OSR General

So, I could preview some stuff I'm working on currently for an expansion to Wolfpacks, if people are interested?

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>chromatic dragonS
>platinum dragonS

What did he mean by this?

>>44998884
Hobbits more lawful than dwarfs? Lol wut?

>>44999354
Lawful prone hobbits and neutral prone dwarfs would summarize their alignments from their narrative role in Middle Earth and their personality traits as well. Their role in Nordic myth is also very ambiguous (the Norse root of dark elves and dwarves are the same creature with a standoffish relation to the Aesir). So it fits.

I am drawn to the feel of OSR games, but do not like the d20 hit-or-miss AC mechanic that most are based on. What are some OSR systems that have very different combat mechanics but still have short, highly lethal fights?

>>44999889
You're being pretty vague, dude. Are you talking about alternate combat resolution mechanics like say Complete Warlock or Chainmail or more like an owod revised system whereby attacks, depending on degree of success, result in misses, grazing hits or great hits?

>>44999889
I've been thinking of a 1d8 (formerly 3d6) based system with loosely 'realistic' wounds but while in theory the specific injury can matter in practice it generally won't, so it progresses fairly quick.

>>44999889
I've been toying with getting rid of to-hit rolls entirely. Instead;
>Roll initiative
>Side that goes first rolls for damage
>Survivors on the other side roll for damage
Rather than improved to-hit rolls, fighters etc would get bonuses to initiative, and armour serves to block any damage under a certain amount (so all damage rolls that do four or less damage, say) rather than making it harder to hit.

People's thoughts?

>>45001314
Personally I like how you can very commonly go entire sessions without being hit in OSR, even on very hard adventures, and dislike how latter day D&D always seems to be about HP attirition. I would get rid of inits or damage rolls before I got rid of to hit rolls.

>>45001352
>>45001314
And to be more constructive rather than purely negative, I would say that you would want a VERY different HP scale.

>>44998796
Sure why not.

I want to repeat something I was thinking about last thread.

Many people have said that, in some of the oldest school DnD, magic users don't even necessarily recharge their spell slots every day. It's more like 'per adventure', you have to return to town and really prepare yourself.

I personally love the idea, but to better expand upon it and give magic that copies it, why not give magic users powers for spell slots?

Essentially, a level 1 Wizard doesn't necessarily get 1 first level spell for the adventure, but he can spend if on anything he likes. He could have an at - will power, or a minor magic item, or even a summoned minion. You still get your Magic spells, but they may come in the form of scrolls or standard energies. But yeah, the idea of letting Wizards change around their powers and stuff per adventure is really interesting and speaks to me.
Anyone else?

>>45002655
I was thinking something similar, honestly. The Occultist advanced class from d20M isn't terribly amazing, but they get scrolls instead of spell slots. Seems more substantial to me.

I wasn't sure how to come up with a reasonable limit from the narrative standpoint.

>>44998884
>evil high priests
Gets me every time.

>>45002655
So, a sort of loadout system? I actually like that idea a lot.

>>45003173
Easily my favorite OSR title.

>>45004485
I like that they felt the need to clarify that evil high priests occupy the evil portion of the alignment chart.

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>>45002186
this is all frantic WIP. In particular, I'm not very happy with how the Orphan works, and am fiddling with it. On the other hand, I'm pretty chuffed with how Morlocks turned out as a blatant remake of the elf.

>>44999354
In the LBBs Dwarves can be both Lawful and Neutral - Hobbits, however, can only be Lawful.
Elves are similarly Lawful/Neutral, while Men cover the entire Law/Neutral/Chaos spectrum. And Evil High Priests have a higher position within the ranks of Chaos than Balrogs, apparently.

>>44998884
That's a damn good question. A typo, I'd assume, that was made because everything else is pluralized and whoops he forgot that Tiamat and Bahamut are the only unique critters on the list.

>>45004634
If I remember the article correctly, it's less "Evil High Priests are Evil" (which wasn't a given, to be honest, since they were just Chaotic before and now they can be Lawful Evil?) and more "If your Patriarch/EHP goes beyond this line on the chart, they lose their powers until they go back into the zone".

Because EGG was suggesting that you'd chart the players on one of those charts depending on their actions, with them moving around even within the alignments. Evil High Priests aren't just Evil, they're Very Evil.

Yeah.

