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Horus Heresy 30k General /hhg/
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> HHG FAQ - http://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8

> Official HH 7th Edition Errata (Updated January 2016): http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_7th_Edition.pdf
> Other official downloads: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads#horusheresy

>HH Rules:
> Crusade Army List: http://www.mediafire.com/download/1lprm5vd99yafa3/
> Isstvan Campaign Legions: http://www.mediafire.com/download/deadtdf0y47k59k/
> Mechanicum Taghmata Army List: https://mega.nz/#!LFwTjQ7B!mF0eVOY8P1MPT0a-QSXypXo_ZfskhYynD41PrkaTbD8
> 30k/40k Rules: https://mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ!EVh0GZZS
> 30k/40k Rules and more (torrents): https://kat.cr/usearch/%22Forge%20World%22%20heresy%20user:epistolary/
> 30k Black Library: https://mega.nz/#F!0RlxDZQC!qAu9BaubWa3KeihJRmOcsg
> 30k Xenos Homebrew - https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Xenos_in_30k
>>
>>44978086
Expectations for what we'll see in two weeks?

>Book Six Retribution obviously
>Mastodon
>Solar Auxilia Medicae?
>Contemptor-Cortus Dreadnoughts?
>Mechanicum Arlatax Class Battle-Automata?
>"Army List" reprint?
>"Legion List" reprint?
>moar Brass Etch
>moar Transfers
>>
>>44978193
>>Mechanicum Arlatax Class Battle-Automata?
I kinda hope they make models for the ones they already made rules for first. Even if the Domitar isn't particularly good it would be nice to see what they look like; the Thanatar-Cynis is actually very good and deserves its own model as the armament is very different than the other two variants that have models.

As for anything else I'm curious to see what the event-exclusive stuff is going to be. Characters? New types of Centurions again? A Knight-Errant (unlikely, but you never know)? Maybe a named Blackshield (wait, that doesn't work)?
>>
>>44979783
New Centurions would be cool, but what is left?
Centurions who open unittypes (bikes) would clash with rites, granting abilities to attached units (skilled rider, fleet) would make the traits of certain legion seem non-unique.
An idea is a centurion who must start attached to a non-legion specific unit but he and his unit has the legion trait of a battlebrother legion. (Might end up useless)
While I do liked the characters, as I can't appear this year I just hope it'll won't be IH, WS or blackshield.
>>
>>44980675
>as I can't appear this year
There's always tons of them on ebay. I think you can still get the Praevian model. They're not even that expensive.
>>
>>44978193
New rites of war
>>
So, I have a purely theoretical question (for fluff, not in-game) about how the chain of Command would work. For my RG army, I'm wondering what that would look like. I have the following models, and for fluff/narrative events, i'm trying to figure out who would take command over whom.

Below is my guess for order, would anyone be able to correct me?

Corax
Praetor (chapter master)
Chaplain
Praevian
Kades Nex
Chooser of the Slain(Dark Fury Sargent)
Mor Deythan Shade
Terminator Sargent
Seeker Sargent
Tactical Sargent
Contemptor
Apothecary
Navigator
(Rank and file of the Sergeants above, in the same order)

Is this accurate?
>>
>>44981125
Already confirmed for being in Book 6
>>
>>44981249
Apothecary would be higher, no? Also, Praevian and Contemptor would exist outside the chain of command to a certain extent, or at least wouldn't be issuing orders. Either way this should be spelled out in the Legion Organization section for RG in HH3 (which I admittedly have not read yet).
>>
>>44981256
Oh, you mean modelling wise. Then i think you have mentioned it all.
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>>44981560
That's why the Contemptor is so low, He is only above apothecaries, rank-and-file dudes, and someone that isn't in the RG at all.

And wouldn't the Praevian still be above Sergeants, as he is an officer?
>>
>>44981733
>>44981249
I would go so far to say that Chaplain, Praevin, Contemptor, Apothecary and the Navigator are all outside the Chain of Command.
>>
>>44980953
Compared to usual GW clam packs, I'm inclined to agree.
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>>44978193
>Contemptor-Cortus Dreadnought

The what now?
>>
>>44982510
Piloted mechs, basically centurions.
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>>44982518
please no.
>>
>>44982510
I assume that should say "Contemptor-Mortis" rather than anything else.
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>>44982534
They can make better proxy like castellan after all.
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>>44982518
Why are they contemptors? Shouldn't contemptor-something-something be a contemptor variant, not a whole new thing?

>army will never get unification patter dreadnoughts
>everyday I'm suffering the alien, the mutant, the heretic.
>>
>>44982510

Stripped down close-combat focused Contemptors mass-produced for Ullanor. They expected it to be a long and brutally fought campaign, so made thousands of this type of dread to go toe-to-toe with the super-Nobs they were expecting to face en-masse.
>>
Is anyone else getting annoyed with how much of an idiot they are portraying Russ to be? I mean, I appreciate that they need to get the Space Wolves numbers down, due to them needing to lose 9/10ths of their Legion, when they only had the 1 successor chapter and they never really took part in any of the big massacres, like Istvaan or Terra.

But, is making him the Zapp Brannigan of 30k REALLY the answer? I mean, asses handed to them by the Night Lords, Alpha Legions and now having lost most of the legion on Prospero (Pretty much confirming that Russ managed to fuck up a battle where he had superior numbers and the element of surprise on his side.) It really pains me to see a character that should have been one of 30k's biggest badasses turned into a jobber.

Surely there was a better way?
>>
>>44983332
The alpha legion stuff was post prospero
Read wolf King they lost a lot of ships at alaxxes as well as Gunnar their first capt
I think the idea is each loyalist has some chaos temptation - sang seems to becoming arrogant, Girlyman imperium 2.0 lion vacillating Vulkan rage
For Russ it's depression
>>
>>44983361
What I meant was that, as far as i'm aware, Oldhammer fluff stated that the Burning of Prospero was a massacre of the Thousand Sons. When I said "Now having lost most of the legion on Prospero" I was referring to the retconning of that.
>>
>>44983361
>each loyalist has some chaos temtation
That's called being human.

>>44983332
The Space Wolves' losses on Prospero speaks more for the Thousand Sons than against the Space Wolves imo. Sure they had Sisters of silence and Custodians with them but I doubt anyone save the emperor had any idea what a Daemon aided psyker could really do. And it would be very unlike Big E to give anyone a heads up....
>>
>>44983361
>let's make all the traitor primarchs good boys
>and all the loyalist primarchs retards
>>
>>44979783
THeres a rumor going around the web that the event model will be a new consul, a color officer for the legions.
>>
>>44983434
Traitor primarchs din do nuffin! They good boys!
>>
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>>44983480
I fucking hate it. They were previously all very human, if mythical characters.

I liked chaos a lot because of it. Now I don't.
>>
"Combi-weapon" does not include combi-bolter, right? Like if a unit or model can take a "combi-weapon for Xpts." it can't take a combi-bolter, only any of the bolters with a special weapon attached to it, right?
>>
>>44983581
I don't see why not...
>>
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Posting my Space Wolves Contemptor Dreadnought that comes without pelts and beards.
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>>44983618
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>>44983624
Not sure how the chapter symbol turned out, but I can't be bothered putting too much effort into it.
>>
>>44983618
>>44983624
>>44983632
Very clean looking. Only thing I can ask is why there isnt any edge highlights. I do like the dull grey and general worn look to it though.
>>
>>44983653
They are highlighted, I just don't do super bright highlights because I think it looks cartoony.
>>
>>44978193
>Dorn, who's going to be screaming like a retard, i know it.
>Siege tyrants
>More upgrade kits
>Some robots an' shit
>Preview of someone who isnt Alpharius
>Im thinking Naedes Rex for the raven guard.
>Thunderbird
>>
>>44983672
Yeah, spotted them after posting. Very subtle. While I myself would go with maybe a shade or two lighter for the highlights to make things pop out more, I know what you mean by wanting to keep it gritty. You hit it with a spray matte varnish yet? That should help reduce some of the shine where the ink washes pooled, like in the recesses on the legs and whatnot. That and maybe lightly dry brush the original metallic bronze you used before ink washing it. Digging the base too by the way. If you wanna add snow effects to future ones to go with your Space Wolves, check out Secret Weapon Miniature's crushed glass and liquid effects. Have to be careful when working with crushed glass, wearing gloves and eye protection, but it results in great snow effects. Here's an image I pulled off Google as an example, I think it'd look really good on the base as a tundra theme.
>>
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So i'm planning to transition from 40k to 30k after having looked up how 30k works and having gained a unhealthy love for EC.

