work particularly nicely with Absy's free charges
Keep in mind a Harrier under eAbby's feat is a terrifying assassination vector since it's animus lets it auto-hit.
It's animus also lets Abby auto-hit something if you really need conferred rage to go off.
I don't think Murdoch is really necessary with Siege. He doesn't really care about in-faction and the stuff you want to charge with Nyss is usually not the stuff you want to shoot with Nyss.
This list could be nice and doesn't require too much new stuff:
Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane (*5pts)
* Ironclad (7pts)
* Squire (2pts)
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts)
* Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer (2pts)
* * Charger (4pts)
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (Cylena and 9 Grunts) (10pts)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4pts)
Journeyman Warcaster (3pts)
Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator (1pts)
Stormsmith Stormcaller (1pts)
Everything in that list is either stuff you already have or really good purchases for a new Cygnar player.
Stinger is the one with poison.
Harrier on feat turn is:
14" threat range on charge, POW 12, autohit, 1 more fury to buy another attack.
Also sprint if you're using it to deal with annoying supports or solos.
Siege likes warjacks with strong shooting.
The only strong shooting warjacks in Cygnar are Dynamo (who wants more focus that Siege wants to give to a single heavy), and the Stormwall.
Get the Stormwall.
Yes, i'm telling you to rush out and buy a Colossal. Yes, this is good advice for Cygnar, and you'll thank me for it later because you'll need to do it anyway.
Looks solid, give it a shot! It's kind of hard to go wrong with Sevvy lists, Eye tends to make things shine.
A few things to consider: Even with heirophant and wracks, 2 reckoners will demand more focus so you'll either fuel them or cast spells, but not both. Consider finding a way to squeeze Rhupert in to the list. Errants are your only unit so you may as well invest a little more support in them. You might also consider dropping one reckoner for a unit of Zealots+UA. It'll take some focus strain off, and under Eye you've got RAT 7 POW 15 bombs, which will dent most things (unless you roll like I do).
It doesn't invalidate them in every case, but in many. The Stormwall just does everything Cygnar wants from a Jack in one package. It shoots, it smashes, it's a great target for Arcane Shield.
Some casters, like Kraye, Sloan or Nemo1 and Nemo2 prefer other Jacks over a Colossal. Those castes are however not very popular outside of Stryker2 and Caine2.
The Stormwall is not the only good jack in Cygnar, but the one that is good with most Cygnar casters.
>The Stormwall is not the only good jack in Cygnar
It's very, very close. The only heavies worth a single fuck outside of some sort of caster-specific gimmick list are the Stormclad, Dynamo, and MAYBE Ol' Rowdy. All the others are either inferior versions of them, or invalidated by the Stormwall.
Also, it should be noted that Stormwall doesn't JUST punch better than it's points in heavies, AND shoot better than it's points in heavies, it also lays down the covering fire of a Cyclone and poops out stormpods (which aside from killing solos, blocking charges, and being a fucking free scoring model, also make Stormsmiths better).
The Centurion is also nice. It has the highest armor in the entire faction and that is a USP.
The Ironclad is good with Kraye.
The lights are also seriously underplayed. Maybe once the meta shifts away again from high-arm, I'll get the chance to bring more of them.
The Avenger with Stryker3 is the most retarded combo in the game.
>Not that much though. He can't put it on a horse.
That's true, but also not very relevant. His entire spell list just begs for a single hyper-efficient switch hitter, and the Stormwall gives him that.
It's a trap to go all in on the "WOW WARJACKS ON HORSES SO KEWL" meme with Kraye, the Stormwall is just so good that it beats out equivalent points in other jacks, even if those jacks are on horses.
>Considering the Lancer: Does Siege have any spells he really wants Arced?
not really, for me he's 6 points for a shield that fucks-up cortexes, and a big-ass spear...
Even I admit it's a bit underwhelming for me and once I've built-up my forces to the point where I can run normal-sized matches I'll probably replace it with a Minuteman.