>>45003802

Yes! Very much like that, though it would require more time then I have right now to get into the nitty gritty of it to give a lot of examples, but one strong example I had in mind;
>Magic Discus
>1st Level
>Enchanted on any round and flat object. Usually a wooden shield, wheel, barrel lid, or a specially made metal disc for exactly this purpose.
>The disc can be fired to do minor damage to enemies (d4) as a ranged attack, and can also levitate around the caster to block attacks
>Blocking the caster gives him or her +2 AC, but doesn't require the use of any hands
>Each time the enemy attacks though the disc takes the enemy's weapon in damage; it can also be hit by fast enemies who attacks or try to parry it when it is fired at them
>The disc breaks upon taking 1d8+caster level in hit points

Something like this, for example. It's a kind of semi-permanent magical feature the Wizard has, at least for that adventure, and this replaces that first spells they got. Maybe higher level Wizards can have multiple discs, or maybe they can get a huge disc they can fly on, or just take along minions and magical lanterns and so on.

>>45004748
This is a great idea, and I think I'll pilfer it for my next campaign.

>>45004888

What the discus or the loadout thing?

I would like some advice or help making the loadout thing work, honestly. I'm not the most experienced DM, it's just a concept I've been stewing over for the last few days.

>>45004728
Normally, as I find the eternal conflict of Law vs Chaos to be more compelling than Good vs Evil (the document he's writing in describes good vs evil as a subjective conflict nesting within the heart of Law and Chaos, and he also says that the final battle of Law vs Chaos will have good and evil fighting on both sides) I'd strictly dislike the good vs evil stuff being added.

But in this case, the undead being stuffed into the Lawful Evil corner and the extra big bruiser freaky monsters in the Chaotic Evil corner, I can definitely see an Evil High Priest of Law using such creatures to either protect his vision of civilization or to cement his rule.

That being said, Lawful (and probably good) vs Chaotic (and not necessarily evil) still strikes me as better... I'm thinking I'm just going to have Law and Chaos be the only referenced alignment concepts in my campaign and never mention good vs evil to anyone.

>>45004651
Looks very interesting. I know my wife would love to play an orphan.

>>44998884
>Druids lean toward Evil

TIME TO SMITE

>>45005366
At the time they were a bit sacrifice happy.

Anyone here played both 1e and 2e Battlesystem? I'm definitely leaning towards 1e but I'm open to opinions or council.

For those interested, Godblood v13 Beta is out.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4qCWY8UnLrcMTRrWFpjaklkU0k

So a couple days ago I said that the only case where you'd be completely unable to hit someone in OD&D would be if you had shit dexterity and they had +3 armor.

I was wrong - there's no such thing as +3 armor, and a +3 shield only gives the extra protection one third of the time.

However, it's still possible to be unable to hit something if you're suck with one of those -2 swords. Not any monster, but a Fighting-man or Cleric with +2 armor means that you need a 21 to hit with your shitty cursed sword.
Hope you got some good extra abilities, I guess. Or not, since if it has primary/extraordinary abilities then it also has Ego and might make you unable to get a better weapon. Or force you to fight an opponent you are mathematically incapable of hitting.
Or it might force itself upon the Fighting-Man that you just lost to. Wouldn't that be a sight to see.
Hey, does anyone have any idea how long torches/lanterns are supposed to burn in OD&D? I can't seem to find it, although I guess I could just backport the one hour torches from later editions.

>>45007472
>However, it's still possible to be unable to hit something if you're suck with one of those -2 swords.
That's why they called cursed swords.

>>45004651
Couple of thoughts about the orphan: first, it makes sense that they can't attract a tribe, but maybe they could have a chance of attracting a pack of dogs and other feral children? Second, you may want to look at Miseries and Misfortunes, which also has an orphan class, but at a certain level they grow up and switch into a proper class. It's worth looking at anyway.

Otherwise, it's looking good. I especially like the morlock. Wendigo seems a bit powerful if it can regain spells by eating human flesh, although I guess that carries with it other social downsides.

>>45004651
Oh, also: could a magician use a morlock as a spell book? Could they record the spells they know on the morlock and treat him as a little mobile sanctum?

>>45005598
Solid GM chapter by Kevin Crawford as always. The advice will probably sound basic to experienced GMs, but as a newbie I appreciate the guidance. It's useful and adaptable to any highly player driven campaign.

Also, the complications tables own. Basically they show the long-term consequences of brute force solutions like the PCs mind controlling the king to give the PCs what they want. It creates so much adventure fodder. I like GM tools like this a lot.

What are some good sources for demons and devils for B/X?

>>45001314
I would make some heavy alterations to the HP system for that.
You could make half a character's HP something like stamina and the other half health. If a character survives a fight all their stamina regenerates immediately while lost health needs to be healed normally.
This way the party doesn't have to turn back to recover after one fight.