What units from a typical 40k space marine army would be the easiest to transport over to 30k, and what units are must haves for a interresting EC army ?
>>
>>44983618
>>44983624
>>44983632
Very nice. Just remember, Space Wolves Contemptors are all insane. There is a prophecy on Fenris "All those interned in a Contemptor are driven mad by it's might." This is a self fulfilling prophecy, as, in order to counter this, they only intern the most insane of their fallen into them.

If you want to play it fluffy, have the fucker act like it's a melee unit. I, personally, equipped mine with a Dreadknight sword and the Frost Shield and run it as an Axe+Shield Ven Dread.
>>
>>44983434
Well yes because edge lords will buy limited editions about their husbandos who also hate their dads - adb is he master of this
Pretty much every traitor is I hate you dad you don't understand me or a euphemism for coming out as gay (fulgrim) and a certain set of chaos players cosplay 24/7 as their legion
>>
>>44983510
It's called growing up anon
>>
>>44983721
I don't spray varnish and I don't mind the shiny bits of the wash too much. It gives it more texture.

I also don't think I will put snow on the base. I rather have them be more generic than bringing Fenris with me everywhere I go, but hey, thanks for the tip and the critique. I probably will put a matt coat in some of the crevaces where the wash created a shine.
>>
>>44983742
I'm not too deep into the fluff, but I am avare of this. I do have a second one that is gonna be melee that will get a slightly more feral look. I'm gonna use the wolf skull head from the SW Dreadnought kit to give him a more sinister look.

Since Space Wolves are executioners in 30k I imagine the other one to be ripping off heads based on this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfsMMVgIToA

I guess the shooty one requested to test fate or something.
>>
>>44983764
No problem. I keep telling myself one of these days I'm going to get a contemptor for my Dark Angels. Curious though, what paints did you use for the gun metal on the assault cannons? Looks too flat and clean to just be leadbelcher and ink washes. Wouldn't mind using that color on my stuff in the future.
>>
>>44983819
Oh, that's just Citadel the Fang with two washes of Army Painter Dark Tone. The metal colours are just Ironbreaker and Runefang Steel also washed with Army Painter Dark Tone.
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>>44983581
Correct. The errata should contain a list of what weapons attachments you can pick from when it says 'combi-weapon'
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>>44983917
Ok. Just felt weird that some units can have combi-weapons but not combi-bolters.
>>
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>>44983581

A combi-bolter is rather obviously a 'combi' weapon but was overlooked in the 'secondary' section in the v7 RB. According to the Chaos Marines dex [p65] they're statted as twin-linked:

R24 S4 AP5 RF/ T-L

HTH
>>
>>44983361
>sang seems to becoming arrogant
I thought he was plagued with indecision (most notably as G-man's "Emperor", and with his legion's secret) and all too willing to sacrifice himself - a noble act, to be sure, but it would have been the doom of the legion/galaxy had the apothecary not taken his place, given that he, a normal marine, was still transformed into a powerful daemon prince
>>
>>44978086
Could anyone help me with finding a certain piece of fluff?

It has the Solar Auxilia arriving on a planet in where a being appears out of a portal and spreads a disease that kills most of the Imperial forces.

The Emperor then sets up a quarantine zone and prohibits any Imperial Force from entering this part of space.

It's in one of the Horus Heresy books but I can't think which one it is.
>>
>>44984461
Page 22 of HH5.
It's titled "The Horrors of the prohibited zone."
>>
>>44984187
The end of Pharos is what I'm talking about
>>
>>44983618
>>44983624
>>44983632
Very nice, overall feeling is very crisp, I like the way you're doing your Space Wolves.
>>
>>44984591
Thanks. I was going for a crisp and gritty feel. So it's nice to see that it's getting across.
>>
>>44984523
That's the one, thank you very much.
>>
>>44984526
What happens there? I've not read Pharos yet
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>>44984703
Local Ultramarines ruins everything.
>>
Am I the only one who completely ignores BL?
>>
>>44983735

Rhinos

Vanilla land raider

Predators

Bikes

Landspeeders

Drop pods

Scouts
>>
Why is pic related so perfect?
>>
>>44984526
He was 100% justified.
>get propped as a figurehead while the Lion and Girlyman do all the work
>Lion is off doing god knows what and leaves Pharos open to attack
>Girlyman immediately rushes off to its defense even though he's got Curze on his planet
>Curze maims Azkaellon and kills several squads of your Sanguinary Guard
>somehow supposed to be chill
>>
>>44985572
It speaks to the Ork in all of us I suppose.
It's a little derpy in a cute way, but it's also a whole load of Dakka.
>>
>>44983332
I think the stupidest thing they did was him abandoning Terra's walls to attempt to "rip out Horus' throat."
>>
>>44985616
The regular Contemptor is still great, and the Leviathan is also nice. Don't understand the Battle Bunnies caption under the pictures though.
>>
>>44985544
Vindicators, Raven Guard marines, basilisks/medusae.

>>44985572
I have no clue mate. The duckbill chest makes it look ugly. Without upgrades it is comparable in price to a Mortis Contemptor with Kheres Assault cannons and I don't see how it can ever be considered more than a sidegrade at best.
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>>44985572
The gun is good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfuK_KJTRyg
>>
>>44983332
I have just decided that anything BL puts out since the mid 2000's is non canon.
>>
Anybody ever buy off of All4wargames? I'm looking for someone to vouch for them before I give them my money.
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>>44985727
That looked like something a Khorne cult would experience.
>>
>>44985849
Looks like they are recasters (web and event exclusive models should be hard to come by, and usually aren't for general sale), but I have no experience with them.
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>>44985889
>recasters
Of this I am presently aware. They seem better than your average chinaman though.
>>
>>44981249
Remove Nex. He's a Moritat that only answers to Corax and no one works with him or under him.

Shades are tricky. They're darker than black, even within the Legion.
>>
>>44978193
I want a RoW focusing on the returning Nomad Predation Fleets of the XIX.
>>
>>44985849
No personal experience but I've heard they resell chinese recasts and are less trustworthy.
>>
>>44985544
>>44985725
So for the most part the vehicles are 30k compatible i see.
Thanks mates.
>>
>>44983332
Honestly I stopped reading the HH heresy series, the only books I read are thr forge worlds now.
>>
>>44985611
Kek he could have killed curze for killing his sons but he let him walk away with a pat on his back
How many billions died because sangui didn't kill curze?
>>
>>44986495
Splitting storylines between limited edition anthologies and limited edition shorts and audio shorts doesn't help
The space wolves after prospero story is the worst I still don't get what happened exactly and the suddenly russ is on terra
>>
How many Castellax automatas is a good number for a Legion Praevian? And are there any good conversions or alternatives for some more Marine style Castellax?
>>
So I'm fluffing out my Night Lords company and Praetor and I'm wondering if I shouldn't make them loyalists.

Here's what I like about the VIIIth Legion:
Midnight blue and bronze paint scheme.
Legion symbol looks good, especially in profile on vehicles.
All the Batman meets Judge Dredd, bringers of justice, "We've come for you" stuff.
Infiltrating, jump packs, night fighting and drop pods.

What I don't like:
All the scraps of flayed skin that come on every NL specific model.
The flaying pits and the murder and torture for its own sake.
too much edge

My Praetor is going to have a personality somewhat like Stannis Baratheon. He holds unflinchingly to the law and delivers punishment for every offense. He has an iron will and is the type to break before he will bend.

As I got to thinking about it I realized that this dude would probably rather go after traitors and oathbreakers than follow Curze on a team-killing murder-quest like Istvaan V. I just wonder if this is too special snowflake.
>>
>about to graduate college
>I know I'll get ripoff Solar Auxilia to celebrate
>go to recaster friends recommend
>makes every single bit for SA
>except the lasrifle guys
>also it's still not February 6
Which forge of copyright infringement makes the best lasrifle guys? Just need the name, I will figure out the rest personally.
>>
>>44985572
Because it's ultramarine.
>>
>>44985544
>Bikes

Don't they have Mk. 7, making them unfit for most legions? Shouldn't you use the legion outrider models?
>>
>>44986648
With the release of War Without End, I'm pretty sure every limited edition story will have been released to the general public.
>>
>>44986962
The bikes are still fine, though. You could always get Chaos bike riders and remove the Chaos bits.
>>
>>44986962
What do you suggest using for attack bikes?

