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Post-Apoc religion
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You are currently reading a thread in /tg/ - Traditional Games

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When it comes to post-apocalypse campaigns, how important do you find the issue of religion?

Recently within my group, one of the other players wanted to run a game to test out his game mastery skills. After three sessions, we as a group started discussing the pros and cons of his style, which led to us discovering he doesn't care for religion and prefers to avoid talking about it.
This came up because it was asked how he intended to develop a cult he mentioned once.

While I respect his decision to exclude religion from his games, the issue did make me wonder in general how people prefer to handle, or not handle, such a massive part of human nature.

So when you GM do you gloss over religion in your worlds or does it shape those worlds, or something in between?
>>
>>44985089
>When it comes to post-apocalypse campaigns, how important do you find the issue of religion?
Depends on the setting.
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>>44985089
>While I respect his decision to exclude religion from his games...

Lolwhat? Excluding religion from fiction, why? I get that it's not something that people might be super into but it's a pretty big theme to just throw out.
Also, post-apocalyptic settings are pretty perfect breeding grounds for strange cults and faiths. History teaches us what happens when everything gets wrecked and someone shows up and says he's pals with god.
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>>44985089
>So when you GM do you gloss over religion in your worlds or does it shape those worlds, or something in between?

It's part of world building so it shapes the world like:
>Elves are anathema for being demonic whores of seduction
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>>44985089
Very important. My most recent campaign involves the players rescuing breeders from a personality cult that's obsessed with cars and norse mythology. The breeders are the head honcho's own, because they're genetically perfect and he wants a perfect son, because everyone is horribly irradiated and has super cancer, killing them at around twenty without regular healthy blood transfusions.
Also, shiny and chrome.
>>
> RPG group playing engine hearts
> I'm DM
> PCs worship the cracked stretch of interstate they've been following

Also
> PCs are imprisoned by Hickbots at a biofuel corn farm
> are enslaved in moving corn
> are planning to escape
> intend on forming a corn-worshipping cult and overthrowing the Android Farmer in charge of the place through religious zealotry

I'm excited for this Friday
>>
I'm more interested in why your friend is so gun-shy about the topic. Seems a bit odd.
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>>44985918
>PCs worship the cracked stretch of interstate they've been following
Huh, that's an interesting concept. Elaborate?
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>>44986044
While I am also curious, he made it clear he didn't care to talk about it, so I'm not pushing the talk with him.
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>>44985911
Fucking underrated
>>
>>44986133
It's actually mediocre.
>>
>>44986336
It was pretty fun. But of course, 4chan being as hipster as it is...
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>>44985089
It could be that he just doesn't want to touch on it because he hasn't even thought up the details for it yet.

But I also agree with >>44985506

Specifically, I'd say that it depends on how many characters in the campaign are religious. If the only people your group is meeting are lone wanderers or other small groups, then it would make sense that they're more focused on survival than religion. Even if this is the case, there could still be people like Eli from the Book of Eli.

If society stayed more connected, with settlements popping up everywhere and trade caravans making sprawling trading routes, then I think it should at least have one somewhat common religion. Easiest route is just some pre-apocalypse religion that survived. Harder route is more in the vein of the weirder stuff that Fallout and Madmax has.
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>>44986082
Not that anon, but it makes sense: it is seeming infinite, contains wonders and terrors beyond anything they've ever encountered, provides a reason to exist (travel along it to the end, which could easily be understood as a kind of paradise concept). It's a good thought actually and I approve of these PCs and their cleverness.
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>>44986483
>woosh
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>>44985089
I should finish reading Canticle for Liebowitz. I read the first chapter when I was twelve and put it down. It's been 32 years since then.
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>>44986579
I dunno I'd expect that in a post apocalyptic setting you'd first have a mixture of people who have gone "this world is fucked" and either decided "therefore there is no god(s)/god is dead" or "I'm desperate to find some sort of greater meaning to help me through this shitty existence".
Among the meaning seekers I would expect to see a mixture of those who cling to old beliefs and those who search for/make up new explanations.

Huh setting idea: A religious war between a group Christian crusaders following the 'old ways' and some sort of new cult or visa versa.
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>>44985089
>>not worshipping Grob Gob Glob Grod in the year 30XX
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>>44989182
>Not worshiping science.
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>>44985089
Who is this well I guess semen demon does not really fit
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>>44990509
File name says the art name as well as the artist.

