What if Sanguinius had been made Warmaster, /tg/? How would the other Primarchs have responded to this choice? Would he have been a competent leader? Would Chaos have managed to corrupt him like they did Horus? If so, how successful would a Sanguinian Heresy have been compared to the Horus Heresy?
He would have become the living avatar of Khorne Made Flesh and had at least some limited ability to see the future.
He was also MAX CHARISMA. He could have taken at least as many, if not more, of the primarchs with him.
The Emperor would have been a fine paste on the floor of the Imperial Palace.
Galaxy is on fire.
What's left of humanity is thrall to mad gods.
Alternatively, Chaos would never have gotten a foothold in the Warmaster because his daddy issues weren't as severe as Horus' and he'd have dealt with them in a more constructive manner. In turn Horus would respect him too much to turn traitor in the first place.
>dealt with his daddy issues in a more constructive manner
>lied to the emperor about the red thirst all the time because he was afraid of his legion being destroyed
no of course that couldn't backfire or be used against him
My guess is a far bigger chunk of the Primarchs would have joined him, because he's an ace diplomancer.
At the same time, he could have just talked Magnus into joining him instead of tricking him.
The question is why wasn't Corax made warmaster.
Being a diplomat and being able to keep an empire rather than just take one was more of a long term threat to Big-E than he thought an upstart warlord would be.
Same could be said for Guilliman and to an extent Fulgrim and Pre-Heresy Dorn.
2nd-to-last found (possibly after II and XI had been dealt with, even), didn't get on with many of the primarchs (especially Horus), sent significant portions of his legion away for reminding him of the oppression in his childhood, preferred to work by stealth...
There's loads of reasons
If anything it should be even easier than Horus.
>Sanguinius, you must save your sons from the Emperor! He will surely wipe you out once he learns of your gifts, as he hates all he cannot control.
There wouldn't be any heresy the Imperium would be united under one vision that vision of course being of the emperor humanity would have access to the webway, and mankind would be happy ever after the end!
No the emperor would be fine because as you say old Sangunius would go full Knorne instead of all vanilla chaos like Horus. Which knowing Chaos would cause infighting probably ending in each god empowering their 'own' Primarch.
No, Heresy, the Imperium triumphs, gg xenos and chaos scum.
If he went rogue though, it would have been the end for humanity.
With Logar acting as the undivided negotiator so that they all work together. At least for a while.
Fedora Lord of Terra now has to deal with multiple avatar-primarchs rather than one trying to hog all the chaos juice all coming to beat his shiny golden ass.
Question is why wasn't BASED LIONEL not made warmastah.
>Loyal as fuck
>beated the wolf
>beated the nighthunter
>first and best legion behind him
>sexy blonde long silky hair
>not bald as fuck / full of stupid cables running into his skull.
>MAX SWORD SKILLZ
>Sex wings on helmets and bathrobes on armor.
What was Emp thinking again?
>How would the other Primarchs have responded to this choice?
As much as they bitchfight among each other, pretty much none of them have a bad word to say about Sanguinius that I can recall offhand, at least from what I've read.
Even Horus admits that Sanguinius would be a better choice than him, precisely because none of the other Primarchs would complain (and Guilliman, the Lion and so on were definitely not happy that Horus got the job).
All I know is Russ was the major fuckup of the heresy.
If your brother tells you that your dad wanted you to kill your other brother, you fucking question it.
Emps wanted to have Magnus stand trial, but as soon as Horus gave the kill order, Russ just went full chimp and started jerking off to the idea of murdering faggots that read books.
If he had just said "Hey dad, why do you want me to commit Fratricide?" then the Emperor would have known something fishy is up with Horus, Magnus and the thousand Sons would still be loyal, and two whole chapters of badasses would be able to turn the tide at Terra and the Emperor wouldn't need to be a skeleton on a golden toilet.
>Emperor ruining everything
Honestly, it's not really his fault. It is, but he fucked up in how he perceived the human viewpoint, and frankly living for forty thousand years or so meant he simply couldn't relate to humanity any more.