>Don't they have Mk. 7

That's a question of power armour not the actual vehicle.
>>
>>44983332
The BL series has basically moved into Adam Sandler movie tier for me. I'm not the least bit curious about what goes on at this point. I already know how this story ends anyway.
>>
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Mk. 7 was developed in time for the Battle of Terra, so it doesn't seem impossible for Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, and White Scars to be fielding it in defense of Terra or Luna.
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>>44988349
What's so impossible about it, if it was in use at the time?
>>
>>44988760
I think it was manufactured at Terra after the AdMech evacuated Mars.
>>
So, reading into the 40k rules and warlord traits and such, cause honestly I don't know them and I haven't played a game of 40k since 5th.

If I use Fulgrim to select the trait that lets 3 units infiltrate, does it allow a unit to infiltrate with their attached independent characters?
The 40k errata seems very strict about independent characters and infiltrate but since the unit isn't getting infiltrate until 'pregame' when warlord traits are selected and units are deployed I'm wondering I guess what the timing is. Need a minimum of 2 HQ choices to play the Emperor's Children Rite of War so I figured I'd have them infiltrate with a tactical squad each.
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>>44986853
It's the same route I'd take to justify Loyalist NLs.

Maybe try to emphasize Terran, rather than Nostraman, heritage. The original Terran XIIth Legion had an outlook on justice similar to what you described. They truly did believe what they were doing was necessary, though undesirable, course of action to take to correct undesirable circumstances.
>>
Can you take a command squad for a praetor of an allied detachment? The retinue rule looks like the warlord can only take them unless I'm reading the rule wrong.
>>
>>44986853

Every Legion had it's loyalists and traitors, the justification mentioned is as good as any for creating a loyalist NL army. Like >>44989746 said, if you put more emphasis on the Terran roots of your NL army you can easily get away with it. The proto-NL was basically a giant pile of Judge Dredd types out for justice.
They'd hate the traitors in their own Legion with a passion...
>>
>>44983510

Shit writing, shit management of the universe.
>>
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>>44986665
I like units of three. As for what a marine-styled Castellax would look like it's just a normal Castellax with a different paintjob. That's already in the books.
>>
>>44989746
You'd have to nominate the IC too. They aren't attached until they're deployed or declared reserves. At that points its too late.
>>
>>44989668
First off, you don't need 2 HQs for Maru Skara, Fulgrim + Champion is fine. Champion fulfills mandatory HQ for AoDFOC and mandatory Champion for Maru Skara and Fulgrim has Master of the Legion so he can choose RoWs.

As for infiltrating, base rulebook practically said "IC without Infiltrate can't join Unit deploying as Infiltrator", and FAQ changed it to practically say "IC without Infiltrate can't join unit deploying as Infiltrators. Also, unit without Infiltrate can't join IC deploying as Infiltrator". Ergo, both the unit and all attached ICs need Infiltrate to deploy as Infiltrators. You could still deploy a unit normally, deploy an IC as an Infiltrator, place him within unit coherency of the unit and he will join the unit before the game begins and vice versa.
Nothing changes from the Master of Ambush Warlord Trait, because Warlord Traits are generated before deployment, and Infiltrate+IC deployment restrictions start applying during deployment.

I think RAW you are FORCED to deploy as an Infiltrator if you have the Infiltrate special rule. This means that if you were to have e.g. a Praetor that was supposed to deploy in a Heavy Support slot Spartan with his retinue and you roll Master of Ambush for his Warlord Trait, he wouldn't legally be able to deploy inside it.
Praetor has Infiltrate and has to deploy last as an Infiltrator. Spartan has to be deployed normally and can't be given Infiltrate from Master of Ambush. When Praetor is deploying as an Infiltrator, he can't deploy inside the vehicle (this is the sketchy RAW part, Infiltrators can be "set up anywhere on the table" and "This includes in a building", but it doesn't say anything about transports).
Of course, you'd be a douche to insist on using this interpretation of the rules.
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>>44991629
Hmm, ok.

I do still believe I need 2 HQ's though, as the Rite description says 'additional compulsory HQ'. So you need 2 HQ's, one if which must be a Legion Champion, but neither has to be Master of the Legion when Fulgrim is around.

I was planning to use Phoenix Terminators as Legion Champions and stick 'em in big tactical squads. Now I'm all the way back to the drawing board, I guess. They can't even form a unit with Fulgrim and still infiltrate :/
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>>44991899
Oh shit, you're right. I always take Eidolon or a dickbike Praetor so I've forgotten about that part.

Why wouldn't they be able to form an infiltrating unit with Fulgrim? With Master of Ambush, Fulgrim has Infiltrate and can give it to your Champion, your other compulsory HQ and one more unit. They all then have infiltrate, and therefore can join each other during deployment as Infiltrators.
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>>44992128
Yeah I could do that, but I'd have to give both champions infiltrate and that leaves me with one 'charge' left to make only one troop unit infiltrate. It does still add up, but it's not a nice redundant/symmetrical plan.

Maybe have them go solo, or Storm Eagles, or something.
>>
>>44986578
>Kek he could have killed curze for killing his sons but he let him walk away with a pat on his back
Do you think Curze would let himself be killed and it was not a trap?
Both of them knew how they would die
>>
>>44986648
Basically they got ambushed by the AL and ten got rescued by some wandering DA, then russ made a beeline to terra.
And even then it isn't explained how exactly they crossed the ruinstorm
>>
>>44989746
>>44989863

Cool. I think this is what I'll go with.

I'll fluff it that my Captain defected during Istvaan and ambushed traitors who were hunting for survivors in the aftermath.
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>>44992780
Not wandering
They lucked out because the lion was building secret starbases and one was in the middle of the place they decided to hide from the AL
The problem is why build those bases - the emperor must have known about them maybe they were going to be exits for the new webway?
Also wolf King seems to suggest this is all on the other side of the storm
Remember caliban and fenris and prospero are in the NW of the galaxy and chondax where the scars were is in the north
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>>44991629
>I think RAW you are FORCED to deploy as an Infiltrator if you have the Infiltrate special rule

I dont think so. Night Lords Terror Squads have infiltrate, but they can also take drop pods.
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>>44993190
>The problem is why build those bases - the emperor must have known about them maybe they were going to be exits for the new webway?
there's a lot the emperor's sons kept secret from him.
Also I'm guessing the Lion might have seen what happened to the two missing legions and put them as security measures, i.e. outposts the Dark Angels could rally to if something happened to Caliban
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>>44993216
Doesn't interfere with rules. They can go in a dedicated transport just fine, and can be held in reserve. If deployed on table they must infiltrate though, and therefor I suppose can only go with a dedicated transport.
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>>44993250
Ramilles star forts wouldn't be secret from the emperor
I think my theory is better but we'll see - would these guys become Fallen and if so did chaos warp them away from their forts?
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>>44993531
>Ramilles star forts wouldn't be secret from the emperor
Lorgar built three Furious Abyss class battleships without anyone knowing, it's not that strange that the Lion would somehow accomplish it as well
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I'm trying to make a Loyalist force of Iron Warriors, but can't really think of a reason for the IW to defect, other than lingering spite from the decimation.
>>
Finally made myself read A Thousand Sons and fucking hell was it a depressing down hill ride.
>Magnus ruins things by using psyker powers
>Magnus tried to fix things with more psyker powers
>Magnus keeps making things worse
>I CAN FIX IT! I'LL JUST ADD MORE PSYKER POWERS
fucking hell
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>>44993910
>but can't really think of a reason for the IW to defect, other than lingering spite from the decimation
Read The Iron Within
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>>44993944
Basically yeah. I'm just finishing A Thousand Sons myself and I like how towards the end he realizes the magnitude of his fuckups (bargaining with Chaos to save his Legion, using psyker powers after Nikea, breaking the Golden Throne so it can't serve its true purpose anymore, breaking open the Imperial Webway) and just gives up.
>>
>>44994481
It has a spaghetti lord feel to it.
>>
Dunno if I missed a thread or two, but here's a comment I typed up in one yestarday before realising it was an kill.

>>44964183
More like "turn that frown upside down" when I discovered them a year or so ago. Their cover of Twilight of the Thunder God is cracking, and I don't normally say that about bagpipe music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYZDFm-hoUs
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What's the point of transports with a capacity higher than 25 if only one unit can be in it?
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>>44994999
Anything Superheavy can have multiple units
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>>44981249
Kaedes Nex is a Moritat, and although he's highly ranked in the sense of being above orders from most, he'd rarely be put into hard power over others. He's on the right position on the chart just about but I'd add an asterix next to his name in any case.

The Contemptor Dread could go anywhere really, depending on his age and previous ranking. Obviously lower than actual HQ choices, but a former Praetor would earn an asterix indicating respected counsel as a veteran.