Learn how to read deviant art file names, makes searching a lot easier in many cases.
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>>44990645
Ah your right thanks anon

I think I will learn to read tgem
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>>44985089
>massive part of human nature.

*tips menorah*

Nothing in human culture is necessarily determined by nature. Religion is a product of history and economics.

You're also working with a highly Westernized, neurotypical, and normative conception of religion.
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>>44990789
Actually it kind of is, you look at any part of human history there's going to be some sort of religion going on and while yes it's probably going to be very different to current religions the fact remains humans are constantly deciding they need some sort of spirituality.
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>>44990908
See >>44990789
>You're also working with a highly Westernized, neurotypical, and normative conception of religion.
>>
>>44990789

> Nothing in human culture is necessarily determined by nature. Religion is a product of history and economics.
> You're also working with a highly Westernized, neurotypical, and normative conception of religion.

What the fuck is this post, it's like r/atheism and Tumblr had a hideously deformed baby together.
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>>44985911
Lel, I only came into this thread to say this is PA Religion done right.
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>>44988614
Not worth finishing. Sorry, man.
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>>44988896
I agree, but it also depends on how close to the apocalyptic event the people are, or how much of the old world is remembered. Give it two hundred years and the loss of the ability to read and you'd get all sorts of nearly prehistoric ideas popping up.
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>>44991081
I'd argue that Canticle is absolutely worth finishing. Go for it, Canticleanon.
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>>44985089

In my opinion it would probably entrench people into the extremes of either side of the proverbial religious fence.

Either they lose hope, becoming cynical and brooding nihilists and abandon their faith entirely, or they believe their deity spared them from the apocalypse and become devout beyond all measure and cling to their faith for dear life. Just my two cents.
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>>44990789
>Religion is a product of history and economics.

Modern organized religion, yes. Religion as a concept, no. Spirituality and reverence of deities existed way before homo sapiens even existed. It's human nature to place aspects of the unknown into the hands of a higher power.
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>>44991298
>>44985089

I recommend you guys read Just a Pilgrim, a comic by Garth Ennis that deals with these two extremes.
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>>44991026
There is nothing wrong with Reddit.
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>>44991298
How about
people
who were never religious
because
it just doesn't make
s e n s e ?
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>>44991558

Depending on the setting and the means by which the apocalypse happened I could see it going either way.

Maybe a nonreligious person witnesses some sort of otherworldly destruction and becomes convinced and/or horrified about the thought that there might be something out there. Or the apocalypse just confirms what they already believe; that humanity is alone. And maybe it pushes them even deeper, convincing them that if believing in a god was foolish before that it's even more foolish now.
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>>44991558
In an apocalypse I figure you'd see both those who lose and those who find faith. Major events in a persons life tend to do that.
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>>44991742
You'd probably see at least a few that started out not really caring about religion one way or another and still feel that way.
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>>44991796

Very true. Some people tend to just be neutral and only do what they need to survive. For them maybe religion is just a pointless idea to ponder since there are resources that need to be found.

Although, I'd kind of doubt the idea of someone who didn't have at least some sort of worldview adjustment after a global genocide, like >>44991763 said. I'm as neutral and agnostic as they come, but if half the world suddenly exploded and I had no way to find out how or why I'd start seriously questioning things.

But the OP question is kind of vague and highly dependent on the setting. Is the apocalypse natural, man-made, magical? What sort of religions or social beliefs existed before? What are societal structures like? What sort of physical forces are at play that hold the world and structure of the universe together? There are so many aspects that come into play to shape a character's worldview before the apocalypse even happens, so it's kind of hard to find a specific type of belief shift that would happen without knowing what those are first.
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>>44991763
I'm not talking about finding or losing. I'm talking about common sense.
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>>44992909
There's no common sense in an apocalypse.
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>>44992909
>I'm talking about common sense.
Here we go...The fedora crowd couldn't let people have there little thread of make believe and pretend, you had to bring personal beliefs into it.