>>45009766
As much as I'd like to say BECMI, you really don't want to send those demons after a B/X party.

Maybe just pilfer them from OD&D or AD&D? The systems are similar enough that the conversion would be a no-brainer.

>>45008543
Orphans attracting dogs is a hell of a plan, I'd completely not thought of that.
A magician can totally use a morlock as a walking spellbook. They can't actually record more spells on the morlock themselves, though, and have to hope their scarred buddy is co-operating.

>>44998453
bump

>>45013915
Good thing Morlocks are easy to push around. Grabbing a few is a smart career goal for any self respecting magician.

Why is a turn 10 minutes?

I get that you're mapping and being careful, but it takes ten whole minutes to move just 120 feet? I can buy searching a 10' by 10' room if you're tapping (almost) every brick and floor tile or something, but just walking from room 1 to room 4 might take ten minutes? What if you've explored those rooms before?

>>45015322
I've been role-playing for literally decades and I've never paid the least bit of attention to timing rules like this. I just wing things according to what makes sense.

>>45015322
I just sorta abstract actions out to a "general exploration action" So going 120 feet and mapping is one action, 240 feet without mapping is another, disarming a trap is one.
I find it's easier to work with if you loosen up the time keeping a bit.

>>45014333
'you know what? It's far too risky to try to kill a cave bear so I can use it's bile in this potion. Bring me the least useful Morlock'.

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>>45015357
>>45015410

But what do you do when specific time matters? e.g. if a spell lasts X hours or a torch lasts 6 turns.

Do you just wing those too?

I found this time tracking sheet for Labyrinth Lord, I think TSR might have made one too? I don't understand why it's formatted the way it is. Unless you go vertically first on the Rounds (for easier conversion into minutes).

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>>45011990

>you really don't want to send those demons after a B/X party.

>Implying the typical B/X party won't find their way to a demon prince before anyone hits 3rd level

B/X players are psychotic

>>45015322

Its a gameplay mechanic.

(And you actually get two full moves per turn, so a thief all alone in leather would go 240')

>>45015675
I still use turns so if a torch lasts 6 turns, I keep it that way, it doesn't change much at the table.
Spells, I rarely have dungeon delves last long enough for 6 hours to matter. In those cases I just convert them into turns since a turn is supposed to be 10 minutes.

The only real difference is I just don't get so anal on if something takes 8 or if it takes 12 minutes.

I was pleased to find out Mike Mearls is an OSR fan and helped kickstart ACKS.

The combat system (esp. weapon vs armor) and the wizard/spell complexity system of Chainmail strikes me as potentially a good basis for an RPG.

Its also surprising how crazy high power wizards and heroes are in it in comparison to D&D.

>>45019203

A lot of osr games use chainmail combat systems.

Chainmail is one of the many combat resolution methods in OD&D.

Note that the D20 attack roll matrix we use today is called the "ALTERNATE combat system"

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>>45019532
is it exactly clear how Chainmail was supposed to be used with OD&D PCs and monsters?

How much damage should pistols/early firearms do? Flintlocks and stuff here obviously, not semi-automatics.

>>45020245
They strike me as meta-crossbows.

>>45020245
D6. Maybe pistols do d4.

>>45020245

1d6, just like every other weapon

>>45019662

The referee determines which resolution system will most easily and accurately model the combat.

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>>44999889
I don't know how short or lethal fights are in practice, but they could definitely get extremely hairy in this if you throw some of the nastier things (ghouls in this are insane) at a group.

>>45020245
If they aren't wearing Plate, 1d10

if they are, 1d6.

>>45015322

From Moldvay Basic:

>Time in D&D adventures is given in turns of ten minutes each. A turn is not a measure of real time, but is a measure of how much a character can do within a given amount of time. A character may explore and map an area equal to his or her movement rate in one turn. ...
[snip]
>A base movement rate of 120' in ten minutes may seem slow, but it assumes that the players are mapping carefully, searching, and trying to be quiet. It also takes into account the generally "dark and dingy" conditions of the dungeon in which the characters are adventuring.
>The DM may wish to allow characters to move faster when travelling through areas they are familiar with. ...

The ten minutes covers moving slowly, carefully, and quietly, inspecting things by moving the torch around to look at details, and it still gives you plenty of leeway as a DM to squeeze in stuff like the characters having a huddled discussion outside the door or what-have-you, without having to micromanage the time spent..

>>45020245
In LotFP, they're a d8. Their main advantage over a crossbow is that being shot with a gun forces a Morale check in most stuff.

>>45020245
If you're after official stats, check Spelljammer, Ravenloft, Red Steel/Savage Coast, and the core book for arquebuses.