Apothecaries have veteran/sergeant statlines don't they? A relatively-independent officer can be surprisingly high ranked.

I can't see any glaring errors with this, it checks out. Cool on you for thinking this stuff through, you clearly love your force.
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Is there any into on what happened to the human traitors after the Heresy? Have any (high ranking) lived to later dates through warp time fuckery, mutations, daemonhood, etc.?
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>>44995524
Unless they ascended to Daemons, I don't think so
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>>44995524
Chances are that they will probably be killed off to not leave lose ends.
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>>44995640
>mfw nearly all of the loyalist and most of the traitors will be dead by the end of the HH (ha)
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>>44995640
Lose ends of what? If traitor legions escaped to the Eyes, why not all the non-marine forces of Chaos? Army had ships too. If you have CSM in 40k to whom the Heresy just ended, why can't similar time fuckery affect non-marines?
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>>44993910
Kyr Vhalen was a loyalist probably because noone told him about the heresy
>>
Does it piss anyone else off that every legion has their own unique terminators, and the ultra fags get a rip off of the Iron Warriors ones?
>>
>>44995825
Well that's basically Guilliman for you, he cribbed ideas off of his brothers, added to them and combined them together
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>>44995870
its lazy game design
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>>44995825
Who's ripping off who, anon?
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>>44995882
nah it's fluff based, see >>44995884
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>>44993141
Idea for a minor modelling project to represent a Trophies Of Judgment - a skull mounted on a pike with a ragged sheet of parchment reading "TRAITOR". Rules for ToJ say it has to be represented on the model, it's something fun you would want to do anyway, and this is a good way for you to do it and avoid the whole flayed skins and mutilated bodies thing that you dislike about Night Lords.
>>
>>44995884
>>44995907
That may be, I just dont like it as an IW player
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>>44995767
Most likely because GW doesn't want any of BL's OC's potentially changing things up in the mainstream timeline. I remember they did something similar with the WHFB Vampire Wars books where they had the author kill of a bunch of the characters he introduced. The last book is terrible because the author had to create a contrived flow and dedicate a fairly large portion of the book to set up these characters for plot execution. They didn't tell him this ahead of time because that's just how BL roles. They also told him to crank down the plot in favour of more action because "it's Warhammer, not Intriguehammer".

If I was a writer I would probably hate working there.
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>>44995870
It's the Roman way to take cool millitary ideas and make them your own.
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>>44995978
Not only that, but you have to shoehorn all the new models they've made into whatever novel you're currently writing.
The biggest example I can think of is Vengeful Spirit, which wasn't even supposed to have knights but GW told him to include some since their codex was released around the same time
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Alphafag here, question about Destroyers.

I've loved Destroyers since I first heard of HH and began browsing FW's range, and I want to base my HH army around them.

Instinctually I wanted to go with jetpacks, but I've put a decent amount of work into my BaC Chaplain to convert him into a custom counts-as Armillus Dynat, and I was thinking of putting him in a unit of 10 Destroyers without jetpacks, making use of his fixed Hammerstrike Assault warlord trait to deepstrike in.

It's perfectly appropriate for the fluff I've got written up for this particular XXth Legion cell (who specialize in eradication and scorched earth missions, favouring proscribed weaponry), but I'm interested in the more conventional uses of Dynat on tabletop before I commit to Destroyers with or without jetpacks, because if they aren't serving as his retinue I'll probably take the packs.
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>>44995978
I don't care about BL's steel donuts, just that if there has been any non-marines from HH who have existed later in the timeline. Even if they're not from a HH novel, just mentioned in some other book or article that "yeah, that dude was totally an admiral during the HH" or something similar.
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>>44995767
With marines it's not so much time warp as resistance to chaos
Mortals would warp in the eye much faster
Most csm seem to have lived as long as the top chapter masters or a bit longer - maybe a few thousand years at the most
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>>44996059
Maj, they probably would get killed by Ahriman or Abaddon because reasons. Then everyone gets upset and think the characters are being petty shitheads.
>>
>>44993556
That was at the behest of Horus and with the help of Mars
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what ever happened to the two lost primarch? Shouldn't it be a great deal for the imperium to recover them?
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>>44996150
The Dark Angels were a secretive lot, wouldn't surprise me if they had some dirt to help them.
But now that I think of it, I remember that the Emperor mind wiped Fulgrim, Jagatai, the Lion, Horus and their legion after they conquered Molech, only for Horus to realize this after going traitor.
Could the Lion have realized this as well, and used this lacuna as a bargaining chip?
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>>44996181
They WERE recovered, but something (or rather, someONE) happened to them and they were executed.
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>>44996022
Hammer and anvil the 2nd sisters of battle novel was the worst for that as it came out with the newcron codex
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>>44996181
They were originally intended to never be expanded upon so players could make up their own legions and primarchs. So hopefully it will never be expanded upon.
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>>44996257
Nah, seeing how BL is rolling lately (the mystery of the Sanguinor being revealed, how the Emperor got his powers being revealed, what's attracting the Tyranids to our galaxy being revealed) I think that at least one of them will be revealed, with the other one remaining unrevealed so that players can still make up their Legions
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>>44996201
Read the third dark Angels book by Gav Thorpe
Lion was using a daemon - maybe unknowingly- to travel the storm and the phrasing at the end suggests that daemon scattered the Fallen due to literal interpretation of commands
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>>44993556
Especially since the Lion is actually competant, barring his OCD with being secretive.
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>>44996317
I will just stick with my policy of ignoring everything BL writes as canon.
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>>44996317
Sanguinor is still not explicit - the title yes but that's obvious as sanguinor has the fear of a sang guard maxed up plus the codex works by having troop type left page/special character right pag facing
And sang is on the page facing the guard
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>>44996317
>what's attracting the Tyranids to our galaxy being revealed
Which book is that in?
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>>44996483
Pharos
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>>44996516
God damn it
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>>44996516
>not tying everything from the original storyline to the prequel

George Lucas, Peter Jackson, Ridley Scott, and friends would like a word with you, anon.
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>>44996317
Is it the Astronomicon? I always thought it was that.
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>>44997061
Nope, it's the Pharos.
see
>>44996516
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>>44997086
I was going to write up a reaction to that, but that picture sums up my feelings perfectly.
>>
Toying around with list ideas for "competitive" 2500 point lists after reading the LVO HH event rules. Apparently a Questoris Knights list steamrolled it last year, so I figured I'd play around with Knights + allies and see where that took me:

Questoris Knight Crusade Army (Primary)

HQ
Seneschal Cerastus Knight Lancer

Troops
Scion Martial Cerastus Knight Acheron

Heavy Support
Scion Arbalester Questoris Knight Styrix

Solar Auxilia Allied Detachment

HQ
Auxilia Tank Commander [yes, they can be compulsory in an allied detachment]

Troops
Auxilia Infantry Tercio
-3x Auxilia Lasrifle Section
-3x Dracosan Armoured Transport (Armoured Ceramite, Flare Shield)

Heavy Support
Auxilia Malcador Infernus Special Weapons Tank (Amoured Ceramite, Chemical Ammunition)

The rules for the Auxilia Tank Commander say he can be mounted in a "Malcador Tank" which implies you can stick him in either one, since neither of them have that exact name. Obviously, you give him PE (Infantry) for 18" Hellstorm 2+ re-rollable AP 2 marine melting comedy gold.

Overall the list seems pretty decent, with the only weakness being a lack of heavy anti-armour outside of just charging it with a Knight.... but charging things with a Knight is pretty good anti-armour, so that doesn't seem too bad. Lots of marine melting, some anti-air, and lots of scoring with comically durable transports. A Cerastus Knight Castigator might be a better Arbalester choice over a Styrix (not least of which because then you can buy the Cerastus Knight bundle and save a ton of money), but the better range, strength and durability of the Styrix makes me lean his way.
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>>44989841
I'd say yes you can, but only if they have Master of the Legion (which Praetors do) because that allows them to take a retinue using their own same slot, notwithstanding the retinue special rule.

In Book One, the Retinue rule did not say anything about the "Warlord", special rule or otherwise. The Retinue rule specifically said that a legion Praetor could take a Command Squad. But this meant that even Primarchs or First Company Captains could not normally get Command Squads.

RAW, no-one has the Warlord special rule (models can be the Warlord or not, and may gain a Warlord Trait or not, but do not ever gain a special rule called Warlord), so that's inoperative. RAI, it could be argued that it's only intended for the Warlord, but it could equally be argued that when they say "Warlord special rule" they meant to say "Master of the Legion special rule" which lines up exactly with the Praetor's rules and also most characters who it appears they're trying to allow the possibility of attaining a Command Squad.