I rather hope this is just an attempt at trolling, and that a /tg/ poster wouldn't be this euphoric.
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>>44988896
> 'the pope' builds a cathedral and calls it new rome
> sends scribes into the wastes to bring every text about christianity they can find
> one returns with a news article
>'claims of rampant pedophilia in catholic church'
> pope sends out scribes again, this time to find all children that he must spread his love (NOT in the magical realm way) upon, he translates pedophilia as literally LOVING children
> people of other tribes are pissef as fuck
> crusade begins
> pope brings all children to new rome and teaches them everything they need to know
> pope creates a new generation of educated adults
> pope dies in battle against 'pedociders'
> new generation of 'christans', who all have the name 'Christan' or 'Christine' expand new rome into thriving metropolis of the wastes
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>>44992981
Fuck off back to >>>/pol/ if you want your circlejerk.
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>>44986580
Neat. Could also be expanded to "all road are gods, but some are evil and lead you on the 'wrong path'."
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>>44993113
jesus fuck i can feel the fedora coming from this post

you make me ashamed to be an athiest now shoo.
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>>44991513
>>>/out/
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>>44991558
If atheism makes so much sense: explain the physical constants of the universe

If your world makes so much sense to you, fine. Believe what you don't want to believe. Just let the others do the opposite.
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>>44991026

No.. brother. That is called a jew. Hold to the traditions of the God-Emperor, Beloved by All and you shall be immune to their corruption and deceit.

>>44990789
>>44991513
These are jews.
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>>44993374
... Seriously?
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>>44993209
I didn't stutter. Fuck off back to >>>/pol/ , you Nazi shitposter.
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>>44994253
ok i was wrong not fedora just a troll

i have literally never been so sure somebody was just trolling in my life.
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>>44994444
checked
>>
>>44985918
>> are enslaved in moving corn

What? You mean the chains and shackles are made of corn, they're trapped in an evershifting corn maze, how are they 'enslaved IN moving corn'?
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>>44993087
I'd play it.

If my group could actually take the constant kid-fucking double-entendres without killing each other
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>>44985506

Nice job on a shitty noncommittal answer.
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>>44994444
People who disagree with your shitposts aren't trolls. Fuck off. >>>/pol/ .
>>
>>44990789
>>44990953
Nope, Religion is a fundamental part of human nature. Or I suppose it would be better to say 'A higher power' is fundamental to human nature, to fill in the blanks we havent gotten to figuring out yet.

Not just concepts like Gods but things like Fate and Luck. Its nothing uncultured or dumb, people just feel more comfortable with filling in the gaps of the unknown with SOMETHING even if they arent totally zealous about the idea
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>>44996822
Incorrect. See >>44990953
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>>44996844
Different anon here but >>44996822
is kind of correct. Humans are pretty driven to look for answers and make up stories while you don't always get an organized belief system out of this you still usually get some sort of religion/superstitions/spirituality.
Even atheists are usually still looking for some sort of meaning they just went for something like science instead of faith.
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>>44996844
There was an Oxford study that seemed to indicate religion is something humans are predisposed to.
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>>44997090
Makes sense; it's probably been part of our collective history since possibly heidelbergensis. Neanderthals and archaic H. Sapiens buried their dead and had cultural artifacts that could be taken as religious items. Hell, some of the earliest true settlements of H. Sapiens were apparently religious sites.
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>>44997039 See >>44990953
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>>44997387
Dude it doesn't matter how many times you repeat that it doesn't make any more sense. What point are you trying to make here?
>>
Since bad times strengthen faith and good times weaken it, post apocalyptic people would probably be super religious.

Loners etc. would die off FAST too, so the majority of survivors would be very social, plus very religious. Extrovertworld.
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>>44997494
The point is that popularity has nothing to do with human nature.
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>>44985089
>So when you GM do you gloss over religion in your worlds or does it shape those worlds
>or something in between?
Certainly not "in between". If it is present, it should inform the world and shape it just as much as anything else in the setting. Just shoving things into a setting just cause "i dink iz cūl xd" is why there are so many mediocre settings.

I really don't see any reason why you would exclude it, either. Maybe if the setting was supposed to be really alien I could see religious behavior just not being present at all, but in a normal setting it doesn't really make sense.

>inbr some people don't like religion
That's an irrational dislike, anyway. "Religion" is such a broad concept that even finding specific qualities about it to dislike would be a challenge, like saying "I don't like politics". You'd certainly never cut politics (in the more complete sense of the word, not just "the functioning of ruling powers") out of a setting, it would be nonsense.
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>>44998145
>popularity has nothing to do with human nature.
How is this relevant to people seeking meaning?
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>>44998145
When we say "religion", we're not talking about "a highly Westernized, neurotypical, and normative conception of religion", just religious behavior in general. I don't honestly see how you could argue that religious behavior is not something humans naturally tend towards. Even self-proclaimed atheists often engage in it (see Atheism+).