>>45005395

What part of the battlesystem do you mean? The only real difference is 1e has THAC tables and 2e has THAC0 but since THAC0 is easily derived from THAC tables its essentially one in the same. Unless you mean that ungodly table in 1e that incorporates every weapon vs every AC; jesus what a clusterfuck.

>>45022307
I mean Battlesystem, the mass combat system. 1e is a bit chart heavy but high fidelity while 2e seems to be a mini-Warhammer game.

>jesus what a clusterfuck.

Its not remotely hard to use, certainly no worse than different levels/HD having different THAC0s.

>>45022473

wait until you have 6 players with different weapons fighting a group a enemies with different AC's. Difficult? No. Time consuming? Yes.

please correct me if Im wrong since im not too familiar with 2ed, but doesnt 1ed'd system for mass combat rely more on randomization (especially for ranged attacking) than 2ed? I feel like thatd be a better system since it would be hard to pinpoint specific troops to target in a roiling melee.

>>45022877
Unless the players spontaneously switched weapons without telling me just to spite me, I can't imagine it being time consuming. I'm a veteran of D&Ding for 19 years, stuff that trips me up are area effect spells that require separate attack rolls or saving throws per target each having different numbers, Exalted flurries in which each attack has a different base number of dice and number of stunt dice versus enemies whose DVs change with every attack, etc. There is generally not a high enough AC variance for there to be much in the way of mods, most enemies are pretty much AC 5-7. PCs and monsters alike just don't vary much in weaponry and armor.

It might be "mildly" time consuming but certainly not in the top 10-20 of things that happen in the course of a game session. I have pretty large fights with humanoids having the default equipment loadouts too (what's stipulated by the module or MM).

>but doesnt 1ed'd system for mass combat rely more on randomization (especially for ranged attacking) than 2ed?

2e's is hit or miss, enemy units are dead or not, and hits are scored or they're not scored and most types just take one hit. 1e has a huge range of possible results per attack roll and although attacks rarely completely miss, its still possible for them to do nothing due to the damage being too low.

>>45023403

>I'm a veteran of D&Ding for 19 years

nvm ill just stop, me and my group only started a few months ago after I found some AD&D books.

In fact, do you have any advice on how to streamline looking up THAC tables for each weapon? I guess after 10+ years youd simply memorize them, but its still a matter of passing the PHB around the table for us. My group usually relies on me as the DM to spoonfeed them (i dont even think anyone in the group can calculate their own THAC0) and short of forcing everyone to write down their THAC charts I cant think of a better way

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>>45023889
>do you have any advice on how to streamline looking up THAC tables for each weapon?
Use a sheet like this, which has a space to write down the to-hit mods for each weapon vs AC.

>>45024011

wow these great character sheets, thank you

>>45023889
Why not just do one of the following?
1. write down their THAC tables for each weapon
2. write down their THAC tables for ACs you expect to make an appearance -- ACs 0, 1, 2, 3, 9, and 10 are ultra rare, AC 8 only shows up for zombies.
3. simply print out a page (you can cut/paste the relevant weapons in or out, and possibly making multiples for different players if desired). You could tape them to some cards, or just hand them out as strips, or put them on their character sheets.

As the characters get +1 to hit THAC0, you can just quickly add a scratch every time.

some weapons barely have variant modifiers at all.

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I haven't seen this in the trove.
An awesome Swords and Wizardry resource.

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>>45024246
and this

>>45024202

I think #3 would be most viable, since Im trying to avoid having players make a matrix for each weapon they have, especially with >>45024011 charts.

My group is not OSR enthusiasts, it just so happens I only have books for AD&D 1ed, im trying to make it palpable for people used to glowing quest arrows directing them while still retaining the spirit of OSR. Maybe Im fighting a losing battle

>>45024202
Oh and thieves are probably usually going to be AC 8, and I'm sure there are dudes I'm forgetting. Those are all I can think of at the moment though.

>>45024294
Well, players like bonuses and using a broadsword or two handed sword will probably net them bonuses against most enemies, and all enemies, respectively. Just for example.

>>45016232
The reason i wouldn't sends them after players is that BECMI Demons are capital-I Immortal. They're really weak immortals, but probably still ageing enough to take on an entire party of level 14 characters and win handily.

I think. I'll go check and rrport back.

Anyone have a more abstract way of making light sources matter? I already track time and I want the tactical experience of light not reaching everywhere. However, I don't want to count squares on the dungeon map for light.