>most of the Storm Units aren't totally bad, but require work to do what they want
I'm not totally sure of that, My stormguard have been pretty good to me.
Yeah, we indeed can. But I tried running them with Stryker1 and I just don't feel that RAT7 with Rangers was enough. I want to play them some more with pCaine, but that won't be this year probably.
Caine1 is the way to go
If rat7 doesn't work for you try to avoid shooting Def15+ models. Storm blades should be going after heavy targets with lower defense and higher armor and boxes
Yeah I got the chance to do that in one game. Got them nice and cozy on a hill and just had the gunners shoot away at heavies and troops alike. It's really great once you get it up and running.
Generally Storm blades are not going to be a stand around shoot unit. They're a melee unit that happens to have guns.
If you're playing them with Stryker throw arcane shield on them and go punch things. Take their UA and they can assault too
Agreed. I love the chibi-ified warlocks and beasts. Been really tempted to pick up some of the chibi PP pins as well. That chibi Maelok calls to me.
from what I'm reading, the stormguard may get you a bit more bang for your buck since, they have a few more free attacks (via electro-leap) but their ranked attacks mean they are not getting in the way of your ranged units, and their reach weapon means more stormguard can contribute to a CMA, and enemies have a harder time getting away.
Never take the UA for stormblades, it costs more than half the unit.
The reason you take stormblades in Cygnar is specifically for positive charge with Stryker wombo'd with Ragman and a stormclad. Without those synergies, they're just 12 15 victims walking at Spd5.
The stormblade's only redeeming feature is their hitting power with faction buffs, otherwise take the Hammerdwarves mercs.
I really hope that future errata fixes how thin the number of good Cygnar is. It seems that only actual Cygnar models in most Cygnar armies are the caster, the Squire, and the Stormwall, with the remaining points being character mercenary units.
That's essentially it. Gunmages are an absolutely amazing and flexible unit that's taken in every list, but aside from that Cygnar's troop options are either specialized to 1 or 2 casters, or outshadowed by Mercs especially with the Murdoch attachment.
>It seems that only actual Cygnar models in most Cygnar armies are the caster, the Squire, and the Stormwall
look that's because Cygnar is a combined Arms army, they take some getting used to, but while each individual unit seems rather meh, it's when you put them all together and they are each playing off the other's strengths that you get a whole army that's greater than the sum of it's parts.
That's very true. Gun mages + rangers are two units that should basically be in every list, but Rangers + Trencher Master Gunners open up a bunch of otherwise really unpalatable options.
Cygnar has access to the most and best mercenaries of any faction in the entire game though, so it only makes sense that they'd have to be balanced for that even if as a personal choice someone wants to be a faction purist.
Besides, as mentioned before, nearly every unit in cygnar does have a place with a very specific caster or strategy. Trenchers smokewall for Haley3, double Longgunner pCaine, or Stormblades with Stryker2.
Well, Murdoch exists, so it has a counterintuitive effect at best. Really the only buff that could be used as a type of "workaround" to this would be a non-upkeep faction only that's supposed to be on multiple units. Else, that one super-good upkeep will be on Nyss Hunters, Hammerdwarves, or Boomhowlers instead.
I never see Nemo on these sorts of recommended setups. Is he really that bad? I really like the old bastard.
more likely the problem was that he didn't fit well with their play style, there is nothing specifically wrong with him and if you can make him work for you, then all the power to ya.
The thing about pNemo is that he runs Warjacks, and screws warjacks. I think that he's an absolutely killer Protectorate drop because of this. Even if the choir has the chants to say "you can't use spells on my jacks", they're forced into a position where they must do this every turn or outright lose the game. This takes away a significant amount of their hitting power, against your list which is mostly armor.
I haven't played any Nemo3, and only a bit of eNemo before deciding that I liked pNemo better.
The biggest thing is that Nemo isn't Haley, and therefore it's difficult to find people who even experimented with him.