For full disclosure I am religious, but I'm not even making a statement on whether any one religious tradition is "true" or not. Religiousness is a trait humans across time have displayed, and it's a trait only humans have been seen to display (closest thing is certain animals mourning their dead, which isn't really religious. and that BS about neanderthals making shrines out of cave bear skulls is nonsense, though there is some evidence that they may have created ritualistic burials, but that's extremely difficult to prove).

>>44997793
>Since bad times strengthen faith and good times weaken it
Only if we're talking about literal religions. But shit like "this is my lucky pair of socks" is definitely religious behavior, and I don't know of any informations that suggest that sort of behavior declines with abundance. And if you factor in celebrity obsession and hyper-radical political ideologies, religious behavior doesn't even stumble.
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>>44998855
Nah, they're not comparable. Religion is not as ubiquitous as politics, and dislike of religion is not inherently irrational, though secularists may take it to irrational levels.

Religion is more comparable to love -- depending on your definition it exists all over the place but when people speak of it they usually mean something highly specific (romantic love or whatever).

>I really don't see any reason why you would exclude it, either

The genres that RPGs in general are built from, primarily S&S and sci fi, have the recurring motif of religion coming in two flavors:
1. Barely existent at all and existing just in the vaguest of implication, lacking in any warmth or succor, or both,
2. A force of supernatural horror, typically chaotic, discordant or otherworldly in nature.

Just off the top of my head, Howard, Moorcock, Tolkien, and HP Lovecraft pretty much all handle it in the same way (I'm willing to bet I may be mistaken on Howard). There's nothing wrong with it, and a lot of RPGs tend to return to that model anyway.
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>>44998145
I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here. Do you think that we're basing our reasoning on how popular and widespread religion is in western society? Because western society isn't the only place where religion is widespread, it shows up in almost every human culture that we have record of. It doesn't take the same form as the organized religion of the western world but it still appears, to the best of my knowledge there has never been an atheist culture. And if a concept is so popular that it shows up in every single society humans have ever formed than perhaps it does have something to do with human nature.
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>>44999431
>There's nothing wrong with it
I never said there was. But having a typical fantasy world and not mentioning religion at all makes no sense. The only thing I can think of that doesn't really have religious behavior at all is Tolkien's works, but that's only because the place the deities occupy is more akin to "magic" than religion. The Orc don't "worship" Sauron.
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>>44985089
Religion has always been and will always be important

If you want to include it in your games look up the history of religions and their development
Like the Golden Bough is a great summary if you're interested

Beyond that if it's based in irl earth then. There is no reason why current faiths would not endure
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>>44985642
Tbh some people (atheists) are really pissy

I had a game once were faith was a major focus and one guy made it his duty to take down the priesthood (which he did) and ultimately fuck up the entire game for everyone else just because it got his panties in a knot.
>>
>>44999473
>to the best of my knowledge there has never been an atheist culture.

Meh, unfalsifiable theory. It'd be more reasonable to say whether there've been societies that are more or less religious. It helps if you define your terms in general.

I mean, a solely cultural Christian and a guy who hears spirits 24/7 but isn't part of any organized religion could be both viewed as "religious" but there's something totally different going on in their heads.

Buddhism is probably the most relevant examples, though and exists in all manner of religious and nonreligious permutations.
>>
>>44999684
>But having a typical fantasy world and not mentioning religion at all makes no sense.

It makes plenty of sense and is the norm more often than not in the S&S genre, I'd not be remotely surprised if religion showing up in fantasy isn't primarily due to Gygax and whoever cooked up the cleric. Religion in RPG settings should be viewed as merely a matter of taste as far as worldbuilding is concerned, like whether gnomes are included.
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>>44999886
>Religion in RPG settings should be viewed as merely a matter of taste as far as worldbuilding is concerned, like whether gnomes are included
You wanna talk about non-comparables.
>>
>>44999950
Good point, gnomes show up a bit more often than religion as a positive, remotely fleshed out concept in pre-D&D fantasy... albeit mostly as earth elementals, not dwarf-elfs.
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>>44999259
>confusing socializing with religion
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>>44999792
>It'd be more reasonable to say whether there've been societies that are more or less religious
...which further reinforces the idea that the question isn't "do these people engage in religious behavior?" but "how intense is this people's religious behavior?"