Might want to email Forge World if you're really concerned, but I doubt anyone would blink over it.
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>>44997268
Oh, and here's alternate variant of the allied detachment - everything else is the same, except the troops look like this:

Troops
Auxilia Infantry Tercio
-3x Veletaris Storm Section
-3x Dracosan Armoured Transport (Demolisher Cannon)

Since the cost of Flare Shield + Ceramite is exactly the same as the cost of upgrading the Lasrifle Section to Veletaris + Demolisher Cannon it works out to be exactly the same cost.

Basically, just exchange bodies for better stateline and guns, and exchange durability on the Dracosans for more firepower. Not sure which is better, as durable DTs don't count for as much in AoD when DTs aren't themselves scoring units. I think I lean more towards the first version since the two hellstorm templates already give a massive amount of anti-infantry firepower, and I'm not sure demolisher cannons are actually any more helpful than twin-linked lascannons overall especially since they're going to have to go cruising speed to move up in some turns.
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>>44995524

This triggers me. Lotara was Blonde in betrayer.
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>>44996516

This comic needs sad ABD in it as well.
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>>44997889
That's not how the "Mehmed, my son" meme works though
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>>44997424
It might just mean special characters that have a unique/fixed warlord trait in their entry.

>>44997268
I'm not sure I like the idea of truly competitive lists in 30k. I feel like most people want to go for fluffy and cool so merely a 'strong' list should suffice. That said, I think your list looks solid enough, Lots of armour and I think most Legion lists are automatically a little lacking in the anti-tank department so overloading on that could be a winning strategy. It should look good on the table too.

Makes me think I have no clue how I would deal with that sort of list, I got a Str D Bloodthirster for my Word Bearers to deal with troublesome armour assuming it'd cut through those knights like butter. Then I read the entry for knights and holy fuck I'd be lucky to even get to hit back :(
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>>44997943
ADB wanted it to be the Astronomicon and by extension Big E to be the thing that brought the Nids to the galaxy.
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>>44994999
Primarchs take up three slots (usually) but can join units. Add a First Company Captain in Terminator Armor, or a regular Centurion plus an Apothecary, then there you go, 25.

>>44995020
Not true. Was true in Apocalypse from 4th Edition, but stopped being true with 6th Edition Apocalypse.

The Thunderhawk has a special exception written directly into its rules, as will any vehicle that can take more than one unit.
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>>44998023
He also wanted blood ravens not to be TS and threw a bitchfit when Wraight made them so, so I don't think much of his opinion
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>>44997957
>I'm not sure I like the idea of truly competitive lists in 30k. I feel like most people want to go for fluffy and cool so merely a 'strong' list should suffice
That's honestly how I feel as well, although I do like to try to make any list I look at good. This was more of a thought experiment than anything else as actually building that army would cost a goddamned fortune. I've always been drawn more to Iron Hands and Mechanicum, but I wanted to look at how a Knight + Auxilia list would work since I've ignored them in the past as not being cool enough. Turns out they're actually kind of insane.

>Makes me think I have no clue how I would deal with that sort of list, I got a Str D Bloodthirster for my Word Bearers to deal with troublesome armour assuming it'd cut through those knights like butter. Then I read the entry for knights and holy fuck I'd be lucky to even get to hit back :(
Yeah, knights are no joke. I use to think the Knight-Lancer was mediocre based purely off his appearance (silly, I know) until I took a serious look at his rules, and wow is he good. Striking at +1 initiative (so I5) on the turn he charges with FIVE Str D close combat attacks after blasting out 6 S7 AP2 shots is pretty crazy, plus since he's the Seneschal he's WS5 BS5 and gets a 4++ in close combat. Even primarchs are gonna have a hard time with that (not to mention that primarchs aren't immune to stomp).
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>>44998082
Does he need a gift to be okay with it?
>To ADB, from the Blood Ravens and our Primarch Magnus the Red
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>>44997061
>Is it the Astronomicon? I always thought it was that.
So did everyone*, until just now.

*Note: everyone includes all past and present writers except Guy Haley.
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>>44997268
>acheron without scout
Do you even want to steamroll?
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>>44998227
Nah, ADB said he was outnumbered in the writing room when the point was brought up so at least someone else liked it
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>>44997424
Thanks that's what I was thinking. I also emailed FW. I just wanted to know if anyone else ran into any troubles with that rule like I have haha
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>>44998127
Well, you could go for Iron Hands with some Knights. It would be kinda fluffy I think, are you not allowed to take one as a LoW choice regardless?

That said, I'm baffled that knights have that many str D attacks on decent initiative. They're almost making Titans look impotent...
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>>44995915
That is an EXCELLENT idea! I'll put that on top of my honor guard's standard.
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>>44997957
>It might just mean special characters that have a unique/fixed warlord trait in their entry.
You may be right. I just checked, and non-Primarch special characters from Book 3 onwards with a fixed Warlord Trait do have a "Warlord" special rule. But any charactes from Book 1 or Book 2 do not (except for Erebus and Kor Phaeron who were updated in Book 5).

If that's what they intend, then RAW, they have to FAQ all non-Primarch characters from Book 1 and Book 2, and all Primarchs (if they intend for Primarchs to be able to take Command Squads).
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>>44998059
Hey there, we're on 7th edition of the WH40k rules now. You should probably read it.
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>>44998082
It's not that he didn't want it to be Thousand Sons, he just didn't want it presented so obviously.
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>>44998604
Happy to help, love shooting the shit about YOUR DUDES.
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>>44998698
Nope, he literally said that in his head canon they're not TS
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If I've got two BaC Contemptors, what's the best way to outfit them? Kheres + Fist/converted Graviton Gun on each, or is it better to do one as a Contemptor Mortis with Dual Kheres? It doesn't really matter too much because I'll only be using them for a few months until I can buy something sexier.
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>>44998541
Well, like I said I wasn't planning on actually building that list, it was more of an exercise in theorycrafting around a particular event. While the HH part of the LVO isn't as WAAC central as the rest of it it's still attracting a lot of highly competitive players and most of the lists reflect that.

The army I actually want to build is Legio Cybernetica, but since automata aren't scoring it's really hard to piece together something that works at all for half the missions in AoD. Between that and Relics not being part of the standard army list without opponent's consent - the Mechanicum Cortica Primus being one of the only reasons you take LC over standard Taghmata or Ordo Reductor - means that it's a actually a fluff-first army now and not nearly as competitive as it once was. That's not to say that it's bad or that the new toys they get aren't cool, but non-scoring, properly-priced Castellax spam isn't nearly as good as ye olde scoring, under-priced Castellax spam.

I'll be honest, though, the main reason I like LC is because the models are cool and in terms of dollars-to-points it's easily the cheapest HH army by far.

>>44998264
>scouting Scion Uhlan Knight-Acheron
That hadn't even occurred to me, but it does seem like a killer idea. I guess I'd have to make the Styrix the Scion Martial, though, and then I'd lose AA... it's not a bad idea but it is a tradeoff. The thing is almost every list there is going to have at least one Fire Raptor (if not more) so zero AA just doesn't seem like an option in that event environment. On top of that an Uhlan gets -1 to front AV, which is potentially a big deal.
>>
Legion Whirlwind Scorpious
I never see people's lists running them, reason? They look super cool, and they can rain down lots of S8 Ap3 small blasts.
And for only 115pts to boot as well.
So, why is that?
>>
Why are some HH players so anal about 100% accuracy? It's not like it's a historical wargame.
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>>44999049
>It's not like it's a historical wargame

They think it is.
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>>44999049
From the POV of the more autistic ones, it is
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>>44999002
Because you only get 1 instead of 3 like the Artillery battery. It's like why nobody bothers with Vindicators at higher point level games, doesn't maximize the Heavy Support slot.
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>>44999002
I think a lot of people skipped over the rules as soon as they saw the word "Whirlwind." They are indeed extremely good. They're even 13/12/10 meaning that an artillery tank has better side armor than a fucking Predator.