Is this a good list for 25 points, building off the Khador starter?
5 Man-o-War Demo Corps
3 Man-o-War Demo Corps
Eiryess (Either version, as they cost the same)
Well, I'm still trying to learn the game, and I sorta jumped in with him in mind. Just finished him up too. Love the model.
I think I've painted for just about every game under the sun, honestly. Have a metric ton of Cygnar here to work through, gonna tackle a stormclad next, since I figure I'm gonna want at least one.
Get the widowmakers and eiryss.
Man-o-wars consistently fall flat against anything of equal points value, and offer nothing to the gameplan that Sorscha wants to do. Other good alternatives are Rifle Corps, winter guard, and then anything with heavy guns.
Many mercs are spectacular with sorscha due to her ability to pop-n-drop assassinate with her feat. Croe's Cutthroats are normally overcosted, but when firing into a stationary target, poison guns are pretty good. Harlen Versh is another money printer with 4 purgation shots and being covered by Fog of War.
Nemo1 is just plain bad outside of battlebox games, he's too squishy and too specifically geared against warjacks.
Nemo2 is ok, he runs a jackswarm pretty well, though it's gimmicky.
Nemo3 can run a mean as fuck lightning-based gunline.
my FLGS is running this janky half baked map league. I swear the organizer is just making it up as he goes. Theres a table set up with villages, cities and a capital in the middle and eight players start with 3 warcasters leading banners across the map. Caster remains the same every week for the banner theyre assigned but you can change army composition week to week. You assault the towns and fight npc (run by organizer) militia (mercs or his convergence) at point costs associated at the town size. Villages are 15 point army without a caster. Capital was a 50 point convergence list. You can field one or all three of your lists if they all attack the same location.
So i start in the north with pThags, Kallus, and eVayl. I have kallus and thags assault the closest village together. Dude, it was just dirty. I had them each take max warspears with ua, one got ignite the other draconic blessing. Kal and thags buddy cop'd down hand in hand and the warspears had effective arm 20, def 14, pow 17 on prey targets and promptly slaughtered the pitiful steelhead defenders.
Having run these for GW games in the past, I understand why he would want to do it this way, and why he thought it might work.
Things will be okay until two players decide to fight over anything, and one of them leaves. These leagues tend to build up, then suddenly stop before anything interesting can happen.
Later I sent eVayl by her self with just 15 points to take a city (or at least do some recon). She gets to the battlefield and theres a convergence battle engine and a bunch of medium base infantry with that respawn engine following each them. Through very careful positioning i managed to kill them to the man and only lose a spell martyr and maximus.
Just this week I partnered with a fellow Legionnaire to defend a city against cryx. Teammate is bringing 25 point pThag, 15 Kallus, I'm bringing 25 eVayl and we defend against three 15 point lists lead by pDenny, pGaspy and eGoreshade. We started last sunday but had to call it because the store had to close. My teammate and I need to work on our synergy.
That is one mean warlock. Focus7, excellent spells.
+feralgeist for teh lulz
how do you even play against this list?
As cryx, I throw chaff in his face and then charge him after the feat turn with banes. It almost doesn't matter which caster is used, as long as they don't die. With pGaspy or Deneghra damage can even be done on the feat turn (but not a whole beast killed by math).
As Skorne, rasheth can similarly weather the feat very well between agonizers and his counterfeat sucking all of the punching power out of Doomy's army, and then he has more heavies in the list to do piece trades with.
For Menoth, uh...
Flamebringers crit grevous wounds? I dunno man, we're pretty screwed there.
Meh. MEH. The real Doomy3 terror is his Tier 3 list because gets a bonus to go first, a turn 1 armor boost, and a turn 1 speed boost. He loses steam FAST if he doesn't win the attrition game on his feat turn, and that list lets him get up the field fast and safe enough to set up for a turn 2 beatdown.