Better question would be why he didn't listen to Malcador enough, or perhaps let the guy take point on more shit. He seemed to have a much more human appreciation of the situation.
That's like saying if the Emperor hadn't gone Full Fedora and have sat down and talked with Logar for a while he would still have the Word Bearers.
Or if he had beamed up the rebels, or beamed down the War Hounds he would still have the World Eaters and Angron who would joyfully die for him in gratitude.
Or if he had waited 20 or 30 years for the Thunder Warriors to shuffle off the mortal coil naturally one of the anxieties the Legionaries were feeling would have been removed. Might have had more objectors in the Traitor Legions then.
Or if the Emperor had sent Curze to psychiatric specialist rather than handing him a legion he might still have the Night Lords.
Or if the Emperor had employed Perty as architect and designs dude rather than Garrison and Siege Bitch he might still have the Iron Warriors.
>It should be called Erebus, Kor Phaeron, and
The EmperorRuin Everything.
What makes you you think Russ didn't try to get a hold of Emps?
The Emperor had been shut in his palace working on his secret project and not taking any calls for I don't know how long. This was compounded by the fact that he was damn busy trying to keep a warp rift closed. He's not gonna take a call to explain himself to his drunk son.
Russ was prolly just glad to hear from pops for the first time since he promoted his asshole brother to warmaster. Putting a kill order on his brother was nothing special or new to Russ, considering that he had already wiped out 2 legions.
Nope. The Raven Guard, before Corax took control of the Legion, were Night Lords: Light Edition.
Corax then recreated the Legion by sending parts of it to outer space (Carcharodons) or other places around the Imperium while reinforcing the Legion with recruits from his homeworld.
Because he is defending you from warp demons. And because he loves you.
Also, read >>44984947 and the image he posted
>What if Sanguinius had been made Warmaster, /tg/? How would the other Primarchs have responded to this choice?
They would probably have asked, why?
Sangunius and his Legion weren't top tier military thinkers like Horus or Guilliman.
>anyone doubting Sanguinus, best of men
Clearly, but it does not say "Ollanius Pius, best of men" on the tin, it says "Sanguinus, best of men"
Nah, he was just some shmuck that took a bullet.
Sanguinus knew he went to his death before ever agreeing to take the fight to Horus, but he did it anyway, because that was his duty.
Feels good to have sold my soul to Tzeench without even knowing it.
Oh wait shit.
>And then there was that shitty day when I accidently stood to close to the Emperors teleporter beam was transported to the warmaster's flagship with him. Damn, that sucked balls.
Pius is just propaganda made up by the Imperium at a later stage to offer Guardsmen an inspiring example of heroism and sacrifice which was recognized by the God-Emperor himself.
>During an assault on the Imperial Palace
>Takes an attack meant for the Emperor during the fighting
>During assault on the Vengeful Spirit
>Interrupts a triumphant Horus standing over the Emperor
>Takes an attack meant for the Terminator
>Emperor proceeds to nuke Horus.
Learn the difference, m8s.
Nah, they used normal humans for half the DNA, so they have all the awesomeness of a primarch in a normal sized package. Unless of course you're into giantesses. I won't fuck with your head canon
>Reasonable Marines and the Angry Marines
Come now, the guy is even called "Pious." It has got to be Ecclesiarchy propaganda. And they did a good job, it's an inspiring tale of a normal man doing what is right in the face of seemingly invincible evil.
Now get back to dying in the trenches.
Reasonable Marines are a textbook example of missing the point by a fucking hemisphere. Marines are the Emperor's shock-troops, they don't non-lethally take down enemies of the Imperium, and then lovingly rehabilitate them.
Angry Marines are just a pathetic attempt at being funny.
Heretical Love is bad, but not that bad.
Jog my mind about those blokes?
It's true, /tg/ is veritable cornucopia of shit!
Just look at this!
You make Jon Snow look knowledgeable.