The other reason is that the Heavy Support slot is going to be very crowded in a lot of Legion lists, as most of the best toys are in that slot. Fire Raptors, Sicaran Battle Tanks, Artillery Tank Squadrons, and even some Legion-specific units all take up space in that limited 0-3 HS allotment. Combine that with restrictions that some Legions have about how many HS units they can have relative to other slots and HS becomes even more of a difficult choice. More often than not the Scorpius just gets overlooked despite its obvious merit.
>>
>>44999089
>>44999068
That's the conceit, though. That's sort of the point of HH. This huge labour of love for the setting, to feature a narrative style of gameplay, to bring the conflict and history to life. It's about the look and feel of this era of the setting's timeline.
>>
>>44999068
>>44999089
Seriously? Why? Like, it takes a special kind of autism to like historical wargames, but that's ridiculous. It's a Sci-Fi 100% fictional wargame.
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>>44999002
A (kind of) expensive model that doesn't look very cool or unique and doesn't really fit any specific legion (except artillery lovers but they need HS slots for squadrons) is my guess.
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>>44999201
Because in the 40k universe, the Horus Heresy is a historical event? Why is that so hard for you to comprehend?
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>>44999201
The idea of giving the setting the verisimilitude and authenticity of a historical wargame is appealing to many people. It's an interesting concept.

People appreciate Tolkien in many ways but one of the popular perspectives is that for him to have created such a detailed, structured, textured history for his fictional universe is a feat in and of itself, and lends a certain gravity to the overall work.

HH isn't a direct comparison but that's the sort of direction of the appeal for a lot of people. I count myself as one of them, and to approach this specific game with a more gamist kind of perspective might lead you to miss out of what a lot of people find engaging in it. But that's not a bad thing, it's just different strokes for different folks, anon.
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>>44999280
Because it never happened. If your Marines have MK7 armour, so what? It's not like you're misrepresenting the Yorkist forces at the First Battle of St Albans.
>>
>>44999294
I dunno man, 40k was never that deep to begin with. Tolkien mapped out every little detail carefully, he didn't think "Oh, that'd be cool, toss that in there" like some people (coughAndy Chamberscough).
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>>44999358
I'm sorry someone made you feel bad when you decided to bring Mk7 armour to a HH game. You really should give HH another chance.
>>
5-10 Heavy Support Squad with Lascannons.

Is it as stupid as it sounds? I kinda wanna do it because they'd be Emperor's Children Sun-Killers, but then again it's just half a sentence worth of a mention in the first book and nothing else.
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>>44999358
Shared suspension of disbelief is the cornerstone of this and most other /tg/ hobbies, anon. Maybe it's a shitty thing to do to shit on someone fudging the limits of what's appropriate for this microcosm of the setting (like a lot of MKVII for example), but it's understandable for it to be frustrating if you've taken the time to enhance your immersion and enjoyment by trying to replicate the setting you're trying to explore as best you can with your own army and associated projects. Obviously the answer is don't be an asshole and do the best you can to enjoy your hobby your way, just trying to illuminate you as to our perspective.
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>>44999429
I never actually gave HH a chance, and if I did I'd probably use Betrayal at Calth. It just surprises me that some people can be so touchy about fictional events. It's like the nerdy stereotypes you see on TV.
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>>44995067
Apothecaries are A1 LD8, not veterans.

The contemptor's placement here was assuming he was a Centurion before internment. Would that affect it at all?
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>>44999467
You must be new to /tg/.
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>>44999201
I'm going to assume you have never heard of the Cold War Gone Hot community and how they are a firm part of the historical base even though that shit never happened.

A sufficiently detailed setting will have the same reaction from gamers as a real war. HH is not there yet, and already some of those details are really fucking retarded. But that is the direction Forge World wants--a comprehensive setting that attracts an eye to detail.
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>>44999515
Nah, I'm just not used to normal 40k players being like that.
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>>44999467
It's like how some people can be so touchy feely about politics or sporting events. People like to invest themselves emotionally in a bunch of random shit other people wouldn't comprehend.
>>
>>44999542
Well, yeah 40k players don't give a shit about anything. Most of all, 40k.
>>
>>44999530
Cold War Gone Hot is semi-historical tho, and knowing all the little details is important because it's something that could have actually happened. So it's more like "What if" rather than "Make this up".
>>
>>44999358
Are you just trying to get a rise out of people?
Yes, it's exactly like that, it's 40k historical. If you do not like/understand the spirit of 30k then maybe you should reconsider playing it.

You'll find most people don't actually get too upset about things as long as you and your opponents are having fun. The thing people do get upset about is the prospect of '40k grognards' seemingly coming in and fielding unpainted minmaxed armies. People that start moaning that they don't give a fuck about being fluffy don't exactly put up a good first impression.
>>
>>44999405
Oh, sure, and the quality of Tolkien's work is definitely reflective of his background and education and training and his knowledge of folklore and literature and linguistics and love of the written word allowed him to create something hugely complex and wonderful, a fully living and breathing world with as much texture as an imaginary construct can. It's at a different level than 40k.

But the attempt was made with 30k to try and explore an event in the 40k timeline in a similar way (no, I don't think FW HH is GW trying to do a feat of worldbuilding to equal Tolkien, I only brought him up in the first place as an example about verisimilitude) to how Tolkien made the timeline of his setting highly cohesive and detailed. There's precedent for a Warhammer game to do this, not only due to the presence of historical wargames, but because of the military history vibe a lot of Warhammer's fluff has taken. Hell, it's not even that much of a stretch to try and do the fluff for a tabletop wargame in the style of military history.

I guess that's the core of my argument, as well as that of several others here. The idea of doing a historical wargame in a fictional setting has a lot of appeal to certain people passionate or interested in that setting. For those people, trying to enhance the authenticity and verisimilitude of the game is probably high up in the priorities when engaging in that game.
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>>44999609
I suppose you're right, I hadn't thought about it like that, and I dunno if I ever will be able to. But, different strokes I guess.

>>44999600
>Are you just trying to get a rise out of people?
Not at all mate, just kinda confused,
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>>44999666
Hey man, I'd have a hard time giving a shit if I wasn't a really, really awful marine fanboy. I get it. And I mean, there's shit that's really just not for me. I could never do AoS, but I get why the people who play it and enjoy the setting do what they do.

Also, hail satan, those double trips.
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>>44999726
See, it's not like I don't think the concept of HH isn't cool, it's just that 40k for me has always been about making cool shit up, rather than doing it by the book, so it's kinda hard to understand and really like.

That, and the fact that Blood Angels don't have rules yet
>>
>>44999122
Great answer. Makes sense. Wasn't sure if this or a Medusa made more sense.
>>44999123
All makes sense, those 3 HS slots are so valuable.
>>44999234
Gotcha
>>
>>44999433
Tell me about the fluff on these Sun Killers, my negro.
>>
>>44999803
>That, and the fact that Blood Angels don't have rules yet
Soon. They don't get any unique dudes, but they are at least getting rules very shortly. I think you could even get away with only using the head upgrades on the normal plastic BA tactical models to make Mk. IV BA marines.
>>
>>44985572
It runs on gamer fuel
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>>44999913
That's it
>>
>>45000524
Ah. Thanks for digging for me.
>>
What do you guys think of the optional D-weapon rules? Do you use them?

As a second question, I was looking at a dreadnought chainfist for Contemptors. Am I right in thinking they strike at Ini 1? They're not supposed to, right?
>>
>>44998023

ADB's hateboner for the Emperor is making me extremely wary of his next book.
>>
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>>45001012
I know that feeling, brother. I hate it. Pic related.
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>>44998681
Huh. I stand corrected.

Well, thanks for pointing that out, I guess.
>>
>>45000930
>Am I right in thinking they strike at Ini 1?

No because walkers ignore unwieldy.
>>
>>45000930
>optional D-weapon rules
which are these
>>
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>>45001300
>>
>>45001277
Ahh, thanks. Maybe I will run some Furioso Contemptors then.
>>
>>44999405
Tolkien spent a lifetime making Middle Earth what it is. It would be very disingenuous to present the LotR and Hobbit novels as the sum total of Middle Earth.

GW has spent the equivalent time making 40k (some of the Chaos stuff predates 40k itself) a rich enough setting to be able to achieve something similar.

GW material is in no way the literary masterwork that Tolkien produced, but they're equally populist in nature (though GW's setting has occasional pop-culture references that have moved with the times, unlike Tolkien's works).
>>
>>45000930
>>45001300
>optional D-weapon rules

These were devised before 7th Edition. In many cases (i.e. other than against vehicles) they can be more devastating than the 7th Edition Destroyer rules.

Most people don't use the rules because 7th Edition more-or-less balanced D weapons appropriately (until shit other than super-heavies started getting access to them).
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>>44999609
Interestingly regarding your point, I'm actually reading another attempt by GW to do much the same thing.
>>
>>44999002
Is a Medusa or a Scoprious better?
Medusa siege gun-36" S10 Ap2 Ordnance I , Barrage, Large Blast (5") for 155pts
Scorpious Multi-Launcher- 48" S8 Ap3 Heavy 1+D3, Barrage, Small Blast (3") for 115pts.