>Buddhism is probably the most relevant examples, though and exists in all manner of religious and nonreligious permutations
To the best of my knowledge there exists no Buddhist tradition that is completely areligious.

>>45000062
Explain
>>
>>45000129
Socializing isn't religion.

See >>44990789
>>
>>45000129
>To the best of my knowledge there exists no Buddhist tradition that is completely areligious.

Like I mentioned earlier, religion is like love -- you can see it everywhere you look, depending on your definition, but normally we refer to a pretty specific idea.

Especially as refers to fantasy settings -- for purposes of this discussion, try to imagine an atheist D&D necromancer or good wizard or whatever. If you believe in metaphysics, ghosts, demons, magic, and so forth, you could be argued to be automatically religious RL, but the same character would result in people bitching about him being one of those evil atheists in a setting where atheism makes no sense.
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>>44985089
You have a retarded, shitty GM who can't keep his politics out of the table.
'I dislike religion and it won't exist in any of my games lol' is the equivalent of going ' I dislike ethnicity so it will not exist in any of my games lol'. It's fucking moronic.
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>>45000503
Or maybe, it's his game and he shouldn't be forced to deal with something he dislikes?

Religion isn't an inborn trait like sex, race, or orientation. It's a political affiliation with metaphysics attached.
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>>45001108
That's actually a good point -- and cults are legitimately a stressful topic to some people.
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>>44985089
Dude, you're in the "negotiation" phase of the game. Some people don't want to deal with the hassle of making up new religions, sometimes other players are uncomfortable dealing with it, sometimes he just can't play it well and knows it. It's cool, that's why you talk over what you're comfortable with at the beginning of the game.

>how do you handle it?
Depends on the age of the players and the kind of world we're in. When I'm running something that's >specifically< on Earth during religious wars and shit like that, then it is definitely a factor. In post-apocs, I like silly cults like Marcus the Gunbringer and The Safety Fist, but people are welcome to bring what they want.
If someone wants to play a cleric, I take them aside and ask them what they want to do with it/get out of it. If they want something original, I help them develop the cultus and play it by ear from there. If they want historical, we do research and talk it over with the other players. Frankly, if I have to choose between a good roleplayer and someone who's a hysterical dick about religion (super XXXtian, special snowflake my-religion-justifies-rape idiots, or anti-theist alike), I think you can guess who's not getting accommodated.

The short version is: I pretty much always have religions in my worlds. What form they take, and how much they influence gameplay vs. my private world-building and the maneuvering of NPCs, is entirely up to discussions with the players. We're fucking adults, we can talk about things.

I'm a hardcore Roman Catholic, btw. And when I'm running a game, it's not always my religion that's "correct"...
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>>45001108
Any DM worth their salt will have a rudimentary set of things related to religions, cultures, and other non-inborn traits. Worldbuilding nigga, you need to do it.

If the DM in the OP mentions a cult and then refuses to elaborate on anything about it, why have the cult in there in the first place?
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>>45001512
There are quite a few cults that have implications that normies would reasonably not wish to expand upon.
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>>45001564
Then why mention it in the first place?
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>>45001512
Not every world or setting needs religion. Please, acknowledge that your tastes are neither universal nor neutral.
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>>45001166
I actually know someone who's family escaped from a cult (of the type that was later forcibly disbanded due to the illegal fucked up shit they got up to). While they're still a bit uncomfortable with the topic they don't try to deny that such things exist and made no objection to them in rpgs.
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>>44985089
I only know one thing about post-apoc religion and that is that I'd worship dat ass in OP's pic.
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>>45001621
As an encounter or menace? There's a lot of things in campaigns that seriously don't need to be followed up on.
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>>44996425
What isent /pol/ to you anon you think both athism and religion are /pol/

You really should be quite honereded anon in the past I have always had a doubt as to if a person is shitposting or just retarded with you I have no doubt.