Outside of tier his beast brick is slow enough to get jammed out, and can be forced into a defensive feat on bottom of 1/top of 2 before he gets into scenario position by some armies which is super bad for him.
Aye, while the list is good and Dommy3 is great it has problems with some match-ups, like most Trollbloods lists. You need something anti-Cryx, as usual. pGrim is good for this.
I have a buddy who is trying to run cryx, but with mostly merc (pirate) units. He has a solid denny1 list, and just picked up a skarre2. He has every merc model he'll ever need but is looking into getting some more faction models. He has the battle box jacks and some pistol wraiths atm, what would you guys recommend him getting?
Well, if he likes pirates...
Blackbane's Ghost Raiders
Devil's Shadow Mutineers.
He could have a LOT of fun running Terminus, Revenant crew, and Press Gangers. SO much recursion, so much tough, so many pirates.
Throw some cannons in there too. I think between mercs and cryx you can get at least four cannons on the table, two of which ignore LOS.
Or he can just spam banez, whatever. I'd like a tough unit that comes back for scoring unless it's wiped, but if it ain't banez it ain't shit.
I'm wrong, spam banez. Cryx has three units.
I have some cryx in the building process atm, I am purposely going to run terminus pirates lists, either in tier or very close:
It's shit? But we all know the worst units in cryx are better than any other faction has, so even revenant crew will be sufficient.
List I've seen floating around on the Menoth forums:
Thyra, Sanctifier, Revenger, Avatar
full zealots, min choir, 2 daughters units, rhoven &co
covenant, Madelyn corbeau, saxon orrick
The Revenger is an arc node, so Thyra can get pursuit and stanglehold and silence of death.
Daughters are a pain in the butt.
zealots jam as always
Rhoven can remove animi cont effects or fury.
If it comes down to it, Thyra can get up to 15" threat with acrobatics and she can obviously upkeep grievous wounds on herself.
I can't tell you whether or not that is a good list, because I've never seen Thyra on the table. Doesn't she have a lot of bad matchups? Wouldn't it be better to go for a standard Feora2 list? Or even the dudespam harby?
Is there anyone here who makes their own boards and terrain? I want to make a city board using cobblestone, but I'm not sure the best way to do it. I was thinking about making it out of 3/4 or 1" thick insulation foam glued to plywood for structural strength. The issue is, once I create the different heights for the streets and slightly raised sidewalks, what do I make the cobblestone out of? I could carve it into the foam, downside being that it would take weeks carving each stone individually. I could try and find small stones in a craft store or something. Finally, I could get textured plasticard, but that would probably be kinda expensive to cover the board and would have seams. Also the textured plastics I have seen don't have a very deep texture so it might get filled in by the glue I plan on coating the board with for durability. Anyone have suggestions or ideas?
I was just using a generalised list.
I'm one of 2 dedicated cryx players in my meta. The other mains gore3 and uses blackbanes, soulhunters and bane calv to great effect. I myself occassionally use bloodgorgers with gaspy3
Pebbles come to mind but i dont think its the right answer. You could use a hot knife/whatever its called to create the shape of it into the foam, but then moving minis on it will ruin it over time.
You can try asking the terrain tutor on youtube.
P much yeah. Though calv, trolls and blackbanes are more corner cases.
Thats part of the problem, I think, when people call for bane nerfs because banes are great but they arent removing the legitimacy of other units. If anything mcthralls should get nerfed. They *might* be the best unit in the game.
It's the surgeon who's the real problem. McThralls you can just kill in droves and their point cost reflects that. It's the weird placement shennannigans the Surgeons get to do that turns them up to 11.
I've been using these guys lately and I have to say, they get an unnecessarily bad rep.
pow 12s can lay the hurt into a surprising range of targets, and an accurate pow 14-16 is solid chip damage and can often take important solos and troopers out.
And if you do run into <13 arm infantry, they can really slaughter them.
Only real complaint is that the full 10 man unit can eat alot of clock
I can't imagine there's much to critique (lolminions), but what do you all think of this? Do I switch out the Horror for a Spitter?