You might have a point, if this wasn't a setting where the developers decided "Angron" was a totally legit name for a primarch destined to become a Khornate daemon prince. You can chalk that up to GW being bad at naming things rather than proof of Ollanius being propaganda.
Still not as bad as Iron Hand, the Primarch of the Iron Hands who had iron hands. Did you know his Iron Hands decided to get themselves iron hands to mimic Iron Hand's iron hands?
Really? Do you really think my post was so embarrassing? There was a point it was time to stop shitting up the thread and we've clearly passed it. But let's keep going and see what happens. I'm drunk enough that it might be entertaining
I can't help but agree. The premise actually had some potential, but instead of going though with it all we got was endless waifucrap. And while I actually like the idea of the Primarch's daughters, if they were incorporated as part of the overall setting instead of segregated from it it would have all come off as much more well rounded and interesting.
They had a series where a few of the daughters visited their respective primarch's home worlds. I didn't get the whole way through it, but what I read was interesting. I think it was called Road Trip. I could hunt up a link if you're interested
The Sanguinian Schism is a thing- check the group on facebook. I personally think its heretical to think my primarch would ever be corrupted. If Horus couldn't do it, then nobody would.
Fools... We all know, how the Heresy really ended ...
If anything Horus himself said that Sanguinius was the Primarch that was most like the Emperor. Horus actually said that Sanguinius had everyone of the qualities that the Emperor had while the other Primarchs only had one of the Emperor's qualities.
>Horus was the closest to emps
>Russ couldn't get hold of emps
>Emps just says "go get magnus, hes a dick"
>Horus finds you and says "he wants him dead for his betrayl, hes actually a massive traitor"
>Horus is basically your boss and the closest contact the emperor
Im sure russ had his suspicions but ...
It's like Star Trek.
So much potential.
There are good parts but there are bad parts. But mostly it's just wasted potential.
>Lists reasons why the Lion should have been warmaster
>"Horus was just better"
You couldn't even get one?
I guess Horus really didn't have much going for him.
>Or if he had beamed up the rebels, or beamed down the War Hounds he would still have the World Eaters and Angron who would joyfully die for him in gratitude.
Do you think the Emperor didn't know about the bond of brotherhood of the gladiators? Do you think he was blind?
All the Primarchs were challenged to some degree by the Emperor in order to gauge their true worth.
The Emperor wanted to see if loyalty to his father and the Great Crusade would outweigh his loyalty to his closest brother, in case he was ever put to the test to choose between the ideal of humanity and his sons.
And what did Angron do? He failed.
The only wrong thing the Emperor did in that case was not throwing Angron out the airlock like the degenerate guttertrash he was
Which is exactly why the Empra is dumb. Either help Angron and try to gain his loyalty that way or leave him to die because he's too deranged and damaged to be useful. Don't give him a reason to hate you and then set him loose with an army of super soldiers.
the editor of the HH series released it some time ago
You're just making assumptions.
Or Gav Thorpe is retarded, whichever you prefer
>"Seventeen of them. You are the Primarchs, my finest creations."
>"Seventeen?" Corvus asked, confused. "I remember that I was number nineteen. How can that be so?"
>The Emperor's expression grew bleak, filled with deep sorrow. He looked away as he replied.
>"The other two," he said. "That is a conversation for another day."
Can be read as the two not having been found
Weren't the gladiators all corrupted though and just about to start worshipping Khorne? Wasn't that why he left them to die? I seem to remember reading something like that.
he did talk with Lorgar
he told he to cut out that BS
Lorgar refused and got bitchslapped
How fucking old is Lorgar by that time?
you still expect your old man to hold your hands and give you talks like a fucking child when you are that at age?!
they are supposed to be ADULT generals of an army.
the emperor simply expects them to act like goddamn adults and not need constant coddling
Angron was given a choice, the Emperor/imperium or his shitty band and there is also the high chance that his buddies are all khornates, why the hell would the emperor go save khornates?
if perturabo was upset about doing his job so well then he should have said something shouldn't he?
he just moaned and bitched in private while the Emperor and the rest see him as liking that job given how well he does it
Well, he lacks daddy issues. Horus's pride may still cause him to rebel, but if the E is smart, he keeps Horus close to him and showered in praise, so Horus stays loyal by knowing that he's Dad's favorite.