Just getting in to 30k, and playing Word Bearers without Deamon allies. Looking for some non-LoW ways to clear out/soften large squads. Is the Ap2 really that needed?
>>
>>45003107
>Is the Ap2 really that needed?
Depends; what else do you have for dealing with Sv2+?

Because you will have to have something for dealing with Sv2+.
>>
>>45003107
The AP2 thing depends largely on what's in the rest of your army. You're practically guaranteed to be fighting against at least some form of AP2 deathstar. If you think you can deal with that already, AP2 doesn't much matter. If you can't, bring the medusas.

The scorpius is nice, but I've never much trusted small blasts. I play with a lot of people who take 2" spacing to its limits. I also don't like that you can't squad them. In this way, basilisks are quite a bit better. They're only a few more points and they really help you maximize slot utility.
>>
>>45003127
Well, playing Word Bearers so Gal Vorbak have rending and can deal with Terminators I guess.
I will likely take a Spartan, so Lascannons there, and a Sicaran too with Lascannons.
But are there many situations when 3 (on average) S8 Ap3 small blast will prove more useful than a S10 Ap2 large blast?
>>
>>44999002
I run one in my IH lists pretty much every game. Cheap and effective. You'll be able to deal with infantry, vehicles, and even knights it will kill as it ignores the shield. One of the best returns on investment I've run ever
>>
>>45003166
>I play with a lot of people who take 2" spacing to its limits.
I find this varies a lot depending on the board and terrain you play on. In dense enough terrain it becomes hard to space models out to that degree while retaining coherency. On top of that a 20-man tactical blob takes up a huge amount of the board when you start spacing them out like that, and if the army has two or three of them it can be hard to do anything coherent with the army (or find ways to get cover saves against high AP weapons).

Also, when you disembark from a transport the furthest model can only be so far from the hull. This has the side effect of grouping up a unit as they disembark more than the controlling player may desire. Since Rhinos aren't assault vehicles anyone that gets out of one has one turn of serious vulnerability to small blast barrage weapons. Use this well!

So, yes, against a canny player that has the space to do it then small blasts can prove somewhat impotent, although at least even if you miss you'll still wind up hitting something against a target that wide. In tighter spaces a large number of small blasts can prove utterly devastating and net you far more hits than a single large blast.

That said... you can do this with Rapier Quad Mortar batteries just as well. Sure, they're wounding on 3s and not 2s with ID, and sure, they're not ignoring 3+, but there's gonna be a 2+ Sgt in there somewhere, and at only 60 points each in batteries of up to three AND in the relatively uncrowded Elites slot (of which you can bring up to four!) they're definitely the obvious choice for barrage saturation.
>>
>>45001012
I dunno, I figure that the Emperor is hardly a paragon of modern morale values. You have to be kind of evil to decide that your ultimate solution is to conquer the galaxy and kill the Xenos because some of them are bad.
>>
>>45003451
In my area, I don't see many people spacing out their units like that. They are tournament players, but not as dedicated as that.
That is true with many small templates, shame I don't see many Rhinos. Mostly footsloggers or Spartan-based.

I plan to get 1 or 2 Quad Mortars, they just look to good not to use.
>>
>>44996516
Well I called it as soon as they went to the Pharos in unremembered empire and it was described like a tyranid hive ship
Cracked me up when all the carnacs said it was newcron due to being black rock and non warp
>>
>>44999123
>Fire Raptors, Sicaran Battle Tanks,

I never got the love for the fire raptor. It always seemed a bit meh to me. Sicaran isn't bad, but doesn't it have the same thing as the scorpius with only being a single tank?
>>
>>44996516
BL deciding that 40k is unironically a tragic setting is why BL is shit.
>>
>>45003454
>You have to be kind of evil to decide that your ultimate solution is to conquer the galaxy and kill the Xenos because some of them are bad.

You mean protect humanity as a species by uniting them after the Age of Strife when their empire was torn asunder and destroying hostile aliens that cannot be reasoned with or who consort with daemons?
>>
>>45005179
>BL deciding that 30k is as grimderp as 40k and loyalists are worse than traitors is why BL is shit.

FTFY
>>
>>45005196
All under one mans iron grip. Part of the source material the Emperor is based on is a 2000AD character named Toruqemada that rules humanity, fights Khaos, wants to kill all the aliens and he fancies himself a god. He also thinks he is the good guy.

This is probably not what BL is going by as of today, though.
>>
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>>45005210
It's Star Wars prequel syndrom where everyone is on idiot pills.
>>
>>45005222
>All under one mans iron grip.

You do realize this isn't his first rodeo, right? He had been many historical figures over the millennia. His goals wasn't to rule humanity, but the guide them. He took on the role of the Emperor to unite humanity, give it a good kick and then fade into obscurity, becoming just one more historical figure.

>He also thinks he is the good guy.

One man's tyrant is another man's savior.
>>
>>45005257
Yeah, Torquemada also has the backstory of being every incarnation of every tyrant and evil man through history. GW just decided to tone down the turbo evil aspect for the Emperor.

You're supposed to question the Emperor's ambitions outside of trying to save humanity. He is a part of the Imperium that was conceived as the most nightmarish goverment the writers would imagine at the time when they created 40k during a period when many British people where anti authoritarian.
>>
>>45005317
Abc warriors did a pisstake of 40k in Khronicles of Khaos
>>
>>45005317
Or am I to look at the Imperium as a failure to uphold his ideals. He didn't want religion to cloud people's minds, so of course they make a religion around him. He didn't want people to rely on psykers because of the dangers they pose, so of course you have psykers everywhere. He wanted to eliminate bad aliens, so all aliums r bad.

Imperium is not much of a fall from grace, if it was shit from the start and worse than the alternative of a fractured humanity being enslaved by Chaos and aliens. The fact that BL pushes gud aliums and reasonable human groups, even when it is in conflict with the factions themselves, and makes traitors seem like misunderstood geniuses before the idiotic masses, just so that we can really underline how bad the Imperium is in 30k, is nothing short of cheap writing.
>>
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>>45005367
>>
>>45005231
REMOVE KNIGHTS
>>
>>45005379
Tbh I think making justification of the traitor primarchs is v much a pandering to th edge lord who make up a portion of the players especially on some countries - eg Greek players who come in store with full Golden Dawn kit and SS tattoos
The racist facist edge was supposed to be satire but certain people take it as serious and to be admired
If you want an example go to 40k threads and start talking about black characters in 40k
Adb is the worst as he consciously panders to these cunts - changing fluff so all Cadians are white and despite being sent all over the imperium they are racists and see blacks as mutants and at the end of the novel they quietly shoot the black commisar
No surprise adb also pandered to the night Lord torturing people we don't like is cool crowd - whilst adding the whole daddy hate these edge lords have by shitting on Curze
>>
Imagine if you will a Horus Heresy series where BL did it differently. No daddy issues, no fedora tipping, no deals with Chaos, but I am not certain if Pharos would still exist or not.
>>
>>44999201
>Other people's idea of fun is autism
We have a theory of mind failure, folks.
>>
>>44999510
Then they're probably appropriately placed.

You could move the Dreadnought around up to just above Nex. Do as tastes good.
>>
>>45003107
You raise a valid point. However the squadability of Medusas can go some way to mediating their role.

>>45003451
Well, if you bring up rapiers then the question of Medusa vs Scorpius disappears. Rapiers beat everything.
>>
>>45005392
>ABD
Aaron Bembski-Dowden?!
>>
>>45006129
Yes. That's what we call the skinwalker that works at BL. But that's vague as everyone who isn't Abnet is a skinwalker. Dan is of course a yeti.
>>
>>45006124
In terms of general usefullness, how are Medusae v. Basilisks?
>>
>>45006146
Man, remember when ADB was the second coming of Christ to people who were into BL books?

>Dan is of course a yeti.

Not from the neck up at least.
>>
>>45006323
>Not from the neck up at least
He's a clever yeti.
>Man, remember when ADB was the second coming of Christ to people who were into BL books?
When was that?
>>
>>45003451
>uncrowded elites slot

I can't even fit what I want at 2500.
>>
>>45006660
>When was that?