Blindwater Congregation (50 pts)
>Blind Walker (7 pts)
>Swamp Horror (8 pts)
>Bull Snapper (3 pts)
Sacral Vault (9 pts)
Gatorman Posse (9 pts)
Gatorman Posse (9 pts)
Croak Raiders (8 pts)
Farrow Bone Grinders (3 pts)
zealots do it from 5" away (11 threat).
zealots are better at jamming, but I think they do different things offensively
sure, but sometimes you don't have that extra point.
Also they have superior quantity, which has a quality all its own.
Finally, the rat 7-13 pow 16 is avails itself to fairly different targets than the rat 3-5 pow 14 (even if boostable).
It's decent for assassinating a warlock, but overall Thyra is a terrible assassin. Since her damage is pretty garbage she'll more than likely just deliver herself to the enemy caster naked. Besides the fact that if she's playing that far up she's incredibly likely to eat blast damage.
It is for the Doomy3 list above.
Which doesn't spam blasts.
Feora2 can't really do much about Doomy3 with Arm23 Mulg.
Dudespam harbinger, again, isn't going to stop Mulg from doing whatever he wants.
The point cost of thralls is ridiculous, but it's the typical cryx fapping.
They're 3/5, cheapest 10 dude unit in the game.
Because they're shit, amirite?
Well, they're def 12 arm12 which is average, not good, but not bad either. So they do die in droves.
They have low MAT ! But they have 2 attacks each, with combo strike. McThrall fists on the charge will make a dent in anything.
and they are undead
So really there is nothing about this unit that makes it worth 3/5, it should be 4/6 like the other basic units.
Then the slightest buff makes them good, even scything touch, or a target under crippling grasp.
and as mentionned, the necrosurgeon pops up to 3 per turn and places them within 3" and they can activate in the same turn.
Yep. Confirmed for bullshit tier.
>Feora2 can't really do much about Doomy3 with Arm23 Mulg
Send in the zaelots with Minifeat. If he feats, sit it out and lob aoes at the stone. If he doesn't feat, send in the heavies with ignite+battle and take out his heavies.
Yes, I make terrain boards for sale, but in frogland, so you're plausibly too far away.
_Not_ expanded polystyrene, that's the white stuff with the little balls that cling to everything. That is the devil, it is bad and you should throw it away now.
thin plywood will warp when you paint or glue it.
thick plywood will weigh a ton
Best way is to get some extruded polystyrene insulation boards.
It's usually yellow or pink or blue. It is dense enough to be sturdy, but light enough, and won't warp.
Take 3 sheets, they should be about 1250mm x 600mm x 200mm
chop 2 them down to 1220mm x 610mm.
Use the third one to make the table not-flat, the relief, the lay of the land.
If you want city scape, then get a sheet of depron, it comes in 6mm and 3mm thickness. It is actually just exdruded polystyrene again, but reslly thin.
Use the depron to make raised pavements. the parts of you table without depron will be the "road" part.
Extruded poly marks easily, so you can cut or draw cobblestones and shit.
pic is one i made earlier. just like in blue peter.
Yeah, wow. I'm sold on these guys !
Oh wait, no. They're shit. Not just bad, but actually shit.
As noted Zealots do it better. But why?
Because when a zealot throws a firebomb, it can't deviate very far, and the blast is POW 8, although an aiming Zealot with prayer of fervor gets up to RAT 8 which isn't shabby for unwashed pleb.
That's the difference. Zealots will hit things, and damage things, and very rarely will even set things on fire.
Deliverers are about 16" away, when they deviate the AoEs go all over. You might get lucky and clip a model with a POW6 blast. Usually things so far away have some sort of defence, they might be immune to blasts, might have anti shooting armor (like blur) OR, amazing as it may sound, they might be spread out.