Worlds most obvious troll is obvious
>>
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>>44985089

>They say the roads can take you anywhere
>It's true, I've seen it myself
>When I was younger I walked them
>And I saw so much
>I've seen the temples of Vegas, the ships of Cisco, and the great foundries of The Troit
>And the roads lead to them all
>I cannot tell you how many times I was lost in the wild, only to find a road that led me back to where I wanted to go
>The times I've longed for a place to lie my head, and find a small road leading to a home
>*crackling sounds of fire, more wood is tossed on*
>They say there are roads that connect all of us, unseen by the eyes of man
>A connection between us that we can use if we only take that first step
>But my father's father spoke of another road. The Road. The one in our hearts that only we can take.
>Some men never walk this road, no matter how far they walk.
>*The speaker pauses and stares deeply into your eyes over the flickering fire*
>My child. I promise you if you are true to The Road inside you that it will lead you to happiness.
>Sometimes The Road is hard. Sometimes there is no shade, or the way is broken up and overgrown. Sometimes there is a fork and you will have to make a choice.
>But no matter what happens dont stop walking down The Road. Don't stop moving forward. For at the end of your journey is Home. Home for all of us.
>A place where no raiders attack
>A place where there are no radiation storms
>A place where we can rest, and we find
>*speaker winces in pain, blood staining his bandages*
>all our loved ones alive and well.
>*long pause*
>I love you Child. I'll .... see you....at Home.
>>
>>45001642
Show me any well-developed setting that doesn't dabble in some respect towards cultures and religious beliefs of its inhabitants.
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>>45002087
The S&S genre and almost totally ignores non malevolent religion. The closest Middle Earth has to priests are kings that rule by a sort of divine right and possibly the high elves whose eyes shone with the light of the Valar (but they weren't implied to worship them).

And this is pertaining to an author that was really REALLY religious.
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>>45002085
Where the fuck did this come from?
Is this pasta?
>>
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>>45002085
uh oh
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>>45002169
>The S&S genre and almost totally ignores non malevolent religion
...so you acknowledge that religion is an important thing in them. Okay. First one down.

>No priests in LotR
Yes, but there >are< gods. And angels - one of them is Gandalf. The religion of the elves is a driving force in their lives, and is partly shared by the Numenorians. Shit, Arwen literally calls on a river god in FotR and sweeps away the Ringwraiths through literal divine intervention.

Next?
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>>45002087
That isn't what I said. Read it again.
>>
>>45002734
>...so you acknowledge that religion is an important thing in them.

Yeah, overwhelmingly so for antagonists.

>Yes, but there >are< gods. And angels - one of them is Gandalf.

Well no, there are beings that the ignorant may mistake as gods. Angels aren't to be worshiped. Either way, it has zilcho bearing on religion, unless you consider supernatural creatures to be necessarily such.

>The religion of the elves is a driving force in their lives... Shit, Arwen literally calls on a river god in FotR and sweeps away the Ringwraiths through literal divine intervention.

Now you're just completely making shit up. "All magic period" is not religious in nature, nor are summonings or conversing with creatures. Religion may debatably be a force in the lives of the elves, but its certainly not a major one.

>literal divine intervention

Okay, I guess by this logic there cannot be non religious wizards.

I suppose Rydia was evidence of religious culture in FF4, since summoning critters is automatically religion. Give me a break.
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>>45002882
Read the fucking Silmarillion. It's the Elf bible, effectively, and goes into the religions of both the Elves and the Dwarves.
>>
I fucking LOVE post-apocalyptic religions, it's my thing honestly. I love the way that something mundane or even silly can become godlike and powerful when viewed through the eyes of an alien viewer who never knew that it was just some mascot or something.
In my game I'm running the main bad guys are a group of Raiders who live in a giant prewar sports stadium and worship the Great Eagle, since they found his sign on every wall of their home. They worship him as a vengeful God who wants them to go and raid loot and destroy for his sake. The King-like figure is also the high priest of the Great Eagle and is in charge of blood sacrifices to him. Another one is a group of survivors who emerged from an old record shop who worship the artists as gods who gave them their holy message. The priesthood are known as "patricians", men and women who have received the most messages from the gods. Another guy grew up reading fantasy books like LotR and Narnia and now believes it's his holy mission given by Eru Aslan to return the Ring to the Wardrobe
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>>45002085
Stealing this
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>>45002923
>Read the fucking Silmarillion.

I have, hence why I referenced it. There's only the very teeniest hint of religious elements for the Eru folk, mostly that... it exists and Melkor prohibited it.

>and goes into the religions of both the Elves and the Dwarves.