>>45024383
Just to nitpick needlessly, I'm pretty sure BECMI demons range the full gamut of power levels... unless you mean that having the Sphere of Entropy gives you the worst power costs on everything.

The "Lesser Fiends" in Wrath of the Immortal are probably ok for x chars (on the B/x spectrum) to face, they're not true Immortals, just Exalted.

I think one reason I dislike Wrath of the Immortals is that they just randomly made up a new tier between immortals and mortals that didn't need to exist before, just to cope with the new immunities to mortal shit immortals got.

>>45024430
someone in the party has to give up a hand slot, and it voids the demihumans' infravision. it also is an EAT AT JOES sign to monsters. They can use ranged weapons on you but not return the favor. Just arbitrarily decide whether a monster is within light radii.

>>45024449
I was more going for the Immortals set, really.

Where, on account of being immortal, they all take minimum damage from mortal attacks.

They're also fairly limited in what they can spend Power Points on, but even the weakest demon - the Whispering Demon(Charmer, Gray Deciever) a.k.a. the Succubus - has 15 hit dice and two 1d4+4+Energy Drain(with the drain being unnoticeable for a turn and healing the demon 1d10hp).
And it has 70% antimagic and can only be hit by +2 weapons.
And it can call on other demons.
And it can use Sleep, Charm Person, and Hold Person pretty much at-will.

Actually, thinking on it, maybe the Screaming Demon(Air Demon, Winged Fury) is weaker? It's hard to tell, really. It can't call balrogs, at least, which is a thing for Succubi since forever, but it also has 20 hit dice and five attacks and can swoop.
Then again, it also only has AC0 while the Whispering Demon has AC-6, so.


I think porting over the Eldritch Wizardry demons might work better?

>>45024202
I really don't see it adding enough to the game to be worth it.

>>45002688

Simple, if spells require a lot of time and magic to create then you can't really cast them in the middle of a dungeon. You need calligraphy and time and magical spirits to bind into the scrolls or whatever else; its not simple. It's a complicated, magical matter that requires the kind of ritual and planning that simply isn't possible while on the move.

Then of course the problem instead becomes how does this Occultist carry around all these scrolls? Or one fun idea I've always liked is having a spellbook but once a spell is cast the words on the book seem to like wipe themselves away, so you can reuse it to write down new spells.

Also, if you want to do something like this >>45004748, then you'll have a greater range of things the Occulstist can do. Not just spells, but minor magical items, pets, weapons or powers, etc.

>>45025355
It's the only thing that makes 2H swords worth it. You could simulate it by giving 2H swords, I don't know, +1 to hit, +2 vs. metal armour.

>>45025123
I just mentioned the fiends because they're a bit more beatable. Though they have All Spells Ever, which is a bit overpowered for an 8.5k xp creature.

The whispering demons are pretty cool in any case, I like seeing a take on the succubus that's a powerhouse. It amuses me that a fearsome lich that has ravaged the campaign setting for years may be reborn as a bat winged floozy, which I suppose would be happy times.

I'd generally bet the Whispering Demon is more powerful for the reasons you list. Double energy drain, unhittable AC and awesome antimagic, plus calling, is pretty sweet.

The Screaming Demon strikes me as better suited for what people expect of a boss monster. It can probably be hit, can be damaged by normal weapons, and it can haste itself and use the thingy that gives it +3 to damage per attack, making it a suitable ginsu beast.

>>45025355
Its worth it if you like 2HD swords and blunt weapons to be worth it, and the ubiquitous longbows and longswords to have suitable balancing factors. If you don't go crazy over the idea though don't use it.

>>45025361
the limit, I Mean, is why he doesn't spend 2X times to get 2X scrolls/whatever.

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>>45025445

The limit IS his spells slots. That's how many scrolls he can make and take with him on the mission. He doesn't have the supernatural pull to create more himself, or perhaps each scroll has a portion of his magical essence and is only released once cast, meaning he has a limit to how many he puts them in, or he is limited by the amount of secrets he is allowed to learn from his mage guild, or some other method that may fit your setting better.

It's a game abstraction, sorry to say. You'll have to come up with a justification.