So let's say you fired 10 rockets (implying 10 decent LoS) you're likely to directly hit 0 targets, and maybe clip 2 or 3. If you're lucky, you might kill 1 model.
The Covenant can give a unit cont fire on all attacks ! Amazing ! this is surely the work of menoth himself ! yeah, but it only works on direct hits, the thing that deliverers fail miserably at.
So not only do they eat the clock, but they are also stinky diaper tier.
>mfw finally reading the errata and all those sexy Trollbloods nerfs.
>mfw those EE changes
>mfw I have no face under the mask
I find that's the sweet spot though, karchev with four to five is more for fun. And the Rager and Mad dogs sorta helped on this front by giving us a couple of cheaper jacks with some minor but neat tricks.
>Play for glorious mother land against cryxian player.
>Anon, I don't get why you don't ever take Ranged Warjacks.
>Try to explain that Khador really has no good ranged beyond widowmakers and mortars and sure as hell has no strong ranged warjacks beyond the Behemoth.
>"but Anon how else will you fight against my Terminus Deathjack Revenant crew build?"
You might want to play a few more than a couple of games before you decide to change a couple of things.
Maybe about 50games, using the same parameters each time to thoroughly test each time.
WM/H may look like a clusterfuck of WUT, but the fact is that it works.
Hell I'd like to change a whole load of rules, but for one thing it'd be a lot of work because it's all intermingled, and secondly, outside of your house, there are no houserules. It's one of the strengths of warmachine.
I want to use pMorghoul at 50 points but honestly I just don't see a reason to use a warlock that can't do something for my whole army such as pMakeda popping Carnage every turn to give my entire army +2MAT. pMorghoul has nothing that compares to that, so should he just never be used in 50 point games? An extra 2 points for an Agonizer or Willbreaker just ain't worth it.
This is where two list comes into play.
A pMorgh beast brick list can be pretty great depending on what you want it to do.
With pMorgh it's about abuse and his feat, he makes our stuff faster and hit harder, which we already have, but can come into handy.
His feat is where it's really important as it can hurt hordes. Especially something like bradigus, it's stops the assassination turn, saving you some time if you use it right. It's the closest thing we have to a true control feat.
The only real issue is his 5 fury stat.
>The only real issue is his 5 fury stat.
This is why I think it's necessary to bring Tyrant Zaadesh along for the ride. Especially if you want a Brute since having it in Zaadesh's group means he gets 2 shield walls per turn.
I agree, it's actually the one place I take Zaadesh.
I've run list with Tiberion on pMorgh and a Brute on Zaadesh, safeguard on Morghoul plus all the shield guards was really nice, besides reducing the fury strain.
Yeah, the Brute for safeguard seems insane since Morghoul dies if he gets knocked down. Also gives you the option of throwing Morghoul into the action. But if you're doing this, how do you clear out enemy infantry? Just bring a bunch of Incendiarii? Use Handlers offensively? I mean, 0.5 points per model for something with reach and anatomical precision actually seems really good for killing infantry.
The Morghoul lists I run usually has a unit of croak Raiders with a task master since that's a self sufficient package or Nihilators to try and jam and clear as much as they can.
It's about target prioritization since the list is meant to deliver an abused, enraged war beast to close it out. Morghoul himself can actually clear infantry pretty well and sprint away if it's a final run.
Handlers offensively is a last ditch and not reliable.
Unfortunately yes. Some new models are more egregious than others, like this fucker who can't even fit within the lip of a 40mm base.
>MFW I just set them on fire and jam with Fire Eaters
Why are Zealots considered good again?
I don't. I just like painting and playing. The heft is better on smaller pieces, but with the large base guys (TERMINUS) he just becomes a proxy all game because i dont want him to fall over and break. DJ I feel would be in a similar position + endless butt charging
But... Why? Have Zealots actually done anything besides frustrate newbies?
No spray, no homo.
Big brush, cheap acrylics.
I buy tubs of cheapass textured outdoors paint, colour it with colours, thin it with water, or add more texture with gravel grit as needed.