The rule of the setting is that things always get worse so... the Red Thirst manifests itself in Sanguinius perpetually looking for more and more opportunities for violence. As the Crusade slows down, Sanguinius starts looking for excuses to deploy his increasingly bloodthirsty troops. He uses the Night Lord's viciousness as a Causus Belli to declare them rebels, and launches a campaign against them. When the Emperor learns of this, he dispatches other Legions to stop Sanguinius's madness. Sanguinius convinces some of the legions to join him, because he's so pretty, and we have a pretty similar scenario to the Horus Heresy, except perhaps the Chaos Gods only come to influence Sanguinius a little later, and the Night Lords ironically remain loyal.
Sanguinius is also a much better and less nasty people-manager than the Emps and Horus were, so the Iron Warriors actually stay *loyal* to the Emperor because they weren't treated like shit, too. The World Eaters still side with the BA, because they've always been bros in this setting, and Magnus still probably fucks up and winds up on the rebel side too.
I think Sanguinius could sway the Space Wolves, due to their sense of personal honor and respect for a great warrior with awesome hair, and the Alpha Legion due to their eagerness to test themselves against other legions. The Iron Hands stay loyal, not being swayed by Sanguinius's good looks, and the Emperor's Children, always mildly bothered by the fact that Fulgrim wasn't chosen as Warmaster, stick with the Emps in the hopes of a promotion. The rest I give a more-or-less 50/50 toss up, depending on how well Sanguinius can sweet talk them and whether or not they resent the Emperor for one reason or another.
Why have Sanguinius be the Warmaster when the best Primarch could be Warmaster?
Actually Horus secretly hated him because sang had such style he made his wins and charisma seem natural whereas Horus felt he had to work for his wins
This is shown in fear to tread which has a post ullanor meeting where they talk about Horus becoming warmaster
Horus ends up secretly pissed off at sang because he feels like sang turned the title down due to his wings and being airy fairy - makes Horus feel like he got sloppy senconds
So I see Horus falling and leading a smaller rebellion of all the bitter cunts who wouldn't have been able to stand sang - morty as librarians wouldn't have been banned, bitter pert, Lorgar naturally behind it all, curze after getting bitch slapped for being a cunt.
Meanwhile Magnus might well have been reigned in, fulgrim has his dick sword taken away so doesn't fall, and Cabal can talk to sang so alpha doesn't fall
Some of this shit is due to the way Merrett changed the lore for the ccg
The main GW who were doing the index astartes at the time were building a better story - so at Nikea sorcery is the issue and emperor makes GOAT decision to allow pure psyker due to smurf librarian, which is why most chapters have libby in blue
Yeah, I do.
Before it became a "meme" that the DA's loyalty was questionable at best.
>but DAfags will scream retcon and smugly post screencaps of newer editions proving the DA's constant loyalty
>while at the same time bitching about how newer editions are fucking up the lore for Deathwing and Ravenwing
> There was one story
> Literally one
> Written over 12 years ago
> In that story, the sole person claiming disloyalty hated the Dark Angels
> And was a known traitor
> And the story was written by Gav "Lion punches heads off major Dark Angel heroes" Thorpe
And that story give some credence to suspicions of DAngle disloyalty, which had been around for some time. \
Jesus dude, they kill anybody who's seen Cypher, and Inquisitors who investigate them go missing. They keep on insisting they're the most loyal ever, but they're really not, even if they're not closet traitors.
M8, your talking about a game that was firmly tongue in cheek, in the 80's, made by dudes who read way too much Heavy Metal magazine, with art that rarely went above the level of "Here' s this thing I drew in my notebook in 3rd period".
There was no plan to have some grand, super serious story.