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>>45025445

>The interim period between missions/quests IS the amount of shit he can get done. Lower level Magic Users are slower and more prone to distraction, hence less magic scrolls
>Magic ink is rationed by the kingdom/government to avoid abuse, more famous and well trusted mages are allowed it first and only small amounts to novice Wizards
>Every spell is a demon or spirit. The spell limit is the number the Magic User has under his sway to trap in scrolls
>Spell-scrolls are created from a complex mix of alchemy and magical essences. Magic Users must increase their understanding to get greater quality and quantity of these materials
>Each scrolls gives off magical radiation. The spell slots is the number the MU can safely contain
>Each spell-scroll is written on the endless paper pages of the Book of the World, a divine magical artifact belonging to the God of magic. Only high level MUs get more then a few scraps of paper at a time
>Calligraphy is the key to make the magic work, and it also destroys the hand with its intensity, magic users must condition themselves to make more at a time
>Each scroll is a single warrant or order in the divine bureaucracy, pilfered and used for the MU's purposes. Higher level MUs have more connections in the spirit world and can get more of these false documents sent their way by bribing the dragons in the corporate ladder of the world and such.

Here some examples, alternatively roll 1d8.

Personally #8 is my favorite, especially for Asian themed games.I like it so much I might just refluff my magic system to use it, in fact.

Since we finally have people knowledgeable in BECMI in the thread. Have you ever played at the Immortal level? Even as a playtest simulation thing? I'm curious about what it's like since it has a lot of fiddly rules.

>>45025656
I've mostly just read the rules, sorry. Haven't actually played a roleplaying game in years.

I also feel like you really need to go through the entire Quest for Immortality stuff for the Immortals rules to work - not for any story reasons or anything, but because you can probably expect people with level 30 PCs to know what different spells do so that they aren't completely overwhelmed when the Immortals rules give them access to every spell ever.

And, of course, if you don't have them go through those levels first then I can't imagine that the intrigue will have the same impact. Also, having other non-Immortal groups for them to infiltrate helps with giving the players some kind of quests and whatnot.


Although it's also worth noting that Mentzer didn't really make it for players - the Immortals set is secretly the BECMI conversion of Gods, Demigods & Heroes.

Something kind of interesting is how BECMI eventually included everything from the OD&D supplements except for Blackmoor's diseases, sages and hit locations, and Eldritch Wizardry's Psionics. And Greyhawk's Weapon vs. AC - I'd say varying damage vs. size, but that's kind of a part of Weapon Mastery in a way.
Then again, I guess the Immortal's set with its Power Points and Power Combat is pretty much a simplified version of OD&D's Psionics? It's just mostly limited to Immortals.
It's worth noting that OD&D's Titans had Psionics while BECMI's have Power Points.

>>45025656
I've not. Due to this threads, I've become more interested in BECMI and have been looking through the +mmortals books.

As I mentioned before, Wrath of the Immortals looks poorly thought out in a number of ways; the blanket immunities serve little purpose but reduce the numbers of threats that can be used on the PCs, and renders Constitution basically useless; Nightshades and Spirits honestly feel to me like they should still be major threats. Though I'm confused as to what pre-Wrath immortals do when hit with a poison effect exactly; I assume the DoT effect is what happens on a failed save, and then they can spend power to neutralize poison anytime before the effect is up.

Assuming they can still dual wield, it looks to me that engaging in dual punches are crazy powerful; they can probably haste themselves and get 4x attacks that deal 3d6 to 5d6 damage each, and cause knockouts per attack.

>>45025769
>>45025892
Yeah, going through the whole 36 levels does seem ridiculously unlikely. Immortals rules really is fun to read and brainstorm about though. I think I'll run a oneshot of it with Mythic one day just to try it out.

>you really need to go through the entire Quest for Immortality stuff

Quest For Immortality is the best rules bits of BECMI for me bar none. It's just so epic in scope, and the way it ties into Mystara's history is so wonderful.

Gaz2 Ylaurum in particular, really shows you the effects of having something like that in the setting. The local Prophet equivalent basically created a goddamn country and religion and manipulated it through the ages just to become Immortal. He even hardcoded a doctrinal divide on purpose hat switches regimes every now and then just to make the nation stronger and for him to succeed on his Quest.

It's ridiculously wide ranging, manipulative, and amoral. Exactly the sort of thing I want my players experiencing one day.

And that's not even getting into the other Immortal candidate down there who's about to rehsape the Ylaurum in 200 years: Barimoor. 36th level MagicUsers ain't nothing to fuck with.

>>45025649
Sounds way more flavorful than what I was thinking of was doing, just having it be what your magical research has turned up lately.

How easily can Immortals/WotI be used with AD&D?

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>>45026093
Yeah, you really want to plan in advance to have it be an immortals game, and probably want to set things up so that there'll be plenty of high level threats suitable for them.

For example, I was thinking that a setting like that in the Silmarillon (sp?) would be great for such, the way Melkor thoughtfully cordoned off a portion of the setting to be the perfect eviltopia with threats that would include, in D&D terms, foes for every level of play.