I'm jumping into the conversation so maybe I missed something, but trying to jam D3 with Zealots is a bad idea when he has Fire Eaters. Which he should since they're amazing.
There must be a lot of newbies around then.
What I like about zealots is that people will go out of their way to deal with them, and when they do, they set themselves up to be countered, and when they don't they get zeloted.
Been looking at a pMorghoul list to pair with my eMakeda list. Maybe something like this?
Max Beast Handlers
Min Beast Handlers
Min Beast Handlers
Idea is for Morghoul to cover Skorne, Trolls, and some Legion and Circle matchups while eMakeda handles the rest.
Why has no one talked about mobius yet?
PP has finally put out a model that actually makes Bloats worth taking..
IMAGINE THAT .. A MODEL THAT MAKES MUCH MALIGNED AND UNWANTED FIGURES PLAYABLE!!!
Feels like your Morghoul list will have trouble dealing with infantry. Morghoul himself can get work done, but only if the infantry has been clumped up enough that he can overtake effectively.
well this is why:
1. Continous corrosion effect (much needed and borderline abusive with an aoe5 blast.
2. RAT5 BUT if they can see him +2 to rat (couple with a debuff like crippling grasp you're now RAT9 and haven't stood still (DID I MENTION POW 14 AOE 5 WITH CONTINOUS CORROSION?)
I think they will shine with pdenny where her feat will debuff everyone's armor/def by 2 and you can screw that up more with 2 more spells.
...DO YOU WANT TO BUILD A DRAGONSPAWN?
OR SPAM SOME LESSERS FROM THE POT?
I THINK SOME CATFIGHT IS OVERDUE
I'VE STARTED HISSING AT THE OTHER 'CASTERS TOO!
-FUCK OFF RYHAS!
...IT GETS A LITTLE LONELY
WITH YOUR EMPTY THRONE
JUST WATCHING THE LAST NYSS DIE...
It also can't make attacks or do anything but run.
And you lose it's activation the turn you take control of it, and can't be used to channel.
It also loses the advantage of any shields or bucklers, if it has them.
It also can't use any out of activation movement, or take any out of activation actions, such as free strikes.
Yes, I said insulation foam which is the extruded stuff. I don't touch the expanded stuff. I can get it in 4'x8' sheets in 3/4",1",1 1/2" and 2" thickness here. As for the plywood, will the thin stuff warp that much with just some wood glue? I was going to spread some thin wood glue and some countersunk nails to tack it to the foam, and at the same time glue some felt to the back of the ply. I may also glue and tack strips to the sides as well to box it in. I am trying to avoid most of the damage I see foam boards take, mostly deteriorating edges and bowing.
>Is it confirmed? I might just get the Mobius bit, which I assume to be metal, and attach it to a normal bloat.
or take a costume jewelry bit + a wfb skeleton some putty...
(starting work now on one)
/WMH/ - WarmaHordes General Anonymous 01/26/16(Tue)00:09:45 No.45024360▶
I feel blue edition
Warmachine/Hordes Books, No Quarter, & IKRPG
>textuploader <dot> com / 5f980
PP Youtube (gameplay tutorials, tournament coverage, and announcements)
List building at
The Giant List of Podcasts and Blogs
Table of contents for all NQ issues
Lexicanum Iron Kingdoms Lore wiki:
I've had thin plywood warp with watered down wood glue, and it was really annoying.
Foam shouldn't bow much, but yes, if you can put wooden edges around you table, and tack it to thin plywood, that's the best thing.
3/4" thickness foam will suffice, it doesn't have to be thick, especially if you are mounting it.
I have worked with extruded polystyrene too and it is great. It keeps well its own weight, it doesn't break by itself, it doesn't warp or bend, and it doesn't crumble either. It was godsent.
I used it for dungeon rooms, pic related, and I think I will use it for WMH scenery in the near future (as soon as I have time for it again)