There is essentially nothing pertaining to the religion of the dwarves, and less than the terse words pertaining to the religion of pre-Sauron Numenor for elves.

Dabble is absolutely the correct word. You can read about as much into it as from the religions of law and chaos from Keep in the Borderlands, which is kind of entertaining.
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>>44985642
It's very difficult for the non-religious to relate to the idea of religion if they've never had any kind of first hand experience of it in there own lives. Therefore the easiest option is to just not deal with that by ignoring it.
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>>44990789
List a couple cultures that didn't have any religions then.
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>>44993142
>godly road leads you to the coast where there's more people and supplies because coats are the tits (look how many cities are located on the coast)

>satan road leads you inland to the horrible hot desert (ie hell) with kills you easily if you're not extremely well prepared
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>>44994444
Maybe he thinks you're this guy >>44993374? That nazi accusation just came out of nowhere.
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>>44998145
>popular
>every single human culture in the entire history of the world has had it
pick one
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>>44990789
M8 literally every human society is dominated by superstition and faith incuding our own

Civilization is a direct result of religion
This is extremely evident if you've ever bothered to investigate the history
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>>44999259
I'd say a good example of an atheist religion would be Marxism, it even has a prophet for fucks sake AND a paradise promised to it's believers if they're good. They've got it all!
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>>44985911
I WITNESSED what you did there!
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>>44999792
How is that theory unfalsifiable? Show us an example of an entirely atheistic culture, bam, theory falsified.
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>>44985089

I typically run Scifi, so religion continues to be some people's very good reason to murder each other.
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>>44985089
Well OP, I think THIS THREAD answered your question as to why you GM doesn't want to talk religion.
If you wish to remain friends with someone, NEVER discuss Religion or Politics. Words to live by.
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>>45002085
Would follow. It's like that small window where Proto-Christianity was simply called "The Way".

I love the idea that humans can latch on to simple promises and build worlds of hope out of them. I always imagine PA religions to focus on a burning, intense inner peace that contrasts with the hell on earth that people have to endure.
Pic semi-related. It hits the heaviest if the character still remembers the good old days.
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>>44993374
>>
>>45000157
No, explain what you thought was "socializing" that I said was religiousness.

>>45000445
>you can see it everywhere you look, depending on your definition, but normally we refer to a pretty specific idea
Doesn't that just mean that most people have a narrow definition of religion? I already know that that's true, given how people try to turn all polytheistic religions into an equivalent of the simplified version of Hellenic paganism they're aware of. God forbid you even try to explain the idea of syncretism. Basically, the general public barely even understands things that are definitely religions, you can't use what they would think of as religion as evidence when discussing whether a behavior is religious.

>>45003301
Definitely this. They understood that they couldn't eliminate religion entirely, so they tried to make people act religiously towards state symbols. This just further reinforces the idea that celebrity functions on religious tendencies.

Many permutations of Buddhism are arguably atheistic, in the literal sense of "without god".
>>
I really don't understand why people are so against religion even being part of the world building of a game. It doesn't even need to be a positive depiction, it can just be "these guys are a bunch of savages that believe voices in their heads that tell them to sacrifice people to the greater good".

And as far as we know humans have always been superstitious. Look at all the idols and nature worshiping our ancestors did and look at all the religious people still around the world. As far as I know there's never been any society that never had any religious superstition or spiritualism. Feel free to prove me wrong but even antitheistic societies like the PRC, North Korea and USSR and irreligious societies like South Korea and Japan still has religious bodies in them.
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>>45003301
Teleology isn't religion.
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>>45003512
>Doesn't that just mean that most people have a narrow definition of religion?

No? Devaluing a word to encompass all possible societies doesn't help any discussion at all. If I believe there's an elemental plane of fire and that doing the right ritual can summon a fire beast to destroy my enemies, I'm sure you'd consider that a religion, but if that turns out true, I'm still an atheist... I assume.

>you can't use what they would think of as religion as evidence when discussing whether a behavior is religious.

I didn't, so...

If you want to widen religion's definition to absurdity like you're doing, at least show a small amount of self awareness and come up with how someone could *not* be religious, and make sure you include how, say, a wizard could qualify.
>>
>>45003591

>And as far as we know humans have always been superstitious.