>>45026135
I've been thinking about it. AD&D, Dragon Kings aside (which is analogous to Immortals/WotI) normally doesn't have the late game elements that BECMI has. Though immortals are often powerful its unclear how they're supposed to interact with a number of C/M subsystems like weapon mastery, and so they may fit more comfortably with AD&D, not sure.

>>45026203
Are there rules for becoming Dragon Kings?

DMO: High-Level Campaigns ends in roughly the same place as M, with the only meaningful advancement being godhood.

>>45026246
>Are there rules for becoming Dragon Kings?

Yes.

There are rules for becoming defiler dragons (the eponymous Dragon Kings, though they don't receive templar of their own), avangions (protoss-angel-thingies), elemental clerics, druids with kickin casbahs (they can become the masters of their own domain sort of similar to Ravenloft domain lords, though they can leave), and fighters and gladiators can amass armies of subsidiary types, with potentially hundreds of name level troops. It also has a lot of interaction with Battlesystem, as the setting was originally conceived, iirc, as centering around Battlesystem.

If you run Dark Sun you will want to watch out for Kinetic Control or whatever its called, a very low level, inexpensive psi power that makes you Sebastian Shaw.

Hey osrg, I let a player play a half orc in OD&D as he had never played one in any RPG. The only real bonus they get is infravision and some social bonuses with the goblinoid races, namely not being auto attacked by hobgoblins when they are encountered. This seemed fair, then I let him pick it and play as a fighter as I couldn't come up with a fair balance for what he got. Half orcs don't get much, but they still get infravision which can be quite helpful.

I just laid out the downsides and the player balked somewhat. I said half orcs can only play as fighters, assassains, and berserkers, all only up to level 8. This high demi human level cap, along with unique class choices for a non human, seems fair but that's why I came here to ask you guys. Does this seem to be a fair trade off to play a half orc? Or does this seem too restrictive to be worthwhile?

>>45026325
>If you run Dark Sun you will want to watch out for Kinetic Control or whatever its called, a very low level, inexpensive psi power that makes you Sebastian Shaw.

I'm in a Dark Sun game that's going to be starting in a few weeks, and I'm playing a psionicist. Kinetic Control looks pretty ridiculous, but at an initial cost of 15 points and a maintenance cost of 7/round, I wouldn't exactly call it inexpensive.

Still... jumping into a fight from higher ground, activating that power and redirecting the fall damage could lead to some One Punch Man shenanigans.

>>45026461
>fighters, assassains, and berserkers
Is this AD&D or OD&D?

There is a slowed XP progression thing in the AD&D 2e DMG that functions as an optional replacement for level limits.

>>45026461
what are OD&D assassins and berserkers like?

And that seems fine. 1e half orcs are a very competitive race, they can be wicked effective fighter|assassins (unlimited advancement in the latter), get +1 str and +1 con with the negligible downside of limited charisma against people who aren't half orcs or orcs.

But anyway, if it bothers him, compare it to what halflings and derfs get in OD&D.

>>45026462
I used a Sebastian Shaw dragon king as the final boss of an AD&D campaign. If it wasn't for a lucky Ego Whip, it'd be an instant kill.

I personally would warn players the moment I declared the campaign that I am super iffy on Kinetic Control and the time travel one, but as for you, you may as well take it.

>>45026497
Incidentally, I cited 1e half orcs just for reference purposes, not because I'm equating 1e and OD&D. OD&D's a lot more stingy with demihumans in a lot of ways (level 4 elf fighting ability etc) so level 8 half orcs are not unreasonable.

Anyone know if those newer OCR'd AD&D 1E PDFs from dndclassics have been uploaded somewhere?

>>45026477
This is OD&D, using all of the supplements. I also am trying to use as many of the classes from the Strategic Review and early Dragon Magazine as well, hence the berserker being a class option. I will have to look up that slowed XP progression, as I think everyone has been scared away from the demihuman options because of the level limits.

>>45026497
OD&D assassins are pretty nice actually. Though they do have some stat minimums to play as one, once you get there they get thief skills at a lower level, except back stab. I think they also get to use shields if they want, as well as UNGODLY disguise abilities. The actual ability to assassinate is actually an off screen ability, or at least I think it is because the book doesn't seem to specify when you can do this, that is a percentile based off your HD vs. the target. Check out the Blackmoor supplement in the trove for OD&D to see them, its a pretty nice class overall.