Early on. Remember plenty of people sucking his dick and talking about he's great and knows the fan base and not a hack like all the rest. Not to forget how much people love to quote him on matters of canon and shit.
>>
>>45006730
Still haven't seen anything he's done as particularly bad. Certainly not even close to the shit shows of McNeil and Kyme.
>>
>>45005379
Well, in the old 2000AD comics the conclusion was that both sides of the conflict was ultimately different forms of evil because they were both insane extremists.

>>45005889
Yeah, I hate those kind people in general and I hate that some of them view the Imperium as the good guys with reasonable ideals.
>>
>>45007046
That's almost the exact opposite of the people he's talking about.
>>
>Dubs picks my Legion
>>
>>45007247
Space Wolves.
>>
>>45007247
Alpha Legion
>>
Bit of an odd question but I haven't been able to find the answer anywhere.
Do the Primarchs have all the 20 extra organs the SM have as well?
>>
>>45007247
Ultramarines.
>>
>>45007247
Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus
>>
>>45007288
the wolves have it
>>
>>45007247
Legion II.
>>
>>45007339
>>45007288
Jokes on you it was Alpha Legion in disguise the whole time
>>
>>45007281
No. The primarchs are as different from astartes as astartes are to humans, if not much more so.
>>
>>45007281
Nah, if you take BL as canon there's a bit in False Gods I think where Horus is lying injured and the apothecaries are totally stumped by his physiology.
>>
>>45007247

Word Bearers
>>
Can terminators take both a Heavy Flamer and a Chainfist on the same guy?
>>
>>45008037
yup
>>
>>45007288
Wew what a relief. I was terrified of getting a cuck legion like the Fists or the Iron Warriors.
>>
Greetings Sons of the Red Angel!

What is your World Eaters Secret Tech in your games?

Mine is a talon of 3 Grav Gun normal Dreadnaughts, everyone sees them and thinks they are just fluffy combat machines... until their spartan gets in range.
>>
>>45008419
Yeah, that's nice. But what's so secret and surprising about it?
>>
>>45008207
>cuck
>>>/pol/
>>
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>>45005231
>expected to be released very soon after the event.
Preorder soon?
>>
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>>45008207
Paint them Luna wolves, for best legion.
>>
>>45008656
Probably the Friday after the Weekender.
>>
>>45008736
I thought Space Wolves didn't have successor chapters.
>>
>>45009044
Gr8 b8 m8
>>
>>45006773
>Certainly not even close to the shit shows of McNeil and Kyme.
You mean Scanlon and Leightner, right?
>>
>>44984703

>"The beast awakens. It hungers."

Pharos' epilogue gave me a giant diamond boner.
>>
>>45008419
>What is your World Eaters Secret Tech in your games?
Chainaxe. Sanguis Extremis.

>>45008736
Paint them Sons, give them Luna Wolves marking.
>>
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>>45008736

Am I right in thinking that the Sons of Horus only existed 3-4 years before the outbreak of the Heresy? And that Ullanor led almost immediately to Davin, which in turn led to Isstvan?

Because fuck's sake if so. The whole shift from white wolf and clean plate, to sea green operators, to rune-marked and topknot brutalists, only happened over a few short years?
It's kinda hard to believe that the Sons fell as quickly as they did, even before Davin took place.
Headcanon would have Ullanor something like 50-odd years earlier, to give the slide into egocentric twats a little more belief.

Maybe I'm just salty.
> XVI are best Legion anyway
>>
>>45006730

He's the only BL Author who interacts with the community in any meaningful way. He's always chiming in on stuff on Bolter and Chainsword. That's probably why he's so beloved. He feels like someone connected to the fanbase.
>>
>>45011569
Afaik they always had the topknots, the brutal fighting style, etc. Can't say I know the timeframbe but from the novels everyone seems used to the new name, leading to believe it's been a while. Or it may just be careless on the author's side.
>>
>>45011569
Afaik there is Davin
Then we have the change in colour and name
The topknots were always there just that as the lodges and antiEmperor feeling grew they were more common as cthonian gang culture resurfaced
The next major war was Auretian technocracy which took a few years - long enough for loken to be frozen out of the mournival
So about 5-7 years which isn't too long considering these are psychoindoc meatheads - it's just building on resentment already there, even amongst loyalists
>>
>>44999201
All wars are fictional anon, you should know this by now.
>>
>>45011725
Not the war on drugs.
>>
>>45013310
No, that one's just counterproductive and impossibly expensive.
>>
>>45013353
Just like the Great Crusade.
>>
>>45011569
So I'm not the only one who thinks the timeline is too short and stuffed to the brim.
It always felt kind of stupid that they managed to conquer ~90% of the galaxy in just 2 centuries, as well as Horus' fall being too short (from Wrmaster to traitor in just 4 years, while Lorgar took like a decade)
>>
>>45013638
Part of the problem with 40k too. Everything is happening in the sying days of 999M41
>>
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>>45013568
>>
>>45011639
The topknots came into use when Horus and the Cthonians made up the bulk of the Legion, though using topknots isn't exactly exclusive to them. Terran/Solar System Luna Wolves were swift and strategic in their operations, Cthonians/Sons of Horus just added an open and sadistic, tribal brutality (mirror coins, gold-dipped skulls, eponymous topknots).
>>
>>45011725
Not the Emu War
>>
>>45013638
A lot of things can happen in just a year. 4 years is not unreasonable.
>>
>>44986875
Most likely they took it down whilst the gook in question redoes them. I imagine SA are pretty popular to recast.
>>
>>45013638
>~90% of the galaxy

Imperium doesn't control 90% of the galaxy. Imperial sectors are merely scattered all across the galaxy. Everything in between is beyond their control.
>>
>>45013638
Well we have an issue with how the Heresy was developed - first off it was v fast period between Davin and terra but they found it sold lots so greed won
It was being developed by the better writers in index astartes when they did the traitor legions
But at the same time they let Merrett in charge of the heresy ccg and unfortunately he went on to get in charge of the lore
Look at librarians - same time that index astartes said Nikea was banning sorcery and emperor was cool guy who found a compromise by having pure psychic warriors
But Merrett shitfest of banning all psyk was accepted instead- so much so that in the mortarion short story he has a scene with malcador set dozens of years in the past where malcador shows Nikea already being planned and suggests they already decided to ban librarians, yet they then are used for decades
Now part of this stuff is due to plot issues - needing to keep librarians out due to not alerting to chaos - but the idea that librarians were such a major part and yet the top legion Luna wolves had none is definitely stupid
>>
>>45011639
Name one legion who doesn't have a "brutal fighting style."
>>
>>45014313
90% pro anly refers to 90% of humanity being united.
>>
>>45014350
Thousand Sons, Emperor's Children, Ultramarines, etc. Of course we are talking about war here so brutality is always in order but it wasn't something every Legion was known for.
>>
>>45014350
Smurfs, raven guard, fists, salamanders, thousand sons. It depends on what you mean by brutal, if in your books 'efficient soldiers' is synonymous with 'brutal fighting style' then all of the legions have a brutal fighting style.
>>
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>>45014131
Somewhere in the galaxy was a race of Emu people who made peace with the Emperor and waged war on a kingdom of Cassowary people. I just know it. Big E knows what Emus are capable of.
>>45014339
The lore change involving the distinction between psychic powers and sorcery has a hand in this.
>>
>>44986875

http://www.all4wargames.com/product/solar-auxilia-lasrifle-section/
>>
>>45014350
Alpha Legion, Ultramarines, Thousand Sons
>>
>>45007046
>I hate that some of them view the Imperium as the good guys
>acting to help delay extinction of the human race should be considered a hate crime

Treehugger detected.
>>
>>44995825
We don't.

Neither do Word-Bearers, Raven Guard and less-strictly speaking Imperial Fists.
>>
>>45014995
They way the Imperium functions in 40k basically ruins mankinds ability to make any meaningful advances that will save it from extinction. The AdMech is never gonna get its shit together and humanity will never overcome Chaos because the Imperium basically keeps Chaos running with all the crazy emotions they pour into the Warp.
>>
There's nothing wrong with me having mixed and matched armour pieces right?
I bought Betrayal at Calth a a few upgrade pack and am thinking of splitting them throught my army rather than upgrading each and every Marine.
I'm doing Iron Warriors, and I bought Iorn Hands Helmets, Death Guard Torsos, and Mk. 3 IW Pauldrons and a set of IW heads. Because the IW Torsos look like complete ass.
>>
>>45015184
Nothing wrong with mixing armor marks at all. Just don't put mark two helmets on a mark eight torso, it looks awful.
>>
>>45015169
RG have Deliverers as their unique termis
>>
>>45016202
I think the dude meant rules wise.
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