A far more reasonable explanation. After all, we know that you can be a wizard who battles ghosts and demons and still be an atheist; people throw temper tantrums every time the topic comes up that someone is metagaming due to playing a PC who doesn't believe in the gods.
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>>44985089
>Post Apocalypse Religion
>>
>>45003934
And to be honest when magic is a naturally occurring part of the world. You can't blame a mage who has no divine relationship or divine revelation with a god to not see magic as another element of the world to be scientifically experimented on and analyzed.

Please note, I'm not saying atheism in fantasy universes is dumb or not but that you can understand why some may be around.
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>>44985089
>excluding a large and historically relevant piece of human society from a genre about the destruction and rebuilding of human society

That's about as close as someone can come to being objectively wrong.
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>>45002994
Agreed. Read Mortal Engines for more of that stuff. Mascots mistaken for deities, etc.
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I personally love making fantasy religions.
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>>44985506

The setting is after the apocalypse you nimrod: the OP just explained it.
>>
How about this?

http://metrovideogame.wikia.com/wiki/Savage_Cannibals_of_the_Great_Worm_Cult

>people trapped in abandoned metro tunnel
>start worshiping the great worm that made tunnels
>kidnap kids to brainwash them, eat outsiders
>in book Artyom catches a glimpse of some huge object speeding through tunnel
>probably just a tunnel bore they mistook for a god
>maybe
>
>>
>>44985911

The dubs speak truth!
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>>45006815
also in metro 2033 the nuclear war destroyed heaven and hell, forcing those who die in the metro to re-live their last moments forever
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>>45006812
Ah yes, all the apocalypses and all the post-apoc settings are the same! How could I ever forget?
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>>44985089
Even if the concept of religion is forgotten somehow, you still have people creating structures of ideas. And from that there would be ideologies, and of them some would be extreme and cult like. Not that implausible.
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>>45003877

Different anon, but agnostics (as well as the irreligious) aren't religious. An agnostic won't defend the existence of God, but neither will he defend non-existence of God. Agnostics won't use religion as an excuse to perform a certain action the way that Atheists used it as an excuse to declare war on the "unenlightened" Muslims and capture Albania or the Christians used it as an excuse to declare war on the "heretical" Muslims and capture Jerusalem.
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>>45006852

Exactly. Just like how just saying "40k" gives us enough information to be able to tell whether the OP Is talking about 30K, Rogue Trader, or Dark Heresy.
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>>44992909
>end of civilization
>common sense
???
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>>45002085
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>>45002085
Capped
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>>45006938
Actually the heretical muslims declared war on us, took the best half of what were Christian lands, and went on trying to murder us for the successive 1400 years, only being slowed down and forced to give land back in a few, important occasions (the reconquista, the crusades for a while, Lepanto and the battle of Vienna, the balkan uprisings of late 19th century etc). Up untill late 17th century people were afraid they would rape and destroy everything up to France and Germany eventually.
Maybe you're just ignorant.
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>>45009408
Wow, that makes me feel good. Glad people seemed to like it.
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Various forms of neo-christianity, for example:
>the apocalypse happened and we're the chosen ones to find the promised land;
>the apocalypse happened and we're in hell;
>the apocalypse is the next coming of God and we have to follow the radioactive wind to find the Savior;
>the apocalypse is the final test of faith;
>the apocalypse ended everything that connected humans with God and we have to fight our way back into His grace and/or learn to live in a godless world.

These are the most popular variations I use.
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>>45009889
>the apocalypse is the final test of faith
This is actually something I haven't tried before. And I can see a couple of ways that this could go, too, one way being the peaceful path:
>"The Lord brought this upon us because we were a violent, hedonistic age that went against his favor, and he put a stop to it. We, his children, must take this as a sign to help others wherever they may be, to guide them onto the heavenly path, as the Holy Spirit did, oh so long ago. To heal the sick and the wounded as His Son did, oh so long ago. And to bring the Righteous Word to the masses, to promote friendship, trust and community among each other, as the holy Prophets did, oh so long ago!"

I like this one. I'mma use it. Thanks Anon for the idea!
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>>45009408
I now want to play a PA paladin maintaining my strip of the road on Route 66
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>>45010164
You're welcome. Have an art of a priest ridden with internal conflict.
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>>45010380
>Have an art of a priest ridden with internal conflict.

no thanks, i'm sick of cliches
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>>45010403
that_was_the_joke.bat
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>>45010403
>>45010431
...also, pugilist priest.
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How does this sound for a PA campaign?
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