The berserker is....interesting. It can be found in Dragon magazine #3, and its a fighter sub class that (obviously) gets to go berserk. Once you berserk, you get a +2 bonus in addition to strength for melee, which I took to mean bonus to damage and attack. Any intelligent opponents also have to test morale, and you become immune to that or any psionic attacks. You also berserk for a number of rounds equal to your con SCORE....which seems nice, but you also don't really get to retreat either. Also, berserking can happen in melee whether you want it to or not. At high enough levels, you also get to shapeshift into a lycanthropic form when berserking, and you get to pick that from 5 options as well.

All in all, both classes seem nice at level 8, I just want to make sure that this seems to be a good trade for that cap.

Trying to run a Lotfp campaign. Recommend me the best dungeon crawl book in the series.

>>45027656
>The actual ability to assassinate is actually an off screen ability, or at least I think it is because the book doesn't seem to specify when you can do this, that is a percentile based off your HD vs. the target.
Hint: check Underworld & Wilderness Adventures.
>Assassin: The role of this hireling is self-evident. The referee will decide what chance there is of his mission being accomplished by noting the precautions taken by the intended victim. Assassins are not plentiful, and some limit on the number employable during any game year must be enforced.
Basically, Gygax got it ass-backwards when he wrote it up for the DMG. Which makes sense, since it's probably Arnesson's rule (dem percentiles).
Note also how U&WA Assassins cost 2000gp/mission, and IIRC that's what sixth-level Blackmoor assassins cost as well.
This entire thing makes much more sense when you find out that Dave originally wanted the Sage to be a PC class.


Maybe you could point out to the player that it's not like humans advance much further anyway? The XP requirements for high levels are kind of bonkers. Apparently it's supposed to be so that from Lord to Lord, 10th Level is 240,000XP - and Wizard to Wizard, 12 Level is 300,000XP!
No wonder they usually retired their characters once they reached name level.

>>45025436
I'd rather just make all weapons the same. All one handed melee weapons and all ranged weapons do d6, all two handed melee weapons do 2d4. Problem solved.

>>45028559
Does +1,5 average damage really make up for losing the -1AC from a shield?

>>45028661
I think it's a reasonable trade. The damage with 2d4 is more consistent, and I don't use the rule that two handed weapons always go last. You could go with a d10 instead, I just kind of hate the d10.

>>45028883
Why not just give it a straight +2 damage or something rather than requiring funky dice?


IIRC ACKS did something like two-handed doing +1 damage, shields giving +1 AC, and two-weapon-fighting giving +1 to-hit - that's a nice way to do it, I suppose, although I'm not sure how balanced it is.

>>44999354
It's smoke weed every day, not smoke weed some days, when you feel like it. Shit's the law.

>>45005598
I'm getting worried as this gets closer to the kickstarter. I mean, all his previous ones have been fine... but they all began with the letter S.

Will Godbound break his streak?

Also, OD&D got rereleased on DTRPG/DnDClassics/RPGnow/wherever. If you bought it before, you can redownload it from the product page or your library.

>>45027835

A long term campaign where the players survive the dungeon crawl?

Skip Death Frost Doom then. I like it, but mostly everyone is going to die there. The God That Crawls is survivable, as is Scenic Dunsmouth. The Pale Lady is fun, but basically a suicide mission. I hear interesting things about Hammer of The Gods but haven't run it. Tower of The Star Gazer is actually probably your best bet, although Better Than Any Man sets up a campaign fairly well.

So, who has it already?

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/28306/ODD-Dungeons--Dragons-Original-Edition-0e?affiliate_id=10748

>>45026164
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8azW7IbtcxzalBIRUl0VW5zY1k/view

>>45030202
I bought it years ago. Then lost my downloaded copy and backups after they decided they didn't want to do PDFs and more.

I have a question. How do you roll a 1d24? I don't know if it's strictly OSR but I had a look at the DCC rpg and noticed the starting equipment table calls for a d24 roll. Also, is it some sort of injoke in the community or something?

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>>45032947
DCC has a whole lot of funky dice. Funkier than usual, that is.

The d30 is just the tip of the iceberg - ever seen a d7?

Some people like this more than others - personally I'm not really fond of it.

>>45032979
Is there some way of rolling 1d24 using extant funky dice without investing in more of the damned things?

>>45033057
Roll a d12 and flip a coin on whether or not to add +12 to it, perhaps?

>>45033146
Many thanks friend.

>>45026461
Level Limits in AD&D and OD&D are bullcrap and should be ignored(it works out a bit better in BX/BECMI/RC D&D though), Class Limits are a bit more understandable, but are still often too restrictive

>>45032947
>>45033057
the DCC rulebook actually lists how to roll regular dice to get a funky dice result, so just look there(I recommend getting funky dice anyways, as they are fun to mess with)